View Full Version : Haali Renderer
@Peuj
That file plays just fine on my system, using latest MPC, ffdshow rev1125 (using wmv9 codec instead of libavcodec), and latest haali renderer.
Pentium D @ 3.6ghz
GF 6800GS
OK Thanks I'll check which codec I'm using but I have too the latest MPC and ffdshow.
Maybe it's again something wrong with my FX5200 Video Card and Haali renderer :)
My problem with image blockiness with Haali is getting on my nerves. To better explain the problem, I made comparison screenshots. Please click on the following thumbnail to see the big image:
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/4482/comparisonwd6.th.jpg (http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=comparisonwd6.jpg)
This is a 512 x 216, 23.978 fps DivX movie. This problem can be seen with all movies, however with low res movies like this one it's more apparent. Sharpness slider must be at minimum to see this clearly. If I set sharpness to maximum, the blockiness decreases, but it's still there.
Any ideas how to solve it? Can you please open a low res movie, set the sharpness slider to minimum an tell me if you experience anything like this?
Any ideas how to solve it? Can you please open a low res movie, set the sharpness slider to minimum an tell me if you experience anything like this?
What's your graphics card? Have you set all it's 3D quality options to the max in it's control panel?
np: Pole - Schöner Land (Steingarten)
What's your graphics card? Have you set all it's 3D quality options to the max in it's control panel?
I'm using an nvidia 7900 GS. I've tried various sets of drivers on both XP and Vista. I always get the blocky picture. I played a lot with driver settings with no result.
Hey guys. I just did some testing on Haali again and I must say, it is great! Not so long ago I tested it and posted my results in this thread but I remember I still preferred VMR7 (XP Default). But now Haali is great (not the same issues I had back then) and superb image quality! :D I'm on Vista.
Anyway, I have what may be a very stupid question. Is it possible to make WMP and Windows Media Center to use Haali Renderer? A registry key, maybe? I'm having an awful problem with WMP inserting gray (16) bars in order to compensate for the TV YUV range. It is a nice feature to hide the bars and produce a homogeneous image, but since I can correct this problem on ffshow, the feature adds a problem. Have a look (this was taken with ffdshow levels and RGB HQ output).
http://rash.apanela.com/images/lost_color.png
Too bad I can't use PureVideo with Haali, though. :( PureVideo produces awsome quality with the infamous TV color range.
Thanks a lot for your help. And thank you Haali for this great renderer. ;)
@Rash
KMP Player has a system filter manager that can change filter priority system wide. You should try that.
Seb.26
6th May 2007, 13:38
My problem with image blockiness with Haali is getting on my nerves. To better explain the problem, I made comparison screenshots. Please click on the following thumbnail to see the big image:
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/4482/comparisonwd6.th.jpg (http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=comparisonwd6.jpg)
First : why colors aren't same in both pictures ?!
First : why colors aren't same in both pictures ?!
VMR9 is having the usual 0-255 vs 16-235 problems. That has nothing to do with jagged edges in the picture. Now that is cleared, do you have a solution?
I will give it a try Kado, thank you.
Humm, just one more question (in the wrong thread, I know). Can I force MPC to use PowerDVD video decoding filters? If I can I might get PureVideo with Haali to work together. :)
Seb.26
6th May 2007, 17:38
VMR9 is having the usual 0-255 vs 16-235 problems. That has nothing to do with jagged edges in the picture. Now that is cleared, do you have a solution?
What is the frame format entering HR & VRM9 ? ( YU2 I guess )
( if you use FFDShow, please activate OSD and report data ;) ... the same in HR :) )
@Rash
Yes you can force it, go to options, external filters, add them and put them in your preferred order then click on prefer for those filters, remember to put hardware acceleration enabled in the filter properties.
Haali renderer does not support DXVA so PureVideo cannot be used. VMR9 supports DXVA 1.0 and EVR is supposed to support DXVA 2.0 eventually.
DeathWolf
6th May 2007, 21:22
My problem with image blockiness with Haali is getting on my nerves. To better explain the problem, I made comparison screenshots. Please click on the following thumbnail to see the big image:
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/4482/comparisonwd6.th.jpg (http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=comparisonwd6.jpg)
This is a 512 x 216, 23.978 fps DivX movie. This problem can be seen with all movies, however with low res movies like this one it's more apparent. Sharpness slider must be at minimum to see this clearly. If I set sharpness to maximum, the blockiness decreases, but it's still there.
Any ideas how to solve it? Can you please open a low res movie, set the sharpness slider to minimum an tell me if you experience anything like this?
This sounds to me like the resize method used is different.
Did you take the screenshot while resized?
leeperry
7th May 2007, 01:23
I got a 6800Ultra with the latest official XP drivers....I've never encountered pixelisation...I don't watch super lowres videos either ;)
and I really love the BT.709 option, it makes the colors sparkling.........kick ass :D
@Rash
Yes you can force it, go to options, external filters, add them and put them in your preferred order then click on prefer for those filters, remember to put hardware acceleration enabled in the filter properties.
Haali renderer does not support DXVA so PureVideo cannot be used. VMR9 supports DXVA 1.0 and EVR is supposed to support DXVA 2.0 eventually.
Well, I know. But I can at least have some deinterlacing done in the GPU. Well, I did it and it is working great! :D Thank you. I just couldn't get the PowerDVD Audio decoder to work on MPC. MPC reports a "Macrovision failed" on a region 0 DVD I have. It works on KMPlayer, though. But on KMPlayer I can't get PowerDVD and Haali to work together. :(
What is the frame format entering HR & VRM9 ? ( YU2 I guess )
( if you use FFDShow, please activate OSD and report data ;) ... the same in HR :) )
Input colorspace: YUY2
I tried changing the output colorspace with ffdshow before feeding it to Haali, but no colorspace I tried makes any difference to the blocky image.
This sounds to me like the resize method used is different.
Did you take the screenshot while resized?
Yeah, I made the screenshot with MediaPlayerClassic at full screen mode. Returning to 100% size windowed mode doesn't make a difference however.
I have uploaded an xvid-avi chunk (1.5 MB) with the renderer is mistaken. (VMR9 renderless is OK.)
http://www.mytempdir.com/1322774
http://yogurtrat.com/avatars/thumbs/972snapshot20070509095909.jpg (http://yogurtrat.com/avatars/viewer.php?id=972snapshot20070509095909.jpg)
Hi,
I don't reproduce your problem with the latest HR,ffdshow and MPC builds.
Once in a while i came back to say that the "Desynch" problem with "Bob deinterlancing" (tested with every possible decoder that do the Bdeint), and the "Huffy YUV" black screen is still here
:D
I don't reproduce your problem with the latest HR,ffdshow and MPC builds.
Ahaaa! Thanks for the reply!
The problem related to ffdshow (I'm using ffdshow_rev1133_20070504_clsid.exe): if The Raw Video is set to All Supported at the Codecs, the problem occurs. So I don't know if it's the fault of Haali's renderer or ffdshow ... (But strange is that VMR is OK.)
(tried several MPC builds (the official 6.4.9.0 too), latest haali's package).
I just couldn't get the PowerDVD Audio decoder to work on MPC. MPC reports a "Macrovision failed" on a region 0 DVD I have.
In fact, the problem is related to Haali Media Splitter. If I choose any other video renderer both PowerDVD and MPC's internal decoder work. If I choose Haali, MPC gives me "DVD: Macrovision Fail" error. That's with a region 0 DVD I authored myself. That's too bad. :( Not only I don't get Haali's awesome quality but also I don't get the PC extended YUV range. So it seems there is no way of watching DVDs with black blacks on Vista right now. :(
Is anyone having this problem too? I can't test on KMPlayer right now because KMPlayer is not outputting DVD to Haali due to a bug (it outputs to Overlay no matter what renderer I choose).
Thanks a lot guys. I'm in love with Haali's Renderer, it would be sad if I couldn't use it to watch DVDs.
Maybe that's one of Vista's playback of protected content policies: it will only work if the video renderer is signed by Microsoft or something like that.
I still wait for all the laments that will come when people will realize using postprocessors like ffdshow will not be possible on Vista when playing protected content. People tend to complain only when hitting a wall, lol.
Yeah, well, or maybe it is just a bias you have against Vista. :(
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/1320/mpchaalipurevideoxp5.th.jpg (http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mpchaalipurevideoxp5.jpg)
I think it is a configuration entry somewhere that is blocking it, maybe it is a MPC configuration, maybe it is a PowerDVD filter configuration (then you really wouldn't be able to help me, ok), maybe it is a Haali configuration.
But that's alright. I won't ask for help anymore. ;)
leeperry
11th May 2007, 21:21
actually WinDVD 8's DVD decoder is a lot sharper than Cyberlink's
I use it with KMPlayer on XP SP2, and most of the time it connects with HR........but sometimes it just refuses :mad:
might be a Macrovision issue as you stated, I guess it'd need some tricks from HR to tell DVD decoders that it's compliant :D
I've tried several DVD's, all my shrunk DVD's work fine with WinDVD 8 video decoder/KMPlayer/HR.....
..and all my original hollywood DVD's revert to "Overlay Mixer"(without TV>PC conversion, so the image is too dark) or refuse to play(if I disable the dreaded "Overlay Mixer" with RADLIGHT FILTER MANAGER).
we'd need some tool like anydvd/dvd region free that could kill macrovision in real time.........but I'm afraid that doesn't exist....
Haali, could you please look into making HR macrovision compliant ?
or better.....make it lie about it :D
actually WinDVD 8's DVD decoder is a lot sharper than Cyberlink's
Humm, that's interesting. Too bad WinDVD 8 Audio filters suck. 2.0 DTS? Please. :( They used to have better audio decoding.
I use it with KMPlayer on XP SP2, and most of the time it connects with HR........but sometimes it just refuses :mad:
Humm, but isn't it supposed to be Vista's DRM fault? As Kod stated?
I've tried several DVD's, all my shrunk DVD's work fine with WinDVD 8 video decoder/KMPlayer/HR.....
Lucky you. I can't make KMPlayer throw DVD video to any other renderer but Overlay. So no TV->PC convertion and bad image quality. :( (KMPlayer developers said it is a bug, what version are you using?)
Haali, could you please look into making HR macrovision compliant ?
or better.....make it lie about it :D
I don't think he will. :(
leeperry
12th May 2007, 07:58
KMPlayer's developer is a d*ck.......he likes to tell users to FO........I suspect he only cares about korean users....
I've been using KMP for a loooooong time, and after I reported many bugs........all I got was a ban on his forum :o
there's an option at the top of the general options where you can choose the renderer for DVD's, it overrides the video output options.
I use the Sonic Audio decoder(that even support EAC3), I agree Windvd8's audio decoder kinda sucks.
well if we ask nicely, maybe Haali can make HR fool DVD decoders that it's macrovision compliant :D
and some hot keys/options in the taskray to toggle BT601/709 and PC/TV range would sure be totally tits too :P
That's great Lee, but where is this option? I couldn't find it. Thanks. ;)
Well, it was Z, a moderator at the KMPlayer's forum, that told me it is a bug. So I'll wait for the next beta and see if they fixed it. Besides, I am having some other problems running KMPlayer on Vista. I really liked KMPlayer, but I'll stick to MPC that is perfect so far.
(Sonic Audio decoder? You mean, the www.sonic.com ? How about we continue these offtopic discussions somewhere else? :))
As for the TV->PC range, there is something interesting here. When I set the TV option I get the full PC range (0-255). When I set the PC option I get the reduced TV (16-235) range. :D I'm not sure if this is a bug on Haali, if this is correct, by design, or if this has something to do with the drivers on my video card. :D
Read my above posts on how the TV - PC range option works.
oddball
13th May 2007, 17:22
I have a problem using Haali 1.7.75.20. In the configuration under subtitles I have the following in the Audio and subtitles section.
jpn,eng;eng,off;
This used to work and only displayed English subtitles for anime shows and not for English spoken movies etc. But now it ignores it and displays English subtitles in English spoken movies no matter what player I use. Yes I know I can manually turn the subtitles off but that is not the point. This should work. The subtitles are in MKV containers and are correctly tagged as English when I check in MKVMerge GUI.
leeperry
13th May 2007, 20:20
ok Rash, problem solved with KMP/HR on my side........it was a KMP bug :D
my DVD's have never looked so sexy ;)
Lucky you. KMP hangs on Vista with DVD + Haali. So maybe these two will never work toghether here. :(
cyberbeing
15th May 2007, 08:08
I have a problem using Haali 1.7.75.20. In the configuration under subtitles I have the following in the Audio and subtitles section.
jpn,eng;eng,off;
This used to work and only displayed English subtitles for anime shows and not for English spoken movies etc. But now it ignores it and displays English subtitles in English spoken movies no matter what player I use. Yes I know I can manually turn the subtitles off but that is not the point. This should work. The subtitles are in MKV containers and are correctly tagged as English when I check in MKVMerge GUI.
First the version 1.7.75.20 is dated 02/13/2007. You should download and install the latest version (http://haali.cs.msu.ru/mkv/MatroskaSplitter.exe) from Haali's websited dated 4/28/2007 to see if that fixed it.
I tested this out on a couple MKVs with english audio and english subs and with the setting you listed the english subs were not displayed (worked as it should).
You said that the subtitles were tagged as english but that wouldn't really matter in this scenario. That "eng,off" setting means if the audio was defined as english then no subtitles will be displayed. Was the audio stream defined as english? If it is then maybe you should upload a sample somewhere so Haali can track down the bug.
Note to Moderator: This should be moved to the Alternative Matroska Splitter (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=80762) topic
Read my above posts on how the TV - PC range option works.
I did it. Thanks Kod. ;)
Haali, could you please look into making HR macrovision compliant ?
or better.....make it lie about it :D
Today I've set ffdshow to decode all uncompressed formats to test this Macrovision thing. So ffdshow sucessfully sits between Cyberlink's decoder and the renderer. But it still doesn't work with Haali's. :(
So obviously the video is not being real-time encoded to Macrovision anywhere in the chain (and as I said earlier, I'm using a region 0 DVD).
Here is proof of what once worked. :(
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/1320/mpchaalipurevideoxp5.th.jpg (http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mpchaalipurevideoxp5.jpg)
Unbelievable! (I'm so sorry for flooding this topic)
Looking at my screenshot I had an idea, to remove Cyberlink's audio from the graph. Voilá! So maybe it is Cyberlink's audio decoder checking which video renderer I am using? This is NUTS!
Anyway, it is working with ffdshow's audio filter now. Well, I think PowerDVD audio is better, but it seems I can't have everything. So I choose video. ;)
leeperry
16th May 2007, 09:27
well ;)
foxyshadis
16th May 2007, 11:00
just use Sonic Audio Decoder from Sonic.CinePlayer.HD.DVD.Decoder.v4.2
check out google ;)
That's totally uncalled for and in violation of our rules. You should know by now how often people are warned away from warez here. Struck for rule 6.
leeperry
16th May 2007, 20:55
oops edited, sorry for that!!!
moshmothma
20th May 2007, 23:31
Lucky you. KMP hangs on Vista with DVD + Haali. So maybe these two will never work toghether here. :(
That's a KMP problem. The author is aware of the KMP, Haali and DVD. Will probably be fixed in an upcoming version of KMP.
Hi Haali,
Just to regroup some issue I have with my FX5200 and the Haali renderer:
1 - Black screen during playback:
With some videos I have a black screen during the playback and I have notice that it's always happen with the videos of a specific size.
With a size too large or too small the renderer cannot work:
It seems it's only based on the vertical size.
If the vertical size is set to 241 or under then I have black screen.
If the vertical size is set to 1025 or upper then I have black screen.
too large:
http://www.1-clickshare.com/download.php?file=668db2ff0aa53d51d566a71bbf49f0fb_517
too small:
http://www.1-clickshare.com/download.php?file=9b72ba1e4badb66ab76bcdf85d19d032_368
2 - Another Issue:
When I play this sample using Haali renderer the sound is not sync.
Download: http://www.mytempdir.com/1335646
Password: doom9
I have the issue with MPC+Haali renderer+ffdshow and to solve my problem I have to uncheck "Allow output format changes during playback" in ffdshow.
I have the problem with KMP but there is no uncheck "Allow output format changes during playback" like in ffdshow.
Thanks
leeperry
25th May 2007, 18:32
hey guys, I got a question about BT.601/709
so decoding 601 in 709 is not a good idea after all :
If you decode 601 encoded signals with a 709 decoder then the green amplitude is reduced by 15.5% so it looks darker, (which you may be interpreting as more saturated - it isn't, it's just darker) and the red amplitude is increased by about 9% and about 10% green is added to the red, so it looks lighter and is more orange (it really isn't less saturated, it's a different hue.)"
and indeed, the red looks more greenish and less saturated, and the green is darker, which kills some contrast.
what about the opposite ? what's the drawback of decoding 709 in 601 ? how can I find out if that's the case ?
Thanks,
what about the opposite ? what's the drawback of decoding 709 in 601 ? how can I find out if that's the case ?
You can play around with the Color Bar Patterns available on http://www.w6rz.net and see for yourself how it's affected by different combinations of 601 and 709 conversions.
leeperry
25th May 2007, 20:00
w00t thanks, I'll check it out!
if it does the opposite of 601>709, it would make the green lighter, and the red darker and less greenish.......I just ran a test on a HDTV file, it seems to be the case.
anyway, Haali could you please set up hot keys(like CTRL+F4/F5) to switch between 601/709 and PC/TV range ?
and options in the MKV splitter tasktray would be awesome too!!!!!
DGIndex(File->Preview) is able to tell if the colorimetry of a MPEG2 file is 601 or 709, any chance of having HR finding it out by himself ? that would be the shiznit :D
Thanks for making perfect software, this rules!! :D
leeperry
26th May 2007, 17:48
another thing, could Haali add 13-235>0-255 conversion ?
because many DVD's actually have data between 13 and 16.
here's the proof from a PAL DVD :
16-235 > 0-255 conversion :
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6430/nolevellq9.png
13-235 > 0-255 conversion :
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/4776/level13235ky9.png
many more DVD's have this problem, like Terminator 3, The Village, etc....
some guy is making a custom version of ffdshow that actually detects how low the black goes then converts on the fly to PC range......any chance of seeing this feature in HR ? together with 601/709 detection, that would kick major ass!!!!!!!! :D
some guy is making a custom version of ffdshow that actually detects how low the black goes then converts on the fly to PC range......
Can you give a link for that? I'm curious about it.
Thanks
leeperry
26th May 2007, 19:44
I dearly hope you can understand french :D
the issue is being discussed in this thread :
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=170799037#170799037
and the name of the guy who's modding ffdshow with this feature is Seb26...........it's in early beta stage at this time : http://membres.lycos.fr/sebfr26/PCHC/Download_FFDShowSeb.htm
Having signals go lower that 16 is expected as well as higher than 235. It has to do with the fact that sharp filtering of signals (like you would want) and its manipulation is very hard for equipment that process such analog signals. (yeah, it comes back to limitations of analog equipment) But still, all useful information is to be considered the one inside the 16-235 range.
I dearly hope you can understand french :D
the issue is being discussed in this thread :
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=170799037#170799037
and the name of the guy who's modding ffdshow with this feature is Seb26...........it's in early beta stage at this time : http://membres.lycos.fr/sebfr26/PCHC/Download_FFDShowSeb.htm
As I'm French, it should be easy for me to understand ;)
Thanks.
and the name of the guy who's modding ffdshow with this feature is Seb26...........it's in early beta stage at this time : http://membres.lycos.fr/sebfr26/PCHC/Download_FFDShowSeb.htm
Am I the only one thinking here that he should be making code diffs available alongside his ax file?
np: Vladislav Delay - Wanted To (Kill) (Whistleblower)
leeperry
27th May 2007, 11:42
well call the FBI ;)
anyway, I use DGIndex to find out MPEG1/2 colorspaces(File>Preview), and all the MPEG1 files are actually BT.470-2
it's being discussed here :
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=101482
so yeah, automatic detection for colorspace and range in HR would be a lifesaver to ensure 100% accurate rendering........which is what we all crave :D
edit : ok 470-2 is the former version of 601........but still ;)
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