Haali Renderer

[KoD]

I've noticed the quality of the resizer is not as good as the previous versions as well. I believe Haali changed the shaders so they would run faster at the expense of quality on some hardware (maybe because of some graphic card shader units limitations). You're not the only one to notice jaggies. :(

[foxyshadis]

Thankyou Haali :D

But not sure i understand, so if I am using MPC's built in MPEG-2 codec, how would i tell it to use your renderer's deinterlacer instead of its own?

Would it be faster since it uses shaders and thus my video card?

You could try ffdshow's MPEG-2 decoder, which is now supposed to support interlaced signalling (and thus hardware deinterlacing). Not sure if it's via libavcodec, libmpeg2, or even if the mpeg-2 ones do at all (but absolutely sure the mpeg-4 decoders do, so no reason it shouldn't).

Hi,

Something "strange" (at least for me) with Haali renderer:


What graphics card do you have? And what driver version?

[Peuj]

What graphics card do you have? And what driver version?

Not a good one at my office :-) it's a GeForce FX5200 and the latest driver 93.71.

[sillKotscha]

@Peuj

which decoder you are using?? ... if you use coreavc for example change it to directshow deinterlacing and see if that helps...

[Peuj]

@Peuj

which decoder you are using?? ... if you use coreavc for example change it to directshow deinterlacing and see if that helps...

I would like to try what you say but I'm only using ffdshow and MPC. Can I change to directshow deinterlacing anyway? if yes how?

thanks

[Seb.26]

Just to correct something I've say in previous posts : the setup of the sharpeness is applied in real time by the render, I have test this point yesterday ...

Sorry for the bad information from me ... :o

To obtain the smoothest playback on my machine and no more tearing, following points are important :
- disable "queue" in ffdshow
- Enable "vsync controled by software" in you drivers
- disable "soft vsync" in the render
- disable "lock back lock" in MPC

(thanks Haali for your help, all is perfect now !!!)

Another thing : Fast forward is ... WAAOOHHH ...
( far better than vista IMO !!! :D )

[ExtraEye]

Where do I set Vsync on the driver? (I have nvidia).

[Seb.26]

Where do I set Vsync on the driver? (I have nvidia).
From the main menu of the new control panel ( you have 3 parts : display, game, video ), go in the game/directx part ( icon is a "space ship" ), and go in advanced or something with a lots of parameters in a listbox ...

But my memory maybe wrong ... :o

[Haali]

You don't really need to force vsync, just make sure it's not set to force off. Application-controlled is a better setting I think.

[Warpman]

You don't really need to force vsync, just make sure it's not set to force off. Application-controlled is a better setting I think.
any news on this issue ?
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=947998#post947998

:thanks:

[ExtraEye]

I tried setting the Vsync option off in the renderer and it made the video go off sync. :(

Setting the driver to force Vsync or not forcing it didn;t make a difference.

[tekNerd]

I tried setting the Vsync option off in the renderer and it made the video go off sync. :(

Setting the driver to force Vsync or not forcing it didn;t make a difference.

I concur.

[Seb.26]

Haali's render by default try to use vsync, so not need to force vsync ON, but at least allow application control ... in another words : set what you want expected "force OFF" ... ;)

[Peuj]

Haali's render by default try to use vsync, so not need to force vsync ON, but at least allow application control ... in another words : set what you want expect "force OFF" ... ;)

I think you mean: excepted "force OFF" ;)

I'm not sure it will change anything to disable "queue" in ffdshow because I think it's not supported with Haali renderer.

Anyway I've tried everything but the sharpness still doesn't work for me.

[Seb.26]

I think you mean: excepted "force OFF" ;)
Probably ... :o ... sorry for my (too) bad English ... :o

I'm not sure it will change anything to disable "queue" in ffdshow because I think it's not supported with Haali renderer.
I don't know ... all I do is to repeat and group all Haali's directives in single post :D

Anyway I've tried everything but the sharpness still doesn't work for me.
Oh ... you are sure that a resize is needed ? ;)

[Peuj]

Probably ... :o ... sorry for my (too) bad English ... :o

no problems as I'm french my english is not good too. :-)


Oh ... you are sure that a resize is needed ? ;)

I don't understand what you mean? :confused:

There is a resize automatically done by Haali renderer I think because the original size of the video is 320x240 and when I open it in MPC the size of the video is around 640x480.

[Seb.26]

Sans deconner ?!!! :D ...
( Tu devrais venir faire un tour sur http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/ un de ces jours ... )
... mdr ...

( Sorry for this quick French aside :o )

I don't understand what you mean?
I mean that the sharpen is done during the resizing, so : no resizing, no sharpening ... but if your video is 320*200, your desktop resolution must be larger ... so the resize is needed (if you wach it in full screen) ... so sharpenning must be visible (if it work) ...

the problem is elsewhere ...

... no more idea for me ... :(

[Peuj]

Sans deconner ?!!! :D ...
( Tu devrais venir faire un tour sur http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/ un de ces jours ... )
... mdr ...

( Sorry for this quick French aside :o )


I mean that the sharpen is done during the resizing, so : no resizing, no sharpening ... but if your video is 320*200, your desktop resolution must be larger ... so the resize is needed (if you wach it in full screen) ... so sharpenning must be visible (if it work) ...

the problem is elsewhere ...

... no more idea for me ... :(

Ok I see but as I said the video is automatically resized by the Haali render so sharpening should work.
I've tried in fullscreen to be sure and the sharpening didn't work too.

Is there some limitation because of my graphic cards (GeForce FX5200 and the latest driver 93.71)?

Haali, do you have any ideas?

pssst : j'vais faire un tour sur http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/ dès que je peux ;)

[Seb.26]

Is there some limitation because of my graphic cards (GeForce FX5200 and the latest driver 93.71)?
No, I think your chipset can work with Pixel Shaders 2.0 ... :confused:

[Peuj]

No, I think your chipset can work with Pixel Shaders 2.0 ... :confused:

Thanks for help.

It seems I have to wait for Haali's ideas/comments.

[3ngel]

@Haali
Downloaded the latest version.

1) Your "policy resizing" doesn't work. On a 1600*1200 monitor with a 1920 input i get 1024*xxxx instead of ~1600
2) On a huffyyuv input there is black screen.

[Haali]

Video size is halved until it fits the screen or doubled until it is at least 400x300. This way 50% or 200% usually gives you original size.

[3ngel]

But, excuse me. At this point i don't get the utility of your autoresizing at all. Moreover it doesn't permit me to restore to original size with "Zoom 100%" menu item in MPC.
In the past i thought it could have some utility with the fact that you presumibly would use all the available screen size, but in this case what is the sense of it all? :confused: Sincerely with all my efforts i don't get it.

Sound strange to me that a good software like yours lost itself in this absurd matters...
So i remember you things, i think you would to fix

1) Add a switch to choose or not the "Autoresize policy"
2) Correct the black screen huffyyouv input

;)

[Haali]

The point of this feature is to get the video window fully visible when the file is initially opened. Sorry, but I _never_ watch videos with half of the video off-screen and invisible or when it's smaller than a postage stamp. If you prefer it that way, then you can always use VMR or other stock renderers. If for some obscure reason I need the original size, I simply use Alt-1 or Alt-3 in mpc, and if I'm going to seriously watch it, I use Alt-Enter.

[3ngel]

I'm not saying it as a question of "do it because i like so", and i wasn't arguing with you if i would not consider your render deserving of discussion (in order to improve it).
What i was asking from the beginning, was a simple switch to choose it or not. This switch hurts your viewing principles so much?

EDIT: Moreover i don't watch videos offscreen. I would like just to watch them occupyng as much screen as possible (and not as postage stamp as YOUR behaviour make it appear on my monitor) or at original size (for my testing purposes and for other matters)

[foxyshadis]

Adding switches is usually coincident with adding bugs and headaches, though, as well as UI clutter. So I can understand the reticence when it hasn't become a big issue.

[Keepitsimple]

Whats the point of vsync when you dont have hertz equal to a multiple of the fps of the movie? I never use vsync.

[KoD]

Whats the point of vsync when you dont have hertz equal to a multiple of the fps of the movie? I never use vsync.

To prevent tearing. This way, you can be sure you're not rendering on the screen a part of one frame and the rest from the next frame (the difference in position or color of the objects in those frames is what's percieved as tearing).

[kurt]

I got tearing as well (geforce 6800, ati radeon 1400): maybe try this clip for yourself: http://rapidshare.com/files/15969975/tearing.avi (15 mb, 1080p)

forcing vsync and disabling soft vsync doesn't help...

[Seb.26]

[Edit]
Deeper tests done ...
> There isn't any problem with color mapping with Haali's render when using RGB32 input.

[3ngel]

Apart from the fact that i'm waiting the HuffyYUY bug to be fixed :), i want to signal another bug.
On MPEG2 decoder by MPC, setting the deinterlacing to BOB, A/V gets desynched. Setting it to AUTO all is right. For sure it's not a CPU problem usage.
It seems like the renderer has some problem with the duplicated amount of data (BOB method duplicates the frame rate).

[tekNerd]

A new version is in, but I can't make it run in MPC. (I can't chose it as the directshow renderer).
I am a noob at this stuff, but until now I didn't need any help to do that. So, am I missing something here?

[anonymez]

same here, cannot select the renderer in MPC with this new version

[Seb.26]

Features ideas :
Could it be possible to add some important informations via OSD ?
> DirectX refresh rate
> Buffer level ( with level and max )

NB: in actual render, what is the "???????????????????????" in OSD ?

And why about adding a white vertical bar that scroll along the screen ? ( like in reclock ... this help a lot to detect smooth/un-smooth playback )

Thanks ;)
Seb

[MatMaul]

I haven't this problem with the last MPC build of celtic_druid.

[tekNerd]

I haven't this problem with the last MPC build of celtic_druid.
You mean the problem that I have, right?
Very strange than cause I have the same build.
Hmm...

PS: should I restart the computer? before I didn't had to do it, but what do I know?

[Peuj]

You mean the problem that I have, right?
Very strange than cause I have the same build.
Hmm...

PS: should I restart the computer? before I didn't had to do it, but what do I know?

I don't have the problem too. And I didn't reboot the computer.

Maybe you should try to close MPC, uninstall haali and reinstall.

[MatMaul]

I haven't restarted too :), because the installer don't ask me to reboot like it does if a component of the splitter is in use when I upgrade.

[tekNerd]

I don't have the problem too. And I didn't reboot the computer.

Maybe you should try to close MPC, uninstall haali and reinstall.

Now I have to reboot 'cause it seems that something was using Haali upon uninstall. Bo...

[tekNerd]

So I restarted, install Haali again and nothing. I still can't choose it.
WTF is going on with my computer?

EDIT:
GOT IT! The SpywareTerminator with Hips enabled, this is what is wrong with my computer.
The thing is that I allowed all, but I guess this HIPS thing is a tricky shit. Hmm...
On with testing...

[KoD]

I got the same problem with no longer seeing the Haali Video Renderer after installing. Asking for more info in the installer, it showed that dxr.dll was the first file to be registered and it failed with a "Could not load: E:\Program Files\Haali\MatroskaSplitter\dxr.dll" message. Simply registering that file myself worked, however.

[sillKotscha]

just a head up for Haali...

I didn't had any of the mentioned problems while installing your latest splitter release...

/me owning a simple XP-SP2 OS

[anonymez]

tried rebooting, uninstalling, re-installing etc, still disabled in MPC. like KoD, manually registering dxr.dll fixed it

XP SP2, no spyware/anti-virus installed. never happened with previous versions

[Haali]

It was an installer problem, I've uploaded a fixed one now.

[aydc]

The new version works quite good. No problems in installation or playback. There's no vsync option anymore. I didn't understand that the new sliders in the control panel were for, but I didn't have much time to try and find out. A help file might be useful in the next version.

[ExtraEye]

haali - new version doesn't have Vsync and now the video is out of sync for me... I lowered all settings and still :( Why was it removed?

[Haali]

Soft vsync always caused tearing, so I removed it. And it's not related to a/v sync.

[ExtraEye]

Then I don't know why this is. Does it drop frames when needed? because after I zeroed the sharpening that's the only difference that can be left. with VMR the frame droping from ffdshow works.

[Haali]

No, the renderer doesn't drop frames. If your machine is too slow it would lose a/v sync.

[KoD]

3000+ Athlon, geforce 6600GT <- That system should have no issues.

ExtraEye, use the nvidia control panel to set vsync on in it for DirectX. Also, in your decoders, let them output only rgb32 and nothing else. This does reduce cpu usage significantly on my system, even if I have a different gfx card from another manufacturer.