BeLight 0.22 beta 8 released

[marcellus]

Hi Kurtnoise, many thanks for your program!

Small problem in current version: when I choose an .eq file to feed the shibatch equalizer the path is not within quotes, so the besweet exits at once if I start encoding. If I manually put the quotes around the path the problem is solved. One thing more (maybe related to this): if I choose an .eq file then at the next session BeLight asks at every move the location of that file.

Bye and thanks again.

[Kurtnoise]

Originally posted by marcellus
Small problem in current version: when I choose an .eq file to feed the shibatch equalizer the path is not within quotes, so the besweet exits at once if I start encoding. If I manually put the quotes around the path the problem is solved. One thing more (maybe related to this): if I choose an .eq file then at the next session BeLight asks at every move the location of that file.

:scared: Ok...I'll fix it.

[Kurtnoise]

For the users who want to test new things. :) I've made 0.21 beta 1 (http://atlas2.tgv.net/~media-video/forum2/download.php?id=1610). But be carefull : it's only for testing. There are always some bugs which aren't resolved.

changelog :
- Added : mp3 tab completely revisited. Please read carefully explanations below.
- Now BeLight enables to ask you if you want overwrite the output file (if you have a file having the same name as your output) or not.
- Some bugs fix.

BTW, I hope to fix all bugs before Xmas. ;)



So, some explanations about the new mp3 tab :

Some functions under BeSweetGUI are outdated. This is the case for MP3 part. We know all that BeSweet uses one of the best mp3 encoder more exactly LAME. But some people as Gabriel Bouvigne by example, one of the LAME developpers, has suggested me to involve the mp3 part to facilitate and enhance comprehension for users. That's why I follow his recommandations and some new things are appeared :

http://atlas2.tgv.net/~media-video/forum2/files/mp3_tab.gif

With the latest LAME releases (3.95.xx and sup), the developpers want to simplify as much as possible the using of this encoder. That's why, now we can have the choice between "Target Bitrate" and "Target Quality". This is the most important thing to know actually.
The "Target Bitrate" refers to ABR/CBR Mode. I hope everybody know what is it. So, as soon as you choose it, you can move the Bitrate slider to fix a target following your bitrate. The range is very large as you can see. By default, the bitrate is 128 kbps.
To access at CBR Mode, you must check the "Restrict Encoder to Constant Bitrate" case. In this way, you force LAME to have a constant bitrate. In other word, you can't change the bitrate. If you want to create some encode with this Mode, you must know the bitrate will be restrict to 128 kbps.

Now the second choice : "Target Quality". This Mode is equivalent to the famous VBR Mode. So, if you check this, you can choose a certain quality level (between 10 and 100). If you are used to transcode your files into Ogg Vorbis with the Q-Mode, you know it's the same idea. I think it's more easier to understand a level quality than to choose a bitrate level.
One important thing you must to know : more this quality level is low, worse the result final is. A good point could be to choose between 50-80. It's more safer. By default, it's a value of 80 which is taken. For people who know LAME command, this quality level corresponds to -V 2.
With this "Target Quality", we can have also the choice between the Fast Variable Bitrate Mode and the Standard Mode. By default, this is Standard Mode which is chosen. For information, this Mode refers to --vbr-old LAME command whereas Fast Mode is --vbr-new.

The last part concerns the possibility to active the Mono Encoding. The "Other Settings" is available but *only* for advanced users. In the most cases, the best for you is to play with "Target Bitrate" or "Target Quality".

Due to the fact BeSweet doesn't recognize some single LAME commands, I was forced to use some old arguments.That's why I put here a table to have some equivalences. I hope this help you.


Quality = 10 | -V 9 | 64 kbps |
Quality = 20 | -V 8 | 80 kbps |
Quality = 30 | -V 7 | 96 kbps |
Quality = 40 | -V 6 | 112 kbps |
Quality = 50 | -V 5 | 128 kbps |
Quality = 60 | -V 4 | 166 kbps | --(alt)-preset medium
Quality = 70 | -V 3 | 176 kbps |
Quality = 80 | -V 2 | 192 kbps | --(alt)-preset standard
Quality = 90 | -V 1 | 224 kbps |
Quality = 100 | -V 0 | 256 kbps | --(alt)-preset extreme

If people or LAME developpers want to add something, don't hesitate. :)

[Gabriel_Bouvigne]

To access at CBR Mode, you must check the "Restrict Encoder to Constant Bitrate" case. In this way, you force LAME to have a constant bitrate. In other word, you can't change the bitrate. If you want to create some encode with this Mode, you must know the bitrate will be restrict to 128 kbps.
Why restricting to 128kbps?
My idea was to restrict it on allowable cbr bitrates, but still allow all of them.
On the user interface, this would translate to only beeing able to set the bitrate slider on the vertical marks locations when using cbr.
This means that ideally you should have one vertical mark per allowed cbr bitrate. Here, that would mean changing "176" to "192".

I would also try to stretch the bitrate slider differently, in order to have the distances beeing roughly translatable to bitrate differences: distance between 64 and 128 would be equal to the one between 128 and 192.

(I understand that those two points might be not so easy to implement in a real UI).

Last thing, I think that perhaps there could be some additionnal information on both side as sliders; "smaller files" and "higher quality"

[Gabriel_Bouvigne]

I tryed the gui, and have additionnal comments:

*The bitrate slider moving along with the vbr one is an interesting idea. I originally only though of aligning the slider bars, not moving the slider itself.

*In abr, it would be nice to have the slider beeing free to move anywhere on the scale, not only on vertical marks.

*having a 160 mark instead of the 166 and 176 ones would perhaps be nice.

Now, the "other settings" box:

*"experimental psy tunings" can be removed, as this was previously enabling --nspsytune, which is now enabled by default.

*references to Gpsycho could be renamed to "psychoacoustic model" or "psy model" or "model", as Gpsycho is not the default model anymore.

*of course I do not like seeing those options. To me the only ones that should be kept would be the lowpass and sampling freq ones. Bit-swapping could be interesting only if you are using stdin or raw files as input. If you are using wav files as input, this option is useless.

[Kurtnoise]

Hi Gabriel, ;)

Originally posted by Gabriel_Bouvigne
Why restricting to 128kbps?
My idea was to restrict it on allowable cbr bitrates, but still allow all of them.
Yeah I thought the same thing but when I tested --abr xxx --cbr command under Lame 3.96.1, I noticed the bitrate was still at 128 kbps. :confused: That's why I fixed it on 128 kbps. But I can change it easily.

Originally posted by Gabriel_Bouvigne
I would also try to stretch the bitrate slider differently, in order to have the distances beeing roughly translatable to bitrate differences: distance between 64 and 128 would be equal to the one between 128 and 192.
I can try but it's not easy..

Originally posted by Gabriel_Bouvigne
Last thing, I think that perhaps there could be some additionnal information on both side as sliders; "smaller files" and "higher quality"
mmmh, ok.

[Kurtnoise]

Originally posted by Gabriel_Bouvigne
*The bitrate slider moving along with the vbr one is an interesting idea. I originally only though of aligning the slider bars, not moving the slider itself.
;)

Originally posted by Gabriel_Bouvigne
*In abr, it would be nice to have the slider beeing free to move anywhere on the scale, not only on vertical marks.
Ok...I can try to implement that.

Originally posted by Gabriel_Bouvigne
*having a 160 mark instead of the 166 and 176 ones would perhaps be nice.
aah, yes.

Originally posted by Gabriel_Bouvigne
*"experimental psy tunings" can be removed, as this was previously enabling --nspsytune, which is now enabled by default.
Well...ok I can removed it.

Originally posted by Gabriel_Bouvigne
*references to Gpsycho could be renamed to "psychoacoustic model" or "psy model" or "model", as Gpsycho is not the default model anymore.
ok..thanks to point me out.

Originally posted by Gabriel_Bouvigne
*of course I do not like seeing those options. To me the only ones that should be kept would be the lowpass and sampling freq ones. Bit-swapping could be interesting only if you are using stdin or raw files as input. If you are using wav files as input, this option is useless.
Yes, me too...but on some sources ATH could be interesting. But I said these "other settings" it's only for advanced users.

[Gabriel_Bouvigne]

Yeah I thought the same thing but when I tested --abr xxx --cbr command under Lame 3.96.1, I noticed the bitrate was still at 128 kbps.
Yes, I just tryed, same result. This is indeed a bug

[Brother John]

Another suggestion:
Everyone who uses Lame efficiently nowadays is using one of the presets. I know presets probably will disappear in Lame 4.0, so introducing the quality slider right now is a good idea.

However, people are not used to it. That’s why I’d love an additional label saying »equals preset standard« etc. when the slider is moved to a »preset position«.

I’m sure this could prevent a lot of confusion.

[Kurtnoise]

Originally posted by Brother John
Another suggestion:
Everyone who uses Lame efficiently nowadays is using one of the presets. I know presets probably will disappear in Lame 4.0, so introducing the quality slider right now is a good idea.

However, people are not used to it. That’s why I’d love an additional label saying »equals preset standard« etc. when the slider is moved to a »preset position«.

I’m sure this could prevent a lot of confusion.
Of course I can...:) A label or a hint ??

Maybe into a label will overload the tab. Into a hint seems to be a good thing. What do you think ??

[Gabriel_Bouvigne]

I'd vote for the hint if users want to be informed of matching presets names.

[Kurtnoise]

Yes, I put some info into the hints. I think it's the more clearly. Tell me if it's ok ;)...

So, I made a new beta : 0.21 beta 2 (http://atlas2.tgv.net/~media-video/forum2/download.php?id=1612).

changelog:
- Improvements concerning the mp3 tab, as Gabriel asked.
- Bug correction for the overwrite (the last beta bOrked with this).
- Quick update of the doc concerning the new mp3 part. Read 1st before to use it.

That's all...:)

[SiXXGuNNZ]

is it possible to have mp3 options like cdex uses? if not, that's cool, I still love this new gui :D

[Kurtnoise]

Originally posted by SiXXGuNNZ
is it possible to have mp3 options like cdex uses?
Nope...If I managed the new mp3 tab with these betas, it's not to change once again.

BTW, It seems that the link for this last beta is temporary dead. :( If someone can host it, contact me by MP or here...

[Brother John]

I'd have voted for the label, but that may be not wanting to let go of the presets. So I'll be content having a preset hint. :)
Unfortunately both links are not working at the moment, so I can't test beta2 right now.

[Kurtnoise]

Try once again...:rolleyes:

[Bluedan]

Originally posted by Kurtnoise13
Maybe your plugin is outdated...


Bingo. But strange indeed, that the plug-in packed with winamp is THAT ...retarded.
thx. :cool:

You're damn fast, testing 0.21 beta 2 now, hope your X-Mas-evening was fun so far! Hoho...

[Brother John]

Hi, Kurtnoise13.

Merry Christmas!
While playing around with BeLight 0.21 beta 2 I found a bunch of issues. Please check if it's bugs or features or me doing something wrong.

On startup, when input/output files already had been selected, logfile name is reduced to its file extension. Also when changing encoder tabs, output file name gets reduced to its file extension.
When disabling azid's dynamic compression and then checking any other option, "-c" reappears in the command string, but the GUI checkbox stays unchecked.
Boost: For DSPguru's algorithm "/l=0.95" is not written to command string. Is this intentional?
When switching from a different language back to English, the "recommanded" typo on Vorbis tab still exists.
For dialog normalization reduction "-n" is written to command string, which doesn't enable DNR. The switch needs a nonzero number as an argument: "-n 1" or "-n1". It might work nonetheless when using hybridgain or dynamic compression "-c" because those functions enable DNR automatically for 5.1 downmixes.
Note: Should you consider implementing rear channel filtering into BeLight at some time, it works the same. "-f 1" or "-f1" are needed to enable the function properly.
AAC: When switching from vbr to cbr, "-vbr_..." remains in the command string in addition to "-cbr".
When AAC tab was selected before closing BeLight, on startup no bsn-section is written to command string.
AAC: When switching from Stereo to 5.1 (or vice versa) every checkbox on the tab gets unchecked. The command string is emptied accordingly.
When "Profiles" checkbox is not checked and you chose a vbr preset or cbr bitrate, "-aacprofile_he" is always added to command string.
When mp3 tab is selected on startup, an empty lame section "-lame( )" appears in the command string.
MP2: When you switch encoder engine to MP2enc and then check anything on that tab, command string goes back to "-toolame(...)".
MP2: When you choose a different "Encoding Mode" than "Joint Stereo" and then check anything else on the tab, command string changes back to "-m j".
MP2: Is it ok that "Total bitrate" and "VBR mode" can be selected together? I thought the -b switch was only for cbr.

Things related to "LFE to LR" and "Output mode" on Advanced settings tab.
In 5.1 mode both options cannot be checked. Imo disabling the checkboxes completely would be clearer.
When you switch from Stereo to 5.1 mode, both options are removed from command string but not unchecked unless you click on them.
When switching from Stereo to 5.1 on one encoder tab, then changing to another encoder tab where Stereo is selected (or no 5.1 possible), both options stay disabled. You have to go back to the tab where you switched to 5.1 channels and switch back to Stereo there. Even switching to 5.1 and back to Stereo on a different tab does not enable the two options.
When switching from 5.1 back to Stereo on Vorbis tab, both options get enabled and checked in the GUI again but no change to the command string occurs.
In 5.1 mode when both options are disabled, clicking on "LFE to LR" does not change the GUI but puts "-s" into the command string and deletes "-L" from it. When clicking on "Output mode" it's the other way round.
When "LFE to LR" is unchecked and "Output mode" checked, unchecking "Output mode" removes "-s" but adds "-L" to command string.
When selecting 5.1 output on WAV/PCM tab, you can still check both options.
When both options are unchecked, checking "LFE to LR" adds both "-L" and "-s" to command string.All this makes me believe the on/off automatic for the two functions might need some fine tuning.


Suggestions
Boost: On the German Doom9 forum LigH suggested (http://forum.gleitz.info/showpost.php?p=41321&postcount=2) for his LigH algorithm a boost factor of 3 and for DSPguru's algorithm a boost factor of 4 as appropriate and safe settings. Maybe change BeLight's values accordingly?
When BeSweet.exe is not there in BeLight's directory the "Start" button simply does nothing. A little note on the reason for the error would be nice.


Lame question: (Gabriel, you might know best)
Is a lame command line of "-m j -v --vbr-old -V 2" equivalent to "--preset standard"? At least that is BeLight's command line for the quality slider's "preset standard" position (similar for the other presets). The answer is especially important for Lame 3.90 because that's the version shipping with latest BeSweet 1.5b29.

Before I forget: Kurtnoise13, could you provide an updated translation file? With the new mp3 tab translations will need updating.

P.S.: The overwrite dialog is great. I've always missed that in BeSweet/BeSweetGUI. Oh, and now that I see the mp3 quality hint: it's definitely better than a label.

[Kurtnoise]

Hi,

Originally posted by Brother John
On startup, when input/output files already had been selected, logfile name is reduced to its file extension. Also when changing encoder tabs, output file name gets reduced to its file extension.

Yes I know...I must fix it right now.

Originally posted by Brother John
When disabling azid's dynamic compression and then checking any other option, "-c" reappears in the command string, but the GUI checkbox stays unchecked.

ok...I'll fix it.

Originally posted by Brother John
Boost: For DSPguru's algorithm "/l=0.95" is not written to command string. Is this intentional?
No, sorry. It's not intentional.

Originally posted by Brother John
When switching from a different language back to English, the "recommanded" typo on Vorbis tab still exists.

Yes I know...It's fixed now.

Originally posted by Brother John
For dialog normalization reduction "-n" is written to command string, which doesn't enable DNR. The switch needs a nonzero number as an argument: "-n 1" or "-n1". It might work nonetheless when using hybridgain or dynamic compression "-c" because those functions enable DNR automatically for 5.1 downmixes.

Are you sure ? When I checked Azid documentation, I saw -n function for DNR. Maybe I'm wrong.

Originally posted by Brother John
Note: Should you consider implementing rear channel filtering into BeLight at some time, it works the same. "-f 1" or "-f1" are needed to enable the function properly.

Ok, I can add it.

Originally posted by Brother John
AAC: When switching from vbr to cbr, "-vbr_..." remains in the command string in addition to "-cbr".
When AAC tab was selected before closing BeLight, on startup no bsn-section is written to command string.
AAC: When switching from Stereo to 5.1 (or vice versa) every checkbox on the tab gets unchecked. The command string is emptied accordingly.
When "Profiles" checkbox is not checked and you chose a vbr preset or cbr bitrate, "-aacprofile_he" is always added to command string.
When mp3 tab is selected on startup, an empty lame section "-lame( )" appears in the command string.
MP2: When you switch encoder engine to MP2enc and then check anything on that tab, command string goes back to "-toolame(...)".
MP2: When you choose a different "Encoding Mode" than "Joint Stereo" and then check anything else on the tab, command string changes back to "-m j".

aa yes...stupid bugs.

Originally posted by Brother John
MP2: Is it ok that "Total bitrate" and "VBR mode" can be selected together? I thought the -b switch was only for cbr.
The -b switch works for vbr too.

Originally posted by Brother John
In 5.1 mode both options cannot be checked. Imo disabling the checkboxes completely would be clearer.
When you switch from Stereo to 5.1 mode, both options are removed from command string but not unchecked unless you click on them.
When switching from Stereo to 5.1 on one encoder tab, then changing to another encoder tab where Stereo is selected (or no 5.1 possible), both options stay disabled. You have to go back to the tab where you switched to 5.1 channels and switch back to Stereo there. Even switching to 5.1 and back to Stereo on a different tab does not enable the two options.
When switching from 5.1 back to Stereo on Vorbis tab, both options get enabled and checked in the GUI again but no change to the command string occurs.
In 5.1 mode when both options are disabled, clicking on "LFE to LR" does not change the GUI but puts "-s" into the command string and deletes "-L" from it. When clicking on "Output mode" it's the other way round.
When "LFE to LR" is unchecked and "Output mode" checked, unchecking "Output mode" removes "-s" but adds "-L" to command string.
When selecting 5.1 output on WAV/PCM tab, you can still check both options.
When both options are unchecked, checking "LFE to LR" adds both "-L" and "-s" to command string.

Some of these bugs are known but thanks to point me out the others. I'm fixing them.

Originally posted by Brother John
Boost: On the German Doom9 forum LigH suggested (http://forum.gleitz.info/showpost.php?p=41321&postcount=2) for his LigH algorithm a boost factor of 3 and for DSPguru's algorithm a boost factor of 4 as appropriate and safe settings. Maybe change BeLight's values accordingly?

Ok, no problem.

Originally posted by Brother John
When BeSweet.exe is not there in BeLight's directory the "Start" button simply does nothing. A little note on the reason for the error would be nice.

Yes, for sure. ;)

Originally posted by Brother John

Lame question: (Gabriel, you might know best)
Is a lame command line of "-m j -v --vbr-old -V 2" equivalent to "--preset standard"? At least that is BeLight's command line for the quality slider's "preset standard" position (similar for the other presets). The answer is especially important for Lame 3.90 because that's the version shipping with latest BeSweet 1.5b29.

Gabriel should know that better than me, but check this post (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=18091) on HA. BeLight is based on these equivalences.


Originally posted by Brother John
Before I forget: Kurtnoise13, could you provide an updated translation file? With the new mp3 tab translations will need updating.

Not for the moment coz I need to rewrite the language support in my code. I'll post some info on this subject as soon as it will be ready. :)

Originally posted by Brother John
The overwrite dialog is great. I've always missed that in BeSweet/BeSweetGUI. Oh, and now that I see the mp3 quality hint: it's definitely better than a label.
;)

Anyway, thank you for the bugs report.

[Kurtnoise]

One other issue with the last beta : the new mp3 CBR Mode doesn't works properly. :o

[Kurtnoise]

BeLight is hosted on CoreCodec (http://corecodec.org/projects/belight/) now. :)


Many thanks to CC.org team especially Dan Marlin, Toff and BlackSun. Thanks guys. ;)

[filewalker]

I updated now from 0.19 to 0.21. beta2.

Why did you delete the quality profiles in the AAC tab?
It was so functional & clearly. :(
I don't see any disadvantage if you would let it in the AAC tab.

edit: sorry, I forgot to look at the top, where the presets are listed.It's more clearly in this way THANKS!



Btw. what's the progres with VOBinput?


...really great work! :)

Cu filewalker

[Kurtnoise]

Originally posted by filewalker
Btw. what's the progres with VOBinput?

under construction...I've a bunch of errors to fix before to add new thing. ;)

BTW if your VOB contains only one audio stream and you have VOBInput.dll in BeLight folder, all should work fine by choosing "All Files" from the input list normally...

[Gabriel_Bouvigne]

Is a lame command line of "-m j -v --vbr-old -V 2" equivalent to "--preset standard"?
With 3.94 and upper, yes.

[Brother John]

Originally posted by Gabriel_Bouvigne
With 3.94 and upper, yes.
Unfortunately latest BeSweet archive contains Lame dll 3.90. That's why I think it would be a good idea to use --preset command line for preset slider positions. At least until BeSweet comes with a more recent Lame dll.
Thanks for the HA link, Kurt. Interesting read!

Concerning DNR: Yes, I'm sure it has to be "-n1". BeSweet documentation gives "-n BOOL" as syntax. I also tested this command line:besweet.exe -core( -input "Audio eng.ac3" -output Test.m4a ) -azid( -n ) -bsn( -6chnew )BeSweet tells me:[00:00:00:000] | Dialog normalization: No
When changing Azid section to "-azid( -n1 )" DNR is active. In fact any nonzero value will do.

Another 3 things I found:
Vorbis: BeLight's CBR mode actually produces an ABR file, e.g. "-b 128 -m 96 -M 256" and "-b 128" result in bit-identical files. Encoder version was 1.1.0.
From oggenc's documentation: "-b n, --bitrate=n. Sets encoding to the bitrate closest to n (in kb/s)." Does Vorbis even have a CBR mode?
Lame: CBR bitrate slider should be restricted to valid cbr bitrates. BeSweet aborts otherwise ("Error 47: Error with Lame dll"). Did you mean that when saying "the new mp3 CBR Mode doesn't works properly"?
Lame: Minimum allowed bitrate for "--abr" is 77 for v3.90 and 72 for v3.96. "Error 47" will occur when lower.

[Gabriel_Bouvigne]

Lame: Minimum allowed bitrate for "--abr" is 77 for v3.90 and 72 for v3.96. "Error 47" will occur when lower.
For 3.96 the minimum abr bitrate is 8.

[Gabriel_Bouvigne]

BeSweet and BeLight are using the Lame dll or the Lame exe?

[Brother John]

BeSweet uses lame dll.

lame_enc.dll
140800 bytes
08/08/2003, 14:59

When transcoding to MP3 this message appears:
"Using lame_enc.dll v1.32 (8/8/2003), Engine 3.90 <http://www.mp3dev.org/>."

You can of course use a differen lame_enc.dll, but above is the one shipped with BeSweet.

Edit:
Tested the min bitrates using stereo wave input in 44.1 and 48 kHz. My 3.96 dll is dated 07/26/2004. Downloaded from rarewares.org iirc.

[Kurtnoise]

Originally posted by Brother John
Concerning DNR: Yes, I'm sure it has to be "-n1". BeSweet documentation gives "-n BOOL" as syntax. I also tested this command line:besweet.exe -core( -input "Audio eng.ac3" -output Test.m4a ) -azid( -n ) -bsn( -6chnew )BeSweet tells me:[00:00:00:000] | Dialog normalization: No
When changing Azid section to "-azid( -n1 )" DNR is active. In fact any nonzero value will do.
That's pretty strange indeed...:confused:

I tested on my first sample (AC3_6ch 48 KHz) :
BeSweet v1.5b29 by DSPguru.
--------------------------
Using azid.dll v1.9 (b922) by Midas (midas@egon.gyaloglo.hu).
Using libVorbis.dll v1.0 ( Sep 24 2004 ) by John33 (www.inf.ufpr.br/~rja00).

Logging start : 12/27/04 , 17:48:45.

BeSweet.exe -core( -input D:\Music\CHAPTER_17.ac3
-output D:\Music\CHAPTER_17.ogg
-logfile D:\Music\CHAPTER_17.log )
-azid( -n -s stereo -c normal -L -3db )
-ota( -hybridgain ) -ogg( -q 0.200 )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : D:\Music\CHAPTER_17.ac3
[00:00:00:000] | Output: D:\Music\CHAPTER_17.ogg
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: Yes
[00:00:00:000] | PostGain normalize to : 0.97
[00:00:00:000] +-------- AZID -------
[00:00:00:000] | Input Channels Mode: 3/2, Bitrate: 448kbps
[00:00:00:000] | Output Stereo mode: Dolby surround compatible
[00:00:00:000] | Total Gain: 10.000dB, Compression: Normal
[00:00:00:000] | LFE levels: To LR -3.0dB, To LFE 0.0dB
[00:00:00:000] | Center mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Surround mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Dialog normalization: -4dB
[00:00:00:000] | Rear channels filtering: No
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 48.0KHz
[00:00:00:000] +-------- OGG --------
[00:00:00:000] | VBR Quality : 0.200
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:02:17:056] Gain of 5.7dB had been asserted to file.
[00:02:17:056] Conversion Completed !
[00:02:17:056] Actual Avg. Bitrate : 95kbps
[00:00:51:000] <-- Transcoding Duration

Logging ends : 12/27/04 , 17:49:36.


BeSweet v1.5b29 by DSPguru.
--------------------------
Using azid.dll v1.9 (b922) by Midas (midas@egon.gyaloglo.hu).
Using libVorbis.dll v1.0 ( Sep 24 2004 ) by John33 (www.inf.ufpr.br/~rja00).

Logging start : 12/27/04 , 17:51:33.

BeSweet.exe -core( -input D:\Music\CHAPTER_17.ac3
-output D:\Music\CHAPTER_17.ogg
-logfile D:\Music\CHAPTER_17.log )
-azid( -n1 -s stereo -c normal -L -3db )
-ota( -hybridgain ) -ogg( -q 0.200 )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : D:\Music\CHAPTER_17.ac3
[00:00:00:000] | Output: D:\Music\CHAPTER_17.ogg
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: Yes
[00:00:00:000] | PostGain normalize to : 0.97
[00:00:00:000] +-------- AZID -------
[00:00:00:000] | Input Channels Mode: 3/2, Bitrate: 448kbps
[00:00:00:000] | Output Stereo mode: Stereo
[00:00:00:000] | Total Gain: 10.000dB, Compression: Normal
[00:00:00:000] | LFE levels: To LR -3.0dB, To LFE 0.0dB
[00:00:00:000] | Center mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Surround mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Dialog normalization: -4dB
[00:00:00:000] | Rear channels filtering: No
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 48.0KHz
[00:00:00:000] +-------- OGG --------
[00:00:00:000] | VBR Quality : 0.200
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:02:17:056] Gain of 4.9dB had been asserted to file.
[00:02:17:056] Conversion Completed !
[00:02:17:056] Actual Avg. Bitrate : 90kbps
[00:00:46:000] <-- Transcoding Duration

Logging ends : 12/27/04 , 17:52:19.


Originally posted by Brother John
Vorbis: BeLight's CBR mode actually produces an ABR file, e.g. "-b 128 -m 96 -M 256" and "-b 128" result in bit-identical files. Encoder version was 1.1.0.
From oggenc's documentation: "-b n, --bitrate=n. Sets encoding to the bitrate closest to n (in kb/s)." Does Vorbis even have a CBR mode?
mmh yes...check (http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/vorbis-dev/2004-September/017670.html) the ML.

Originally posted by Brother John
Lame: CBR bitrate slider should be restricted to valid cbr bitrates. BeSweet aborts otherwise ("Error 47: Error with Lame dll"). Did you mean that when saying "the new mp3 CBR Mode doesn't works properly"?
yes...exactly.

[Brother John]

DNR: It works because you were doing a downmix to stereo using -c and -hybridgain. As I wrote above: "It might work nonetheless when using hybridgain or dynamic compression "-c" because those functions enable DNR automatically for 5.1 downmixes." In fact using hybridgain enables DNR automatically even if you keep the 6ch. Do a 5.1 -> 5.1 transcoding with pregain/postgain/no gain at all like in my example. DNR will stay disabled when using "-n". If you don't have Nero, try 6ch vorbis.

Vorbis: Maybe BeSweet does not support CBR Vorbis? After all it's only available since 1.1.0.
Well, to make sure I encoded the same file (16bit stereo wave) twice. libvorbis.dll used was the v1.1.0 compile from rarewares.org (P4 version) dated 2004-09-24.besweet.exe -core( -input testin.wav -output test_cbr.ogg ) -ogg( -b 128 )andbesweet.exe -core( -input testin.wav -output test_abr.ogg ) -ogg( -b 128 -m 96 -M 256 )
The resulting files - in contrast to my statement above - are exactly the same size but not bit-identical.
However, ogginfo tells me this for test_cbr.ogg:Processing file "test_cbr.ogg"...

New logical stream (#1, serial: 000073f8): type vorbis
Vorbis headers parsed for stream 1, information follows...
Version: 0
Vendor: Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20040920
Channels: 2
Rate: 44100

Nominal bitrate: 128,000000 kb/s
Upper bitrate not set
Lower bitrate not set
User comments section follows...
ENCODED_USING=Made with BeSweet v1.5b29
ENCODER_URL=http://DSPguru.doom9.org
Vorbis stream 1:
Total data length: 2353385 bytes
Playback length: 2m:25.053s
Average bitrate: 129,794191 kb/s
Logical stream 1 ended
129,794191 kbps looks a lot like abr to me. And the number is exactly the same for test_abr.ogg.

Then I did another test:besweet.exe -core( -input testin.wav -output test_cbr2.ogg ) -ogg( -b 128 -m 128 -M 128 )
Even for this file ogginfo displays an average bitrate of 129,794191 kbps. However, that's always really close to true 128,000. Let's see what oggenc2.exe does (Oggenc2.3 using libVorbis v1.1.0 dated 2004-10-23; P4 compile from rarewares.org)

Command line:oggenc2 testin.wav -b 128 -m 128 -M 128
oggenc's final output:
File length: 2m 25,0s
Elapsed time: 0m 30,0s
Rate: 4,8351
Average bitrate: 129,8 kb/s

And ogginfo output:Processing file "test_cbr_oggenc.ogg"...

New logical stream (#1, serial: 0000092b): type vorbis
Vorbis headers parsed for stream 1, information follows...
Version: 0
Vendor: Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20040920
Channels: 2
Rate: 44100

Nominal bitrate: 128,000000 kb/s
Upper bitrate: 128,000000 kb/s
Lower bitrate: 128,000000 kb/s
Vorbis stream 1:
Total data length: 2353386 bytes
Playback length: 2m:25.053s
Average bitrate: 129,794246 kb/s
Logical stream 1 ended

Testing aborted. I'm confused. Are the numbers given by ogginfo and oggenc2 wrong? Is Vorbis cbr implemented with no way to use it yet? Does BeSweet support Vorbis cbr or not? Who'd want to use Vorbis cbr in the first place?

[Imperial Llama]

I think this new MP3 tab is great. :)

There is one thing I've noticed with the version of lame_enc.dll that comes with BeSweet (and 3.96.1 from Rarewares too) that I think people should be aware of:

For some reason it sets the minimum bitrate for the -V modes to 128, where as the command line version only does this for -V 2 or lower. This means when you try to use a low quality you often end up with what is effectively a 128kbps CBR file. I don't know whether this behaviour is intentional, but I always use -b 32 with -V modes greater than 2 so you end up with lower VBR bitrates like you get when you use the command line version.

[Kurtnoise]

Originally posted by Brother John
DNR: It works because you were doing a downmix to stereo using -c and -hybridgain. As I wrote above: "It might work nonetheless when using hybridgain or dynamic compression "-c" because those functions enable DNR automatically for 5.1 downmixes." In fact using hybridgain enables DNR automatically even if you keep the 6ch. Do a 5.1 -> 5.1 transcoding with pregain/postgain/no gain at all like in my example. DNR will stay disabled when using "-n". If you don't have Nero, try 6ch vorbis.
Well...ok. I didn't know that.


About cbr Vorbis :
I think you misunderstood "Average bitrate" and "Nominal Bitrate" terms.

Nominal means a state of bitrate that the encoder *should* try to keep to. Some audio streams have more or less certain complexity in their structure. That's why the bitrate can fluctuate around this specified value.
Average refers here to the bitrate means calculation of the file.

BTW, CBR Vorbis mode under BeSweet or oggenc isn't recommended yet to have the best results. I put it under BeLight because I think about the future.....;) when this will be completely operational.

[m0rtal]

Well, AFAIK, Vorbis do not have any working cbr implementation ATM - this codec was not intended to work in such mode. Why do you want cbr, anyway?

[Brother John]

Originally posted by Kurtnoise13
I think you misunderstood "Average bitrate" and "Nominal Bitrate" terms.
I know about the difference. For true VBR nominal bitrate is only a very rough estimation of resulting average bitrate. But ABR mode is designed to keep the variable distribution of bitrate and match the nominal bitrate as closely as possible.
My point is: When encoding true CBR, nominal and average bitrate should be exactly the same. Because if we leave things like bit reservoir out of the equation the encoder assigns the same amount of bits to every frame without considering audio complexity. That's the point of a constant bitrate, isn't it?
And that's why I can't believe (given oggenc and ogginfo report correct numbers) 129,794246 kbit to be cbr. If it were 128.1 or 127.9 maybe because of things like bit reservoir. A deviation of 1.7 kbit however, that's definitely too much.

I think m0rtal is right: Presently there is no way to actually encode cbr with Vorbis, so there's not much use for the option in BeLight at the moment.

Btw: Is there a tool that can show bitrate distribution for ogg vorbis files? That might help to clear things up.

[m0rtal]

Brother John
if we leave things like bit reservoir out of the equation the encoder assigns the same amount of bits to every frame without considering audio complexity. That's the point of a constant bitrate, isn't it?
yep, exactly

IIRC, Vorbis codec was intentionally written with "VBR" only - to achieve maximum quality, etc... So the implementation of CBR mode is very tough in Vorbis :)

so there's not much use for the option in BeLight at the moment
exactly :)

Is there a tool that can show bitrate distribution for ogg vorbis files? That might help to clear things up
never heard :(

[Kurtnoise]

Is there a tool that can show bitrate distribution for ogg vorbis files? That might help to clear things upoggspot (http://kurtnoise.free.fr/oggspot.zip) ...;)


But please, back to the topic right now.

[m0rtal]

yeah, sorry :)
you know, yesterday I've tried BeLight... no issues so far, even though I'm experienced bug tracker :)

[m0rtal]

well, actually I've catched a few "bugz"...

- when opening BeLight (BL), old filenames are stored in "Input" and "Output", but actually even if those files already exists, BL don't open them. Is it intentional? 'Couse I often encode files with same names, and it's confusing to have filename completed in "Input" field, but not having it opened...
- when overvriting existing file, BL asks questions in French (?!)
- main window is placed in the center of desktop - it's ok, but when opening "Advanced Settings", new window is half-off the screen to the right :( very annoying
- if "Input" field leaved unchanged since last time program was closed, clicking on "Advanced Settings" shows all fields unhidden - I mean, some are not grayed out (see first issue)

That's all for now

PS: Almost forgot... it's good to have "Priority" function - to run process with desired priority (i.e., low, idle, high, etc...)
Thanks!

[m0rtal]

just catch another one...
for some strange reason, BL uses LigH boost istead of selected DSPGuru... wtf? :(

[m0rtal]

aaand another one:
"Output Log file" is always turned ON by default, even if unchecked.
I can redirect output to screen only by checking and unchecking this option :(

[Kurtnoise]

Originally posted by m0rtal
- when opening BeLight (BL), old filenames are stored in "Input" and "Output", but actually even if those files already exists, BL don't open them. Is it intentional? 'Couse I often encode files with same names, and it's confusing to have filename completed in "Input" field, but not having it opened...
Why would you open the files whereas they are already in the input field ? If your files have all the same name, just click on Start...

Originally posted by m0rtal
- when overvriting existing file, BL asks questions in French (?!)

:D Not my fault....

Originally posted by m0rtal
- main window is placed in the center of desktop - it's ok, but when opening "Advanced Settings", new window is half-off the screen to the right :( very annoying

The question is why is it annoying for you ?? I can managed it on the center if you want. ;)

Originally posted by m0rtal
- if "Input" field leaved unchanged since last time program was closed, clicking on "Advanced Settings" shows all fields unhidden - I mean, some are not grayed out (see first issue)
It depends of the input format. For AC3, nothing is grayed but for the others the Azid Settings is disabled.


Originally posted by m0rtal
PS: Almost forgot... it's good to have "Priority" function - to run process with desired priority (i.e., low, idle, high, etc...)

Yes I know...

[Kurtnoise]

Originally posted by m0rtal
just catch another one...
for some strange reason, BL uses LigH boost istead of selected DSPGuru... wtf? :(
huh ?? I tested this morning and all seems to work fine.

Post your log file otherwhise...

[Kurtnoise]

Originally posted by m0rtal
aaand another one:
"Output Log file" is always turned ON by default, even if unchecked.
I can redirect output to screen only by checking and unchecking this option :(
I corrected this issue last night...:p

[m0rtal]

Originally posted by Kurtnoise13
Why would you open the files whereas they are already in the input field ? If your files have all the same name, just click on Start...
...and if I want to adjust some settings? In this case I still have to reopen files - to have correct options hidden/unhidden, checked/unchecked, etc...


:D Not my fault....
then who's? my default language is russian :)


The question is why is it annoying for you ?? I can managed it on the center if you want. ;)
it's annoying because I have to drag it to center every time I open it :)

It depends of the input format. For AC3, nothing is grayed but for the others the Azid Settings is disabled.
yes, I know, but if no file is opened, but filename is completed in the "Input" field, all options are available...
it's really confisung... I'm doing a lot of job on my PC and can forgot - did I've already open file or not... if it's opened, why all options are available, and if not - why I can see it's filename already filled?
You get my point?
No offence meaned :)

[m0rtal]

Originally posted by Kurtnoise13
huh ?? I tested this morning and all seems to work fine.

Post your log file otherwhise...
ok, tonight :)

[Kurtnoise]

Originally posted by m0rtal
...and if I want to adjust some settings? In this case I still have to reopen files - to have correct options hidden/unhidden, checked/unchecked, etc...
ok...I see. I'll try to make this better.


Originally posted by m0rtal
yes, I know, but if no file is opened, but filename is completed in the "Input" field, all options are available...
it's really confisung... I'm doing a lot of job on my PC and can forgot - did I've already open file or not... if it's opened, why all options are available, and if not - why I can see it's filename already filled?
You get my point?
No offence meaned :)
Ok...I'll change it.

[m0rtal]

thanks :)
you are doing very importand job :)

[Kurtnoise]

Hi guys,

Here is 0.21 beta 3 release (http://corecodec.org/projects/belight/). ;)

Changes from the 0.21 beta 2 :

- Updated : CBR mp3 part. It works great now.
- Modified : new Vorbis Q-Mode. Tell me what do you think about that....;-)
- Fixed : lot of stupid & cosmetics bugs reported by my best beta-testers (especially Brother John and Beiji...10x dudes).

Note:
- in this release, Multilanguage has been removed temporary...I'm rewritting this part right now.
@KillingSpree : I think you can start to write the guide now ;). If you want some help, I'm here.



Feel free to test it...and Happy New Year 2005 !!! :p

[Kurtnoise]

Bugs known :

Azid Settings disabling doesn't works properly if input files are wav, mp3, vorbis...
BSN settings loading doesn't work.


The second issue has been fixed...I'm resolving the first one.

[Brother John]

Originally posted by Kurtnoise13
Bugs known
Exactly the two things I found today. Nothing else. I'm looking forward to 0.21 final not just being called but actually feeling and working as a final version. Good job, Kurtnoise13!

The changed Vorbis tab is nice. To make all the encoder tabs look even more consistent maybe intruduce a slider for AC3 and MP2, too?