AMD, Intel and Nvidia driver issues and last recommended version

[nevcairiel]

Price/performance always goes off the rail at the top end. Part of that is that making that big of a chip with everything functioning is just more expensive then a cut-down one, part is the memory, and last part is indeed the premium tax for having the best available.
Compared to last gens Titan, it is however almost "affordable".

[chros]

How can it be overpriced if there is zero competition? It's priced to sell and sell it will.
Like the RX20 cards, right? :) I understand your point, there a lot of new features in them.
I meant compared to 3070/3080.

How do you do 1080p -> 4k like this with madvr (NGU Sharp)?
There's no option for "always" at quadrupling sections, only at doubling section, so it only doubles it.
And you forgot to reply to this one :)

[NikosD]

2080 Ti had a ridiculous price of 1200$ when it was released a 70% more than 2080 with just a 35% more performance at 4K.

Now 3090 which is the card above 3080 has a 1500$ price tag which is more than 110% than 3080 with even less performance difference of around 20% ?

So the 35% performance difference had a 70% price difference for 2080/2080 Ti but now the 20% performance difference leads to 110% price difference which is unacceptable.

The only real reason for this, is that probably AMD is going to compete with 3080 but not with 3090, so this is a price from a ruthless monopoly.

And the leather-jacket-man knows it.

[huhn]

the memory is one major reason. that's a lot of useless memory for most user.
the other is the DIE is gigantic lowering yield drastically.
compared to the RTX titan (i'm pretty sure this is not the biggest card they are going to release at all) cost 2.5 as much as a 2080 ti with barely any difference in performance but tons of Vram (professional will make use of them).
it's not mean to be competitive it's just "look at what we can do".

having one very expansive card but the rest is just amazingly priced is just fine.just ignore this one card.

this is what the industry needed.
more performance per buck (this time massively).

about new features.
the 2000 series mostly added RT cores which didn't work out this well... they can't do Pathtracing at good frame rates today and they may never be able to do pathtracing with good frame rates but these cores while barely used where new.

tensor cores where already on the market before they just reused them properly and that just great.

INT32 pretty much ignored but it seems ampere has some very very cool trick up with INT32. time will tell but they where new with turing and they seem to be "gone/different" with ampere.

a very small update to the decoder and a update to the encoder.

what has the 3000.
HDMI 2.1. TV with 2.1 are out for a while now that's actually right now useful.

AV1 decoding and "massive" update to the encoder.

support for direct access to the hard drive i doubt we can use this for hardware decoder. that's quite a big thing i guess consoles have it so high chance to be generally useful.

reusing the old INT 32 cores as FP32 cores or something like that?

i can not give nvidia a lot of credit for HDMI 2.1 that's not a lot of "work" like RT cores so i have to agree the feature set on the 2000 series was bigger but the 3000 series has some quite nice stuff too.

[NikosD]

How do the buyers of 2080 Ti at 1200$ feel now ?

Especially the recent ones.

If you' ve bought recently a new custom 2080 Ti at 1500$ and see the 3070 with 500$ having equal performance (or a little more according to nVidia) how that makes you feel ?

Sucker.

[huhn]

bad day?

[chros]

How do the buyers of 2080 Ti at 1200$ feel now ?
:D Loosing $700 just in 1 week :D

AV1 decoding and "massive" update to the encoder.
What do you mean about the encoder part? Do you have a link? Thanks

[brazen1]

Who in there right mind would spend this much money on... wait for it... A VIDEO CARD? And to think I thought the stock market was the main thing disconnected from reality. Welcome to the new mainstreet bubble pushing the envelope. I couldn't agree more. "Suckers".

[NikosD]

Rumors of extremely limited supply of Ampere cards, almost non-existent for all remaining 2020.
The usual nVidia tricks to raise the hype with pre-orders or strategic move to see Big Navi in action ?
Ebay is flooded by used 2080 Ti cards selling below 500$
Things look ugly for customers of nVidia, once again.
Will AMD Save Our Souls regarding GPUs just like it did with CPUs ?
I'm praying for the AMD we trust.

[brazen1]

Since you guys like to impulse buy regardless of cost and feed from the hand, here's a 16TB SSD. It's only 4 grand. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/teamgroup-announces-153-tb-sata-ssd-for-client-pcs

You could boycott the thieves and cure their insanity you know. I am.

[el Filou]

Who in there right mind would spend this much money on... wait for it... A VIDEO CARD? And to think I thought the stock market was the main thing disconnected from reality. Welcome to the new mainstreet bubble pushing the envelope. I couldn't agree more. "Suckers".It's the same as people who spend tens of thousands on sports/luxury cars. Some people have the money and prefer to buy a vastly more expensive model to have a moderate improvement in quality/performance. They exist, but it's a small percentage of customers.

[ryrynz]

And you forgot to reply to this one
How do you do 1080p -> 4k like this with madvr (NGU Sharp)?
There's no option for "always" at quadrupling sections, only at doubling section, so it only doubles it.


No can do ATM, given 8K TVs are now very much a thing and the performance now afforded by the 30 series, madshi should ideally add this feature for always - supersampling quadrupling and beyond.

Re:3090
To give you an idea The 2080Ti is used by about over 850K users on steam, you could multiple this more than a few times to guess cards in the wild.
The 3090 will have hundreds of thousands of sales eventually, maybe half a million or so. Will probably go a ways to helping the more aggressive pricing of this series this time round.
This card is in part funding these price points, it needs to sell. People be making out like Nvidia going to sell a half dozen of these max [emoji14]

[SamuriHL]

I'll be honest, one of the things I was considering when I was looking at the 3090 was exactly that...supersampling 4k to 8k and downscaling it back to 4k like some of you do for 1080p->4k->1080p. I've no idea what that'd look like (and neither does anyone else because it currently can't be done) but the thought most definitely crossed my mind. Alas, given what they showed with the 3080, I'm sticking with that this round. Then I can work on getting the intel side of the house to pcie 4.0 at some point. Maybe down the road madshi can figure out how to benefit from RTX IO. LOL :D

[brazen1]

You're comparing apples to oranges. Cars come in all shapes and sizes. The majority of people in this world just desire something to get from A to Z in and could care less about all the prestige and worthless bells and whistles to show off because anything decent is unaffordable. So they pay through the nose for an 'entry' level car because it's the only low price there is. They have no choice. Even buying a used car is overpriced. Are they happy about making monthly payments for the rest of their life on something that depreciates as soon as they drive it? Yeah, I'm sure they're jumping for joy. Glitzy bling is reserved for folks who spend beyond their means and that's who are aimed at. The internet prowls for subjects. Sure, those that actually have more money than they need (or earned) exist but they aren't interested in video cards. An entry level video card, of all things, costs $500 now? LoL. How on earth will we make our Lamborghini payment this month?

[SamuriHL]

The 3070 is hardly the "entry level" video card. That honor will go to the 3060 who's price has yet to be unleashed. But I suspect that's where the "fight" will be so I wouldn't be entirely shocked to see it unleashed for 299 USD.

[nevcairiel]

Yeah a x70 model has never been entry level, thats squarely in the mainstream, but also the model of card they are likely to sell the most of.
There will be more models in the future at lower price/performance points, 3060 is definitely on the roadmap, maybe a 3050.

The prices of the established models didn't actually increase at all this generation, eventhough the performance jumped almost 80%. 3070 and 3080 have the same price as a 2070 or 2080 respectively.
The only "new" thing is the 3090 which sits somewhere between the old top-end Ti and the Titan. And you don't have to buy it if you don't want to. But even the Titan RTX had a market, and that one cost 2500 dollars - with the 3090 you get that level of performance/memory for a 1000 less as well.

There is also a good chance there will be either a 20GB 3080, or a 3080 Ti if you wanted something higher but not quite as expensive as the 3090, but those would require some patience.

And your statements that anyone that buys luxury products does it "beyond their means" is just asinine. Especially in computer hardware. IT jobs pay well around here, and those are the people that also like hardware.
Personally, I only use money I make through my hobby projects to upgrade my PC, and I can easily afford a 3090 if I want one. Which I might, baring reviews. Buying hardware every couple years isn't that much money, even if one indulges in "luxury". But then having this hardware is also what makes me part of that money, so :o Although I don't have (or need) a car, so much money saved there. City living is neat.

[VBB]

A 3060 at $299 sounds very likely. I'm actually quite happy with Nvidia's pricing this time around.

[el Filou]

You're comparing apples to oranges. Cars come in all shapes and sizes.Just like PC hardware.Sure, those that actually have more money than they need (or earned) exist but they aren't interested in video cards.How do you know that? Just like nobody "needs" an expensive car to get from A to B but there are still people who buy expensive cars, nobody "needs" a high-end graphics card but there are still people who buy them. Heck, you don't even "need" a car, you could take public transport or cycle or walk, just like I know people who game on Pentium or Celeron laptops with the lowest-end Intel iGPU and are just happy they can game. it's just how things are.

[VBB]

Or someone like me, whose madVR rig consists of a 1st gen Intel Core I7 920 and a EVGA X58 mobo from 2008 ;)

[videoh]

Things look ugly for customers of nVidia, once again. Things look very sweet and beautiful to me.

[videoh]

"Suckers". So sorry you are too poor to ride the bleeding edge, but sour grapes are unbecoming. I will pray for you.

[SamuriHL]

If I had the patience nev I'd wait for one of those higher memory 3080 or 3080 Ti. But I don't. Lol. I've not completely ruled out a 3090 yet but I see no compelling reason for one, even in this hobby, over the 3080.

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[NikosD]

Things look very sweet and beautiful to me. You can also burn your money in your fireplace instead of buying 2080 Ti or 3090.
Noone can stop you.
AMD took advantage of Intel's stagnation at 14nm and Skylake architecture since 2015 and attacked ferociously on 2017 with Zen architecture.
It took only 2 years for Zen 2 to destroy Intel for good on 07/07/2019.
What a day!
Intel is AMD's bitch since then.
nVidia made a huge mistake with Turing architecture on September of 2018.
The rasterized performance difference of 1080 Ti and 2080 was ZERO.
Now, if AMD doesn't take advantage of this huge mistake of nVidia two things could be true:
1) They are somehow incompetent to build GPUs for the high-end segment which is very bad for the industry.
Radja did a big harm with Vega architecture, but in 2020 it's not a real excuse.
2) They have left the high-end most profitable segment to nVidia in order to keep the consoles and lower segments which is extremely bad for the industry because GPU cards are a duopoly (after decades of nVidia's criminal behaviour) and with 80% of discrete cards to nVidia nowadays, it's actually a covered monopoly.

I'll wait for Big Navi in order to decide for my next card and see what is really going on with AMD GPU department.

[huhn]

the fact that navi had the same price hike as the turing cards is irrelevant yes?

intel CPU sales are not really going down at the moments it's the prices they reduced they are still an option and sometimes they even have the better product.

[chros]

You can also burn your money in your fireplace instead of buying 2080 Ti or 3090.
Noone can stop you.
AMD took advantage of Intel's stagnation at 14nm and Skylake architecture since 2015 and attacked ferociously on 2017 with Zen architecture.
It took only 2 years for Zen 2 to destroy Intel for good on 07/07/2019.
What a day!
Intel is AMD's bitch since then.
nVidia made a huge mistake with Turing architecture on September of 2018.
The rasterized performance difference of 1080 Ti and 2080 was ZERO.
Now, if AMD doesn't take advantage of this huge mistake of nVidia two things could be true:
1) They are somehow incompetent to build GPUs for the high-end segment which is very bad for the industry.
Radja did a big harm with Vega architecture, but in 2020 it's not a real excuse.
2) They have left the high-end most profitable segment to nVidia in order to keep the consoles and lower segments which is extremely bad for the industry because GPU cards are a duopoly (after decades of nVidia's criminal behaviour) and with 80% of discrete cards to nVidia nowadays, it's actually a covered monopoly.

I'll wait for Big Navi in order to decide for my next card and see what is really going on with AMD GPU department.
I agree with you completely.

the fact that navi had the same price hike as the turing cards is irrelevant yes?
They got greedy :) And it was a huge failure. Let's hope this year they won't make the same mistake.

intel CPU sales are not really going down at the moments it's the prices they reduced they are still an option and sometimes they even have the better product.
Not with the missing pci express 4.0 :) That's the final nail in the coffin. :D
Will they go bankrupt now? No, not now. But if they do things like this they definitely will!

[chros]

A 3060 at $299 sounds very likely. I'm actually quite happy with Nvidia's pricing this time around.
I doubt it unfortunately, more like 350/400.
If the 3080 is 30% faster than 3070, and 3070 is like 2080Ti, then probably 3060 will be like 2080 which is 30% slower than the 2080Ti.
Let's hope for the best :)

[chros]

The HDMI 2.1 bandwidth question is a valid one for sure.
Vincent states (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnRdJQMf6C0) that it's full 48 Gbps.

[SamuriHL]

Beautiful. I'm super excited to get my hands on a 3080 and see what it can do.

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[chros]

Beautiful. I'm super excited to get my hands on a 3080 and see what it can do.
:) Let us know about all your experience then!

[SamuriHL]

That I shall if I'm able to get my hands on one. They are going to be scarce until next year sometime.

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[nevcairiel]

They said that for so many launches before, and I never had issues getting the exact model I wanted without significant wait time. I wonder if such scarcity just affects some countries more then others, for reasons.

[SamuriHL]

That's entirely possible. Of course, with this pandemic still raging in quite a few countries, it's anyone's guess. Plus they're on a different Samsung 8nm process that they don't yet know what the yields are going to be. This would not be the time to screw up supply else they will end up losing sales to consoles which seems to be the point of these new cards in the first place.

I STILL want a fixed driver though. Windows has taken to continually reinstalling the latest broken driver because I bothered to install the non-studio driver this past time I fixed it. I'd prefer they just fix the damn thing so I can move forward because in a couple weeks, if I'm able to secure the card I want, I'm going to NEED a new working driver.

[chros]

Well, good luck then, you'll need it :)

[VBB]

I'll be waiting for feedback from Asmodian and the rest of the C9/CX owners over at AVS. Proper, full chroma along with banding-free 10-bit at 120Hz is my main reason to upgrade eventually. Of course, I'll also need a new TV to go with that :)

[chros]

As it seems we have to wait for couple of generations for this with LG if it will ever happen :D (I mean HDR10 issues in PC mode)

[SamuriHL]

Yea, I have very little hope of that happening like anytime soon if ever. We're on how many generations of LG OLED now and it doesn't seem to really improve all that much. But yes, having a card that's ready will be nice. I don't plan on upgrading from my C8 unless I see a massively compelling TV come out. I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that. LOL

[nevcairiel]

I still hold out hope that 2021 will be a good year for TVs, at least for those of us that didn't buy into OLED yet

[chros]

I still hold out hope that 2021 will be a good year for TVs, at least for those of us that didn't buy into OLED yet

I'm not sure Nev, I couldn't choose today either, just to mention a few issues:
- no judder free 23p playback in PC mode with Panasonic/Philips
- microstutters with HDR using normal mode on Panasonic (not with SDR)
- screwed LLDV implementation on Sony (posterization/banding in every DV content!)
- HDR10 posterization / banding using PC mode on LGs

Pick your poison :) Anyway, ask us when you want to buy, we know a lot about these sets :)

[SamuriHL]

Hey I'm open to anything that improves my PQ, so, I'm not married to OLED. It's just at the time I bought it, there was no better picture (that I could afford). Coming from plasma, OLED made the pain easier to swallow. LOL Maybe I'll go 4k short throw laser for my next display. LOL

[nevcairiel]

I'm not that overly married to PC mode, I can barely see a difference in 4:4:4 chroma on a 1080p display at that size, with 4K you get more chroma on the same size still, so maybe it'll be fine..

[QBhd]

I'm not that overly married to PC mode, I can barely see a difference in 4:4:4 chroma on a 1080p display at that size, with 4K you get more chroma on the same size still, so maybe it'll be fine..

I have long ago ditched PC mode on my C8... Banding is far, Far, FAR more of a deal breaker than the lack of 4:4:4.

QB

[SamuriHL]

Totally agree. And once I learned how to calibrate the c8 without introducing banding 444 was off the table. We'll see if these new cards do 10 bit bit that seems highly unlikely.

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[SamuriHL]

Omg as soon as I post that I see a new video claiming the did add 10 bit. Well alrighty then!

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[huhn]

who would have seen this coming after nvdiia added HDMI VRR for LG TVs and the use of a LG 8K TV as a demo that they would support LG TVs unbelievable.

[VBB]

huhn, why do you have to be sarcastic all the time? You give the rest of us Germans a bad rep ;)

As for 10-bit RGB/4:4:4 via HDMI, I'll believe it when I see it in a working driver!

[chros]

:D True.

[QBhd]

Totally agree. And once I learned how to calibrate the c8 without introducing banding 444 was off the table. We'll see if these new cards do 10 bit bit that seems highly unlikely.

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Are you saying you calibrated out the banding that is introduced by using PC mode? I can't see how that is possible...

QB

[NikosD]

No changes for the HW encoder in Ampere.
Exactly the same like Turing.

[nevcairiel]

Are you saying you calibrated out the banding that is introduced by using PC mode? I can't see how that is possible...

QB

Imagine there is a comma there:
And once I learned how to calibrate the c8 without introducing banding, 444 was off the table.

Thus, not using PC mode.

[SamuriHL]

Are you saying you calibrated out the banding that is introduced by using PC mode? I can't see how that is possible...



QBOh hell no I'm not saying that at all! I'm saying when I first got into calibration a year ago the method and software I used created some artifacts in non pc mode. No, pc mode can't be fixed.

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