Haali Renderer

[madshi]

I just wish madshi had a more urgent interest in audio / video sync stuff.... thanks.
I have to build the foundation first before I can put a house on top of it. It doesn't make sense to work on audio/video sync if basic playback doesn't even work perfectly yet. One step at a time.

madVR is just about a week old (!!!). Learn some patience, man!

[mark0077]

Oh I have plenty of patience, relax now!

PS: Everyone appreciates the work on madVR, just excited to see it progress :D:D. Will no doubt be the renderer of choice in the near future. Thanks.

[Jong]

Not on Vista. I cannot play a DVD with Haali on Vista, using the Haali Renderer.

Not a problem, coz DVD is dead :cool:There cannot be a DRM issue if AnyDVD is running. If there is a problem it is with displaying and navigating menus and switching video streams. This can be fixed in the renderer. Sounds like Haali is not going to fix his, but Madshi sounds like he will for sure.

[Jong]

Oh I have plenty of patience, relax now!

PS: Everyone appreciates the work on madVR, just excited to see it progress :D:D. Will no doubt be the renderer of choice in the near future. Thanks.It is right to focus on video quality and reliability first before moving on to fix smoothness/vsync issues.

OT in the Haali thread, I know, but as we are discussing it. I would personally say things will go a lot quicker if MadVR is made so Reclock is able to reliably do its job on vsync rather than reinventing the wheel. We all know how difficult it is to get this right.

That would mean the benefits of VMR9/EVR exclusive mode, no tearing but allowing Reclock to keep frame presentation away from vsync/flip time (by triple buffering?), but with tighter presentation and the quality benefits of MadVR.

[leeperry]

allowing Reclock to keep frame presentation away from vsync/flip time(by triple buffering?)
http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i157809_d3d.png

http://forum-images.hardware.fr/images/perso/lucykc.gif

[Jong]

http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i157809_d3d.png

http://forum-images.hardware.fr/images/perso/lucykc.gifYeah,

a) How do you get this info to display. It used to for me and I disabled it. Now I have no idea how to get it back! :o

b) what does it mean! :o

I think D3D exclusive mode uses triple buffering - it never tears - I'm pretty sure it is truly "flipping" (no blit) the front and back buffers - yet Reclock can still control "vsync". I think it thinks it is controlling "vsync" but in this case it actually controls the time the third buffer is flipped into the back buffer. But I've yet to hear from anyone who really knows the answer, or can be bothered to share it!

[leeperry]

well, open D3DOverrider.exe, force it for MPC and enabled forced triple buffering/VSYNC

then open RivaTuner, go to the monitoring options, add the "D3D events" monitor and there you go.

I can force triple buffering in either the nvidia drivers for MPC/KMP and in D3DOverrider, but HR doesn't care...and it crashes MPC HC+EVR on XP, where it's known to work amazingly well on Vista to make it "stick" to the VSYNC(Reclock never misses the VSYNC fliptime).

for mVR, as you can see it's a no go :o

now for the explanation of what makes it not workee : http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/microsoft.xna.framework.graphics.swapeffect.aspx

[Jong]

well, open D3DOverrider.exe, force it for MPC and enabled forced triple buffering/VSYNC

then open RivaTuner, go to the monitoring options, add the "D3D events" monitor and there you go.

I can force triple buffering in either the nvidia drivers for MPC/KMP and in D3DOverrider, but HR doesn't care...and it crashes MPC HC+EVR on XP, where it's known to work amazingly well on Vista to make it "stick" to the VSYNC(Reclock never misses the VSYNC fliptime).

for mVR, as you can see it's a no go :o

now for the explanation of what makes it not workee : http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/microsoft.xna.framework.graphics.swapeffect.aspxAh yeah thanks. I had forgotten the events were enabled/disabled in Rivatuner :o. Anyway, all is very OT. Will continue elsewhere.

[Mark_A_W]

it even allows Reclock to detect the frame rate(it doesn't work w/ .ifo's as you know ;))

I've never noticed that.

But I really don't watch DVDs anymore. On the rare occasion that I do I tend to convert it to a single MPG anyway.

DVD's get watched on the Tele using the XBMC, not on the projector using the PC.

HD is here and I'm not going back, not unless it's a really cool film (I did just rent Nightbreed on DVD...cool).

Mark

[pokazene_maslo]

Hello. I'm also having that problem with those "ghost lines" when using bicubic resizer and zooming video. I tried MPCHC 1.2.1043.0 x64, 1.2.908 x64, 1.2.908 x86 all with same results. That trick with ATT limiting PS to 1.4 is working.
OS: vista x64 sp1
GPU: ATI HD 3870, cat 9.3

[Mark_A_W]

There cannot be a DRM issue if AnyDVD is running. If there is a problem it is with displaying and navigating menus and switching video streams. This can be fixed in the renderer. Sounds like Haali is not going to fix his, but Madshi sounds like he will for sure.


I get a Macrovision error, even with Anydvd running. Go Figure.

[Jong]

It is probably not a real DRM problem, but is being interpreted as such. Did you see this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1272072#post1272072)?

[LigH]

Excuse me ... is this an example of the "ATI ghost-lines"? A user of the german doom9/Gleitz board reported it for a combination of kmplayer and Haali renderer, on an ATI HD2600 Pro.

http://mitglied.lycos.de/ghumpf/NIM.png

[Astrophizz]

Those look like them, though slightly different from other examples I've seen. It probably varies though.

[LigH]

I got reports that limiting the Pixel Shader version helped. Praise the ATT developer for allowing to save a link that calls the player with the tweak and resets it after quitting it.

[leeperry]

sucks that Haali totally gave up on HR, it barely works when it could be the best renderer ever w/ some minor polishing :(

[Anima123]

I got reports that limiting the Pixel Shader version helped. Praise the ATT developer for allowing to save a link that calls the player with the tweak and resets it after quitting it.

I've searched a little but failed to find how to limit the Pixel Shader version. Could you please give us a link of how-to?

[leeperry]

I've searched a little but failed to find how to limit the Pixel Shader version. Could you please give us a link of how-to?
read the last page or so, it's also possible on nvidia but requires a reboot.

[leeperry]

BTW, I dunno if you guys noticed but HR w/ Reclock in 96.000Hz is simply perfect!

you can seek as much as you want, it NEVER misses the VSYNC :eek:

and the jitter is very stable! double :eek:

if only it worked this well in 48.000Hz :(

now I want a projector that accepts 96Hz....I will try to contact Haali again, maybe he'll have some time to fix HR a bit :)

[Mark_A_W]

Not for me. MadVR at 96hz spanks it.

I've been running 96hz for years and Haali has only been "ok".

[leeperry]

well ok, but KMP doesn't support mVR...and every renderer in MPC(EVR/mVR/VMR9) likes to randomly drop frames after 1H of continuous playback on XP(not just for me, apparently it's a VSYNC lock problem that only Aero or exclusive D3D can fix altogether).

what is amazing is that HR *never* misses the VSYNC in 96Hz, I can seek zillion times and the jitter is always in the 1-3ms region...and it hardly drifts :eek:

in 48Hz, it takes a friggin' miracle to catch the VSYNC properly :(

yeah, as soon as KMP will support mVR(it's in the works I heard) and W7 will be RTM, I might take the big jump...still HR is smooth as hell in 48Hz if you're lucky enough to catch the VSYNC properly, and it doesn't hiccup after 1H on XP :)

I guess Haali will never improve HR, so it's as good as it's gonna get for me atm...and whatever the GUI or the seamless playback will never put me off KMP :D

[Kazuya]

96Hz looks attractive but I haven't any display to test it ! :(
I still use HR at 50Hz with KMP... VSync is good most of time, but needs a rapid control at beginning of the movie.

[chuuey]

i have some tearing happening on my 9400m, using coreavc and cuda acceleration, i guess the memory on the card is lacking, maybe i should upgrade the ram then it will assign more to it, anyone has a similar setup? Maybe i should change something in the renderer settings? other then that it's really great :>

has anyone managed to get this working at all without tearing from time to time on a card with 128vram? I guess i should upgrade the memory to get 256, i hope that solves my problems with all the other renderers than overlays and vmr

[chuuey]

Ok, sorry for the bump on this but i wanted to share my find today, first of all i noticed that every time i played video on my kuro with 24hz output, i was getting a lot of tearing, at first i blamed it on Cuda and coreavc, well, ffdshow did the same thing, so i decided to take this deeper. First thing: my 9400m does not display proper 24hz signal, the refresh rate should be 23.976 and actually it displays in 23.970, so i created a new custom resolution in the control panel, and forced the refresh rate to 23.976, and what do you know? No more tearing, Haali Renderer and CoreAVC+ CUDA, works very nice, i bumped the buffer to 64mb and frames to 4 in the settings, works very well, try it and maybe for people that had this issues this will be a nice solution, btw drivers version 186.81 WQHL and 256mb of vram, cheers :)

[BetaBoy]

well ok, but KMP doesn't support mVR...and every renderer in MPC(EVR/mVR/VMR9) likes to randomly drop frames after 1H of continuous playback on XP(not just for me, apparently it's a VSYNC lock problem that only Aero or exclusive D3D can fix altogether).

what is amazing is that HR *never* misses the VSYNC in 96Hz, I can seek zillion times and the jitter is always in the 1-3ms region...and it hardly drifts :eek:

in 48Hz, it takes a friggin' miracle to catch the VSYNC properly :(

yeah, as soon as KMP will support mVR(it's in the works I heard) and W7 will be RTM, I might take the big jump...still HR is smooth as hell in 48Hz if you're lucky enough to catch the VSYNC properly, and it doesn't hiccup after 1H on XP :)

I guess Haali will never improve HR, so it's as good as it's gonna get for me atm...and whatever the GUI or the seamless playback will never put me off KMP :D

Haali has addressed all of these issues in the upcoming 2.0 version of the Haali Media Splitter.

[Mark_A_W]

Haali has addressed all of these issues in the upcoming 2.0 version of the Haali Media Splitter.


Ok...


SPILL IT!!

Exactly how "upcoming" is upcoming???

[Thunderbolt8]

just like "done" in "it's done when it's done"

[leeperry]

Haali has addressed all of these issues in the upcoming 2.0 version of the Haali Media Splitter.
ok, thanks for the headsup BetaBoy! :eek:

well, if HR could never miss the VSYNC on XP SP3(Beliyaal has shown that it was entirely possible w/ his EVR CP), and not having that god**** annoying ascending/descending jitter problem w/ Reclock on 23.976fps MKV(problem doesn't occur w/ 25 or 29.97)...this would be really awesome! apparently there's too much jitter in HMS's output and it slowly desyncs from HR :confused:

but honestly, I think madVR is sharper and smoother than HR(in perfectly matched refresh rates of course like 25fps@50.000/23.976@48.000Hz etc), and it's now supported by KMP :o

I've explained the problem many many times to Haali, each time he told me he was swamped w/ work and didn't care for Reclock support anyway...

[THX-UltraII]

Ok, I have some issues with the bt.601 and .709 thing that I don t understand and I think that this is the topic where to get answers. (see also my topic http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=150086).

I found out that when I play HD content (.mkv 1080p material) I get different results of the video that is shown when I use different renderers/programs/combinations. I want to know which one is giving me the correct video. In the tests I ve done there are 2 different screenshots.

SCREENSHOT 1:
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/1196/btmt1.png

SCREENSHOT 2:
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/7241/ampc1.png

Screenshot 1 seems a little greenish and screenshot 2 more blue. I already found out that it all has something to do with the .601 and .709 settings but I don t know which screenshot is 'right'.

Here are the results (all with the same 1080p .mkv file):
- Total Media Theater 3: SCREENSHOT1
- MPC-HC EVR with BT.601 -> BT.709 shader: SCREENSHOT1
- MPC-HC VMR9 with BT.601 -> BT.709 shader: SCREENSHOT1
- MPC-HC EVR without shader: SCREENSHOT2
- MPC-HC VMR9 without shader: SCREENSHOT2
- MPC-HC with Haali Renderer and YUV Colorspace on the Default BT.601: SCREENSHOT1
- MPC-HC with Haali Renderer and YUV Colorspace on BT.709: SCREENSHOT2

[kutjong]

All HD (720p and larger) material should be in BT.709 colorspace, but there's really no way to be sure. Most renderers usually switch to BT.709 when the input resolution is 720p (or 1280 width) or greater.

Anyway, I usually don't see any difference if the wrong colorspace is used so I don't care much anymore, I just leave colorspace to Auto in Haali renderer.
As for your screenshots, I think nr. 2 looks more natural.

[THX-UltraII]

thxz for your reply but I m still waiting for the correct answer: which screenshot is the correct one....... In other words: which renderer/program/combination is correct to use.

btw.: if screenshot 1 is the correct one, Arcsofts Total Media Theater (commercial) has a big problem and sends out the wrong video

[leeperry]

the 601/709 coeffs in HR are severely screwed up..use ffdshow in RGB32HQ as reference.

ati cards will only do 709 if y>719, so 1280*5xx movies will be decoded in 601

[THX-UltraII]

the 601/709 coeffs in HR are severely screwed up..use ffdshow in RGB32HQ as reference.

ati cards will only do 709 if y>719, so 1280*5xx movies will be decoded in 601

So...............WHICH screenshot/setting/combination I posted is correct??

Like, I said before, IS eg. tmt3 giving the correct picture??

[leeperry]

I don't know, use this test pattern in RGB32HQ REC.709 ffdshow, then compare it: http://www.sendspace.com/file/spmmas

you might be shocked by how wrong HR is...and its 601 coeffs are just as wrong..

[THX-UltraII]

I don't know, use this test pattern in RGB32HQ REC.709 ffdshow, then compare it: http://www.sendspace.com/file/spmmas

you might be shocked by how wrong HR is...and its 601 coeffs are just as wrong..

So your saying that FFdshow does a good job in this 709/601 thing? (still dont know exactly what it is). Is it possible to use ffdshow to ONLY do this REC.709 you talk about?

[leeperry]

output RGB32HQ from ffdshow, done :)

but it takes more CPU than HR in YUY2 of course.

Luma (video) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luma_(video)#Rec._601_luma_versus_Rec._709_luma_coefficients)

[THX-UltraII]

output RGB32HQ from ffdshow, done :)

but it takes more CPU than HR in YUY2 of course.

Luma (video) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luma_(video)#Rec._601_luma_versus_Rec._709_luma_coefficients)

and what about the input section of ffdshow? I assume that I have to do something over there in order to 'activate' ffdshow when running a file.

[leeperry]

"raw video" : "all supported" would help I guess

[THX-UltraII]

I don't know, use this test pattern in RGB32HQ REC.709 ffdshow, then compare it: http://www.sendspace.com/file/spmmas

you might be shocked by how wrong HR is...and its 601 coeffs are just as wrong..

When playing this file, what is correct? Seeing al the squares displayed?

I still don t understand it entirely: I have my ATI CCC setting on Full RGB output. If I use this, you would say that I dont need the ffdshow HQ RGB32 output?

[leeperry]

use ffdshow as a color reference, then compare against your other players...they should output the SAME EXACT colors.

might need to remux to .mp4 or .ts as I'm not sure PDVD or TMT open MKV..I think you can just rename to .avi and PDVD would open it

[THX-UltraII]

When I play a BD folder (CERTIFICATE/BDMV) with MPC-HC I CAN select subtitles (with Haali Media Splitter filter) but they do not show up. With TMT3 it works fine so the subs ARE there.

What could be wrong?

I use latest MPC-HC build with EVR custom, latest directX, FFdshow video decoder RGB32HQ output, ATI 4350 with 9.10 driver

[THX-UltraII]

any words on a release date of Haali Media Splitter 2.0?

[leeperry]

it's being betatested as we speak ;)

[tmbt]

Hi guys,
talking about math. Haali render is better in terms of quality than custom evr ?
From what i can understand reading this forum i can obtain better quality using MadVr. But i got some problems using that render so i would to know if i should use custom evr or haali render.
Other question : what's new the haali 2.0 ?
Thx

[chuuey]

well from what i saw on the forums, a bug with 24hz output and CoreAVC is no longer present, can't wait :)

[Klaus_1250]

it's being betatested as we speak ;)
Do you have a download link? Latest beta I could find is quite old.

[Keiyakusha]

There is no any new public betas. Final version of haali's tools should be released around this week...

[clsid]

It's a private beta test.

I can confirm that TrueHD is working with yesterdays beta.

[STaRGaZeR]

:cool:

[THX-UltraII]

any thoughts if Haali Splitter will be released early this week?