Haali Renderer

[JarrettH]

Why does setting RGB32 + high quality in ffdshow look AMAZING? :confused: Far far better than forcing YV12

[Haali]

Because my renderer doesn't support YV12 input at all, so you are getting a system default renderer instead.

[anonymez]

is anybody able to get the renderer working in wmp? (one of those unfortunate situations where a decent player is not an option)

[KoD]

WMP does not give the user the possibility to select what renderer it wishes to use.

[anonymez]

exactly. tried increasing the renderer's merit-- now the default with graphedit/directshow, still nothing with wmp however

[LoRd_MuldeR]

exactly. tried increasing the renderer's merit-- now the default with graphedit/directshow, still nothing with wmp however

I guess WMP forces it's own renderer to be used.
There is not much we can do about that, excpet hacking the WMP code :rolleyes:

MPC is one small EXE file. In which case you can install Haali Renderer but not MPC ?

[KoD]

WMP uses VMR7.

[anonymez]

MPC is one small EXE files. In which case you can install Haali Renderer but not MPC ?

not a permission issue, just that a gadget for vista's sidebar uses wmp and what looks like nearest neighbour resizing.

as i feared, not much can be done but it was worth a shot. guess i'll have to resize via ffdshow

[MatMaul]

This renderer is very good, I love the cache of frames in the GPU RAM, this seems to help decode HD H264 content in real time because the cache prevents peak bitrate by calculating frame in advance.

But I actually have a lot of tearing with my video card :(
I haven't tearing with vmr9 renderless renderer.

X700 mobility with catalyst 6.12

with Soft Vsync it's worse : the video is jerked.
"Lock backbuffer before presenting" doesn't solve my problem too.

[Gnerma]

Thanks for the update Haali. This is the bestest renderer ever (imagine the most annoying person you know saying that to get the full effect).

Anyway, I'm experience jerky pans with the new version & soft Vsync enabled as well. Turning it off solves it but of course introduces some tearing.

I'm running an X1900XT 256mb with Cat 6.11.

[KoD]

I don't know if others have experienced this, but personally I get MPC crashing when trying to use RGB32 with the new renderer version.

Gnerma, when playing a file, open taskmanager, go to the Performance tab, then from the menu select View -> Show Kernel Times. How is the red graph compared to the green one ? About the same size or much much smaller ? Also, what type of CPU do you have ?

[anonymez]

great update haali :)

is anyone able to play a DVD or a DVD folder in MPC with the renderer? always crashes here

[JarrettH]

Why does setting RGB32 + high quality in ffdshow look AMAZING? :confused: Far far better than forcing YV12

Because my renderer doesn't support YV12 input at all, so you are getting a system default renderer instead.

Yeah, I'm not using Haali at the moment. It sure does fix 0-255 range with RGB32...everything looks as it should! :cool:

What is the reason people use Haali? I don't understand. Any visual quality improvement? If my input video isn't YUY2 what's the point in using it?
Is there a way to see the input colourspace in ffdshow? I have it outputting RGB32+high quality conversion for divx, xvid.

[ViCroié]

Yeah, I'm not using Haali at the moment. It sure does fix 0-255 range with RGB32...everything looks as it should! :cool:

What is the reason people use Haali? I don't understand. Any visual quality improvement? If my input video isn't YUY2 what's the point in using it?
Is there a way to see the input colourspace in ffdshow? I have it outputting RGB32+high quality conversion for divx, xvid.

I use it because it's faster then VMR9 Renderless, and I can controle the buffer size (which uses vid memory).

If it would be possible to do a colorconversion by the GPU (ATI advertises with it) or more colorspace inputs, haali renderer would seem perfect to me. High quality resizing, speed, 0-255 range fix, video memory buffer.

[Seb.26]

Hey ! ... What a great news that this pre-release for Haali's (great) Render !!!
( Thanks a lot for that Mr. Haali )

Happy new year to all here ! :o)

If it would be possible to do a colorconversion by the GPU (ATI advertises with it) or more colorspace inputs, haali renderer would seem perfect to me. High quality resizing, speed, 0-255 range fix, video memory buffer.
Try using FFDShow as a YV12->RGB32 filter with level conversion ... Haali's render accept RGB32 input and don't adapt level with it ...

Perfect for managing BTB & WTW with FFDShow's level filter ... ;)

[Peuj]

Hi,

I use MPC rev611-3.2, ffdshow_rev731_20061230_clsid.exe and the latest official Haali Renderer and output set to RGB32.

When I try to play the wmv file from this link http://www.jeuxvideo.fr/telecharger-video-25-gameplay-hd-1080p-39401.html

I have a black screen with the Haali Renderer but not with Overlay, VMR7/9.

Thanks

[ExtraEye]

Hi,

I use MPC rev611-3.2, ffdshow_rev731_20061230_clsid.exe and the latest official Haali Renderer and output set to RGB32.

When I try to play the wmv file from this link http://www.jeuxvideo.fr/telecharger-video-25-gameplay-hd-1080p-39401.html

I have a black screen with the Haali Renderer but not with Overlay, VMR7/9.

Thanks
happens to me too. I think it just doesn't support wmv

[Peuj]

...I think it just doesn't support wmv

humm not exactly because I don't have this problem with some other wmv files.

a working wmv:

Format : Windows Media
File size : 34.6 MiB
PlayTime : 4mn 14s
Bit rate : 1142 Kbps
VBR Peak : 1462117
Buffer Average : 39691

Video #0
Codec : WMV3
Codec/Info : Windows Media Video 9
Bit rate : 991 Kbps
Width : 480 pixels
Height : 270 pixels
Aspect ratio : 16/9

Audio #0
Codec : WMA2
Codec/Info : Windows Media Audio 2
Bit rate : 128 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48 KHz

The not working wmv:

Format : Windows Media
File size : 117 MiB
PlayTime : 1mn 57s
Bit rate : 8388 Kbps
Performer : Digital Rapids

Video #0
Codec : WMV3
Codec/Info : Windows Media Video 9
Bit rate : 8029 Kbps
Width : 1920 pixels
Height : 1080 pixels
Aspect ratio : 16/9

Audio #0
Codec : WMA3
Codec/Info : Windows Media Audio 3
Bit rate : 192 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48 KHz

[Scoty]

what is icl 9.1 ?
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=173941&package_id=199416

and how can i set Haali Renderer output to RGB32 ?

[chros]

High quality resizing, speed, 0-255 range fix, ...
Hhmmm ... I have tried this config, and this is much faster:
- overlay output
- ffdshow Lanczos resizing (tap=2, all others is default)

The poblem is that I want to use some sharpening filter (limitedsharpenfaster) in ffdshow, and with Haali's renderer it's impossible to playback (jerky playback)...

(Hardware: X2 4600, 1GB DDRAM, GeForce 6600GT 128MB RAM
Software: latest ffdshow from x264.nl)

[ViCroié]

Hhmmm ... I have tried this config, and this is much faster:
- overlay output
- ffdshow Lanczos resizing (tap=2, all others is default)


Yes its allot faster. It's not very practical though, as my video will be a fixed size. I think haali renderer will be fast in the end, I just lose too much resources due to colorconversions.
When testing Haali renderer on high def trailers, it seems that i can't play the video in any other way but overlay.

I disable "lock back-buffer" in MPC and "soft v-sync" in Haali renderer and it plays fine with a 256MB buffer (120 frames).
I don't do any color conversions either.
I get no tearing at all.
With overlay my CPU load is 50 - 60% with haali its 60 - 70%, any other configuration is unplayable.

[3ngel]

I have one question and a bug:

Q: Setting the sharpness value to 0 i'll not have any image alteration (that is lossless passtrough transformation) compared to the original isn't it?

B: With HuffyYUV compressed video, there is only blackscreen.

[foxyshadis]

How can you have a lossless passthrough if you're resizing? You have to transform it in some way, the sharpness merely controls how it's transformed.

(If your video isn't resized because it's the same as the screen size, then there's no transformation and no sharpness applied.)

[aydc]

Haali, thank you for the excellent image quality. It beats anything VMR has to offer. It seems to be even better than the new EVR mode in Vista.

I have a small performance problem though:

My system is Core2 Duo E6600 and GeForce 7900GS. I use DivX 6.4 and ZoomPlayer to watch movies. With VMR modes, jumping to any time in the movie is almost instantaneous. When I select Haali Renderer, I have to wait around 0.5 seconds to 1 second for the image to show when jumping.

This is not a huge problem so I keep on using HR, but if it can be solved, I'll be glad.

By the way, it'll be fantastic if you can include color controls.

[Seb.26]

[...]When I select Haali Renderer, I have to wait around 0.5 seconds to 1 second for the image to show when jumping.[...]
Try to reduce the size of your buffer : maybe it's the time needed to fill it ... :sly:

[3ngel]

@foxyshadis
Obviously i was talking about a non-resized video.

[aydc]

Try to reduce the size of your buffer : maybe it's the time needed to fill it ... :sly:

It didn't make a difference. None of the options do. The delay happens both in Vista an XP, but in Vista it's a bit worse.

Actually I think Haali mentioned several times that rendering and buffering are done in separate threads with rendering having higher priority, so buffering can't cause any slowdown.

[Seb.26]

Actually I think Haali mentioned several times that rendering and buffering are done in separate threads with rendering having higher priority, so buffering can't cause any slowdown.
Exept if Haali wait for the buffer is about full before starting playback ...

[aydc]

Exept if Haali wait for the buffer is about full before starting playback ...

Nope, if that was so, playback would start veeeery sloooowly. :)

It starts playing first, than starts buffering with the processing power left.

[Seb.26]

It starts playing first, than starts buffering with the processing power left.
Can you confirm that Haali please ?

In case of yes : a parameter to set the min buffer level before starting playback can be usefull ... starting with an empty buffer may not be a good idea in some case ... ;)

( That's why when using Haali's Render, I sometimes 'pause-wait-play' during the playback ... :D )

[Haali]

Yes, that's how it happens. If the decoder delivers frames faster than they can be displayed, then they are buffered. I don't think waiting at start would help, even in the best case the buffer is only a couple of seconds.

[Seb.26]

Yes, that's how it happens. If the decoder delivers frames faster than they can be displayed, then they are buffered.
Ok :( ...

When playback is paused, do you continue to request for frames until buffer is full ?!
( I think yes : sometimes, the playback stutter, and is smooth after "pause ... play" )

I don't think waiting at start would help, even in the best case the buffer is only a couple of seconds.
Ok ... in any case, most video start with "fast decoded" frames like logo, black frames ...ect...

PS: Do you plan to add some OSD options ?
> render FPS, decoder FPS, buffer fill % ...ect

Thanks for your work Haali !!!
I hope for new true-release of your render soon ! :D ;)

[Haali]

You can see buffer fill in MPC statistics bar. I abuse the Sync Offset line for that. avg: is rendered frames, dev: is freelist size.

[Seb.26]

You can see buffer fill in MPC statistics bar. I abuse the Sync Offset line for that. avg: is rendered frames, dev: is freelist size.
Ok, thanks for the info ... I will look this ... :)

[Peuj]

Hi,

I use MPC rev611-3.2, ffdshow_rev731_20061230_clsid.exe and the latest official Haali Renderer and output set to RGB32.

When I try to play the wmv file from this link http://www.jeuxvideo.fr/telecharger-video-25-gameplay-hd-1080p-39401.html

I have a black screen with the Haali Renderer but not with Overlay, VMR7/9.

Thanks

@Haali can you confirm it's a "Haali Renderer" issue ? (even it can/will be fix or not)

Thanks

[Henrikx]

@Haali
Please look here :
http://forum.gleitz.info/showpost.php?p=315040&postcount=42
This mistake happens often, I try to explain in English !

Picture 1 : MKV Preview (with mistakes) Haali ( Shell.Ext with mistakes too, but not so much)
Picture 2 JPEG Preview (without mistakes)
Picture 3.Specialfilter Logarythmus shows the bad Part of Picture .
Picture 4. Miniature Preview MKV (without mistakes)

I had written also already to mosu , because mkvmerge .

Example: Picture City of Angels (German: Stadt der Engel)
http://www.moviemaze.de/media/wallpaper/1218/stadt-der-engel.html

Is there a solution?

[3ngel]

@Haali
At the moment i want to signal two bugs:

1) Black screen on HuffyYUV compressed video

2) On x264+mkv video is upside-down, can you add an "invert video" switch please?

Thanks

[ExtraEye]

@Haali
2) On x264+mkv video is upside-down, can you add an "invert video" switch please?
Thanks
Happens to me too. for now i use ffdshow in "output" tab to flip the picture

[Haali]

@All: Flipped picture can happen when using RGB due to a small bug (I fixed it already), switch to YUY2 and it should be gone.

@Peuj: The video plays fine on my machine. What codec are you using to play it?

@3ngel: Try using ffdshow for Huffy, that should fix it.

[3ngel]

switch to YUY2 and it should be gone
What? Are you joking? :)
I want to use RGB 'cause the quality on my video card is better when fed with RGB instead of YUY2, so i think it's a your matter to make it doing in every color space including RGB
Then use FFDShow for what? I don't understand.
In any case i don't want (and don't need) FFDshow.

[Keepitsimple]

Hi, excellent renderer I must say. Its the only renderer where I can switch between all my screens without mpc crashing.

Now, I have a problem with a ts file. In fullscreen I see a gray line below the movie which is around 10 pixels wide.

[Egh]

What? Are you joking? :)
I want to use RGB 'cause the quality on my video card is better when fed with RGB instead of YUY2, so i think it's a your matter to make it doing in every color space including RGB
Then use FFDShow for what? I don't understand.
In any case i don't want (and don't need) FFDshow.

ffdshow although, is much more contemporary than Huffman decoder you must be using. That must the the source of your problems :)

[3ngel]

The actual decoder i'm using (that is the ACM encoder used to encode), has no problem with both VMR9 and overlay mode, so i don't see why i have to change it (using moreover FFDShow)

[Peuj]

@Peuj: The video plays fine on my machine. What codec are you using to play it?

Thanks for the reply!! :)

I've tried on another machine and I cannot reproduce the problem :(

About the codec MPC says: WMVideo Decoder DMO and WMAudio Decoder DMO.

I have WMP11 installed.

And this is the list of WMVs given by GSpot:
WMV1 Windows Media Video V7 Microsoft
WMV2 Windows Media Video V8 Microsoft
WMV3 Windows Media Video V9 Microsoft
WMVA WMVA codec (supported by ffdshow)
WMVP Windows Media Video V9

The output set with ffdshow is RGB32 but I have the same issue with YUY2.

Don't know what other information could be helpful.

Thanks

[Seb.26]

so i don't see why i have to change it

:rolleyes: ... it's your matter to change it or not ... :p

[MatMaul]

Any news about jerked playback with soft vsync actived (without soft vsync I have a lot of tearing and with soft vsync the video is jerked) ?
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=923596#post923596

[Seb.26]

Any news about jerked playback with soft vsync actived (without soft vsync I have a lot of tearing and with soft vsync the video is jerked) ?
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=923596#post923596
Hum ... with all that "vsync", hard to know who do what ?

> MPC have some anti-tearing "Lock back buffer"
> Reclock have "Enable vSync correction"
> Haali's render have "soft vsync"

:o

[MatMaul]

Hum ... with all that "vsync", hard to know who do what ?

> MPC have some anti-tearing "Lock back buffer"
> Reclock have "Enable vSync correction"
> Haali's render have "soft vsync"

:o
I speak about haali soft vsync.
but I have also tested with "Lock back buffer"

[Seb.26]

Does anybody know how all this "vsync" manager works together ? :o

[3ngel]

it's your matter to change it or not
Oh yes in the worst case i'll change Haali Renderer :p

Other bug (in addition to Huffy and x264 UPsideDown)

BUG: When playing 1980*1080 content, the size is automatically reduced (by a ? percentage) like 1024*576, with different sizes near 1980 the size is automatically reduce randomly. In all the cases i'm not able to view contents in their original size. The problem is not present in Overlay and VRM9.