Haali Renderer

[leeperry]

well 32 frames is more than enough, I'd say.

anything above 6 is overkill from what Casimir666 told me a while ago, and creates unwanted latency I think.

and basically it's good if it's a multiple of the actual frame rate......I got it set to 6 max myself, works fine for 24fps in Reclock :D

well I use the original gamut PS script in ffdshow with the Avishader script, so it's no big deal if HR can't do it itself.

but the frames go back & forth between the GPU<>CPU, so it sucks a lot of CPU......but it's either this or use MPC HC in VMR9/EVR :eek:

and it sucks too much CPU for 1080p on my o/c Q6600, but well next year we'll all have Nehalem...

[Steveo08]

1920x1080 RGB = 32 frames
1920x1080 YUY2 = 64 frames[/QUOTE]



is that the same for 720p in hr?

[NoX1911]

how many 1080p frames can you fit in 256mb ?
1920x1080 rgb = 32 frames
1920x1080 yuy2 = 64 frames
rgb24=43
yuy2=64
yv12=86

[cyberbeing]

is that the same for 720p in hr?
No. For 1280x720:
YUY2=145
RGB32=72

rgb24=43
yuy2=64
yv12=86

Why are you listing values for RGB24 and YV12? Haali Renderer doesn't support RGB24 or YV12. The only input it supports (and caches) is RGB32 and YUY2.

[Steveo08]

[QUOTE=cyberbeing;1224767]No. For 1280x720:
YUY2=145
RGB32=72



thank you! but how did you calculate it?

[cyberbeing]

No. For 1280x720:
YUY2=145
RGB32=72


thank you! but how did you calculate it?

The simple way, if you own a video card with more then 256MB of memory, is to just set the frame cache to 256MB, open a video, and look at the Haali Renderer statistics to see how many frames it caches.

An alternative method for RGB32 is to save a uncompressed RGB32 BMP with the dimensions you want and divide the size of the BMP by 256MB (rounding down). As for YUY2, I'm not too familiar with how to save an uncompressed YUY2 image to do the same method.

[Steveo08]

The simple way, if you own a video card with more then 256MB of memory, is to just set the frame cache to 256MB, open a video, and look at the Haali Renderer statistics to see how many frames it caches.

An alternative method for RGB32 is to save a uncompressed RGB32 BMP with the dimensions you want and divide the size of the BMP by 256MB (rounding down). As for YUY2, I'm not too familiar with how to save an uncompressed YUY2 image to do the same method.



thanks for the info. :)

[RealNC]

I have big problems with Haali's renderer and some 60FPS videos I made when playing them full screen (in MPC-HC 1.1.796.0). Example video where this happens:

Video (99.8MB) (http://foss.math.aegean.gr/~realnc/vids/3DMark2000.mkv)
Mirror if above doesn't work. (http://realnc.kamenos.gr/3DMark2000.mkv)

Playing this full screen on my 1280x1024 desktop (so the renderer scales it from 640x480 to 1280x960) results in big framedrops. The video is 60FPS but Haali's can't keep up; it drops lots of frames and only does 48-50FPS. It plays fine only if I leave it windowed 1:1 with no scaling. CPU load is very low in either case. Same with GPU load (reported by Catalyst 8.12 and GPU-Z.)

This is under Windows XP SP3 on an Intel Core 2 Duo @ 3.33GHz, 4GB DDR2 RAM and a Radeon HD4870. I don't know if I'm asking for too much, but can someone confirm the problem is actually with Haali's renderer rather than with something else on my system by trying to play the video?

[cyberbeing]

I think it is a Haali Renderer issue with certain resolution/refresh combos and fullscreen 60fps content. It is something like a lag where it can't achieve 60fps but only in fullscreen. If you maximize the window (instead of going fullscreen), does the problem go away?

[RealNC]

No, it still drops frames. If I resize the window, the bigger I make it, the worse the framedrop gets. 640x480 (1:1): 60FPS. ~800x600: ~58FPS. ~1024x768: 56FPS. 1280x960: 48FPS.

[cyberbeing]

It must be a difference because you have an ATI card and I have an NVIDIA card. On mine I only see a low framerate in full screen when my monitor is set to the same resolution as yours (1280x1024@60Hz right?). Maximized or at any other resolution, it's perfect.

Edit: Well I rolled back to the Haali Renderer included with the 6/3/2007 build of MatroskaSplitter and the problem went away completely. Every build 11/18/2007 and newer seems to have a 60fps, fullscreen, low framerate problem, with certain resolution/refresh combos on my PC.
/me kicks himself for taking over a year to realize there was a problem when Haali was around more often. :(
I guess that means I should try to track down Haali and hope he still has the source code from way back then.

Edit2: PM sent to Haali

[shaolin95]

I was trying to use Haali again to compare against EVR but the image is upside down!
Any ideas? :-)

[cyberbeing]

You must be outputting RGB and using a decoder that doesn't realize it should be flipping the output (or flipping it when it should not).

[shaolin95]

I am using ffdshow and yes, using avisynth ConvertoRGB32. With EVR Cust it works fine though. Any way to correct this behavior then?

[cyberbeing]

Well it shouldn't be doing that. FFDshow and ConverttoRGB32 works fine over here. Is your ffdshow a recent tryout build (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=173941&package_id=199416)? Anything else in the filter graph except FFDshow?

When connecting FFDshow directly to Haali Renderer the output colorspace under Info&CPU should be using and report "RGB32". Video is displayed correct.
When connecting FFDshow through VSFilter and then to Haali Renderer the output colorspace under Info&CPU should be using and report "RGB32, Flipped". Video is displayed correct.

On some rare files (I would say <1%) the video ends up flipped no matter what when using Haali Renderer with RGB. Does the same thing happen to you for all files? I know I have some anamorphic xvid MKVs from 2005 which always end up flipped whenever outputting RGB32 for whatever reason. Could you upload a sample?

As a workaround you could check 'Flip video' in FFDshow's output panel, but you really shouldn't have to do that under normal circumstances.

[shaolin95]

I will check all that and report back...
thanks a lot for the suggestions cyberbeing.
BTW, is there a way to get a full report on the filters I am using to post here?

[cyberbeing]

What player are you using?

With MPC you could just right click on the video, roll over filters, hit PrtScn, and paste the resulting screenshot into paint or something.

With Zoom Player you would right click on the video, roll over filter properties, click Graph Information, expand all the + signs resize the window so everything is shown, hit PrtScn, and paste the resulting screenshot into paint or something.

[aydc]

Does anyone know if the project is still alive? It's been almost a year since the renderer was last updated.

[Astrophizz]

It's not so much a project I don't think (at least not a community one). Leeperry can probably give you the latest info since he is in touch with Haali... I think there have been updates but no official release. Maybe with coreAVC 2.0....

[Mistar Muffin]

I am having a problem with the built in resizing in Haali's renderer. My HTPC is using and unusual resolution, and I assume that's the problem. My HTPC has a custom timing of 1808x1020. This is what fits my screen. It let's me account for overscan without scaling. It works. However, when Haali upscales standard def material, such as XviD to that resolution, I get a faint checkerboard pattern in the video. It looks like very large macroblocking but it does not move. The checkboard pattern remains static in the picture. It's not easy to see but it's there. I know it is Haali becuause I can go into ffdshow and enable resizing, and I told ffdshow to resize everything to 1808 width while maintaining AR. This eliminates the artifacts (still using Haali renderer). In fact, with video fullscreen, I can use the ffdshow options to enable/disable the resizing and see the checkerboard pattern appear and disappear. Is there any chance of getting this bug fixed or is my workaround the best I'm going to get? I hate resizing everything ffdshow decodes without discrimination.

Thanks fellas.

[leeperry]

there have been updates but no official release.
yep
when Haali upscales standard def material, such as XviD to that resolution, I get a faint checkerboard pattern in the video.
and you have an ATi card, right ?
resize to native res in ffdshow, and your troubles will be far away.
the good side is that you can upscale in spline36, HR only does bicubic :o

[Steveo08]

@leeperry

is it possible to get the inofficial release from haali?

[leeperry]

@leeperry

is it possible to get the inofficial release from haali?
ask Haali http://forum-images.hardware.fr/images/perso/mrbrelle.gif

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Haali Media Splitter 2009-01-11

Haali Media Splitter

Changes

11/01/2009

New Features:

The shortcut for gdsmux is created in the start menu

Fixed items:

Broken Matroska files with looped SeekHeads could cause a hang in Matroska Parser, the number of SeekHeads is now limited to 10
Removed the workaround to find tags written by Matroska Shell Extension, this caused excessive file scanning when opening files created by recent MKVToolnix
File linking is now enabled by default




http://haali.cs.msu.ru/mkv/

[clsid]

Great news. Although the changelog is surprisingly short.

[Snowknight26]

Still has the LPCM bug, no?

[cyberbeing]

The problem with new Haali Renderer builds described in post #1261 (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1231443&postcount=1261) still exists, but considering he hasn't checked the forum since July 2008, he probably hasn't even seen my PM yet.

[STaRGaZeR]

Still has the LPCM bug, no?

Yep :(

[leeperry]

he hasn't checked the forum since July 2008
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1235639&postcount=880

[cyberbeing]

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1235639&postcount=880

Yeah, I noticed that he returned the next morning after I made that post.

leeperry, do you have both an ATI and an nVidia card now? I thought you only had an ATI but you posted a CoreAVC CUDA benchmark a few days back. What card are you using currently?

Do you have the same problem with that video RealNC posted when watching fullscreen at 1280x1024@60hz? If so, does the 6/3/2007 build of Haali Renderer fix it for you like it does for me?

[leeperry]

Yeah, I noticed that he returned the next morning after I made that post.

leeperry, do you have both an ATI and an nVidia card now? I thought you only had an ATI but you posted a CoreAVC CUDA benchmark a few days back. What card are you using currently?

Do you have the same problem with that video RealNC posted when watching fullscreen at 1280x1024@60hz? If so, does the 6/3/2007 build of Haali Renderer fix it for you like it does for me?
I got a GF9600 now.
I've just tried that sample in 1280*1024@59.940 & 1280*768@59.940 w/ Reclock, and the frame rate quickly falls to 48fps and doesn't increase much...

the 6/3/2007 build fixed the problem indeed :eek:

no wonder I had so many problems with the 50fps HD bits from ORF1, and some 59.94fps WMV's :rolleyes:

well good luck getting this bug fixed, I've annoyed Haali for the gamut for like 1 year before I got a reply...I've also told him about all the other problems for +1 year(wrong 601/709 YUY2 coeffs, ghost lines when upscaling on both nvidia/ati, uncentered zoom in RGB32 on ati, jitter problem with 23.976 MKV's in Reclock)

Haali's swamped w/ work, and doesn't have any more free time to work on his fantastic HMS/HR package :(

you still could use his latest package with the dxr.dll from the 6/3/2007 build :p

I personally don't have many videos that are >30fps, so I'll stick w/ the latest build.

[cyberbeing]

you still could use his latest package with the dxr.dll from the 6/3/2007 build :p

I personally don't have many videos that are >30fps, so I'll stick w/ the latest build.

Yep, that is exactly what I have been doing ever since I discovered it fixed it (using old dxr.dll with new everything else).

I don't run into much 60fps content either, but that 6/3/2007 build also feels like it is a bit faster all-around and keeps vsync better (smoother) with my less then exact framerate multiple refresh rates with or without Reclock. That could just be my imagination though.

The only thing I really miss in that old build is the auto selection BT.601/BT.709, but since I send it RGB most of the time anyways, it's not a major annoyance.

[iron2000]

Was hoping for some fix for the grid lines for the resize.
Not really important as ffdshow is doing the resize now.

[aydc]

Was hoping for some fix for the grid lines for the resize.
Not really important as ffdshow is doing the resize now.

Yeah that's a big problem for me too. ffdshow is not the solution because it runs on the CPU and it's slow. Haali runs on the GPU and is much faster, though image quality is not so good beacuse of these visible resize blocks.

[christpunchers2008]

I've noticed the ghostline problem with my ATI HD 3850. With an older card, the x1950, HR was perfect. With 3850, the ghostlines are always there.

But I've found a temporary "fix" to this issue using ATI Tool Tray.
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/Video-Tweak/ATI-Tray-Tools.shtml

Install it, right click on the icon in your taskbar on the right, go to "Tweaks > standard Tweaks". Under "Shaders", there should be an "Override Pixel Shader Version" pull down area, in there choose anything from 1.1 to 1.4 and this will force your videocard to use the selected version instead of default Pixel Shader 2.0.

Play your video again and the ghostlines should be gone with HR. However without Pixel Shader 2.0 it seems that you cannot sharpen the image with HR (the slider is grayed out). I guess this a 2.0 and above exclusive function. But IMO it's worth the trade-off. I would rather watch the material at its purest state with HR vs. using sharpening to give you pseudo HD while being FORCED to withstand those ugly ghostlines.

[leeperry]

great find, I'll pass it to my friends running ATi!

I also get ghost lines on my GF9600 sometimes, but not w/ very low zoom ratios apparently..

[Amour]

Can Haali render .xvid files?
I have issues finding something to play the softsubs from .xvid files.

[christpunchers2008]

great find, I'll pass it to my friends running ATi!

I also get ghost lines on my GF9600 sometimes, but not w/ very low zoom ratios apparently..

It seems that if I use a lower zoom or overzoom slightly and not full screen zoom the ghostlines disappear. Example: I would use 150% for a 720p video for it to fit perfectly as fullscreen, but the ghostlines are there. But if I go to 152% or 149% zoom the ghostlines are gone.

Do Nvidia have this product with HR or is it exclusive to ATi only?

[leeperry]

It seems that if I use a lower zoom or overzoom slightly and not full screen zoom the ghostlines disappear. Example: I would use 150% for a 720p video for it to fit perfectly as fullscreen, but the ghostlines are there. But if I go to 152% or 149% zoom the ghostlines are gone.

Do Nvidia have this product with HR or is it exclusive to ATi only?
well I've been traumatized by these lines on the ATi, I always send native res to HR since then :D

it's also doable through RivaTuner, I might try it....maybe HR is not as 1:1 as I initially thought :o

http://www.imlin.com/pwh/5200_tweakpage.htm

[Egh]

Can somebody post a screenshot demonstrating these ghostlines? I thought that issue was fixed long time ago...

[iron2000]

Heres one with the lines:
http://stashbox.org/488233/lines.png

[leeperry]

and it would take 5 secs to Haali to fix it....Casimir found the problem in MPC(Haali wrote the PS scaler code there too), he needs to change the sum of one of his PS scripts to 0.98 instead of 1

and same goes for the terrible jitter w/ 23.976fps MKV and Reclock....it's perfect w/ 25/29.97fps MKV, it would take him a few mins to fix the glitch(bad sync between HMS>HR?).

too bad he has no time and no plan on fixing these bugs(we had a few emails that led to NOTHING :()...this package is a lost cause, waiting for mVR to mature and moving on is the best option(MPC's MKV splitter is also becoming more and more usable, and there's the KMP MKV splitter too)

so much lost potential here, so much fantastic work done.....and yet it's :
-totally unusable w/ Reclock and 23.976 MKV(works perfectly on 25!)
-unusuable in YUY2 coz the 601/709 coeffs are messed up
-can't scale on ATi due to these ghost lines
->50fps videos stutter in the latest build, when they work fine in older ones
..and more bugs I forgot about :o

[mark0077]

and it would take 5 secs to Haali to fix it....Casimir found the problem in MPC(Haali wrote the PS scaler code there too), he needs to change the sum of one of his PS scripts to 0.98 instead of 1

and same goes for the terrible jitter w/ 23.976fps MKV and Reclock....it's perfect w/ 25/29.97fps MKV, it would take him a few mins to fix the glitch.

too bad he has no time and no plan on fixing these bugs(we had a few emails that led to NOTHING)...this package is a lost cause, waiting for mVR to mature and moving on is the best option(MPC's MKV splitter is also becoming more and more usable, and there's KMP's MKV splitter too)

so much lost potential here, so much fantastic work done.....and yet it's unusable :(

leeperry, just a question as I know you used Haali alot in the past. How do you get around the fact that Haali and madVR will have problems playing copy protected material.... even stuff like DVD's. I would consider using madVR for its excellent colorspace conversions etc, and then reclock for vsyncing (although I prefer beliyaal's evr-cp), but i can't due to macrovision errors with madVR and Haali.

[leeperry]

AnyDVD fixes the problem I think? maybe DVD43 too?

[mark0077]

AnyDVD fixes the problem I think? maybe DVD43 too?

Excellent. I just wish madshi had a more urgent interest in audio / video sync stuff.... thanks.

[Mark_A_W]

AnyDVD fixes the problem I think? maybe DVD43 too?

Not on Vista. I cannot play a DVD with Haali on Vista, using the Haali Renderer.

Not a problem, coz DVD is dead :cool:

[leeperry]

Excellent. I just wish madshi had a more urgent interest in audio / video sync stuff.... thanks.
mVR is hell smooth here in 48Hz(as much as HR :eek:), did you fiddle w/ your video timings and install Reclock?

[leeperry]

Not on Vista. I cannot play a DVD with Haali on Vista, using the Haali Renderer.

Not a problem, coz DVD is dead :cool:
I usually played the first VOB of the movie and everything was cool(w/ DVD43 in the back), it even allows Reclock to detect the frame rate(it doesn't work w/ .ifo's as you know ;))

but KMP has a "seamless playback" feature that MPC doesn't, so clicking on the 1st VOB opens all the VOB's at once and seamlessly :)

[mark0077]

mVR is hell smooth here in 48Hz(as much as HR :eek:), did you fiddle w/ your video timings and install Reclock?

My TV has some problems at 24hz that Samsung don't seem to want to fix with firmware updates so I am happy with 60hz. If madVR doesn't do anything to keep audio / video in sync I can't see it ever being useful for me in this regard.

[leeperry]

not even 50Hz? you'd be better off timestretching to 25fps than getting constant judder IMO....plus you can PALSpeedDown and timestretch on top of it, so the audio pitch is genuine.