AMD, Intel and Nvidia driver issues and last recommended version

[videoh]

I can speak only for myself but 1903 is fine for me.

[huhn]

1903 has heavy banding issues it's even in the known issues in the nvidia driver.

[hotripper]

So I'll just hold off then. Till we get some fix or they finally force 1903 down my throat, which I assume will happen first LOL

[ryrynz]

which I assume will happen first LOL

Nah, you got 18 months.

[Klaus1189]

For AMD users interesting:
AMD Cleanup Utility (https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/faq/gpu-601)

[jasonwc18]

Is it also the case if you delete the custom resolution in nvidia CP and create it only with CRU instead?

This is actually what I did. I used DDU to remove the uninstall the prior driver from safe mode as well as all settings (including custom resolutions), rebooted, installed the new driver, and then used madvr to generate the custom resolution (2160p23.976).

The last driver that I know works with Custom Resolution + 12 bit color is 390.65 (Jan 2018).

[SamuriHL]

https://www.neowin.net/news/nvidia-43160-whql-game-ready-driver-now-available-with-support-for-the-rtx-2080-super

Oh yey, another nVidia driver 431.60 that doesn't help us as this is a known issue:

2626510-Windows 10 May 2019 Update: Banding on some displays after OS update -> Working with Microsoft on a fix

[huhn]

that line is not new and i had this banding but the new windows preview is fine for me.

so maybe Microsoft has fixed it already.

[SamuriHL]

Not in 1903 they didn't.

[ryrynz]

Are you sure? huhn is using a preview not release build and MS don't usually release the change log at the time they make these preview builds available.

[SamuriHL]

A "preview" of what? 1903 is release. If he's talking about 19h2 I guess that's a "preview" given that it's in the slow ring....but that won't really be 1903.

[huhn]

i'm on 18941 a 20h1 preview build.

[oldpainlesskodi]

i'm on 18941 a 20h1 preview build.

Same here and no banding issues.

[ryrynz]

Hopefully means us on 1903 will get the fix next update.

[SamuriHL]

Right cause 20h1 is March next year. So if they know how to fix it then hopefully it's at least in 19h2.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[oldpainlesskodi]

Right cause 20h1 is March next year. So if they know how to fix it then hopefully it's at least in 19h2.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

If only it were that simple...lol.

Imagine the bugs reintroduced between now and then.

I'd literally handover a fistful of cash, if I could get a locked down and perfect HTPC OS and MadVr.

[SamuriHL]

Believe me, I'm a software developer myself, so I know exactly how these things go. The code for 19h2 is in one branch in MS' internal "TFS" repository (aka git repo) and the code for 20h1 is in another repo. Let's say they have the fix for this banding bug in 20h1, that doesn't AUTOMAGICALLY mean it gets ported over to the 19h2 branch. It's such a fun game to play! :D In any case, if MS knows how to fix it, and nVidia is pushing them to do so, it's LIKELY we'll see it in 19h2.

[nevcairiel]

19h2 is not actually that big of a thing. It'll basically just be a bigger monthly update, instead of a "major" update like 1903 was or 20h1 is going to be. If the fix requires infrastructure changes and cannot be backported, it'll remain in 20h1. If it can be backported, we might see it in a cumulative update even before then.

[SamuriHL]

Yea I wonder if it has to do with the WDDM stuff that's going on. I have no desire to put a preview build on my HTPC that's that far out. I guess we'll find out as I believe they're targeting 19h2, which as you said is a glorified monthly patch, for september.

[huhn]

2 reports doesn't prove that it was fixed at all we may just be lucky and we are not affected. so please don't take this as a 100 % prove that microsoft fixed and only microsoft had to change something even through it currently looks like it.

[Manni]

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4505903/windows-10-update-kb4505903

Does this fix the banding issue on 1903?

Apparently it helps but it’s not 100% fix, especially in full screen.

[Klaus1189]

New Studio Driver 431.70

[el Filou]

"What’s New
[...]
 Adds support for 30-bit color"

Edit: it's for OpenGL pro apps (finally!), not to provide the choice of 10-bit HDMI output: https://www.anandtech.com/show/14682/nvidia-siggraph-2019-nv-to-enable-30bit-opengl-support-on-geforce-cards

[huhn]

and i was just going to try it that saved me some time...

[Klaus1189]

In 430.39 3D support was dropped as claimed but it seems that this version didn't send 3D MVC correctly (https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1872531&postcount=171).
Doesn that work now?
Does HDR passthrough work on these? Does it also work in windowed mode?
Is the audio bug still existent?
Are there any other issues in the last two or three driver versions?
I am also interested in customs refresh rates, especially needed for 23p mode. Can I force 8 bit or 12 bit somehow in Custom Resolution Utility (https://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU) (CRU)

I plan buying a new card and want to know the current situation of Nvidia for HTPC usage.

[el Filou]

Which audio bug?

[Klaus1189]

https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1871010&postcount=141

[nevcairiel]

There is a million bugs that probably only one person cares about. Unless you actually run into any bug yourself, there is litereally no reason for you to care.
The only thing that might matter for someone is that 3D is dead on NVIDIA, and will remain dead. But 3D is also dead on all new TVs, so that reason is just going to slowly fade away into the nether.

[Manni]

The only thing that might matter for someone is that 3D is dead on NVIDIA, and will remain dead. But 3D is also dead on all new TVs, so that reason is just going to slowly fade away into the nether.

3D is alive and well on projectors, where it works extremely well. :)

In the meantime, 398.11 works fine for older GTX models.

I will replace my HTPC with another source before I give up on 3D. My next GPU will be AMD if nVidia doesn’t bring 3D back (and I agree it’s unlikely it will). In the meantime, my 1080ti works fine!

I can’t wait for Envy to be here so we have more of a choice regarding sources...

[nevcairiel]

3D is alive and well on projectors, where it works extremely well. :)


But its also basically "legacy". There is no 4K 3D standard, and with TVs discontinuing support, even 1080p 3D BDs will see a sharp drop in availability for new movies.

In the end, this is a dying technology.

[Manni]

But its also basically "legacy". There is no 4K 3D standard, and with TVs discontinuing support, even 1080p 3D BDs will see a sharp drop in availability for new movies.

In the end, this is a dying technology.

Why would you need a 4K 3D standard to enjoy 3D BD?

Anyway, even if they stopped producing titles (which they haven’t, at least in Europe), I have 300+ 3D BD movies that I intend to keep watching. The last projector that supports 3D will be my last projector, until it dies I guess. I’ll save lots of money when that happens: no more upgrades! Yay! :)

[huhn]

aren't most titles 2D anyway and are just run through a filter to make them 3D... not sure i would understand this as producing titles just because there filter is better then the filter in end devices.

maybe it has been confirm but what if envy doesn't support 3D? i wouldn't blame him.

just to make one thing clear removing support for 3D was an terrible move from nvidia they sold dedicated hardware that only works with nvidia cards created a brand 3D monitors which can do frame packed 1080p60 or even more. it is fine if they stop producing 3D glasses and stuff but removing driver support to make this hardware intentional useless is sadly not criminal but should be specifically for a rich company like nvidia.

[nevcairiel]

aren't most titles 2D anyway and are just run through a filter to make them 3D... not sure i would understand this as producing titles just because there filter is better then the filter in end devices.

Its not just a filter, but a half-manual conversion to 3D by video engineers (defining depth planes for different scenes, etc), but regardless the number of movies actually good in 3D is very minimal, in my experience from cinema viewing (inlcuding IMAX). Very few live action movies, everything else is animation where you get 3D for free. The industry never took 3D seriously, because it was just too expensive to produce in 3D, so its an afterthought for 99% of all (live action) movies.

[brazen1]

I don't care how studios process 3D titles or what kind of cameras were used. I'm just glad they keep releasing them one after the other while the masses tell me the format is dead because 3D TV's aren't made anymore. Imo, on my 4k display, scaled to fit, they look very, very, very, good. I have never witnessed a bad one. Not even the ones declared unwatchable due to bad post processing or some such opinion. In my experience, I'd say the vast majority were worth 3D releases. Not the other way around, but that's just my opinion. I do not replace 3D titles released in UHD. I prefer to watch a title in 3D rather than UHD. No one is going to convince me UHD achieves a richer experience especially my eyes having viewed both on true 4k 3D hardware. I understand native 1080p PJ hardware folks and their big screens might struggle to reproduce the same results and why they form their opinions. Dropping 3D driver support by nVidia feels like a spiteful kick in the ass for no good reason other than a show of power and influence. When I upgrade to 8k and retrofit my shiny new AMD card into my HTPC, I'll be thinking about that kick in the ass thingy.

[NikosD]

The fact that projectors and BD still support 3D, doesn't really change the other fact that 3D is generally dead.

The market of 3D right now is a niche, but someone with 300 BD 3D movies could possibly not care a lot regarding the future of 3D movies.

But that doesn't mean that 3D is not dead in general, because it is.

Just not for him and a few others.

[brazen1]

(34) 3D titles released last year. It was declared dead then too as it was the year before that and the year before that and the year before that...

This year 2019 (half way into it) we have another 28.

Yep, dead as a door nail. Oh yeah, in general. LoL.

[huhn]

you are aware that there are quite a lot of BD releases and i'm pretty sure there are more then 38 DVD releases compare that to the number of 3D BD sales...

so calling 3D BD dead which is pretty much loosing all of is hardware support isn't far off.

[SamuriHL]

It's why I moved my Sony x700 UHD player to my Panny plasma. I can watch my many 3D movies that way. I gave up on trying to keep a madvr enabled device on that TV unfortunately.

[NikosD]

@brazen1

You made me count BD releases only (without counting DVD releases) for the first 3 months of 2018 and I found them around 1200 from blu-ray.com

So, for the whole year 2018 could be around 5000 BD releases.

3D titles releases, you said they were 34 for the whole 2018.

So, BD 3D titles represent 0,7% of the whole BD releases for 2018.

Thank you for your argument.

3D is more dead than dead, eventually.

[Manni]

@brazen1

You made me count BD releases only (without counting DVD releases) for the first 3 months of 2018 and I found them around 1200 from blu-ray.com

So, for the whole year 2018 could be around 5000 BD releases.

3D titles releases, you said they were 34 for the whole 2018.

So, BD 3D titles represent 0,7% of the whole BD releases for 2018.

Thank you for your argument.

3D is more dead than dead, eventually.

This is a very poor argument, because even when 3D BD was alive, the number of titles was very limited too. Few titles deserve a 3D BD version, and certainly not most of the crap in those 5,000 titles a year, which is for the most part low budget kitchen sink drama. I don't want to watch these in 2D, why would I want to watch them in 3D?

I really don't get why people who clearly don't like 3D are so against it. You don't like 3D? That's fine, no one forces you to watch it. But declaring it dead is not only wrong factually (as long as there are releases, it's not "dead"), but irrelevant. For those who do enjoy 3D, there is a need to be able to play their collection.

So nVidia's move is beyond dumb. Sure, I understand that they don't want to support their pointless proprietary 3D system, but to pull the plug on MVC 3D is stupid. It doesn't cost them anything to keep support in their drivers "as is", it's always been poor anyway compared to AMD, so it's not as if they were spending lots of time on it, but at least it keeps the possibility to play 3D, even if it's considered legacy.

How many DVDs have you bought in the last 5 years? I haven't bought any, but I do want to be able to play my "dead" DVDs. It's not because they keep releasing titles in that format for those who don't care about picture quality that I don't want to play those that I have that will never be re-released on bluray. Yet no one here is suggesting to get rid of DVD support.

It's the same with DVD Audio, SACD, etc. It's not because only a small minority enjoys a small number of titles that getting rid of support for these titles would be a good idea. I don't have a single SACD or DVD Audio title that I listen to, but I wouldn't rejoyce if support for these was taken away, and I wouldn't try to alienate users of these format if they didn't feel happy about that, by telling them that these formats are "dead".

There is no way to defend nVidia's decision, especially when AMD keeps supporting 3D, which proves it's not an OS limitation.

Only the 3D haters, who feel smug because they never cared (I would guess they either can't enjoy 3D due to physiological reasons or they haven't seen it done properly on a recent projector on a large screen) can side with nVidia on that decision.

My next GPU for my HTPC will be an AMD, unless I've found a better source by then. My Oppo 203 clone is still the strongest candidate, it works great with the superb MyMovies interface on the iPad, except with 3D titles that work fine but I still have to use the Oppo's limited interface for these. 3D playback is rock stable (unless the HTPC) and spectacular, as with 2D. I only need the Envy to tonemap HDR and it can become my main player, at least for DVD, BD, and UHD BD.

There is no way the Envy won't support 3D, at least in pass-through, or it's dead in the water. There are a lot of enthusiasts who love 3D, they won't like it if putting the Envy in the video chain means no 3D anymore.

If nVidia was providing better drivers and had kept supporting 3D, I wouldn't be looking for a better source, but I'm really fed up with the poor quality of nVidia's drivers for HTPC use. Functionality is going down, not up, which proves that they don't care about that (small) segment of their market, as the kiling of 3D MVC support shows.

[jespermart]

This is a very poor argument, because even when 3D BD was alive, the number of titles was very limited too. Few titles deserve a 3D BD version, and certainly not most of the crap in those 5,000 titles a year, which is for the most part low budget kitchen sink drama. I don't want to watch these in 2D, why would I want to watch them in 3D?

I really don't get why people who clearly don't like 3D are so against it. You don't like 3D? That's fine, no one forces you to watch it. But declaring it dead is not only wrong factually (as long as there are releases, it's not "dead"), but irrelevant. For those who do enjoy 3D, there is a need to be able to play their collection.

So nVidia's move is beyond dumb. Sure, I understand that they don't want to support their pointless proprietary 3D system, but to pull the plug on MVC 3D is stupid. It doesn't cost them anything to keep support in their drivers "as is", it's always been poor anyway compared to AMD, so it's not as if they were spending lots of time on it, but at least it keeps the possibility to play 3D, even if it's considered legacy.

How many DVDs have you bought in the last 5 years? I haven't bought any, but I do want to be able to play my "dead" DVDs. It's not because they keep releasing titles in that format for those who don't care about picture quality that I don't want to play those that I have that will never be re-released on bluray. Yet no one here is suggesting to get rid of DVD support.

It's the same with DVD Audio, SACD, etc. It's not because only a small minority enjoys a small number of titles that getting rid of support for these titles would be a good idea. I don't have a single SACD or DVD Audio title that I listen to, but I wouldn't rejoyce if support for these was taken away, and I wouldn't try to alienate users of these format if they didn't feel happy about that, by telling them that these formats are "dead".

There is no way to defend nVidia's decision, especially when AMD keeps supporting 3D, which proves it's not an OS limitation.

Only the 3D haters, who feel smug because they never cared (I would guess they either can't enjoy 3D due to physiological reasons or they haven't seen it done properly on a recent projector on a large screen) can side with nVidia on that decision.

My next GPU for my HTPC will be an AMD, unless I've found a better source by then. My Oppo 203 clone is still the strongest candidate, it works great with the superb MyMovies interface on the iPad, except with 3D titles that work fine but I still have to use the Oppo's limited interface for these. 3D playback is rock stable (unless the HTPC) and spectacular, as with 2D. I only need the Envy to tonemap HDR and it can become my main player, at least for DVD, BD, and UHD BD.

There is no way the Envy won't support 3D, at least in pass-through, or it's dead in the water. There are a lot of enthusiasts who love 3D, they won't like it if putting the Envy in the video chain means no 3D anymore.

If nVidia was providing better drivers and had kept supporting 3D, I wouldn't be looking for a better source, but I'm really fed up with the poor quality of nVidia's drivers for HTPC use. Functionality is going down, not up, which proves that they don't care about that (small) segment of their market, as the kiling of 3D MVC support shows.

I also do not understand people's attitude to 3d, the only reason I can see must be that they have not seen 3d on a large canvas with a jvc projector. It is perfectly understandable that 3D is dead on TV since TV is too small to make 3D convincing, but on a proper projector setup the experience is fantastic. I prefer to watch the new movies coming in 3d in 3d instead of the 4k release simply because I find the experience in 3d far more compelling and engaging than 4k.
And I have changed my Nvidia RTX2080ti to the new AMD 5700XT because of the lagging 3d driver support from nVidia

[NikosD]

@manni

I agree in most of your post, but I've already said "a niche market"

I'm not a 3D hater, just not interested.

nVidia is very well known about its agreesive attitude against its opponents and against what it's been considered "legacy" , "old" or just not very successful by nVidia.

I'm the last one that I will defend nVidia on any of these.

But I do think that Windows XP are dead, Windows 10 32bit are dead and 3D is dead or "dead" anyway.

[huhn]

I also do not understand people's attitude to 3d, the only reason I can see must be that they have not seen 3d on a large canvas with a jvc projector. It is perfectly understandable that 3D is dead on TV since TV is too small to make 3D convincing, but on a proper projector setup the experience is fantastic.

they do it in cinemas you know the screen can be quite big...
and do you know that even a 21 zoll screen can be to big it's not size that matters it's the relative distance.

and well you know there was at least one TV released( there are much more prototypes) with 3D without the need of glasses can you claim this luxury with a projector? it's not that simple.

This is a very poor argument, because even when 3D BD was alive, the number of titles was very limited too. Few titles deserve a 3D BD version, and certainly not most of the crap in those 5,000 titles a year, which is for the most part low budget kitchen sink drama. I don't want to watch these in 2D, why would I want to watch them in 3D?

it's fine that you don't want to watch "budget kitchen sink drama" and so it is fine that people don't want 3D but deserving 3D? 3D could be done with SD broadcast with stuff that may not even come to a DVD it's not like it is super super expensive.

How many DVDs have you bought in the last 5 years? I haven't bought any, but I do want to be able to play my "dead" DVDs. It's not because they keep releasing titles in that format for those who don't care about picture quality that I don't want to play those that I have that will never be re-released on bluray. Yet no one here is suggesting to get rid of DVD support.

sorry bringing up DVD was pretty much a bait:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13974/samsung-to-cease-selling-blu-ray-players-in-the-us
that's reality do i understand it nope but i still have to live with it.
so breaking DVD support (i don't even see a way to do it) would create more angry nvidia user then removing 3D that doesn't make it right obviously.

[brazen1]

Up next...
Avengers: End Game (2019)
3D region free BluRay
1080p.3D.BluRay.AVC.DTS-HD.MA.7.1
via Nvidia driver version 416.81 using DVDFab 11.0.3.9
Sep 2, 2019

[Manni]

I only used DVD ps as an example because I’m sure pretty much everyone around here has stopped buying them a while ago, even if it’s still mom and pop’s preferred medium. Never said it was more popular than bluray overall. All disc formats are soon to be “dead”. That doesn’t mean I don’t want to be able to play them. I stocked up 3D Blurays because it’s clear they will stop at some point, and I’m doing the same with UHD Bluray, because that won’t go on forever, given that most people seem to prefer the convenience of streaming over PQ an AQ.

Still, I want to be able to play all my titles. Unless pq and aq catches up, I’ll still prefer to watch predictable, best possible quality, own ripped media than downgraded streamed content that can disappear any day as you never own it, even when you “buy” it. So yes, I’ll chose the source that allows me to play all my content, and while my 1080ti with 398.11 allows me to do that, it’s not the case of any of the nVidia RTX GPUs given that they solved the HDR metadata issue with the drivers that killed 3D MVC playback.

They could at least have given us ONE driver without a dealbreaker, but no, they just don’t care about HTPC content. So my money isn’t going to go there when I next upgrade my HTPC. That and the dropped frames without custom refresh rates just makes them unfit for purpose.

[nevcairiel]

AMD doesn't care for HTPC either (or prime media playback support in general), their media support has been appalling for years now, they just didn't accidentally break anything recently (nevermind that they still don't even have a card to match a 1080 Ti). HTPC was always a hard fight.

[huhn]

there HD3D pages already dead that there name for 3D. polaris was sold with an info about VP9 http://i.imgur.com/AaVqVKv.png to bad it's not really available how many years has it been?

i don't see anyone here that sees a problem with using 3D and stop upgrading/ buying different hardware because they use it it would be insane to me to not do that if you really want 3D. i'm simply can't hear 3D is great your setup suxx "argument" anymore.

and even through i don't want to be the guy but technically 3D BD still works in 2d so the disc is not useless at least...

and yes HTPC usage is very unimportant for NVIDIA and AMD.
if they fix HDR they mostly do that for gmaes if they fix something with decoding that mostly done for web browser use.

BTW. did someone try this: http://helixmod.blogspot.com/2017/05/3d-fix-manager.html

[huhn]

got my TV into 3D mode just running madVR with a 3d test file so there is hope madVR didn't use frmaepacked for some reason and the OS doesn't show the 3D option but my nvidia card is clearly outputting 3D and there build in test was outputting 3D too.

so guess there is hope.

[Manni]

BTW. did someone try this: http://helixmod.blogspot.com/2017/05/3d-fix-manager.html

Change Notes Version 1.69 (March 14, 2019):
New: VERY IMPORTANT!!! PLEASE READ!!! Added an info that Nvidia dropped 3D Vision support (future graphics drivers don't support stereo 3D any more). A dialog window informing users about this and what to do is automatically shown when starting 3D Fix Manager

Would be interesting to know what the advice is. Anyone with an RTX driver willing to try?

[Manni]

AMD doesn't care for HTPC either (or prime media playback support in general), their media support has been appalling for years now, they just didn't accidentally break anything recently (nevermind that they still don't even have a card to match a 1080 Ti). HTPC was always a hard fight.

And that's why 1) I'm not upgrading yet and 2) I can't wait to leave the HTPC platform. If no GPU manufacturer are able to deliver the goods for HTPC users, then I'm gone as soon as the Envy lands. AMD still has 3D support and as I remember, does perfect 23p without the need for custom refresh rates, unlike nVidia. They did mess video levels in their new drivers after Catalyst, and that was one of the reasons why I switched to nVidia at the time.