AMD, Intel and Nvidia driver issues and last recommended version [Archive]

Klaus1189

9th January 2019, 16:52

Welcome!

In this thread you can check for issues with graphic drivers from AMD, Intel and Nvidia.
This thread is meant for use with madVR and its compatible players like Zoom Player, PotPlayer, KMPlayer, MPC-HC and my personal favourite MPC-BE (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=165890).

I had to create an external file, because the first two posts are limited and had no more space for new driver releases.

View PDF (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gQZLfJ0w5KT7tBHCKZASSVU8vTnyPe2n/view?usp=sharing)

But hey, maybe some Driver Dev may stumble over my thread here, please read this:

AMD
Known limitations of Radeon RX 5000 and 6000 GPUs (older generations are fine):
• Hardware deinterlacing is broken in every driver version -> It is poor quality when applied to
interlaced video and it is not adaptive anymore, which is a NO-GO for HTPC usage.
You can check this issue yourself: Download this short MBAFF sample file (https://drive.google.com/file/d/12wO8NJbIrfa2MD4yVaA38RrBBdziCda8/view)
The Hardware Deinterlacer should be aware that the characters above "WWW.D88.COM" are progressive and should not be deinterlaced, otherwise you will see flickering like in this picture (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/Indian_Head_interlace.gif)
See here (https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1928654&postcount=2155) for more details
• Color levels (full 0-255 vs. limited 16-235) are broken. That means limited 16-235 which is the standard range for videos are interpreted as 0-255 and this leads to elevated blacks and dimm whites.
This issue can be best seen on displays which want full range 0-255, like TVs in PC Mode (PC mode for full 4:4:4/RGB support, so you do not use color subsampling like 4:2:2 or 4:2:0)
Also overriding the range for test purposes in MPC-BE (video tab -> Output range) does not take effect.
Dear AMD, if any of your driver programmers read this: Please fix this fundamental video bugs. These are there since RX 5000 series launch.

I just tried the Windows default app "Movies and TV" and this app does not support frame adaptive deinterlacer at all. So best is to download MPC-BE and play the sample file. Windows default app "Movies and TV" really sucks.

Sorry Micro$oft, but with all the skilled and well paid developers you can only achieve this? This is ridiculous.

Intel
iGPU Intel UHD 770 in 12 gen CPU is broken for MPC-BE in use with EVR and EVR custom presenter. You get audio but video is black.
To "solve" the issue is to rename MPC-BE to MPC-HC. Are you serious Intel? Do you really think that is the way of fixing bugs? That is ridiculous for the well paid developers of Intel!
See here for details:
https://sourceforge.net/p/mpcbe/tickets/912/

Nvidia
I am really impressed of what you have done to fix all the HTPC issues of the last 3 years, but I think a little more tweaking of the 23.976 Hz (called 23 Hz, but not 24 Hz!) to get more than 10 hours of no framedrop/repeat like AMD would be nice. I know you can do that.

Klaus1189

9th January 2019, 16:53

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=176013

chros

9th January 2019, 16:58

This old one for nvidia works fine for sure: v385.28

Charky

12th January 2019, 08:37

Klaus1189

12th January 2019, 13:04

Do you need Fullscreen Exclusive Mode for NV HDR switching? Does it also work with windowed mode?

Warner306

12th January 2019, 14:14

Maybe you should highlight the ones that pass HDR correctly in green or some other color?

Klaus1189

12th January 2019, 17:46

good idea

Klaus1189

16th January 2019, 17:20

any info about 417.71 from 2019.01.15?

Warner306

17th January 2019, 15:20

You might have to collect your information from the official support thread. I don't think visibility is too high for other smaller threads.

Charky

18th January 2019, 10:05

That's an excellent initiative. I've been looking for something like this for a long time since everyone seems to have an opinion on which driver version is the best, some people even using 2 yo+ drivers....

I've been using 417.35 on Win 10 1810 and haven't noticed any issues... NV HDR switches on & off fine, I created a 12bits 2160p23 custom resolution with custom timings CRU and it switches back and forth just fine.

And now I quote myself...

When I wrote that last post, I hadn't tried my Sony HW40ES projector on my new setup yet.

Turns out, I forgot newest drivers are unable to create custom resolutions suitable for this projector, even with CRU. But they work fine with my OLED LG C8 TV. Go figure...

Anyway, to create a custom res with my projector, without encountering the "the GPU driver rejected this mode, for unknown reasons" error, I used the 385.28 drivers, whick I picked randomly after reading about them in madvr main topic.

Worked like a charm.

Grimsdyke

18th January 2019, 14:12

I use my Intel-IGPU system for around 12 months now and I did not noticed any real driver-problems although I also did not specifically looked for them.
Only Full-RGB produced a too dark picture inbetween but this was fixed soon too.
Besides that the performance is so good now that I have decided to not purchase a new board now but wait for ICE LAKE hopefully early next year.

Asmodian

21st January 2019, 08:06

The current 417.71 drivers are issue free for me on a RTX 2080 Ti, Win10 1809 17763.253. HDR requires 10-bit output but both D3D11 fullscreen windowed and exclusive work well, with the GPU sending 8-bit RGB HDR to my LG C7P. I can also add a custom mode for 23.976 Hz, optimize it, and madVR will switch to it later.

chros

21st January 2019, 12:55

I can also add a custom mode for 23.976 Hz, optimize it, and madVR will switch to it later.
Will it remain there after reboot?

ashlar42

21st January 2019, 13:17

Excellent initiative! I'm still currently using a 1080p SDR screen, so there's not much that I can contribute but I'm often thinking about the nightmare I'll face when I'll upgrade to 4K HDR, driver choice included. Thanks for making that bit a little less daunting.

Charky

21st January 2019, 16:03

Will it remain there after reboot?
On my setup, same drivers, it does.

Asmodian

21st January 2019, 19:45

Will it remain there after reboot?

It does! :D

iSeries

21st January 2019, 21:18

It does! :D

Is madVR able to create the custom timing or does CRU have to be used to get 12bit?

Asmodian

22nd January 2019, 02:56

8-bit only. I don't use anything higher, my TV does not like >8-bit input. :p

iSeries

22nd January 2019, 11:48

Mine neither lol but was just curious. Thanks:-)

Oguignant

28th January 2019, 07:45

wtf, none of these works with my 1080ti + win10 1803 + LG OLED TV

Nvidia GeForce Game Ready Driver

417.71 2019-01-15 HDR passthrough OK see here
417.35 2018-12-12 HDR passthrough OK
417.22 2018-12-03
417.01 2018-11-16
416.94 2018-11-13

Oguignant

28th January 2019, 07:55

Manni

31st January 2019, 12:41

Just to report that 417.71 doesn't work in passthrough with 1080ti, at least in 4K23 12bits RGB full (custom 23p res with CRU). It sends bogus metadata. See https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1864303&postcount=54551

You might need a different table for GTX and RTX, and possibly for bit depth (8 vs 12), as drivers don't seem to behave the same.

Klaus1189

5th February 2019, 17:58

Anyone tested 418.81? Please let me also know which card, like GTX / RTX and OS version

Manni

5th February 2019, 22:36

Tested on Win 10 x64 build 1809, GTX 1080ti. HDR passthrough still broken (wrong metadata) but everything else seems to be working.

12bits at 4K23 RGB Full survives a reboot as long as it's your default refresh rate.

Klaus1189

13th February 2019, 18:20

Which latest driver version of Nvidia has working HDR passthrough for users who use that.

iSeries

13th February 2019, 19:00

Which latest driver version of Nvidia has working HDR passthrough for users who use that.

398.11 is the last working driver for HDR passthrough, anything later has the bogus metadata issue.

Should add that later drivers will switch into HDR fine, and displays will switch into HDR, however any driver later than 398.11 is sending bogus metadata to the display.

brazen1

13th February 2019, 19:18

I'm using 416.81. It switches HDR mode including at panel level (auto increases backlight, etc.) with no problems and behaves with 3D stereoscopic switching perfectly as well. This includes the resolution change bug from 2160p to 1080p and vice versa postage stamp issue many experience. I do edit the installer to use 388.59 HD Audio driver because every audio driver since has multichannel problems under certain conditions. I've tried every driver release after these and none of them passthrough HDR to all players and the audio problem persists. DVDFab Media Player v.3 to be exact. Using madVR compatible players like MPC-HC/BE were also hit and miss until using this combination. A good fallback if you don't want to edit the installer is 385.28, an older driver. The advantage to using the newer combination is frame drops that you can count in madVR's OSD. For most that do not use a reclock method of some sort, you will get a frame drop every 4.37 mins. This has always been the norm for nVidia. The improvement using this newer combo is the drops decrease to one every 13 mins or so. This improvement is only using 3D though. 2D still drops one every 4.37 mins. Many are using newer drivers and reporting no problems except they are confined to very limited use with very specific caveats. This combo is much more diverse imo.

Zetti

13th February 2019, 22:05

418.91 is released.

https://us.download.nvidia.com/Windows/418.91/418.91-win10-win8-win7-desktop-release-notes.pdf

Warner306

15th February 2019, 16:58

Maybe you should add this link next to the description for 398.11 to explain what this is the last working driver: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1865444#post1865444

Klaus1189

15th February 2019, 21:49

Thanks, added.

Klaus1189

22nd February 2019, 18:32

Is HDR passthrough (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1865444#post1865444) fixed in 419.17?

huhn

4th March 2019, 14:18

Manni

4th March 2019, 14:51

How do you set 10bits RGB out on nVidia? The only options at least here on a 4K display are 8bits and 12bits.

The display must support 12bits natively in order for 10bits content to show without banding when 12bits is selected.

Recent JVC projectors support 12bits from the input to the panels, but not many displays do. Most support only 8bits or less, a few support 10bits, very few actually support 12bits natively, even if they accept a 12bits input.

So if you send 12bits to a panel that doesn't support 12bits, or only supports a 12bits input but then dithers to the panels because they are only 10 or 8bits, then you get this minor banding you are seeing sending 12bits to your display.

Are you 100% sure that your display supports 12bits from the input to the panels, through the whole internal chain, the way recent JVC projectors do?

I don't see the point of the test if you're not asking people to test on native 12bits displays.

Manni

4th March 2019, 14:55

Is HDR passthrough (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1865444#post1865444) fixed in 419.17?

No it's not, at least not on my 1080ti

chros

4th March 2019, 15:24

can someone test WFS 10 bit for banding especially at 12 bit or even better 10 bit RGB output on nvidia?
I can test it this evening but with the old driver (v385.28) set to 12 bits (no 10bits) and madvr set to 10bits. My 1080p TV (8bit+FRC) accepts 10 bit signal, that's how I use it.

huhn

4th March 2019, 15:59

How do you set 10bits RGB out on nVidia? The only options at least here on a 4K display are 8bits and 12bits.
displayport monitors.
10 bit PC dispalys are a thing for a very very long time now.

The display must support 12bits natively in order for 10bits content to show without banding when 12bits is selected.
which display even does processing at less then 12 bit?
Recent JVC projectors support 12bits from the input to the panels, but not many displays do. Most support only 8bits or less, a few support 10bits, very few actually support 12bits natively, even if they accept a 12bits input.
not sure why this would matter or why you think that's the case.
So if you send 12bits to a panel that doesn't support 12bits, or only supports a 12bits input but then dithers to the panels because they are only 10 or 8bits, then you get this minor banding you are seeing sending 12bits to your display.
dithering will not produce banding that's the point of dithering.
Are you 100% sure that your display supports 12bits from the input to the panels, through the whole internal chain, the way recent JVC projectors do?
my TV is labelled as a 10 bit 120 HZ panel (orion if i remember corretly) i'm pretty sure it's 8 bit +HI FRC
there are no 12 bit displays even the most professional displays normal user can buy are 10 bit and i'm talking about grading displays here these often have 12 bit hardware LUT or better so sending 12 bit is clearly intended.
12 bit input support is a thing since for ever.

so even if JVC supports 12 bit presentation it doesn't matter even 8 bit can trick human eyes and measuring device to thing is 12 bit plus. and that why the only way to figure out if a end device (not a display anymore we talk about projector now) can do 12 bit is checking the part if it supports 12 bit direct input from the processor words from a manufacturer are not enough.
checking for 12 bit input doesn't tell you anything and using measuring device can't figure it out and the human eye well it'S the human eye.

if your logic of dithering 12 to 10 will create banding then madVR is the biggest banding producing program ever made by using 16/32 bit to 10 bit dithering i'm pretty sure we both can agree that'S not the case.

BTW there where devices that clearly accepted 12 bit for the panel(you can check the parts) and these devices biggest short coming was bit deep related. i'm talking about Panasonic plasmas they often support 12 bit for the panel which is pretty worthless thanks to the noise level well i guess this is faster/cheaper then dithering before which was not a huge thing back then.
I don't see the point of the test if you're not asking people to test on native 12bits displays.
as you said before nvdia doesn't like the idea of sending 10 bit using HDMI. so we do it with 12.
and as 10 bit FSE doesn't show banding but WFS for me i clearly see a problem in WFS 10 bit.

or with other word i can easily see the difference between 10 bit dithering and 10 bit no dithering which makes it very clear that my TV can show 1024 steps as a 10 bit panel would be able to do

chros

5th March 2019, 11:02

can someone test WFS 10 bit for banding especially at 12 bit or even better 10 bit RGB output on nvidia?

you can test it with this image: http://www.bealecorner.org/red/test-patterns/Gradient-16bit.png

it's not easy to do but there is a trick that will help send 12 bit RGB (a really good 1080p screen is mostly better) use MPC hc/be use WFS 10 bit with the image and and now right click.
when you right click you should see heavy banding when it switches to 8 bit output and shortly after that it should disappear and should have less banding or no banding in 8 bit WFS mode so it should have less banding then WFS 10. FSE 10 bit should show less banding too.
tested on 419.17 if this is a GPU driver bug everyone should be affected.

Good find, @huhn! I could recreate the issue. (see my signature for more details on the setup I use)
- 1080p 10 bit (8bit+FRC) TV
- nvidia v385.28 driver is set to Full range, RGB, 12 bit
- MadVR is set to:
-- "10 bit or higher"
-- "Ordered dithering" is On!

It didn't matter whether I set dithering to None or Ordered!

FSE 10 bit should show less banding too.
I couldn't really tell the difference in banding between FSE and WFS, I could clearly see it in both.

and as 10 bit FSE doesn't show banding but WFS for me i clearly see a problem in WFS 10 bit.
It does for me, see above.

Interesting thing is that using the same TV with my old laptop (optimus system, with intel driver + win8.1) I didn't have this issue with 10bit FSE.

ChaosKing

5th March 2019, 11:59

Here's also a good tool if you don't want to install too much crap which are bundled nowadays in nvidia drivers such es telemetry https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/nvcleanstall-clean-installer-for-nvidia-drivers-alpha.249085/
Remove your old driver with DDU first https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/nvcleanstall-clean-installer-for-nvidia-drivers-alpha.249085/

chros

5th March 2019, 12:46

huhn

5th March 2019, 15:13

if you see it on both FSE and WFS you should assume it is the TV.

Zetti

5th March 2019, 17:41

419.35 is released.

https://us.download.nvidia.com/Windows/419.35/419.35-win10-win8-win7-desktop-release-notes.pdf

SamuriHL

5th March 2019, 18:36

They need to fix the HDR metadata issue one of these days. Those of us that do other things besides watch movies really could use a fixed updated driver. And those poor (after spending the kind of money they did :D) RTX 20x0 owners can't really use older drivers anyway. I have not checked the latest driver to see if the metadata has been fixed. Anyone have time to do so?

VBB

5th March 2019, 18:57

I think Manni is the only one with the means to test it. Too bad Nvidia doesn't care about HTPC users whatsoever...

SamuriHL

5th March 2019, 19:12

We're certainly not a priority for them, no. Hopefully Manni will get a minute to check. I'm not super hopeful given that it's been broken for quite some time now.

Manni

5th March 2019, 19:19

We're certainly not a priority for them, no. Hopefully Manni will get a minute to check. I'm not super hopeful given that it's been broken for quite some time now.

Madshi has reported the issue to his contact at nVidia, so I'm hoping it will get fixed at some point. I'll try to test the latest version later today and I'll report back. I had recently reverted to 385.28 because of this, as I needed to run some tests in passthrough and the recent drivers are not usable for this. It should be a priority for them!

nevcairiel

5th March 2019, 19:20

Chances for non-criticial things like that to get fixed are higher in a new major driver branch then a point release. But who knows.
I still think it could help to actually tell the OS about the metadata instead of hoping the driver just ignores the OS.

If I had a device to test this, I would try to proof my idea with some code, but alas I do not, so..

SamuriHL

5th March 2019, 19:24

Tell Jim to expense you one. :D LMAO I would be very curious what the results of such a test show cause I have a feeling you could be right. I think nVidia changed this back when Windows added support for HDR. Things haven't been quite right since.

Manni

5th March 2019, 20:57

Manni

5th March 2019, 22:36

We're certainly not a priority for them, no. Hopefully Manni will get a minute to check. I'm not super hopeful given that it's been broken for quite some time now.

Okay I tested 419.35, and either there is a bug in the latest madVR build, or the new driver is even worse. It's not that it passes bogus metadata, it doesn't switch to HDR anymore :(

The OSD reports NV HDR and HDR passthrough, but the GPU isn't sending HDR, so no HDR metadata reported at all...

Back to 385.28, though I might try 397.31 to see one more time if I can get better 3D and most of everything else, but last time I tried I had to go back to 385.28 anyway.

SamuriHL

5th March 2019, 22:39

FFS they broke THAT again? I give up...thanks for testing.

VBB

5th March 2019, 22:54

@Manni Did you have madVR set to 8-bit or 10-bit/auto? With 8-bit it doesn't switch using newer drivers.

Asmodian

5th March 2019, 23:12

Manni

5th March 2019, 23:51

@Manni Did you have madVR set to 8-bit or 10-bit/auto? With 8-bit it doesn't switch using newer drivers.

Ah OK, yes I was using 8bits because there is a bug in RGB 12bits with my JVC rs2000, it forces YCC422 internally and messes up levels...

I'll try again with 12bits and will report back.

Manni

6th March 2019, 00:00

I had to restart after installing the new drivers but HDR passthrough works the same in 419.35 for me. madVR needs to send 10 bit to the driver (on startup, if I change to 8 bit while playing HDR stays active) but I don't need FSE to activate HDR on my LG C7 OLED. I cannot see what metadata is actually being sent to the TV but HDR does activate.

Edit: This is using standard v0.92.17, not any of the new HDR test builds.

Here I do need FSE to enable HDR (with nVidia CP set to 12bits and madVR set to 10bits or +), which I didn't need with former drivers (even recent), so that's a step back.

And sadly the metadata is still bogus :(

SamuriHL

6th March 2019, 00:11

And sadly the metadata is still bogus :(

Of course it is. I suspect nev is correct in that 1) we won't see this fixed until another major branch and/or 2) the way it is supposed to work has changed and the code needs to be updated to reflect that.

Manni

6th March 2019, 00:18

Of course it is. I suspect nev is correct in that 1) we won't see this fixed until another major branch and/or 2) the way it is supposed to work has changed and the code needs to be updated to reflect that.

I was not expecting it to be fixed. :)

I was not expecting it to be worse than in 419.17 though, as that version didn't need FSE. That was a disappointment.

Anyway, back to an older driver.

I'll test again at the next major branch change.

nevcairiel

6th March 2019, 01:00

I'll test again at the next major branch change.

As far as I can tell, that should be the 421 branch ready for Windows 10 19H1 (presumably in April)

Manni

6th March 2019, 01:52

As far as I can tell, that should be the 421 branch ready for Windows 10 19H1 (presumably in April)

OK thanks, I'll try that then. I'm back to 397.31 for now, as that's the first release with better 3D that doesn't need CRU to get custom refresh rates working in 12bits. Fingers crossed I won't have to go back to 385.28 and lose the better 3D...

Manni

6th March 2019, 02:27

Sadly no custom refresh rates in 12bits with 397.31, so back to 385.28, at least while I need to do tests with HDR passthrough.

Unfortunately I can't transpose my madVR custom refresh rates into CRU with the RS2000, for some reason they don't work, I think because the front porch parameter is limited to 1023 in CRU and madVR comes up with 1276, so CRU isn't an option. It used to work fine with the rs500.

Manni

8th March 2019, 13:21

@Manni Did you have madVR set to 8-bit or 10-bit/auto? With 8-bit it doesn't switch using newer drivers.

Updating my excel nVidia bug tracking Excel spreadsheet, does anyone know with which driver version (even roughly) this started?

Thanks!

j82k

8th March 2019, 13:38

The first time I noticed the "hdr only triggers when madVR is set to 10-bit" problem was with driver 417.35 as mentioned here:

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1860410#post1860410

Manni

8th March 2019, 13:46

The first time I noticed the "hdr only triggers when madVR is set to 10-bit" problem was with driver 417.35 as mentioned here:

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1860410#post1860410

OK thanks.

iSeries

8th March 2019, 14:02

Unfortunately I can't transpose my madVR custom refresh rates into CRU with the RS2000, for some reason they don't work, I think because the front porch parameter is limited to 1023 in CRU and madVR comes up with 1276, so CRU isn't an option. It used to work fine with the rs500.

You have to add a DisplayID extension block in CRU, and within that you can add a new detailed resolution with higher limits.

Manni

8th March 2019, 18:23

You have to add a DisplayID extension block in CRU, and within that you can add a new detailed resolution with higher limits.

That's interesting but I'm not sure what you mean.

In CRU (V1.3.1 on windows 10 x64), if I try to create my custom resolution in one of the slots left in the CEA-861 extension block for my display [2 detailed resolutions, 8 data block (HDMI 2.0), 1 slot left as I've already created one that doesn't work with the rs2000], I can't go above 1023 for the front porch value.

Which new extension block are you suggesting I create? Another CEA-861, or VBT-EXT? Neither allows me to create a custom res with a 1276 front porch value if I add one.

Thanks.

iSeries

8th March 2019, 18:30

That's interesting but I'm not sure what you mean.

In CRU (V1.3.1 on windows 10 x64), if I try to create my custom resolution in one of the slots left in the CEA-861 extension block for my display [2 detailed resolutions, 8 data block (HDMI 2.0), 1 slot left as I've already created one that doesn't work with the rs2000], I can't go above 1023 for the front porch value.

Which new extension block are you suggesting I create? Another CEA-861, or VBT-EXT? Neither allows me to create a custom res with a 1276 front porch value if I add one.

Thanks.

At the bottom window ('Extension blocks'), click 'add' and add a DisplayID there, and from there you can add a new detailed resolution

Manni

8th March 2019, 18:37

At the bottom window ('Extension blocks'), click 'add' and add a DisplayID there, and from there you can add a new detailed resolution

Sorry if I'm being dense, but when I click "add" at the bottom window (extension blocks), it opens a window "extension block" and the only thing I can choose is "type", which can be CEA-861 extension block, VBT-EXT Video Timings Block, or Default Extension block.

Irrespective of the option I choose, there is no option that I can see to ad a DisplayID.

I can either add detailed resolutions or data blocks if I create another CEA extension block, or detailed resolution and standard resolutions if I add a VBT-EXT block.

EDIT: by the way, I already have an active display ID. Should I change something there? I can see Vrate, Hrate and max pixel clock there.

iSeries

8th March 2019, 18:55

Sorry if I'm being dense, but when I click "add" at the bottom window (extension blocks), it opens a window "extension block" and the only thing I can choose is "type", which can be CEA-861 extension block, VBT-EXT Video Timings Block, or Default Extension block.

Irrespective of the option I choose, there is no option that I can see to ad a DisplayID.

I can either add detailed resolutions or data blocks if I create another CEA extension block, or detailed resolution and standard resolutions if I add a VBT-EXT block.

EDIT: by the way, I already have an active display ID. Should I change something there? I can see Vrate, Hrate and max pixel clock there.

That's odd. On mine, I click add, then in the 'type' dropdown I choose DisplayID, then click add, and then another box comes up where I click 'detailed resolution'. Here's what toastyx told me to do: https://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU?pid=8028#pid8028

nevcairiel

8th March 2019, 18:57

I also get a DisplayID block as the type choice. But if his EDID already has a DisplayID block, then thats probably why a new one cannot be added. Should modify that and add the detailed resolution there.
The DisplayID block takes detailed resolutions just like the CEA-861 block, but its more flexible in which values it can accept.

Manni

8th March 2019, 20:27

That's odd. On mine, I click add, then in the 'type' dropdown I choose DisplayID, then click add, and then another box comes up where I click 'detailed resolution'. Here's what toastyx told me to do: https://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU?pid=8028#pid8028

I also get a DisplayID block as the type choice. But if his EDID already has a DisplayID block, then thats probably why a new one cannot be added. Should modify that and add the detailed resolution there.
The DisplayID block takes detailed resolutions just like the CEA-861 block, but its more flexible in which values it can accept.

Thanks both.

Are you using the same version I do (V1.3.1)?

Also I tried to modify the Vrate and Hrate up to the max in my display ID, that doesn't allow me to go above 1023 for front porch.

Manni

8th March 2019, 20:42

OK I found 1.4.1 :)

nevcairiel

8th March 2019, 20:56

Apparently DisplayID support was new in 1.4, so yeah, that would explain it.

Manni

8th March 2019, 21:40

No problem, and thanks again to you and iSeries for helping to solve this.

Apologies to everyone else for the brief OT :)

Manni

9th March 2019, 12:25

Not to re-open the OT, but I was able to create a custom res with 1.4.1 that worked with the rs2000.

Unfortunately, this custom res wouldn't be selected automatically, and even when selected manually before playback, the nVidia CP would revert to the native refresh rate and the dropped frames every 4 minutes. Otherwise, I was able to select 8bits or 12bits with it, as expected.

So as I'm not using 12bits at the moment, I reset all the CRU entries and I'm using the madVR custom res, which works fine with that driver and is selected automatically/remains the default.

At least I'm able to stay with 397.93 (I couldn't find 398.07), which allows me to have the better 3D and HDR passthrough, broken with 398.11.

If you have any suggestion, please contact me by PM so as not to keep discussing this specific issue of mine in the thread, unless it's considered on topic :).

Klaus1189

9th March 2019, 12:42

No problem with the topic. It suits best here.

Maybe you meant 399.07 from 2018-08-27 instead of 398.07? There is no 398.07.

Manni

9th March 2019, 15:10

No problem with the topic. It suits best here.

Maybe you meant 399.07 from 2018-08-27 instead of 398.07? There is no 398.07.

Thanks :)

No I meant 398.07. I thought that was the last driver before 398.11, which breaks HDR passthrough.

I was only looking for it because I think Huhn mentioned it was the one he was using. Maybe he's using 399.07 and I misread or he misspelt [EDIT: I found the post, I misread/misremembered, he is using 399.07]. Either way, 399.xx isn't an option for now because HDR passthrough won't work and I need it for some testing I'm doing at the moment.

If 398.07 doesn't exist, that would explain why I can't find it :)

I don't mind using 397.93, which is the last driver I have before 398.11.

Manni

9th March 2019, 15:52

Okay one last post on the subject in case it helps someone else, thanks to iSeries who kindly PMed me, I was able to get the CRU custom res to load by default by moving the Display ID custom res to the top of the list (using the small arrows at the right of the box).

So now I have a working CRU custom res for 8bits and 12bits.

Thanks again everyone for all the help in getting CRU to work here, much appreciated :)

This will be most helpful when I can use 12bits again with the rs2000.

sat4all

10th March 2019, 00:15

Hi,

Lately i was experiencing some nasty banding when watching HDR contents using HDR output, the solution was to switch from windowed to FSE mode.
While investigating on the previous matter, i found this:
Normaly after each new driver installation i was always creating custom 23,976 resolution using CRU, toggle "use nvidia settings" in NV CP, set Full RGB 10bit for 23,24,25,29,30fps and 8bit for the rest. Now, i left nvidia CP set to "use default settings" instead of "use nvidia settings" and made madvr switching between 8 and 10bit using rules:

if (bitdepth=10) "10-bit"
else "8-bit"

So, now when watching SDR madVR use D3D11 8bit Exclusive and the NV output is 8bit, Full RGB while for HDR it use D3D11 10bit Exclusive and the gpu output: NV HDR, 12bit, Full RGB.
It's like D3D11 is controlling the output! is this known? or this is new, maybe some sort of windows update feature?
Anyway, this is great as you will have near perfect bit depth chain based on content and the 12bit output will stick arround even after an OS reboot.
Btw, i'm using 398.11 drivers but Newer drivers behave the same except sending bogus metadata.

Manni

10th March 2019, 00:53

Does 398.11 still send the correct metadata in HDR Passthrough?

Manni

10th March 2019, 02:21

I checked, 398.11 does indeed still send valid HDR metadata, but when I select HDR passthrough in HDR it selects an invalid RGB mode that the Maestro reports as “reserved”.

Unfortunately, so does 397.93.

Tomorrow I’ll try to trace when that starts, as I don’t remember seeing this with 385.28. It could be due to the fact that I was using my LG 4K monitor and the JVC wasn’t on. I’ll update if I find anything conclusive.

Manni

10th March 2019, 16:24

Just a quick update. The "reserved" RGB in passthrough happens even with 385.28, even with native res.

So I'm back to 398.11, which indeed still passes through HDR metadata, using CRU 1.4.1 and custom res.

Thanks again everyone.

chros

11th March 2019, 15:12

So I'm back to 398.11, which indeed still passes through HDR metadata, using CRU 1.4.1 and custom res.
@Manni, do/did you have the same behaivor as this (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1860337#post1860337)?
I always have to switch to 60Hz at first to madvr correctly recognise the custom 23p.
Thanks

Manni

11th March 2019, 17:48

@Manni, do/did you have the same behaivor as this (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1860337#post1860337)?
I always have to switch to 60Hz at first to madvr correctly recognise the custom 23p.
Thanks

The reporting of 24p for the custom refresh rate instead of 23p in the NCP is a known bug, but it's cosmetic only.

I set the 23p custom rate (created by CRU) as my default, and I don't have the issue you mention.

MadVR switches to 60p (or other rates) if necessary, but I mostly play 23p content and my custom rate is always selected by defaut (now that I've put the DIsplay ID custom rate at the top of the list, thanks iSeries!).

But I don't use my HTPC for gaming or anything else, and I used CRU to create the custom refresh rate, not madVR because with recent drivers madVR created custom rates don't work in 12bits (8bits is forced in the NCP).

So quite a few variables/difference from what you're doing.

ashlar42

13th March 2019, 17:41

So we're past nine months without new Nvidia drivers that correctly passthrough HDR data? Am I getting this right? Nvidia really doesn't give a damn about people with HTPC/gaming setups... :rolleyes:

grendelrt

14th March 2019, 00:11

So we're past nine months without new Nvidia drivers that correctly passthrough HDR data? Am I getting this right? Nvidia really doesn't give a damn about people with HTPC/gaming setups... :rolleyes:

Madshi had posted on the official Geforce forums he had passed it on to a dev friend at Nvidia last month. Wonder if he ever got any confirmation back.

Manni

14th March 2019, 00:13

Madshi had posted on the official Geforce forums he had passed it on to a dev friend at Nvidia last month. Wonder if he ever got any confirmation back.

Nevcairiel said earlier in the thread (https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1867867&postcount=60) that it was unlikely to be corrected before the next major branch, maybe in April.

grendelrt

14th March 2019, 00:16

Nevcairiel said above that it was unlikely to be corrected before the next major branch, maybe in April.

It does also affect gaming, so I am surprised it is taking so long to fix. Probably because most people don't pay attention to the metadata coming in (consoles don't even send any). I will cross my fingers super hard and hope they fix it :D

SamuriHL

14th March 2019, 01:39

There will be a new branch in April as it brings some pretty big changes. The end of Kepler support and no more 3D vision support.

Probably should have added a source for that rather bold statement. LOL Sorry about that.

https://www.engadget.com/2019/03/11/nvidia-ends-3d-vision-support/

huhn

14th March 2019, 05:21

don't forget that for nvidia HDR movies are pretty unimportant to say it friendly but to get HDR games to look as "good" as they want and work as good as possible.

SamuriHL

14th March 2019, 19:39

I realize us HTPC users are a small segment of their market, but, after their crypto nonsense went bust they probably shouldn't completely discount us.

chros

16th March 2019, 11:51

@Manni, do/did you have the same behaivor as this (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1860337#post1860337)?

You have to add a DisplayID extension block in CRU, and within that you can add a new detailed resolution with higher limits.

I set the 23p custom rate (created by CRU) as my default, and I don't have the issue you mention.

MadVR switches to 60p (or other rates) if necessary, but I mostly play 23p content and my custom rate is always selected by defaut (now that I've put the DIsplay ID custom rate at the top of the list, thanks iSeries!).

But I don't use my HTPC for gaming or anything else, and I used CRU to create the custom refresh rate, not madVR because with recent drivers madVR created custom rates don't work in 12bits (8bits is forced in the NCP).

Thank You, guys, CRU 1.4.1 with DisplayID also solved my above mentioned issue. That's what I did:
- wrote down the madvr timings, removed the madvr created custom resolution, then restart
- in CRU 1.4.1
-- add DisplayID to Extension blocks and set it as the 1st entry
-- set madvr timings and set Pixel clock and Native as well

It's a big help to get rid of a major annoyance, now I can set 23p as the default refresh rate of the TV :)

Couple of notes:

The difference between CRU and nvidia created (by madvr) custom timing is:
- nvidia adds a new one to the already existing ones: that can confuse applications which one to use (e.g. madvr)
- CRU replaces an existing one with the custom one on the OS level, so there won't be any confusion

When you create custom timings with madvr (http://madvr.com/crt/CustomResTutorial.html):
- always start from the default one (EDID) and pay special attention to the "sync" attributes (e.g. + , +):
-- don't select a mode that is different!
- don't deviate a lot from the default EDID values
-- remember, this approach is modifying "back porch" (horizontal and vertical values) only!
- the above 2 wrong settings can easily modify the response of the panel! (e.g. modifying gamma curve, causing black crush, etc.)
- if you get >= 10 hours after the first optimisation then it's already really good, you don't need to do more runs

Examples, original EDID timing:

EDID/CTA:
front sywi back pixels sync
hor 1276 88 296 1660 3480 5500 +
ver 8 10 72 90 2160 2250 +
picl 296.70 mhz
23.9757575757576
OSD result: 23.97791Hz (~4.41 minutes)

Result after the first optimisation run:

Custom:
front sywi back pixels sync
hor 1276 88 356 1720 3480 5560 +
ver 8 10 72 90 2160 2250 +
picl 299.94 mhz
23.9760191846523
OSD result: 23.97537Hz (~22 hours - 1 day)

About nvidia driver versions:
- some of them can block custom timings completely (doesn't matter how they were created)
- so always check in madvr OSD whether your timing is applied if you install a new driver

Btw, I still use the Display Changer II (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1863306#post1863306) util to easily manage 2 displays.

KoD

16th March 2019, 13:21

398.82 is the first driver in a very very long time where they fixed the Dolby Vision switch on LG OLEDs with firmware newer than 4.70.x. Says so in the driver release notes, and I've seen this in Mass Effect: Andromeda, this is the first driver version in a long time where DolbyVision works again. So, for some gamers, using anything older (like 398.11) is not a good choice. And 398.11 was, in fact, the previous released driver version.

As a side-note, it would be nice if madshi would enable switching on DolbyVision in the renderer for nVidia cards. The DV metadata is preserved in mp4 and mkv files, and the x265 encoder can now store DV metadata in the stream as well. There's documentation from nVidia on how to do that using the NvAPI, like in the slides from this GDC presentation: slides (http://on-demand.gputechconf.com/gtc/2017/presentation/s7394-tom-true-programming-for-high-dynamic-range.pdf), video (http://on-demand.gputechconf.com/siggraph/2017/video/sig1702-thomas-true-programming-high-dynamic-range-rendering.html). I don't know if there is a similar documented way for AMD graphic cards, except contacting Dolby and asking for their DolbyVision gaming SDK (they have a Dolby Developer site).

Btw, I recommend anyone interested to have a look at the video presentation and the slides, it is a nice overview on what is HDR, what are color spaces, tone mapping, how programmers should configure the backbuffer and the swap chains and what data to use in order to have HDR content displayed. It also shows what the rendering pipeline is in the nVidia driver (have you noticed that the nvidia driver does dithering sometimes? well, you can see here where it happens). The nVidia HDR whitepaper that can be downloaded from this page (https://developer.nvidia.com/high-dynamic-range-display-development) is also a great introduction in all this.

@Manni:
I do have one question though: have you tried to see what the HDR metadata values are when you connect a LCD monitor to your graphics card instead of your projector? Because the driver takes into account the capabilities of the display as reported by EDID. Digital cinema projectors have a max luminance of 48 nits, so that 20 nits average frame luminance value you noticed seems suitable for a projector, and might be in fact the value reported by the EDID of your projector. If that's the case, what we see might in fact be just a workaround used in the driver to avoid having the displays misbehave when presented with values outside their supported range, as the displays are supposed to tonemap themselves according to these values and their capabilities. I agree, that's not "passtrough" of the metadata though, but it might make the display device not apply any of its custom tone mapping up to that average frame luminance - so it displays the video as it was tonemapped by the source up to that luminance value - a passtrough of the source video through the display device, so to say.

j82k

16th March 2019, 13:35

I knew about the mp4 dolby vision remuxes (which work when fed directly to the TV) but I was under the impression that it wasn't possible within an mkv container.
But anyway, if DV playback could be made working with madvr that would really be amazing.

nevcairiel

16th March 2019, 13:44

MKV definitely doesn't store out-of-band Dolby Vision metadata. If its part of the video stream itself, it would work with any container, since remuxes are not supposed to take anything out.

j82k

16th March 2019, 14:12

So, theoretically could at least the DV mp4 remuxes made with mp4muxer (https://github.com/DolbyLaboratories/dlb_mp4base/tree/master/bin) be made playable from a PC with madVR?
The DV metadata is a seperate video stream within the mp4 file.
What exactly needs to happen to make this possible? Would this be LAVs or madVRs job?

SamuriHL

16th March 2019, 18:02

It'd be both. LAV needs to know how to decode it and madvr needs to know how to render it. In theory I think I saw somewhere that nVidia added preliminary Dolby Vision support to their API but I wouldn't get all excited about that. Does not mean we're anywhere even close.

chros

16th March 2019, 19:59

So I'm back to 398.11
I wanted to try out this version but I couldn't create custom resolution with it (not in madvr, not in cru), I always got ~12 minutes for 23p.
So, I'm back to 385.28, all is good, having ~13 hours for 23p (used cru).

Here's also a good tool if you don't want to install too much crap which are bundled nowadays in nvidia drivers such es telemetry https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/nvcleanstall-clean-installer-for-nvidia-drivers-alpha.249085/
Remove your old driver with DDU first

Thanks for this, I also used nvcleanstall util to install both drivers, selected Recommended option (only display/audio driver and physics were selected and MSI Afterburner works fine for underclocking/volting).

Manni

16th March 2019, 20:02

@Manni:
I do have one question though: have you tried to see what the HDR metadata values are when you connect a LCD monitor to your graphics card instead of your projector? Because the driver takes into account the capabilities of the display as reported by EDID. Digital cinema projectors have a max luminance of 48 nits, so that 20 nits average frame luminance value you noticed seems suitable for a projector, and might be in fact the value reported by the EDID of your projector.

This isn't the case for a few reasons:
1) I have an HD Fury Maestro in the chain that reports to all sources the EDID with the same full capabilities (HDR, BT2020, 600Mhz bandwidth, full sound etc) and then deals with what might need to be done to comply with different displays connected. So it doesn't matter one bit which display is actually connected. And both my rs2000 and my LG 4K monitor can take the full, unchanged content, without requiring any down-scaling or conversion.
2) This metadata isn't supposed to be changed in passthrough mode. It's not the business of the source to change the metadata, at least when playing UHD content. Remember that I get the *same* bogus metadata irrespective of the *known* metadata for each title.
3) Digital cinema projectors, especially consumer ones, are not limited to 48nits. My rs2000 can go up to 200-250nits and more depending on settings and screen. The EDID is certainly not reporting a 48nits max. Even Modern digital cinemas go above this, which is the SDR reference white. Dolby Cinema uses a peak of 107nits for example with HDR titles.

So for all these reasons (and a few others), I can confirm that the metadata sent in passthrough by the recent drivers is simply bogus. It isn't what it should be, especially when playing UHD bluray content, where the original mastering metadata should *always* be reported, as it's not the business of the source to know about the limitations of the display if it's not doing the tonemapping.

Manni

16th March 2019, 20:07

I wanted to try out this version but I couldn't create custom resolution with it (not in madvr, not in cru), I always got ~12 minutes for 23p.

Are you sure that the custom resolution is actually applied and that the display is active both in CRU and in madVR?

Otherwise it can be a limitation of your display.

Here 398.11 works just as well as any other version with CRU after our debugging group session here a few days ago.

Did you try to export your CRU config valid in 385.85 and import it in 398.11, to make sure you rule out any user error in recreating the refresh rate?

chros

17th March 2019, 11:50

Are you sure that the custom resolution is actually applied and that the display is active both in CRU and in madVR?

Here 398.11 works just as well as any other version with CRU after our debugging group session here a few days ago.

Did you try to export your CRU config valid in 385.85 and import it in 398.11, to make sure you rule out any user error in recreating the refresh rate?
Thanks Manni, I can't state that it wasn't a user error :) but since it worked straight away with v385.28 both times ...
Anyway, since there's no performance difference between the 2 driver versions and I don't use any of the affected issues (hdr passthrough, 3d, etc.), I stick with v385.28 until I change something in my system.

I also created the following custom resolutions for my BenQ GL2450HM 1080p monitor that only exposes 60Hz (in CRU with madvr's help):
1080p47, 1080p48, 1080p50, 1080p59, 1080p60

KoD

17th March 2019, 20:29

This isn't the case for a few reasons:
1) I have an HD Fury Maestro in the chain that reports to all sources the EDID with the same full capabilities (HDR, BT2020, 600Mhz bandwidth, full sound etc) and then deals with what might need to be done to comply with different displays connected. So it doesn't matter one bit which display is actually connected. And both my rs2000 and my LG 4K monitor can take the full, unchanged content, without requiring any down-scaling or conversion.
2) This metadata isn't supposed to be changed in passthrough mode. It's not the business of the source to change the metadata, at least when playing UHD content. Remember that I get the *same* bogus metadata irrespective of the *known* metadata for each title.
3) Digital cinema projectors, especially consumer ones, are not limited to 48nits. My rs2000 can go up to 200-250nits and more depending on settings and screen. The EDID is certainly not reporting a 48nits max. Even Modern digital cinemas go above this, which is the SDR reference white. Dolby Cinema uses a peak of 107nits for example with HDR titles.

So for all these reasons (and a few others), I can confirm that the metadata sent in passthrough by the recent drivers is simply bogus. It isn't what it should be, especially when playing UHD bluray content, where the original mastering metadata should *always* be reported, as it's not the business of the source to know about the limitations of the display if it's not doing the tonemapping.

I see. The 48 nits value for Digital Cinema was in the nVidia presentation, btw. I do realize that home projectors are able of more though.

Then it's either a bug, or working as intended. While initially HDR was only supported in Windows in full screen exclusive mode (and in this mode it makes sense to pass the application set min/max/avg values to the display), Microsoft then added support for windowed mode as well, both borderless and with borders. This means that one application window which was created for SDR content looks as it did before while another application window on the same display is able to display wide gamut content with high luminosity. In order to do that, the compositing engine has to work in wide gamut mode all the time, for everything in Windows.

What this means: if one of the applications tries to say "oh, my min/max/avg luminance is <this>", that's not information that should be passed to the display, because your other SDR application that you have on the screen at the same time must be rendered properly too.

It could be that Windows decides what are the min/max/avg luminance values that will be used for the tonemapping of the entire Windows desktop, and that's the value that gets reported to the display. The video player's advertised values will only be used to render the video player output properly in this shared desktop backbuffer.

Seeing it like this, the label of "passthrough" in madVR is a bit misleading, because madVR does not control what the compositing engine does. It's meaning is more like "madVR will not tonemap the material itself, and will specify for the swapchain the HDR metadata values of the stream" but then Windows decides what happens with this.

Regarding Dolby Vision, there's clearly support in the graphics drivers for sending the metadata to displays (TVs, as I don't know of any monitor supporting DV), otherwise all the games that make use of it would not work. It's possible however that the DV metadata during a gaming session is sent to the display only by means of a Dolby supplied library, for which a license is required. The code in the slides posted by me shows only how to switch the display to DV mode and how to configure it initially, it does not show how to send DV metadata while the video game is running.

Dolby has a Dolby Developer website, as I was saying. In its whitepaper found there it says the metadata and the video can be in a single stream, but there's a two stream approach as well. It also says they have DolbyVision decoders, and display managers, for PCs, mobile devices, game consoles, etc. So they clearly have a way to display this content on PCs. And if you make an account on their Dev site to access the DolbyVision FAQ, a contact is given for requesting access to the SDK and an example to try out. I would be surprised if the next CyberLink PowerDVD version that should be announced in a month or two will not have DV support.

Manni

17th March 2019, 20:43

It could be that Windows decides what are the min/max/avg luminance values that will be used for the tonemapping of the entire Windows desktop, and that's the value that gets reported to the display. The video player's advertised values will only be used to render the video player output properly in this shared desktop backbuffer.

Seeing it like this, the label of "passthrough" in madVR is a bit misleading, because madVR does not control what the compositing engine does. It's meaning is more like "madVR will not tonemap the material itself, and will specify for the swapchain the HDR metadata values of the stream" but then Windows decides what happens with this.

The point is that Windows should have no influence on the content when we're not using the OS HDR implementation. Whether in a game or madVR, as long as the nVidia HDR API is used and not the OS, there is zero reason for the OS to be involved.

Passthrough in madVR isn't misleading. If madVR isn't doing the tonemapping, it either reports to the display the original metadata (no measurements files) or the optimized metadata. You can ignore the measurements files if you want to keep them but not use them. The OS has nothing to do with this, and up until 398.11, it stays out of the process, as it should.

If it's not a bug, it's certainly not desired for the OS to interfere with the content.

If you're using the OS HDR, sure, but not if the player/game is using the NV HDR API.

I certainly hope that this bug is fixed. MS can do whatever they want with their HDR implementation, which isn't useful for a video player unless you want to convert everything to HDR. This isn't an option for projector users as you can't use the same calibration for SDR and HDR without losing a lot of performance.

By the way I went back to 397.93 because 398.11 occasionally leads my projector to detect HDR when I send SDR WCG. So for me the latest usable driver (as long as I want proper passthrough) is 397.93.

KoD

17th March 2019, 21:15

Manni

17th March 2019, 21:49

My understanding is that the manufacturer-specific APIs for HDR are to be deprecated after HDR support was made official in Windows.

What support exists will not be removed because there are games which were made before HDR support was made official in Windows by Microsoft, but I guess they don't care to properly support it anymore. The DV stuff is certainly only possible by using the graphic card manufacturer APIs, however.

This is not what Madshi has reported. He has discussed the issue with his contact at nVidia and is expecting it to be resolved.

Nevcairiel (developper of LAV) said a bit earlier in the thread that it might be fixed in the next major branch in April.

If you don't have any solid information, please refrain from posting :)

KoD

18th March 2019, 21:38

This is not what Madshi has reported. He has discussed the issue with his contact at nVidia and is expecting it to be resolved.

Nevcairiel (developper of LAV) said a bit earlier in the thread that it might be fixed in the next major branch in April.

If you don't have any solid information, please refrain from posting :)

What exactly did you find to be wrong in what I wrote, that you felt the need to tell me to refrain from posting?

I think I posted references for what I said in this thread, btw.

Manni

18th March 2019, 22:24

What exactly did you find to be wrong in what I wrote, that you felt the need to tell me to refrain from posting?

I think I posted references for what I said in this thread, btw.

You directly contradicted what two of the most influential developers (Madshi and Nevcairiel) had already stated, by suggesting that the issue with metadata passthrough might not be a bug or might even be desirable (it is a bug and it isn't desirable), and that the API support will be deprecated (it won't and the bug is expected to be fixed in the next major branch release). You also questioned the data that I've produced with the Maestro. The references you posted where not relevant for various reasons, which I explained. That's confusing and unhelpful. Have you read the thread, including the last few pages, or are you just posting randomly?

But if you want to keep posting on the subject, please go on, it's a free forum :)

nevcairiel

18th March 2019, 22:50

Actually I never stated any such thing. I actually think it would be beneficial to try to work with the OS, instead of around it.

huhn

18th March 2019, 23:21

the point is a bug like this is unlikely to be fixed in a new driver which is mostly made for some new games unlike a new branch driver.

the nvidia HDR api is unlikely to leave anytime soon unlike 3D vision none windows 10 gaming isn't dead yet and the dx12 support for win 7 clearly shows old OS still matter so the API is still needed.

SamuriHL

18th March 2019, 23:30

Actually I never stated any such thing. I actually think it would be beneficial to try to work with the OS, instead of around it.

Come on, you know you want to write some test code and send it to Manni so he can see if the metadata is being sent correctly. :P :D

Manni

19th March 2019, 00:13

Actually I never stated any such thing. I actually think it would be beneficial to try to work with the OS, instead of around it.

You didn't say in this very thread a few pages back that the HDR passthrough metadata bug with NV HDR might be fixed in the next major branch? :confused::eek::confused:

Though it is true that you said you had a preference for things to work with the OS instead of around it. That doesn't mean that the NV API bug isn't a bug, or I completely misunderstood what you said.

Come on, you know you want to write some test code and send it to Manni so he can see if the metadata is being sent correctly. :P :D

I offered to send a Vertex to Nevcairiel so that he could do all his tests but for some reason he didn't seem interested.

nevcairiel

19th March 2019, 00:30

You didn't say in this very thread a few pages back that the HDR passthrough metadata bug with NV HDR might be fixed in the next major branch? :confused::eek::confused:

What I meant to say was that IF such a fix is coming, it would be in a new major branch, and not some game-ready driver mid-branch.

I offered to send a Vertex to Nevcairiel so that he could do all his tests but for some reason he didn't seem interested.

I don't even have a HDR display currently, so that would probably be a bit fruitless.

Manni

19th March 2019, 17:13

What I meant to say was that IF such a fix is coming, it would be in a new major branch, and not some game-ready driver mid-branch.

Got it. Sorry I misunderstood / misquoted you. As madshi has already confirmed that 1) he has informed his contact at nVidia of the issue 2) that the NV API was not to be deprecated and 3) that a fix was on the way, I thought you were confirming when it was expected to be delivered.

I don't even have a HDR display currently, so that would probably be a bit fruitless.

OK. Let me know if that was to change.

Note that the Vertex is precisely meant for handling non HDR displays with HDR content. It can be configured to send the source any EDID, including telling it that the display is fully HDMI 2.0a / 600Mhz / HDR compliant. That allows you to get the source to send all the content and HDR metadata as if your display was HDR.

You can then configure the Vertex to strip the HDR metadata, so you can activate/select an SDR calibration on your non-HDR screen, as well as downconvert the output so that it fits the bandwidth limits of your screen (for example changing resolution, chroma or bit depth to fit a 300Mhz limit). It's basically an Integral and a Linker combined, with a few more things on top. The only thing it doesn't do is converting the frame rate (I used an X4 for that temporarily to drive a display that didn't support 23p, I can send it to you as well if you need that).

Yet, and that's the important part, you can still have the Vertex display in its OSD info the full incoming HDR metadata, even when it strips it so it doesn't reach your non HDR display. So you get to see exactly which HDR metadata a fully compliant HDR display would receive, even if you don't send it to your non-HDR display and downconvert/downscale the content for bandwidth or any other reason.

If this makes any difference and would allow you to run your tests, or if at any point you get a HDR display, please get in touch by PM/email, and my Vertex will be on your way (provided I still have it!). If it doesn't help, you can always send it back to me. If it helps, then you can keep it (as a gift). I'm not using it currently as it's been replaced by a Maestro.

If you don't need the decoded HDR metadata info on the OSD, I can send you my Integral (splitter) or my Linker (scaler). They give you the HDR infoframe in the GUI on a PC but they don't decode it (it's the raw data), so it's more time consuming for me to translate it, but it might suit a developper better! I also don't use them at the moment.

sat4all

21st March 2019, 10:26

Nvidia 419.67 Creator Ready Driver have been Released.
Going to check them tonight, maybe Manni will do first :D

huhn

21st March 2019, 10:29

did someone try this driver:
https://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/145411

this a driver with professional applications in mind like quadro cards.

this driver aims to improve workloads with video applications like adobe premiere pro so correct video playback should be far more important.

Manni

21st March 2019, 11:03

Nvidia 419.67 Creator Ready Driver have been Released.
Going to check them tonight, maybe Manni will do first :D

Not checking anything until the next major branch expected in April :)

[EDIT: unless someone reports any significant change, of course!]

chros

21st March 2019, 11:31

Not checking anything until the next major branch expected in April :)
Me neither until a new GPU/TV (which won't happen tomorrow) :D

j82k

21st March 2019, 13:37

Nvidia 419.67 Creator Ready Driver have been Released.
Going to check them tonight, maybe Manni will do first :D

- metadata still broken
- HDR still only trigger when madVR is set to 10-bit
- moving my mouse cursor disables HDR (this one is really annoying)

I surely won't be buying another nvidia card until this mess gets fixed....

sat4all

21st March 2019, 14:13

- metadata still broken
- HDR still only trigger when madVR is set to 10-bit
- moving my mouse cursor disables HDR (this one is really annoying)

I surely won't be buying another nvidia card until this mess gets fixed....

Thanks for reporting back, hopefully we get our fix in the next major branch which suppose to be released after Windows 10 april update aka 19H1.

XMonarchY

21st March 2019, 14:51

Thank You, guys, CRU 1.4.1 with DisplayID also solved my above mentioned issue. That's what I did:
- wrote down the madvr timings, removed the madvr created custom resolution, then restart
- in CRU 1.4.1
-- add DisplayID to Extension blocks and set it as the 1st entry
-- set madvr timings and set Pixel clock and Native as well

It's a big help to get rid of a major annoyance, now I can set 23p as the default refresh rate of the TV :)

Btw, I still use the Display Changer II (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1863306#post1863306) util to easily manage 2 displays.

I managed to get CRU to create proper refresh rate, but it also disappeared after a reboot... Oddly, DSR resolutions stick fine. The CRU-based resolution would disappear after reboot regardless of whether DSR was enabled or not. I didn't use Extension blocks though...

chros

21st March 2019, 15:43

I didn't use Extension blocks though...
Then use it :)

KoD

21st March 2019, 21:30

You directly contradicted what two of the most influential developers (Madshi and Nevcairiel) had already stated, by suggesting that the issue with metadata passthrough might not be a bug or might even be desirable (it is a bug and it isn't desirable), and that the API support will be deprecated (it won't and the bug is expected to be fixed in the next major branch release). You also questioned the data that I've produced with the Maestro. The references you posted where not relevant for various reasons, which I explained. That's confusing and unhelpful. Have you read the thread, including the last few pages, or are you just posting randomly?

But if you want to keep posting on the subject, please go on, it's a free forum :)

It would help if you would understand what I am saying.

The short version:
- applications that do not use fullscreen exclusive mode can not expect min/max/avg luminance values to be sent as-is to the display, because the Windows display compositor is the one that actually mixes the output of all the applications (some HDR, some SDR, each with their own settings) on a common surface, and the parameters of that surface are used to tonemap the content and get exposed to the display.
- an application which does use fullscreen exclusive mode however, might be entitled to expect its min/max/avg values to be the one advertised to the display; this is the only case where the issue may be seen as a bug.
- the presentation that I posted has the nVidia guy saying that turning HDR on changed with the release of Windows RedStone 2, which brought the initial HDR support in Windows; that doesn't mean the NvApi is not going to work anymore, but the path forward for proper support of HDR for windowed (borderless and not) applications is through the Windows DXGI API.
- I did not "question" in a malicious way what you did, as you seem to have interpreted it; I wanted a clarification out of curiosity; the explanation that the driver was simply advertising an avg luminance fit for your projector would have been simpler to explain the low 20 nits value you noticed; but since you added afterwards that you are getting the same with a display monitor, then this simple explanation is not true.

The references I have posted are very relevant and helpful. But you have to watch/read and understand them.

If madshi or nevcariel find what I said to be wrong, they can easily speak against it themselves. I doubt they will have much to speak against of, though.

Manni

21st March 2019, 21:45

It would help if you would understand what I am saying.

The short version:
- applications that do not use fullscreen exclusive mode can not expect min/max/avg luminance values to be sent as-is to the display, because the Windows display compositor is the one that actually mixes the output of all the applications (some HDR, some SDR, each with their own settings) on a common surface, and the parameters of that surface are used to tonemap the content and get exposed to the display.
- an application which does use fullscreen exclusive mode however, might be entitled to expect its min/max/avg values to be the one advertised to the display; this is the only case where the issue may be seen as a bug.
- the presentation that I posted has the nVidia guy saying that turning HDR on changed with the release of Windows RedStone 2, which brought the initial HDR support in Windows; that doesn't mean the NvApi is not going to work anymore, but the path forward for proper support of HDR for windowed (borderless and not) applications is through the Windows DXGI API.
- I did not "question" in a malicious way what you did, as you seem to have interpreted it; I wanted a clarification out of curiosity; the explanation that the driver was simply advertising an avg luminance fit for your projector would have been simpler to explain the low 20 nits value you noticed; but since you added afterwards that you are getting the same with a display monitor, then this simple explanation is not true.

The references I have posted are very relevant and helpful. But you have to watch/read and understand them.

If madshi or nevcariel find what I said to be wrong, they can easily speak against it themselves. I doubt they will have much to speak against of, though.

It looks like you are just dumping posts and not reading the thread, so I'm out :)

KoD

21st March 2019, 22:20

That... or you don't understand what I'm saying.

Manni

21st March 2019, 22:23

That... or you don't understand what I'm saying.

Sure. Still, I'm out :)

Klaus1189

25th March 2019, 16:27

What is the difference between these two?
419.67 GRD 2019-03-25
419.67 CRD 2019-03-20
The same version number suggests to me that it is completely the same, but I am not sure.
The GRD is WHQL, but other than that?

nevcairiel

25th March 2019, 16:31

Its the exact same driver. Its just marketing to advertise to both gamers and creators.

Asmodian

25th March 2019, 22:58

Nvidia hopefully has a slower QA group that tests the creator releases a bit more with such applications; both releases use the same development branch but the game driver is more likely to have a tweak for a particular game that unexpectedly hurts creative applications. The creative releases would be more stable but come out less often.

More cynically, I agree with nevcairiel, it is probably just a way to start including creative types in marking. Nvidia had been pretty exclusively marketing to gamers in the consumer space and science/engineering in the professional space.

Nicog

26th March 2019, 09:46

Hi,

Like a lot of RTX users I need to use FSE to avoid stuttering (which is very annoying with my videporjector because of HDR switch time - impossible to use top seekbar).

But with last drivers, even in FSE I had massive stuttering (419.37, 419.35 at least). I tryed almost everything with or without FSE I can find on the web.

Just before i wanted to put my RTX card on ebay, I tried 417.71 driver. And with this driver, it works in FSE (no stuttering).

Just to share my experience in case of someone has similar issue...

takenori

26th March 2019, 14:05

mpc-hc+madvr:
playing hdr video with the latest nvidia driver 419.67 resulted in sdr fallback after every overlay (volume, seekbar, rightclick) in fullscreen windowed mode.
before the update, the sdr fallback only happen when I quit the fullscreen windowed mode.

Nicog

28th March 2019, 21:40

hajosattila

29th March 2019, 20:51

425.11 (hotfix driver) massive stuttering... (RTX 2060/latest Win 10, MPC-HC, madVR)

Warner306

29th March 2019, 21:00

Maybe you should mention the stuttering issue only applies to RTX cards? Currently, it makes it appear like it applies to all Nvidia cards.

ryrynz

29th March 2019, 21:38

Indeed. I've experienced no issues on my 1060 and I update every release.

brazen1

29th March 2019, 21:44

Asmodian

30th March 2019, 00:00

I have been testing with 419.67 GRD, 2080 Ti, Win10 1809, Zoom Player, and madVR v0.92.17.

Now everything seems fine for me, HDR needs 10 bit to trigger but works without FSE. I get smooth playback at 24 and 60 Hz and I tested using 1080p24, 4Kp24, and 4Kp60 sources.

I started my testing today because I noticed some reproducible stutter. I already had 419.67 installed through GFE. I went to Nvidia's site and downloaded 419.67 CRD and did a clean install using that and after rebooting all the stutter went away. I then did the same with the GRD and nothing changed. I don't really have anything else to add, I tried to test a lot of stuff and I swear I noticed some reproducible bad behavior, but now I cannot reproduce any of if, everything looks good. :confused:

I was also worried about bad behavior of my 2017 LG C7 OLED at 24 Hz but all my testing today has convinced me that when accepting 8 bit RGB at 24 or 60 Hz, and with the input set to PC, I get proper playback out of it. 24 Hz isn't exactly smooth, of course, but I do not have any judder. :)

XMonarchY

30th March 2019, 23:11

Then use it :)

OK, awesome, it worked, the custom refresh rate now sticks, BUUUT... madVR does not auto-switch to it. The custom refresh rate is labeled as 24Hz, stands separate in NVidia CP, madVR refresh rate modes are set to "1080p23, 1080p24", and yet when 23/24hz is launched, madVR doesn't use the custom resolution, but switches to generic 23Hz...

When I press CTRL+J, what is the indicator that custom or correct refresh rate is used? I ask because even when I remove madVR "1080p23, 1080p24" refresh modes (leave that line blank) and just force it to use custom NVidia CP 24Hz refresh by selecting and applying it in NVidia CP, CTRL+J info seems identical to the ones shown for standard non-custom 23Hz... "1 frame skip every 10-12 minutes" or so...

Klaus1189

31st March 2019, 11:38

I agree with Warner above. Not only the differences between RTX and GTX cards should be noted but other important variables. I use my nVidia card for more than just one player. I think testers are just testing one or two players and passing driver reports off as perfect. For instance, using DVDFab Media Player, HDR stopped switching after driver version 416.81. Some of us use more than simply MPC-HC/BE. If this thread is exclusively for madVR compatible players only, you should state such imo. I use 5 players for example and only two are madVR compatible. 416.81 is fine with all of them. It should be noted 'fine' for video drivers. Audio drivers have been screwed up since 388.59. I edit the installer appropriately using the last fully working versions of each aside from the no 12 bit retention after a reboot issue that doesn't affect me. This is just nVidia. No idea AMD or Intel quirks but at least you've provided a gathering spot to share driver reports and this is mine.

OK, I added some info to the first post. If I did something wrong or missed anything, correct me and I update it.
As you wrote it, indeed there was an audio issue. I can remember now but I can't find the exact problem. Can you please post it here again?

I have been testing with 419.67 GRD, 2080 Ti, Win10 1809, Zoom Player, and madVR v0.92.17.

Now everything seems fine for me, HDR needs 10 bit to trigger but works without FSE. I get smooth playback at 24 and 60 Hz and I tested using 1080p24, 4Kp24, and 4Kp60 sources.

I started my testing today because I noticed some reproducible stutter. I already had 419.67 installed through GFE. I went to Nvidia's site and downloaded 419.67 CRD and did a clean install using that and after rebooting all the stutter went away. I then did the same with the GRD and nothing changed. I don't really have anything else to add, I tried to test a lot of stuff and I swear I noticed some reproducible bad behavior, but now I cannot reproduce any of if, everything looks good. :confused:

I was also worried about bad behavior of my 2017 LG C7 OLED at 24 Hz but all my testing today has convinced me that when accepting 8 bit RGB at 24 or 60 Hz, and with the input set to PC, I get proper playback out of it. 24 Hz isn't exactly smooth, of course, but I do not have any judder. :)

For the stuttering issue I need info from two or more of a specific driver version. What driver version has really the problem as Asmodian has no more stuttering.

As already mentioned I cannot test as I don't have any Nvidia card.

chros

31st March 2019, 12:37

OK, awesome, it worked, the custom refresh rate now sticks, BUUUT... madVR does not auto-switch to it.
Which nvidia driver version do you use?
Have you read this (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1869139#post1869139) and this (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1869139#post1869139) ?

brazen1

6th April 2019, 17:53

OK, I added some info to the first post. If I did something wrong or missed anything, correct me and I update it.
As you wrote it, indeed there was an audio issue. I can remember now but I can't find the exact problem. Can you please post it here again?

No auto switch from stereo to multiple speaker setup in Windows Audio considering if AVR state is On or Off.

https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=229692&pid=2721301#pid2721301

SamuriHL

11th April 2019, 15:10

Manni can you check 425.31 and see if the metadata issue is resolved? It would be most appreciated. Thanks!

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

nevcairiel

11th April 2019, 16:27

Contrary to its version number, this is still a 418-series driver (they ran out of numbers). The "new" major driver release should be 430+ later this month, probably ready for Windows 10 1903.

SamuriHL

11th April 2019, 16:33

Well THAT sucks. I really would like them to release it NOW LOL!

P.S. That driver SUCKS! They fixed NOTHING from the previous release. Move the mouse, HDR goes away just like the last driver. Come on, nVidia, get it together man!

Manni

11th April 2019, 17:41

Contrary to its version number, this is still a 418-series driver (they ran out of numbers). The "new" major driver release should be 430+ later this month, probably ready for Windows 10 1903.

Thanks Nevcairiel, saves me a test. :)

SamuriHL, I'll check the 430+ later this month.

SamuriHL

11th April 2019, 18:13

Yup, much appreciated. I wouldn't care as much as I do if it weren't for the fact that I use nVenc HEVC encoding on that machine and would like to update my ffmpeg instance, but, it requires a later driver because they switched to the latest nVidia API (which is a good thing and what I'd like to use). But I'm stuck with the last driver that actually works for passthrough at the moment. As SOON as they release the new driver I'll be testing it, as well.

cremor

13th April 2019, 09:35

425.31 GRD 2019-04-11 need info for any possible fixes, but it seems to be nothing fixed of any HTPC related stuff

I don't have stuttering problems with 425.31 on a RTX 2070 (with V-Sync at it's default setting). But I've never tested any 419.x version so I can't say if the stuttering others reported is fixed or my system is just not affected.

TechnoPeasant

16th April 2019, 13:51

Now everything seems fine for me, HDR needs 10 bit to trigger but works without FSE.

Just wanted to pop in and say this behavior was the same for me. I had to drop back down to the last known good driver in order to use 8-bit + dither + HDR together.

Klaus1189

16th April 2019, 18:02

I don't have stuttering problems with 425.31 on a RTX 2070 (with V-Sync at it's default setting). But I've never tested any 419.x version so I can't say if the stuttering others reported is fixed or my system is just not affected.

Thank you cremor.

For verifying cremor's results, I need some info from other Nvidia users. Is the stutter issue for RTX cards fixed or probably it was just a setting which was misconfigured by default during installation, I think I have read something like that from ryrynz somewhere...

ryrynz

16th April 2019, 23:59

clsid

17th April 2019, 00:05

NM20

17th April 2019, 21:50

Manni

18th April 2019, 10:01

I am on the latest Nvidia drivers and all of a sudden when playing a frame packed 24p film via MPC with Mad VR it has the magenta display no matter whether I pick 8 bit or 12 bit on the Nvidia CP.

I am using a JVC projector, but on an earlier driver this didn't happen and 3d films were fine. What can I do?

Go back to an earlier driver (385.28 recommended) or upgrade the projector. :)

The magenta bug is gone on the new (2019) 4K models, it doesn't happen in 8bits or 12bits, at any frame rate, which makes using 8bits an option again.

With older models, 385.28 only has the magenta bug at 4K60 8bits. There is no magenta bug at 12bits (though colorspace is forced to YCC 422 internally when using RGB or YCC444, irrespective of the frame rate, which hopefully will be solved on the new models, it won't be on the old ones).

Every driver post 385.28 breaks something. The only advantage to using a more recent driver with a GTX card is 3D. Otherwise stick to 385.28.

I think 391.24 is the last driver where the magenta bug is not with 12bits as well as 8bits, at all frame rates. However the video levels are borked in 12bits if using video levels, and you can't select 12bits in a custom res. Of course 3D only improved with 391.35, so it's one or the other. Then after 398.11 you lose HDR passthrough as well.

Again, 385.28 is the driver to use with GTX (not an option with RTX), unless you really have to use a more recent driver for whatever reason, or a frame drop in 3D every 13min instead of every 3 minutes is good enough motivation to deal with all the other issues.

Hopefully the next major driver branch coming up this month should allow at least some of us to upgrade, especially if HDR passthrough is supported again.

Klaus1189, if you think it's useful, please could you link to this post in the first post, as a "note to JVC projector owners with nVidia GPU"? Thanks!

Charky

18th April 2019, 12:21

385.28 GRD 2017-08-14 HDR passthrough OK
Win10 1809: Use this version if you want to use custom resolutions in 8bit and 12bit. If you want to use newer driver versions, you need CRU for custom refresh rates
I was able to test this more precisely once again yesterday...

385.28 perfectly switches from 60Hz/8bits to madvr-created custom 23Hz/12bits without a hitch. Atmos passthrough works (that may sound silly but I encountered HDMI sound issues with newer drivers as well...), HDR works, 12 bits works like a charm, it's the perfect driver for me. I need a default 60 Hz since I also use my HTPC for internet browsing, YouTube watching, gaming via streaming...

I would have used CRU with newer drivers but, somehow, the "front porch" value found by madvr for each and every optimized timings (1276) was too high and CRU wouldn't let me use it (red-colored text, "ok" button blanked).

If I may add, even with newer drivers, I never could switch from stock 60Hz/8bits to a CRU-created custom 23Hz/12 bits.

60Hz/8 bits could only be switched to custom 23Hz/8 bits. 12 bits had to be activated before the switch (as already evidenced and documented by many).

Bottom line : as much as it pains me to use an almost 2 years-old driver (I'm a mad updater :D), 385.28 saves my ass one more time, as it already had by allowing me to create a custom res for my Sony HW40ES, something other drivers wouldn't let me...

NM20

18th April 2019, 14:18

Go back to an earlier driver (385.28 recommended) or upgrade the projector. :)

The magenta bug is gone on the new (2019) 4K models, it doesn't happen in 8bits or 12bits, at any frame rate, which makes using 8bits an option again.

With older models, 385.28 only has the magenta bug at 4K60 8bits. There is no magenta bug at 12bits (though colorspace is forced to YCC 422 internally when using RGB or YCC444, irrespective of the frame rate, which hopefully will be solved on the new models, it won't be on the old ones).

Every driver post 385.28 breaks something. The only advantage to using a more recent driver with a GTX card is 3D. Otherwise stick to 385.28.

I think 391.24 is the last driver where the magenta bug is not with 12bits as well as 8bits, at all frame rates. However the video levels are borked in 12bits if using video levels, and you can't select 12bits in a custom res. Of course 3D only improved with 391.35, so it's one or the other. Then after 398.11 you lose HDR passthrough as well.

Again, 385.28 is the driver to use with GTX (not an option with RTX), unless you really have to use a more recent driver for whatever reason, or a frame drop in 3D every 13min instead of every 3 minutes is good enough motivation to deal with all the other issues.

Hopefully the next major driver branch coming up this month should allow at least some of us to upgrade, especially if HDR passthrough is supported again.

Klaus1189, if you think it's useful, please could you link to this post in the first post, as a "note to JVC projector owners with nVidia GPU"? Thanks!

That is a huge help and plenty of detail, thank you. It was a 3d film that it wasn’t working for and causing the bug, I don’t watch many 3d films and it looks like it will even fewer going forward!

I thought at first it may be some MADVR setting, such as report BT2020 that was causing it.

What I can’t understand is how it worked recently and I have upgraded the driver every iteration because I also use the PC for gaming. However, now it has gone bonkers again.

I am amazed no one has created some sort of software solution to the issues. Thanks again for the help.

Aemstel

18th April 2019, 16:38

AFAIA CLSID's Nvidia inspector profile resolves it in every case but it also seems it either has been fixed or is a rare occurrence when upgrading. Perhaps keeping track of which versions caused it isn't worthwhile at all. Does anyone still have this issue?

I agree with you. It's hard to pinpoint what's going on. I had the stuttering with 425.31 driver and rolled back to 418.91 and all was smooth again. However, I tried 425.31 again after reading about clsid's (thank you!) Nvidia settings. I tried those settings and all is smooth now. I can't be sure if the settings actually fixed it or something else caused the stuttering before. In any case, those settings are worth trying out for anyone experiencing stuttering issues.

NM20

19th April 2019, 18:29

Klaus1189

20th April 2019, 11:27

NM20

20th April 2019, 14:28

@GTPVHD thank you, do you have more info about Intel? I think it's time to add info for Intel users.

@NM20 and Manni should I remove the Nvidia Note about magenta bug and JVC projectors in the first post?

@all if you have any info about Intel or you think that something is missing and should be added, please let me know.

Thank you :)

I think it was useful information. My solution may help some people too, so whatever you think is best.

Manni

20th April 2019, 21:54

@GTPVHD thank you, do you have more info about Intel? I think it's time to add info for Intel users.

@NM20 and Manni should I remove the Nvidia Note about magenta bug and JVC projectors in the first post?

@all if you have any info about Intel or you think that something is missing and should be added, please let me know.

Thank you :)

NM20 made a mistake, there is no reason for checking “report BT2020” with a rec-709 calibration. The magenta bug is still an issue for many JVCs, so I would leave the link as it might be useful for others.

kostik

23rd April 2019, 14:45

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/mortal-kombat-11-game-ready-driver/

Nvidia GeForce 430.39 WHQL driver, should be the WDDM 2.6 driver but Win10 May 2019 update still not yet officially released.

New branch... [r430_34-5] WDDM 2.6. Finally it switches to HDR mode immediately and they fixed the 'bug' where seek bar unhidden was causing the screen to change to SDR mode and once hidden again to HDR. I hope metadata is also fixed, waiting for the experts test :)

j82k

23rd April 2019, 15:39

It's even in the release notes of 430.39:

Fixed Issues in this Release[madVR][HDR]: MadVR is not rendering videos in HDR mode using MPC player. [200505657]

grendelrt

23rd April 2019, 15:47

New branch... [r430_34-5] WDDM 2.6. Finally it switches to HDR mode immediately and they fixed the 'bug' where seek bar unhidden was causing the screen to change to SDR mode and once hidden again to HDR. I hope metadata is also fixed, waiting for the experts test :)

Is HDR metadata being passed correctly (not 1000/20 for everything)?

j82k

23rd April 2019, 16:21

4000 nit metadata is passed correctly. HDR triggering when madVR is set to 8-bit works too. So far so good.... :)

Klaus1189

23rd April 2019, 16:30

Do custom refresh rates work on Win10 1809 without CRU (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1868928#post1868928) in 430.39?

nevcairiel

23rd April 2019, 16:34

Do custom refresh rates work on Win10 1809 without CRU (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1868928#post1868928) in 430.39?

You should always prefer to use CRU in any case, it gives you far better control.

SamuriHL

23rd April 2019, 18:39

Manni

23rd April 2019, 18:50

I like this driver very much. It looks to me like they fixed the metadata but I have no real way to confirm. HDR triggers perfectly. I'm very pleased. I think we have a new baseline driver. Of course, others will need to chime in here.

Only checked briefly with my LG 4K monitor, the HDR metadata passthrough is fixed and it looks like it was able to switch to HDR in 8bits.

I'll report back if I see any issues with the JVC later tonight.

Looks like a good one though :)

brazen1

23rd April 2019, 19:16

I've installed the new nVidia driver 430.39. It is now once again allowing madVR to switch HDR mode. It has also rectified the long lingering audio problem - Multi channel vs stereo auto switch dependent on AVR state on and off.

As expected, nVidia no longer supports 3D. It has been completely removed from the driver install. So far I have installed 3D vision from an older driver. I get a notice that 3D vision does not match the new graphics driver after installing it. I also ran the 3D .reg file in madVR. The 3D option no longer shows up in Windows display properties or NCP. I did attempt to play a 3DMVC.iso in PowerDVD. 3D mode does not engage. I also tried MPC-BE. It displays some strange SBS and then does engage 3D mode. This is a frame packed MVC iso. It shouldn't go into SBS mode imo.

I don't want to spend anymore time fussing with this new driver and I will be reverting back to 416.81 video drivers. Instead of editing those drivers and applying the 388.59 audio driver (bug free) as I've been doing in the past, I will be attempting to use the newer 430.39 audio driver which at this time appears to also be bug free. This combo will update me to the newest working audio and video drivers that meet my demands.

*edit*
The audio bug still exists using the 430.39 driver. It doesn't survive a reboot. I will be using 388.59 audio driver with 416.81 video driver as usual.

SamuriHL

23rd April 2019, 19:19

Yea I've been watching Infinity War since I installed it and it's flawless. I'm also running 1903 so having a driver that truly supports it and works for everything else is great. And hopefully the RTX owners can chime in on how it works for them, as well. I landed a new job so I started a rebuild of my HTPC. At some point I'll likely get a 2070 for the new 9900k I'm building. Would love to know we have a new baseline driver that works for everyone.

NoTechi

23rd April 2019, 20:42

As expected, nVidia no longer supports 3D.

This is crazy ... in other words no more driver updates from now on .... :(
Time to start to look for AMD

NoTechi

hotripper

24th April 2019, 01:24

*edit*
The audio bug still exists using the 430.39 driver. It doesn't survive a reboot. I will be using 388.59 audio driver with 416.81 video driver as usual.

Audio bug??? What is the issue? Just curious

ryrynz

24th April 2019, 01:54

One page back...

No auto switch from stereo to multiple speaker setup in Windows Audio considering if AVR state is On or Off.

grendelrt

24th April 2019, 02:03

I launched a couple HDR games in Windows on the new 430.39 driver and they both reported 1000/400 metadata. Looks like it still doesn't update per game, but its no longer 1000 /20 :/

NoTechi

24th April 2019, 10:20

What would be the best way to use an older audio driver? Not sure if it is the audio bug but from time to time windows audio is on stereo. Just a reboot fixes this.
Another problem is that I can't select Atmos anymore even though it was working for some time. Maximum I can select is 7.1. My guess is that this is also caused by communicating wrong EDIT information between AVR and Windows thats why I would like to try an older audio driver.

NoTechi

clsid

24th April 2019, 13:06

Has 430.39 fixed the stuttering problems that some were having with previous drivers?

Manni

24th April 2019, 17:24

I launched a couple HDR games in Windows on the new 430.39 driver and they both reported 1000/400 metadata. Looks like it still doesn't update per game, but its no longer 1000 /20 :/

I don’t think the OS has ever reported dynamic HDR metadata. It’s always been fixed. Not sure if the games ask for various values or not.

I can only confirm that with film content, HDR passthrough works fine and reports the actual metadata sent by madVR.

It doesn’t solve any of the outstanding issues on the JVCs (mainly the forced YCC422 in 12bits in RGB or YCC444), but it doesn’t seem to make anything worse.

Apart from the zapping of 3D, it looks like a pretty good driver, and the only one that users of RTX cards can use if they want HDR passthrough to work with madVR.

SirMaster

24th April 2019, 17:37

This is NVIDIA Profle Inspector tool with an optimized profile for MPC-HC/BE.

Download (https://www.sendspace.com/file/ohoudl)

Most important settings it uses:
Power management mode = Adaptive
VSync = on
GSync = off
SLI = off
Prefer NVIDIA on Optimus systems

Is there a way to check if this actually worked?

I tried running this on my system with RTX 2060 on 430.39 driver, but how do I know it actually did something?

I thought I would see something like vsync ON in my nvidia control panel settings, but even after running the .bat file it still says "use application setting" for vsync in my control panel for example.

grendelrt

24th April 2019, 18:28

I don’t think the OS has ever reported dynamic HDR metadata. It’s always been fixed. Not sure if the games ask for various values or not.

I can only confirm that with film content, HDR passthrough works fine and reports the actual metadata sent by madVR.

It doesn’t solve any of the outstanding issues on the JVCs (mainly the forced YCC422 in 12bits in RGB or YCC444), but it doesn’t seem to make anything worse.

Apart from the zapping of 3D, it looks like a pretty good driver, and the only one that users of RTX cards can use if they want HDR passthrough to work with madVR.Yeah I have no frame of reference since it has never worked correctly since I have had my hdr projector. I was hoping the metadata for each game would at least have the peak brightness output, such as 4000,1000,10k nits etc.

Nicog

24th April 2019, 21:48

Has 430.39 fixed the stuttering problems that some were having with previous drivers?

Yes, at least better than previous driver (I didn't tried w/o vsunc ON).

Klaus1189

25th April 2019, 12:44

I updated some stuff in the first page, if something is missing or probably wrong, let me know

clsid

25th April 2019, 15:20

Is there a way to check if this actually worked?

I tried running this on my system with RTX 2060 on 430.39 driver, but how do I know it actually did something?

I thought I would see something like vsync ON in my nvidia control panel settings, but even after running the .bat file it still says "use application setting" for vsync in my control panel for example.You can use the NvidiaProfileInspector tool to view all application profiles on your system. The .bat file adjusts the settings of the "Media Player Classic" profile. It doesn't change your global defaults.

Nicog

25th April 2019, 20:18

Yes, at least better than previous driver (I didn't tried w/o vsunc ON).

Yesterday when I installed it it worked (no stuttering). Today it's dead (like previous drivers in fact, and also on non HDR content).

I'm back to 418.91, and now it's works fine...

I'm the only guy who has this issue?

hotripper

25th April 2019, 23:17

Yesterday when I installed it it worked (no stuttering). Today it's dead (like previous drivers in fact, and also on non HDR content).

I'm back to 418.91, and now it's works fine...

I'm the only guy who has this issue?

What issue stutter? I have it stutter issues too. I found a workaround for now though.

sat4all

26th April 2019, 09:34

Guys,

Carefull with the new driver it cause high cpu usage, nvidia Container LS alone take about 30% from my cpu, had to stop it and disable auto start.

Nicog

26th April 2019, 09:35

Massive stutter (different of what I had without FSE ou without sync ON on HDR).

Maybe an issue with my config...

What workaround are you speaking about Hotripper?

SirMaster

26th April 2019, 14:19

You can use the NvidiaProfileInspector tool to view all application profiles on your system. The .bat file adjusts the settings of the "Media Player Classic" profile. It doesn't change your global defaults.

Oh yeah that makes sense, thanks.

I'll just have to apply them manually then I think as I use MPC-BE rather than MPC-HC.

For some reason with madVR in MPC-HC I get crashing all the time (like when going fullscreen or resizing the window), but I do not ever with MPC-BE. I suspect it's some conflict with LAV filters being used by default in MPC-HC compared to internal filters included with MPC-BE, but the errors are beyond my debugging capabilities.

I also get some massive posturization when switching to full-screen often with MPC-HC, but never with MPC-BE.

Sorry doesn't belong in this thread anyways.

clsid

26th April 2019, 14:49

The profile works for MPC-BE as well.

The crash dialog should usually indicate where the crash happened. Post screenshots.

I doubt it is because of LAV Filters. Most likely a driver issue.

SirMaster

26th April 2019, 14:55

The profile works for MPC-BE as well.

The crash dialog should usually indicate where the crash happened. Post screenshots.

I doubt it is because of LAV Filters. Most likely a driver issue.

I can if it's something you think you or someone else would want to troubleshoot.

Though driver wasn't my first guess because it only happens in HC and not BE, but you know way more about this stuff than I do. Happens with both the 417 and 430 driver I had on that system. I know it's some madVR .ax file that it says is the "cause", but again, madVR is running exactly the same in BE heh.

I shall post it in the MPC-HC thread? I won't be able to until Sunday night anyways.

hotripper

26th April 2019, 19:00

Massive stutter (different of what I had without FSE ou without sync ON on HDR).

Maybe an issue with my config...

What workaround are you speaking about Hotripper?

Here: https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1872824&postcount=55968

So far this makes 3 of us with 2070s and stutter

cremor

27th April 2019, 08:52

clsid

27th April 2019, 13:30

Yes, that should be fine too.

Manni

27th April 2019, 13:47

I'm back to 385.28 for now as I needed 3D to calibrate my PJ :)

Until a new version of windows forces me to upgrade, I don't see why I should lose such an important functionality for no benefit (I have a 1080ti).

Hopefully nVidia with put HDMI 3D support back (I did request it), but I'm not holding my breath.

It might be more realistic to prevent an OS upgrade from 1809. Unfortunately MS doesn't make that easy, even when editing group policies. You can delay it, but you can't stop it.

chros

27th April 2019, 15:13

Yes you can, use LTSB. (see my signature)

Manni

27th April 2019, 15:40

Yes you can, use LTSB. (see my signature)

I thought LTSB only delayed updates for 2-3 years? It's better than six months, but you still can't stop the upgrades, unless it has changed since I last looked at it.

Anyway I don't really want to do a full re-install, my HTPC has Pro x64, I don't have an Enterprise license.

huhn

27th April 2019, 18:49

do you really want to run a 2-3 year old OS?

if intel 3D playback works i have a theoretical workaround in my head.
and there is still navi.

Manni

27th April 2019, 20:20

do you really want to run a 2-3 year old OS?

if intel 3D playback works i have a theoretical workaround in my head.
and there is still navi.

All the security updates are applied. And yes, frankly I would be happy with 1809 in three years for a HTPC. What's wrong with that? The only need to update is to try to fix what they have broken over time.

If 385.28 had the better 3D that later drivers have, it would really be perfect.

Anyway I'm in the process of moving away from the HTPC altogether for film playback, provided that Envy delivers what we expect. Too much hassle really between OS, drivers and other issues.

Klaus1189

27th April 2019, 20:30

huhn

27th April 2019, 20:31

so you don't want to replace hardware ever?

el Filou

27th April 2019, 22:39

Carefull with the new driver it cause high cpu usage, nvidia Container LS alone take about 30% from my cpu, had to stop it and disable auto start.I can confirm. Here it takes up 100% of one CPU core.
I prefer to restart the service. Anyone knows what disabling that service does exactly?
I know the Telemetry isn't necessary, but I thought the Display Container was needed.
Edit: answering myself: NVIDIA Control Panel won't open if this service is not running. Display mode change via other means, reading GPU sensors, and NvAPI still seem to work fine. I guess you can still manually restart the service if you need to access NVIDIA Control Panel.

Manni

27th April 2019, 22:53

I understand fully your point, but all that is needed, is a graphics chip manufacturer that supplies drivers with 3D support and all other features working which is updated to run on actual and future OS versions. Sounds easy in theory ...

And when did that last happen? :)

What makes you think it will be any different in the future? :)

This thread really show the poor state of drivers/OS incompatibilities.

Frankly, they could have released a driver with everything working (HDR passthrough and HDR API in 8bits) before axing 3D... but they didn't.

semi70

27th April 2019, 23:10

Here: https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1872824&postcount=55968

So far this makes 3 of us with 2070s and stutter

I have a 2080 and I have the stutter issue too. I have no problems at all when im on the 418.91 driver. everything after that version I have the stutter issue. madvr is not reporting any problems and I tried every proposed fix posted here with no improvements.
when im in windowed mode there is no stutter too. it seems to be a full screen exclusive mode issue.
its a shame Im stuck on this driver now that they have released a HDR fix on the latest too.

j82k

27th April 2019, 23:53

Guys,

Carefull with the new driver it cause high cpu usage, nvidia Container LS alone take about 30% from my cpu, had to stop it and disable auto start.

Yep, every single time my PC wakes up from sleep 'NVDisplay.Container.exe' fully utilizes one cpu core and I have to kick it via task manager.

But this problem already existed with previous newish drivers I think.

hotripper

28th April 2019, 01:25

I have a 2080 and I have the stutter issue too. I have no problems at all when im on the 418.91 driver. everything after that version I have the stutter issue. madvr is not reporting any problems and I tried every proposed fix posted here with no improvements.
when im in windowed mode there is no stutter too. it seems to be a full screen exclusive mode issue.
its a shame Im stuck on this driver now that they have released a HDR fix on the latest too.

Yep sounds exactly like what I was experiencing. My fix has worked for me. Sorry it didnt work for you. I cant go back to that driver, I game a lot and don't really wanna miss those updates as I actually play the ones they improved. And I have tried that driver and it only fixed it temporarily but after a couple of restarts over a few days it just came back. So might as well have latest driver, for me anyways. Seems like madvr might need a new update for the new cards but I believe he is busy with his project atm.

Havent noticed Nvidia container using high cpu, and I have been watching during trying to trubleshoot the stutter issue.

el Filou

28th April 2019, 10:23

I think the Display Container LS only happens if you use standby/sleep.

Klaus1189

28th April 2019, 10:55

And when did that last happen? :)

What makes you think it will be any different in the future? :)

This thread really show the poor state of drivers/OS incompatibilities.

Frankly, they could have released a driver with everything working (HDR passthrough and HDR API in 8bits) before axing 3D... but they didn't.

Well, ... there is nothing that needs to be added, except at least the devs should be paid great for their work if I consider the prices of the green cards.

@all:
What is exactly the problem some guys here have with AMD cards? I have several different ones here, I know these are not the fastest, but I am happy with them and these were not expensive.

DMU

28th April 2019, 13:02

@all:
What is exactly the problem some guys here have with AMD cards? I have several different ones here, I know these are not the fastest, but I am happy with them and these were not expensive.
My problem is described here (http://bugs.madshi.net/view.php?id=596).

Klaus1189

28th April 2019, 13:09

Thank you, what file were you playing? Does it occur on hdr demo videos as well, so I can test, too? Maybe you can provide a link to a HDR file. Are you using HDR passthrough or processed in madVR?

DMU

28th April 2019, 13:38

File here (https://4kmedia.org/samsung-wonderland-two-hdr-uhd-4k-demo/).
HDR passthrough.
Post about your results, please.

Klaus1189

28th April 2019, 13:59

Cannot download file, seems it has too many downloads.
I search for other sources. Do you have another source?

DMU

28th April 2019, 14:15

Lets try from here (https://drive.google.com/open?id=18kLHSAYc15AgDwQK3NOrdAHkXQp6ZXbI).

ashlar42

28th April 2019, 14:42

Anyway I'm in the process of moving away from the HTPC altogether for film playback, provided that Envy delivers what we expect. Too much hassle really between OS, drivers and other issues.And what do you plan on using, if I may ask? I don't see much around supporting everything correctly.
One needs bitstreaming for all audio formats, proper HDR with metadata and autoswitching, proper refresh rates with autoswitching... is there something around that offers all that?

Klaus1189

28th April 2019, 17:06

It is not darker here. Only in FSE the composition rate is 60 which is wrong, but I don't know if it is an AMD issue or an Win 10 1809 issue, older versions of Win10 didn't had this issue. But it doesn't bother me, since I am fine in FSW, also the other issue is not relevant in FSW.
I tried to take screenshots directly but if you use passthrough the final pic is not displaying it right and in FSE I only got black picture, silly me, I knew that but forgot about it.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1c0ZdBPOX6tsEHJ6FGdFPwzy-7JRHkXO4?usp=sharing
I do get wrong colors in FSE, see also this issue (https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/373216-MPC-BE-colors-wrong) on videohelp.com and also here (https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/329866-incorrect-collor-display-in-video-playback#post2045830) here, FSW are the right colors. It also happens on SDR videos, I have a sample video of natural green grass which shows it perfectly. If it is shown wrong it gets very unnatural green, see also the color pattern in one of the videohelp threads.

Side note: Please use matching refresh rates, on your pics you were using 60 Hz for 23 Hz content. Avoid 3:2 Pulldown. But maybe you are using motion interpolation in madVR? Some love it some hate it.

DMU

28th April 2019, 17:35

It is not darker here. I am fine in FSW.
I assume that you have Polaris, not Vega?
Side note: Please use matching refresh rates, on your pics you were using 60 Hz for 23 Hz content. Avoid 3:2 Pulldown. But maybe you are using motion interpolation in madVR? Some love it some hate it.
I understand this, but it does not cause me inconvenience.
I do not use Smooth motion.

Klaus1189

28th April 2019, 17:39

Yes, Polaris RX480. I have a Vega 64 also here, but can not test now.

Just take a look at 50p videofile displayed at 60 Hz, it looks awful, especially during pans. I can only recommend using matched refresh rates. In my opinion one of the most important things.

DMU

28th April 2019, 17:48

If possible, check this at Vega later. I think this is a problem of Vega.
Thank you for your recommendations. But I do not use content with a frequency of more than 30p.

Manni

28th April 2019, 20:14

And what do you plan on using, if I may ask? I don't see much around supporting everything correctly.
One needs bitstreaming for all audio formats, proper HDR with metadata and autoswitching, proper refresh rates with autoswitching... is there something around that offers all that?

Off topic, but yes, I have an Oppo 203 clone (no disc) that does all that perfectly, and I'm working with a software developer friend at the moment to get a better interface from an iPad with a popular front end, as the Oppo 203 wasn't supported.

All the other media players I've looked at have issues with video and/or audio. The Dune Pro 4K could have been a great option but it doesn't look like it will ever work properly with the current chipset.

We've managed to get DVD/BD/UHD BD Folders working with this Oppo 203 clone. Files (mkv, ISOs) are a no go for now, but I already have all my discs ripped as folders anyway. I'll simply have to convert my 300 3D BD ISO rips to BD folders if we don't find a solution to play files (this is a limitation on the Oppo app itself, so hard to overcome as we have no command to sniff on the network). This will cost storage for 3D (double the space vs ISOs), but as my 3D collection isn't really growing, not too much of an issue. That won't help you if all your collection is in mkv or ISOs and if you're not willing to convert it.

Of course this will only work when/if the Envy lands, there is no way I can use this without a 3D LUT and HDR dynamic tonemapping with pixel shaders. At least not with my JVC projector, as the tonemapping is ok but far from being as good as what madVR delivers.

So for now, my HTPC is still very much necessary, but hopefully not for long :).

EDIT: funnily enough, this is the post of the devil: my post count is 666 as of now :)

ashlar42

29th April 2019, 11:28

Off topic, but yes, I have an Oppo 203 clone (no disc) that does all that perfectly, and I'm working with a software developer friend at the moment to get a better interface from an iPad with a popular front end, as the Oppo 203 wasn't supported.Oppo 203 clone? Details in PM, if you can. Edit: don't worry I've found everything. After more than a decade of Kodi, I could not go back to a GUI like that but it's a very interesting development, for sure.funnily enough, this is the post of the devil: my post count is 666 as of now :)I lured you here, son. There's no escaping now. Surrender to the dark side. :devil:
:D

Manni

29th April 2019, 13:06

Oppo 203 clone? Details in PM, if you can. Edit: don't worry I've found everything. After more than a decade of Kodi, I could not go back to a GUI like that but it's a very interesting development, for sure.
:D

You must have missed the part where I mentioned the work I'm doing to get this supported with a very popular front end on any tablet, phone etc, so that you can select the title you want to watch on a modern, beautiful interface and get it to play on the clone.

Unfortunately this requires a PC/laptop as a bridge between the tablet/phone and the clone, but the result is great: pretty and fully-featured interface on iPad (search, categories, genres, etc), flawless playback for all content, zero driver/OS headaches :)

Again, not an option for me until Envy lands, but very much looking forward to testing this combo.

Sorry everyone for the OT, let's move on :)

Klaus1189

29th April 2019, 16:15

Manni, just one last time offtopic. What App are you using with your clone 203? Do you have any link for the app and the clone. I got it that there is work to do, but maybe I could need at least one thing of these in future for anything. I am open to see new things.

cremor

29th April 2019, 16:41

Important note about 430.39:
Many users (myself included) report about high CPU usage of the process NVDisplay.Container.exe. Nvidia acknowledged the bug here: https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1107325/geforce-drivers/official-430-39-game-ready-whql-display-driver-feedback-thread-released-4-23-19-/post/6036972/#6036972

Asmodian

29th April 2019, 19:18

Interesting, may be related to the stutter some users are also experiencing? I do not see any CPU usage by NVDisplay Container, all instances of it show 0% CPU usage, and I do not have stuttering.

hotripper

30th April 2019, 00:02

May be a sleep issue
I dont think it has anything to do with the stuttering issues, I have stuttering but do not see ANY apps or services utilizing cpu abnormally

Asmodian

30th April 2019, 00:21

Sleep works fine for me too. Hmm...

hotripper

30th April 2019, 00:44

They acknowledge the bug but dont say how theyre able to recreate the issue. lol. Could be anything.

hotripper

30th April 2019, 00:47

Customers = Beta testers!!! Apply at Nvidia. com

nevcairiel

30th April 2019, 00:51

Why would they tell you how to reproduce an issue? They are happy if you don't encounter it.

In any case, there is a Hotfix driver thats supposed to fix it:
https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4798

hotripper

30th April 2019, 01:06

It would be helpful knowing as to avoid reproducing the bug, in general, until a fix is released, which has been.

suanm

2nd May 2019, 09:32

What does the CRD mean? 385.28 version seems unstable.The video images running on 385.28 version often go green while the playback.Furthermore,win10 18.09 and player often crash after changing screen refresh rate,for example,into 50hz(non-standard screen refresh rate)

suanm

2nd May 2019, 09:42

The most point is that 385.28 version results in the wrong level of video images (images go grey)

Asmodian

2nd May 2019, 18:55

Odd, 1809 does have a new WDM version and 430.39 is the first driver that supports it. Have you tried 430.39 or 430.53?

CRD means Creator Ready Driver, less optimized for games and more for creative applications. Supposedly, there is apparently little difference at the moment.

To fix the levels simply go into the change resolution section of the Nvidia control panel and set it to "Use Nvidia color settings" and set the output dynamic range to full.

suanm

3rd May 2019, 04:24

Hello,master asmodian.
If i go into the nvidia control panel
and 'set it to "Use Nvidia color settings" and set the output dynamic range to full',Seems MadVR doesn't work anymore.All depends on nvidia control panle i set up.If so, that kind of the change actually gets meaningless.Because all i want is based on madvr.The major purpose is to play 4k uhd hdr movies with madvr.if madvr doesn't work anymore,all really gets meaningless.

suanm

3rd May 2019, 06:02

i did a simple test for 430.39 version running on MadVR.Sure the levels of 430.39 running on MadVR was right while the plackback of 4k uhd hdr movies.Unfortunatedly my cpu burden rate was heavy,it was up to 100%.So i gave up 430.39 version.

Asmodian

3rd May 2019, 08:33

430.53 is the hotfix driver (https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4798/~/geforce-hotfix-driver-version-430.53) for that issue.

and 'set it to "Use Nvidia color settings" and set the output dynamic range to full',Seems MadVR doesn't work anymore.All depends on nvidia control panle i set up.If so, that kind of the change actually gets meaningless.Because all i want is based on madvr.The major purpose is to play 4k uhd hdr movies with madvr.if madvr doesn't work anymore,all really gets meaningless.

This is not true. Setting those simply tells Nvidia what to do with the RGB data madVR gives it. Nvidia always does something with it and if you use the same setting as its defaults you get the same results.

Nothing madVR does controls how Nvidia's drivers set those settings, they simply default to some value for your display or you can manually set them. It is "use default" or "use as set", neither of those are "application controlled". If it defaults to limited for your display the drivers will compress whatever madVR sends. The drivers always assume the video they get (madVR's output) is full range, so if you set madVR to limited as well you get double range compression. With the drivers using limited range it is impossible to get madVR's full range output to the display as full range.

This applies to bit depth as well, whatever bitdepth is set is what is sent to the display, madVR cannot control what the driver does with the data it sends. If madVR sends 10 bit with the driver on 8 bit it will dither the 10 bit video to 8 bit before sending it to the display. If madVR is set to 8 bit but the driver is set to 12 bit it will convert madVR's output to 12 bit and send 12 bit to the display. If it defaults to use YCbCr 422 it will convert and mangle madVR's RGB output before sending it if you leave it on "Use default color settings".

I like setting those manually, that way you know what is happening to the video data. If you use full range RGB at the same bitdepth as madVR or higher nothing bad will happen to madVR's output.

suanm

3rd May 2019, 11:36

@Asmodian
Thank you,master asmodian,for what you explain clearly.
I don't actually understand the relation between what MadVR does(MadVR outputs) and Nvidia control panel until you explain it above.So i will reset nvidia control panel to as you said or as you set.I will give up the default on nvidia control panel and set it to nvidia color control.Set desk color depth to 32bit,output color depth to 12 bpc,output color format to RGB,output dynamic range to full.If i do like that,whether I need to set MadVR to exclusive mode or not? Or i just need to set MadVR to windowed mode? if i set MadVR to windowed mode,nvidia will convert 8 bit color depth into 12 bit.If so,actual video effects or video images quality should be the same as you said above,doesn't it?

Asmodian

3rd May 2019, 18:41

Yes, either windowed or exclusive are fine with those settings, no quality loss. :)

Manni

5th May 2019, 10:31

Klaus1189

5th May 2019, 12:49

Klaus1189, you might want to add to the first page the link to the 430.59 hotfix (https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4798) posted by Nevcairiel that resolves the high CPU usage in 430.39 (especially until there is an official driver resolving this), and document it for 430.39.

Done.

Manni, just one last time offtopic. What App are you using with your clone 203? Do you have any link for the app and the clone. I got it that there is work to do, but maybe I could need at least one thing of these in future for anything. I am open to see new things.

Need offtopic info ;)

semi70

6th May 2019, 12:58

so anyone found a fix for the stutter issues on rtx cards with the latest drivers? im stuck on old firmware because only way to avoid the stutters but missing out on this HDR update.

hajosattila

6th May 2019, 13:18

so anyone found a fix for the stutter issues on rtx cards with the latest drivers? im stuck on old firmware because only way to avoid the stutters but missing out on this HDR update.

Download this (https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1871970&postcount=151)

Klaus1189

6th May 2019, 13:38

Also mentioned in first post. The second note in Nvidia section.

omgi0wn

8th May 2019, 20:34

I'm using 430.53 with my LG C8, but I don't seem to get the 10-bit or 12-bit options in the control panel anymore. Was looking to play movies with the 23Hz option in RGB Full @ 12 bpc in HDR.

I'm only getting the 8 bpc option, any ideas? In the past I thought I had the 12 bpc option.

Asmodian

8th May 2019, 21:15

I have a 12 bit option for 23Hz RGB using 430.53 on my C7. :confused:

kostik

8th May 2019, 22:36

SamuriHL

8th May 2019, 23:37

Yea working fine for me on the C8 with my 1060 and 430.53.

omgi0wn

8th May 2019, 23:45

Check if Deep Color is enabled on your C8 (Settings->Picture->Additional Settings->HDMI ULTRA HD Deep Color )

Yea working fine for me on the C8 with my 1060 and 430.53.

Very strange. I do have Ultra Deep Color enabled, but still only getting the 8 bpc option. Do you get the option when only HDR is enabled or SDR too?

Also, are you getting it with 60 Hz or at lower framerates?

I'm wondering if the sound bar I'm plugged into is limited me to 8 bpc, although I can't imagine why it would since I thought I had seen 12 bpc in the past. I'll try checking a few more things again.

I guess one last question, is it displayed as your primary monitor or extended?

SamuriHL

9th May 2019, 00:49

You won't get it with 60 as that's not possible on HDMI 2.0. You'll only get the option for 12 bit when you've got 23Hz selected. HDR/SDR doesn't matter.

Asmodian

9th May 2019, 01:02

You need to be actually running 30 Hz or below to see the 12 bit option. You cannot just select the refresh rate, you have to apply it.

omgi0wn

9th May 2019, 16:27

You won't get it with 60 as that's not possible on HDMI 2.0. You'll only get the option for 12 bit when you've got 23Hz selected. HDR/SDR doesn't matter.

You need to be actually running 30 Hz or below to see the 12 bit option. You cannot just select the refresh rate, you have to apply it.

I do have 23 Hz selected, and applied, but I'm still not seeing the option.

Windows Advanced Display Properties shows that the screen is displaying at 23 Hz, as does mpc-be if I view the stats. Still not seeing the option in Nvidia Control Panel though.

I'll take some screenshots when I'm home, maybe I'm missing something.

SamuriHL

10th May 2019, 01:28

Really not sure what's happening in your case but at this point I'd use driver cleaner, nuke the thing, and install clean.

Manni

10th May 2019, 08:17

I do have 23 Hz selected, and applied, but I'm still not seeing the option.

Windows Advanced Display Properties shows that the screen is displaying at 23 Hz, as does mpc-be if I view the stats. Still not seeing the option in Nvidia Control Panel though.

I'll take some screenshots when I'm home, maybe I'm missing something.

That can be because you're using a recent driver with a custom resolution. You need to select a standard resolution to be able to select 12bits even at 23p in the nVidia control panel. 385.28 (if GTX) allows to select 12bits even with a custom res. I forgot when that got taken away. Otherwise DDU and driver reinstall as suggested might help.

el Filou

12th May 2019, 02:53

x7007 on the madVR thread saying NVIDIA driver 430.64 reverts the output dynamic range to Limited when TV is turned off/on: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1874202#post1874202Edit: works fine on my system tooNvidia GeForce 430.64 WHQL driver with the fix for the high CPU usage bug in 430.39.It also includes security fixes for those vulnerabilities:https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4797

VBB

13th May 2019, 20:57

x7007 on the madVR thread saying NVIDIA driver 430.64 reverts the output dynamic range to Limited when TV is turned off/on

Works fine here, as with previous driver.

Jeff R 1

18th May 2019, 17:17

Go back to an earlier driver (385.28 recommended) or upgrade the projector. :)

The magenta bug is gone on the new (2019) 4K models, it doesn't happen in 8bits or 12bits, at any frame rate, which makes using 8bits an option again.

With older models, 385.28 only has the magenta bug at 4K60 8bits. There is no magenta bug at 12bits (though colorspace is forced to YCC 422 internally when using RGB or YCC444, irrespective of the frame rate, which hopefully will be solved on the new models, it won't be on the old ones).

Every driver post 385.28 breaks something. The only advantage to using a more recent driver with a GTX card is 3D. Otherwise stick to 385.28.

I think 391.24 is the last driver where the magenta bug is not with 12bits as well as 8bits, at all frame rates. However the video levels are borked in 12bits if using video levels, and you can't select 12bits in a custom res. Of course 3D only improved with 391.35, so it's one or the other. Then after 398.11 you lose HDR passthrough as well.

Again, 385.28 is the driver to use with GTX (not an option with RTX), unless you really have to use a more recent driver for whatever reason, or a frame drop in 3D every 13min instead of every 3 minutes is good enough motivation to deal with all the other issues.

Hopefully the next major driver branch coming up this month should allow at least some of us to upgrade, especially if HDR passthrough is supported again.

Klaus1189, if you think it's useful, please could you link to this post in the first post, as a "note to JVC projector owners with nVidia GPU"? Thanks!
The Magenta bug us gone for the JVC 2019 projector modesl, so I'm assuming that a firmware update for my 2018 model will fix that, or is it a physical problem that can't be fixed with a firmware update ?
And yes, I find that if I use any of the NVIDIA drivers where the meta date is correct, I get no HDR pass-through, I have to use one of the borked drivers so I can use the "slider" control in the Gamma settings.
Any other driver that isn't borked and the setting is gone, it's not even "greyed" out.

Why is that, do the drivers have to be defective to enable HDR pass-through to work properly and have the projector switch automatically between SDR and HDR ?

Klaus1189

18th May 2019, 17:47

Did you try fullscreen exclusive (madVR settings) for HDR passthrough on your Nvidia?

Manni

19th May 2019, 00:16

The Magenta bug us gone for the JVC 2019 projector modesl, so I'm assuming that a firmware update for my 2018 model will fix that, or is it a physical problem that can't be fixed with a firmware update ?
And yes, I find that if I use any of the NVIDIA drivers where the meta date is correct, I get no HDR pass-through, I have to use one of the borked drivers so I can use the "slider" control in the Gamma settings.
Any other driver that isn't borked and the setting is gone, it's not even "greyed" out.

Why is that, do the drivers have to be defective to enable HDR pass-through to work properly and have the projector switch automatically between SDR and HDR ?

385.28 works fine if you have a GTX. You get HDR passthrough and the slider works. If you have an RTX, you need 430.64.

I highly doubt that JVC will release a f/w fix for the magenta bug on the 2018 models (and earlier ones). They have never done that in the past (fixing things on an older model once new models are released). Given the issues they have with the new models, the chances that they would spend any development time on an older model to fix such a bug (supposing it's not a hardware issue) is close to zero. Of course, I hope for you that I'm wrong.

Jeff R 1

19th May 2019, 01:04

Did you try fullscreen exclusive (madVR settings) for HDR passthrough on your Nvidia?
Not in that case where the other drivers don't work with the HDR switching.
I don't care for fullscreen exlusive mode though, but I will see, just to satisfy my curiosity.

All the chapters in the movie are gone and I like to see how many frames per second, etc...

Jeff R 1

19th May 2019, 01:09

385.28 works fine if you have a GTX. You get HDR passthrough and the slider works. If you have an RTX, you need 430.64.

I highly doubt that JVC will release a f/w fix for the magenta bug on the 2018 models. They have never done that in the past (fixing things on an older model once new models are released. Given the issues they have with the new models, the chances that they would spend any development time on an older model to fix such a bug (supposing it's not a hardware issue) is close to zero. Of course, I hope for you that I'm wrong.
I have a GTX 1080ti, so I will try again with 385.28, I had to get NVIDIA to give me a link as it did not show up in the list of old drivers.
I restored the HTPC back to a restore point and it messed things up a bit, the NVIDIA control panel could not be accessed afterwards.

When you say the 2019 models, are we talking about late of 2019 or the new NX/RS series that have just been released ?

EDIT:
That was 398.11 that wouldn't work with HDR switching, I'll have to contact them again to get 385.28

EDIT:
I Googled it and it came up. :-)

Jeff R 1

19th May 2019, 08:04

385.28 works fine if you have a GTX. You get HDR passthrough and the slider works. If you have an RTX, you need 430.64.

I highly doubt that JVC will release a f/w fix for the magenta bug on the 2018 models. They have never done that in the past (fixing things on an older model once new models are released. Given the issues they have with the new models, the chances that they would spend any development time on an older model to fix such a bug (supposing it's not a hardware issue) is close to zero. Of course, I hope for you that I'm wrong.
Hmmm.
With driver 385.28 installed, the mapping level slider for the auto tone mapping is not there, at this point it only appears when I install an NVIDIA driver with the bogus metadata, does the slider appear.
I have only what is boxed in, in green when I install driver 385.28, and nothing else.
The red box only shows when I install a driver with bogus metadata, but I do have the option of switching what is in the green box.

When I use my Panasonic UB900 (not UB9000), the option in the red box is also gone.
Not sure what's going on.

Is it because the Panasonic player and the driver with the correct metadata is sending the right metadata, is the reason I don't have the option in the red box ?
I suppose in the end it doesn't really matter, but sometimes it would be nice to use the "auto tone mapping slider.

Maybe I need to upgrade the firmware on the projector for things to work properly.
I guess that's the next step.

https://forum.doom9.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=16848&d=1558249471

Manni

19th May 2019, 15:52

2019 models = new 4K native models
2018 models (and previous) = older eshift models (not native 4K).

Which model do you have?

With a 2019 RS2000, I don't have any of the issues you are mentioning and we have the same GPU. That's with the latest publicly available f/w (2.01), and Windows 10 Pro x64 1809.

It sounds like you are not sending passthrough, so the JVC isn't detecting HDR10. Make sure that you have enable the automatic HDR10 detection in the JVC and that the user mode selected has a PQ gamma selected..

All of this works fine with 385.28 (with 3D) or the latest 430.64 (no 3D).

Be careful when you install 385.28, windows will replace it at the next update with a slightly more recent driver. You have to roll that driver back, and then 385.28 will stay.

Jeff R 1

19th May 2019, 17:16

I need to update my firmware, and maybe that will solve the problem; I have a RS1000 _ should have mentioned that earlier. :o

I'm pretty sure it's switching to HDR, when I play a 4K UHD movie with MPC-HC and MadVR, the screen goes black for a moment and I can hear the projector adjusting things (I'm assuming the iris).
Plus when MPC-HC is not in full screen mode, the desk top is totally blown out and over saturated with colour indicating that the projector is in HDR mode.
At any rate I will make sure that the auto HDR detection mode on the JVC is turned on.

I'm running W10 Home edition x64 1809.

And about the Windows auto driver update.
Type in "Control Panel" in search and look for "System" in the old control panel.
Go to "Advanced System Settings" in the left pain.
In that window, click on "Hardware" and then "Device Installation Settings"
Click on "NO" in that box to keep Windows from updating any drivers.

Thanks !
I will report back.

Manni

19th May 2019, 19:58

And about the Windows auto driver update.
Type in "Control Panel" in search and look for "System" in the old control panel.
Go to "Advanced System Settings" in the left pain.
In that window, click on "Hardware" and then "Device Installation Settings"
Click on "NO" in that box to keep Windows from updating any drivers.

That doesn't work here.

Even asking CRU not to update the driver doesn't work here.

But after asking the roll-back, it stays at 385.28.

I'm testing 430.64 at the moment to see if I can live with it.

SamuriHL

19th May 2019, 22:09

Manni

19th May 2019, 22:17

I've got 430.64 stable on my 2070 so far. It seems like nVidia hasn't broken anything since they released the useful fixes in the first 430.xx driver for us. I'm using windowed mode and it's working quite well for me.

Yeah, if they hadn't axed 3D mvc support it would be close to perfect. I guess with an RTX you don't have much of a choice, especially if you want HDR passthough. We have more options with GTX GPUs.

Jeff R 1

19th May 2019, 22:47

SamuriHL

19th May 2019, 23:18

Yeah, if they hadn't axed 3D mvc support it would be close to perfect. I guess with an RTX you don't have much of a choice, especially if you want HDR passthough. We have more options with GTX GPUs.

I plan on rebuilding my 3770k with the 1060 (with far less ram given the mobo issue) to watch 3D on my old plasma screen. With that one obviously I'm going to have the same kinds of issues you're facing and have to use an old driver. I'll get there.

Manni

20th May 2019, 08:25

Updated the firmware on the JVC to 2.01 and that didn't solve the colour space problem when everything is pink and green, I'm not even sure if that update was supposed to fix that ?

Still have the problem with the HDR slider not appearing, not sure what to do, maybe contact JVC.
You can see in the screen shots that it is in HDR mode, but in the Gamma window the Max CLL/Max Fall is blank ???

In this case I'm using my Panasonic UB900.
Resetting the Panasonic and the JVC back to factory specs, doesn't solve the problem.

You're clearly not sending HDR (unless you're using a disk without metadata to test, the slider only appears when the title contains valid metadata, many of them don't). Also you can't post pictures here, it takes ages for approval.

You need to set colorspace to auto in the JVC, or not use 12bits output in the source (due to a forced YCC 422 colorspace bug in the JVCs when using YCC 444 or RGB 12bits).

This is getting off topic here if you have the issue even with a UB900, you should ask in a JVC owner's thread. Click on the rs2000 link in my sig (calibration thread for 2019 models) and we'll sort it out there.

Jeff R 1

20th May 2019, 09:12

You're clearly not sending HDR (unless you're using a disk without metadata to test, the slider only appears when the title contains valid metadata, many of them don't). Also you can't post pictures here, it takes ages for approval.

You need to set colorspace to auto in the JVC, or not use 12bits output in the source (due to a forced YCC 422 colorspace bug in the JVCs when using YCC 444 or RGB 12bits).

This is getting off topic here if you have the issue even with a UB900, you should ask in a JVC owner's thread. Click on the rs2000 link in my sig (calibration thread for 2019 models) and we'll sort it out there.
So what is a disc that has meta data, I know the ones from Disney don't, do you know of any that have for sure, eg "Life Of Pi" maybe ?

I have my colour space in the NVIDIA control panel set to 12bit and the JVC is set to auto colour space.
I also have RGB and 0-255 range in the NVIDIA control panel as well.

I can see my own photos, but others can't _ that's silly.

In one of the photos it shows that the JVC has indeed switched to HDR.

It lists under Info.
Colour Space YUV
Colourimetry BT.2020
HDR HDR10 (ST.2084)

When I exit MPC-HC it lists HDR as SDR _ it switches back as it's supposed too.

I'll try some different discs.

Thanks !

Manni

20th May 2019, 10:22

So what is a disc that has meta data, I know the ones from Disney don't, do you know of any that have for sure, eg "Life Of Pi" maybe ?

I have my colour space in the NVIDIA control panel set to 12bit and the JVC is set to auto colour space.
I also have RGB and 0-255 range in the NVIDIA control panel as well.

I can see my own photos, but others can't _ that's silly.

In one of the photos it shows that the JVC has indeed switched to HDR.

It lists under Info.
Colour Space YUV
Colourimetry BT.2020
HDR HDR10 (ST.2084)

When I exit MPC-HC it lists HDR as SDR _ it switches back as it's supposed too.

I'll try some different discs.

Thanks !

As I said, it's off topic here given that you have this issue with a UB900 standalone player. It's only confusing to keep posting here. Post in one of the JVC owners' thread (as it's not HTPC related), or if you want me to help you, in the calibration thread linked in my sig where you can post pictures, and we'll take it from there. Life of Pi has no metadata in the US/UK (but some in Germany). Use any Sony title to be sure (Lucy, The Shallows...).

Jeff R 1

20th May 2019, 18:08

As I said, it's off topic here given that you have this issue with a UB900 standalone player. It's only confusing to keep posting here. Post in one of the JVC owners' thread (as it's not HTPC related), or if you want me to help you, in the calibration thread linked in my sig where you can post pictures, and we'll take it from there. Life of Pi has no metadata in the US/UK (but some in Germany). Use any Sony title to be sure (Lucy, The Shallows...).
It's not off topic, I mentioned the UB900 in one post all the rest are to do with my 1080i video card, my HTPC and why the slider only appears when I use a borked NVIDIA driver _ that was the original issue.

Please answer this question, if a disc has no meta data to send to the HTPC, then where is the borked NVIDIA driver getting it from ?
Or I suppose that is the problem with those drivers, they're creating meta data out of thin air...

I will play Lucy and see.

Here's a link to the photo's.
https://discuss.avscience.com/index.php?topic=1850.msg12603#msg12603

The first two photos show no meta data when using a driver when the correct meta data is present, this assumes it's normal since many discs don't have the meta data ?

The last photo shows what it looks like when I use one of the borked drivers, and this also pertains to the question above.

Manni

20th May 2019, 19:34

It's not off topic, I mentioned the UB900 in one post all the rest are to do with my 1080i video card, my HTPC and why the slider only appears when I use a borked NVIDIA driver _ that was the original issue.

Please answer this question, if a disc has no meta data to send to the HTPC, then where is the borked NVIDIA driver getting it from ?
Or I suppose that is the problem with those drivers, they're creating meta data out of thin air...

I will play Lucy and see.

Here's a link to the photo's.
https://discuss.avscience.com/index.php?topic=1850.msg12603#msg12603

The first two photos show no meta data when using a driver when the correct meta data is present, this assumes it's normal since many discs don't have the meta data ?

The last photo shows what it looks like when I use one of the borked drivers, and this also pertains to the question above.

Yes the borked drivers invent this metadata when not present, or replace the valid one when present. It's the same for all the disks, whether they have metadata or not. That's why and how they are borked. If you don't have this issue with the UB900, then you have no issue. Please don't post in two different thread about the same issue, that's even more confusing.

Jeff R 1

20th May 2019, 21:22

Yes the borked drivers invent this metadata when not present, or replace the valid one when present. It's the same for all the disks, whether they have metadata or not. That's why and how they are borked. If you don't have this issue with the UB900, then you have no issue. Please don't post in two different thread about the same issue, that's even more confusing.
See this thread where I posted some more photos with Lucy.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/46-post-testing-area/3068564-jeff-s-photo-thread.html#post58074788

The problem was me not understanding what was specifically going on with the borked NVIDIA drivers.

And to answer you question in the other forum, the other movies that don't have any meta date are: "Life Of Pi" (Canadian Version), "Thor Ragnarok" (Canadian version) and "The Kid Who Would Be King" (US Version)

The last photo where the "slider" appears was just a simple screen shot from the manual to show a point of reference, it does not represent any disc. It was simply to show that the slider was missing from the other two photos

For anyone else that has just come here and seen this post, here is the link to the other forum where my photos are posted.

https://discuss.avscience.com/index.php?topic=1850.msg12603#msg12603

Thanks for you patience Manni !

SoySauceWDF

27th May 2019, 03:55

Anyone still experiencing stuttering after applying the NVInspector fix on RTX cards? A/V Sync issues as well? RTX 2080 ti, most recent driver (430.64), madvr, MPC-HC.

videoh

27th May 2019, 04:20

What is the "NVInspector fix"? Thank you.

huhn

27th May 2019, 04:47

it helps some turing user that have problem with madVR and stuttering where the madVR OSD doesn't notice anything at all.

it pretty much enables/forces vsync for mpc-hc(which doesn't make any sense but it works so...) changes the power saving setting to adaptive and a setting for optimus system so the nvidia card is used instead of the igpu. at least that's what i remember from it.

AFAIK clsid is behind that profile.

videoh

27th May 2019, 12:10

Where does one get this "fix"?

clsid

27th May 2019, 12:44

Here: nvidia profile for mpc (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1871970#post1871970)

videoh

27th May 2019, 14:07

Thank you!

SamuriHL

27th May 2019, 14:36

I made the same changes to my main profile manually and it seems to work for me on my 2070. I'm using windowed mode in madvr.

Klaus1189

27th May 2019, 17:15

Nvidia released 430.86.

SamuriHL

27th May 2019, 18:09

Oh god let's see what they broke now...er, I mean, oh yey! :D

Jeff R 1

27th May 2019, 21:02

According to this, still no 3D and no more 32bit OS support.
If one isn't gaming, why bother with any of these new drivers ?
I suppose it's part of the hobby bordering on the verge of obsetion and curiosity.

https://us.download.nvidia.com/Windows/430.86/430.86-win10-win8-win7-release-notes.pdf

nevcairiel

27th May 2019, 21:24

32-bit support was canceled a long time ago already. And 3D is not going to come back, they have said as much.

Asmodian

27th May 2019, 23:12

The new 430.86 drivers work well for me with my 2080 Ti. Still only 8 bit for custom resolutions but HDR works properly with both 8 and 10 bit. Also madVR's custom resolution tool works.

ryrynz

28th May 2019, 01:15

Am wondering if anyone can get these or any other 400 series drivers working with madVR custom res on the 10 series cards.

SamuriHL

28th May 2019, 02:20

nevcairiel

28th May 2019, 08:25

I'm actually wondering what nVidia's long game is with these drivers. They're releasing both the game and studio drivers. So far they're identical but clearly they plan on diverging them. It'll be interesting to see which series of driver ends up being best for us in the HTPC world.

I don't think they plan on diverging them. Its just a marketing thing. Studio drivers come out less frequently and focus on stability and fixes for creator tools, while Game Ready drivers come out more frequently for game improvements - but when they do come out, they just contain the same stuff.

chros

28th May 2019, 10:32

I just tried out a quadro driver (385.69 (https://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/123914/en-us) that is close to 385.28) during the weekend hoping for 10 bit output, since somebody mentioned this:
- still no luck with the LG B8, there's only 8 or 12 bits selection.

So I wonder, maybe the display reports 8/10/12 bits and nvidia driver automatically offers the 10 bit. Who knows ... :)

clsid

28th May 2019, 11:31

You don't need quadro driver for high bitdepth output.

Using 10bit has no advantage over 12bit output, and is also not possible.

SamuriHL

28th May 2019, 11:44

I don't think they plan on diverging them. Its just a marketing thing. Studio drivers come out less frequently and focus on stability and fixes for creator tools, while Game Ready drivers come out more frequently for game improvements - but when they do come out, they just contain the same stuff.That would be disappointing. I was hoping that the studio drivers would focus on the things that are important for video and not break those things like the game drivers tend to do. But maybe that's far too optimistic. Sigh.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

chros

28th May 2019, 15:26

Using 10bit has no advantage over 12bit output, and is also not possible.
Thanks, and do you know why it is impossible with nvidia drivers?
I wanted to experiment with banding on my display.

Warner306

28th May 2019, 22:49

It isn't impossible. Nvidia simply reverts to the highest supported bit depth reported by the display.

chros

29th May 2019, 09:51

It isn't impossible. Nvidia simply reverts to the highest supported bit depth reported by the display.
Thanks, that's what I think as well. Has anyone tried to modify this EDID entry with CRU? If so, how?
(Once again, I'm just curious whether there's a difference between 10 vs 12 bits output using the given setup.)

oldpainlesskodi

29th May 2019, 10:13

Thanks, that's what I think as well. Has anyone tried to modify this EDID entry with CRU? If so, how?
(Once again, I'm just curious whether there's a difference between 10 vs 12 bits output using the given setup.)

I could only get 10bit by using a displayport to HDMI adapter, so I would be curious to see if someone can get it working over hdmi - I'm not aware it has been done though.

chros

29th May 2019, 12:35

I could only get 10bit by using a displayport to HDMI adapter
Quadro or normal driver? Did you notice any improvement?

oldpainlesskodi

29th May 2019, 12:55

Quadro or normal driver? Did you notice any improvement?

Tried both, and none that I could see over 12 bit. Also, on my 1080, I cant seem to use any of the WDDM 2.6 drivers without getting insane banding, regardless of my settings, so I am on driver 425.31 until I/someone gets to the bottom of the issue.

clsid

29th May 2019, 13:08

Does 8bit output give you banding?
The native bitdepth of the screen is usually lower than what it accepts as input. If it does crappy conversion without dithering it can result in banding. madVR has an option to specify the native bitdepth.

oldpainlesskodi

29th May 2019, 13:14

It's happens with any WDDM 2.6 driver with the latest version on windows for me. It was fine before the Win update, now if I use wddm 2.6 I get banding with any bit depth.

On wddm 2.5, it's fine. My panel is a true 10bit panel, so I dont get banding (that I have seen) sending either 8bit dithered, or 12bit.

As an example, Spears_Munsil_Quantazation_Test_2160p.mp4 is a rainbow mess of banding using wddm 2.6, but on wddm 2.5, it looks as it should, with the 8bit (left hand side) window showing more banding steps.

chros

29th May 2019, 17:17

I could only get 10bit by using a displayport to HDMI adapter, so I would be curious to see if someone can get it working over hdmi - I'm not aware it has been done though.
Hmm... Maybe this way (https://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU?pid=8763#pid8763)? :) (I haven't tried it yet.)

Does 8bit output give you banding?
Yes, using PC mode on LG B8, even in SDR mode, but HDR mode is truly something :)

The native bitdepth of the screen is usually lower than what it accepts as input.
You are right, it suppose to have 10 bit native, but it supports 12 bit (also madvr reports it based on the EDID info).
If it does crappy conversion without dithering it can result in banding.
Yes, that's the case: almost all the image processing is disabled in the chip of the TV. That's why I'm curious what we can do about it (still using PC mode to get chroma 4:4:4).
madVR has an option to specify the native bitdepth.
Yes, I've set it to "10 bit or more", nvidia display driver only allows 12 bit.
That's where the idea came from, maybe ...

Or maybe enabling dithering in nvidia driver (https://hub.displaycal.net/forums/topic/how-to-enable-dithering-on-nvidia-geforce-with-windows-os/)? :)

huhn

29th May 2019, 17:45

if the bit input is higher then the output bit deep nvidia is dithering by default. and everything else doesn't really apply to madVR.

this is super easy to test and it clearly works with full range too...
there are other situation where this reg edit may help but i can't see one for madVR.

the bit 12 situation is a dumb limitation on nvidia but if you get banding at 8 bit then 10 bit is very very very unlikely to help at all specially if 12 bit doesn't help. if the end device has a bad conversations(as they usually have) only 8 bit should help because it is a lot harder to add banding to a 8 bit dithered image compared to a 10 or 12 bit dithered image.

oldpainlesskodi

29th May 2019, 18:01

Hmm... Maybe this way (https://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU?pid=8763#pid8763)? :) (I haven't tried it yet.)

Never seen it work myself, so look forward to your method :)

Or maybe enabling dithering in nvidia driver (https://hub.displaycal.net/forums/topic/how-to-enable-dithering-on-nvidia-geforce-with-windows-os/)? :)

Yep, if you go onto the nvidia forum, you'll notice people basically saying in the latest version of windows with a wddm 2.6 driver its busted and no longer works.

See here: https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1082681/geforce-drivers/is-it-possible-to-quot-port-quot-dithering-from-nvidia-x-server-to-geforce-driver-/23/

And, there is an easier way to add dithering, try this app :

https://jmp.sh/NGf7DJj

the settings I use are 1 (enable) 2 (10bit) 4 (temporal). Then use task manger to kill, and vola...done

You can check by opening up regedit and going to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\nvlddmkm\State\DisplayDatabase/your driver (in my case 07e0_ed) and its all done (the app has added DitherRegistryKey).

Still seems its borked with wddm 2.6 and the latest win10 version though.

Update:

one other observation. In device manager, using wddm 2.5 it picks up my display as generic pnp monitor. Using wddm 2.6, it actually detects my Samsung 8 Series, so something is clearly wrong, maybe with the way it reads the Edid under 2.6 perhaps.

janos666

29th May 2019, 23:24

It's happens with any WDDM 2.6 driver with the latest version on windows for me. It was fine before the Win update, now if I use wddm 2.6 I get banding with any bit depth.

Ah! I guess this is what I uncovered today. I suspected it will turn out to be a Win10 1903 / nVidia 430.x driver issue. (Although I guess we should check this with and AMD card as well, could still be Microsoft's fault.)
400.39 is already WDDM 2.6 and that's the first in the 400 series to fix the metadata bug. I don't see myself downgrading to 398.11 now because I also play some games on this PC (both new and old, randomly).

chros

30th May 2019, 11:21

I don't see myself downgrading to 398.11 now because I also play some games on this PC
398.11 wouldn't be enough: it blocks the usage of custom resolutions, even using CRU. So, you'd need go back to 385.28.

@Klaus1189, can you remove this line from the nvidia summary section, until someone definitely confirms it?
"If you want to use newer driver versions, you need CRU for custom refresh rates."

And, there is an easier way to add dithering, try this app : https://jmp.sh/NGf7DJj
the settings I use are 1 (enable) 2 (10bit) 4 (temporal). Then use task manger to kill, and vola...done

You can check by opening up regedit and going to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\nvlddmkm\State\DisplayDatabase/your driver (in my case 07e0_ed) and its all done (the app has added DitherRegistryKey).
Nice, although it doesn't work on my system (see my signature) :) There's no "State" in the mentioned registry path.

I applied the hack manually but I didn't notice anything different at all.

I could only get 10bit by using a displayport to HDMI adapter, so I would be curious to see if someone can get it working over hdmi - I'm not aware it has been done though.

I gave it a try but no luck so far (https://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU?pid=8850#pid8850).

Maybe I'll try the quadro driver one more time with the CRU EDID hack.

Otherwise @clsid will be right :)

if you get banding at 8 bit then 10 bit is very very very unlikely to help at all ... if the end device has a bad conversations ...
It does in PC mode, since almost all the image processing are disabled.
You're right in theory, but we can only be certain if we manage to test it, but until I won't get 10bit option ... :)

Klaus1189

30th May 2019, 11:28

chros
Done.

all
I need info for the last three Nvidia drivers: Should I remove a point or can anybody confirm anything of it? I need to clean it up.

huhn

30th May 2019, 13:35

It does in PC mode, since almost all the image processing are disabled.
You're right in theory, but we can only be certain if we manage to test it, but until I won't get 10bit option ... :)

that'S not how this works... even more in the context trying nvidia to use dither even through there is nothing to dither with madVR and correct settings.

and if you want to test 10 bit use an old AMD card.

clsid

30th May 2019, 14:10

If problems only occur with specific driver version then they need to be reported here:
https://forums.geforce.com/default/board/33/

janos666

30th May 2019, 15:41

I hooked up my AMD 2500U Ryzen+Vega notebook to the LG C8 TV (same Win10 18362.145 build, same HDMI4 port on the TV, same cable, etc) using the latest AMD driver (19.5.2).
The 10bit 1000nit HDR10 gray-ramp test video (Mechanic set) looks virtually the same between 8, 10 and 12 bit Full RGB settings (it seems as if the switch doesn't really operate at all but remains stuck at 8bit, even though both the AMD control panel and Windows Settings confirm the change). Using YCC yields very similar results (it's a little bit worse, as expected, but nothing crazy). Limited RGB passed to the TV inside Full RGB (madVR set to Limited, TV set to Limited, GPU set to Full) is also roughly the same.
madVR's own dithering seems to make no obvious visible difference. I guess that's because it automatically dithers to 10bit while the real output is erroneously converted (truncated/rounded) to 8bit at some point.
These AMD results look "somewhat acceptable". It's clearly much better than the nVidia results. Although the TV's internal player yields substantially better results.

So, I guess this is Microsoft's fault (the new Win10 build / WDDM version broke some display driver functionality, as is tradition since ~2017) and the AMD driver/hardware simply does a little better job with that unwanted 10bit -> 8bit conversion than nVidia (it probably happens in better precision and/or finished with better dithering --- probably because dithering is always on for AMD but the nVidia driver has no reason to activate it for the 12bit output setting [it probably has no way to know what's going on in actual reality with this bug]).

I am sure this bug wasn't there a month ago because I used this notebook to calibrate the HDR Game mode and it looks fine with the TV's internal player. I guess the calibrated results would be all over the place with the internal player if all this banding and random colorization was present (nVidia has more luminance errors and "blocks", AMD has more magenta/cyan colorization all over the gray gradient).

chros

30th May 2019, 16:24

I hooked up my AMD 2500U Ryzen+Vega notebook to the LG C8 TV (same Win10 18362.145 build, same HDMI4 port on the TV, same cable, etc) using the latest AMD driver (19.5.2).

Thanks for testing with an AMD card.
Which mode of the TV did you test? Normal (HDMI) or PC mode?

The 10bit 1000nit HDR10 gray-ramp test video (Mechanic set) looks virtually the same between 8, 10 and 12 bit Full RGB settings (it seems as if the switch doesn't really operate at all but remains stuck at 8bit, even though both the AMD control panel and Windows Settings confirm the change).

Is it the same with the nvidia HTPC as well? Or you can clearly tell the difference with it between 8bit vs 12bit?
I can on my system.

So, I guess this is Microsoft's fault (the new Win10 build / WDDM version broke some display driver functionality, as is tradition since ~2017) ...
I am sure this bug wasn't there a month ago because I used this notebook to calibrate the HDR Game mode and it looks fine with the TV's internal player.

Hmm, interesting.

iSeries

30th May 2019, 16:59

398.11 wouldn't be enough: it blocks the usage of custom resolutions, even using CRU. So, you'd need go back to 385.28.

Custom res works fine for me on all drivers past 385.28 with both madVR and CRU. After a certain driver (can't remember which one) madVR is only able to create 8bit custom res, but CRU is still able to create 8/12bit custom res.

Also with my LG C8, PC mode is clearly worse than non-PC mode (banding), and 12bit output from nVidia is clearly worse on my TV than dithered 8bit from madVR (again, banding). I wouldn't use either.

chros

30th May 2019, 17:17

Custom res works fine for me on all drivers past 385.28 with both madVR and CRU. After a certain driver (can't remember which one) madVR is only able to create 8bit custom res, but CRU is still able to create 8/12bit custom res.
Thanks, I also could create them with CRU but madVR couldn't utilise them (fallback to the native 23Hz). And I wasn't the only one. Have you checked madVR's OSD to verify it?

Also with my LG C8, PC mode is clearly worse than non-PC mode (banding), and 12bit output from nVidia is clearly worse on my TV than dithered 8bit from madVR (again, banding). I wouldn't use either.
Yep, you're right, but you get chroma 4:4:4 in return. Something for something ...

janos666

30th May 2019, 17:50

Thanks for testing with an AMD card.
Which mode of the TV did you test? Normal (HDMI) or PC mode?

HDMI label, of course.
Although, if my memory serves, even the PC mode HDR10 should look better when fed with real 10bit than what I now get with the nVidia card (PC mode used to be roughly somewhere between actual 8 [not dithered] and actual 10 bit [not truncated] with the HDMI label when things were normal).
Actually, I started investigating after I noticed some incredibly bad banding in PC mode. I always knew PC mode had reduced precision but it wasn't this bad. Now the input already has some banding and tinting which is only made worse by PC mode, making it unusually bad (not just a hard compromise for 4:4:4 in HDR10 games but "WTF!?%" bad...).

By the way, there should be no difference between 10 and 12bit HDMI output formats since the buffer is either 8, 10 or 16 bit. I am not aware if any software uses 16 bit today (and let the GPU dither/truncate it to "whatever the output is"), so technically the conversion from 10bit to 12bit (by the GPU) and any sane truncating/rounding from 12bit to 10bit (by the TV's processor - IF there is any) should be completely lossless (in worst case it might activates unnecessary dithering but even that should be virtually unnoticeable but I think the TV's processor can take 12bit without truncating it first, especially since it supports 12bit DolbyVision, so there should be no difference between setting the GPU to 10 or 12bit, I guess that's exactly why nVidia decided to remove the redundant options - too bad they have no "automatic maximum" option and the NVCP keeps randomly forgetting the 12bit selection for lower resolutions/refreshrates).

iSeries

30th May 2019, 19:15

Thanks, I also could create them with CRU but madVR couldn't utilise them (fallback to the native 23Hz). And I wasn't the only one. Have you checked madVR's OSD to verify it?

Yep, you're right, but you get chroma 4:4:4 in return. Something for something ...

4:4:4 in exchange for horrific banding to watch material that only had 4:2:0 to begin with ;-) I'd consider the picture worse overall.

For CRU - https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1868222&postcount=79

Asmodian

30th May 2019, 19:58

On my C9 banding is not an issue as long as the GPU didn't need to do a bit depth conversion. I get good results using 8 or 12 bit full range RGB output for SDR and HDR. I still end up using 8 bit all the time, I don't notice 12 bit being an improvement but it at least it isn't a negative anymore.

If I send 10 bit from madVR and have the GPU convert to full range 8 bit RGB I do get obvious banding but if I set the GPU to limited range or 12 bit it is fine. It looks like a dithering issue (or lack thereof) when using full range output. :mad::(

2080 Ti, 430.86, Win 10 1903.

huhn

30th May 2019, 20:04

try that again with FSE.

10 bit windowed with 8 bit GPU is known to be broken.

Asmodian

30th May 2019, 20:15

Exclusive looks the same, it really seems like the GPU does not dither when converting 10 to 8 bit. :(

Klaus1189

30th May 2019, 20:36

Can you post links to testfiles for banding issues so I can test here?

huhn

30th May 2019, 20:55

i tested windows 18343 with 430.86.

FSE doesn't work
old FSE banding
d3d overlay as always working perfectly.
WFS banding

i'm talking about over 1 cm width banding on an 24 zoll screen!
his has nothing do do with dithering just to make that clear.

10 bit:
~same 1 cm banding
WFS just more banding dithering related
FSE banding not dithering related edit: done with the compatibility mode FSE.

i will test another system with an 2018 build later and update the insider build on this system to a newer one if there is one.

huhn

30th May 2019, 20:55

http://www.bealecorner.org/red/test-patterns/Gradient-16bit.png

wait 30 sec between post got me:-)

oldpainlesskodi

30th May 2019, 21:24

i tested windows 18343 with 430.86.

FSE doesn't work
old FSE banding
d3d overlay as always working perfectly.
WFS banding

i'm talking about over 1 cm width banding on an 24 zoll screen!
his has nothing do do with dithering just to make that clear.

10 bit:
~same 1 cm banding
WFS just more banding dithering related
FSE banding not dithering related

i will test another system with an 2018 build later and update the insider build on this system to a newer one if there is one.

Yep its nuts, but seems fine using a wddm 2.5 driver (on my setup anyway) using build win10 1903 - 18898.1000

huhn

30th May 2019, 21:51

windows 17763 nvidia 430.86
10 bit WFS with the GPU at 8bit shows banding as always FSE is fine.
so the driver alone isn't the problem.
i wait for klaus for now but i can in theory test AMD too but i really don't want to replace hardware.

i have to add more informations to my insider test i used later the "original" FSE because the new one didn't work it's just saying in WFS and flickers from time to time.

Klaus1189

30th May 2019, 22:03

Perhaps stupid question but when is banding considered as an issue? Of course not 1cm here on a bigger monitor, but I need to know how far according the screen diameter I have to look at. Other things that are important to check?

huhn

30th May 2019, 22:22

fine: https://abload.de/img/finejikv2.png
banding from not dithering: https://abload.de/img/notditheredtojjj.png

the banding from not using dither is "always" the same. or with other words the step distance should always be the same.

oldpainlesskodi

30th May 2019, 22:27

The Spears_Munsil_Quantazation_Test_2160p.mp4 file is always very useful.

Here is a copy if anyone wants it:

https://jmp.sh/BzseoJO

With a wddm 2.5 driver, you get small banding at 12bit/8bit dithered on the 8bit plane (left window), and smoother on the 10bit plan (right window), however, using a wddm 2.6 driver on the latest win10, I get Rainbow bands, as Hunn described, about 1/2 inch wide on my 55 inch display, on both planes at any bit depth output, or range, FSE or WFS.

huhn

31st May 2019, 05:46

windows 18908 with 430.86 same issues.
if i have to point to somethign with no prove it would be the new super wet ink feature.

what so ever i have no clue why this should be related to dithering.

oldpainlesskodi

31st May 2019, 09:23

MS just pushed out 18908 on fastring - was hopeful, but......

Back to wddm 2.5 it is then.

Klaus1189

31st May 2019, 09:47

I checked with DxDiag and I have WDDM 2.6 and see banding, at least I think. I must admit I am not super sensitive to it, so to get conclusions a videophil guy must do that, I am sensitive to motion, but that is another story.
Perhaps I can learn, but on both screenshots I see banding, despite the notdithered has small steps visible, but both have wide areas which look not good, wehn watched 1:1 pixel scaled in browser.

And another starange thing, if I want to select 4:2:0 10 bit in Radeon 19.5.2 it jumps back to 4:4:4 8 bit, but if I play a file and check Radeon driver 4:2:0 10 bit is active, dispite I didn't selected it.
Not happy with 1903, but I am diggin...

I put the testfiles on an USB device and playing it with internal player and I see steps also here. I played Gradient-2k.mp4

chros

31st May 2019, 11:17

By the way, there should be no difference between 10 and 12bit HDMI output formats since the buffer is either 8, 10 or 16 bit. I am not aware if any software uses 16 bit today
MadVR works 16bit internally, if I'm not mistaken.

and any sane truncating/rounding from 12bit to 10bit (by the TV's processor - IF there is any)
That's my point (using PC mode).
I also checked normal mode, see below ...

NVCP keeps randomly forgetting the 12bit selection for lower resolutions/refreshrates).
Really? :)

On my C9 banding is not an issue as long as the GPU didn't need to do a bit depth conversion.
Have you tried PC mode as well on C9? I wonder about the difference between previous generation (C8).

try that again with FSE.
Just tested this on my config yesterday in normal mode (non-PC):
- FSW has more banding (?) or lack of dithering (?), but when I move the mouse to the bottom of the screen - to make the control bar visible - then the problem disappears (I remember when you first noticed this)
-- even the best case has major banding on the screen at the darker part
-- 8bit vs 12bit has just a slight difference
- FSE looks like FSW when the playback control is visible
-- it has major banding on the screen at the darker part

But FSE is unusable for me: HDR mode gets stuck on the GPU (hence on the TV) when I load an SDR video into MPC-BE after an HDR one :) (restart64.exe of CRU randomly solves the issue, reboot does all the time.)

So, in summary, my only real option is FSW, using PC mode, and there's only a slight difference between 8bit vs 12bit in real SDR content, although HDR content shows a bit more difference.

Can you post links to testfiles for banding issues so I can test here?
- sdr gradient: AVS HD 709 - mp4 version (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibration/948496-avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration.html) - Misc pattern - A-Additional - 1-Grayscale Ramp
- hdr gradients: Mehanik HDR10 (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibration/2943380-hdr10-test-patterns-set.html) - 03. Grayscale - 3.1. Grayscale ramps - and 1;2;5 are useful

What display do you have? Does it support HDR?

And another starange thing, if I want to select 4:2:0 10 bit in Radeon 19.5.2 it jumps back to 4:4:4 8 bit, but if I play a file and check Radeon driver 4:2:0 10 bit is active, dispite I didn't selected it.
Have you selected lower refresh rates as well, e.g. 30Hz?

Klaus1189

31st May 2019, 11:36

Have you selected lower refresh rates as well, e.g. 30Hz?

I tried it just now and then 4:2:0 is missing completely in the drop down list :confused:

nevcairiel

31st May 2019, 12:05

MadVR works 16bit internally, if I'm not mistaken.

Internally, yes, but it does not send 16-bit to the output, because while you can use many more formats internally for processing, for output only a small subset of formats are supported, and the only 16-bit format is ... weird.

So madVR will always give 8-bit or 10-bit to the OS/Driver for output.

ashlar42

31st May 2019, 14:33

See here: https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1082681/geforce-drivers/is-it-possible-to-quot-port-quot-dithering-from-nvidia-x-server-to-geforce-driver-/23/

And, there is an easier way to add dithering, try this app :

https://jmp.sh/NGf7DJj

the settings I use are 1 (enable) 2 (10bit) 4 (temporal). Then use task manger to kill, and vola...done

You can check by opening up regedit and going to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\nvlddmkm\State\DisplayDatabase/your driver (in my case 07e0_ed) and its all done (the app has added DitherRegistryKey).How would this dithering function interact with madVR dithering?

In my future I see an OLED TV, which I understand works better if the input is 8 bit, dithered by madVR. What would the above settings get me if outputting 8 bit? I would use 1, 1 and 4 but... would it make sense?

oldpainlesskodi

31st May 2019, 14:53

Good question - it could be that Madvr bypasses any driver dithering, I dont know.

Maybe Nev or Madshi could shed some light.

I think all I can say, is that myself, and a number of others, are having issues with, what looks like wwdm 2.6 drivers (nvidia) and some of latest versions of windows 10.

huhn

31st May 2019, 16:31

Just tested this on my config yesterday in normal mode (non-PC):
- FSW has more banding (?) or lack of dithering (?), but when I move the mouse to the bottom of the screen - to make the control bar visible - then the problem disappears (I remember when you first noticed this)
-- even the best case has major banding on the screen at the darker part
-- 8bit vs 12bit has just a slight difference
- FSE looks like FSW when the playback control is visible

we are testing if the nvidia driver dither or not so you have to make sure you are sending 8 bit with the GPU driver. because if you want to test GPU dithering you have to remove the viable of the end device.

you can't dither something that doesn't need dithering.
so yes madVR "bypasses" dithering if you like to say or better if you want your software to dither do it yourself and don't trust a GPU doing it for you because it doesn't have to heck it could even be considered to be wrong.

and most important right now the WDDM 2.6 related banding is not dithering related dither or not dithering will not do something like that.

huhn

31st May 2019, 16:58

edit: checking the same screen on a different PC.
edit2: nothing on a different PC so it doesn't matter what displays it and the issue is created at presentation or after i tested 2 different screen on the source PC so no both are not broken after the windows update. so it doesn't effect rendering which is good i guess.

the issue can be seen with screenshoots.
alt print: https://abload.de/img/screenshootofthebandiktj4f.png
madVR screenshoot function: https://abload.de/img/gradient-16bit.png_snpjjh4.png

oldpainlesskodi

1st June 2019, 16:36

Just tried the new Nvidia 435.27 driver....same 'ol same 'ol. Back to wddm 2.5....sigh.

If anyone wants it:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/pb67ea28aadwnf7/Nvidia+435.27.rar

huhn

1st June 2019, 19:57

can you make sure overlay avoids the issue for you too?
there is sadly a chance that nvidia has nothing todo with that issue...

janos666

2nd June 2019, 01:07

I went back to 425.31 (Windows remains 18362.145) to compare the HDR10 1000 nit gray gradients. It's a lot better but the TV's internal player still gives me a distinctly better looking result. I can't remember if I ever compared them like this before. So, I wonder if there is still some small quality issue with this Windows build (independent of driver WDDM version) or these slightly older drivers (an older, small bug) or LG's player applies some sneaky de-banding on it's own volition (independently of the user controllable de-banding feature in the picture settings which can be turned off for both HDMI and internal sources). May be I should try 398.11 after all.

By the way... Was 398.11 thoroughly tested with HDR10? I remember 378.92 being the first and only driver for a long time which allowed a Frotbite3 games (like ME:Andromeda) to work in DolbyVision mode and some nV rep later claimed DolbyVision was broken by this same metadata bug (which resulted in a black screen in case of DV). Although, I remember DolbyVision started working temporarily with some (390? or) 400-series drivers (at least partially because the screen still turned black after closing the game but was playable in DV) until something broke it yet again (and eventually got fixed with the WDDM 2.6 / 430-series, though the screen still turns black after exiting from DV). So I am not sure these 380-410 series drivers are fully bug free either (since DV was broken for a long time with many of these).

I checked 378.92 and it's full of banding as well, similar to 430.86.:mad:
And this bug is not limited to madVR, HDR10 games also look better with 425.31 (the PC mode of my TV highlights the issue and it's easy to observe on the transparent effects of the game menu and HUD elements - there is a lot of magenta tinting on gray shades with 430.xx).

oldpainlesskodi

2nd June 2019, 07:47

can you make sure overlay avoids the issue for you too?
there is sadly a chance that nvidia has nothing todo with that issue...

Can you explain what you mean? Do you mean enable windowed overlay in Madvr?

Asmodian

2nd June 2019, 08:24

Yes, Windowed Overlay skips much of the WDM so it is an interesting test.

oldpainlesskodi

2nd June 2019, 08:48

Ok thanks, will take a look.

Update - unfortunately, it made no difference on my setup. Back to 425.31.

Oh well.

huhn

2nd June 2019, 13:09

did you make sure that stuff like d3d11 and FSE are disabled while testing with overlay?

oldpainlesskodi

2nd June 2019, 13:30

did you make sure that stuff like d3d11 and FSE are disabled while testing with overlay?

No, will give it a try.

I also get it using MPC-Hc using stock EVR too. wddm 2.5 if fine. Wddm 2.6, huge banding...but I think you are right, im not sure its a dithering error, there is something else going on.

Update - Looks like i'll be on wddm 2.5 for some time. Tried dx9 on 430.97 and had a black screen whist audio playing, and madvr said dx9 failed to render, or something along those lines.

I just don't get why its fine on 425.31 (or any wddm 2.5 driver), but borked on anything 43x.xx (wddm 2.6) my end - not that I really want to update from 425.31(especially the alanfox2000 version) , but you know what's it like....

janos666

2nd June 2019, 14:47

did you make sure that stuff like d3d11 and FSE are disabled while testing with overlay?

I didn't know the "overlay" required DX9. When I tried to enable it on an AMD machine (when it was new and didn't yet know what it really is) madVR clearly showed me a red warning message about how it's unsupported on the system. There is no warning like that when I enable it with DX11 (FSE needs to be disabled though because that takes priority otherwise). Can madVR even output 10bit without DX11, overlay or not? I though DX9 was practically limited to 8bit (may be there is some way but too quirky/complicated or needs proprietary extensions which were possible for DX9 but if I recall only AMD used something like that ... some 10+ years ago).

oldpainlesskodi

2nd June 2019, 15:38

"madVR clearly showed me a red warning message about how it's unsupported"

That's what I got on my nvidia card too.

j82k

2nd June 2019, 21:06

Just updated windows to 1903 and I'm having the same color banding issue. And yes disabling D3D11 and enabling overlay in madVR fixes it. My render times are about the same, so is there any disadvantage with d3d9 overlay compared to d3d11 non overlay?

huhn

2nd June 2019, 21:09

ehm how should i put this...

first of all AMD never supported d3d9 overlay hell even intel does support it but that's a different topic.
i have no clue why someone things 10 bit is of any important when testing this.
overlay is d3d9 only so if d3d11 is ticked it not used by madVR and it can't use it the OSD clearly tells you that by simply not saying d3d9 overlay same for FSE it a different render path you don't need a red error massage for everything.
pascal clearly supports overlay so...

oldpainlesskodi

2nd June 2019, 21:24

Ok will give it another try and make sure I set everything up correctly - will report back tomorrow, however, if it works, great, but its not a long term fix.

Edit - Hunn, which version of marvr are you using?

huhn

2nd June 2019, 22:13

current release version.

Asmodian

2nd June 2019, 22:54

Have you tried PC mode as well on C9? I wonder about the difference between previous generation (C8).

This is a complicated topic, I have tried to do a bunch of testing but do not feel like I can come to a definitive conclusion. :o

With that "don't take my word for it" out of the way... the small amount of banding that is present on my set does not seem to change depending on input type or PC/Game mode. It does move around if I change between PC and other HDMI modes but I do not think the magnitude increases any more. The difference between my C7 and my C9 is obvious.
Edit: I was running 8 bit D3D9 overlay for these tests, to try to remove any WDM issues, except for any 8 v.s. 10 bit tests, of course.

I have run autocal on the C9 via Calman and comparing non-calibrated modes to my calibrated ones with several banding test patterns also shows similar banding. Banding is also similar after a "full DCC reset" which seems to erase all color calibration for that mode, including the ones from the factory.

I probably gave the impression that there was no banding on my C9 with my previous comment but I should have said the banding wasn't any worse with 10 bit input. Just the normal (:mad:) minor banding similar to what my C7 has in its best (for banding) mode.

huhn

3rd June 2019, 00:42

you at least gave me the impression that they fixed the banding issue with the 2019 re-release

Asmodian

3rd June 2019, 01:31

Yeah, sorry. :o

It is still not perfect but it is better in 4:4:4 full range. That issue with noticeably worse banding with 10 bit input really annoyed me on principle so was too focused on that.

janos666

3rd June 2019, 01:39

first of all AMD never supported d3d9 overlay
I knew that. I just noted how I get a clear error message on AMD (not unexpectedly) and how this tricked me into believing overlay works on nVidia when it's ticked in the settings and there is no such error message. It was a mistake, I see that now.

overlay is d3d9 only so if d3d11 is ticked it not used by madVR and it can't use it the OSD clearly tells you that by simply not saying d3d9 overlay same for FSE it a different render path you don't need a red error massage for everything.
pascal clearly supports overlay so...

Ok, may bad. I don't think I ever really used the overlay mode before. I had either no hardware or use case for it because I think it was added to madVR while I had a Radeon card but then the DX11 mode was also introduced before I switched to a Geforce again (and DX11 not just seems superior but even mandatory for HDR10).

i have no clue why someone things 10 bit is of any important when testing this.
That's because I initially noticed the banding on HDR10 content and thus started to check HDR10 test patterns. I obviously wish to output 10bit if both the source and the display are native 10bit. And I suspected these patters have banding because 10bit output is erroneously truncated to 8bit. How could I check if 10bit gets through (from source to display without truncation/rounding) if madVR deliberately converts it to 8bit? I wasn't aware if there was similar banding problem with 8bit material.

By the way, I checked this DX9 overlay mode now and it looks like it has some gamma issue. SDR movies look like they were converted to almost linear tone response (there is absolutely no shadow detail, everything is bright in night scenes and colors are "washed out", skin tones are bright yellow, etc). Since I have no past experience with this mode, I have no idea if this is by design or not.

Asmodian

3rd June 2019, 01:50

By the way, I checked this DX9 overlay mode and it looks like it has gamma issues. SDR movies look like they were converted to almost linear tone response (there is absolutely no shadow detail, everything is bright in night scenes and colors are "washed out", skin tones are bright yellow, etc).

That does not sound right. Are you using a Windows calibration or something? Overlay looks correct on my system.

huhn

3rd June 2019, 02:00

That's because I initially noticed the banding on HDR10 content and thus started to check HDR10 test patterns. I obviously wish to output 10bit if both the source and the display are native 10bit. And I suspected these patters have banding because 10bit output is erroneously truncated to 8bit. How could I check if 10bit gets through (from source to display without truncation/rounding) if madVR deliberately converts it to 8bit? I wasn't aware if there was similar banding problem with 8bit material.

not this again...
every* commercial file you play that is about to be converted to RGB is 32 bit float this counts for DVDs, BD, UHD BD. if a file is encoded in 8, 10 or 12 bit has nothing todo with this.

or with other words you could never check if a file gets out without truncation rounding or dithering because it's not possible.

*add unimportant number of exclusion here

janos666

3rd June 2019, 02:22

not this again...
every* commercial file you play that is about to be converted to RGB is 32 bit float this counts for DVDs, BD, UHD BD. if a file is encoded in 8, 10 or 12 bit has nothing todo with this.

or with other words you could never check if a file gets out without truncation rounding or dithering because it's not possible.

*add unimportant number of exclusion here
I am not entirely sure what you mean. I know video files are YCC and that's always converted to RGB on PC. But seriously... Open a 10bit gradient pattern, disable dithering and then check if you see any difference between 8bit and 10bit output modes (on a >=10bit display).
I obviously meant something like "this gradient now visually like 10bit equivalent to my naked eyes within the margin of error" or "this gradient now looks more like 8bit equivalent because there are a lot less visible steps and more bands when compared to the previous test".
I didn't know I have to add so much footnotes to get the message through instead of getting hung up on every technical details.

huhn

3rd June 2019, 02:29

I obviously wish to output 10bit if both the source and the display are native 10bit.
this is the core issue is just not how this works.
there is a reason i use a 16 bit RGB gradation test.

and for some reason if someone sees banding it is always set with a mindset of no dithering.

janos666

3rd June 2019, 02:43

this is the core issue is just not how this works.
there is a reason i use a 16 bit RGB gradation test.

and for some reason if someone sees banding it is always set with a mindset of no dithering.

Again. I suspect the 10bit output of madVR (or anything else) is converted (in bad quality, so not by dithering but truncation/rounding) to 8bit by the WDM or the driver before the GPU outputs 10bit to the display.
How else should I test this other than disabling dithering (for testing purposes), using >=10bit test images and switching between 8 and >=10bit output formats (either or both in madVR settings and GPU settings).
I can't visually see too much difference if everything is dithered for 8bit anyways. That masks the suspected error.

That does not sound right. Are you using a Windows calibration or something? Overlay looks correct on my system.

No. My secondary display (cheap old LCD) has an ICM profile. Windows handles the LUT loading (DisplayCAL's LUT Loader caused issues with DolbyVision games launched on the primary display). The main display (UHD HDR TV) runs with the system default sRGB profile.
But now that you say... I guess it's possible the overlay mode applies the calibration LUT of the secondary display to the output on the main display. The secondary display LUT is very far from neutral (the display is set to do the least amount of processing on it's own because it's processor is very stupid).
However, this overlay is not very useful to me nowadays either ways because HDR10 doesn't work with it.

huhn

3rd June 2019, 02:51

if you want to test if something is rounding to 8 bit you should leave dithering >on< if the image still get's rounding based 8 bit banding which is very very easy to see the dithering will be undone and should looks the same as madVR 8 bit output without dithering everything inbetween should be an issue on the TV side which is pretty much confirm on all TV which rtings limited banding test.

you can easily test banding with an 8 bit yCbCr source file that is dithered to 10 bit the same way.

so using dithering isn't hiding other parts that are not dithering.

ryrynz

3rd June 2019, 02:56

How else should I test this other than disabling dithering (for testing purposes), using >=10bit test images and switching between 8 and >=10bit output formats (either or both in madVR settings and GPU settings).

That's how I did it and Asmodian told me off [emoji28]
I think the takeaway here is that 8bit with dithering is actually very good and is in a similar level if not actually sometimes better than 10bit with dithering. I can't see a wrong choice here if you see little to no difference between the two so I wouldn't get hung up on it.

janos666

3rd June 2019, 03:13

That's how I did it and Asmodian told me off [emoji28]
I think the takeaway here is that 8bit with dithering is actually very good and is in a similar level if not actually sometimes better than 10bit with dithering. I can't see a wrong choice here if you see little to no difference between the two so I wouldn't get hung up on it.

Alas, I suspect this entire bitdepth conversation also lost it's context of suspected nVidia WDDM 2.6 drivers / Windows 1903 issues.
I wasn't searching for the optimal settings on my set of hardware in general. This conversation started when some of us updated to the latest Windows 10 build and accompanying GPU drivers. Most of what I tried to explain were attempts to diagnose that problem, not to fine-tune a system.

huhn

3rd June 2019, 03:23

i'm mostly pointing at the flawed test to for this.

and do not forget we are now from d3d9 overlay does the same to not working to fixing it.

oldpainlesskodi

3rd June 2019, 06:26

did you make sure that stuff like d3d11 and FSE are disabled while testing with overlay?

Tried again, and yep, as a test, it fixed the issue for a wddm 2.6 driver.

So what have they broke?

huhn

3rd June 2019, 11:46

the fact that overlay is perfect as always means nvidias driver rendering path which should always be the same is still working fine and something at the wddm level goes totally wrong. so this whole issue could be totally on microsoft.
we just need a clear conformation from an AMD card the earliest i will get an new AMD card is still far over a month so... someone else should do that.

a new intel iGPU may be better for testing this overlay works there too.
looks like my hd 4400 still get's driver if it has wddm 2.6 support now i will test with that GPU later.
edit: i don't have the new windows version on this system and i'm not eager to get it on this system so i'm not going to test this anytime soon.

janos666

3rd June 2019, 13:27

we just need a clear conformation from an AMD card the earliest i will get an new AMD card is still far over a month so... someone else should do that.

My mobile Vega produces banding with both 19.5.2 (generic AMD driver from amd.com, WDDM 2.6) and 17.7 (HP manufacturer packaged version from Windows Update, WDDM 2.3). It looks like only a small number of WDDM 2.5 drivers might work correctly with Win10 1903 (an old WDDM 2.1 nVidia driver I tried also produces banding).

oldpainlesskodi

3rd June 2019, 18:22

Ok, good to know it's not just me then...as I mentioned, on my Nvidia setup, with the latest version of windows, wddm 2.5 is ok, 2.6 is not (excluding Hunn's work around) .

TK423

6th June 2019, 21:34

Nvidia user here. Haven't updated my drivers since 417.71.

In order to fix the HDR issues with the 417.71 drivers I...

Used 7-Zip to extract the installer files (417.71-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql.exe) to a folder
Deleted the HDAudio folder from the extracted 417.71 installer files
Replaced the deleted HDAudio folder with the one extracted from the 388.59 installer files.

This allowed me to install the 417.71 drivers while retaining HDR ability with MPC-HC and MadVR.

It's been about five months since I've updated my GPU drivers and since I also use my PC for gaming, I'd like to update them.

Does anyone know if the aforementioned fix will work with the newest 430.86 drivers - deleting the HDAudio folder and replacing it with the one from the 388.59 drivers?

hotripper

8th June 2019, 01:02

Why wouldnt it?

But may be unnecessary as I believe the HDR nit/color issue was confirmed as fixed a couple of drivers ago.

SoySauceWDF

8th June 2019, 03:46

Still getting stuttering on an RTX 2080ti, latest drivers, applied the nvidia profiles. Audio seems to be out of sync now as well

el Filou

10th June 2019, 18:54

(I know this thread is about GPUs and madVR, but as the graphics drivers also include the audio drivers and a lot of HTPC users have AVRs I figured it's still on-topic. If not, I apologize)

Has anyone here using an NVIDIA and HDMI out to an AVR noticed that it does a 'pop' sound when changing refresh rates?
I am on Windows 1809 (but the problem was already there on 1803), 1050 Ti with driver 430.64, standard driver timings no custom mode, the AVR is 10-year old and its firmware and config haven't changed in ages so I'm pretty sure it's not the cause.
Ever since I bought the card two years ago I never heard anything when changing refresh rates, but for a few weeks now I've noticed that I hear a pop sound from the AVR, like the sound old analogue PC sound cards made when initializing their driver at boot.

At first I thought it was due to an NVIDIA audio driver problem so I tried older drivers but it didn't fix it. I tried rolling back Windows updates but it didn't fix it either. Now after having search all over the web and not finding any forum thread on this issue I'm out of ideas.

This is getting on my nerves because I frequently change display refresh rate between 50 Hz and 24 Hz and I can't stand hearing that pop sound which wasn't there before.
Something weird I've verified: it doesn't happen if the sound format set in Windows control panel (for shared mode) is higher than 48 kHz. Anything 48 kHz and below, be it 16 or 24 bit, gives a pop sound on refresh rate change, and anything higher than 48 kHz doesn't.
I don't want to use 96 kHz because it gives lower quality with my hardware and is more processor-intensive with ReClock.

Anyone has any idea what could be causing this, or has noticed the same thing? If yes, was it just after a driver update?
Thanks.

Manni

10th June 2019, 23:13

Did you try bitstreaming? In my setup I don't get any pop.

hotripper

11th June 2019, 01:00

Anyone has any idea what could be causing this, or has noticed the same thing? If yes, was it just after a driver update?
Thanks.

The only thing that ever gives me a pop is Dirt Rally and DR2.

hotripper

11th June 2019, 01:06

Still getting stuttering on an RTX 2080ti, latest drivers, applied the nvidia profiles. Audio seems to be out of sync now as well

Stuttering in what? Madvr? MPC? Games? Everything video?

Welcome to RTX. Youre not alone. MAdvr in particular and MPC-HC give many of us heartaches.

Try CUVDA for MPC custom presenter, try copy-back for Madvr and set frames in advance to 1 in madvr settings. This has worked for me for 2 months now. Ive just stopped caring tbh

SamuriHL

11th June 2019, 05:23

Ok, well, I now know what a potential cause of the stuttering is for RTX users because after a clean install of windows (don't ask....seriously, I'm beyond livid right now with my new machine and lost everything due to a massive SSD crash) I now suffer from it, too. I'm fairly certain it comes down to DCH vs standard drivers. I will test this theory tomorrow and nuke the DCH driver and replace it with the standard and see if the stuttering issue goes away. Note that I configured everything the way I had it before the crash and am getting the stuttering issue. No reported drops in madvr and I'm jamming around 24ms for a UHD with HDR tone mapping on my 2070. Yea, this is fun. LOL

ryrynz

11th June 2019, 07:59

Well if it helps, if you do find the cause, you potentially help a lot of people.. Fingers crossed.

SamuriHL

11th June 2019, 11:25

That was my thought too. Believe me I'll be all over it today. I'll post what I find as soon as I find it.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

el Filou

11th June 2019, 11:43

Did you try bitstreaming? In my setup I don't get any pop.Bitstreaming or decoding doesn't change the issue because the popping sound happens on refresh rate change, even in Windows when I'm not playing any media. It's like the NVIDIA disables the audio output for a very short time when changing the display refresh rate and enables it again right after. I also didn't get any pop before and I can't pinpoint what exact change is causing this. :(

huhn

11th June 2019, 11:54

i have this with analogue audio too my guess is a new thing with newer windows versions.

el Filou

11th June 2019, 12:34

SamuriHL

11th June 2019, 12:50

huhn

11th June 2019, 13:41

Oh my. Thanks for confirming though.
And this also happens if you change refresh rates in rapid succession, like less than 10 seconds?
I know that now the NVIDIA audio driver forcefully closes the HDMI audio stream after 10 seconds of no sound to save power but I've edited the registry to fix this, so it isn't the cause.

i don't have the issue anymore i don't run new windows version at the moment.

i personally would just ignore this "issue" an audio pop with an resync is sadly relative normal with all kinds of devices.

i'm using an bad expensive PCIe sound card not an good realtek onboard soundcard and this can easily the reason for me. can't wait for my ryzen with proper onboard soundcard...

gonca

11th June 2019, 15:57

Well it's not going to f***ing happen any time soon as my system crashed again overnight and won't boot anymore. The brand new 970 pro appears to have completely f***ing died and I'm so far beside myself given what I paid for it it's not even funny. All the work I spent last night rebuilding the goddamn thing is gone again. WTF Samsung!

What MoBO do you have?
Never had a Samsung SSD (or NVME) just die
Did you try unplugging the power supply from the wall for a minute?
Power supply still good?

SamuriHL

11th June 2019, 16:48

Yea, it's not the SSD. It's a much more complicated problem, unfortunately, which may end up ultimately coming down to my RTX 2070. I spent too much time this morning debugging the issue already so I have to set it aside til tonight. The issue is more bizarre than anything I've ever seen on a PC, though, which troubles me as everything is brand new within the last 45-60 days. The SSD, however, is not the issue and has been ruled out.

hotripper

11th June 2019, 17:40

el Filou

11th June 2019, 18:24

@hotripper

1. Device Manager: open the sound controller device properties => Details => copy the 'Driver key' property
2. Regedit: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Class\<********paste Driver key here********>\PowerSettings => change the PerformanceIdleTime key to 00 00 00 00

(there's also a ConservationIdleTime key if you want a different timeout for when a laptop is on battery)

source: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/audio/portcls-registry-power-settings

Disclaimer: this may make your AVR consume more power when no audio is played, depending on its design

gonca

11th June 2019, 18:48

SamuriHL

11th June 2019, 20:27

Yea, I've narrowed it down to video related issues. I've pulled the 2070 right now and am reinstalling windows with just the built in Intel whatever on the 9900k. madvr isn't going to love that but this should only be temporary until I can determine if it's a defective card and get it replaced.

hotripper

12th June 2019, 00:49

@el Fijou
Thanks. works, So far so good! Its annoying how my 5.1 through dvi/hdmi sleeps but stereo hdmi through tvARC never sleeps so power concern is none for me, I just want both outputs to act the same. Awesome tip!

SamuriHL

12th June 2019, 01:14

Alright, my issue is on its way to being solved. After so much troubleshooting it has been narrowed down to a hardware issue with the 2070. nVidia is RMA'ing it and my system is running with my 1060 right now. Good thing is I guess the windows clean install? LOL It is a brand new machine.

oldpainlesskodi

12th June 2019, 08:43

The banding issue on Win 10 1903 looks like it's been picked up:

https://hub.displaycal.net/forums/topic/severe-banding-in-windows-1903/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/bzed4h/windows_10_1903_banding_vertical_strips_issue/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/bs7vr9/so_i_managed_to_find_out_why_some_people_who_use/

ryrynz

12th June 2019, 12:09

Yeah users picked it up ages ago, has it been picked up by Nvidia/MS though? It's entirely the reason why I've held off 1903 on my HTPC. Really nice update though apart from this issue.

el Filou

12th June 2019, 12:16

The really depressing part is this: "I’ve reported the issue both to nvidia, and Microsoft multiple times since the issue has been there for months in the insider builds which is now RTM but seems that nothing is being done about it."

They mostly depend on insiders for QA but even when issues are reported officially and widely they don't get fixed before release. :(
It's like Windows is some video game for them now instead of, you know, a critical part of using your computer.

ryrynz

12th June 2019, 12:29

That honestly does not surprise me, communication is often poor unless you're dealing with an actual person. Pity Madshi ain't around to help sort it.. providing him all the info and having him forward it on would've been the ideal solution.
Have you spoken with ManuelGuzman or tweeted @windowsdev? Both of them appear to be reasonably useful in making things happen.

oldpainlesskodi

12th June 2019, 12:34

Yeah users picked it up ages ago, has it been picked up by Nvidia/MS though? It's entirely the reason why I've held off 1903 on my HTPC. Really nice update though apart from this issue.

Yeah, true...I guess the more noise created, hopefully the better the chances of it getting fixed.

ryrynz

12th June 2019, 12:37

It will be fixed, it'll just be better chances of getting it fixed promptly. Wonder if it's even on their radar?

oldpainlesskodi

12th June 2019, 12:39

It will be fixed, it'll just be better chances of getting it fixed promptly. Wonder if it's even on their radar?

I'm not a member on the Nvidia or MS forums, so hopefully those that are (and here) will help flag the issue.

el Filou

12th June 2019, 18:10

i personally would just ignore this "issue" an audio pop with an resync is sadly relative normal with all kinds of devices.I know but I'm hypersensitive to harsh noises and it's really quite a loud pop if the AVR volume is set to movie listening level. :( I'm also afraid it may damage my speakers in the long run but maybe I'm being paranoid.

You're right that it's due to a change in Windows because I've just cleaned my system of all traces of NVIDIA audio driver and registry settings and went back to the generic MS HD Audio driver and it's still happening. It's probably a change on the graphics side, it must force the GPU to reset the whole HDMI connection when changing refresh rate or something like that and it probably is doing it dirty without cleanly cutting the audio channel first.
I wish if HDMI QMS eventually comes to PCs one day that it will fix this again.
I'm now manually muting the global sound output of Windows before changing my display refresh rate to avoid it, it's bothersome but it's a workaround. :sly:

janos666

13th June 2019, 17:44

Did anybody find an AMD driver that works with 1903 (no banding)?
Edit: This is madness. I decided to run DDU and try the latest 19.6.1 (WDDM 2.6) for one last time (before trying to revert to 1809) and now it's all fine. This leaves me wondering what really triggers the banding (or if running DDU changed anything).

oldpainlesskodi

14th June 2019, 07:08

Finally managed to use a wddm 2.6 driver....and such a simple fix (I had done this on a previous windows build, but didnt even think to check on 1903 build).

Credit to acesko92 from the nvidia forum:

"I managed to find a fix for the broken gamma, and nvidia dithering in windows 1903: you need to go to Task Scheduler > Microsoft > Windows > WindowsColorSystem, and delete the task called WindowsColorSystem Calibration Loader."

I just disabled the service and rebooted, but each to their own.

janos666

14th June 2019, 17:45

"I managed to find a fix for the broken gamma, and nvidia dithering in windows 1903: you need to go to Task Scheduler > Microsoft > Windows > WindowsColorSystem, and delete the task called WindowsColorSystem Calibration Loader."

Hah, funny. This workaround works for me too (with v435.27 on a machine which has a custom ICM profile for the secondary display).
But I am pretty sure I didn't have any custom ICM profiles installed on my AMD notebook (unless Windows Update tried to grab one from the manufacturer but I saw no indication of this anywhere and those rarely have a modified 1DLUT anyway) and it just went away between random driver installs (+ a DDU run but no task scheduler tinkering).

el Filou

20th June 2019, 15:16

huhn

21st June 2019, 10:13

no one cares? that's very disappointing...

ryrynz

21st June 2019, 12:42

Yeah, everyone jump into the Feedback Hub and upvote it.

SamuriHL

21st June 2019, 22:59

I upvoted it. I just think MS won't care. I've been through this with them already for a different kind of issue. Even when they did eventually add the feature I was looking for, it was for something completely different but they closed my issue and merged it with the other one anyway. So...good luck I guess?

Nicog

24th June 2019, 21:36

Hi!

Maybe I'm a noob but I still have stuttering on 430.xx drivers my my RTX. For me last working driver is 418.91...

I played with that (https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1871970&postcount=151) for hours without any success (not sure also to have understood the purpose of the attached files with Nvidia inspector…).

I'm the only guy who still have this issue?

janos666

24th June 2019, 23:06

I have filed a feature suggestion to MS Feedback Hub for adding a 'audio-only display output' feature to Windows (could be useful for HTPCs). Here's the link if anyone is interested: https://aka.ms/AA5emb3

Thanks. I was thinking about filing a "phantom display" request but I figured it would be pointless (some generic tech support guy would simply tell me it's either impossible or non-standard/compliant, whatever - with no way to argue about it any further).

SamuriHL

25th June 2019, 00:11

Hi!

Maybe I'm a noob but I still have stuttering on 430.xx drivers my my RTX. For me last working driver is 418.91...
...

Finally got my 2070 back today. nVidia replaced it with a shiny new one. Thanks, nVidia!! Anyway, I had to reinstall Windows 10 several times while troubleshooting the card. Now that I have the card back, I pulled the 1060 and dropped the 2070 in there without even doing a driver reinstall. No stuttering at all. However, what i DID do after my last Windows reinstall with the 1060 is replace the DCH driver with the standard driver. On a clean Windows install this is somewhat of a pain in the ass. My anecdotal non-scientific could be total nonsense evidence seems to point to the DCH driver as being the culprit in this case. I manually set Power and Vertical Sync to adaptive as my two settings changes. I've NO idea if this will help you, but, it's all I got. If you want to know the nightmarish kind of process used to whack the DCH driver and replace it with standard, see here:

https://www.techpowerup.com/250415/psa-nvidia-installer-cannot-continue-on-windows-october-2018-update-and-how-to-fix-it

Good luck if you do go down this path. I'd be curious what your results are because as I said, I don't have the stuttering and this is what I did.

Nicog

28th June 2019, 09:38

Thanks for your answer SamuriHL.

I looked at your link and I tried to remove DCH driver but it was not in Regedit - so for me the issue is coming from this.

I tried also to remove completly the driver and reinstall it. It works 2 days but now it's NOK again (like if Windows has made something in Nvidia's driver Back...).

I tried again to desinstall 430 and reinstall it -> NOK

So I'm back to 418, the only one which works for me :(

Klaus1189

28th June 2019, 11:07

https://videocardz.com/81105/nvidia-geforce-rtx-2070-super-and-rtx-2060-super-final-specifications-leaked

SamuriHL

28th June 2019, 22:37

Don't feel bad, I've got the stuttering again, too, so, clearly my idea of using the standard driver did not help. Nothing really changed on the box since I put the card in on Monday, and then last night I was doing some testing and played a movie and it's stuttering like crazy. I spent an hour or so on various potential solutions to no avail. I'm not sure what my next step is going to be. We're not alone in this issue, though. There are hundreds of posts about stuttering in games that have the EXACT same symptoms that we have in madvr. nVidia and/or MS needs to step up and fix this damn issue. I suspect Windows as being the culprit.

Warner306

28th June 2019, 22:41

If you can find the post about games stuttering, you should post a link here. Many who have stuttering probably want to know that some setting in madVR or the Nvidia Control Panel isn't causing it.

SamuriHL

28th June 2019, 23:11

A quick google of "RTX stuttering" is all you need to find literally dozens of threads like these:

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1073075/geforce-rtx-20-series/major-stuttering-with-all-games-rtx-2080/

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1077774/geforce-rtx-20-series/rtx-2080-occasional-stuttering-across-all-games/

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1099049/geforce-rtx-20-series/rtx-2080-stuttering-in-almost-all-games-wtf-/

Well, you get the point. There are more topics on that forum and plenty of other forums that also have topics on it. Some drivers appear to be better than others which mirrors what we've found for madvr, as well. In fact, the whole ordeal mirrors what we've found for madvr which isn't surprising. I spent quite a bit of time combing through the threads to find potential fixes but none of them helped me.

SamuriHL

29th June 2019, 00:03

Here's what I can tell you definitively....and the majority of RTX owners are NOT going to like this one damn bit. (Irrelevant side note, I went back to the DCH driver just because but it doesn't make any difference). If you want to completely eliminate the stuttering, it's super simple to do, but, the fix is not awesome. Disable use Direct3D 11 for presentation in the madvr general settings page. That will indeed make the stuttering issue go away. But, ummmm, yeaaaaa.

huhn

29th June 2019, 02:03

sounds terrible to so user can use the superior d3d9 overlay.

Asmodian

29th June 2019, 02:50

Unless you feel you require 10 bit D3D9 is the same quality. DX9 windowed overlay is a reasonable workaround for me for now. No quality is lost v.s. 8 bit D3D11 but overlay does artifact when moved or started/stopped sometimes, at least for me. :p

Still, Windows 10 and GPU driver interactions have not been great for a while now. Behavior keeps changing and with many bugs and regressions.

SamuriHL

29th June 2019, 03:38

I agree. And yes those that want 10 bit will have to continue screwing around with d3d11. 10 bit causes banding for a lot of us ANYWAY, so, it's a feasible workaround for now. And to be clear for those that might be somewhat confused, this ONLY affects that setting in madvr. You can still use d3d11 decoding in lav.

el Filou

29th June 2019, 19:25

Does changing the power saving setting to Max Performance change anything to the amount/frequency of the stuttering?

SamuriHL

29th June 2019, 20:07

It didn't for me, no.

SamuriHL

1st July 2019, 01:05

I just finished watching a whole movie with D3D11 disabled in madvr settings and it was smooth as butter. Yes, you lose 10 bit. No you won't notice with madvr's excellent dithering. Quality is fantastic. Love being able to crank up a few things with the 2070 that I couldn't with the 1060 and still have lots of room to spare. I was running around 24ms for an HDR movie using madvr test build's tone mapping outputting HDR at 750 target nits.

In any case, if you have an RTX card and don't want to revert to drivers that don't output proper metadata and are suffering from stuttering, turn off d3d11. It works great.

hotripper

2nd July 2019, 04:54

Ive been saying that Shit for months since I got the 2070. Nice to know Nvidia is looking into it...uh huh. WOW not a peep from them u say??? Funny to see people still complaining about it, come on here every few weeks or so and still no fix, should march Nvidia down the road naked while all the peasants throw stuff at them and Lisa Sue repeats Shame shame shame

SamuriHL

2nd July 2019, 10:24

Lol. I can understand them not caring about the htpc community. I don't like it but I get it. However, the fact that it impacts so many gamers and still isn't fixed is truly frightening and leads me to believe it's not on nvidia to fix. I suspect this is a directx issue that ms needs to take care of. Which would explain why we're still seeing it some 9 months later.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

huhn

2nd July 2019, 12:41

if pscal is free of this why would MS be the problem it's just unlikely.

Klaus1189

2nd July 2019, 15:48

hotripper

2nd July 2019, 16:54

You can search my posts. But for me set frames presented in advance to 1. Drawback could result in audio out of sync, but usually works for me and get no stutter.
No driver is "fine".

I am not sure this is MS DX fault. It is very interesting that a clean install of the driver can get rid of the stutter but eventually comes back! Regardless, Nvidia and MS work together but not sure they are doing anything nor looking into it, at least it feels like theyre not.

I wonder if the new Super cards are gonna be contaminated with the issue? Time will tell.

huhn

2nd July 2019, 17:02

For stuttering issue of RTX cards can you please summarize what exactly to disable and probably enablely in madVR and/or Media Player to avoid stutter and what advantages and disadvantages the user gets when (s)he use that settings.
Also the driver version seems to be relevant, since 418.XX is fine?
I add that info in the first post.

these are different from user to user from nothing helps not even d3d9 overlay to power/vsync settings and that's it and there are even user with no problem at all.

hotripper

2nd July 2019, 19:03

So people can stop wasting their time, I can confirm for me at least these things to be futile:

Changing drivers
Downloading and using Nvidia Profiler
Clean install of OS
Clean Install of Driver with DDU
Uninstalling or not using Nvidia HD Audio
Exchanging cards from the retailer (Ihave tried 4 different cards)
Stock clocks on system
Underclock system
Overclock system
Selective startup so only essential windows services run
Madvr version
LAV Version
Swap out PSU
Change from Adaptive, Optimal, Performance,
Try different HDMI cables
Anything else you try haha

What does work:
Anything non RTX
Or wait for a fix from Nvidia/MS

SamuriHL

2nd July 2019, 22:51

For me on a clean install of 1903 and a safe mode DDU uninstall of the nVidia driver and clean install of the DCH 430.86 driver, the only thing that helps stuttering in madvr for me is to disable D3D11 presentation and use D3D9 overlay windowed mode. Yes, that loses 10 bit. No, I don't care. I did change Power and VSync both to adaptive in my settings. Yes I tried all the other settings while testing and nothing fixed the stuttering. With those settings I have now playback is buttery smooth and I'm quite happy to wait for whoever is responsible to fix it for D3D11.

jespermart

3rd July 2019, 09:35

The only thing that helps stuttering in madvr for me is to disable D3D11 presentation and use D3D9 overlay windowed mode.

Same here, on the new Win 10 1903, d3d9 is the only thing that prevent stuttering for me to on my RTX2080ti

jespermart

3rd July 2019, 10:08

hotripper

3rd July 2019, 17:45

It doesn't. In his case it may have done something but as we see fixes are very system specific, what works for one doesnt mean it will work for others, and is unlikely.
I believe it is irrelevant now as HDR issue which is unclear what it is exactly I am assuming he was referring to the problem with nits not being correct, has been dealt with in latest drivers.

hotripper

3rd July 2019, 18:37

For me...

Same here, on the new Win 10 1903, d3d9 is the only thing that prevent stuttering for me to on my RTX2080ti

But 60fps content is fine for you guys too right with d3d11? And the stutter is only visually apparent right? I mean I do not see glitches repeats or dropped frames being reported.

Issue is very bad mainly at 23.9 movie content. Setting d3d11 and frames presented in advanced to 1 works well for me, I didnt add it to the list because it seems I am the only one it works for.

SamuriHL

3rd July 2019, 21:22

I haven't tried any 60fps content yet as I've not had a lot of time since I got the card back to play around with it. I can try maybe tomorrow if I get a chance. I do have an actual 60fps UHD so I'll give it a shot and see how that goes.

P.S. Yes, only visual. madvr OSD doesn't show any issues.

jespermart

4th July 2019, 12:33

But 60fps content is fine for you guys too right with d3d11? And the stutter is only visually apparent right? I mean I do not see glitches repeats or dropped frames being reported.

Issue is very bad mainly at 23.9 movie content. Setting d3d11 and frames presented in advanced to 1 works well for me, I didnt add it to the list because it seems I am the only one it works for.

I can confirm that your solution with d3d11 and "frames presented in advanced" set to 1 works for me as well, no stuttering at all.
1080p60 materials, for me all my concert movies, are played via my dune 4k solo with full meny so I haven't tried playing via mpc-be and madVR

SamuriHL

6th July 2019, 03:19

I can also confirm setting frames presented in advanced to 1 works for me, too. I still haven't had a chance to test my 60fps movie but I will do that tomorrow as I want to make sure my settings work for it. So that's fun. :D

Klaus1189

6th July 2019, 12:32

I added the info the the first post.
Can I delete the need info of the actual driver, no more issues?

Let me know if there is anything else to add.

SamuriHL

6th July 2019, 22:02

Manni

6th July 2019, 22:10

Oy, 60fps UHD is difficult even with my 2070. Using the frames presented in advanced to 1 does work for fixing the stuttering issue, but, getting 60fps to play smoothly with the settings I choose is proving to be....challenging. Had to drop chroma down to Jinc and a few other compromises. Rendering times are all over the damn place. This is the only way I get it to play at the moment without dropped frames. And this machine is no slouch.

Really sorry to hear that, and very glad I kept my ancient quadcore with a 1080ti... I almost upgraded my rig six months ago to something very similar to the one you've built, and in the end I decided to wait for PCI 4.0 and HDMI 2.1. I hope these issues with RTX GPUs will be sorted by then. Thanks for your feedback and please keep us posted.

SamuriHL

6th July 2019, 22:42

I'll continue to tweak it and see if I can make it stable with higher settings. Right now I'm actually watching this movie since it's the first time I've been able to at ALL with my HTPC. LOL It looks fantastic. Probably could look better. :)

hotripper

7th July 2019, 03:09

Wow really? 60 fps is no sweat here and my cpu is old but still a beast ;) 23.9 is the thorn in my ass. What render settings are you using? Maybe I can duplicate the issue.

SamuriHL

7th July 2019, 04:20

The CPU in my case isn't really doing a hell of a lot. :) The 2070, however, is working its ass off. In the nVidia CP at the very moment I have Power set to adaptive, Vertical Sync set to on (yuck but I got tearing without it). In madvr what I WANT to have set for 60 and where I get into trouble:

HDR set to tonemapping by pixel shader or whatever the hell it's called now. Target nit set to 700. I am using measurements files. For chroma, NGU AA High. Luma NGU Sharp High. NOTHING in trade performance options checked. :D The second dithering option (error diffusion 2) I think, with color. (Hey, it's all from memory as I'm not at the machine....). I was using the only 60fps UHD ripped to MKV that I have which is Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk. Rendering times hit the mid-60's at times with massive dropped frames. To get it stable I had to set the luminance and scale chroma separately options and set chroma upscaling to Jinc. Then it was playing fine with only a couple dropped frames here and there. Obviously I want to play around more and see what looks "best" to me for options. I'm quite sure if I did passthrough HDR I could have all the options I want with no issue but that's not what I want to be doing.

Klaus1189

7th July 2019, 17:14

If I had a RTX card, how would I get proper 23 Hz (custom refresh rate) that really works, also after reboot, ...?

CRU?, also with newest driver which seems to be fine?

RXP

8th July 2019, 09:45

Go back to an earlier driver (385.28 recommended) or upgrade the projector. :)

The magenta bug is gone on the new (2019) 4K models, it doesn't happen in 8bits or 12bits, at any frame rate, which makes using 8bits an option again.

With older models, 385.28 only has the magenta bug at 4K60 8bits. There is no magenta bug at 12bits (though colorspace is forced to YCC 422 internally when using RGB or YCC444, irrespective of the frame rate, which hopefully will be solved on the new models, it won't be on the old ones).

Every driver post 385.28 breaks something. The only advantage to using a more recent driver with a GTX card is 3D. Otherwise stick to 385.28.

I think 391.24 is the last driver where the magenta bug is not with 12bits as well as 8bits, at all frame rates. However the video levels are borked in 12bits if using video levels, and you can't select 12bits in a custom res. Of course 3D only improved with 391.35, so it's one or the other. Then after 398.11 you lose HDR passthrough as well.

Again, 385.28 is the driver to use with GTX (not an option with RTX), unless you really have to use a more recent driver for whatever reason, or a frame drop in 3D every 13min instead of every 3 minutes is good enough motivation to deal with all the other issues.

Hopefully the next major driver branch coming up this month should allow at least some of us to upgrade, especially if HDR passthrough is supported again.

Klaus1189, if you think it's useful, please could you link to this post in the first post, as a "note to JVC projector owners with nVidia GPU"? Thanks!

Just a quick addition to this - It'd been a while since I used my JVC x9000. I have my output to RGB 23hz for my OLED and as a result when switching to BT2020 I was hit with the magenta bug on the PJ. Only way I could get rid of it was switching to ycbcr - then no bug at 8 bit. I'm on 385.28

Bring on MadVR Envy, I'm a seasoned user and after not using it for a couple months I forget. It's such a pain.

Klaus1189

9th July 2019, 18:18

GeForce Game Ready Driver 431.36 WHQL is available.

SamuriHL

9th July 2019, 21:56

Guess it doesn't hurt to try it. LOL Thanks!

BetA13

9th July 2019, 23:11

from the new Nvidia Driver 431.36 (PDF)

Despite the included fixes, there are still some known issues to be aware of:

Additional issues

2626510-Windows 10 May 2019 Update: Banding on some displays after OS update -> Working with Microsoft on a fix

Operating System Issues

[Windows 10 Fall Creators Update][HDTV]:
12 bpc is automatically applied even on
HDTVs that support only 8 bpc, resulting in a scrambled display. [2007663]
To work around, open the NVIDIA Control Panel->Change Resolution page, select “Use
NVIDIA color settings”, then set
the Output color depth to 8 bpc.

When upgrading from Windows 7 to Window
s 8, the system fails to retrieve the
installed WHQL displa
y driver. [1024416]
See the Microsoft KB article KB2743349
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2743349
.

jasonwc18

11th July 2019, 00:03

The latest Nvidia 431.36 driver will only provide 8 bit color output from a custom resolution mode. This appears to be a driver bug regression as I was using the same graphics card and projector (GTX 1070 and a JVC RS600) with a much older driver and got 12 bit output from my custom mode. The only other change I made was updating to Windows 10 Version 1903 for the new Ryzen scheduler, but I don't believe this caused the issue. Oddly, the bug above claims that it uses 12 bit by default. In my testing, it set 8 bit with the default settings and only used 12 bit when I manually selected it. While 12 bit is initially available for a custom resolution, after applying the resolution, it reverts to 8 bit, regardless of the refresh rate (I'm doing this for 2160p23).

Warner306

11th July 2019, 01:26

I think it's been that way for a long time.

jasonwc18

11th July 2019, 03:20

It appears so. I tried 416.81, 417.71, and 418.81 (clean wipe between each with DDU). Users previously reported that these versions worked with custom modes + 12 bit color. However, they were on earlier versions of Windows (I'm using 1903 for the new Ryzen scheduler). The only driver that actually works is the MS default - 388.43 IIRC. This release did work with my custom 2160p23 profile using 12 bit color. However, it was released in Nov 2017!

chros

11th July 2019, 10:12

The latest Nvidia 431.36 driver will only provide 8 bit color output from a custom resolution mode.
Is it also the case if you delete the custom resolution in nvidia CP and create it only with CRU instead?

el Filou

12th July 2019, 14:29

Just noticed this in the release notes for NVIDIA 431.36, page 18:If hardware accelerated video is playing on one display and an application is launched on
another display in windowed mode with NVIDIA G-SYNC or adaptive-sync enabled, the
video stutters. This is the result of desktop compositing on displays with differing refresh
rates. [...] Note: The issue can also occur when displays are set to different
refresh rates, even when G-SYNC is not used. To resolve in this case,
make sure all displays are set to the same refresh rate.Are you guys with RTX cards who are encountering stuttering using multi-display at differing refresh rates by any chance?

SamuriHL

12th July 2019, 16:48

Nope I'm not.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

hotripper

13th July 2019, 04:23

Not using 2 displays technically maybe since I am using DP to carry surround to my receiver both at 60hz. Regardless, when tested only using 1 display still get stutter.
Problem is this will likely go on overlooked as we are a minority of HTPC users. But some attention should be given to all of the gamer complaints. It Just Works...like crap more like it, but technically does work from a certain point of view

SamuriHL

13th July 2019, 04:38

I can tell you it does NOT work for gaming, either. Quake RTX, for example, I get very similar issues.

huhn

13th July 2019, 04:49

desktop composition issues (specially on dual screen system mismatching refreshrates) are an old issue with windows 10 and was even worse in windows 7 they fixed it totally in windows 8 but for some reason had to break it again with win 10...

i'm going to suggest a very random thing you could try with RTX.
try RTSS and set a frame limiter of to 24 hz or a very little bit higher and see if it changes something.

hotripper

14th July 2019, 23:32

So whats the consensus on installing 1903??? yay or nay?

videoh

15th July 2019, 00:56

I can speak only for myself but 1903 is fine for me.

huhn

15th July 2019, 01:35

1903 has heavy banding issues it's even in the known issues in the nvidia driver.

hotripper

15th July 2019, 23:39

So I'll just hold off then. Till we get some fix or they finally force 1903 down my throat, which I assume will happen first LOL

ryrynz

16th July 2019, 00:57

which I assume will happen first LOL

Nah, you got 18 months.

Klaus1189

17th July 2019, 17:08

For AMD users interesting:
AMD Cleanup Utility (https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/faq/gpu-601)

jasonwc18

19th July 2019, 15:33

Is it also the case if you delete the custom resolution in nvidia CP and create it only with CRU instead?

This is actually what I did. I used DDU to remove the uninstall the prior driver from safe mode as well as all settings (including custom resolutions), rebooted, installed the new driver, and then used madvr to generate the custom resolution (2160p23.976).

The last driver that I know works with Custom Resolution + 12 bit color is 390.65 (Jan 2018).

SamuriHL

23rd July 2019, 17:41

https://www.neowin.net/news/nvidia-43160-whql-game-ready-driver-now-available-with-support-for-the-rtx-2080-super

Oh yey, another nVidia driver 431.60 that doesn't help us as this is a known issue:

2626510-Windows 10 May 2019 Update: Banding on some displays after OS update -> Working with Microsoft on a fix

huhn

23rd July 2019, 17:44

that line is not new and i had this banding but the new windows preview is fine for me.

so maybe Microsoft has fixed it already.

SamuriHL

23rd July 2019, 23:27

Not in 1903 they didn't.

ryrynz

23rd July 2019, 23:49

Are you sure? huhn is using a preview not release build and MS don't usually release the change log at the time they make these preview builds available.

SamuriHL

24th July 2019, 00:43

A "preview" of what? 1903 is release. If he's talking about 19h2 I guess that's a "preview" given that it's in the slow ring....but that won't really be 1903.

huhn

24th July 2019, 08:40

i'm on 18941 a 20h1 preview build.

oldpainlesskodi

24th July 2019, 09:19

i'm on 18941 a 20h1 preview build.

Same here and no banding issues.

ryrynz

24th July 2019, 12:23

Hopefully means us on 1903 will get the fix next update.

SamuriHL

24th July 2019, 13:14

Right cause 20h1 is March next year. So if they know how to fix it then hopefully it's at least in 19h2.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

oldpainlesskodi

24th July 2019, 18:48

Right cause 20h1 is March next year. So if they know how to fix it then hopefully it's at least in 19h2.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

If only it were that simple...lol.

Imagine the bugs reintroduced between now and then.

I'd literally handover a fistful of cash, if I could get a locked down and perfect HTPC OS and MadVr.

SamuriHL

24th July 2019, 22:46

Believe me, I'm a software developer myself, so I know exactly how these things go. The code for 19h2 is in one branch in MS' internal "TFS" repository (aka git repo) and the code for 20h1 is in another repo. Let's say they have the fix for this banding bug in 20h1, that doesn't AUTOMAGICALLY mean it gets ported over to the 19h2 branch. It's such a fun game to play! :D In any case, if MS knows how to fix it, and nVidia is pushing them to do so, it's LIKELY we'll see it in 19h2.

nevcairiel

24th July 2019, 22:48

19h2 is not actually that big of a thing. It'll basically just be a bigger monthly update, instead of a "major" update like 1903 was or 20h1 is going to be. If the fix requires infrastructure changes and cannot be backported, it'll remain in 20h1. If it can be backported, we might see it in a cumulative update even before then.

SamuriHL

25th July 2019, 00:00

Yea I wonder if it has to do with the WDDM stuff that's going on. I have no desire to put a preview build on my HTPC that's that far out. I guess we'll find out as I believe they're targeting 19h2, which as you said is a glorified monthly patch, for september.

huhn

25th July 2019, 05:15

2 reports doesn't prove that it was fixed at all we may just be lucky and we are not affected. so please don't take this as a 100 % prove that microsoft fixed and only microsoft had to change something even through it currently looks like it.

Manni

27th July 2019, 15:05

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4505903/windows-10-update-kb4505903

Does this fix the banding issue on 1903?

Apparently it helps but it’s not 100% fix, especially in full screen.

Klaus1189

29th July 2019, 17:34

New Studio Driver 431.70

el Filou

29th July 2019, 19:12

"What’s New
[...]
 Adds support for 30-bit color"

Edit: it's for OpenGL pro apps (finally!), not to provide the choice of 10-bit HDMI output: https://www.anandtech.com/show/14682/nvidia-siggraph-2019-nv-to-enable-30bit-opengl-support-on-geforce-cards

huhn

29th July 2019, 19:19

and i was just going to try it that saved me some time...

Klaus1189

1st August 2019, 08:49

In 430.39 3D support was dropped as claimed but it seems that this version didn't send 3D MVC correctly (https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1872531&postcount=171).
Doesn that work now?
Does HDR passthrough work on these? Does it also work in windowed mode?
Is the audio bug still existent?
Are there any other issues in the last two or three driver versions?
I am also interested in customs refresh rates, especially needed for 23p mode. Can I force 8 bit or 12 bit somehow in Custom Resolution Utility (https://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU) (CRU)

I plan buying a new card and want to know the current situation of Nvidia for HTPC usage.

el Filou

1st August 2019, 15:21

Which audio bug?

Klaus1189

1st August 2019, 16:24

https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1871010&postcount=141

nevcairiel

1st August 2019, 16:51

There is a million bugs that probably only one person cares about. Unless you actually run into any bug yourself, there is litereally no reason for you to care.
The only thing that might matter for someone is that 3D is dead on NVIDIA, and will remain dead. But 3D is also dead on all new TVs, so that reason is just going to slowly fade away into the nether.

Manni

1st August 2019, 17:20

The only thing that might matter for someone is that 3D is dead on NVIDIA, and will remain dead. But 3D is also dead on all new TVs, so that reason is just going to slowly fade away into the nether.

3D is alive and well on projectors, where it works extremely well. :)

In the meantime, 398.11 works fine for older GTX models.

I will replace my HTPC with another source before I give up on 3D. My next GPU will be AMD if nVidia doesn’t bring 3D back (and I agree it’s unlikely it will). In the meantime, my 1080ti works fine!

I can’t wait for Envy to be here so we have more of a choice regarding sources...

nevcairiel

1st August 2019, 18:31

3D is alive and well on projectors, where it works extremely well. :)

But its also basically "legacy". There is no 4K 3D standard, and with TVs discontinuing support, even 1080p 3D BDs will see a sharp drop in availability for new movies.

In the end, this is a dying technology.

Manni

1st August 2019, 19:27

But its also basically "legacy". There is no 4K 3D standard, and with TVs discontinuing support, even 1080p 3D BDs will see a sharp drop in availability for new movies.

In the end, this is a dying technology.

Why would you need a 4K 3D standard to enjoy 3D BD?

Anyway, even if they stopped producing titles (which they haven’t, at least in Europe), I have 300+ 3D BD movies that I intend to keep watching. The last projector that supports 3D will be my last projector, until it dies I guess. I’ll save lots of money when that happens: no more upgrades! Yay! :)

huhn

2nd August 2019, 13:13

aren't most titles 2D anyway and are just run through a filter to make them 3D... not sure i would understand this as producing titles just because there filter is better then the filter in end devices.

maybe it has been confirm but what if envy doesn't support 3D? i wouldn't blame him.

just to make one thing clear removing support for 3D was an terrible move from nvidia they sold dedicated hardware that only works with nvidia cards created a brand 3D monitors which can do frame packed 1080p60 or even more. it is fine if they stop producing 3D glasses and stuff but removing driver support to make this hardware intentional useless is sadly not criminal but should be specifically for a rich company like nvidia.

nevcairiel

2nd August 2019, 13:35

aren't most titles 2D anyway and are just run through a filter to make them 3D... not sure i would understand this as producing titles just because there filter is better then the filter in end devices.

Its not just a filter, but a half-manual conversion to 3D by video engineers (defining depth planes for different scenes, etc), but regardless the number of movies actually good in 3D is very minimal, in my experience from cinema viewing (inlcuding IMAX). Very few live action movies, everything else is animation where you get 3D for free. The industry never took 3D seriously, because it was just too expensive to produce in 3D, so its an afterthought for 99% of all (live action) movies.

brazen1

2nd August 2019, 16:30

I don't care how studios process 3D titles or what kind of cameras were used. I'm just glad they keep releasing them one after the other while the masses tell me the format is dead because 3D TV's aren't made anymore. Imo, on my 4k display, scaled to fit, they look very, very, very, good. I have never witnessed a bad one. Not even the ones declared unwatchable due to bad post processing or some such opinion. In my experience, I'd say the vast majority were worth 3D releases. Not the other way around, but that's just my opinion. I do not replace 3D titles released in UHD. I prefer to watch a title in 3D rather than UHD. No one is going to convince me UHD achieves a richer experience especially my eyes having viewed both on true 4k 3D hardware. I understand native 1080p PJ hardware folks and their big screens might struggle to reproduce the same results and why they form their opinions. Dropping 3D driver support by nVidia feels like a spiteful kick in the ass for no good reason other than a show of power and influence. When I upgrade to 8k and retrofit my shiny new AMD card into my HTPC, I'll be thinking about that kick in the ass thingy.

NikosD

2nd August 2019, 19:39

The fact that projectors and BD still support 3D, doesn't really change the other fact that 3D is generally dead.

The market of 3D right now is a niche, but someone with 300 BD 3D movies could possibly not care a lot regarding the future of 3D movies.

But that doesn't mean that 3D is not dead in general, because it is.

Just not for him and a few others.

brazen1

2nd August 2019, 23:46

(34) 3D titles released last year. It was declared dead then too as it was the year before that and the year before that and the year before that...

This year 2019 (half way into it) we have another 28.

Yep, dead as a door nail. Oh yeah, in general. LoL.

huhn

3rd August 2019, 00:17

you are aware that there are quite a lot of BD releases and i'm pretty sure there are more then 38 DVD releases compare that to the number of 3D BD sales...

so calling 3D BD dead which is pretty much loosing all of is hardware support isn't far off.

SamuriHL

3rd August 2019, 02:21

It's why I moved my Sony x700 UHD player to my Panny plasma. I can watch my many 3D movies that way. I gave up on trying to keep a madvr enabled device on that TV unfortunately.

NikosD

3rd August 2019, 07:15

Manni

3rd August 2019, 08:03

@brazen1

You made me count BD releases only (without counting DVD releases) for the first 3 months of 2018 and I found them around 1200 from blu-ray.com

So, for the whole year 2018 could be around 5000 BD releases.

3D titles releases, you said they were 34 for the whole 2018.

So, BD 3D titles represent 0,7% of the whole BD releases for 2018.

Thank you for your argument.

3D is more dead than dead, eventually.

This is a very poor argument, because even when 3D BD was alive, the number of titles was very limited too. Few titles deserve a 3D BD version, and certainly not most of the crap in those 5,000 titles a year, which is for the most part low budget kitchen sink drama. I don't want to watch these in 2D, why would I want to watch them in 3D?

I really don't get why people who clearly don't like 3D are so against it. You don't like 3D? That's fine, no one forces you to watch it. But declaring it dead is not only wrong factually (as long as there are releases, it's not "dead"), but irrelevant. For those who do enjoy 3D, there is a need to be able to play their collection.

So nVidia's move is beyond dumb. Sure, I understand that they don't want to support their pointless proprietary 3D system, but to pull the plug on MVC 3D is stupid. It doesn't cost them anything to keep support in their drivers "as is", it's always been poor anyway compared to AMD, so it's not as if they were spending lots of time on it, but at least it keeps the possibility to play 3D, even if it's considered legacy.

How many DVDs have you bought in the last 5 years? I haven't bought any, but I do want to be able to play my "dead" DVDs. It's not because they keep releasing titles in that format for those who don't care about picture quality that I don't want to play those that I have that will never be re-released on bluray. Yet no one here is suggesting to get rid of DVD support.

It's the same with DVD Audio, SACD, etc. It's not because only a small minority enjoys a small number of titles that getting rid of support for these titles would be a good idea. I don't have a single SACD or DVD Audio title that I listen to, but I wouldn't rejoyce if support for these was taken away, and I wouldn't try to alienate users of these format if they didn't feel happy about that, by telling them that these formats are "dead".

There is no way to defend nVidia's decision, especially when AMD keeps supporting 3D, which proves it's not an OS limitation.

Only the 3D haters, who feel smug because they never cared (I would guess they either can't enjoy 3D due to physiological reasons or they haven't seen it done properly on a recent projector on a large screen) can side with nVidia on that decision.

My next GPU for my HTPC will be an AMD, unless I've found a better source by then. My Oppo 203 clone is still the strongest candidate, it works great with the superb MyMovies interface on the iPad, except with 3D titles that work fine but I still have to use the Oppo's limited interface for these. 3D playback is rock stable (unless the HTPC) and spectacular, as with 2D. I only need the Envy to tonemap HDR and it can become my main player, at least for DVD, BD, and UHD BD.

There is no way the Envy won't support 3D, at least in pass-through, or it's dead in the water. There are a lot of enthusiasts who love 3D, they won't like it if putting the Envy in the video chain means no 3D anymore.

If nVidia was providing better drivers and had kept supporting 3D, I wouldn't be looking for a better source, but I'm really fed up with the poor quality of nVidia's drivers for HTPC use. Functionality is going down, not up, which proves that they don't care about that (small) segment of their market, as the kiling of 3D MVC support shows.

jespermart

3rd August 2019, 10:02

This is a very poor argument, because even when 3D BD was alive, the number of titles was very limited too. Few titles deserve a 3D BD version, and certainly not most of the crap in those 5,000 titles a year, which is for the most part low budget kitchen sink drama. I don't want to watch these in 2D, why would I want to watch them in 3D?

I really don't get why people who clearly don't like 3D are so against it. You don't like 3D? That's fine, no one forces you to watch it. But declaring it dead is not only wrong factually (as long as there are releases, it's not "dead"), but irrelevant. For those who do enjoy 3D, there is a need to be able to play their collection.

So nVidia's move is beyond dumb. Sure, I understand that they don't want to support their pointless proprietary 3D system, but to pull the plug on MVC 3D is stupid. It doesn't cost them anything to keep support in their drivers "as is", it's always been poor anyway compared to AMD, so it's not as if they were spending lots of time on it, but at least it keeps the possibility to play 3D, even if it's considered legacy.

How many DVDs have you bought in the last 5 years? I haven't bought any, but I do want to be able to play my "dead" DVDs. It's not because they keep releasing titles in that format for those who don't care about picture quality that I don't want to play those that I have that will never be re-released on bluray. Yet no one here is suggesting to get rid of DVD support.

It's the same with DVD Audio, SACD, etc. It's not because only a small minority enjoys a small number of titles that getting rid of support for these titles would be a good idea. I don't have a single SACD or DVD Audio title that I listen to, but I wouldn't rejoyce if support for these was taken away, and I wouldn't try to alienate users of these format if they didn't feel happy about that, by telling them that these formats are "dead".

There is no way to defend nVidia's decision, especially when AMD keeps supporting 3D, which proves it's not an OS limitation.

Only the 3D haters, who feel smug because they never cared (I would guess they either can't enjoy 3D due to physiological reasons or they haven't seen it done properly on a recent projector on a large screen) can side with nVidia on that decision.

My next GPU for my HTPC will be an AMD, unless I've found a better source by then. My Oppo 203 clone is still the strongest candidate, it works great with the superb MyMovies interface on the iPad, except with 3D titles that work fine but I still have to use the Oppo's limited interface for these. 3D playback is rock stable (unless the HTPC) and spectacular, as with 2D. I only need the Envy to tonemap HDR and it can become my main player, at least for DVD, BD, and UHD BD.

There is no way the Envy won't support 3D, at least in pass-through, or it's dead in the water. There are a lot of enthusiasts who love 3D, they won't like it if putting the Envy in the video chain means no 3D anymore.

If nVidia was providing better drivers and had kept supporting 3D, I wouldn't be looking for a better source, but I'm really fed up with the poor quality of nVidia's drivers for HTPC use. Functionality is going down, not up, which proves that they don't care about that (small) segment of their market, as the kiling of 3D MVC support shows.

I also do not understand people's attitude to 3d, the only reason I can see must be that they have not seen 3d on a large canvas with a jvc projector. It is perfectly understandable that 3D is dead on TV since TV is too small to make 3D convincing, but on a proper projector setup the experience is fantastic. I prefer to watch the new movies coming in 3d in 3d instead of the 4k release simply because I find the experience in 3d far more compelling and engaging than 4k.
And I have changed my Nvidia RTX2080ti to the new AMD 5700XT because of the lagging 3d driver support from nVidia

NikosD

3rd August 2019, 11:34

@manni

I agree in most of your post, but I've already said "a niche market"

I'm not a 3D hater, just not interested.

nVidia is very well known about its agreesive attitude against its opponents and against what it's been considered "legacy" , "old" or just not very successful by nVidia.

I'm the last one that I will defend nVidia on any of these.

But I do think that Windows XP are dead, Windows 10 32bit are dead and 3D is dead or "dead" anyway.

huhn

3rd August 2019, 13:48

I also do not understand people's attitude to 3d, the only reason I can see must be that they have not seen 3d on a large canvas with a jvc projector. It is perfectly understandable that 3D is dead on TV since TV is too small to make 3D convincing, but on a proper projector setup the experience is fantastic.

they do it in cinemas you know the screen can be quite big...
and do you know that even a 21 zoll screen can be to big it's not size that matters it's the relative distance.

and well you know there was at least one TV released( there are much more prototypes) with 3D without the need of glasses can you claim this luxury with a projector? it's not that simple.

This is a very poor argument, because even when 3D BD was alive, the number of titles was very limited too. Few titles deserve a 3D BD version, and certainly not most of the crap in those 5,000 titles a year, which is for the most part low budget kitchen sink drama. I don't want to watch these in 2D, why would I want to watch them in 3D?

it's fine that you don't want to watch "budget kitchen sink drama" and so it is fine that people don't want 3D but deserving 3D? 3D could be done with SD broadcast with stuff that may not even come to a DVD it's not like it is super super expensive.

How many DVDs have you bought in the last 5 years? I haven't bought any, but I do want to be able to play my "dead" DVDs. It's not because they keep releasing titles in that format for those who don't care about picture quality that I don't want to play those that I have that will never be re-released on bluray. Yet no one here is suggesting to get rid of DVD support.

sorry bringing up DVD was pretty much a bait:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13974/samsung-to-cease-selling-blu-ray-players-in-the-us
that's reality do i understand it nope but i still have to live with it.
so breaking DVD support (i don't even see a way to do it) would create more angry nvidia user then removing 3D that doesn't make it right obviously.

brazen1

3rd August 2019, 19:58

Up next...
Avengers: End Game (2019)
3D region free BluRay
1080p.3D.BluRay.AVC.DTS-HD.MA.7.1
via Nvidia driver version 416.81 using DVDFab 11.0.3.9
Sep 2, 2019

Manni

3rd August 2019, 19:59

I only used DVD ps as an example because I’m sure pretty much everyone around here has stopped buying them a while ago, even if it’s still mom and pop’s preferred medium. Never said it was more popular than bluray overall. All disc formats are soon to be “dead”. That doesn’t mean I don’t want to be able to play them. I stocked up 3D Blurays because it’s clear they will stop at some point, and I’m doing the same with UHD Bluray, because that won’t go on forever, given that most people seem to prefer the convenience of streaming over PQ an AQ.

Still, I want to be able to play all my titles. Unless pq and aq catches up, I’ll still prefer to watch predictable, best possible quality, own ripped media than downgraded streamed content that can disappear any day as you never own it, even when you “buy” it. So yes, I’ll chose the source that allows me to play all my content, and while my 1080ti with 398.11 allows me to do that, it’s not the case of any of the nVidia RTX GPUs given that they solved the HDR metadata issue with the drivers that killed 3D MVC playback.

They could at least have given us ONE driver without a dealbreaker, but no, they just don’t care about HTPC content. So my money isn’t going to go there when I next upgrade my HTPC. That and the dropped frames without custom refresh rates just makes them unfit for purpose.

nevcairiel

3rd August 2019, 20:06

huhn

3rd August 2019, 20:38

there HD3D pages already dead that there name for 3D. polaris was sold with an info about VP9 http://i.imgur.com/AaVqVKv.png to bad it's not really available how many years has it been?

i don't see anyone here that sees a problem with using 3D and stop upgrading/ buying different hardware because they use it it would be insane to me to not do that if you really want 3D. i'm simply can't hear 3D is great your setup suxx "argument" anymore.

and even through i don't want to be the guy but technically 3D BD still works in 2d so the disc is not useless at least...

and yes HTPC usage is very unimportant for NVIDIA and AMD.
if they fix HDR they mostly do that for gmaes if they fix something with decoding that mostly done for web browser use.

BTW. did someone try this: http://helixmod.blogspot.com/2017/05/3d-fix-manager.html

huhn

3rd August 2019, 21:24

got my TV into 3D mode just running madVR with a 3d test file so there is hope madVR didn't use frmaepacked for some reason and the OS doesn't show the 3D option but my nvidia card is clearly outputting 3D and there build in test was outputting 3D too.

so guess there is hope.

Manni

3rd August 2019, 23:09

BTW. did someone try this: http://helixmod.blogspot.com/2017/05/3d-fix-manager.html

Change Notes Version 1.69 (March 14, 2019):
New: VERY IMPORTANT!!! PLEASE READ!!! Added an info that Nvidia dropped 3D Vision support (future graphics drivers don't support stereo 3D any more). A dialog window informing users about this and what to do is automatically shown when starting 3D Fix Manager

Would be interesting to know what the advice is. Anyone with an RTX driver willing to try?

Manni

3rd August 2019, 23:13

AMD doesn't care for HTPC either (or prime media playback support in general), their media support has been appalling for years now, they just didn't accidentally break anything recently (nevermind that they still don't even have a card to match a 1080 Ti). HTPC was always a hard fight.

And that's why 1) I'm not upgrading yet and 2) I can't wait to leave the HTPC platform. If no GPU manufacturer are able to deliver the goods for HTPC users, then I'm gone as soon as the Envy lands. AMD still has 3D support and as I remember, does perfect 23p without the need for custom refresh rates, unlike nVidia. They did mess video levels in their new drivers after Catalyst, and that was one of the reasons why I switched to nVidia at the time.

huhn

4th August 2019, 00:09

i did try it and i got nothing.

Plutotype

17th August 2019, 15:14

Folks,
I cant get a working 23.976Hz refresh with madvr custom resolution tool. Im on GTX1060 driver 431.60, Windows 10 version 1903 and I have a 1080p 8bit SDR SONY LCD TV from 2012.

I was on 388.13 for a long time, but in past month or so there was an Windows 1903 update which ( most probably ) changed things. First, the customer resolution was ignored ( and defaulted to 23.971Hz ) and when I wanted to customize it I couldnt reach anything closer than 23.97732Hz in OSD with composition rate 23.976 in OSD. This gives me 12 minutes for a frame repeat ( 10 stutters per 2 hour movie ), which is not good.
This is what I see:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mZJmJ4K6f8dENBp-Jefs61d5Yb9wDwgd/view?usp=sharing

What are my options to get 23.976Hz and no frame drops/repeates for multiple hours? ?

Klaus1189

17th August 2019, 16:07

How long did you play a file? Maybe madVR can calculate the dropped and repeated frames more accurate when playback is running for a longer time. For example at least 30 minutes.

Plutotype

17th August 2019, 18:48

How long did you play a file? Maybe madVR can calculate the dropped and repeated frames more accurate when playback is running for a longer time. For example at least 30 minutes.

I have watched 2 movies today and there were multiple repeated frames, which is in hand with the statistics done by the madvr OSD. The question is whether this can be improved by editing the porch/pixelclock parameters somehow or use older GPU driver.

Asmodian

18th August 2019, 19:41

I think you might have misunderstood Klaus1189's comment.

When tuning the settings for your custom resolution make sure to watch a full 2h movie without pausing or seeking. A pause or seek will reset the calculations and the longer you run the more accurate the calculations.

In addition, if you watch anything madVR will still calculate new settings, it is constantly calculating optimal settings but your resolution is only updated if you do it manually.

Edit: These new settings can/will be worse than your current settings if you watched something for a long time to setup your custom resolution originally, they don't get more and more accurate. I often get my best results using my display's standard settings, watching a two hour video, and then using what madVR calculates. Trying to further tune that custom resolution often has worse results.

NikosD

20th August 2019, 11:09

Nvidia GeForce 436.02 WHQL driver, available at 6AM PDT. From marketing perspective, it looks like a milestone driver release.

SamuriHL

20th August 2019, 12:43

There's nothing in that driver, at least from the article, that benefits us. More stuff that could potentially break what we're doing though...

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el Filou

20th August 2019, 19:43

integer scaling is a good way to check if you're seating too far away from your UHD TV to actually see any difference from 1080p. :D ;)

SamuriHL

20th August 2019, 19:56

ROFLMAO! Um, yea, I suppose it could be used for that.....OY! LOL

NikosD

21st August 2019, 10:11

TBH, the last few years I had only bought an AMD card (RX 470 8GB) that I gave it to my brother for BDO.

It's been years since my last nVidia card, so for the first time I tried to use "GeForce Experience" with my GT 1660 as I read that nVidia made mandatory its installation using the mentioned above driver, by accident of course that it has already fixed.

Oh God!

Those nVidia bastards have made mandatory to create an account in nVidia, just to use a few more features of the driver that they are calling "GeForce Experience"

Yes, features like Ansel, ShadowPlay (highlights), FreeStyle or Optimized Game Settings for the lazy ones, could be fun but not that fun if you need one more account added in your collection.

THEY ARE JUST DRIVER FEATURES.

From what I read regarding nVidia's telemetry and other "hidden" installations during driver installation, I am really looking forward to get the stable version of NVCleanstall of techpowerup here:
https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/nvcleanstall-clean-installer-for-nvidia-drivers-alpha.249085/

huhn

21st August 2019, 11:06

you don't have to create an account you can use an "existing one".
every proper game does "optimisation" by it self.

tech company's are currently very busy beating each other in making money with data like voice recording, telemetry you name it they collect it.

how could you miss turing integar scaling there is no way you can't do that without turing card!

Retro and Pixel Art games like FTL, Hotline Miami, and Terarria are loved by many in our GeForce community. When played on higher-resolution displays, though, many pixel art games have to scale to fit the display, resulting in a blurry image. To address this, our community requested an image scaling mode called Integer Scaling, which preserves detail on pixel-art games when the resolution is increased.

Well, weÂ’ve heard the call, and thanks to a hardware-accelerated programmable scaling filter available in Turing, GPU Integer Scaling is finally possible!
sure nvidia sure.

welcome to the feature.

SamuriHL

21st August 2019, 12:16

I know I laughed so hard when I read that. Woooo amazing "new" scaling tech. Maybe we can convince madshi to add it as a scaler! Lmao

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el Filou

21st August 2019, 16:15

btw there's also a new HDMI audio driver (1.3.38.21) in 436.02, if anyone encountering audio bugs wanted to try.

Númenórean

25th August 2019, 14:39

Thank God I found this thread!!

I've been thru hell and back trying to deal with nvidia drivers on my PNY GTX 1070 OC gpu on Windows 10 64bit 1903.
If it wasent pink screen it was not passing HDR metadata, I was loosing it thinking the settings on madvr where to aggressive and so on..
https://i.postimg.cc/nX53yVPs/20190821-132434.jpg (https://postimg.cc/nX53yVPs)https://i.postimg.cc/qt314fP1/20190821-132455.jpg (https://postimg.cc/qt314fP1)

I ended up using 398.11 as the newest(430.39) thats supposed to support did not work(RTX).

Thank You Klaus1189 :thanks:

Klaus1189

26th August 2019, 05:19

You‘re welcome :)

gbickle

26th August 2019, 23:55

I Upgraded to 436.02 on Windows 10 1903.

I seem to be getting zero banding on HDR now with MadVR. Not sure if its windows updates or Nvidia that sorted the issue. (GTX 1060 6gb)

Anyone else finding it all ok now?

Klaus1189

27th August 2019, 05:11

AMD Radeon 19.8.2 driver released.

SamuriHL

27th August 2019, 16:42

I wouldn't say that. Looks like some interesting changes for encoding. Not a playback thing for us here but something I use my htpc for quite regularly. I wonder how much that'll improve the speed.

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huhn

27th August 2019, 16:49

did they just add support for hardware 3d encoding?

SamuriHL

27th August 2019, 18:08

Why do you say that?

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SamuriHL

27th August 2019, 22:27

This is the part I was referring to:

Added driver support for Video Codec SDK 9.1

Added a new NVENCODE API to more detailed error reporting.
Added support for CUStream in NVENCODE API to facilitate parallel execution of pre-/post-processing of video on CUDA and encoder tasks.
Implemented bug-fixes and API enhancement to support H.264 MVC encoding.

Probably not helpful for playback on HTPC, but, for those of us that use hardware encoding it could be useful I think.

huhn

28th August 2019, 00:58

h264 MVC is the format used for 3D.

SamuriHL

28th August 2019, 02:03

Ah, yea, that's true, I wasn't paying close enough attention. Maybe. I know Elby is working on 3D encoding support and they make heavy use of the NVEncode API. Could be coincidental timing. :D

huhn

29th August 2019, 02:04

yeah that's great i guess to dumb nvidia can't output 3d.

SamuriHL

29th August 2019, 04:19

Tell me about it. They never bothered adding support for it on the shield either. I may rebuild my old htpc with the 1060 for the plasma and use an old driver. I've not decided yet.

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j82k

29th August 2019, 16:33

Anyone using the latest nvidia driver (436.15) with a custom resolution?
Once I have created a custom resolution through either CRU or the nvidia control panel and switch resolution or refresh rate, the color output setting are just gone. These settings will only come back when I restart windows and when I change anything they will be gone again...

https://i.imgur.com/JKo3khV.jpg

quietvoid

29th August 2019, 19:22

j82k

30th August 2019, 00:47

Thanks just did exactly that and it seems like it's working for now. Not sure what exactly fixed it. I didn't even know you could install drivers in safe mode

Calvi

30th August 2019, 09:07

Thought I would chime in with my RTX2070 experiences for those still having stuttering issues (if there are any left). This is the famous stutter that does not drop frames but is unmissable if you have it. I use a small 1080p 23.976 clip of rolling credits as a test video. With this test video if the driver/settings are stuttering then it looks like it jumps about 3 frames every few seconds. If a particular driver or setting fixes it then it is smooth as silk, I never find anything makes it a bit better or worse, just there or not there. It is present in most 23-24hz files I have but does not show up in my 25 and 50hz tv recordings for whatever reason.

Experiences thus far:

Windows 10:1809
418.91 was the only driver that did not stutter without any other settings required.
Other drivers would stutter unless v-sync on, or advance frames set to 1 or DX11 turned off. Adaptive power made no difference in any of the cases nor did G-Sync.

Windows 10:1903
418.91 did not stutter but then struck nvidia container cpu useage issues so figured I would update the driver anyway.
Windows installed 419.17 automatically after I removed 418.91. This driver did not stutter with just v-sync on.
I removed this driver and disabled internet connection to then install 431.36
431.36, 436.02 & 436.15 All Stutters whether v-sync is on or not or whether standard or DCH version. Turning how many video frames shall be presented in advance to 1 stops the stutter for this driver (for me) for both Windowed and Exclusive Mode.

Other things I tried in 431.36: Standard vs DCH, V-sync, adaptive power, not installing usb-c drivers, not installing audio drivers etc and only the video frame setting (or no DX11) stopped the stutter.

Also I cannot get Mad-VR exclusive to work if windows desktop is set to HDR. Windowed works ok this way. If desktop is set to SDR (HDR off) then both windowed and exclusive mode work fine. This does not affect the stutter though.

Does anyone know if there are any downsides to only presenting 1 frame in advance? because otherwise it seems like a good solution for me (until fixed/or not in a later driver or madvr).

SamuriHL

30th August 2019, 12:53

That's the experience that many of us rtx owners have had. I turn off d3d11 and keep everything else the same. Present frame set to 1 probably has the potential for dropped frames but I don't recall seeing any in my testing.

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garson

30th August 2019, 16:35

Not just RTX. I wrote about this in madvr topic, didn't get any help. But at least now I have some clue. So thanks Calvi and SamuriHL for this. :)
I have GT1030 with some 3xx driver (can't remember now which one, I can check later), and exactly the same issue, 0 dropped, 0 delayed frames, 0 glitches but occasionally I see stuttering as well, especially in scenes when camera goes quickly over some landscape or credit screen as well. And it is random, if that happens I go back a bit, and next time that scene is perfectly fine.
I am on Windows 10 2016 LTSB x64, I was about to update driver to latest 436.15 as this annoys me for some time.

As for those options, disabling D3D11 for presentation in madvr, how does D3D11 compares to D3D9 for madvr?
Also, I will try with present 1 frame in advance.

SamuriHL

30th August 2019, 16:39

That is a very different issue to what we're talking about on the RTX. You're talking about judder in panning shots which has many different causes. We're talking about CONSISTENT every frame skipping. For your issue, you can try smooth motion and see if that helps. It could also be indicative of the 1030 getting overloaded in certain complex scenes. The RTX issue isn't random at all, and seeking does nothing to help it.

garson

30th August 2019, 16:58

This is interesting, thanks anyway.
smooth motion is on in my setup.
As for overloading of GPU, shouldn't I see dropped frames in that case? If I bump up upscaling settings (or similar) I clearly see dropped frames.
That's why this is so annoying for me. Rendering times look fine, around 25-30ms for 23.976fps 1080p.

Anyway, I will try with present 1 frame in advance, and some of latest drivers, current one is more than 1 year old.

SamuriHL

30th August 2019, 17:15

Harumi

30th August 2019, 17:33

Hello, just one amateurish question:
IF I turn on the Integer Scaling in the new Nvidia driver, will this override my current MadVr settings?
Basically, I want to try Integer scaling, as I use a lot of emulators and mostly watch 1080p/720p videos on my 4k screen.
I have a lot of 4k material also, so just want to be sure.

Thanks

garson

30th August 2019, 17:36

As I said, judder in panning shots is a very complicated topic and no single thing causes it. Even on my 2070 with my OLED I will get it depending on the shot (mainly because the OLED is so damn fast at refreshing the screen...there's very little lag). Smooth motion should be helping. However, I have read that if your screen is native 60hz refresh and you're trying to drive it at 23.976 that could cause it to be more pronounced. Try smooth motion with 60hz refresh rate and see if that helps. It sounds counter-intuitive I know because the source is 23.976, but, try it and see if it works.
So it sounds that occasional judder is kinda "normal" and expected to see? Just asking, I am far from being expert in these kind of topics (madvr, video, codecs etc.), actually I am an amateur. :D

I will check a bit later but I believe my Samsung TV (LED,50", 1080p) is already at 60Hz.

SamuriHL

30th August 2019, 17:55

What I'm saying is, the resolution on your HTPC should be set to 60hz in order to try this. If you're sending 23.976 to a panel that's natively 60hz the judder can be more pronounced because you're trusting your tv to smooth it for you in those cases. So in madvr, if you're using resolution changing, set it to 60hz and see if that works with smooth motion to correct the judder issues for you.

And yes, panning shots are a pain in the ass for this problem. It's why jackson filmed the hobbit movies in 48hz which I personally loved but made a lot of people sick. LOL

garson

30th August 2019, 18:07

Klaus1189

30th August 2019, 18:29

I believe my Samsung TV (LED,50", 1080p) is already at 60Hz.

Do you use the native refresh rate that matches the framerate of your movie or do you use plain 60 Hz? If you use 60 Hz, do you use it with or without smooth motion in madvr. If without smooth motion, you get 3:2 pulldown which produces judder. Press info on your remote for that info.

Hello, just one amateurish question:
IF I turn on the Integer Scaling in the new Nvidia driver, will this override my current MadVr settings?
Basically, I want to try Integer scaling, as I use a lot of emulators and mostly watch 1080p/720p videos on my 4k screen.
I have a lot of 4k material also, so just want to be sure.

Thanks

Good question, just wait for Nvidia users to chime in ;)

SamuriHL

30th August 2019, 18:34

We don't know how that Integer nonsense impacts madvr if at all. As was mentioned in the madvr thread, Integer scaling is nearest neighbor and was hidden in madvr for good reason. It sucks. LOL I can maybe see the appeal for games which is why I didn't try to answer your specific question. The reality is I have no idea what it'll do with madvr. The worse thing it could do is scale the image before madvr gets a hold of it, and with it turned on....it might.

Asmodian

30th August 2019, 19:06

IF I turn on the Integer Scaling in the new Nvidia driver, will this override my current MadVr settings?

No. It is simply a new GPU scaling option, it works the same as the old scaling option but uses nearest neighbor instead of whatever scaling method the other options use.

It only has any effect when you are using non-native resolution on your display and are using "Perform scaling on: GPU".

Harumi

30th August 2019, 19:40

No. It is simply a new GPU scaling option, it works the same as the old scaling option but uses nearest neighbor instead of whatever scaling method the other options use.

It only has any effect when you are using non-native resolution on your display and are using "Perform scaling on: GPU".

Thanks for the answer.

So even if I enable "Perform scaling on GPU" and "Integer Scaling" options, madVR will be unaffected.

For example, it will play 1080p video on 4k monitor without affecting the MVr settings and the (chosen) picture quality? I am playing all my video files via MPC-BE player.

As I have many video materials that are not 4k, I am always on non-native resolution.

garson

30th August 2019, 21:10

Do you use the native refresh rate that matches the framerate of your movie or do you use plain 60 Hz? If you use 60 Hz, do you use it with or without smooth motion in madvr. If without smooth motion, you get 3:2 pulldown which produces judder. Press info on your remote for that info.
Just checked, 1080p60, madvr also reports 60Hz for refresh rate.
TV supports 23,24,25,30,50,59 and 60Hz, at least that is what I see in NV Control Panel.
Smooth motion is on.
So you guys would suggest to leave settings as they are now?
:thanks:

Klaus1189

30th August 2019, 21:24

garson

30th August 2019, 21:36

It depends on your personal taste.
Some like smooth motion interpolation, some don‘t.
I personally do like native refresh rate usage. For that the matching refresh rate is applied to get native framerate displayed on your display.
For that I would need to add into madvr, in Display modes, into list something like:
1080p23,1080p24,1080p25,1080p30,1080p50,1080p59,1080p60

Right?

And 23.976fps at 1080p is 1080p23?

:thanks:

Klaus1189

30th August 2019, 21:47

1080p23 is for 23.976 fps
1080p24 is for 24.000 fps
1080p50 is for 25.000 fps and 50.000 fps
1080p59 is for 29.970 fps and 59.940 fps
1080p60 is for 30.000 fps and 60.000 fps
This way interlaced content is properly displayed as interlacing should double the „motion resolution“.

garson

30th August 2019, 21:54

Asmodian

30th August 2019, 21:56

garson

30th August 2019, 22:10

Sadly refresh rates are usually not accurate enough by default to use without a lot of dropped or repeated frames. Unless you tune custom refresh rates I think 60 Hz with smooth motion is a better option.

Let madVR upscale 720p! Your display isn't going to do nearly as good a job.
Since I never tried this, I am gonna give it a go, to see how it works. So far I was at 1080p60 with smooth motion on, 0 dropped and repeated frames but occasional stuttering on those scene. :rolleyes:
Yeah, I upscale 720p with Lanczos 3 taps and antiringing filter which is I think best that GT1030 can handle. :)

Klaus1189

30th August 2019, 22:13

No you don‘t need that for 720p. As Asmodian mentioned, let madVR do the upscaling for best results, but for first tests in terms of motion, simply add the resolution and refresh rate combos in madVR and test. Then you know what you like better, soap opera effect or native refresh rates.

Asmodian is one of the guys who do like smooth motion ;)

For the usage of native refresh rates, be sure to turn off Motion interpolation in your TV to get true results. If it is enabled the TV will do the same as smooth motion in madVR but will create some stutters when scenes change, the built in motion interpolation on TVs is limited.

garson

30th August 2019, 22:24

No you don‘t need that for 720p. As Asmodian mentioned, let madVR do the upscaling for best results, but for first tests in terms of motion, simply add the resolution and refresh rate combos in madVR and test. Then you know what you like better, soap opera effect or native refresh rates.
Right, just these 1080p profiles and madvr will upscale 720p. :)
In madvr I set upscaling using Lanczos 3 taps.

For the usage of native refresh rates, be sure to turn off Motion interpolation in your TV to get true results. If it is enabled the TV will do the same as smooth motion in madVR but will create some stutters when scenes change, the built in motion interpolation on TVs is limited.
I just took a look in Samsung menu, I see Motion Plus submenu, and Judder reduction inside, set to 0. So should be turned off. :)

:thanks:

Asmodian

30th August 2019, 23:08

Asmodian is one of the guys who do like smooth motion ;)

It's true. ;)

If it is enabled the TV will do the same as smooth motion in madVR but will create some stutters when scenes change, the built in motion interpolation on TVs is limited.

Smooth motion in madVR is VERY different from the motion interpolation in TVs. I do not like or use any of the motion interpolation methods I have tested, on a TV, or via SVP, etc.

Smooth motion is a simple method of displaying one frame rate on a different refresh rate without motion judder, it is not doing any kind of motion interpolation.

garson

31st August 2019, 01:50

@Asmodian and Klaus1189
I just watched ~2h movie, 1080p and 23.976fps, with madvr doing display mode change.
It was really good, natural and fluent, no judder at all. :) Hope it will stay that way. When doing pause/resume, I can see 8-10 repeated frames, no big deal, other than that there were ~5 repeated frames during those 2 hours, 0 dropped frames. Which is very good, I would say.
Also, I noticed rendering times are 5-6ms lower, which is also good, and comes from smooth motion being off, I guess?
I'm gonna stick with this, and see how it goes, but first movie went really good.

SamuriHL

31st August 2019, 02:57

ashlar42

31st August 2019, 11:17

When doing pause/resume, I can see 8-10 repeated framesThat's completely normal and unavoidable, as far as I know. It's also unnoticeable.

garson

31st August 2019, 19:00

That's awesome news! Yea, I'm one of those that run at the native refresh rate of the video I'm watching, as well. Sometimes it takes some messing around to get the timings just right. I've not done custom timing for my RTX yet. Now that we have a long weekend I may get around to it and see what I can do. But it sounds like you ended up in a good place!
Yeah.
I'm gonna try with some image enhancements, since I am on default values at the moment. I think I have some more power in this GPU, since rendering times are around 22ms. :)
Probably will try with sharpen edges and AdaptiveSharpen.

SamuriHL

31st August 2019, 19:33

See, now you're getting to the fun stuff! Enjoy!!

garson

31st August 2019, 19:42

See, now you're getting to the fun stuff! Enjoy!!
Not sure I'm gonna enjoy it actually. :D
I am just reading Asmodian's topic, and I see in his both settings, Max and Low, he is not using using processing at all (artifact removal and image enhacements). :confused:
I already had Reduce banding artifacts set to medium/medium and reduce compression artifacts enabled.
Is this hurting image quality actually?

SamuriHL

31st August 2019, 19:54

We may want to move this discussion to the madr or madvr general thread since it's getting wildly off topic here. However, those options are all going to be a matter of personal preference and what YOU like or dislike in the image quality you get by using, or not using, them. I don't have any post image processing enhancements enabled myself. The only image enhancements I really do are in HDR processing I tend to favor strong highlight recovery. But that's to correct things that are lost while tone mapping so it's a very different kind of beast. But you will have to determine for yourself with your own eyes what looks best to you. That's why I said you're getting to the fun stuff because it's a matter of turning something on or off and comparing it and seeing what you prefer. Then once you get what you think is dialed in, watch a whole movie and see if you enjoy the experience. If not, tweak it a bit more until you find your preferences. Yes, it takes time. Yes, it's completely worth it. Once you have it dialed in, I've not seen anything that compares to madvr in terms of picture quality.

garson

31st August 2019, 20:01

Klaus1189

31st August 2019, 20:26

You‘re welcome ;)

garson

31st August 2019, 20:36

Guys, sorry, maybe a small offtopic again :o, but kinda related to nVidia.
Currently, what is prefered HW decoder? I am finding opposite opinions, CUVID vs DXVA2 copy back. I am using CUVID for years now.

SamuriHL

31st August 2019, 20:57

D3d11.

garson

31st August 2019, 21:38

D3d11.
:thanks:

Asmodian

31st August 2019, 21:51

For Native it is D3D11, for copyback D3D11 and DXVA2 are equally good.

webbo

2nd September 2019, 23:43

Hello everyone
Despite wanting the best for HDR Passthrough, I'm also a casual gamer and in need of the latest drivers (usually...)

Can someone point of HDR passthrough for these versions, please?
436.15 - 2019-08-27
436.02 - 2019-08-20

Is it accurate or bogus metadata is sent?
I honestly can't tell myself
Thanks a lot :)

nevcairiel

3rd September 2019, 08:56

I honestly can't tell myself

If you can't tell the difference, does it then actually matter?

Calvi

3rd September 2019, 13:53

For HW decoder (LAV) I find only CUVID deinterlaces my DTV recordings properly (with vector adaptive set)

Render times are all about the same and quality of CUVID seems as good as D3D11 for progressive sources.

garson

3rd September 2019, 20:41

For me, CUVID gives about 1.5-2ms better render times (on GT1030), cpu usage is about same, video mem usage is ~50MB bigger with CUVID, compared to D3D11. For now I stick to CUVID.

el Filou

4th September 2019, 00:06

For HW decoder (LAV) I find only CUVID deinterlaces my DTV recordings properly (with vector adaptive set)What GPU? CUVID and DXVA use the exact same hardware deinterlacing. Something somewhere must be wrong with your software config.

Calvi

4th September 2019, 15:31

That’s what I thought too.
GPU is RTX 2070, I get different results with CUVID vs DXVA. Will try again when I get some more time to experiment.

Klaus1189

4th September 2019, 17:18

New Studio Driver 431.86

ryrynz

4th September 2019, 22:31

For me, CUVID gives about 1.5-2ms better render times

Render times don't tell you much without you knowing the current clock speeds.

clsid

4th September 2019, 23:13

CUVID makes the GPU run at highest clock speed. Even when unnecessary.

DXVA2/CUVID/D3D11 all use the exact same hardware decoder on the GPU. The only difference is the "wrapper" around it.

ryrynz

4th September 2019, 23:32

Garson, as a result of the above you are actually LESS efficient using this and since that was your attraction to using it, you should actually stop using it.

garson

5th September 2019, 23:34

Render times don't tell you much without you knowing the current clock speeds.
They are the same, max boost clock speed of GT1030, something above 1500Mhz.
I run GPU-Z to see gpu temp, usage etc.
Garson, as a result of the above you are actually LESS efficient using this and since that was your attraction to using it, you should actually stop using it.
What result?

webbo

5th September 2019, 23:46

If you can't tell the difference, does it then actually matter?

Well, yes, since to an untrained eye, it "could" look good, but it doesn't
After seeing the first post on this thread, i'm actually aware that new drivers can have a faulty API and transit bogus metadata.

Sticking with 430.39 for the moment :)

ryrynz

5th September 2019, 23:51

What result?

Read the above post hence "the above"

garson

6th September 2019, 01:45

Read the above post hence "the above"
I saw that post from clsid.
But as I said result on my computer is different.
I did try with D3D11 mostly to lower GPU usage and thermal dissipation (as my GT1030 is passively cooled) but nothing changed. :confused:

ryrynz

6th September 2019, 04:27

NikosD

6th September 2019, 06:24

CUVID works always at maximum 3D clocks, all the time and it feels like a tad faster than any other decoder.

Also, CUVID exposes more codecs than D3D11 or DXVA2 like MPEG4 ASP (divx) and others, although not very common nowadays.

el Filou

6th September 2019, 12:05

The result isn't different because you haven't looked at your clock speeds at all. What do you meant by nothing changed? You're just looking at render times yeah? Trust me, you have zero reason to use CUVID.garson looked at the clocked speeds and said they were the same, so presumably it's a situation where rendering itself maxes out the GPU even with DXVA. With such a low power card, maybe it's possible the API could make a small difference even if it's a edge case?

garson

6th September 2019, 13:17

garson looked at the clocked speeds and said they were the same, so presumably it's a situation where rendering itself maxes out the GPU even with DXVA. With such a low power card, maybe it's possible the API could make a small difference even if it's a edge case?
Correct.
I run GPU-Z for 30 minutes and logged results into log file. Then I compared log files, everything looked pretty much same, except for video memory usage (with D3D11 it was ~850MB and with CUVID ~900MB).

littleD

6th September 2019, 16:24

But in dx11 mode, do you use dx11 native or dx11 cb (by choosing card specifically)? Because second way is more memory heavy and thus might choke slower cards with low membus.

clsid

6th September 2019, 17:06

For a proper test you would need to force the GPU to use a fixed clock speed. NVIDIA Inspector tool allow you to do that.

Calvi

9th September 2019, 09:36

I have tried every possible combination I can of CUVID vs DXVA CB & DXVA Native with LAV Filter and Zoomplayer and...

EVR, MadVR, MadVR Deinterlacing ON/Off, Video Forced, Film, Centre or All, Exclusive, Windowed, DX11 Presentation On/Off and...

I cannot get DXVA to deinterlace the same as Cuvid.

Only DXVA Copyback with Software Deinterlacing (Westin or Yadif) looks similar on my Australian DTV broadcasts but this uses more CPU.

Windows also reports ~40% GPU useage for most of these tests (Much lower for EVR of course as MADVR is not scaling etc). I understand the GPU clocks might still be higher for CUVID but its also worth noting my RTX fans do not spin up for any of the tests, CUVID or not.

I can upload a test video if anyone is interested. Perhaps our broadcasts have strange mixed mode but the combing is quite pronounced if not using CUVID or Software Deinterlacing.

Maybe there is something in my setup that does not turn the VA HW deinterlacing on in the renderer?

MADVR shows deinterlacing as on (which looks the same as when its off).

huhn

9th September 2019, 10:45

and you are sure you are not using film mode deinterlacing?

Calvi

9th September 2019, 14:02

Not sure of anything at the moment.

I tried force film and force video and neither makes any difference to the combing during motion.

I also did a bunch of tests with GPU-Z tonight and found that CUVID does not set the clock to max. It does set it higher than the other modes but it still scales with workload.

If I run with Zoomplayer as a small window the clock runs at about 1400, at full screen it goes to 1900.
Also the power used is only ~50w with a small window and goes up to 175w at full screen (3840x2160).

The extra load I would mainly expect to be MadVR scaling workload. (Checking with evr will confirm this next time I have a play around)

So comparing CUVID with dxva2 (and d3d11 for that matter) all ended up around 70% gpu load, all about 160-175watts and all setting the clocks to near max to achieve the MadVR settings I have.

The only difference I am left with is CUVID is not giving me any deinterlacing artifacts.

Calvi

9th September 2019, 14:16

The test clip I am using is a TV show which then has the lotto numbers rolling across the bottom of the screen. These numbers break apart into combed half frames if not using CUVID.

It’s possible that the lotto overlay is a different cadence to the main show. I will need to dissect the clip some more to see what’s actually there. But CUVID definitely handles it correctly whatever it is.

Software deinterlacers also work fine on it.

littleD

9th September 2019, 16:55

Can you upload a sample?

The best way to test HW DXVA deinterlacing us using EVR renderer, or EVR custom if you need some statistics.

Calvi

10th September 2019, 03:24

littleD

10th September 2019, 20:18

Here is a sample (~110mb), at the 27sec mark the lotto numbers roll in which show combing artifacts with all but CUVID or software deinterlacing for me.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AhrKCcZdae3QgY8Ea9KL8f0CmCHmEA?e=X1c4HK

Note: My setting were:
Splitters : I tried TSREADER from Media Portal & LAV Splitter
Decoders: LAV video decoder DXVA2 CB, DXVA2 Native, D3D11 Native, CUVID
Renderers: EVR, MadVR

Player: zoomplayer.I think its indeed mixed mode interlacing (mbaff). Using lavf (cb mode) and madvr on default do deinterlace correctly on intel. It turns on deinterlacing in madvr statistics. Even if you choose cb mode in lav, also choose specific gpu to decode. That makes you sure to use cb mode.

Calvi

11th September 2019, 03:03

Thanks for taking a look littleD.

I have repeated the same observations on a totally different machine (Laptop with Nvidia 330GT).
I also have repeated the same with MPC-HD instead of Zoomplayer and again only CUVID is 100% working for me.
I also tried LAV output at 25 vs 50 frames, MadVR again as film vs video, forcing deinterlacing in LAV etc.
Results are always the same on both machines even though a huge number of other things are different.

Here are three screen caps from MPC-HC Using GT330 and Internal LAV (0.70.2.1-git)
https://mail.lewis.com.au/public/video/Cuvid-DXVA2.jpg

Note: My main system is RTX2070, driver 436.15 using LAV 0.74 and Zoomplayer 14.5 and this exhibits the same behaviour but the above tests are from my laptop with GT330, driver 341.02, MPC-HC & Internal LAV 0.70.2.1.

littleD

11th September 2019, 05:37

You did not metion this explicitely. Sorry thats why i ask. Did you set dxva CB AND choose nvidia adapter? Because You should not leave any automatic gpu in lav filters under "Hardware device to use"

Calvi

11th September 2019, 09:36

Yes, tried all combinations of that also. There is only one adapter on my HTPC. In Auto it chooses the RTX2070.
I also set it myself and the result was the same.

I repeated this with my Laptop which has 2 displays and I tried Auto (It chooses the GT330), GT330 #1 and GT330 #2. All the same results again.

Note: your adapter is intel so it may behave completely differently. I'll try my desktop when I get a chance as this has an ATI card.

Klaus1189

11th September 2019, 10:54

You should not leave any automatic gpu in lav filters under "Hardware device to use"

Why not? What‘s the difference? Does this also affect systems with only one dedicated graphics card or only systems that also have an onboard intel hd or amd integrated graphics?

huhn

11th September 2019, 11:19

you should not change from automatic to something else if you don't know what you are doing.
and it would effect system with only one card you enter copyback mode with d3d11.

Calvi

11th September 2019, 13:40

I have also tried my Desktop now with ATI5700 (Yes its old) and of course cannot test CUVID but DXVA2 CB deinterlaces this clip *Almost* correctly.
It fails on the first lotto ball then manages to deal with all the middle ones one and then fails on the end one. Its as if the HW deinterlacer turns on late and off early. (Probably the best the HW deinterlacer in this card can do).

Note: Again if software deinterlacing - (eg Yadif) then all frames are correctly deinterlaced (unsurprisingly as this would be independent of Video Card, and Yadif is probably better than this old cards HW deinterlacing).

Note: The above tests were with EVR.

With MadVR the results are the same except Forcing Film Mode causes all the lotto balls to not deinterlace (as expected). If correctly set to deinterlace then results are identical to EVR so the deinterlacing in the renderer is working fine here. (As best as this card can do anyway).

All of the above is what I would expect for an ATI card (and explains why littleD's sees DXVA2 working for intel) but I am still left with a discrepancy between CUVID and DXVA2 for Nvidia cards. I would love to know whether I am doing something wrong or if there is an actual difference in the HW deinterlacing here?

Has anyone else tried my sample clip with a Nvidia card?

el Filou

11th September 2019, 17:24

I can confirm the issue with my 1050 Ti and I also have a 'solution' for you: in NVIDIA control panel, uncheck 'Use inverse telecine', and DXVA will have the same deinterlacing behaviour as CUVID. :)
The problem isn't really the deinterlacing quality, it's that it just not activates reliably.
The programme being played is 2:2 pulldown so no need to deinterlace it, and apparently NVIDIA doesn't reliably detect the small video insert being overlaid onto it with the lotto balls, while CUVID in video mode obviously does as it treats every frame as video.
Note that I say 'solution' because doing that will disable progressive cadence detection in NVIDIA's deinterlacer, but if you only watch modern 25 fps programming I'd say it's safe. The quality of 2:2 pulldown material will be slightly diminished however (you could see shimmering or other artifacts sometimes).
On my Radeon, the GPU detects the interlaced overlay when the 2nd ball appears (which is acceptable IMO) and correctly deinterlaces the rest after that except the white ball. With cadence detection enabled, NVIDIA detects the interlacing in the middle of the second ball's travel, but then loses it again pretty much immediately, and then does the same again with the 3rd ball.

huhn

11th September 2019, 20:16

using inverse telecine is considered the high quality option in CUVID which doesn't work anymore since win 8 or something like that.

nev may know more this all happend some time ago.

Calvi

12th September 2019, 02:39

elFilou: Thanks, you are right, that's the one setting I hadn't tried yet. Assumed it wouldn't be relevant for 25fps content. Should never assume anything.

If I disable IVTC then DXVA2 CB does handle the rolling balls correctly. There is still a difference to CUVID though. There is shimmering (as you mentioned) most noticeable in the broadcast logo, especially if you pause or resume, or frame by frame. Its there at playback speed though as well.
This does not happen with CUVID with IVTC ON or OFF so I'm still getting a different (and better) result with CUVID.

You are right that I don't have a lot of need for IVTC being in Australia as most of our content is PAL and some derivative of 25fps. Of course there may be cases where I get a video that is converted from NTSC but this in unlikely to be something I am too fussed about picture quality.

Your observations with Radeon are identical to mine. It's a bit late to detect the first ball and the same on the last (would be because of the delay for the last ball to appear).

huhn: Possibly IVTC is broken in CUVID as turning it On or OFF makes no difference to the result (on this source).
I would need to try a source that requires IVTC to verify this.

IF DVXA2 CB needs IVTC off to work properly and CUVID can't do IVTC (not confirmed) but de-interlaces better than DXVA2 CB then I am still staying with CUVID for my sources.

My whole reason for starting this discussion is that I had read that CUVID and DXVA2 CB use identical de-interlacing firmware and that CUVID was no longer recommended so I tried converting over to DXVA2 CB but was not getting the same results.

Perhaps it would be good for Nev to check this out and I am all for the switch to NVDec if it gives the best of both worlds.

I will add though the power saving of DXVA2 over CUVID is overstated if using MadVR to near max the card as this will end up using the same power anyway. If not using MadVR then DXVA2 will be a fair bit more efficient as it throttles the clock much more aggressively.

On the flip side CUVID changes clock frequencies in huge steps and stays stable with fluctuating loads so the need to change the driver from optimal to power-adaptive etc is also not required.

huhn

12th September 2019, 02:55

NVDEC is just a repack CUVID.

nvidia can't IVTC(or noone has an implementation of it) it is just there name it will not recreate the original frame rate.

el Filou

12th September 2019, 19:53

You mean it doesn't decimate?
I feel like we've had this same discussion before, but with 25 PsF content even if it doesn't decimate I definitely see a difference when I check the 'use ivtc' box or not (I remember watching a HD stand-up show with colored metallic ribbons in the background, and the shimmering was horrible with ivtc off), so it's at least detecting the 2:2 cadence. I don't know for the others.

huhn

12th September 2019, 20:50

i didn't say it doesn't do anything. 60i in gives 60p out with that setting or without.

Klaus1189

13th September 2019, 07:59

AMD released new Radeon Driver 19.9.2

Klaus1189

16th September 2019, 10:19

I have found some typos in Radeon driver and already submitted them to AMD, but it isn't fixed yet. Here you can see screenshots of these two typos:
"% 2" has to be "%2", so there is one space, where it shouldn't be and the wildcard doesn't work (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZV6cmqWHkWm6FfhIZK7Y-Lwe6lVrXp6_/view?usp=sharing)
"Zurücksetzten" has to be "Zurücksetzen", so there is one "t" too much (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zdnT9yjAz3uYsRruECmFCrcVOg7ZMWAI/view?usp=sharing)

What else can I do to reach the real people who are programming or translating that?

el Filou

16th September 2019, 11:15

AMD Forums?

janos666

20th September 2019, 21:17

I have some kind of tinted banding with Win10 18362.356 and Geforce 436.30 while having the Calibration Loader disabled in Task Scheduler.
Everything is fine as long as I keep the Desktop in SDR mode but some elusive magenta tinted posterization shows up on certain scenes if I switch to HDR mode which persists until a reboot.
Using madVR with NVAPI HDR doesn't trigger this bug, only Win10 HDR does (and no other software is needed, simply flipping the HDR switch does the trick).
I only notice this magenta thingy on HDR content but I guess it's always there (just even less visible). But strangely enough it's not obvious to spot. W,R,G,B,C,M,Y gradient ramps look mostly fine (nothing is ever completely *perfect* but none of these look obviously broken). Most of the scenes in any random movie look fine until some problematic shades bring this out (but then it's clearly noticeable because grayish shades tend to turn into a distinctly magenta shade...).
I am not sure when this started because I didn't use the OS HDR mode. I recently started using the Netflix app from the Windows Store and that requires the OS HDR mode for HDR content. That's when the problems started (and it was hard to figure out where it comes from).

Klaus1189

21st September 2019, 08:40

Did it came with Windows update? Are/Were previous drivers also affected?

janos666

21st September 2019, 11:32

Did it came with Windows update? Are/Were previous drivers also affected?

Unfortunately, I can't tell. I preferred to use madVR with NVAPI HDR for the sheer convenience of seamless auto-switching (these days the transition happens without any flashing to black or noisy screen, it's really neat).
The sole reason I started flipping that Win10 HDR switch was the Netflix app. (I used to go for the TV's built-in app but that's harcdoded to use DolbyVision for HDR and the TV's latest firmware has some tone response curve issues in DolbyVision mode, so I tried to get around that with the Win10 app which is HDR10-only...).
The only other time I flipped this switch (or more precisely: had it toggled automatically for me by a user software) was when I played an HDR video game (Anthem doesn't support NVAPI HDR, or even DolbyVision for that matter). But I didn't play that game since late July and this is so subtle and elusive that I doubt I could even spot this in a colorful sci-fi game (it could easily look like a poorly compressed texture or strange design choice of colors in that context).

Edit: Well... It's worse than I thought. I decided to try taking some photos (NV / OS comparison) to show how it looks like but the magenta tint was already there with NVAPI! I am sure nothing triggered the Win10 HDR mode since the last reboot. I didn't mess with anything in the Win10 Settings. The only change was the switch from 60 Hz 8bit to 23 Hz 12bit in NVCP. Yesterday I kept rebooting with 23Hz 12bit.

Anyways, here are some bad quality photos (-> see the attachments below). It looks worse in real view. Look at the outlines of the white clouds. I saw something similar in a different movie on white shirts in dark rooms.
Even now, I don't see any anomalies on the SDR desktop (I am using this same TV as a PC monitor to type this) and I don't see anything similar on gray ramp test patterns either (neither in SDR, nor in HDR mode). I think it affects a limited amount of shades close to white (but not quite exactly pure white).

Edit2: Ridiculous.
- I didn't even reboot, just switched back to 60Hz 8bit, then launched MPC-HC again with the same movie. madVR automatically switched to 23Hz and the bit depth automatically flipped to 12bit (this is the expected behavior if that resolution+refresh mode was used with 12bit earlier) and there is no magenta tint on the clouds now.
- Then I switched the Windows Desktop to HDR (while in 60Hz 8bit) and there is still no tinting (madVR yet again switched to 23Hz and 12bit came along with it).
- Finally, I switched the display from 60Hz 8bit to 23Hz 12bit manually from NVCP (with Win10 HDR mode ON), launched MPC-HC (obviously there was no display mode switching by madVR now) and the clouds show tinting again. The same thing happens if I switch to 23Hz from Window's advanced display settings (so it's not NVCP but the NV driver or the OS).

Workaround (a stupid one): set the desktop to 60Hz 8bit, toggle Win10 HDR, start MPC-HC to get madVR switching to 23Hz (and 12bit along with it), start the Netflix app and watch HDR content. (LOL)

Klaus1189

22nd September 2019, 11:45

AMD Forums?

Thanks, I registered and posted it there:
https://community.amd.com/thread/243762

janos666

22nd September 2019, 17:57

I checked my AMD Vega based notebook (2500U with 19.9.2) with the same TV and it's worse than the nVidia Pascal (GTX1070) based desktop PC. The AMD one doesn't show distinct magenta tinting but the banding is much worse (at least with >8bit) and something is wrong with the HDR10 color gamut (wrong metadata?). The colors are much less saturated than they should be (faces look pale, etc).

By the way, the VGA calibration LUT is always set to something "fuzzy" after any changes are made to the Windows display settings (with the CalibrationLoader disabled in Task Scheduler) on both systems.
When it's a custom non-neutral but smooth curve then the graph plot of DisplayCAL starts showing a lot of aliasing (it gets distorted each time I apply a change in Windows display settings but smooths out again if I reload the curve with DisplayCAL).
When it's neutral (no custom ICM profile) the plot looks mostly fine, except it's slightly drifted: 255 maps to 254.1, etc. (This is not so crazy but still clearly distorted.)
But this disturbed LUT is not the only issue. The banding remains after I manually clear the LUT with DisplayCAL. This is just yet another bug (although they might be related).

I initially thought the common denominator will either be <60Hz or >8bit (applied manually from Windows display settings) but it's not so easy. The AMD system doesn't seem to care about these (although the banding is much worse with 12bit than 8bit but that's probably just AMD's always-on dithering).
The color saturation bug (AMD only) seems to require some "trigger" to get stuck (but I didn't pinpoint this yet, it's probably a switch to HDR10 mode with either Win10's or AMD's private API, I am not sure yet).

This is incredible. Several months have passed and 1903 is still garbage. And they didn't even have a real 1909 to work on.
I decided to switch the notebook to the Fast ring and see how that goes. -> No luck, the current 20H1 build behaves the same way on the AMD system (I already rolled the update back).

Edit: This never ceases to amuse... TV nVidia PC lost the magenta tint (which only appeared in certain display modes) when I switched the LAV Video Decoder from DXVA2(native) to D3D11(native). But I didn't find any working option for the AMD system (that one has much more serious banding, that's something else).

Asmodian

23rd September 2019, 23:56

Thanks for the diagnostics on these very odd and evil issues with 1903! :thanks:

chros

24th September 2019, 10:06

Edit: This never ceases to amuse... TV nVidia PC lost the magenta tint (which only appeared in certain display modes) when I switched the LAV Video Decoder from DXVA2(native) to D3D11(native).
That's interesting.
Anyway, just use D3D11(native) in LAV with madvr, it's the fastest (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1878815#post1878815) mode.

el Filou

24th September 2019, 11:08

@janos666 which build of madVR are you using, and are you doing passthrough or processing?
I just tried DXVA2 native because I found it strange that it would give different rendering results (I never use it due to NVIDIA lossy issue), and noticed that at least with beta test build 86 it skips some HDR rendering steps (and gains alot of time in the process!).

With D3D11VA native it's (2160 to 1080 with scale chroma separately and full HDR processing including highlights recovery):

1. DXVA11 Interop
2. Image downscaling
3. HDR Blur Dif; Blur; Frequency Split
4. Chroma
5. rest of HDR processing
6. HDR Final
7. Final Step

With DXVA2 native, apart from step 1 that is obviously replaced by something DXVA2-specific, madVR completely skips steps 3 and 6 (which I think have to do with highlights recovery).

janos666

24th September 2019, 23:37

@el Filou - v0.92.17 (the public build from the neighbor topic), passthrough (metadata included), minimalist setup (no post-process filters or overly fancy resamplers). I am not sure why I had LAV set to DVXV2, I guess I kept flipping it around while fighting the old Win10 1903 banding issue (with the Calibration Loader) and forgot about it.
NVIDIA lossy issue - Hmm? Is DX11 supposed to be of higher quality? I didn't use the DXVA2 resampler (in madVR's settings) if that's what you mean, I am aware that's broken (results in visible color luminance errors).

huhn

25th September 2019, 00:23

DXVA2 native and only native lowers image quality the rest is bit perfect.

Klaus1189

25th September 2019, 16:01

AMD Radeon driver 19.9.2 is available as Recommended (WHQL)
@RX 5700 (XT) card owners: Does this driver run without issues like BSOD for RX 5700 (XT) cards?

huhn

25th September 2019, 16:27

the main BSOD problem was the hardware acceleration one that's "fixed".
now the driver crashes instead and usually recovers.

this is still in the known "issues":
"Discord™ may experience an application hang on Radeon RX 5700 series graphics products when HW acceleration is enabled."

things that some people help are.
don't use PCIe 4.0.
don't use 240hz and at best only 60hz.
use abba if available why this should have anything todo with the GPU i don't even wanna known.
use 1903 or newer see just a couple of post a top.

there are system that in general run that's usually a single 60 hz system.
that's the same driver with WHQL which is not worth much these days.

Klaus1189

26th September 2019, 17:41

@GTPVHD: I want to create the Intel list but I must admit that I don't get the version numbering sheme of Intel and what chip is supported in each of the long version numbers. If you want you can create a short list and point me in the right direction, for example all version xx.xx are only for this chip / generation of intel processors.

GTPVHD

26th September 2019, 19:40

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000005654/graphics-drivers.html

I don't know if this is enough to help you, but you can try reading it.

The version number will increase to 27.20.100.7xxx in the future because the next 1909 release of Win10 will be WDDM 2.7.

huhn

26th September 2019, 21:48

as far as i know a new WDDM version isn't planned.
the next update that is planned for this month is not like the others.

they are slowing it a bit down with the live releases and i hope do more quality control which i think is the right direction as long as new insider builds are provided.

janos666

27th September 2019, 00:53

An updated 1903 is already 1909 with a few (unintresting) features disabled (a ~20kb update can enable those). 20H1 is also available for testing (with WDDM 2.7) but it seems to be the same as far as these graphics quality problems go (although I didn't see any WDDM 2.7 drivers from AMD yet).

huhn

28th September 2019, 18:11

But in driver 19.9.2 the pixelformat is "RGB 4:4:4 Full RGB" ("4:4:4" for those who don't know that RGB is always without chroma subsampling.)
But madVR and VMR 9 windowed is fine. Strange, at least for my understanding.

not related to it. the GPU driver always assumes the windows desktop is full range (and that the video that is rendered there is too). so it only means full range RGB do "nothing" and limited range do a full range to limited range conversation.

this is an example for nvidia which effects EVR: https://abload.de/img/videorangeplkyj.png

Klaus1189

28th September 2019, 18:15

OK, thanks for the info. But I nevertheless don't understand why only EVR and EVR custom presenter is affected.

huhn

28th September 2019, 18:19

they use DXVA processing so the GPU driver is in charge of YCbCr -> RGB conversation and if that it done to limited range and not fixed later it will be washed out.

if you have the issue with nvidia you can change the showed setting and force it to full range.

you can try the mpc renderer settings output and change the range to full range.

janos666

28th September 2019, 18:22

OK, thanks for the info. But I nevertheless don't understand why only EVR and EVR custom presenter is affected.

madVR is also affected if you enable the "trust DXVA color & levels conversion" performance option (and I guess this obviously needs DXVA2 decoding, but I am not sure if it applies to native only or copy-back as well, I also never tested this with D3D11 decoding) but it used to cause issues with HDR10 videos (the last time around I tried it, roughly 1-2 years ago).

Klaus1189

28th September 2019, 18:23

If you are referring to the videorender page in options in both MPC-BE and MPC-HC, it is already set to 0-255, I already tried to set it to 16-235, if it changes anything, but it did nothing.

Klaus1189

28th September 2019, 18:26

madVR is also affected if you enable the "trust DXVA color & levels conversion"

Thanks, I tried it but madVR is still fine. :confused:

janos666

28th September 2019, 18:26

If you are referring to the videorender page in options in both MPC-BE and MPC-HC, it is already set to 0-255, I already tried to set it to 16-235, if it changes anything, but it did nothing.

No, this one (-> see the attached image below).

Thanks, I tried it but madVR is still fine. :confused:
Did you try both NVCP choices while having this madVR option enabled and the decoder set to DXVA2 Native? (Things might have changed over the last year...)

Klaus1189

28th September 2019, 18:30

Sorry post #640 was referring to huhn.
@janos666: I found it in madVR -> rendering -> trade quality for performance -> 2nd last feature. (I can not open your pic, because: "Attachments Pending Approval")
But as in #641 already posted, it is still fine, which I also don't understand.

huhn

28th September 2019, 21:22

with my RX 5700 XT i'm limited to limited range too.

looks like AMD dropped the ball again.
the rendering output range is ignored.

janos666

28th September 2019, 23:27

So, it turns out the heavy banding on the AMD Vega based notebook was also caused by the DXVA2 Native setting in LAV (I still can't remember why I set both to DXVA2, though I didn't know it was known to be fundamentally broken quality wise). The video image is clean with D3D11.
However, the color space metadata bug is unrelated and random. I found the signal info banner on the TV OSD (click anywhere once and then click on the HDMI icon on the top-left corner for LG) and "rec2020" disappears from the list when I see unsaturated colors. It seems to happen with both the AMD private API (madVR) and the Win10 HDR desktop modes (same movie file, the madVR OSD shows clearly recognized Rec2020 but even the converted Windows desktop GUI colors look off, so...). The latter is 50/50 (sometimes it's fine, other times it's off) but I don't remember seeing correct colors with the former (could be a coincidence or the private API is still useless, it was also obviously very dark with older drivers all the time).

Klaus1189

29th September 2019, 09:08

with my RX 5700 XT i'm limited to limited range too.

looks like AMD dropped the ball again.
the rendering output range is ignored.

I going to make a thread at AMD forum, but I am not sure how to make it 100% clear for the devs what exact range in the driver is affected. Can you help me finding the right descripion for this issue?

What I got now is that the "video output range setting" outputs 16-235 regardless what is selected 0-255 or 16-235. Note: It is not the output setting of the pixelformat.

huhn

29th September 2019, 09:45

words are not my strong point.

the pixel format should be ignored it should always been outputted as full range from the video renderer even if the pixel format is set to limited or it will not match.

the problem doesn't trigger with the windows movie app so that hints that it is a directshow issue because it looks like it works with media foundation.

thanks to mpcVR(i use an old version) we get another hint that it is coupled with DXVA2 processing because it works fine with D3D11 processing.

the next problem is that this is a video issue and these companies usually don't really care about this as long as there is an image. the 5700 series is a just a driver nightmare i would say they have more important things to do.

so i would use something like:
videos are outputted in limited range in a directshow video player when DXVA2 processing is used.

for example play a video using MPC-HC using the default enhanced video renderer (custom presenter) the output range will be limited.

driver version card.
and add an dxdiag they love these like candy.
finding the driver where they broke this wouldn't be bad too.

Klaus1189

29th September 2019, 09:45

I just tested MPC Video Renderer with MPC-BE and it is also affected in standard settings:
DirectX 9
Graphics adapter: AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT (1002:731F)
VideoProcessor : DXVA2 ProgressiveDevice
DeinterlaceTechnology: none
Display Mode : 3840 x 2160, 59 Hz

But when checking Use Direct3D it looks fine to me:
DirectX 11
Graphics adapter: AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT (1002:731F)
VideoProcessor : D3D11

Klaus1189

29th September 2019, 09:47

thanks to mpcVR(i use an old version) we get another hint that it is coupled with DXVA2 processing because it works fine with D3D11 processing.

Yes ;)

huhn

30th September 2019, 09:56

just to add more to the fire they broke yet again deinterlancing on my system too.

so we currently have wrong ranges in DXVA2 "processing" NN as an "de"interlacer truncated 10 bit to 8 bit DXVA2 native decoding.

Klaus1189

30th September 2019, 16:00

"de"interlacer truncated 10 bit to 8 bit DXVA2 native decoding.

Sorry, but I don't get that, can you please explain it so I can decribe it deeply on the AMD forum?

I just browsed on YouTube and came across the following videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rxFxdvO3fQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY4s35uULg4

Could this method help Nvidia users to get more accurate 23 Hz timings out of the box?
And perhaps can then the madVR image processing be done in the Nvidia card and Framepacked 3D be sent over an AMD card or perhaps an Intel iGPU which lots of users also have already in their HTPC.
Just an idea, but perhaps it is helpful ...

huhn

30th September 2019, 18:47

i already talked and tested this.

yes it can be done when windows allows you to and it is dodge as hell.

about the decoding issue with native will try to make screens and such but this is a very old issue pretty much ignored because it is DXVA2 native which has issues with madVR in general.

Klaus1189

30th September 2019, 19:54

What do you mean with dodge?

huhn

30th September 2019, 19:57

dodgy.

it hard to pull of and may not work at all.

Klaus1189

30th September 2019, 20:36

So hard to setup and unreliable? I am sure you are from Germany, so a german description will help me understand the drawbacks better.

And of course two different drivers with all its broken features at the same time...

Looking forward for your screenshots when you have time. Do not rush.

huhn

30th September 2019, 21:33

mein deutsch ist auch mist. das ganze ist monate her ich muss denn post finden.

the 10 bit DXVA native bug was easy to test.
the here used test has rounded or truncated 8 bit at the bottom half the top is 10 bit and looks like it is dithered too:
software decoding: https://abload.de/img/amddxvabug2bqkm5.png
DXVA2 native: https://abload.de/img/amddxvanativebug4gkwu.png

source file: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibration/2269338-10-bit-gradient-test-patterns.html

Klaus1189

1st October 2019, 09:44

AMD released new Radeon Driver 19.9.3

grendelrt

3rd October 2019, 14:56

Does anyone know if the bug where forcing the BT2020 flag for Nvidia not clearing correctly for 709 content was ever fixed? I never knew if it was on the Nvidia side or the MadVR side. I know Manni confirmed the issue back when I posted it in May. Here is my original post from back then:

I have a weird issue. I used the report 2020 to display option to do some testing, and now even when I am on the desktop and in SDR on 709 material, my display is still getting reported BT2020. If I switch sources to my Oppo player it clears, but no matter what I do now on my computer it is stuck sending the BT2020 flag. Is there any way to clear this?

Edit: A full DDU uninstall of the drivers seemed to have fixed it. Isnt that option supposed to work as a toggle though? If I uncheck it, shouldnt it turn that flag off that nvidia is sending?

grendelrt

4th October 2019, 13:38

webbo

4th October 2019, 20:38

Hello

436.48 nVidia Driver - is it "okay" for HDR Passthrough for 4K HDR movies?
I simply can't use the old 430.39 - my games keep closing, hardly playable
Any reply / thoughts are welcome

Thank you very much

Asmodian

4th October 2019, 23:53

I have been successful with HDR passthrough on my LG C9 with 436.48.

Klaus1189

5th October 2019, 08:35

Is exclusive mode required or is windowed mode sufficient for HDR passthrough with Nvidia 436.48?

Asmodian

5th October 2019, 09:09

Windowed mode is fine, 8 bit output from madVR works too.

webbo

6th October 2019, 13:47

I have been successful with HDR passthrough on my LG C9 with 436.48.

Yes, but is the result displayed correctly?
If you check the First post of this thread, there was a number of drivers causing bogus metadata to be passed through

:rolleyes:

chros

7th October 2019, 12:15

I have been successful with HDR passthrough on my LG C9 with 436.48.

Do you happen to have any HDFury (or similar) device to check HDR metadata that the GPU outputs? (I'm asking because of this (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2954506-improving-madvr-hdr-sdr-mapping-projector-215.html#post58649764).)

Or is anybody here who has one apart from @Manni?

Klaus1189

8th October 2019, 10:12

AMD released new Radeon Driver 19.10.1 with support for new Radeon RX 5500 models

huhn

11th October 2019, 16:52

they are not going to release a pretty much untested wddm version this time and this update is not like the other major updates because it's not changing much mostly bug fixes/performances and some small features are added.

chros

17th October 2019, 16:23

I have been successful with HDR passthrough on my LG C9 with 436.48.

Windowed mode is fine, 8 bit output from madVR works too.

Yes, but is the result displayed correctly?
If you check the First post of this thread, there was a number of drivers causing bogus metadata to be passed through :rolleyes:

@Manni just confirmed that v436.48 is OK (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2954506-improving-madvr-hdr-sdr-mapping-projector-226.html#post58693494) and at the same time he stated that older drivers (that reported previously as OK) are broken. :)

@Manni, can I ask what exactly "broken" means? Which metadata values are affected?

Also, what does OK mean? Are *all* the metadata values correct? (maxCLL, maxFall, mastering values, mastering color coordinates, white point?)

Best to test the latter with a content that has different maxCLL than that mastering peak, e.g. with Guardians of the Galaxy (2014):
- "master luminance" 0.005/4000 ; maCLL/FALL 577/512
- sample (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1882771#post1882771), file name: "09-2160p_23fps_hdr0577-gotg.mkv"

I posted all this on doom9 before ...
10000 nit file
code values @ various nits from the white point setting:

760 nits: 669
1000 nits: 696
4000 nits: 713
passthrough: 713

Driver is nVidia's lastest, 436.48.

So, what I meant was: can you check a content like Guardians of the Galaxy (2014) sample (to have different values for maxCLL and mastering peak) and see that:
- using passthrough
- which code value is shown?

Question about 436.48:
- does it allow us to use custom timings (e.g. with CRU)?
- what happens to 12 bit switch in nVidia panel after playing 60fps content?
- did I miss anything important to ask? :)

Thanks!

iSeries

17th October 2019, 18:47

chros

17th October 2019, 19:04

I don't think he said drivers older than 436.48 are broken. He said passthrough is fine with recent drivers.

:) : "HDR passthrough is broken with old drivers (including 398.11)"

I've updated my above post (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1887757#post1887757) with a sample.

Manni

17th October 2019, 19:05

@Manni just confirmed that v436.48 is OK (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2954506-improving-madvr-hdr-sdr-mapping-projector-226.html#post58693494) and at the same time he stated that older drivers (that reported previously as OK) are broken. :)

@Manni, can I ask what exactly "broken" means? Which metadata values are affected?

Also, what does OK mean? Are *all* the metadata values correct? (maxCLL, maxFall, mastering values, mastering color coordinates, white point?)

Broken usually means that HDR passthrough sends bogus metadata (usually the same for all titles). It can also mean that madVR doesn't manage to switch to HDR using the API, and that it stays in SDR. This is what happened to me with 398.11, and why I updated the driver to the latest. That solved the issue. I don't need HDR passthrough except for testing, and I need it more (and more often) than 3D, as I can use another source for that. No idea what broke it. Probably an OS update. In fact I wasn't able to install 385.28 or 398.11 without getting an error from the driver.

OK/correct means that *all* the metadata present on the disk is passed through, whether it's correct/complete, incomplete or invalid.

I don't think he said drivers older than 436.48 are broken. He said passthrough is fine with recent drivers.

Correct. :)

SamuriHL

18th October 2019, 00:45

So, what I meant was: can you check a content like Guardians of the Galaxy (2014) sample (to have different values for maxCLL and mastering peak) and see that:
- using passthrough
- which code value is shown?

696 with passthrough, 669 with 760 nit tone mapping. Not sure what you're expecting from this?

EDIT: Selected GotG2 when testing by mistake. Retesting now with GotG. One moment.

713 for passthrough, 669 with 760 nit tone mapping for GotG.

chros

18th October 2019, 12:32

... 398.11 ... No idea what broke it. Probably an OS update. In fact I wasn't able to install 385.28 or 398.11 without getting an error from the driver.
Very strange ... Thanks for the explanation!

Now I know (thanks to @SamuriHL's test) that 385.28 (on 1607) is fine as well, as you always told us so.

Can you do 1 more last test please, if you'll have time for it?
- use madvr pixel shader in "ouput HDR format" with the above posted GotG sample ("master luminance" 0.005/4000 ; maCLL/FALL 577/512)
- set 760 nits at real display peak
- What happens to the metadata values of: maxCLL, maxFall, mastering peak ?

Madshi said, they should be:
- mastering peak: 760
- maxCLL: 760 / 3 = 253
- maxFALL: ???

Thank You!

Not sure what you're expecting from this?
:) That's what I thought, but let's go over to the LG Oled thread.
Thanks for testing!

SamuriHL

18th October 2019, 14:57

Madshi said, they should be:
- mastering peak: 760
- maxCLL: 760 / 3 = 253
- maxFALL: ???

I don't see where they're changed in the OSD. I simply see:

master luminance: 0.005/4000
MaxCLL/FALL 577/512

So I doin't know if that's what you're looking for.

littleD

19th October 2019, 06:49

Added Support for YUV420 on Display Port for10thGen Intel Core processors with Iris Plus graphicsThey have ment probably Y′CBCR 4:2:0

chros

21st October 2019, 11:56

I don't see where they're changed in the OSD. I simply see:

master luminance: 0.005/4000
MaxCLL/FALL 577/512
These are the input metadata values on the OSD, but I'm curious the GPU output values when "ouput HDR format" is used, that's why we need @Manni's help.

SamuriHL

21st October 2019, 22:40

Yea I have no way of testing that at all.

Manni

22nd October 2019, 00:22

These are the input metadata values on the OSD, but I'm curious the GPU output values when "ouput HDR format" is used, that's why we need @Manni's help.

Alright then. But no more! :)

https://imgur.com/nnidZMv

You get the HD Fury Maestro input at the bottom and the JVC input at the top right (they agree).

So you don't need me or an HD Fury, just a recent JVC (or Oppo 203) owner with madVR :)

SamuriHL

22nd October 2019, 01:15

huhn

22nd October 2019, 03:15

every end device could provide detail information about the stream the list is nearly for sure far longer then these to two.
and this isn't over HLG will take of soon.

Manni

22nd October 2019, 10:20

Are you blatantly trying to suggest that madvr is doing the right thing?! :P :D How dare you insinuate madvr is top notch software!! LOL I had very little doubt that'd be the case. It also means our drivers are finally working correctly, as well. Can't say the same for the LG but hey can't win em all. :D

There might be bug in madVR with [correction: pixel shader outputting HDR, not HDR passthrough] though: it shouldn’t raise maxCLL when it’s lower than peak brightness the way it does, because I don’t see any reason why it should go up. It should keep it at 577 instead of replacing it with the target. Only maxFALL should change in that case. It’s only if the target is lower than maxCLL that maxCLL should be lowered to the target.

Maybe madshi is doing this because he doesn’t trust the metadata, even when present and apparently valid, but it could give worst results with static tonemapping if the metadata is valid, because the display is expecting pixels above 577 when there are none. In this case, the difference is minimal, but with Blade Runner 2019 which has barely any pixel above 100nits (forgot what the metadata says, maybe around 200nits), it would be more significant.

SamuriHL

22nd October 2019, 11:01

Don't use static tone mapping then? [emoji16] No that could be problematic if that's the case. Hopefully madshi can find a way to fix it if it's truly a bug.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Manni

22nd October 2019, 11:26

Don't use static tone mapping then? [emoji16] No that could be problematic if that's the case. Hopefully madshi can find a way to fix it if it's truly a bug.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

I never use static tonemapping or HDR passthrough except to run brief tests, but many displays do. :)

I only did this because of Chros' request.

It's not difficult to fix if it's a bug, madshi just needs to check and only replace maxCLL with target if maxCLL > real peak (760 in this example), and let it alone if maxCLL < real peak.

chros

22nd October 2019, 12:31

Alright then. But no more! :)
Thank You! :)

So you don't need me or an HD Fury, just a recent JVC (or Oppo 203) owner with madVR :)
Hmmm, good to know.

Is anybody here with the mentioned devices? (apart from Manni of course :) )

Can't say the same for the LG but hey can't win em all. :D
:D Not at all, I'll comment the LG thread as well ...

There might be bug in madVR with HDR passthrough though
Probably you meant "output in HDR format" (and not passthrough).
Good point! I missed this on your image :)

it could give worst results with static tonemapping if the metadata is valid, because the display is expecting pixels above 577 when there are none. In this case, the difference is minimal, but with Blade Runner 2019 which has barely any pixel above 100nits (forgot what the metadata says, maybe around 200nits), it would be more significant.
Blade runner is a good example, I think maxCLL was around 120 nits! :D

Manni

22nd October 2019, 12:54

Probably you meant "output in HDR format" (and not passthrough).
Good point! I missed this on your image :)

Yes I did, sorry for the confusion and thanks for the correction, I've edited my post. Of course that's what I used to take the screenshot :)

BTW I checked and BR2049’s maxCLL is 181. :)

SamuriHL

22nd October 2019, 14:06

I never use static tonemapping or HDR passthrough except to run brief tests, but many displays do. :)

I only did this because of Chros' request.

It's not difficult to fix if it's a bug, madshi just needs to check and only replace maxCLL with target if maxCLL > real peak (760 in this example), and let it alone if maxCLL < real peak.

Yea that seems reasonable. :)

kostik

22nd October 2019, 14:45

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-game-ready-driver/

Nvidia GeForce 440.77 WHQL driver, new driver branch R440, will need a lot of testing.

It also adds support for windowed G-SYNC for OpenGL and Vulkan-based applications

Variable Refresh support for LG C9 TV's.(Needs confirmation / Beta firmware + Turing only)

SamuriHL

22nd October 2019, 15:03

Man I *JUST* looked about 45 minutes ago for new drivers and didn't see one out there. LOL Cause Windows had to do a full build install of 19h2 and I always reinstall my driver after that. Ok, I guess I'll go grab that and test it tonight.

ryrynz

22nd October 2019, 21:14

The variable refresh can work with other untested displays as well.

huhn

22nd October 2019, 21:51

they added free sync support over HDMI they are just trying to rename it to g-sync compatible with great success.

nevcairiel

22nd October 2019, 22:16

they added free sync support over HDMI they are just trying to rename it to g-sync compatible with great success.

They added HDMI VRR support. FreeSync is AMDs branding, "GSYNC Compatible" is NVIDIAs.

FreeSync never was the name of any specific technology, its just AMDs branding for either DisplayPort Adaptive Sync, or HDMI Variable Refresh Rate.

huhn

22nd October 2019, 22:47

screen are getting rebranded right now that.

SamuriHL

22nd October 2019, 22:49

I still don't see the driver on nVidia's download page. I'm missing something...

nevcairiel

22nd October 2019, 23:04

Its definitely there:
https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/152654/en-us

SamuriHL

22nd October 2019, 23:50

Yea I can get to it from your link but search is still bringing me to the october 1 driver. That's WEIRD! Downloading it now.

SamuriHL

23rd October 2019, 00:37

I'm already not a fan of this stupid driver. Really, nVidia? Previous drivers would often lose audio connection to my receiver when "idle". Which, ok, whatever. This new driver drops the connection back to stereo but it's constantly switching audio modes with the receiver. This probably doesn't happen for most people as I realize my equipment combination is probably unique, but, it was irritating before, now it's just downright obnoxious. My receiver CLICKS when it changes modes so having to hear it click constantly is stupid.

Manni

23rd October 2019, 01:01

Does the nVidia control panel take ages to load and is changing any setting super slow? Here it's unbearable. I didn't check the sound but I'm probably going to revert to the previous driver, where the control panel also takes ages to load but where at least changes are done at normal speed.

I'm not sure if it's the 1903 or the recent nvidia drivers, but I never had this issue (slow to load + slow to change settings) in the CP before.

SamuriHL

23rd October 2019, 01:31

I didn't have that issue. I'm running the potential 19h2 build so who knows what issue I'm having is. I'm likely to also revert if I can't figure out a solution to the audio issue.

el Filou

23rd October 2019, 02:09

I'm already not a fan of this stupid driver. Really, nVidia? Previous drivers would often lose audio connection to my receiver when "idle". Which, ok, whatever. This new driver drops the connection back to stereo but it's constantly switching audio modes with the receiver.Are you sure it's not some feature of 19H2? I'm using the same audio driver version that comes with r440 (1.3.38.21) but on 1809 and I don't have this.

FYI, you can 'fix' the audio stream drop when idle: search for 'PerformanceIdleTime' in the Registry & change it to 0 (you should find it in a PowerSettings subkey of the audio driver).

SamuriHL

23rd October 2019, 04:12

Are you sure it's not some feature of 19H2? I'm using the same audio driver version that comes with r440 (1.3.38.21) but on 1809 and I don't have this.

FYI, you can 'fix' the audio stream drop when idle: search for 'PerformanceIdleTime' in the Registry & change it to 0 (you should find it in a PowerSettings subkey of the audio driver).

I was running the previous driver on the same windows build earlier with no issues. So, yea, it seems this driver with my equipment changed the status quo. I'll look into the setting.

huhn

23rd October 2019, 05:57

the strange thing is the hd audio driver is the same as the last nvidia driver version.

SamuriHL

23rd October 2019, 12:33

I'll do a clean install of the driver later. Maybe something got corrupt. Always possible.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Klaus1189

25th October 2019, 11:54

AMD released new Radeon Driver 19.10.2

huhn

25th October 2019, 17:55

Some Radeon RX Vega and Radeon RX 5700 series graphics products may intermittently experience a thread stuck crash or TDR when there is a high GPU load active.
finally.
ohh wait:
Stutter may be experienced when Radeon FreeSync is enabled on 240hz refresh displays with Radeon RX 5700 series graphics products.
for nearly 4 month now.

cremor

29th October 2019, 15:39

Since 441.08 now officially supports HDMI 2.1 VRR ("G-Sync compatible" for LG OLED TVs) I'd like to use this driver. Can someone please check if this driver version works correctly with HDR video?
Also: I've read somewhere that there was a problem with raised HDR black level in 440.97, I hope they fixed that.

nevcairiel

29th October 2019, 15:41

If you can't tell yourself if HDR is working correctly, does it ultimately matter? Does an issue affect you if you don't even notice?

cremor

29th October 2019, 16:41

I'm currently not using my PC as an HTPC, so I'm not sure if I would notice. But I'd like to use it as one in the future and therefore would like to have a "known good" driver version for both HTPC and gaming.

SamuriHL

29th October 2019, 18:57

Can I get another RTX owner to confirm something for me? I don't know when this changed so let me be clear on this. I'm using the 19H2 build of windows 10 and the driver just posted today. So that makes life difficult to determine when this changed. However, can someone confirm that they can now use D3D11 for presentation with 8 frame presented in advanced WITHOUT getting micro-stuttering issues that we previously saw? I am saying that i am able to play back with those settings and I'm not getting micro-stuttering anymore so I just want someone else to confirm this.

onekmilesbehind

30th October 2019, 02:14

@SamuriHL I've got a 2070 XC Ultra on driver 436.48 running on Windows 1809. I had it set to present 6 frames previously (and using D3D11 for presentation) with no micro-stutter issues, but bumped it up to 8 to test just now on a large 4k source file. No issues either. For me at least, the combo of forcing Vertical sync to "On" and power to "Prefer maximum performance" has done the trick.

SamuriHL

30th October 2019, 06:02

I wonder if nvidia fixed it at some point. In any case this is great news as it makes d3d11 useable again.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

webbo

2nd November 2019, 12:03

If you can't tell yourself if HDR is working correctly, does it ultimately matter? Does an issue affect you if you don't even notice?

Well, that's the point of the OP, right? To "agree" whether HDR is passthrough correctly or not :)
I keep asking about this here, but to no avail unfortunately :(

For example, someone new at the 4K HDR topic wouldn't be able to notice

el Filou

2nd November 2019, 15:00

People over at AVS Forum on the madVR tone mapping development thread have verified that with recent drivers (431.x and later at least), HDR passthrough is again working correctly on NVIDIA with correct metadata.
Sorry I can't find the exact post again, there's too many on that thread.

Edit: there it is: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2954506-improving-madvr-hdr-sdr-mapping-projector-225.html#post58689662
It has also been confirmed on this very thread: https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1872629&postcount=179

whitestar999

2nd November 2019, 15:02

The list at the first page mentions drivers needed for RTX series but what about 16xx series & 16xx super cards.

el Filou

2nd November 2019, 15:17

16 series use the same architecture as 20 series, just with raytracing disabled. The display output features are the same.

aufkrawall

2nd November 2019, 16:14

16 series use the same architecture as 20 series, just with raytracing disabled.
Tensorcores are missing too, but they seem to be useless for realtime calculations anway.

whitestar999

2nd November 2019, 18:11

Is it possible to run 16xx series card on win 8.1 with a driver having correct hdr pass-through to use with madvr or does it necessarily needs win 10?

Klaus1189

2nd November 2019, 18:46

The list at the first page mentions drivers needed for RTX series but what about 16xx series & 16xx super cards.

Added to first post ;)

@all:
Nvidia seems to have fixed the micro stutter issue in newer driver versions, does anybody know, which version excactly?
I want add this info to the first page.

huhn

2nd November 2019, 19:16

how do you add an information about this if it is not a universal issue?

Klaus1189

2nd November 2019, 19:26

I thought of adding the info, because of post #701, #702 and #703. I thought I should let users know in the summary that Nvidia seems to have fix it. But if other Nvidia users still have issues with micro stutters, of course I can not add it.

So people with an Nvidia RTX card please let me know if you have still micro stutter issues with 436.48 and above.

whitestar999

2nd November 2019, 20:20

Added to first post ;)

@all:
Nvidia seems to have fixed the micro stutter issue in newer driver versions, does anybody know, which version excactly?
I want add this info to the first page.
Thanks :) One more query,size of drivers with same version number is different for win 10 & win 7/8 so does this mean the list applies to all or specifically only to win 10.

SamuriHL

2nd November 2019, 22:07

Added to first post ;)

@all:
Nvidia seems to have fixed the micro stutter issue in newer driver versions, does anybody know, which version excactly?
I want add this info to the first page.

That was my question, as well, and I don't think we got a definitive answer. I'm just happy it's fixed. For sure the latest driver is working very well.

Calvi

3rd November 2019, 12:18

Stutter gone for me with 441.08 (cannot say exactly which version before fixed it though)

cremor

3rd November 2019, 13:23

I've read some more and it seems like both 440.97 and 441.08 have elevated black levels in HDR. This should be noted in the first post.

Sources:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/3057634-2019-c9a-e9-owner-s-thread-no-price-talk-268.html#post58721970
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/3057634-2019-c9a-e9-owner-s-thread-no-price-talk-270.html#post58724510
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/3057634-2019-c9a-e9-owner-s-thread-no-price-talk-281.html#post58747886
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/3057634-2019-c9a-e9-owner-s-thread-no-price-talk-283.html#post58750740

Klaus1189

3rd November 2019, 16:13

@cremor:
Thanks for the info, I added it to the first post

VBB

3rd November 2019, 20:53

I've been using the latest drivers with RGB full 8-bit, non-PC mode, and black levels are spot on in both SDR and HDR.

Manni

3rd November 2019, 22:56

I've been using the latest drivers with RGB full 8-bit, non-PC mode, and black levels are spot on in both SDR and HDR.

That's one of the main reasons for using 8bits. Levels are often hosed in 12bits, and often different between SDR and HDR.

nevcairiel

3rd November 2019, 23:22

Manni

3rd November 2019, 23:30

Sounds to me like black levels work as expected, but people get messed up Full vs Limited for some reasons, which in my ezpet is primarily an issue only on TVs which dont advertise full range support on their edid

Not in 12bits. There is often a mismatch between the HDR and SDR levels, and you have to actually change the range in madVR to get the proper levels in most of the recent drivers and set it to the WRONG setting in madVR to get the correct levels. I use limited so I don't rely on full range support to get the correct levels. Mostly it s case of keeping GPU on full and setting madVR to 0-255 when the display is actually expecting 16-235. Not ideal, but if you don't do that the levels are simply wrong, at least here in 12bits with any driver more recent than 398.11 (possibly even 385.28).

I haven't tested this recently as I've been using 8bits for a while, but it's a known issue with 12bits. nVidia just has crap drivers and is unable to fix something without breaking (or retiring in the case of 3D) something else.

They are very lucky that others are not significantly better. :rolleyes:

Klaus1189

3rd November 2019, 23:35

nVidia just has crap drivers and is unable to fix something without breaking (or retiring in the case of 3D) something else.

They are very lucky that others are not significantly better. :rolleyes:

Couldn‘t have said it better :devil:

huhn

4th November 2019, 02:48

Sounds to me like black levels work as expected, but people get messed up Full vs Limited for some reasons, which in my experience is primarily an issue only on TVs which dont advertise full range support on their edid

nvidia ignores this.

nvidia choices limited or full range for HDMI device on only one thing the head line where the resolution is listed in there driver.
if it is listed under SD, HD, UHD it will by default use limited range even on gaming screens if the resolution is selected under "PC" it will use full range by default.

nevcairiel

4th November 2019, 08:38

nvidia ignores this.

nvidia choices limited or full range for HDMI device on only one thing the head line where the resolution is listed in there driver.
if it is listed under SD, HD, UHD it will by default use limited range even on gaming screens if the resolution is selected under "PC" it will use full range by default.

Except thats not true. On my Sony TV, which reports proper Full range support, it'll always pick Full range, even on typical TV resolutions like 1080p, which is listed in the section you speak of.

huhn

4th November 2019, 09:11

beware it will remember it to trigger it again you have to ddu.

i have tested it on about 10 screens a sony TV was that list too well 2 but very very similar from the same year.

on default your sony TV needs limited range like every other screen too anyway.

nevcairiel

4th November 2019, 10:37

on default your sony TV needs limited range like every other screen too anyway.

I think only I know how my screen actually behaves. :p
Because its actually smart and fully adapts to the input signal, I've never had to change the range config in the screen, and if I change in the control panel from full to limited the visual look doesn't change because it auto-adapts. HDMI has all the image properties in metadata, unfortunately the majority of TVs quite simply ignore it and expect some default mode.

huhn

4th November 2019, 10:47

not saying your screen doesn't but the only ways for a screen to change a setting in the nvidia control panel is by pretending to be a new different screen or by HDMI content type which is again not properly supported. there is a very good reason not to do that.

auto level support is not that rare but not the point what nvidia choices to send.

kostik

4th November 2019, 16:27

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/red-dead-redemption-2-pc-game-ready-driver/

Nvidia Geforce 441.12 WHQL driver.

This latest GeForce Game Ready driver ( 441.12) enables G-SYNC Compatible support on LG’s 2019 B9, C9 and E9 4K OLED TVs.

Klaus1189

4th November 2019, 17:30

I heard G-Sync shouldn't be used with madVR. It is designed for gaming, but brings trouble with madVR or general video playing, isn't it?

Should I leave the elevated level info on the two drivers or should I remove it, or maybe add only when using 12 bit if I understood it correctly.

cremor

4th November 2019, 18:43

Sounds to me like black levels work as expected, but people get messed up Full vs Limited for some reasons, which in my experience is primarily an issue only on TVs which dont advertise full range support on their edid

If that's the case, why would those same people report that going back to older driver versions fixes the elevated blacks?

I heard G-Sync shouldn't be used with madVR. It is designed for gaming, but brings trouble with madVR or general video playing, isn't it?
Yes, G-Sync messes with madVR and should be disabled. But you don't have to disable it completely. The driver actually automatically disables it for some known executables of media players like MPC-HC. For players that are not handled by the driver by default you can use nvidiaProfileInspector.

Should I leave the elevated level info on the two drivers or should I remove it, or maybe add only when using 12 bit if I understood it correctly.

According to this post (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/3057634-2019-c9a-e9-owner-s-thread-no-price-talk-268.html#post58721970) 8 bit is affected too. You can more clearly see it in the older version of the post, which is still available in the quote here (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/3057634-2019-c9a-e9-owner-s-thread-no-price-talk-270.html#post58724510).

edit:
Found a new post: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/3057634-2019-c9a-e9-owner-s-thread-no-price-talk-295.html#post58773938
So Nvidia officially confirmed the black level bug and 441.12 is still affected, but it seems like it only affects LG OLEDs.

Klaus1189

4th November 2019, 22:05

AMD released new Radeon Driver 19.11.1

Nastenka

7th November 2019, 15:26

Yes, G-Sync messes with madVR and should be disabled. But you don't have to disable it completely. The driver actually automatically disables it for some known executables of media players like MPC-HC. For players that are not handled by the driver by default you can use nvidiaProfileInspector.

Is the automatic disabling a new thing? I noticed that with an older Studio driver I had to set MPC-HC to Fixed refresh rate manually, while on this current driver set the option is greyed out and says "not supported for this application".

cremor

7th November 2019, 17:48

I don't know when this was added to the driver. I've bought my first G-Sync monitor in December 2018 and back then it was already there. Since "studio" drivers are way newer, they should have already supported that.

Decalicatan_Decalicatan

9th November 2019, 14:48

Manni

9th November 2019, 15:20

Hi!

Do you know if there an issue with the recent nvidia drivers when playing a HDR video with "Compromise on HDR tome & gamut mapping accuracy" unchecked?

I was previously using Nvidia Driver 430.53 for my GTX 1070 and everything was fine when I played a HDR file (mpc-be with madvr "Compromise on HDR tome & gamut mapping accuracy" unchecked | SDR monitor)

I have updated the drivers to 436.48, and now when I play a HDR file the image is nearly completely dark. If I check "Compromise on HDR tome & gamut mapping accuracy" the image is watchable again.
But of course I'd prefer not compromise on HDR tome & gamut mapping accuracy.

madvr version is the latest one available on avsforum.

Thanks in advance.

This is because you have not disabled measurements files.

I use the latest nVidia driver and there is no issue with that option.

Just disable all measurements files in the configuration section at the end of MadVR settings. They are not supported with the latest test builds.

If you don't use measurements files, then it might be something else, but it's not the driver.

Grimsdyke

9th November 2019, 16:48

If Manni's advise does not solve this you should also check if 'don't measure HDR frame peak luminance' is also unchecked.

Decalicatan_Decalicatan

9th November 2019, 17:53

This is because you have not disabled measurements files.

Just disable all measurements files in the configuration section at the end of MadVR settings. They are not supported with the latest test builds.
.

Thank you! You were absolutely right.

I didn't get the news about the measurements files. Change occurs so fast with MadVR beta in the "other forum" so it is very easy to miss relevant info.

Regards

TechnoPeasant

10th November 2019, 20:09

I wonder if the recent issues with the Nvidia drivers are what I'm experiencing too. I'm unable to watch any HDR content using RGB at all. No matter what I do, the black levels wash out. Instead, I have to switch to ycbr 4:4:4, 12-bit, limited to maintain correct black levels, which I'm sure is less than ideal.

I think this all happened after a Windows update, but I'm not entirely sure. Unfortunately, on my Vizio PQ65, I'm only able to change color space manually, and not video levels.

Sucks when you have everything setup just right, and some crap Windows update ruins things.

If any of you have any suggestions, as to how I can better work around this issue, please let me know. I saw someone mentioned having to choose "PC" resolutions instead of the UHD stuff, but that category of resolutions doesn't show up in NVCP.

Warner306

11th November 2019, 01:37

"Color Space" in the Vizio picture menu should be set to "RGB." That is all I know. I don't know if that setting currently exists on the newest Vizio models, though.

TechnoPeasant

11th November 2019, 01:46

Yeah, color space is there, and I can set it to RGB, but unfortunately the result is still washed out.

Warner306

11th November 2019, 11:52

This is with the Nvidia control panel set to output RGB 0-255?

Maybe the display now has some type of levels adjustment?

TechnoPeasant

11th November 2019, 14:49

Yeah, RGB 0-255. That's what I'm thinking, that the TV is trying to be too helpful. That said, the Nvidia driver issues sound very similar.

TechnoPeasant

12th November 2019, 05:04

Can confirm, the latest Vizio 4.0 firmware did nothing. I suspect the latest Windows 10 update has something to do with this, and the nvidia driver hasn't accounted for it. Bummer.

huhn

15th November 2019, 10:36

AMD got a new driver too: https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/release-notes/rn-rad-win-19-11-2
the changes are minimal at best. i will test DXVA2 stuff later.

edit: DXVA2 levels are broken
deint is still broken
i don't test dxva2 native decode anymore until they fix the very obvious stuff.

NikosD

15th November 2019, 18:50

I don't test dxva2 native decode anymore until they fix the very obvious stuff. As long as AMD says that "Movies & TV" works fine with HW acceleration, they will probably don't bother much to comply with other players.
The other players should comply to AMD, according to AMD.

huhn

15th November 2019, 20:08

it effects windows media player.

hotripper

16th November 2019, 05:01

Added to first post ;)

@all:
If that does not eliminate the stutter for you, set how many video frames shall be presented in advance to 1 (madVR settings->rendering->windowed mode and/or exclusive mode).

I found that fix.
Not that I want a cookie but yeah :D

littleD

16th November 2019, 07:21

it effects windows media player.What is your OS? On my win 10 machine WMP is half working garbage and i got used to this.

huhn

16th November 2019, 09:08

w10 1909.
i personally don't vare about WMP but that doesn't mean AMD shouldn't specifically if they have broken it and there QA is none existent.

hogtop

17th November 2019, 14:01

i have 441.20 nvidia 1050ti

and the Samsung Q9FN HDR TV screen
i must point out that HDR looks bad with MPC-HC x64
is the player can playing HDR ?

In Blue Ray the situation is much better

Klaus1189

17th November 2019, 14:24

You need madVR and can choose what you want:
- passthrough the HDR metadata to the screen (OSD will show HDR)
- tonemap the HDR metadata with madVR (OSD will not show HDR, becuase the TV isn'T receiving HDR metadata anymore, because madVR did the tonemapping)

MPC-BE can also convert HDR to SDR with internal filters, without the need of madVR and MPC-BE development is very active. See its thread for more infos or questions:
Media Player Classic - BE Win32/x64
Here you can download latest Nightly build, don't worry -> rocksolid
https://yadi.sk/d/r7JYQ2NjHvE4lA/Beta/1.5.4
https://yadi.sk/d/hlf1lfC8mKU58

Klaus1189

18th November 2019, 17:59

Nvidia released 441.28 Studio driver

Klaus1189

19th November 2019, 17:57

AMD released new Radeon Driver 19.11.3

zapatista

20th November 2019, 15:30

looking at the driver feedback information: for my nvidia 1060 gfx card, would this still be the best driver to use for madvr ? (win 8.1 64 bit)

398.11 2018-06-05 last version with correct HDR passthrough newer versions passthrough bogus metadata, for details see here | Notice: It seems that madVR doesn't switch to HDR mode anymore with newer updates of Windows 10

i mainly send video to my sony 1080 tv over hdmi in RGB Full

with my gfx card now being a 2 yo model, i would assume newer driver versions would mainly add features for the newer card models

huhn

20th November 2019, 15:36

zapatista

20th November 2019, 16:41

because i am playing around with down converting some 4k HDR video files to 1080 with madvr , and my current 1080 tv can go up to 350 nits.

iirc early 1080 tv's usually only went up to about 150 - 180 nits , and most standard bluray mastering was (is ?) aimed at this . so with some of the 4k video down scaling to 1080 i am doing now, my next aim is to see if with some HDR files i can get a higher peak white in my 10 bit luma range to my tv.

disclaimer: i have no video expertise, just trying to squeeze a little further video improvement when playing some 4k HDR files

SamuriHL

20th November 2019, 16:47

But the point being your TV knows NOTHING about HDR, so passing correct metadata or not is irrelevant. What you're REALLY looking for is madvr's dynamic tone mapping solution so you can specify a real display nit that matches your tv and allow madvr to tonemap to that.

Klaus1189

20th November 2019, 17:42

why would you care about HDR passthrough if you don't have a HDR device.

if you want the last version with 3D support use that old driver and if not the newest is fine for SDR playback as far as everyone knows.

BTW. 3D is still "possible" with the newest driver but i said that before.

What is exactly possible in 3D with newest drivers and what is not? Is it helpful for users so I should add it in first post?

huhn

20th November 2019, 17:52

every computer game that worked in the past works now too and even new games like outerworlds work in 3D.

i get madVR to trigger 3D on my screen but it doesn't want to output 3D.
my guess only 3d vision works now not the OS 3D implementation. someone claimed 3D movies worked too but i haven't tested in in a long time i don't even have an nvidia card connected to a 3D device anymore.
or in short everything is still present in the GPU driver for 3D the last part is maybe up to madshi again.

the first time a talked about that it got totally ignored so it can't be that important and i personally couldn't care less about 3D every time i tested 3D i did it without glasses because i don't own any.

zapatista

21st November 2019, 03:20

SamuriHL,

thx for the correction, i shall check on that feature

Klaus1189

22nd November 2019, 17:30

Nvidia released 441.20 Game Ready Driver ... again?

huhn

22nd November 2019, 18:08

adding support for a new GPU nothing wrong with that.

Klaus1189

22nd November 2019, 21:20

But why not use Studio driver as basis and add support for the new card. Now there is a newer driver with an older version number. Looks odd nevertheless.

huhn

23rd November 2019, 00:01

you don't want to give a gamer a studio driver.

el Filou

23rd November 2019, 12:12

I'd say it depends on the release timing. The studio driver has the same game support as the last game ready driver released before it (release notes even list the recently added support for games), in addition to support for content creation apps.

huhn

23rd November 2019, 17:55

it's a marketing driver and you don't want to give your gamer only access to a studio driver.

it's doesn't matter what the content of the driver is the is name what matter and how that driver is delivered.
it doesn't matter if it is the same the AVG doesn't doesn't have a clue.

el Filou

26th November 2019, 20:52

Open Issues in Version 441.41 WHQL
Windows 10 Issues
[V-Sync]: V-Sync does not work. [2719115]Wow... :scared:

Klaus1189

26th November 2019, 21:25

I am still waiting for team blue for dedicated graphic cards, next year is gonna to be awesome :D

huhn

26th November 2019, 23:53

where can i take not working v-sync in one game for a working driver. i'm so sold.

nevcairiel

27th November 2019, 00:00

I am still waiting for team blue for dedicated graphic cards, next year is gonna to be awesome :D

Its a shame Intel graphics drivers have also been quite horrible since the beginning of time. :D

hntc255

27th November 2019, 10:05

Klaus1189

27th November 2019, 11:04

ryokoseigo

28th November 2019, 05:11

Hi guys , I am new here and I have a HDR proplem .

1. Play a HDR10 video and go fullscreen.
2. TV will not switch to HDR mode automatically, still SDR.
3. Refresh HDMI (unplug/plug HDMI cable or reboot TV ) , TV can switch to HDR mode.

***********

4. But if I turn the Windows 10 HDR button on , TV will switch to HDR mode automatically , so OS HDR API works well.

So I don't know what is wrong in my case. AMD driver? AMD HDR API? TV? MadVR? or something else.

Does someone has the same proplem?
Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks!!

I tried many settings but nothing useful.

OS : windows 10 1909
Player : MPC-BE + LAV + MadVR(HDR passthrough)
GPU : AMD RX580
Driver : 19.10.x / 19.11.x RGB 444 8bit
TV : HDMI 2.0 , HDR supported

Exact same issue now after a reinstall of windows. Even using the same madvr files as previous install.

Nvidia- lastest drivers 441.41 and windows 1909, with the same mpc-be and lav setup too.

So confused why this is happening. It's happened to me before, and I don't really know what I did to fix it back then either.

hntc255

29th November 2019, 04:13

What happens when checking "Launch files in fullscreen" in MPC-BE?
I checked and can state that latest 19.11.3 is fine in windowed mode and fullscreen exclusive mode on Win10 1909.

What TV brand and exact model do you use? madVR version?

Thank you first.:p

I tried "Launch files in fullscreen" and exclusive mode , but it is the same.

TV : Toshiba 75u6900c (actually a TCL)
madVR : v0.92.17

all of the software are lastest version.

hntc255

29th November 2019, 04:16

Exact same issue now after a reinstall of windows. Even using the same madvr files as previous install.

Nvidia- lastest drivers 441.41 and windows 1909, with the same mpc-be and lav setup too.

So confused why this is happening. It's happened to me before, and I don't really know what I did to fix it back then either.

So it means that AMD / NV is innocent? :rolleyes:

Klaus1189

29th November 2019, 12:32

Probably a Win10 1909 issue, but only when creating a new fresh insallation?! It is fine here, but I was already on 1903 (did a fresh install back then) and did the update to 1909 via Windows update which was pretty small, so ...

tyguy

1st December 2019, 04:24

On the latest game ready drivers I’ve had issues with elevated blacks in hdr with madvr using ycbcr 422 with TV set to hdmi low black level with lgc9. The blacks are fine for me using rgb full and TV set to hdmi black level high.

huhn

1st December 2019, 05:44

did you change anything else then this output format setting?

Warner306

1st December 2019, 18:12

Hi guys , I am new here and I have a HDR proplem .

1. Play a HDR10 video and go fullscreen.
2. TV will not switch to HDR mode automatically, still SDR.
3. Refresh HDMI (unplug/plug HDMI cable or reboot TV ) , TV can switch to HDR mode.

***********

4. But if I turn the Windows 10 HDR button on , TV will switch to HDR mode automatically , so OS HDR API works well.

So I don't know what is wrong in my case. AMD driver? AMD HDR API? TV? MadVR? or something else.

Does someone has the same proplem?
Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks!!

I tried many settings but nothing useful.

OS : windows 10 1909
Player : MPC-BE + LAV + MadVR(HDR passthrough)
GPU : AMD RX580
Driver : 19.10.x / 19.11.x RGB 444 8bit
TV : HDMI 2.0 , HDR supported

AMD HDR requires 10-bit output from madVR (D3D11). Did you do that?

tyguy

1st December 2019, 23:34

did you change anything else then this output format setting?

I set madvr to tv levels and also lavfilter video decoder to tv levels.

huhn

1st December 2019, 23:43

first of don't touch the lavfilter setting.

second that's always wrong the PC desktop works in full range.
when a GPU is ask to output YCbCr "whatever" it assumes a full range RGB image as an input and it will turn this into to a limited range YCbCr image that why YCbCr is not recommended as an output.

Asmodian

2nd December 2019, 00:43

I set madvr to tv levels and also lavfilter video decoder to tv levels.

I already (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1891137#post1891137) tried to tell you why that is the wrong setting.

If it sounds like your GPU starts sending limited range when in HDR so you get double compression (elevated blacks and depressed whites) when setting madVR to limited range.

hntc255

2nd December 2019, 01:36

hntc255

2nd December 2019, 01:50

AMD HDR requires 10-bit output from madVR (D3D11). Did you do that?

I tried the color format ycbcr 422 10 bit / 12bit , 420 10bit / 12bit in AMD driver.

And set "the native display bitdepth is '10bit or higher' "

As I say , it works fine after refresh the HDMI , really strange.

:thanks:

Klaus1189

2nd December 2019, 06:15

Other devices do work fine? I can also think of a reset of the TV, because I had strange things occuring on different manufactures after software update of the TV.

Klaus1189

3rd December 2019, 18:56

AMD released new Radeon Driver 19.12.1

Grimsdyke

4th December 2019, 12:35

Does anyone maybe know why the exe-installer of the intel-vga-driver does not work anymore on my system ?? It seem to open but then nothing happens.
So I have to use the zip-version, un-pack, and start the installer within. This works without any problems.
Is Win10-64bit security blocking the normal exe ? But why ? Any ideas ? Thx

Klaus1189

4th December 2019, 13:41

Perhaps corrupted file, check the size of exactly your downloaded file and download another copy again, compare the size of these two. It can happen from time to time, when something went wrong in the data transmission.

ced007

4th December 2019, 18:43

Hi,
I'm not sure to understand correctly the Nvidia table in the first post, I have a 1060 GTX with latest drivers. Is the 398.11 driver the latest version with correct HDR passthrough? Do I need to switch back to it?
Thanks in advance

Klaus1189

4th December 2019, 19:46

Hi ced007, it depends:
If you want to use HDR passthrough for Nvidia and want correct metadata :) you need either 398.11 from 2018-06-05 if you need/want to be able to use 3D or, if you don't need 3D, you can use 430.39 from 2019-04-23 or any newer version than that, preferred the newest for now, since there are no issues, at least I am I am aware of. RTX owners have no choice if they want both 3D and correct metadata, since there is no driver for RTX cards which can do both :(

ced007

4th December 2019, 20:30

Thank you Klaus1189, it helps a lot. I don't need 3D so I stay with the latest version 441.41.

Warner306

5th December 2019, 11:08

You might consider adding this link to the first post. This is a software fix that adds back 3D Vision support to newer Nvidia drivers. I have not tested it myself, but someone at AVS Forums says it works:

http://helixmod.blogspot.com/2017/05/3d-fix-manager.html

Someone here would have to test it.

Klaus1189

5th December 2019, 11:28

I added it, but I had to shorten some things because I used to many characters :eek:
See here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ci43APVR38gUEMAqhDF_cO_SowJEi-DG/view?usp=sharing)

brazen1

5th December 2019, 17:13

I think that software is for gaming 3D only. 416.81 is still a good choice for 3D and HDR imo.

huhn

5th December 2019, 17:33

i already tested the helixmod a couple of months after nvidia removed 3D.
it doesn't work with madVR it only trigger 3d on my screen but doesn't send it and the OS doesn't know about 3D.

it could be used to add 3d back into madVR because all games work but that's it for now.

SamuriHL

11th December 2019, 00:38

New nVidia driver. Doesn't appear to impact HTPC....let's hope it doesn't break anything. LOL

https://www.neowin.net/news/nvidia-44166-whql-driver-delivers-mechwarrior-5-and-detroit-become-human-optimizations

huhn

11th December 2019, 01:04

the new amd driver has a great start: https://abload.de/img/amdriverivkfy.png
that's with disabled overlay.

SamuriHL

11th December 2019, 01:24

I don't think that word means what they think it means. LMAO

mclingo

11th December 2019, 13:30

Klaus1189, is the issue with raised blacks in EVR and incorrect colour space on 5700s worth a mention on your driver page?

Klaus1189

11th December 2019, 17:37

I thought of that already, but since this thread is meant for use with madVR and if you use either madVR or also MPC Video Renderer with D3D11 you don't have this issue. But I can add it if you wish. Just let me know.

mclingo

11th December 2019, 18:17

the EVR is definately affecting all 5700 cards so I'd deinately put that one down. The MADVR issue, even though we are not 100% sure it affects all cards, only one person has come back and said it isnt affecting them and they havent yet given us all their hardware details,I think right now we should assume its all 5700 cards.

- All 5700 series cards have elevated blacks withe EVR renderer: Workaround - use MPC or MADVR renderer.
- All NAVI based cards are outputting an incorrect colour space via the AMD HDR API, colours are greatly unsaturated - workaround; use a filter to correct or use Windows HDR

its your thread though mate, its up to you :) :) :) :)

Klaus1189

11th December 2019, 19:52

Can you give me some info for the affected driver versions? Can you also give me a link for the demo footage video where the sidebyside comparison was made? I want to take a look at the video.

mclingo

11th December 2019, 20:29

Hi, this is a new card, as far as I know both issues affect all driver versions. Not sure which footage you are referring to, I took pictures and mocked one up to try and show what the saturatiuon issue looks like. DMU and ALEXTRAL seem to have more detailed info on the HDR issue.

Klaus1189

11th December 2019, 20:31

Sorry, I missread the username, I want that one:
Perhaps he has an old AMD driver installed - 19.4.3 and earlier.
Picture. (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1KCPGNNIUYrrnvlQ68_l81BSOgaVCxg65)

mclingo

11th December 2019, 20:57

its quite big but here you go.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBijewz8ePJ4_QsFnnVrw?e=DhlreQ

mclingo

15th December 2019, 00:48

gave up on my RX 5700, just too unstable, as well as the EVR and HDR issues I was getting system hangs which are too dangerous for my server with 10 disks in it, in the process of putting my RX580 back in.

Klaus1189

15th December 2019, 11:31

#802
Thank you for the info. I added it to the first post. This thread needs guys like you, who feed me with info ;)

I never got system hangs with my 5700 XT, perhaps a faulty gfx card?

huhn

15th December 2019, 13:24

BSOD are rare compared to driver crashes but they have been reported in a comparable very high quantity with the RX 5700 XT compared to other cards.

you find everything about every card so it matter a lot how many cards are out there compared to the report numbers.

most issue with RC 5700 series cards that are reported not effecting every user are high refreshrate related. for example up to this day freesync with 240 hz screen is faulty they had this added in the driver notes as an issue but never show it under fixed issues...

just as a reminder i can't use my card at all with out the driver been crashing every 10-15 mins when used for 4 months the current driver is the first one i could use the card at all.

oldpainlesskodi

15th December 2019, 13:31

huhn

15th December 2019, 13:46

AGS changed a lot with newer version you can not simply upgrade it so that means more work.

DMU

15th December 2019, 14:00

AGS changed a lot with newer version you can not simply upgrade it so that means more work.

AGS has changed a lot, but it looks like the old issues remain (https://github.com/GPUOpen-LibrariesAndSDKs/AGS_SDK/issues/30).

QBhd

15th December 2019, 15:13

I wonder if Madshi will be able to look at the AMD HDR API at some point? I get massively different saturation levels on the AMD API vs the OS HDR, its like the AMD API switches into HDR mode, but doesn't trigger BT2020 mode.

Why do most of you think OS HDR is accurate? Do you really think Windows is doing everything right? I tried OS HDR and colors looked over saturated. Like when you feed an OLED SDR and have the color gamut set to wide instead of auto.

I think to many fall into the "vivid" color trap.

QB

DMU

15th December 2019, 15:39

oldpainlesskodi

15th December 2019, 15:55

Why do most of you think OS HDR is accurate? Do you really think Windows is doing everything right? I tried OS HDR and colors looked over saturated. Like when you feed an OLED SDR and have the color gamut set to wide instead of auto.

I think to many fall into the "vivid" color trap.

QB

i think you may have misunderstood what I said, as I didn't mention accuracy (that's a whole different topic), I said very different.

My display has 2 different colour modes - 1 is Auto (detect and display the incoming signal as is), the other Native (expand the incoming signal to the display). Using the AMD API, if I set auto, its very very under saturated, so I have to use Native to map to colour space to the set, otherwise the colours are flat.

With the OS HDR API, Auto (what looks like to me) displays the correct BT2020 signal, and looks very vibrant, but now if I select Native, it's under saturated.

Hope the above makes sense, as clearly there is a big difference, that should not be there.

EDIT - DMU made my point for me.

mclingo

15th December 2019, 16:12

that does make a lot of sense, so what you are saying is that you can correct the undersaturation with the 5700 card by selecting native on your TV, whcih model is this mate?

mclingo

15th December 2019, 16:14

qbhd, can you let us know:

Windows Version
AMD driver Version
MADVR version + HDR version
LAV version
Media player used
HDMI port used on TV and type (bluray/PC etc)
full processing chain from PC to TV

oldpainlesskodi

15th December 2019, 16:22

that does make a lot of sense, so what you are saying is that you can correct the undersaturation with the 5700 card by selecting native on your TV, whcih model is this mate?

As in my sig - Samsung UE55KS8000

mclingo

15th December 2019, 16:33

ok chears, just wanted to be sure, I thought it was a samsung, i'm now thinking I might put this card in my other PC with my MU8000 TV to see if switching to Native also fixes that, its only a 40inch though so isnt my daily driver.

DMU

15th December 2019, 17:14

i'm now thinking I might put this card in my other PC with my MU8000 TV to see if switching to Native also fixes that
It will not fix the issue. Native = BT.709 in this case.

mclingo

15th December 2019, 17:24

So, when playing HDR movie with MADVR output HDR to TV, Samsung TV owners with NAVI/ 5700 cards get this?

Samsung TV - OS HDR -colour space auto - correct colour space
samsung TV - OS HDR - colour space native - unsaturated
Samsung TV - ATI HDR - colour space auto - unsaturated
Samsung TV - ATI HDR - colour native - unsaturated

?

DMU

15th December 2019, 17:38

mclingo

15th December 2019, 17:53

so there is no combination of settings on a samsung TV which makes colours unsaturated using OS HDR, its just AMD API, I just wanted to clarify that, there are a lot of variabbles here.

So we really need an answer back from QBHD about their setup, it make no sense unless he's not actually engaged HDR mode in MADVR and not realised this.

oldpainlesskodi

15th December 2019, 19:00

I am not the owner of the NAVI GPU, but I think so:
Samsung TV - OS HDR -colour space auto - correct colour space (DCI-P3)
Samsung TV - OS HDR - colour space native - correct colour space (DCI-P3)
Samsung TV - ATI HDR - colour space auto - unsaturated (BT.709)
Samsung TV - ATI HDR - colour native - unsaturated (BT.709)

No, below corrected -

Samsung TV - OS HDR -colour space auto - correct colour space
Samsung TV - ATI HDR - colour space auto - unsaturated (BT.709)
Samsung TV - ATI HDR - colour native - unsaturated (BT.709)

mclingo

15th December 2019, 19:12

what about OS HDR with native?

oldpainlesskodi

15th December 2019, 20:22

Still undersatuarted. I assume it needs the BT2020 flag from auto when using OS HDR - hope that makes sense.

DMU

15th December 2019, 20:48

Still undersatuarted.
This is because you are using older driver. With the new 19.12.2 and all OS updates, there are no more BT.2020 issue (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1qxpyw-UzKljUSquEqk0dRT8_OEme5lDQ) in the OS HDR mode.

mclingo

15th December 2019, 21:02

i had no OS hdr issues with any driver versions, only ati api

DMU

15th December 2019, 21:17

i had no OS hdr issues with any driver versions, only ati api
This issue is not permanent. This is a phantom issue. In my screenshot there is an issue and not with the same driver and the same OS.

mclingo

15th December 2019, 21:24

ok, I dont normally use OS HDR anyway so lets put that to one side for now, this is getting confusing. Are you stating that AMD HDR API is currently working fine for you with certain driver versions?

DMU

15th December 2019, 22:23

No. I have never claimed this.

mclingo

15th December 2019, 23:12

can you clarify exactly what you are claiming then, your last two statments made little sense within the context if this conversation, either you have a problem or you dont, if you do have a problem, either you can defeat it by changing to a different driver or you cant?

oldpainlesskodi

16th December 2019, 07:55

I forgot to update my sig, I am on the latest driver (sig updated), in short, what I get is this:

Samsung TV - OS HDR -colour space auto - correct colour space, as in it puts the set into BT2020 mode.
Samsung TV - OS HDR - colour space native - incorrect - undersatuated.
Samsung TV - ATI HDR - colour space auto - unsaturated
Samsung TV - ATI HDR - colour native - better than auto, as the dispplay is trying to map the incoming signal to the displays native colour space.

Hope thats clear.

DMU

16th December 2019, 09:04

@mclingo
With the latest driver version, I can solve the problem of unsaturated colors using the OS HDR only.

@oldpainlesskodi
It is strange that you have a different results with NATIVE and AUTO, since these modes are identical for TV.

oldpainlesskodi

16th December 2019, 09:19

That may be true, but do, so who knows. What I do know is that the AMD API is delivering a very different image compared to the OS HDR toggle.

mclingo

16th December 2019, 13:32

yeah that all makes sense now, I was concerned there was a general issue with HDR but its clearly just AMD API isnt it.

Still complete silence from QBHD who claims to be having "no issues" - this is very odd.

oldpainlesskodi

16th December 2019, 13:43

If I am not mistaken, looks like reports are starting to surface on the AVS forum on the BT2020 issue with the AMD API.

mclingo

16th December 2019, 15:31

great, hoping MADSHI will finally pick this up and maybe put a workaround in maybe.

oldpainlesskodi

16th December 2019, 15:40

Its not an ideal solution, but even a Madr option for Madvr to trigger the OS HDR toggle on and off would be a workaround.

mclingo

16th December 2019, 16:47

you know what, i think that would be a good idea regardless off this issue as NVIDIA and AMD have broken their HDR switch on a number of occasions.

at least we're getting some traction on it now though, if MADSHI pics up on it he might have a contact at AMD like he does with NVIDIA.

chros

16th December 2019, 17:12

even a Madr option for Madvr to trigger the OS HDR toggle on and off would be a workaround.
Can't you toggle the OS HDR option via command line somehow? (I don't have it on the ancient 1607.) In that case you can do it with madvr, until it will be added.

oldpainlesskodi

16th December 2019, 17:13

I have no idea - will do a bit of digging

mclingo

16th December 2019, 18:01

this was posted a while back, its little app that toggles windows hdr on and off, very handy for this, you could addcit into a MADVR profile or just use it from a batch as part of your media player load etc.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBij8B8NGNOQYG3-ANvQg?e=eOOt7q

I was going to use this but I found I preferred the MADVR HDR to SDR conversion better than windows HDR, bu then my card started hanging my system so I took it out for now.

mclingo

16th December 2019, 18:04

and if you prefer vbs scripts:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBij8B95OIo_hKZQ2sJ-A?e=hYRqWR

oldpainlesskodi

16th December 2019, 18:10

Yeah, thanks for posting this, I've come across this, but I just cant get it to work reliable - keeps messing up.

EDIT - yeah, seen the scripts, and on win 10 1904.1 they jump straight to resize, rather than toggle HDR, if that makes sense.

But thanks again for posting/helping.

mclingo

16th December 2019, 18:27

yeah I had the same issue with the scripts but the toggle worked well for me, I setup a shortcut in autohotkey, you can trigger it while watching a movie in KODI DS but you need to then restart the movie.

The filter is a better option if you are using something like MPC-HC as you main driver as again you can toggle this using a hotkey, and you dont have to restart the movie, however I just couldnt get it to work with KODI DS, too complicated for me to setup.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBij8B-glwqz6xSkbdyQQ?e=Nib73V

oldpainlesskodi

16th December 2019, 18:29

Ok thanks - will look into the hotkey option'trigger for the toggle option.

mclingo

19th December 2019, 16:30

Hi, can someone try 19.12.3 and let me know if either EVR or HDR BT2020 is fixed, i'm back on my RX 580 for now.

cheers :)

Fixed Issues

Game and boost clocks may be incorrectly reported for Radeon RX 5500 XT graphics products in Radeon Software.
Radeon Software Install may experience an error and fail to detect AMD graphics hardware when a certain WiFi adapter is enabled in the system.
Rocket League may crash or experience an application hang after performing a task switch.
A black screen may occur when Performance Metrics Overlay is open and changing game resolution.
After disabling Radeon Software Overlay users may still see the toast messages for the overlay shortcut while in fullscreen games.
Audio from custom scenes may continue to play after recording or streaming has been stopped.
Installer audio has been reduced as it was too loud on some system configurations.
Some users may be unable to select drop downs in graphics settings for Tessellation Mode.
Radeon ReLive may appear to be missing or not available to install on some system configurations with Hyper-V enabled.
Newly added game profiles may fail to enable the currently selected global graphics settings options in their profile.
Performing an auto update from web to Adrenalin 2020 Edition from Adrenalin 2019 Edition may fail with an error code.
Improved Radeon Chill experience when using a gaming mouse.
Switching between borderless and fullscreen in some games when Performance Overlay is enabled and Radeon FreeSync is enabled may cause stuttering.
MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries may experience black corruption near the bottom of the screen close to the player model.
Radeon Anti-Lag may fail to enable for DirectX 9 applications when enabled in the global graphics settings options.
Radeon Anti-Lag may fail to enable for Counter-Strike: Global Offensive.
The custom stream option may fail to present users with a url box to choose their endpoint.
DirectML Media Filters may fail to apply Upscale and Denoise when attempting to do both at the same time on one image.
Some Radeon FreeSync enabled displays may experience LFC intermittently enabling mid game causing poor performance or stutter.
A grey box may prevent users from setting custom hotkeys in the scene editor.
Performing Auto Tuning for graphics clocks on Radeon RX 5700 XT may result in an extremely high OC or unstable OC.
Some games may experience instability and screen loss or control loss when performing a task switch when the Gaming profile is set in Radeon Software which enables Radeon Enhanced Sync.
Radeon Image Sharpening may fail to enable in Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order.
HDCP 2.2 enabled content may fail to play on some Radeon RX 500 series graphics products.

huhn

19th December 2019, 17:10

nope to DXVA2.

mclingo

19th December 2019, 17:13

thanks

:(

mclingo

21st December 2019, 14:03

i tried to generate some dicussion on the AVS HDR thread but there just arent enough people with 5700 cards, NVIDIA is still leading here, and with prices still being very high of this card this is unlikely to change. I only bought 5700 this time around because of AMDs continued support for 3D.

mclingo

21st December 2019, 14:29

i've also logged as bug / request on madvr to see if madshi can do anything.

mclingo

23rd December 2019, 15:48

getting no traction at all with this HDR BT2020 issue on the 5700 series cards, was hoping MADSHI would pick it up but nothing from him yet. Nothing from AMD either, getting pretty cheesed off having a £350 card sat in a box doing nothing. I'll give it another week and then shove it on ebay.

oldpainlesskodi

23rd December 2019, 16:26

I'll admit its a pain right now having to use the windows HDR toggle, but, lets hope either Madshi or AMD pick this up.

chros

23rd December 2019, 16:40

I'll give it another week and then shove it on ebay.
I'm certain that nothing will happen (not just) in a week, so you can post it *before* Xmas! :D

mclingo

23rd December 2019, 17:40

Alexkrals filter works really well in MPC-HC, I just couldnt get it to work in KODI DS which would have been my ideal solution, I'm sure it was user error though, there are no numpty proof clear instructions anywhere to add a filter into KODI DS and then set it up, I spent a couple of hours trying to figure it out and gave up :)

DMU

25th December 2019, 01:38

@mclingo
Wrote a draft of questions to AMD. Since English is not my native language, I ask you for help in editing, if something is not clearly explained to them.

Hi there.
You have entered support for HDR mode. The agsSetDisplayMode() function used to set a specific display in HDR mode, does its job perfectly: it sends metadata to the display device, which is defined in section 6.9 «Dynamic Range and Mastering InfoFrame» according to Table 5 of the CTA-861 standard. But in the same Table 5 there is also «Auxiliary Video Information (AVI)» defined in section 6.4. And all display devices are required to use the color space (colorimetry) from this data section (AVI InfoFrame) for the current video signal.
Suppose we are in SDR mode with the standard sRGB color space. And we want to switch to the HDR mode with the BT.2020 color space, which is the main one for this mode. By calling the agsSetDisplayMode() function, we put the display device in HDR mode. And we see distorted or unsaturated colors. This is because the display device did not receive the corresponding flag from the GPU in the AVI InfoFrame and is trying to display our BT.2020 color space in its sRGB.
Please tell me, do you think that such HDR support in AGS_SDK is sufficient? If yes, then advise what else needs to be done so that the display device passes into the correct color space when activating the HDR mode using AGS?

mclingo

25th December 2019, 22:29

HI, that looks fine to me, I dont understand all of it but it makes sense enough gramatically

jkauff

26th December 2019, 16:48

A few days ago I purchased an Asus GeForce GTX 1660 Super Overclocked 6GB Dual-Fan Evo Edition graphics card for my office PC. List price is a reasonable $229.99, with no discounts as of yet. Running latest drivers.

The Super GTX 1660 does an excellent job with madVR, almost as good as the GTX 1080 in my HTPC. I can run NGU at High or better doubling/quadrupling HD and SD sources on my 4K computer monitor. 6GB GDDR6 memory is a nice plus.

Great way to spend some holiday gift cards if you need an upgrade.

NoTechi

28th December 2019, 11:37

Would it be possible to use the internal Intel gpu only for one application while nvidia takes care of everything else?
I used to use an Intel NUC and mvc 3D including HD audio worked great there. My idea now is to have a special Kodi version for my HTPC which is only for 3D and uses only the Intel gpu.
So I would have everything on one system, one Kodi for 3D with the Intel gpu (without madvr) and a second Kodi with mpc-be as external player for everything else (with madvr).

Do you think this is a feasible solution, if it is even possible, or am I going into driver hell because the two drivers (Intel vs. Nvidia) interfere with each other?

NoTechi

huhn

28th December 2019, 12:57

possible.
but without better details no way to say for sure.

jkauff

28th December 2019, 14:39

Would it be possible to use the internal Intel gpu only for one application while nvidia takes care of everything else?
If you had two displays, each one connected to a GPU, this would be easier. Most players can deal with multiple monitors.

Does Kodi allow you to choose the GPU it uses? If so, you should be good to go (assuming your motherboard supports multiple GPUs). Drivers won't be a problem.

NoTechi

28th December 2019, 15:32

If you had two displays, each one connected to a GPU, this would be easier. Most players can deal with multiple monitors.

Does Kodi allow you to choose the GPU it uses? If so, you should be good to go (assuming your motherboard supports multiple GPUs). Drivers won't be a problem.

I got a second display connected but thats just for calibration and other tuning stuff. My main is a JVC projector and thats where I would like to have still the option for playing 3D mvc while using latest nvidia driver (without 3D support) for other stuff.

I just mentioned Kodi because I thought I could force an application to use the internal GPU (Intel UHD Graphic 630) instead of the Nvidia e.g. through Windows 10 settings. I haven't found anything like that yet. I don't care about the player as long as it can play 3D mvc iso. I can't find the option to select a gpu in mpc be. Could you show me the setting or recommend another 3D mvc capable player where I can select the gpu?

If I would find a way I could connect the internal gpu with my avr and switch the avr to this hdmi as soon as I start a player just dedicated for playing 3D.... not nice but better then no 3D .. ;)

Well guess I will just have to try a bit :)

NoTechi

huhn

28th December 2019, 15:36

i don't know why i get ignored but does your board have HDMI 2.0?

NoTechi

28th December 2019, 15:47

i don't know why i get ignored but does your board have HDMI 2.0?

Oh sorry did not wanted to ignore you, it was more a replay to both of you :)

Not sure but I would guess so yes it is an Asus ROG STRIX H370-F GAMING.

NoTechi

Klaus1189

28th December 2019, 16:04

Worth to look at it, although it is mentioned for games, but media players are also applications which should be selectable, too.

https://www.howtogeek.com/351522/how-to-choose-which-gpu-a-game-uses-on-windows-10/

NoTechi

28th December 2019, 16:17

NoTechi

30th December 2019, 17:24

Well just half of a success so far. I tried PotPlayer and the 3D Kodi and following the instructions from Klaus link both are using the internal Intel gpu now. I can also get a stereoscopic like picture with both but my JVC is not recognizing it as 3D so I can't activate my 3D glasses.

Anyhow this is getting offtopic to this thread so thanks all for hints and I will have to investigate further to find a solution ... If I can't find one I might end up with switching to AMD ... rumors of the new AMD gpu's to be releleased 2020 sound promising :)

NoTechi

huhn

30th December 2019, 22:27

if you connect the projector to the intel iGPU and tell the PC to use the nvidia GPU with let's say MPC-HC you can do processing with the nvidia card and still output 3D.

WuNgUn

1st January 2020, 04:43

Tried to downgrade to 398.11 for my Geforce card (Win10 x64) and the installer tells me it's not compatible with my version... Which it should be.
Maybe I need to do a driver cleaning first..?

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

Klaus1189

1st January 2020, 08:56

Yes, do this first, report back.

littleD

1st January 2020, 09:13

Be aware nvidia serves new DCH driver model by default. You cannot install normal whql over DCH. I think its possible to install DCH over standard whql, but with no way back. Only complete remove by DDU helps in installing whql again.

Manni

1st January 2020, 12:09

I wasn’t able to install 398 reliably on Windows 190x, despite many clean install attempts following DDU passes. You need to downgrade the OS as well if you want to go back.

This might also resolve the very annoyingly slow nvidia control panel (it takes minutes to show up and change some of the settings) that I habe since I left 180x.

If I could I’d stay on 1809 with 398.

littleD

1st January 2020, 13:31

I imagine 39xx line would be enough for old cards like maxwell and old games. I have some right now some unknown source of COD2 stuttering despite reaching 60fps. I believe its from drivers.
But new cards with new games works good with 4xx. Go for some stable maybe 441.41 otherwise you need specific htcp feature unbroken.

WuNgUn

1st January 2020, 13:59

398.11 is installing, after running DDU from safe mode....

Edit: so, maybe the pass thru is working fine on this driver, but picture quality isn't great...
Last night on new driver, using tone map/120nits, the image really popped.
Now, passing meta data thru, the image looks like SDR, like I'm looking thru a veil.
But turning off pass thru, the image is REALLY washed out... Ugh
All in all, not a lot of different from the different settings...

WuNgUn

1st January 2020, 14:24

You can make out the difference in these images... But there should be a bigger image quality difference...
When I change HDR setting, with the picture image in full screen, I can see a flicker of deep, rich colour for a split second... Then it reverts back to meh.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200101/10ae94fc5bc7da112bf1bd0d4c3e490d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200101/4ec3c2ec3c2a7ae32ec8c1c93204193e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200101/d42359d7ebeb4143fbfbbf7eff1bab92.jpg

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

WuNgUn

1st January 2020, 14:51

With driver 430.39
Looks like pass thru is much improved...or false! But I much prefer the image.

(also an image of shader mapping) https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200101/5f07993312a1e77de03625316cdc7dcd.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200101/1dc7874736dcf69d7f35ef397167bebf.jpg

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

mclingo

3rd January 2020, 16:53

still no news on the 5700 series HDR problem, I only have a few days left on my RMA, I still cant decide whether to put it back it my machine and wait for a fix or sack it off, its a powerful card compared to me RX580 so naturally I want to keep it but I have to deploy too many workarounds for it, its a little annoying and I dont like the results I get from windows HDR api alone.

nothing from MADSHI either, I was hoping he'd be able to add force BT2020 switch or something which would be easy for him but it looks like all of his time is going into the hardware / tone mapping.

has anyone else heard anything or found any new workarounds?

:(

el Filou

3rd January 2020, 17:13

Did you share it on gaming forums? If I'm not mistaken, the earlier HDR games used the private APIs to switch the display (maybe recent ones still do, I don't know), so 5700 owners who game in HDR may have encountered the same problem, and most gaming issues get looked at quicker than video playback issues.
madshi is probably working full time on the Envy and tone mapping and there always was little hope that he would find a fix for this before the return period for your purchase ended.
(The fact a majority of madVR users have Nvidia cards certainly doesn't help.)

mclingo

3rd January 2020, 18:29

I dont really go on gaming forums to be honest, I may look at that but I logged it on AMD forums and it got no replies, i'm a little surprised this hasnt been picked up yet, this should be a fairly major bug AMD would want to resolve, unless its actually something in MADVR itself, that is still a possibility and could explain why its not getting picked up by gamers.

Does anyone know any games that use the AMD HDR API so I can maybe try them?

DMU

3rd January 2020, 19:43

I created a post here (https://github.com/GPUOpen-LibrariesAndSDKs/AGS_SDK/issues/33). But there is no answer.

mclingo

3rd January 2020, 19:52

are we sure this is the API, wouldnt my RX580 card now be using this new API?, that doesnt have this issue.

DMU

3rd January 2020, 20:16

Not sure. This may be a bug in the drivers, which does not apply to Polaris.

mclingo

3rd January 2020, 21:43

ive decided to keep my card, ive found some workaronds I can now live with. My main player is KODI DS, because my HDR TV only has MAX nits of 400 using tone mapping to convert to SDR negates the need for the HDR API, I see no difference at all on my TV between full HDR mode and Tone mapped to SDR.

My secondary is MPC-BE, i mainly just use this to quickly demo something, it was handy as a backup. It still plays HDR stuff fine but the EVR renderer as you know outputs the wrong colour space with this card so I've added a 16-235 to 0-255 conversion shader as on shortcut key so I can leave this on and toggle it off if I want to quickly demo something in HDR.

The main reason I want to keep this card is that using NGU AA even at low caused my RX580 to blow hard, this new card is very quiet even at NGU AA High for both upscale and chroma + tone mapping.

NoTechi

4th January 2020, 21:08

After lots of frustration to get 3D mvc files working again with my 1080 I decided to get a AMD 5700XT. I don't care about the HDR bug since I use madvr tone mapping anyhow.
As very short performance test before I switched the card I took a look at rendering times for a tone mapped HDR in madvr in a movie and I have to say the rendering times with exactly the same madvr settings are kinda the same perhaps 1-2 lower. Everything is working fine beside 3D mvc :mad:

What I have tried is:
1. PowerDVD demo version with no success
2. Potplayer with madvr with no success
3. MPC-Be (my standard for everything) with madvr and lav filters with no success

It's already strange that madvr is not reporting 3D within the info when playing a 3D mvc file. I tried many different lav,mpc-be settings and madvr settings but can't get it working. Even reinstalled lav-filters.

Could someone confirm they got 3D mvc files working with an AMD 5700XT. As a last option, I plan to install Windows from scratch, but first I want to get confirmation that 3D still works with AMD ...

NoTechi

mclingo

4th January 2020, 21:31

this is odd, 3d is pretty solid on AMD cards, do you have a demo file you can post I can test for you, works fine with my RX 5700

is your player set with MADVR as renderer, it wont work otherwise (apart from POWERDVD)
make sure the movie starts in full screen and that you are using refresh rate matching in MADVR + remember to to turn on 3D in MADVR to.
try FSE on or OFF
if you are using MPC-BE try using external filters, not a fan of their internal filters anyway, or use MPC-HC with external filters.

here is a decent test file:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBijd4nAYlIVwDJiWPLGg?e=NtBXvi

NoTechi

5th January 2020, 00:12

Your testfile is working but it is not 3D mvc it is SBS which is a lower resolution then mvc.

Could you please try like the first 3D mvc iso sample here:
3D MVC ISO Testfiles (https://kodi.wiki/view/Samples#3D_Test_Clips)

NoTechi

huhn

5th January 2020, 00:54

did you make sure that you installed the 3d software decoder?

NoTechi

5th January 2020, 04:30

did you make sure that you installed the 3d software decoder?

The one which is optional when installing lav filters? Yes

NoTechi

mclingo

5th January 2020, 05:14

ah wait, are you trying to play 3d ISO files?, this will be your problem, you really need to put them in a MKV container using with something like makeMKV, this is a full rip to MVC, no loss of quality not SBS, my file is a FULL MVC file in MKV format.

If you play my file and it shows as SbS it means you are trying to play it with MPC-BE using the downloadable MVC decoder, its buggy at best, ive never got that to work properly. Do what I said before, dont use the internal filters in MPC-BE, install latest lav filters, then add them all externally to MPC-BE, that will then work as long as you also set it to play in full screen.

NoTechi

5th January 2020, 13:20

ah wait, are you trying to play 3d ISO files?, this will be your problem, you really need to put them in a MKV container using with something like makeMKV, this is a full rip to MVC, no loss of quality not SBS, my file is a FULL MVC file in MKV format.

Yes my files are iso. I was just assuming your test file is a SBS.mkv converted from an mvc.iso since it has SBS in its file name (3D TEST.MVC.3D.SBS.mkv).
Anyhow if mvc mkv is possible that could be a stopgap solution. I am just sceptical since with nvidia and the old drivers I was able to play those iso mvc files in 3D just fine in the same setup (mbc-be with external lav filters and madvr). Now with the same setup and just switched from Nvidia to AMD card I still can play the iso but they are shown in 2D.
I will try to convert one of my iso to mkv once I am back at my HTPC.

If you play my file and it shows as SbS it means you are trying to play it with MPC-BE using the downloadable MVC decoder, its buggy at best, ive never got that to work properly. Do what I said before, dont use the internal filters in MPC-BE, install latest lav filters, then add them all externally to MPC-BE, that will then work as long as you also set it to play in full screen.

Thats what I have already thats my standard setup for everything.
Please do me a favour and try sample 1 and sample 7 Kodi 3D mvc test files with your mpc-be setup.
Kodi 3D samples (https://kodi.wiki/view/Samples#3D_Test_Clips)
I get on sample 1 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwxFVkl63-lEd2c0ekxfbFd3Tmc/view) just a 2D picture from the iso.
But I also get just a 2D picture on sample 7 (https://thedigitaltheater.wetransfer.com/downloads/b4b7719af652e47fecb22615e0a2646920170406213427/c95083) which is an mkv mvc.
Are you also just getting 2D with those two samples?

NoTechi

huhn

5th January 2020, 13:25

iso from BD are supported.

just do it the hard way for a test.
set your windows to 1080p3d and try it then.

DMU

5th January 2020, 20:13

ive decided to keep my card, ive found some workaronds I can now live with.

Have you tried Kodi Matrix 19.0 HDR Edition 4.0-rc3 (https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=345566)? He uses WinAPI to HDR passthrough, so your Navi GPU should display the correct color space.

NoTechi

5th January 2020, 23:08

iso from BD are supported.

just do it the hard way for a test.
set your windows to 1080p3d and try it then.

Just did with no success. Files are being played but in 2D only (also madvr info screen does not indicate 3D)

It's already strange that I don't have any settings within the AMD driver (19.12.2) related to 3D, so I guess I am missing something. I did some research and found AMD had something in regards to 3D called HD3d in the past. Even though this was for playing games in 3D at 60hz it also was supporting 3D movies and youtube videos showed promising 3D video settings.
Is there anything similiar available now since links to AMD HD3d drivers and docs (https://community.amd.com/docs/DOC-1354) lead nowhere?

NoTechi

huhn

5th January 2020, 23:21

mclingo

5th January 2020, 23:48

Just did with no success.

NoTechi

just tested sample 1, worked fine with KODI-HC, this is my secondary player, KODI DS doesnt support ISO 3D.

note, i'm using filters added externally, no using built in filters as these never work right for me with 3D, you must add them externally I have always found.

try external filters with MPC-HC and report back.

have you missed anything in your setup?

screen shots

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBij8k0X0X15BnOCYQzjg?e=tQh7FZ

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBij8kzey5EDosMxwLvLw?e=CEvW6J

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBij8kycP4lDTh8UgYZdg?e=ZEAwDs

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBij8k1a7fo2nDeXXjg1A?e=aQdDlD

you dont need anything else, no other softwares or apps, this normally just works with AMD no fuss.

NoTechi

5th January 2020, 23:54

make sure you are using software decoding and make sure the type of 3D in madVR is set to auto.

the 3D implementation from amd and nvidia doesn't matter here madVR doesn't support them it only supports the OS 3D API.
if madVR would support 3d vision 3d on nvidia would still work up to this day.

Madvr 3D is set to auto. What software decoding are you refering to? In Lav Video "hardware decoder to use" set to "none"? With nvidia and old driver I had D3D11 and DXVA2 (copy back) both working with 3D as far as I remember.

NoTechi

NoTechi

6th January 2020, 00:02

just tested sample 1, worked fine with KODI-HC, this is my secondary player, KODI DS doesnt support ISO 3D.

I guess it is a typo and should be mpc-hc instead of Kodi-hc right? Going to try mpc-hc with external filter now ... even though I am not that optimistic anymore. :D

Thanks for testing the Kodi sample file this gives me hope that I will get it working at some point and if I have to reinstall windows :p

NoTechi

mclingo

6th January 2020, 00:13

Have you tried .

yeah, i've been following this closely, it works very well, however I prefer to use one player for everything so converting to SDR using MADVR / KODI DS is my current preference as this player where perfect for the general user will never support MADVR, cant live without that.

mclingo

6th January 2020, 00:38

NoTechi

6th January 2020, 00:51

try external filters with MPC-HC and report back.

have you missed anything in your setup?

Well also with mpc-hc no success. Madvr info screen does not show 3D and the kodi sample iso file plays in 2D only.
All settings as in your screenshots (many thanks btw :)). Could you make a screenshot of your lav Video settings please. If mine are also the same I give up for today :P

NoTechi

mclingo

6th January 2020, 01:39

mclingo

6th January 2020, 01:44

if its still not working something this is really odd, not sure where else to go with this.

LAV settings

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBij8k4fl_OXnPgIEE_-Q?e=bdNCoP

mclingo

6th January 2020, 01:51

Here is a pic of your sample playing in MPC-HC - i put one of my 3D glasses lenses over the lens to take it, dont know if this is any use to you but i might highlight if something is missing at your end.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBij8k5GalXMZPfV5N-uQ?e=PZ6Ukd

NoTechi

6th January 2020, 02:20

Many thanks Mclingo! Will take another look after some sleep :)

NoTechi

Update:
After testing some more without success I decided to start from scratch (I double checked that my settings match mclingos settings). I am going to try windows 10 reset by keeping all files. According to Microsoft reinstall info (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4000735/windows-10-reinstall) this should get rid of all drivers and installed apps but will keep files.

Klaus1189

6th January 2020, 17:36

A bit off topic, but very nice news :)
https://news.samsung.com/us/samsung-microled-qled-8k-lifestyle-tv-lineups-ces-2020/
https://news.samsung.com/de/samsung-stellt-zur-ces-2020-sein-umfassendes-micro-led-qled-8k-und-lifestyle-tv-produktportfolio-vor

mclingo

6th January 2020, 20:50

A bit off topic, l]

indeed this is the TV we've all been waiting for, it looks like its going to be available in 4k 75 inches but it will be silly money until they can sort out the fab as each LED has to be laid down individually, I fear these will always be out of 99.99% of peoples price range.

My guess is the 75inch will be at least 10,000

NoTechi

6th January 2020, 22:23

Still no success after a fresh install to get 3D mvc working :scared:

I did a windows 10 reset (all drivers and apps deinstalled)

I freshly installed (and nothing else):
amd driver (19.12.3)
lav filter (0.74.1)
madvr (did a fresh install with latest released and updated to latest beta with default settings)
mpc-be (1.5.4)
in this order and just changed some settings for 3d playback with no success.

My settings (in German but should be self explaining):
AMD display settings (https://ibb.co/RNTsNV3)
AMD graphic settings (https://ibb.co/L9djWnn)
AMD advanced graphic settings (https://ibb.co/7b2PB9m)
LAV Video Settings (https://ibb.co/y6qQ0Fq)
LAV Video Formats (https://ibb.co/YPvbx6j)
madvr display properties (https://ibb.co/2Py6yBx)
madvr stereo 3d settings (https://ibb.co/YhQbPsc)
madvr general settings fullscreen (https://ibb.co/hWQvPDr)
madvr display modes - default no display modes listed as test (https://ibb.co/4tHJ6q2)
mpc settings - external filter (https://ibb.co/tB9mcpN)
mpc settings - external filter priority (https://ibb.co/kqhTfTF)
mpc settings - video renderer (https://ibb.co/56Lk52p)
mpc settings - fullscreen (https://ibb.co/nRmGd5b)
Windows 10 display resolution (https://ibb.co/4sWkHcM)
Windows 10 display refresh rate (https://ibb.co/WznVyWG)
madvr info playing kodi mvc iso sample (https://ibb.co/TTK3JDv)
madvr info playing mclingo sample mvc mkv (https://ibb.co/Y7wbzpz)

I hope I just overlooked some detail setting somewhere but to be honest I really run out of ideas. If someone has an idea what else I could try let me know.

Well as long as I get 3D mvc running before the new Samsung Video wall is available all is fine :p

NoTechi

Kodi 3D test clips (https://kodi.wiki/view/Samples#3D_Test_Clips)

mclingo

6th January 2020, 22:36

Hi, the 3D toggle should be off in windows, this can sometime cause it you need to let MADVR toggle it, also, coming to this conversation later have I missed that you are using two displays and also splitting processing over two graphics cards or something, can you post you full hardware chain details, it has to something simple.

NoTechi

6th January 2020, 23:15

Just unchecked the 3D (was just on to kinda force it anyhow I never had it on with my nvidia and madvr did always handle it). No difference with it unchecked so.

I don't have the second display connected since I installed the amd gpu. So my current hardware chain is pretty straight forward:
AMD RX 5700 XT --> AVR Marantz 7011 --> JVC X7900

Isn't it kinda strange that madvr is reporting:
h264, 8bit, 4.2.0 -> NV12,8bit,4.2.0 (DXVA2)

NoTechi

Edit: Oh and I deactivated the internal intel gpu within the bios so I don't have any intel drivers installed

NoTechi

6th January 2020, 23:32

OMG I found it!!!!! And I am not sure if I should tell you since this is soooooo stupid but at least I got a nice freshly installed windows now and got my 3D back!!!

So my mistake was that within mpc setup with external filters I did not set the external lav filters to "prefarable" ... in other words they never got used .... :p I have no clue why this changed in my windows setup before the fresh install but it deffinitly cost me some time and nervs :P

Sorry for poluting this thread a bit with my 3D/driver stuff ..... I am back to watching movies now ... finally :P

Many thanks mclingo and huhn for brainstorming with me :thanks:

NoTechi

mclingo

7th January 2020, 00:07

haha, done that myself plenty of times, glad its all working, thats the main thing :)

chros

7th January 2020, 15:21

My guess is the 75inch will be at least 10,000
Way more! More like 30k at least, let's have bet :)
Here's a guy who bought The Wall (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ultra-hi-end-ht-gear-20-000/3093044-samsung-wall-owners-thread-2019-a.html#post58650524) ("last year" model) 3 months ago, 146" = $400k :D

huhn

7th January 2020, 15:57

the sony 1080p microled cost 250000.

so yeah good luck.

nevcairiel

7th January 2020, 16:10

the sony 1080p microled cost 250000.

so yeah good luck.

It won't be quite that expensive anymore, the technology improved drastically, but it'll still be expensive, 5 digits for sure, but probably not 6 unless you get to the real big sizes.

huhn

7th January 2020, 16:15

not even 6 months:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaChI1WNG2M

not saying it not going to be cheaper.
that's the price of the small one (technically you can make them smaller but that would be sub 1080p)

mclingo

7th January 2020, 16:29

i'd seriously think about getting a loan and paying 10k for 75 inch as long as it was 4k as it would essentially be the last TV I would ever need to buy assuming it never breaks down...I fear we are a long way off that still. :)

chros

7th January 2020, 16:56

el Filou

7th January 2020, 19:24

as it would essentially be the last TV I would ever need to buyIt wouldn't. Displays always keep progressing (currently the next step will be covering more and more of the BT.2020 colour space), so even such a model would feel old at some point.

mclingo

7th January 2020, 20:58

this is true but I cant see a percentage bump in colour space feeling necessary at all as it would only effect a tiny amount of my current collection, i'd only replace if they then came out with a 3D MLED TV.

Asmodian

7th January 2020, 22:06

Give them 5 years though.. OLED has some time left but building a major new factory might be a bad idea. I like my OLEDs but micro LEDs looks really nice. Some amazing breakthroughs make me much more hopeful we will seem them affordable pretty soon instead of the far future.

The 48" 2020 OLED might be my last OLED. :D

huhn

7th January 2020, 23:20

the sony micro led is an oled.
https://pro.sony/s3/2019/01/17001755/4692870152.pdf

Defective pixels
The panel fitted to this unit is manufactured with high
precision technology, giving a functioning pixel ratio of at
least 99.99%. Thus a very small proportion of pixels may
be “stuck,” either always off (black), always on (red, green,
or blue), or flashing. In addition, such “stuck” pixels may
appear spontaneously over a long period of use due to the
physical characteristics of the organic light-emitting
diodes.
Such occurrences do not indicate a malfunction.

oldpainlesskodi

10th January 2020, 13:41

AMD 20.1.1 driver is out, mentions HDR washed out colours fix in the changelog, but the BT2020 issue is still present using the private API in MadVR on the RX 5700 XT. Win HDR Toggle working fine.

NoTechi

10th January 2020, 15:27

Did AMD remove support for Bluesky Fluid Motion on new cards?
I tried to activate it following this (https://bluesky23.yukishigure.com/en/bfrc/howto/FluidMotion.html) but in advanced I can just adjust brightness on my 5700 XT.
They are mentioning a "Bluesky FRC Utility" to activate it, but I cannot find it and if it is not supported directly within AMD drivers this sounds like a new potential risk to ruin my setup :P

NoTechi

oldpainlesskodi

10th January 2020, 16:09

Not sure. It wasn't there by default, but I used this utility to add it back in https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/radeonmod-tweak-utility.403389/ - available in the tweaks tab.

NoTechi

10th January 2020, 16:24

Not sure. It wasn't there by default, but I used this utility to add it back in https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/radeonmod-tweak-utility.403389/ - available in the tweaks tab.

Thanks ... are you using fluid motion with your 5700XT?

NoTechi

huhn

10th January 2020, 16:27

DXVA2 is still limited range.

oldpainlesskodi

10th January 2020, 17:48

@NoTechi - no, as I use refresh rate matching.

@Huhn - can you explain what you mean, just so I am clear? Many thanks.

mclingo

10th January 2020, 17:59

AMD 20.1.1 driver is out, mentions HDR washed out colours fix in the changelog, but the BT2020 issue is still present using the private API in MadVR on the RX 5700 XT. Win HDR Toggle working fine.

heartbreaking, when I read your first few words I got really excited, its clear we really need MADSHI to look at this, i've logged a bug but no reply as yet, still showing as "new"

oldpainlesskodi

10th January 2020, 18:32

Yeah, I guess there are 3 possibilities now at this stage.

1 - design flaw in the card
2 - AMD thought they fixed the issue
3 - the AMD API has changed.

My money is on 3, but who knows.

el Filou

10th January 2020, 19:14

Using Windows' own HDR switch correctly signals BT.2020, so it's not a design flaw in the card. And if using the same API function successfully results in signalling BT.2020 with older cards and the problem only happens with the 5700 series, then it means it's either a bug in madVR or a bug in the 5700-specific code in AMD's driver (my bet).
I've had a quick look in the AGS documentation on github, here's the struct to pass for the function to set the display mode:
https://gpuopen-librariesandsdks.github.io/ags/struct_a_g_s_display_settings.html
And here's the 'flags' parameter, which just has an option to disable local dimming: https://gpuopen-librariesandsdks.github.io/ags/amd__ags_8h.html#a6abe17185f4f06f30f1b6d26566d74a9
So it looks like you have to pass the colour space coordinates.
Either madVR doesn't pass the correct coordinates for BT.2020 only for the 5700 (I fail to see why it would do that, can be checked with a debugger maybe?), or it's an AMD bug where the 5700-specific code in the driver fails to send the BT.2020 signalling when this function is called with the corresponding coordinates.

huhn

10th January 2020, 19:40

is no secret the new API version uses a new syntax so yes they change something.
so updating is a lot of work.

i'm doing with every version a fast DXVA2 check before it test the hard to test issues if they didn't fix this very obvious major bug i just don't waste my time on it anymore.

DXVA2 outputs limited range madVR doesn't fall for that (it most likely ask for limited).

el Filou

10th January 2020, 20:43

Where's the new syntax? The official changelog doesn't mention anything https://github.com/GPUOpen-LibrariesAndSDKs/AGS_SDK/blob/master/CHANGELOG.md The documentation which I linked to says they just added new elements to the enum over time as support for new HDR modes was added, but doesn't say anything about different syntaxes or functions. Do you mean AMD is as bad at documentation as they are at coding drivers? :D ;)

Oh well I don't care much, it was just to point to a possible troubleshooting path.

huhn

10th January 2020, 20:52

Breaking API change for DX11 extensions
You now call agsDriverExtensionsDX11_CreateDevice() at creation time to access any DX11 AMD extensions

https://github.com/GPUOpen-LibrariesAndSDKs/AGS_SDK/releases/tag/v5.1.1

DMU

10th January 2020, 21:50

Guys, I described everything here (https://github.com/GPUOpen-LibrariesAndSDKs/AGS_SDK/issues/33).
Tested using HDFury.

mclingo

10th January 2020, 21:57

Guys, I described everything here (https://github.com/GPUOpen-LibrariesAndSDKs/AGS_SDK/issues/33).
Tested using HDFury.

DMU, i also passed that info onto MADSHI on the bug report I created, I'm sure MADSHI will know exactly what it is when he has time to look at it.

http://bugs.madshi.net/view.php?id=630

Feel free to add any comments everyone, pretty sure i've probably explained this really poorly when I logged it.

DMU

10th January 2020, 22:10

Madshi has everything to fix this issue if AMD does not solve it. There is a software solution. We just need to be patient.

oldpainlesskodi

10th January 2020, 22:52

Guess we just have to sit on our hands then until Madshi is ready to surface again.

Slightly impatiently waiting lol......

huhn

10th January 2020, 23:17

so where did you test NAVI because NAVI is the only GPU with this issue?

el Filou

10th January 2020, 23:20

https://github.com/GPUOpen-LibrariesAndSDKs/AGS_SDK/releases/tag/v5.1.1
- This change dates back to more than two years. It would have broken all cards, not just 5700 (which obviously didn't even exist)
- The function for switching display to HDR is under category 'General API functions', not DirectX Extensions : https://gpuopen-librariesandsdks.github.io/ags/modules.html

huhn

10th January 2020, 23:32

seriously... no if a game ships with AGS 5.0.6 and it is not updated it stays with that version and it will use code from this version.

do you really think they can force every developer to update AGS?
the version madVR uses is 5.0.6 and you still get an image so it still works.

i mean when nothing changed then it has to work so feel free to up date AGS in madVR but you will not get an image.

el Filou

11th January 2020, 02:05

Well that's perfect as I wasn't talking about updating anything! In fact I think it's just a bug in AMD's driver.

huhn

11th January 2020, 02:08

works with POLARIS doesn't work with NAVI.
yes can't agree more.

mclingo

11th January 2020, 03:00

ive been contacted by someone on the KODI forum who tells me the new driver fixed this issue for them, I cant see how it could have given what we know, however, I've asked them to post it here so we can find out what kit they have etc in case there is something we all have in common other than an AMD card that he doesnt have.

oldpainlesskodi

11th January 2020, 09:38

At this stage any info is welcome. Navi bug, Madvr issue - who knows.

DMU

11th January 2020, 10:46

I would say that this is a feature of AMD private API (AGS) and their drivers. Especially they did it or made a mistake, only AMD can answer.

oldpainlesskodi

11th January 2020, 11:16

Could be, but I don't know why the WIN HDR toggle displays everything correctly vs the MadVR API.

mclingo

11th January 2020, 11:35

MADSHI should really have a windows API HDR switch as a fall back for these kind of situations, it used to have one but doesnt work, I think we've already discussed that, I wonder why it didnt work?

DMU

11th January 2020, 11:44

@oldpainlesskodi
Perhaps because Windows communicates directly with the AMD driver kernel.

@mclingo
It works now.
The idea is to activate the BT.2020 flag with WinAPI, and send the correct metadata to the TV using AMD private API (AGS).

oldpainlesskodi

11th January 2020, 11:46

@ DMU - makes sense.

mclingo

11th January 2020, 11:59

has anyone tried applying alexkrals shader fix to DSplayer, it works perfectly with MPC-hc player and can be toggled off and on easily, this would be a decent workaround if we could also set a rule for its use only with HDR movies, i had a go but just got totally lost, there are instructions but i just couldnt get it to work, the process seemed simply enoough but it just didnt work for me.

DMU

11th January 2020, 12:48

@mclingo
Using a shader is not a good idea. Since it converts the DCI-P3 color space to the BT.709. It’s better to add an executable file to the HDR madVR profile that will activate the BT.2020 color space on TV and set the most common metadata for movies. For example, MDL = 1000, etc. I can do this if you want.

oldpainlesskodi

11th January 2020, 12:58

"I can do this if you want"?

Do you have a reliable way of doing that?

mclingo

11th January 2020, 14:56

mine is a first gen HDR oled, to be honest the BT2020 coverage is pretty low anyway so converting to BT.709, I probably wont be able to see any difference. However, I think we'd probably all like to have a go at your proposed workaround if its simple for you to do, dont want you spending hours on something that might not work or few people will use.

DMU

11th January 2020, 18:55

Sorry guys. Unfortunately, this does not work with madVR profiles.

mclingo

11th January 2020, 19:13

can you post a link to the exe, we can trigger it from a key shortcut while KODI is open, for me this is preferable to using windows HDR API

cheers

oldpainlesskodi

11th January 2020, 19:31

@ DMU - thanks for looking into it. I've tried all the auto HDR exe's, and it's hit and miss. Like I said, thanks for looking.

mclingo

11th January 2020, 19:37

i think what he is talking about is not a HDR toggle hopefully, essentially we'd setup our player as normal with MADVR outputting HDR meta data to TV but this executable forces the the output to BT2020, or have i totally misread that from DMU?

The reason this is better is that we can still use tonemapping stuff if we are using the AMD API

DMU

11th January 2020, 20:23

can you post a link to the exe, we can trigger it from a key shortcut while KODI is open, for me this is preferable to using windows HDR API

cheers

Link (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1t6xOcNtaN70UuU38YktcHeun2LAkBhIz).

i think what he is talking about is not a HDR toggle hopefully, essentially we'd setup our player as normal with MADVR outputting HDR meta data to TV but this executable forces the the output to BT2020, or have i totally misread that from DMU?

The reason this is better is that we can still use tonemapping stuff if we are using the AMD API

The result (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1G73YfJs6bY5XeRCVybX_mbY150iMTUNq) of the executable file.

mclingo

11th January 2020, 20:36

hi when i run it reports code execution cannot proceed because - amd_ags_x64.dll was not found

huhn

11th January 2020, 21:05

it's in the same compressed folder.

just decompress it and run it without moving the files.

mclingo

11th January 2020, 21:43

ok, that works great but its a bit janky as KODI DS loses focus if I run it with KODI open, any chance you could end the command prompt after it siwtches to HDR, I can simply run it again when I close KODI to change it back to SDR, even better split it into two exe's, HDR on and HDR off, then I can auto run HDR with my KODI close command. other than HDR turning on and off twice it works as well as normal - great work !

DMU

11th January 2020, 21:56

even better split it into two exe's, HDR on and HDR off
No problem.
Link (https://drive.google.com/open?id=12UBbLcIA31efiApUcWiwAXLUubpTWYds).

mclingo

11th January 2020, 22:08

marvelous, thanks very much :):):)

mclingo

11th January 2020, 22:37

Hi, almost there, that works very well for HDR off, I just close KODI and it turns HDR off at the same time. However when I load HDR_on its not running in the background properly, KODI task switches away from KODI to a black screen, not sure the its fully running in the background or I have some odditty with my PC.

mclingo

11th January 2020, 23:07

full screen window in KODI DS fixes that, however I cant use that as I get slight playback glitches with it on, this started with WIN 10 1809.

i'll go back to tone map to SDR for now I think, thanks very much indeed for the time you spent on this though.

oldpainlesskodi

12th January 2020, 11:36

@DMU - thanks for your effort and trying, it's appreciated.

chros

12th January 2020, 14:03

It’s better to add an executable file to the HDR madVR profile that will activate the BT.2020 color space on TV and set the most common metadata for movies. For example, MDL = 1000, etc. I can do this if you want.

Link (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1t6xOcNtaN70UuU38YktcHeun2LAkBhIz).

Be aware that (at least) LG responds differently to different hdr metadata (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibration/2962814-2018-lg-oled-calibration-user-settings-no-price-talk-120.html#post58739264) values.
At least 2018 models works best with MDL and maxCLL 700 and setting this value in madvr with hdr output and pixelshader tonemapping. In 2019 models the peak can be set via a util but defaulting to 700 as well, other brands need to be tested.

mclingo

17th January 2020, 20:15

madshi has resurfaced on the tone mapping thread, have a look at this response to a query, do you think this could help with the 5700 BT2020 issue?

question :

We wanted to test the 112b beta on a JVC Z1 laser beamer with AMD Fluid Motion frame interpolation.

Unfortunately the Blusky Frame Converter or the ne AMD driver does not support BT.2020 anymore. So madvr shows REC.709. Is there a way to force madvr to recognize BT.2020 ?

answer:

You can use file name tagging like "movie [hdr=on, matrix=2020, primaries=2020].mkv", if that helps?

el Filou

17th January 2020, 21:09

I think that's a workaround for when madVR can't detect the correct input metadata (in this case because an intermediate filter strips/changes it).
In the case of the AMD issue, madVR is well aware of the correct input metadata but it's the output to the display that is incorrectly flagged.

mclingo

17th January 2020, 21:35

thanks for the explanation....lol, is my desperation to get this fixed showing :)

el Filou

17th January 2020, 23:41

huhn

18th January 2020, 00:27

i called them "doesn't sound important" was pretty much the answer.

if you do such a thing do it technically don't make screenshots.

beware they are getting flooded right now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pboDbxogSw4
wrong meta data is nothing compared to a crashing driver.

BTW: https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/release-notes/rn-rad-win-20-1-1
Some Radeon RX 5700 series graphics users may intermittently experience a black screen while gaming or on desktop. A potential temporary workaround is disabling hardware acceleration in applications running in the background such as web browsers or Discord.

DMU

18th January 2020, 09:15

I've seen you've posted on AMD forums about this, but have you or DMU tried using this form: https://www.amd.com/en/support/contact-email-form to file an official bug report?
NVIDIA has an official form to report bugs, but this is the closest thing I've found on AMD's site.

I am not sure this is a issue. Perhaps they (AMD) believe that they are doing everything right. I asked them a question here (https://github.com/GPUOpen-LibrariesAndSDKs/AGS_SDK/issues/33), but they are silent.
I am confused by the fact that the Polaris GPU's (RX series) send the correct flag on TV.
huhn is right, they now have a lot of reports from gamers.

mclingo

18th January 2020, 21:40

ive logged two faults with AMD, a second time only because i didnt hear anything, still silence. I've logged it a couple of times on their forum as well.

claw

18th January 2020, 23:44

I found that the current Nvidia 441.87 DCH driver for Windows 10 seems to have possible performance issues compared to earlier versions when running MadVR Tone mapping with high settings.

I was using the 436.48 Windows 7/8 driver with good render times in MadVR of 28-30 ms with a RTX 2080 Super. This was with my old Windows 8.1 build.

I upgraded my PC with new Z390 motherboard, CPU, SSD, and DDR4 memory and installed Windows 10 Pro. I let GeForce Experience install the current 441.87 driver. My MadVR render times shot up to 40 ms and higher resulting in stutter due to dropped and repeated frames.

Reinstalled Windows 10 and this time manually downloaded and installed the 436.48 DCH driver. MadVR render times are now 30-32 ms instead of 40+. GPU utilization also dropped from 95% to 88%.

WuNgUn

18th January 2020, 23:46

Interesting.... Thanks for the feedback.

ryrynz

19th January 2020, 01:09

Probably due to power profile and not the actual driver performance.

VBB

19th January 2020, 01:09

@claw - In both cases, did you make sure to switch the Nvidia Performance option from "Optimal" to "Adaptive"?

LOL @ryrynz just beat me to it by a few seconds :D

claw

19th January 2020, 09:01

@claw - In both cases, did you make sure to switch the Nvidia Performance option from "Optimal" to "Adaptive"?

LOL @ryrynz just beat me to it by a few seconds :D

No, I did not. I did not know this was recommended. I will check on this tomorrow.

mclingo

21st January 2020, 02:26

I've tried a different workaround for HDR, I'm finding I much prefer the tone mapped with HDR rather than to SDR, so i've calibrated one of my presets to correct the colour issues, essentially I found that wacking up the saturation and adding a little red got my movies looking normal again, obviously this is a super dirty workaround but I much prefer it to using crappy windows HDR without tone mapping or tone mapping to SDR.

pretty happy with the results.

el Filou

21st January 2020, 13:30

So you mean if you enable HDR via Windows, madVR can't tone map and output HDR? What happens if you check the output HDR box while you already enabled HDR in Windows, madVR tries to change the display mode again via the private API?

mclingo

21st January 2020, 15:32

Hi, no I dont think it works llike that, thats the first thing i tried, you just get a washed out image like MADVR is sending SDR instead of HDR. I'll try it again with 113 in case anything has changed,

mclingo

21st January 2020, 15:36

it could be user error but this works now as long as I still use output as HDR, thats great as I dont need a workround now as I can turn on HDR from a shortcut from my remote.

oldpainlesskodi

21st January 2020, 15:47

Can I ask how you do that?

mclingo

21st January 2020, 15:49

which bit mate, tooggling HDR/OFF on or MADVR setup?

oldpainlesskodi

21st January 2020, 16:31

Toggling HDR

mclingo

21st January 2020, 17:18

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBij8B8NGNOQYG3-ANvQg?e=aswgvS - here is a copy of the file I use, there are lots of ways to do this, look back a few pages.

I use autohotkey to map this exe to a key on my remote so I can START HDR at any time while KODI DS is open, I can then just run it again to turn it off If I want to watch an SDR movie.

oldpainlesskodi

21st January 2020, 17:31

Ah, autohotkey - got it, many thanks.

takenori

22nd January 2020, 04:13

is it normal when playing video with laptop with igpu and nvidia, for both to works?
because i cant seem to get the nvidia gpu to handle madvr, its always fall to igpu while nvidia only handle mpc (with lavfilter directx 11 selected)
both running about 40-50% at taskmanager.

mclingo

22nd January 2020, 14:40

Ah, autohotkey - got it, many thanks.

Have you tried 113 tone mapping yet, its vastly improved my HDR PQ, contrast recovery works incredibly well for me - i'm using HILL STONG, HHDR has always looked a bit meh on my TV but no it looks great, its not super bright as I only have 400 nits to play with but contrast recovery really improves the dynamics making everything pop.

oldpainlesskodi

22nd January 2020, 16:37

No not yet, but will take a look

mclingo

22nd January 2020, 17:11

subjective obviously but I definately see a really nice boost in dynamics, i'll also using highlight recovery high, you can really see this working in Harry Potter goblet of fire where his mum and dad appear from valdamorts wand during the fight at the end, without this all I see is white blobs with very little facial detail, different here is striking - but my TV's own tone mapping might just be pants in general being GEN 1.0 4k HDR OLED

oldpainlesskodi

22nd January 2020, 18:21

Thanks for the insight, but, on my set up, the Win HDR toggle still wins hands down.

Could be that my set has a nits of 1000, but who knows lol.

mclingo

23rd January 2020, 01:41

still no HDR fix in 20.1.3, however HDR being too light or two dark in games is a knwn issue now so they may spot this issue when fixing that, fingers crossed.

Fixed Issues
An intermittent black screen or loss of display may occur when performing parallel actions such as web browsing, gaming or watching video.
A limited number of games such as Nioh™, Dragon Quest Builders 2™, WWE™2K20, Dead or Alive 6™ and Atelier Ryza™ may crash or fail to launch.
Wolfenstein™ 2: The New Colossus is not detected in Radeon Software games manager.
Text overflow in some UI boxes or toast messages may be experienced in some language localizations.
Fan Tuning may change back to the default state when switching between available GPUs.
Copy text options are not available in the display specs table for Radeon Software.
An intermittent black screen or loss of display may occur when the system is left idle at desktop.
Factory Reset install may keep previously configured Radeon Software game profiles. This can cause mismatch between global graphics settings and per profile settings.
Known Issues
Grand Theft Auto™ 5 may experience a system hang or black screen at launch, when opening Radeon Overlay while in game, or after performing a task switch while in game.
Audio may intermittently be missing from Radeon ReLive recordings near the end of recorded clips.
Integer Scaling may cause some video content to show flicker when the display resolution is set to less than native resolution.
Multiple games may have very dark or very bright graphics in game when HDR is enabled in Windows®.
Radeon Anti-Lag enable and disable beep notifications may be played in error when individually pressing keys assigned to the hotkey.
The Radeon Software Overlay hotkey notification may sometimes be displayed during video playback in web browsers or launching some video player applications.
Integer Scaling option is not showing up or available on some Windows®7 system configurations.
Radeon Software may open with an inconsistent size or may not keep its previously set size when opened.
Some Vulkan® gaming applications may crash when performing a task switch with Radeon Image Sharpening enabled.
Some Radeon RX 5700 series graphics users may intermittently experience a black screen while gaming or on desktop. A potential temporary workaround is disabling hardware acceleration in applications running in the background such as web browsers or Discord.

senzaparole

23rd January 2020, 14:07

Hello guys.
Waiting for an update of the drivers of the RX 5700 XT how can I solve the problem of faded colors?
I use MPC + madVR to play HDR movies and I'm not satisfied with the colors. They are slightly washed out colors.
Do I have to wait for an update of the drivers of the RX 5700 XT or can I do something to improve the colors? I read about a file.exe to install, but I didn't understand how to use it.

mclingo

23rd January 2020, 14:51

Hi, yes this is a known issue and has been discussed in detail. The easiest woraround is to simply turn HDR on before loading your movie player, then just use MADVR as usual.

However you can toggle it on and off while the video app is loaded, just not while the movie is running, I've set a shortcut on my remote to quickly turn it off and on when required. Here is a quick tool to toggle HDR in windows on and OFF to make this easier foe you - credit for this goes to DMU i think.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBij8B8NGNOQYG3-ANvQg?e=jqJ5BZ

senzaparole

25th January 2020, 18:44

thanks for the advice.
So I have to set in madVR's HDR "let madVR decide" so madVR doesn't activate HDR.
Do I only activate Windows HDR?

In the video card: color depth 10bit and RGB 4: 4: 4: Pixel Format PC standard (Full RGB)

In madVR:
"PC levels 0-255"
"the native disply bitdepth is 10 bit"

in LG OLED B9 65: high black level

in LAV filter: RGB PC (0-255)

mclingo

25th January 2020, 21:17

this is what i thought, no actually, you setup MADVR as normal with tone mapping and output in HDR format etc and then just turn on windows HDR before you play the movie, when you play the movie HDR turns off, then on, then off and on again which is a little disconcerting but it works !

dont forget to use the latest HDR test build though, you extract it and copy straight into the MADVR folder, no install required.

http://madshi.net/madVRhdrMeasure113.zip

Your other settings are identical to mine, there are different ways of getting the black level but using 444full RGB is the better option.

mclingo

26th January 2020, 14:36

oldpainlesskodi

26th January 2020, 15:00

All fine here.

mclingo

26th January 2020, 15:07

found the issue, this card doesnt like my DP to HDMI converter which is odd as my RX580 had no issues with it, both my recent cards had only one HDMI connect for some utterly stupid reason which forced me to buy this. luckily however I only need one fully working port as my other port is used for a dummy plug for remote access. It is a bug though as like i say it worked fine with my RX580 but at least i'm back to fully working now.

senzaparole

26th January 2020, 17:30

just found another issue with my RX5700, hope its just something that got messed up with the many different drivers ive installed recently. My 2160p desktop is locked at 2160p60hz 4:2:0 8 bit, there are littlerally no other options. If I drop to 1080p the options are there again, all the usual ones, however I cant select 10 or 12 bit with any options at all in 1080p or 2160p, something is very broken.

I'll do a driver wipe and see if that fixes, however my previous RX580 had no limitations at all beyond the physical limitation of 2160p 4:4:4 10 bit 30hz

Hi mclingo, no problem too.
As for the frequency, all the films are at about 24 hz, so the higher resolutions are useless.

I would like to summarize your advice because I am not an expert and English is not my native language.
I have an LG B9 65 "OLED TV, a PC with RX 5700 XT and a Denon X3500H.

1. extract the contents of the "madVRhdrMeasure113" folder and copy and paste it into the madVR installation folder in C: without starting any installation.

2. download the file "HDR_TOGGLE.exe" to the desktop

3. I don't understand how I should set the HDR setting in madVR: let madVR decide, passtrough HDR to display, tone map HDR using pixel shaders. Which one do I select?

4. i impose the video card: 10 bit color depth and 4: 4: 4 RGB: standard pixel format PC (full RGB).
I impose in madVR: "PC Levels 0-255" "native bit depth display" 10 bits.
I impose in LG OLED B9 65: black level: HIGH.
I impose in the video LAV filter: PC RGB (0-255) and D3D11.

5. all other madVR settings are the Asmodian HIGH settings.

6. io uso Mediaportal e MPC-HC. Before playing a video i click on the HDR_TOGGLE.exe to activate the Windows HDR.

7. during HDR video playback it turns off, then on, then off and on again. Everything automatically. And I will see everything perfect.

Is this really so?

mclingo

26th January 2020, 21:20

[QUOTE=senzaparole;o?[/QUOTE]

Hi,

1 and 2 are correct

3. your c9 has quite high nits and decent tone mapping so you dont really need to use tone mapping in MADVR, you could maybe have a play with that at some point once you do a bit more reading up on how it works.

For now just choose passthru to display and make sure send meta data is ticked.

4. is correct

5. ok

6. I dont like media portal and dont use it, I cant speak for that but it should work yes. Have you had a look at KODI DS, it loads better IMHO

7. Yes, but thats only a description of what you see happen, you dont actually have to turn it off and on yourself several times.

To play a movie:

A] click the toggle app to turn HDR on
B] load media portal
C] play the movie.

Note, if you map the toggle to a shortcut key using something like AUTOHOTKEY you can turn HDR on and off at will so you dont have to come out of media portal to turn it on, this also means you can turn it on after you start media portal if like me you just load it up sometimes and have a browser without knowing exactly what you are going to watch.

Remember, to watch an SDR movie you have to toggle it off again and this is only for AMD users, not NVIDIA.

Hope this helps :)

senzaparole

26th January 2020, 23:11

7. Yes, but thats only a description of what you see happen, you dont actually have to turn it off and on yourself several times.

Yes, I understand, point 7., everything works automatically without the need for my intervention

Hi Mclingo you are very useful and thank you very much. I had also thought of selling the RX 5700 XT. But now I'm happy to have found this solution.
As soon as I find some free time I try this solution.

In fact, in the past I had already tried to enable Windows HDR and simultaneously set the madVR "tone map HDR using pixel shaders" (target peak nits: 700 and video output in HDR format enabled). I only tried once but the results seemed excellent with both HDR enabled. In another forum they told me that I absolutely didn't have to enable Windows HDR and madVR HDR at the same time and I gave up testing.

Instead I have to study how to enable a button on the remote control of the Windows Media Center to conveniently activate the HDR_TOGGLE.exe.

As for the playback of videos in SDR, Windows HDR is always disabled! MadVR HDR (video output in HDR format) remains enabled.

I'll update you on the results. Thanks again.