BeLight 0.22 beta 8 released

[dimzon]

I think like you in BeHappy.
initial plugin version was written by me ;)

btw did you compile wa_aacplus 2.1
Sorry, I forgot source code @ home... ReUpload source code to mytempdir.com (during 15 minutes) and I will provide you binary

[shon3i]

http://www.mytempdir.com/487849

[dimzon]

http://www.mytempdir.com/487849
http://www.mytempdir.com/487858

Note!
this is just quickfix to allow 6ch AAC+ up to 213kbps

[shon3i]

http://www.mytempdir.com/487858

Note!
this is just quickfix to allow 6ch AAC+ up to 213kbps
That's i need. Thanks

[dimzon]

http://www.mytempdir.com/487858

Note!
this is just quickfix to allow 6ch AAC+ up to 213kbps

Shit, seems like I make a bug... Will be fixed @ monday

[shon3i]

What a bug

[livingfruitvirus]

@dimzon
How can I see that? I'm sure that I'm using winamp 5.2. Was this info helpful?

---
Edit: Problem solved. I had forgotten to put the enc_aacplus.dll from winamp's 5.2 dir to belight's dir... :stupid:

I did that, but my problem isn't solved and I'm still getting that error.

I have BeSweet1.5b31, BeLight 0.22b9 and Winamp 5.2 Pro installed.

[nickolasemp]

I did that, but my problem isn't solved and I'm still getting that error.

I have BeSweet1.5b31, BeLight 0.22b9 and Winamp 5.2 Pro installed.
When you say Belight 0.22b9 I hope you mean the daily build 20060220... Otherwise you'll have the problem as well.

[livingfruitvirus]

When you say Belight 0.22b9 I hope you mean the daily build 20060220...

I do mean that actually.

[jellysandwich]

- There are 3 packages now at CoreCodec.org (Normal, Lancer and P4). The main difference between these 3 builds comes from libvorbis. The Normal version corresponds to normal libvorbis.dll, Lancer bundle is optimized for speed without loose quality and P4 version refers to libvorbis.dll optimized for Pentium4 core. In addition, all versions use AoTuv enhancements.

How exactly does this work? I don't see a libvorbis.dll file in the package, and I can't even find it on my harddrive anywhere.

Well, in the end, I just care about the AoTuv enhancements. How does BeLight use them?

js

[deets]

im trying to create a mono aac file from a stereo ac3 file. when i chose either downmix to mono, or change the output mode to mono in advance (or do both), the the speech comes out extremely slow. if i leave the settings, but dont downmix, it works just fine :(

[Kurtnoise]

How exactly does this work? I don't see a libvorbis.dll file in the package, and I can't even find it on my harddrive anywhere.
Well...you must have an .exe package not the zip which contains only BeLight.

Well, in the end, I just care about the AoTuv enhancements. How does BeLight use them?
Depends of the libraries you have...most simple thing is to use libvorbis.dll. Put it in the same BeSweet directory and you'll have an encode with it.

[Kurtnoise]

im trying to create a mono aac file from a stereo ac3 file. when i chose either downmix to mono, or change the output mode to mono in advance (or do both), the the speech comes out extremely slow. if i leave the settings, but dont downmix, it works just fine :(
which player and decoder did you use ?

which Nero version did you try ?

[JoeBG]

Shit, seems like I make a bug... Will be fixed @ monday

Any news for the fixed version?

[jellysandwich]

Depends of the libraries you have...most simple thing is to use libvorbis.dll. Put it in the same BeSweet directory and you'll have an encode with it.

Got it, thanks.

js

[nickolasemp]

@dimzon

I used your "release.zip" in belight's dir but still, the pointer in winamp's ct, doesn't go any further than 128 kbps for 5.1 encoding! What am I doing wrong..?

[dimzon]

@dimzon

I used your "release.zip" in belight's dir but still, the pointer in winamp's ct, doesn't go any further than 128 kbps for 5.1 encoding! What am I doing wrong..?
Use fresh Kurtnoise plugin
Don't forget to put fresh enc_aacplus.dll into BeSweet folder

[nickolasemp]

@dimzon
As for the enc_aacplus.dll I've learned from my mistake (remember that I had forgotten to put it previous time, right?)
When Kurtnoise (http://corecodec.org/projects/belight/)'s page is up I'll try what you've said...

[Palikrovol]

@dimzon
As for the enc_aacplus.dll I've learned from my mistake (remember that I had forgotten to put it previous time, right?)
When Kurtnoise (http://corecodec.org/projects/belight/)'s page is up I'll try what you've said...

Use this one

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=788401&postcount=1084

[nickolasemp]

I still can't make it work. Whatever... It doesn't matter. Perhaps it's winamp's 5.2.1 new encoder that (new Coding Technology AAC+ Decoder 7.2.5) that doesn't let you tweak this. I put everything in folder (all of Kurtnoise's dlls) but still I can';t get past 128 kbps for 5.1 encoding. Frustrating... :mad:

[dimzon]

I still can't make it work. Whatever... It doesn't matter. Perhaps it's winamp's 5.2.1 new encoder that (new Coding Technology AAC+ Decoder 7.2.5) that doesn't let you tweak this. I put everything in folder (all of Kurtnoise's dlls) but still I can';t get past 128 kbps for 5.1 encoding. Frustrating... :mad:
plese share your enc_aacplus.dll with me - i will check it

[nickolasemp]

Wait i'll upload it in a few seconds in mytempdir.com

http://www.mytempdir.com/535316

[shon3i]

@nickolasemp i use enc_aacplus.dll from 5.2.1 with belight and encode 5.1 @ 128kbs everything is fine

@dimzon here is enc_aacplus.dll from 5.2.1 http://www.mytempdir.com/535312 , everything is fine with your lastest BeHappy and Kurtnoise13 BeLight

[nickolasemp]

I never said I wanted it to encode in 128kbps shon3i. I want to encode above 128kbps in 5.1 channels...

[shon3i]

Oh sorry, but you can to do that with lastest build of BeLight up to 213kbs

http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/9648/belight4hx.jpg

I encode and everything is fine

[nickolasemp]

where did you find this version of belight? Look at mine:
http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/3823/image27ya.jpg

I even checked at http://corecodec.org/frs/?group_id=45&release_id=269#r269 where belight's latest build should be and see what the latest build says it is... I feel like I;ve been left out of this whole update... :(

[shon3i]

I don't know where Kurtnoise13 put link but there is lastest beta from my computer http://www.mytempdir.com/535398, yust overwrite you existing files

[nickolasemp]

@shon3i

A million thanx... Finally I can encode my ac3 in whatever kbps I chose!

[Kurtnoise]

The last build can be found here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=799796#post799796).

[Brother John]

I have a suggestion for Lame VBR encoding.

By default BeSweet sets a minimum bitrate of 128 kbit. This is bad for low-bitrate quality levels though because from ca. "-V 5" and up this always results in a 128-kbit file effectively making half the quality levels quite useless.
If BeLight added a "-b 32" to the end of the Lame commandline BeSweet would work like lame.exe and allow vbr bitrates below 128 kbit.

[Kurtnoise]

Sure...I'll add it. ;)

[tebasuna51]

I have a suggestion for Lame VBR encoding.

By default BeSweet sets a minimum bitrate of 128 kbit. This is bad for low-bitrate quality levels though because from ca. "-V 5" and up this always results in a 128-kbit file effectively making half the quality levels quite useless.
If BeLight added a "-b 32" to the end of the Lame commandline BeSweet would work like lame.exe and allow vbr bitrates below 128 kbit.
Yes, there are a different behavior between Lame and BeSweet-lame.

Using lame:
lame.exe --vbr-new -V 5 Corrs.wav Corrs_L.mp3

Analyzing the file Corrs_L.mp3:
File Length : 4074356 bytes.
Frames : 10005
Duration : 261.355 seconds.
VBR min/Aver./max. : 32 / 124 / 256 Kb/s.
And using BeSweet-lame with same parameters:
BeSweet v1.5b31 by DSPguru.
--------------------------
Using lame_enc.dll v1.32 (22/12/2005), Engine 3.97

D:\Programa\Audio\besweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input ...)
-lame( -v --vbr-new -V 5 )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : D:\Musica\Corrs.wav
[00:00:00:000] | Output: D:\Musica\Corrs.mp3
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: Yes
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 44.1KHz
[00:00:00:000] +-------- LAME -------
[00:00:00:000] | Bitrate method : VBR (NEW)
[00:00:00:000] | VBR Quality : 5
[00:00:00:000] | MP3 Min bitrate : 128
[00:00:00:000] | MP3 Max bitrate : 320
[00:00:00:000] | Channels Mode : Joint Stereo
[00:00:00:000] | Error Protection: No
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:04:21:261] Conversion Completed !
[00:04:21:261] Actual Avg. Bitrate : 133kbps

Analyzing the file Corrs.mp3:
File Length : 4344189 bytes.
Frames : 10005
Duration : 261.355 seconds.
VBR min/Aver./max. : 32 / 133 / 256 Kb/s.
Low bitrate 32 Kb/s is used, but File Length and Avg. Bitrate is greater.

Using -b 32
-lame( -v --vbr-new -V 5 -b 32 )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : D:\Musica\Corrs.wav
[00:00:00:000] | Output: D:\Musica\Corrs_b.mp3
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: Yes
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 44.1KHz
[00:00:00:000] +-------- LAME -------
[00:00:00:000] | Bitrate method : VBR (NEW)
[00:00:00:000] | VBR Quality : 5
[00:00:00:000] | MP3 Min bitrate : 32
[00:00:00:000] | MP3 Max bitrate : 320
[00:00:00:000] | Channels Mode : Joint Stereo
[00:00:00:000] | Error Protection: No
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:04:21:261] Conversion Completed !
[00:04:21:261] Actual Avg. Bitrate : 124kbps

Analyzing the file Corrs_b.mp3:
File Length : 4074356 bytes.
Frames : 10005
Duration : 261.355 seconds.
VBR min/Aver./max. : 32 / 124 / 256 Kb/s.
File Length and Avg. Bitrate is exact than Lame.exe.

[Kurtnoise]

Thanks for this info. ;)

If only DSPGuru could be there to correct this...

[frank]

I selected MP3 stereo mode 192 kbps CBR,
and get joint stereo!

[Kurtnoise]

Yes...what's the problem ?

[shon3i]

Yes...what's the problem ?
He wants simple stereo instead joint stereo. That's problem.

[Kurtnoise]

js is stereo...Maybe you don't know what it is ?

[shon3i]

js is stereo...Maybe you don't know what it is ?
Yes the JS is Stereo but is different and using JS @ 192 is help to degrade quality of overall sound. JS is not recommend @ higher bitrates especilay @ 320. There is not need to use JS.

[Brother John]

shon3i, this is plain nonsense. The M/S variant of JS is a lossless process and never decreases quality.

Apart from very low bitrates (I don't use those, that's why I'm not really sure about the situation) every reasonably modern encoder uses M/S JS. In fact encoding the stereo channels independently (the so called "full stereo") will produce worse sound in virtually all scenarios. There simply is no reason NOT to use JS.

JS being bad is a myth that should have died a long time ago. The origins lie with very old encoders (I think one of them was Xing) having crappy JS implementations that indeed produced bad sound. But today those encoders are obsolete anyway.

I'm sure you can find lots of information about this topic, especially on hydrogenaudio.org. I'm just too lazy to dig that stuff up myself right now. ;)


Edit:
And to address frank's problem. I did a short test with BeSweet 1.5b31 and Lame dll 3.97 beta 2.
Lame commandline: -lame( -m s -b 192 )
This results in a 192 kbit/s CBR full stereo file.

Of course I added the "-m s" manually in BeLight's commandline window because setting stereo mode in the GUI is not possible.

Frank, if you're talking about "Advanced Settings / Output mode": This only sets the number of output channels for downmixing 6ch AC3s (dpl and dplii basically are stereo too). It doesn't say anything about how those channels should be encoded.

[shon3i]

shon3i, this is plain nonsense.This have big sense.

The M/S variant of JS is a lossless process and never decreases quality.
Well this is practicly right it is lossless but decrases quality However, for some audio, Joint Stereo M/S may create a 'flanging' or 'swishing' effect. and it's true. Sometimes is better to use real stereo and of course JS @ 320 is not necessary.

In fact encoding the stereo channels independently (the so called "full stereo") will produce worse sound in virtually all scenariosYes the bitrates @ <160 is good to use JS but sometimes @160 aslo good to use real stereo.

The origins lie with very old encoders (I think one of them was Xing) having crappy JS implementations that indeed produced bad sound. But today those encoders are obsolete anyway.
Actyally Xing uses IS (Intesivity Stereo) which is evil and decrase big quality but is good at low bitrates, now lame have prefect JS/MS but on >192kbs bitrates there is not necessary.

I'm sure you can find lots of information about this topic, especially on hydrogenaudio.org. I'm just too lazy to dig that stuff up myself right now.I am alredy find this informations, but my ears give's me this informations. LOL

For example AAC now know where to put MS and where real stereo. Practicly in AAC MS is good at all bitrates.

[Brother John]

I know we're straying offtopic, but I just can't resist commenting once more. Sorry. Maybe someone can split this discussion?

Lame defaults to JS for all bitrates for a reason. A lossless technique by definition cannot lose quality or it wouldn't be lossless. Any problems can only be due to placebo effects or bugs.
If those weird effects are reproducible and you can rule out placebo by doing proper ABX tests, you should file a bug report with the lame developers.

Though I'd really be surprised if a bug that huge would have been missed with all the testing going on around the 3.97 release. And the older 3.90 version was tested even more. It might be the most thoroughly tested audio codec existing. All (maybe with some minor exceptions) those tests were done with JS and no one of the golden ears and heavy knowledge guys spotted this "'flanging' or 'swishing'".
Assuming those things to be real seems very far fetched to me. And your general assuming "bitrate x doesn't need y" is not very helpful to make me trust your claims either. Encoding reality usually is far too complex for such statements.

So it might be true that JS sound worse to you than full stereo. But think at least twice before claiming this to be an encoder problem and not just your subjective perception.

[shon3i]

I know we're straying offtopic, but I just can't resist commenting once more. Sorry. Maybe someone can split this discussion?I agree with you if moders want to split this into new discussion.

Lame defaults to JS for all bitrates for a reason. A lossless technique by definition cannot lose quality or it wouldn't be lossless. Any problems can only be due to placebo effects or bugs.
If those weird effects are reproducible and you can rule out placebo by doing proper ABX tests, you should file a bug report with the lame developers.Yes lame uses always JS but lame can reduce using MS, something like AAC. In normal cases i think lame use more full stereo than MS practitcly that depend on bitrate. However use full stereo becouse sometimes this 'flanging' or 'swishing' effect is present in most cases. I think that is not a bug becouse in realy, realy little cases i hear this on AAC. This is little test http://www.mytempdir.com/558679 but is not noticable different in quality, for me full stereo sounds more stronger and more quality near to original. I am donig with lastest lame 3.98.

[scilli]

Very good GUI for Besweet, however I'm having some problems encoding aac for my phone. When I mux a aac file created with belight into my 3gp file I get know audio playback on the phone. This is the case with both nero digital(hc, and lc), and 3gp reference. Anyone have some ideas or experience making cell phone compatable audio. My phone is a motorola rokr ep by the way, which I believe only supports lc aac but am not sure.

[Kurtnoise]

Very good GUI for Besweet, however I'm having some problems encoding aac for my phone. When I mux a aac file created with belight into my 3gp file I get know audio playback on the phone.
you mean "I get no audio playback", right ? Which tool did you use to mux aac into your 3gp ?

Anyone have some ideas or experience making cell phone compatable audio. My phone is a motorola rokr ep by the way, which I believe only supports lc aac but am not sure.
Try to check the features or specs of your phone on official website. This is probably noticed.

[dwrbudr]

When will be released a version that simply works?
Are the bugs in the files list so hard to fix?!
I've described a bug more detailed in previous posts.
Another 'every day' situation: I load 5 stereo wav files in the list - 1.wav, 2.wav, etc. and try to convert them to AAC. Hit 'Start processing', then a couple of Access violations occur and I've end with 5 aac files with filesize 0 bytes :confused: Not to mention that the progress bar doesnt work at all - it is at 0% or at 100%, I haven't seen it moving :)

[scilli]

you mean "I get no audio playback", right ? Which tool did you use to mux aac into your 3gp ?

Correct. I am using Yamb 1.5, so mp4box. Should I use something else?

Try to check the features or specs of your phone on official website. This is probably noticed.

Already have. Their site sucks! Under technical specs all it gives are the demensions and weight of the phone. The only thing mentioned about the video is that it supports mpeg4/h.263, but I've done testing and it will play xvid with audio created by SUPER. But the aac files I create with SUPER are a lot bigger than the one's created by belight so I would like to find a way to make it work.

[Kurtnoise]

@dwrbudr : soon...I try to make my best. If you don't like it or if you're hurry, don't use it.

@scilli : ok. MP4Box is good. For the playback issue I really don't know. Maybe try with FAAC encoder (LC mode first in stereo).

[scilli]

FAAC works! But the file size is signifigantly bigger than a aac file of the same bitrate created by nerodigital. It seems that mp4box won't mux a nd aac file with my 3gp videos, it actually creates a file smaller than my video alone. At least I got if working but I would still like to figure out why FAAC is the only method that will work for my phone. Does anybody know the detailed differences between nd and faac?

[Kurtnoise]

I got if working but I would still like to figure out why FAAC is the only method that will work for my phone. Does anybody know the detailed differences between nd and faac?
Maybe, your phone is not able to play he-aac stream...FAAC encoder doesn't provide this feature.

[shon3i]

Very good GUI for Besweet, however I'm having some problems encoding aac for my phone. When I mux a aac file created with belight into my 3gp file I get know audio playback on the phone. This is the case with both nero digital(hc, and lc), and 3gp reference. Anyone have some ideas or experience making cell phone compatable audio. My phone is a motorola rokr ep by the way, which I believe only supports lc aac but am not sure.
I have Sony Erricson k750 and can play only HE/LC-AAC in mp4 container. I use Coding Tehnologies @ 48kbps via Belight and than resulting aac convert to mp4 via mp4box and work fine.