Haali Renderer

[Haali]

kutjong: looks like your video card is not fast enough, deinterlacing in HR is not optimized and uses a lot of memory bandwidth, also the upscaler runs twice per frame, and the amount of work it does is proportional to the destination size (each output pixel is computed separately).

[Yong]

i got 200ms jitter, and its keep increasing(ffdshow/libmpeg2), tried 1024x768, and native 1680x1050 desktop resolution, same problem, source is NTSC DVD.
my pc spec: amd x2 6000+, ati radeon 2600xt and 2gb of system memory.
the ~200ms jitter still there even just play the vob file with 24 frames buffered.

[cca]

Question: How did you manage to use the Haali Renderer for DVDs? I never managed to make it work, MPC freezes, and ZoomPlayer says "Macrovision Error". I use Windows Vista x64 with an Nvdia 8800GTS

[LoRd_MuldeR]

I use MPC (latest builds by CLSID) + ffdshow-tryouts (latest build).
It will also use the "DVD Navigator" filter, but that one ships with Windows/DirectShow.
In ffdshow "Codecs" configuration, set MPEG2 to "libmpeg2" for DVD playback.
Furthermore check "DVD decoding (not working yet)", which can be found below.
Although stated that it does not work yet, it actually does work fine :)

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/3026/fileffdshowdvdqe7.th.png (http://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fileffdshowdvdqe7.png) http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/6974/fileffdshowdvd2id8.th.png (http://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fileffdshowdvd2id8.png)

Note: I'm on Windows XP Professional x64-Edition, so I cannot say if it works on Vista x64 the same way...

[Yong]

Question: How did you manage to use the Haali Renderer for DVDs? I never managed to make it work, MPC freezes, and ZoomPlayer says "Macrovision Error". I use Windows Vista x64 with an Nvdia 8800GTS
dont give up that easily :p , yeah i got the error message "Macrovision Fail" in mpc hc too, but it works after the second try lol :rolleyes:

[kutjong]

Question: How did you manage to use the Haali Renderer for DVDs? I never managed to make it work, MPC freezes, and ZoomPlayer says "Macrovision Error". I use Windows Vista x64 with an Nvdia 8800GTS
I just use MPC, HR, AC3filter and ffdshow's mpeg2lib for dvd playback. No trouble, except that when going from menu to menu the screen will sometimes remain black for about 20 seconds before the selected menu shows up. This doesn't happen with VMR-9.
I'm using win xp though. Maybe HR isn't quite so Vista x64 compatible.

[cca]

Well, I tried the same setups, no matter what I try, MPC just totally freezes and I have to end task. Haali just won't work with a DVD graph in my setup.

[Shakey_Jake33]

I use Vista x64, so it does work fine in that! Newest ffdshow tryouts, libmpeg2, DVD Decoding checked. Macrovision error appears when I use ffdshow for AC3/DTS, but not if I use AC3Filter, so I just use that.

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9866/clipboard01vt3.th.jpg (http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clipboard01vt3.jpg)

[cca]

Hmm, I use reclock as my audio renderer, I wonder if that makes a difference, because I also use AC3Filter for AC3/DTS anyway.

[cca]

OK, now without reclock, it does not hang, but I always get Macrovision Fail error. Tried multiple times...

[Leak]

OK, now without reclock, it does not hang, but I always get Macrovision Fail error. Tried multiple times...
Reclock will only work with VMR or Overlay Mixer, so no surprises there...

[Rash]

This Macrovision Error is the most random error I've ever seen. I also get it with a certain combination of codecs, but suddenly this combination changes and I have to find a new one. I solved it by using Cyberlink + AC3 filter and EVR Custom Presenter.

[Shakey_Jake33]

It does seem to be real random. I used to get it using Cyberlink for Mpeg2, and solved it by using ffdshow libmpeg2. Started happening again, and solved it by disabling ffdshow for AC3/DTS* and using AC3filter (bearing in mind I'm using SPDIF passthrough on both, so it's not even decoding). All is good right now, which is good because I like Haali and prefer it to EVR Custom (EVR Custom gives me that wierd vertical line on some encodes when using Bicubic resize).

*even if the DVD uses LPCM for sound instead of DD/DTS

EDIT - Randomly got the error today, panicked and wanted to cry. Then realised I forgot to tick DVD Decoding in ffdshow when installing the new build. Fixed now - it's so fussy!

[Jedd]

Radeon 2600xt, Core2, XP SP2, latest MPC, ffdshow - all fresh install. Just tried Haali renderer (mostly out of curiosity) on my new 1920x1080 screen
1) Whet set to 100% zoom it occupies only half of the screen on 1080p material
2) When 720p is set to full screen - all lines have the horrible jagged edges

None of the above seen in VMR9.

Do I need some special tweaks to make it work? Couldn't find anything on the first page in Q/A.

[Yong]

Radeon 2600xt, Core2, XP SP2, latest MPC, ffdshow - all fresh install. Just tried Haali renderer (mostly out of curiosity) on my new 1920x1080 screen
1) Whet set to 100% zoom it occupies only half of the screen on 1080p material
2) When 720p is set to full screen - all lines have the horrible jagged edges

None of the above seen in VMR9.

Do I need some special tweaks to make it work? Couldn't find anything on the first page in Q/A.
is the video look like this?
http://xs322.xs.to/xs322/07524/shakugan.jpg
warning: 1mb jpeg file :p

im using 2600xt too, VMR9 Renderless have the same problem but less "lines" than HR and EVR custom presenter.
those lines always and only appear on highlighted area IIRC when the video is zoom to fullscreen mode, especially the video resolution is 720x480.(can anyone confirm this?)

[vortex_hl]

is the video look like this?
http://xs322.xs.to/xs322/07524/shakugan.jpg
warning: 1mb jpeg file :p

im using 2600xt too, VMR9 Renderless have the same problem but less "lines" than HR and EVR custom presenter.
those lines always and only appear on highlighted area IIRC when the video is zoom to fullscreen mode, especially the video resolution is 720x480.(can anyone confirm this?)

same problem here (hd2600 pro). this problem occurs when re-sizer use pixel shader 2.0.

[Shakey_Jake33]

I can't actually remember if I've posted this already, apologies if so. This is more about Haali Splitter than Haali Renderer, but they seem to be one and the same package anyway. When installing the Mpeg PS splitter, works fine except for anything with PCM audio, where I get no sound. Works fine using mpc's internal spliter. Dunno if this is a known bug.

[Kado]

The internal h264 decoder does not decode video in my case. I can see the subtitles though... also whey you configure it the boxes don't remain ticked.

Oops, I posted in the wrong tread... sorry about that.

[foxyshadis]

I can't actually remember if I've posted this already, apologies if so. This is more about Haali Splitter than Haali Renderer, but they seem to be one and the same package anyway. When installing the Mpeg PS splitter, works fine except for anything with PCM audio, where I get no sound. Works fine using mpc's internal spliter. Dunno if this is a known bug.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=80762 ;)

Cross-pollination's not a huge deal though.

[Shakey_Jake33]

^I guess that's why I didn't find it in this topic when I looked for it! Didn't think to look there tbh!

[leeperry]

hey guys I've been playing around with EVR on XP SP2, and I was wondering if Haali could check a few things :

1)-provide automatic 601/709 depending on the movie resolution. something like >1000 horizontal pixels : BT709, and <1000 : BT601.

right now, it's my ATI drivers that do this job with EVR, and it's very handy to have it done automatically.

2)-check the BT709 matrix.....because my ATI drivers do not use the same as HR....and theirs looks better IMHO, a bit more yellow/green.

here's with HR in 709 :
http://thumbnails.keepmyfile.com/42/119910234672d428.gif (http://www.keepmyfile.com/image/72d4282077994)

with HR in 601 :
http://thumbnails.keepmyfile.com/42/11991023461bb895.gif (http://www.keepmyfile.com/image/1bb8952077995)

with my ATI drivers with EVR in automatic 709 :
http://thumbnails.keepmyfile.com/42/11991023471f79f4.gif (http://www.keepmyfile.com/image/1f79f42077996)

3)-accepting YV12 as input like EVR, so there's no lossy YV12>YUY2 conversion.

all in all I love HR, but it's very annoying to switch manually between 601/709 when it could be automatic.....and the BT709 matrix doesn't look as natural as the ATI's.

Thank you for your time,

[Peuj]

New Haali Media Splitter version:

http://haali.cs.msu.ru/mkv/

# 29/12/2007

* Fixed items:
o Fixed a glitch in red/blue shift code and extended the maximum shift range


# 26/12/2007

* New Features:
o Added V_MJPEG support
o Implemented slightly faster red/blue planes shift
o Added more stable bicubic upscaling when PS 3 are available
* Fixed items:
o Restored Windows 2000 compatibility
o Fixed audio tracks stopping too early in files with ordered chapters

[sarah99]

I have just discovered that versions of Haali splitter after v1.7.189.11 will not allow playback of HD-DVD .EVO files containing MPEG-4 AVC encoded content

For HD-DVDs and the .EVO files
Haali 1.7.401.3 doesn't play MPEG-4 AVC
Haali 1.7.359.22 doesn't play MPEG-4 AVC
Haali 1.7.189.11 does play MPEG-4 AVC

These HD-DVDs include
Transformers, Star Trek, Shooter

[leeperry]

if only it was possible to make the BT601/709 selection automatic depending on horizontal size........but I guess that's never gonna happen anyhow :(

also, SD movies(512*384 or 640*480) look terribly pixelated with lot of jaggies/interlacing artefacts after a few seconds :o

original size :

http://thumbnails.keepmyfile.com/42/1199486552b678ed.gif (http://www.keepmyfile.com/image/b678ed2087086)

720p upscale with HR :

http://thumbnails.keepmyfile.com/42/119948655273af1f.gif (http://www.keepmyfile.com/image/73af1f2087087)

I've tried to play around with the sharpness level to no available.

the OSD says "SS".

720p movies look fine, but the internal bicubic resize of HR looks more like "fast bilinear" to me :confused:

[cyberbeing]

I also have what seems like the same bug when resizing 640x480 and 640x360 videos in haali renderer and feeding it RGB32 (blocking and jaggedness). I don't get a problem when outputting YV12 or YUY2, resizing to fullscreen, or using a different source resolution other then the two mentioned. Enabling resizing to a different resolution in ffdshow and then disabling it when a video is playing seems to fix the bug temporarily.

The bug seems to have first appeared in the 12/26/2007 build which was the one haali introduced "more stable PS3.0 bicubic upscaling" and I would assume that is what is to blame considering my video card (7800GTX 512) supports PS3.0. The 11/18/2007 build of dxr.dll doesn't have this bug.

[leeperry]

yeah I think this is the same bug

I use HR in YUY2 on XP SP2 on a ATI HD2600 PCI-E, using 7.11 WHQL drivers

as soon as the internal bicubic resizer is used, I get very ugly video quality.

it's always been the case, but I thought that was my videocard drivers doing an awful job.

[Rash]

OK I've tested extensively all the renderers available, you simply can't beat HR butter smoothness.
That's interesting. Here EVR is much smoother than HR.

[leeperry]

yes you're right.

actually EVR is using some amazing process that gives a stronger 3D depth impression than any other renderer.

EVR support in KMPlayer was very poor, so my tests results were flawed.

in MPC HC, EVR looks smooth as butter and most impressive.

and with EVR, I can let my videocard drivers manage the BT601/709 issue automatically..........which is really great too :D

[Rash]

I believe that's because we're talking about EVR Custom. As far as I know, the player itself takes care of the rendering in this case. So it is not surprising that EVR Custom is different on two different players.

I had forgotten you use KMPlayer. I use MPC. ;)

[kutjong]

Any chance of getting improvements on DVD playback? I mean, can't the buffer go up once you start to play the movie and then go back to 4 frames in menus? If you open up a sinlge .vob of the main movie, buffering works normally, and deinterlacing is butter smooth on my laptop. With a 4 frame buffer, it's not capable of this. :(

[leeperry]

it's meant to be like this to provide perfect compatiblity with the "DVD Navigator" filter.

[iron2000]

For one of my lower quality XVID video EVR shows them with faded colors while HR maintains the same "black is not grey" colors.

Seems like aside from HQ H264 files, the colors seem faded in EVR.
Even in HQ files, HR produces more natural colors to me, like in HR red looks red but in EVR its a bit bright a little near orange.

With all the colors thingy, I don't know which should be the true colors anymore.

For the ATI driver, I only have the driver installed.
Didn't install the CCC.

[kutjong]

it's meant to be like this to provide perfect compatiblity with the "DVD Navigator" filter.
Yes, I know that, but why can't the buffer be upped when you start playing the main movie? If I open the main movie manually in MPC, the buffer is at my preffered 128 MB and deinterlacing works perfectly. If I play the main movie through the menus, it will play with a 4 frame buffer and deinterlacing is choppy. Does the DVD navigator require the buffer to be at 4 frames even during main movie playback?

[clsid]

I assume the problem is that there is no way for the renderer to detect whether you are viewing a menu or the movie at any given point in time.

Perhaps a key combo could be added that allows a user to manually override the buffer limitation. Navigate the menu, start the menu, hit key combo, enjoy.

[CruNcher]

Haali i get a Problem with your Splitter and Cyberlinks Decoder it seems to not accept Matroskas AR and also doesn't get the Bitstreams (AVC) SAR and so fallsback to 1:1 playback :(
With CoreAVC 1.6 and your Splitter ofcourse there aren't such problems. Ok i found out that Mkvmerge strips the bitstreams sar away so it's not a bug.

[CruNcher]

Haali could you please add into the Splitter configuration the default extensions that are by standard used in your splitter like .EVO so the user can disable your Splitter for a given extension easily?

[fastplayer]

Using the Haali renderer, MPC zooms a 352x264 DivX5 video to 200% upon start. Zooming it back to 100% via ALT+2 doesn't work. Auto-zoom is set to 100% in MPC though (Options --> Playback). This doesn't happen with anyone of the other renderers, so I guess this is HR-related. :confused:
I'm using the latest Haali version, clsid's latest MPC build with its internal AVI splitter and ffdshow build 1827. This is on XP with a Radeon X800GTO and the latest CAT drivers.

Link to video (15,7MB):
http://www.slobodnadalmacija.hr/20051203/images/ciovo.avi

Edit: Happens on other files with similar resolution too (MPEG1 352x240). Zooming "back" to 50% in MPC sets the resolution to its original size.

[Adub]

Check your ffdshow settings. Make sure it isn't causing the zoom. The renderer shouldn't be doing anything that increases your video size.

[fastplayer]

Check your ffdshow settings. Make sure it isn't causing the zoom. The renderer shouldn't be doing anything that increases your video size.
Resize & aspect is disabled. Only thing that is enabled, is subtitles support.

Can you or anyone else at least reproduce the issue?

Edit: Should've searched harder...
Video size that the player sees is adjusted to make the window fit inside the screen (I hate large windows that are not entirely visible). Same thing happens with smaller clips, they are enlarged to be at least 400x300.

[Miryan]

Maybe someone can help, its a little bit odd. Haali renderer does some tearing on my MPC HC, but, in Kmplayer: No tearing, everything is fine. What did I do wrong with MPC?

[MasterNobody]

As I known, Haali Render almost never drop frames and in most situation it is good. But there are situations when I prefer the render drop frames instead of trying to play video at increased fps for jitter compensation (synchronization with audio) because it need smaller CPU/GPU time and so compensate it quicker without the risk of further jitter increase. So I ask to make the option to allow frame dropping when jitter exceeds some threshold (user editable), for example 1000 ms. May be I am wrong and this never will help than explain me why.

[Shinigami-Sama]

hmm
I've noticed people mentioning how HR is supposed to be better than VRM9, however when ever I use HR(grabbed the latest splitter a week or two ago) it uses 5-40% more CPU, normally 15% more on both ASP/AVC content, anime and film
I did a quick run through this thread and didn't noticed an answer

this is on an AMD 3500+ newcastle @ 2.2ghz with a 200M, MPC-HC from a month and a half ago give or take a week
it also tears more on certain 3d sequences
I have yet to try EVR though...

[chros]

@Shinigami-Sama: and on what video card?

[Shinigami-Sama]

@Shinigami-Sama: and on what video card?


this is on an AMD 3500+ newcastle @ 2.2ghz with a 200M, MPC-HC

so
ATI mobility 200m

[chros]

ATI mobility 200m
Hhmmm ...
http://www.notebookcheck.net/ATI-Radeon-Xpress-200M.2175.0.html

"ATI Radeon Xpress 200M is the shared memory integrated graphic card from ATI. It is a derivate of the Mobility Radeon X300 graphic card, but slower because of the lack of own memory and slower clock speed."

Maybe that's the problem: shared memory !
If it's the case, you should use another renderer ...

[Shinigami-Sama]

Hhmmm ...
http://www.notebookcheck.net/ATI-Radeon-Xpress-200M.2175.0.html

"ATI Radeon Xpress 200M is the shared memory integrated graphic card from ATI. It is a derivate of the Mobility Radeon X300 graphic card, but slower because of the lack of own memory and slower clock speed."

Maybe that's the problem: shared memory !
If it's the case, you should use another renderer ...

only when in UDM mode
its in sideport ( on-chip memory )
128megs dedicated on chip memory

[bmcgs]

Hi there everyone, first post on this excelent forum!

I'm running Zoomplayer 5.02 with XP Pro + SP2 and I've tried HR to check if it could solve my problem but it didn't.

When playing any kind of movie (mpeg4, mpeg2, h.264) the HR crashes Zoomplayer in fullscreen only. It also happens with VMR9 renderless (which I guess it could be normal since Zoomplayer indicates it is experimental). Overlay (mixer or not) in full screen doesn't fill the screen with the movie, only a small part. Only VMR9 Windowed mode works flawlessly.

From what I've read it seems that HR is the best renderer. So, I guess could it be my problem only but I'm really hoping that it might be something else! :)

Codecs installed : besides the default ones, Haali media splitter, ffdshow latest version, Core AVC, DScaler 0.0.8, XVid 1.1.3 and DirectVobsub. Zoomplayer is configured for Smartplay, Dscaler for mpeg2 sources + ffdshow postprocessing, CoreAVC for h.264 and vc-1 sources and ffdshow audio and video for everything else. Let me highlight the fact that every single movie crashes using HR or VMR9 renderless.

My video card is a 8800 GT with the latest WHQL drivers.

Can someone help me? Thanks!

[clsid]

Update your graphics driver. Don't use old WHQL stuff. Just get the latest one from the nvidia website.

[bmcgs]

thanks for the reply!

I have the latest drivers, 168.21 if I'm not mistaken. Also did manage to run 3dmark06 well so I don't think there could be a problem there but I'm not sure what tests should be done to check if everything is ok. Dxdiag doesn't report any problems, DirectX9c installed and running (at least COD4 doesn't complain!).

[clsid]

The fact that 3dmark runs ok means nothing.

You should try a different player, like Media Player Classic, and see if that also crashes with certain renderers. To rule out ZoomPlayer as being the culprit.

If 169.21 doesn't solve the problem, then either use an older version or a newer beta version:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_169.28.html