Haali Renderer [Archive] - Page 8

3ngel

16th January 2007, 20:19

Haali, in this case apart the fact that you at least would do provide an "alternative" to the behavour of the renderer, like an option to "auto-resize" or not, the resizing doesn't work.
I'm on a monitor 1280*1024 so on a 1920*1080 i expext 1280*720, but i get 1024*576 that is much more less than the entire available screen. Moreover on a 1280*720 video i would expect no resize, but i get a 800*470, so i say your method doesn't work very well.
In the end i say your "resize policy" can be respectable, but i think for a serious program an option to "choose" your policy (or not like me) is a minimum request. Don't you think so?

Haali

16th January 2007, 20:55

3ngel

16th January 2007, 21:30

For example, i use to have NO border around the window so in this case it would be perfectly fine for me.
Regarding tastes, well each one has his own, but the important thing is that you let each one choose what he prefers :)

EDIT: Moreover, one that choose to have the original screen size it would be for testing or other purposes too, so please let choose it :)

Egh

16th January 2007, 21:36

You'll get 1280x720 if you go fullscreen in the player. If I left it at default 1280x720, there'd be no space for the border around player window. But do you really like it when parts of player UI and video go off-screen? Of course ppl have different tastes, but this one is really surprising to me.

Why it can't use autofit to screen size like MPC does? In one of the resizing modes.

BTW, "Touch the window from inside" MPC option doesn't work for Haali renderer at all, but does nice job on VMR9 :)

aydc

25th January 2007, 09:52

Haali, when is the next version coming? It's been a month since the last one. We're getting impatient. We need nightly builds dammit. :) :)

madshi

29th January 2007, 12:13

I'm one of those people with major tearing problems. The funny thing is: Tearing doesn't seem to be as bad (or existant at all!) on my LCD monitor. But as soon as I playback the movie on my secondary DVI output (plasma) the tearing is terrible.

@Haali, just a thought: Is it possible that your rendering is synchronized to the main monitor, even if the renderer is located on the secondary monitor? My LCD is driven with 60Hz, my plasma with 25Hz. This might explain why I'm getting so much tearing on my plasma, but barely any tearing on the LCD.

No tearing at all with VMR9 on either monitor.

Keepitsimple

29th January 2007, 14:05

It would be cool if you could choose between different scalers with the new version.

KoD

29th January 2007, 15:27

There is only one scaler, a bicubic one. Nothing to choose.

Egh

29th January 2007, 23:01

There is only one scaler, a bicubic one. Nothing to choose.

Question to gurus: is it possible to implement reasonably fast spline or lanczons resizing on GPU?

Haali

29th January 2007, 23:21

They'd work fine on modern GPUs. Another question is whether they provide noticeably better quality.

Seb.26

30th January 2007, 10:20

They'd work fine on modern GPUs. Another question is whether they provide noticeably better quality.
IMO : Lanczos is better than Bicubic ( in FFDShow at least )

And what about a "limited sharpen like" with PS ?!
... and more : a 3Ddenoiser, not possible with MPC, but with 3 or 4 textures ( frame n-1, frame n, frame n+1 ... ) it can be easly made I think ...

... if you want I've wrote some smalls MPC PS filters : http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29814317

The best of the best could be to offer some frames as texture ( they are buffered in GC so ... ), and allow user to custom the PS script ( like in MPC, but more powerfull ; )

Keepitsimple

30th January 2007, 14:55

They'd work fine on modern GPUs. Another question is whether they provide noticeably better quality.
I use lanczos when I upscale in ffdshow and I feel that there is a difference. Downscaling isnt noticeable.

What kind of a gpu is necessary for hardware acc? I believe I use my cpu right now.

Antilope.CZ

31st January 2007, 19:01

This renderer is simply awesome! Great work.

But the tearing issue drives me crazy. I use MPC on secondary monitor (DualHead; LCD TV) and nothing helps. Tried HW Vsync, SW Vsync (shutters), locking back-buffer, changing refresh rate to 60Hz on both monitors. (NVIDIA card)

Also DVD mode in MPC freezes when I attempt to seek, but I can live with that.

:o

MacAddict

31st January 2007, 22:25

anonymez

1st February 2007, 03:31

new release (http://haali.cs.msu.ru/mkv/), thanks haali :)

btw, it's 2007 now ;)

NanoBot

1st February 2007, 09:07

Hi Folks und hi, Haali,

first of all many thanks for the new version of the haali splitter, which should fix the problem with wrapped PTS in transport streams. A few days before I had a stream like that, recorded with my DVB-C card, und ran into problems when I tried to convert it into a matroska file. For now, I was able to test the new version with a transport stream ( MPG2 video ) which contains a PTS rewrapp, and in worked fine. I will test it again with a TS containing h.264 video as soon as possible.

Second, a question:

The change history on haalis website from 26.10.2006 tells me:

"[Matroska] Much improved mkv2vfr utility now handles AVC video and correctly writes AVI files larger than 2GB, it is now included in the splitter package."

Unfortunately both, the older version of mkv2vfr and the one included in the newest package, for me do not handle matroska files containing a h.264 video stream > 2 GByte correctly. In my tests, the resulting avi always had a maximum size of about 2 GByte, while the video is > 6 Gbyte in real. Nevertheless, the timestamp list generated by mkv2vfr indicates that the whole matroska file has been processed. And of course I used a ntfs formatted partition for the avi.

I am asking for this function because some of my recordings from DVB, which are TS containing h.264 video, seem to have dropped or duplicated frames, making them vfr. And converting from VFR to CFR is only possible with the help of the mkv2vfr tool.

C.U. NanoBot

aydc

1st February 2007, 12:20

Haali! I love you. (in a very manly way :))

The new release is great. I used to feel seeking within avi files were much slower compared to VMR9 but it seems fast enough now. The new version seems faster and more stable. Fantastic job. ::thumbsup::

Here's a feature request: Could you add some color controls to the filter control panel? On some players, color controls work only with VMR and overlay modes so we need to control the colors within Haali Renderer. Some movies are just too dark. :)

Seb.26

1st February 2007, 12:50

new release (http://haali.cs.msu.ru/mkv/), thanks haali :)
btw, it's 2007 now ;)
Thanks to anonymez for the info ...
... BIG Thanks to Haali for this new release ( not tested yet but I'm sure it will be great ! :D )

[edit]
# Video Renderer now uses multiple passes instead of complex shaders, and works on PS 1.1 hardware. Bicubic scaling and deinterlacing are available staring with PS 1.4.

Is it faster too on just for the compatibilty ? ;)

Peuj

1st February 2007, 13:18

Thanks for the new version !!

Can somebody explain me what's the use of:
* Buffers: more you have and more the load of the video is quicker and so there are less lags?
* Frames: no idea ?
* Sharpness: I though a sharpness filter was to increase details of the image (?) but as it's a negative value does that means that it's to decrease the details ?
* Show TimeStamps: don't know timestamp :(

thanks

foxyshadis

1st February 2007, 14:36

I guess you could think of sharpness as a "smoothness", where 0 is bilinear and -1 is approximately nearest neighbor. You can find more details of the bicubic (mitchell) algorithm online if you need them.

Frames is just a maximum # of frames to buffer, if there's enough memory.

If you turn on timestamps it's obvious what it is, just a subtitle of the time (position) of each frame in seconds.

Seb.26

1st February 2007, 15:10

IMO :
* Buffers : The amount of Graphic RAM the render will use
* Frames : limit the number of frames allowed in buffer
* Sharpness : setup the resize filter
* Show TimeStamps : the "time position" of the displayed frame

Peuj

1st February 2007, 16:51

Thanks foxyshadis and Seb.26 for the details.

I think (hope) I get it.

So about Buffers and Frames if they are set to the max the playback should be better ?

About Sharpness, I've tried on some videos but if I set to 0 or -1, I see no difference. Did I miss something ? Just to understand :)

Thanks

Seb.26

1st February 2007, 17:31

About Sharpness, I've tried on some videos but if I set to 0 or -1, I see no difference. Did I miss something ? Just to understand :)
Open more your eyes ! :D :D :D

More seriously : your can better see the difference on edge and on smal details : they look "sharpen" ...

@Haali : when the resize/sharpen is done for an entering frame ?
( just before the frame is buffered or just before the frame is displayed ? )

Peuj

1st February 2007, 17:35

Open more your eyes ! :D :D :D

More seriously : your can better see the difference on edge and on smal details : they look "sharpen" ...

ok i'll try that ;)

Keepitsimple

1st February 2007, 23:26

Open more your eyes ! :D :D :D

More seriously : your can better see the difference on edge and on smal details : they look "sharpen" ...

@Haali : when the resize/sharpen is done for an entering frame ?
( just before the frame is buffered or just before the frame is displayed ? )
I tried to test this with some images. However all images that I saved came out badly distorted. Here is a link to a picture thats supposed to be Christian Bale in Equilibrium http://www.tveit.se/pontus/sharp.jpg. This happened with haali renderer but not with WMR 9 renderless. The method I used was in mpc and "File menu -> Save image".

cyberbeing

2nd February 2007, 07:36

I tried to test this with some images. However all images that I saved came out badly distorted. Here is a link to a picture thats supposed to be Christian Bale in Equilibrium http://www.tveit.se/pontus/sharp.jpg. This happened with haali renderer but not with WMR 9 renderless. The method I used was in mpc and "File menu -> Save image".

I tried the same thing with Equilibrium (1280x544) using Haali renderer and save image in mpc but I didn't have that issue.

@Haali thanks for the new build. The tearing issue I told you about (during fast motion scenes) is now completely gone and in general it seems like motion feels a lot smoother :D

Warpman

2nd February 2007, 11:35

first: http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/2974/haalibugok6.th.png (http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=haalibugok6.png)

second: http://xrmb2.net/img/images/635087.png

first image is rendered with haali
settings buffer:16mb frames: 40 sharpness -1

second is wmr9 renderless @bilinear -1

the source is an 640 x 480 xvid

As you can see the edges and lines in the first image look strange, this did not happen und the old build

i have a geforce 5900xt 128mb if thats important ...

Seb.26

2nd February 2007, 11:40

second is wmr9 renderless @bilinear -1
What do you mean by "Bilinear -1" ?

Try to compare same frame ... your stream is interlaced ?!

Seb.26

2nd February 2007, 11:46

WHAOOOooOOoo !!! :D :D :D

How smooth the playback is now !!! ...
... Never obtain that even with Overlay+Reclock ...

:thanks:

This render is about to become (IMO) the ultimate render !!!

NB: I use MPC with :
DScaler(YU2) -> FFDShow(resize)(RGB32) -> Haali's Render

The only "bad" points are:

> seeking freeze the video...

> rarely, some tearing can be seen ( very rarely but ... )

> "sometimes", the playback never start ?! :eek: ... ( reality is more "sometimes playback start ... lol )
... MPC's "client surface" isn't painted ... CPU are quiet, HDD too ... ?!

And the more strange is that the problem occur 2, 3 times, and ... playback start ... after closing MPC, problem for some times ... test done always on same file ( but the problem occur with all files here ) ... maybe my setup ?! ... to be continued ...

An idea ?

Seb.26

2nd February 2007, 11:48

-- Double post --

Warpman

2nd February 2007, 12:19

What do you mean by "Bilinear -1" ?

Try to compare same frame ... your stream is interlaced ?!

ahh, my bad, i meant bicubic -1 selected in mpcs renderer properties

i know its not the same frame >.> but thats kinda difficult in mpc fullscreenmode ;)
and no my stream is progressive

it appears always!, not only in 1 video... and ffshow outputs yuv2 (forgot that as well)

Seb.26

2nd February 2007, 13:11

ahh, my bad, i meant bicubic -1
Ok ... :D ... just to be sure ...

i know its not the same frame >.> but thats kinda difficult in mpc fullscreenmode ;)
Tip: Switch to fullscreen and press Ctrl+G ... :sly: ... ( I think this will work ... :D ... )

And about your "problem" ... I thing it's due to the new way used to resize ( multi pass with simple PS vs single pass with complex shader ) ... try to reduce the sharp value ( -0.75 ie ) maybe you will retrieve the same picture than older release ...

About Sharpness, I've tried on some videos but if I set to 0 or -1, I see no difference. Did I miss something ? Just to understand :)
Also, don't forget to press the "Apply" button ... :D

Seb.26

2nd February 2007, 13:13

--- Too much post from me : muxing ---

Warpman

2nd February 2007, 13:15

And about your "problem" ... I thing it's due to the new way used to resize ( multi pass with simple PS vs single pass with complex shader ) ... try to reduce the sharp value ( -0.75 ie ) maybe you will retrieve the same picture than older release ...

well -0 looks _the same_! so i guess resizing is broken on my card...

tekNerd

2nd February 2007, 13:35

well -0 looks _the same_! so i guess resizing is broken on my card...

Mine too.

Seb.26

2nd February 2007, 14:06

well -0 looks _the same_! so i guess resizing is broken on my card...
Mine too.

Sound strange ... since shader level is "lower" ( PS1.1 now vs PS2.0 with older release )

Video Renderer now uses multiple passes instead of complex shaders, and works on PS 1.1 hardware. Bicubic scaling and deinterlacing are available staring with PS 1.4.

I'm sure it's working @ home for me ... what CG have you ?!
( NB: but I think the setup isn't real time ... press APPLY to see new render ... )

Tips : to see the change, you can enable OSD in FFDShow : 0 to -1 change can easly be seen on font ...

LoRd_MuldeR

2nd February 2007, 14:48

aydc

6th February 2007, 09:10

> seeking freeze the video...

I have that problem as well. While every new version seems to seek faster, seeking performance is still well below that of VMR modes.

Some people watch the movie from start to finish in one go. For such people, seeking isn't important. For people like me who jump back and forth all the time, do slow motion, fast forward, jump back again, jump forward again etc. etc., seeking performance is important. On high resolution divx movies with ZoomPlayer, Haali takes around 1,5 seconds to show the picture when seeking. That's on a Core2 Duo system. In comparison, VMR9 takes 0,3-0,4 seconds.

I'm nitpicking here though, it's a fantastic renderer. Just a bit more speed wouldn't hurt though. :)

Seb.26

6th February 2007, 09:51

I have that problem as well. While every new version seems to seek faster, seeking performance is still well below that of VMR modes.
[...]
That's on a Core2 Duo system. In comparison, VMR9 takes 0,3-0,4 seconds.
Hum ... not like me ... if the only thing I have to do is wait 3s, I will happy ... for me, the problem is more that I have to kill MPC and relaunch it ...

But (I don't know why) sometimes, I haven't any problem ... and sometimes, the render don't want to work ... :confused:

KoD

6th February 2007, 11:56

Seb.26 - are you using the tryouts ffdshow ? What happens if you disable queueing in it ?

Seb.26

6th February 2007, 12:43

Seb.26 - are you using the tryouts ffdshow ? What happens if you disable queueing in it ?
Yes ! ( don't remember exactly what version, but a 2007 one for sure )

Hum ... queue ?! ... for sure I use this (great) feature with VMR9, but don't remember if I have disabled it or not ...

What is better ? ( enable queue or not ? ) ... I think FFDShow's queue isn't really usefull due to the buffer inside the render ... do you think the problem can be from queue ?!

I must say that H'sgR ( Haali's great Render ;) ) almost work now, maybe I have disabled queue ... I will control this ... need to test it more, but it work ...
( I use it in my HTPC ... )

The main problem ( 4 me ) is the tearing in the bottom of the screen ...
... I can't undestand why there is some tearing ... I haven't any tearing in games ( when vsync is ON ) ...
... so there is why in Haali's render ? ( the render thread don't wait vsync before swap front buffer & back buffer ?! )

Anyway, I will test it more ... by watching a film tonight !!!

Haali

7th February 2007, 02:07

The renderer uses standard directx Present() calls, all vsync stuff is handled internally by directx, unless you enable soft vsync that is not recommended anymore.

sillKotscha

7th February 2007, 03:49

more speed wouldn't hurt though. :)

in MPC disable: "Lock back-buffer before presenting"...

futurex

7th February 2007, 06:25

Hi,

I just installed and tried the renderer and can use it with MPC, but on the homepage it says deinterlacing is available. Where? MPC's shaders do not work

Haali

7th February 2007, 06:45

Deinterlacing is activated automatically when the video decoder says so (e.g. "DirectShow deinterlacing" in coreavc).

futurex

7th February 2007, 07:09

Thankyou Haali :D

But not sure i understand, so if I am using MPC's built in MPEG-2 codec, how would i tell it to use your renderer's deinterlacer instead of its own?

Would it be faster since it uses shaders and thus my video card?

Seb.26

7th February 2007, 10:46

The renderer uses standard directx Present() calls, all vsync stuff is handled internally by directx, unless you enable soft vsync that is not recommended anymore.
OK, thanks ... so I will force vsync in directx setup, disable "soft vsync" and "lock back buffer" in MPC ...

Anyway, your render have impress a lot of people on french HTPC forum, it's a fantastic render !!! :) ... every day more and more people try it ... and keep it !

So thanks a lot for your hard work ... and continue like that :D :p
... And it's true Haali : we love you !!! ;)

Peuj

7th February 2007, 11:18

Hi,

Something "strange" (at least for me) with Haali renderer:

I'm watching this video:
http://hannibalrisingexclusive.com/quicktime/hannibalrising_origin-of-evil_320x240.mov

Format : QuickTime
Format/Info : Quictime movie
Format/Family : MPEG-4
File size : 11.1 MiB
PlayTime : 5mn 21s
Bit rate : 290 Kbps
StreamSize : 138 KiB
Encoded date : UTC 2007-01-27 08:20:08
Tagged date : UTC 2007-01-26 23:20:17
Writing application : Sorenson Squeeze 4.5

Video #0
Codec : H.264
Codec/Info : H.264 (3GPP)
PlayTime : 5mn 21s
Bit rate : 223 Kbps
Width : 320 pixels
Height : 240 pixels
Aspect ratio : 4/3
Frame rate : 30.000 fps
Minimum frame rate : 30.000 fps
Maximum frame rate : 31.579 fps
StreamSize : 8.54 MiB
Encoded date : UTC 2007-01-25 19:20:11
Tagged date : UTC 2007-01-26 23:20:18

Audio #0
Codec : AAC
Codec/Family : AAC
PlayTime : 5mn 21s
Bit rate : 64 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Resolution : 16 bits
StreamSize : 2.45 MiB
Encoded date : UTC 2007-01-25 19:20:11
Tagged date : UTC 2007-01-26 23:20:17

When I use Haali Renderless I get this image:
Setting with Haali: buffers (256), frames (256), sharpness(0) or sharpness(-1).
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2909/haalior1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

When I use VMR9 Renderless I get this image:
Setting with VMR9 renderless: Render 3D + Bilinear PS 2.0
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/9794/vmr9renderlessem8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I'm using the latest MPC (mplayerc.rev611-3.2) from celtic_druid and ffdshow 885. Output with ffdshow set to RGB32. And no filters enable with ffdshow.

I 've tried with the sharpness set to 0 or -1 without any difference. And before Seb.26 asks yes I have press the Apply button, close MPC and then played the video. ;)

So in case nobody notice, my "problem" is that with Halli I have pixels, the image is less smooth than with VMR9.
I though something could be done by playing with the sharpness but it seems that not? Is there something wrong with the sharpness or is this the normal image with Haali and nothing can be done?

Thanks