tsMuxeR update for 3D blu-ray

[HWK]

SquallMX
I think so. Looks like it is DVD fab issue. But If you compare dvd-fab generated ssif file with tsMuxeR generated ssif (you can run ts muxer with .ssif file extension) I think this files will be identical. This problem not in the file data, but lies deeper: I suppose DVD fab allocate sectors in ISO file in the wrong way. It is cause large seek distance for BD-ROM drive during playback.
So, the solution is generate ISO file directly.

Physic would consider making iso high priority. Perhaps after you are done with subtitle, so we can eliminate fab virtual drive from equation.

[Cedvano]

Physic would consider making iso high priority. Perhaps after you are done with subtitle, so we can eliminate fab virtual drive from equation.

It would be well because I have always errors on big movies.
TMT6 or BD player bug.

[SeeMoreDigital]

physic,

I know that you are fully committed to developing tsMuxeR so it's able to create 3D Blu-ray compliant muxes. But has any consideration been given to developing tsMuxeR so it's able to create 3D AVCHD compliant muxes as well?


Cheers

[videofan3d]

@HWK
@Physics

Following HWK's advise I found in Intel Media SDK (http://intel.com/software/mediasdk) FREE MVC ENCODER.
I'd like to test its quality.

There are few examples in this SDK - already compiled for W7/8 32/64bit.
One of them is "sample_encoder.exe"

This sample_encoder can encode input .yuv-files (in 420) into elementary AVC and also MVC(!) streams.

I performed such test - resulting elementary streams .h264 can be downloaded from here http://www.uloz.to/xuzJNqPv/testintelmvcencode-zip

AVC stream can be muxed and checked into m2ts using tsMuxer 1.12.3(a)
Unfortunately MVC stream is not recognized. :-(
(Probably there is only some different identification flag - similarly to AVCHD-3D elementary streams which I mentioned earlier)

@Physics, could you please check this?

If quality of this MVC Encoder is acceptable, I guess it will be great achievement for all 3D enthusiast!

[physic]

videofan3d
Yes, I'll check it. Any VMC should work.

[HWK]

@HWK
@Physics

Following HWK's advise I found in Intel Media SDK (http://intel.com/software/mediasdk) FREE MVC ENCODER.
I'd like to test its quality.

There are few examples in this SDK - already compiled for W7/8 32/64bit.
One of them is "sample_encoder.exe"

This sample_encoder can encode input .yuv-files (in 420) into elementary AVC and also MVC(!) streams.

I performed such test - resulting elementary streams .h264 can be downloaded from here http://www.uloz.to/xuzJNqPv/testintelmvcencode-zip

AVC stream can be muxed and checked into m2ts using tsMuxer 1.12.3(a)
Unfortunately MVC stream is not recognized. :-(
(Probably there is only some different identification flag - similarly to AVCHD-3D elementary streams which I mentioned earlier)

@Physics, could you please check this?

If quality of this MVC Encoder is acceptable, I guess it will be great achievement for all 3D enthusiast!

videofan3d
Yes, I'll check it. Any VMC should work.

I just ran file through media info and here is the result of file
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
File size : 7.08 MiB
Duration : 959ms
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 61.9 Mbps

Video
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Stereo High@L4.0
MultiView_Count : 2
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Duration : 959ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 18.2 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.366
Stream size : 2.08 MiB (29%)

Shouldn't be level 4.1 instead of 4.0. Also videofan3d try again with output combined in one file.

[HWK]

videofan3d did you download from Intel directly or link I send you?

[videofan3d]

...
Shouldn't be level 4.1 instead of 4.0. Also videofan3d try again with output combined in one file.

Level 4.1 and 4.0 should differ only in maximum allowed bitrate, not in format - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC#Levels.
tsMuxer refused it with message "Can't detect strem type"
I believe that Roman will easily identify where is the difference (it will be likely some identification flag only)

sample_encode doesn't allow any setting of level.
It has only very few parameters - e.g.:

sample_encode.exe mvc
-i REALTEST3D_L.yuv -i REALTEST3D_R.yuv
-o TEST_L.h264 -o TEST_R.h264
-viewoutput
-b 40000 -f 23.976
-w 1920 -h 1080

[videofan3d]

videofan3d did you download from Intel directly or link I send you?

I downloaded it directly from Intel pages - which is the native source.

yuv-files can be easily prepared by ffmpeg.

AVC base stream is fine, I can mux it into m2ts and then play it regularly. Only MVC was refused by tsMuxer 1.12.3(a)

[videofan3d]

Also videofan3d try again with output combined in one file.


I also created combined output - single elementary stream with both views (which I honestly don't understand what is it good for). Same result - refused by tsMuxer as "Can't detect stream type".

Separate elementary streams seem to me more usefull: can be muxed as standard regular 2D, and also 3D.

[Cedvano]

This is many days I test it with sample_multi_transcode by Intel. And he don't want encode. (Freeze)

For a movie, a YUV file is too big. I think the MVC is not a Blu-ray Spec.

[videofan3d]

This is many days I test it with sample_multi_transcode by Intel. And he don't want encode. (Freeze)

For a movie, a YUV file is too big. I think the MVC is not a Blu-ray Spec.

MediaInfo detected it correctly as StereoHigh@L4.0 - so it should be MVC stream. I hope that Roman will succeed to process it and mux it. :-)

Of course that yuv files are big - it is uncompressed video. :-)
It is 3 MB per 2D-frame - 75 MB per second - over 500 GB per 2 hours.
Current drives are 2 TB - no problem :-) and you need this diskspace only temporarily - during processing.

It is worth to try it and check the quality.

[Cedvano]

I have 8To of HDD, but the others no.
I work on sample_multi_transcode to find the problem.
Can you tell me how do you make a YUV for the MVC video ?
Thanks

[videofan3d]

This is many days I test it with sample_multi_transcode by Intel. And he don't want encode. (Freeze)

For a movie, a YUV file is too big. I think the MVC is not a Blu-ray Spec.

Moreover, I don't think it freezes.
It just took a long time to encode (h264 is complicated algorithm, it is also slow).

My above mentioned samples are 84 frames only, and it also took some time to encode on my i3-CPU. sample_encode is command line application - and doesn't show any progress bar - thus it is confusing and looks like it is frozen.

[SeeMoreDigital]

AVC base stream is fine, I can mux it into m2ts and then play it regularly. Only MVC was refused by tsMuxer 1.12.3(a)
DGIndex and MKVmergeGUI refuse the MVC stream too ;)

[Cedvano]

Moreover, I don't think it freezes.
It just took a long time to encode (h264 is complicated algorithm, it is also slow).

My above mentioned samples are 84 frames only, and it also took some time to encode on my i3-CPU. sample_encode is command line application - and doesn't show any progress bar - thus it is confusing and looks like it is frozen.

It's stop here :

Par file is: (null)


And nothing else. Have you test it ?

[videofan3d]

I have 8To of HDD, but the others no.
I work on sample_multi_transcode to find the problem.
Can you tell me how do you make a YUV for the MVC video ?
Thanks

My sample above is from 3D-camcorder Panasonic Z10000, which creates AVCHD-3D (in single m2ts-file)

This m2ts file I decompressed to L.avi and R.avi using "MVC to AVI Converter" (see www.3dtv.at)
and each avi converted to YUV using ffmpeg.

[videofan3d]

It's stop here :

Par file is: (null)


And nothing else. Have you test it ?

Not yet.
Since at this moment I cannot process further a MVC file, I'll wait to next version on tsMuxer :-)

Once I'll be able to create regular BD3D structure and watch it on 3DTV, I plan to do more testing of this MVC encoding ;-)

[SeeMoreDigital]

My sample above is from 3D-camcorder Panasonic Z10000, which creates AVCHD-3D (in single m2ts-file)Actually the Panasonic Z10000 creates .MTS files... Which is why I asked this question (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1644502#post1644502)...

[videofan3d]

Actually the Panasonic Z10000 creates .MTS files... Which is why I asked this question (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1644502#post1644502)...

Yes, when I read your post I assumed you are targeting the same. :-)
I also provided to physic samples of AVCHD-3D structure ...

m2ts and mts should be in principle (almost) the same structure. AVCHD standard uses 8.3 file names, therefore they changed extension to MTS.

AVCHD-3D muxes L and R view into single file, while BD3D uses two separate m2ts files - this is because of backward compatibility with older standalone BD-players.

Also, SSIF-file in BD3D structure is some kind of virtual file, like symlink to multiplexed L.m2ts and R.m2ts.
I guess this is because of technology - laser-beam on standalone BD-player needs to read both in single track, it cannot swiftly periodically switch and read two different files.

[Sharc]

physic,

I know that you are fully committed to developing tsMuxeR so it's able to create 3D Blu-ray compliant muxes. But has any consideration been given to developing tsMuxeR so it's able to create 3D AVCHD compliant muxes as well?


Cheers

Out of curiosity: what is the benefit of authoring to AVCHD format instead of BD3D which is the stronger standard I believe?

[HWK]

Out of curiosity: what is the benefit of authoring to AVCHD format instead of BD3D which is the stronger standard I believe?

I would guess it offer more flexibility to end user and AVCHD does not manadate support MVC you can have two avc and 60 fps to support 3D.

Also with increasing efficiency of X264 Encoder it may possible to create 3D avc hd without having mvc encoder which is still quite expensive for average joe.

[rusty666]

are we not going to be able to play the m2ts from external harddrive through 3d blu ray player?

[Sharc]

are we not going to be able to play the m2ts from external harddrive through 3d blu ray player?
Not in general. It depends which 3D formats your "3D blu-ray player" (standalone, TV, PC...) supports. Therefore it is safest to stick to standards like Blu-ray 3D or perhaps AVCHD 2.0 3D.
For the PC there are flexible 3D SW Players available like BINO (http://bino3d.org/) (free) or Stereoscopic Player (http://www.3dtv.at/Downloads/Index_en.aspx) which "eat" almost everything....

[rek1978]

Hello guys,

I am trying to rip a 3D title i own to my hard disk just to see that is possible.
By using dvdfab i ripped my movie to an iso file.This year i also got a sony s4100 blu ray player which reads bd structures and avchd from its usb.
This player can not read iso files and tried to copy the contents of the iso by using the dvdfab's virtual drive to my external disk.
I immediately noticed that the file size of my 3D movie was doubled in my hard disk.
Can i by using tsmuxer newest edition to copy the movie by its original size??what are these complicated siff files??
My player can also read from usb and optical disks avchd 3d structures.Can convert the movie to avchd 3d by using the latest tsmuxer??

[Chumbo]

Out of curiosity: what is the benefit of authoring to AVCHD format instead of BD3D which is the stronger standard I believe?
I believe AVCHD can be authored to DVD media.

[airsoft]

Hi,

are you planning a support for TrueHD audio track?

Regards,
Hristo

[may24]

@rek1978: To answer you question Copy the movie by its original size: Simply open your fav. file explorer, select all files and drag-drop them to your harddrive.
I don't think TSMuxer can do it. I tried a few demo files from the internet but the result didn't play in my dads SONY BDP-S 4100 ...

[SeeMoreDigital]

are you planning a support for TrueHD audio track?
It's already supported...

[Sharc]

@HWK
@Physics

Following HWK's advise I found in Intel Media SDK (http://intel.com/software/mediasdk) FREE MVC ENCODER.
I'd like to test its quality.

There are few examples in this SDK - already compiled for W7/8 32/64bit.
One of them is "sample_encoder.exe"

This sample_encoder can encode input .yuv-files (in 420) into elementary AVC and also MVC(!) streams.

I performed such test - resulting elementary streams .h264 can be downloaded from here http://www.uloz.to/xuzJNqPv/testintelmvcencode-zip

AVC stream can be muxed and checked into m2ts using tsMuxer 1.12.3(a)
Unfortunately MVC stream is not recognized. :-(
(Probably there is only some different identification flag - similarly to AVCHD-3D elementary streams which I mentioned earlier)

@Physics, could you please check this?

If quality of this MVC Encoder is acceptable, I guess it will be great achievement for all 3D enthusiast!
I strongly believe that something is wrong with the dependent (MVC) stream. Neither Bino nor Stereoscopic Player could read it. So I don't think ist a tsMuxeR issue; there is probably something wrong with the Left (dependent) stream.
The visual quality of the Right stream looks ok IMO; anyway the bitrate is rather high (>20Mbps).

[airsoft]

It's already supported...

since when?

D:\Install\DivX\eac3to>eac3to x:\ 1)
M2TS, 2 video tracks, 4 audio tracks, 3 subtitle tracks, 2:34:24, 24p /1.001
1: Chapters, 22 chapters
2: h264/AVC (left eye), 1080p24 /1.001 (16:9)
3: h264/AVC (right eye), 1080p24 /1.001 (16:9)
4: TrueHD/AC3, English, 7.1 channels, 48kHz
(embedded: AC3, 5.1 channels, 640kbps, 48kHz, dialnorm: -27dB)
5: DTS Hi-Res, Russian, 7.1 channels, 2046kbps, 48kHz
(core: DTS, 5.1 channels, 16 bits, 1509kbps, 48kHz)
6: AC3, Russian, 5.1 channels, 640kbps, 48kHz, dialnorm: -27dB
7: AC3, Ukrainian, 5.1 channels, 384kbps, 48kHz, dialnorm: -27dB
8: Subtitle (PGS), English
9: Subtitle (PGS), Russian
10: Subtitle (PGS), Ukrainian


after adding file X:\BDMV\STREAM\SSIF\00008.ssif in tsMuxerGUI version 1.12.3(a) I see this


MUXOPT --no-pcr-on-video-pid --new-audio-pes --vbr --vbv-len=500
V_MPEG4/ISO/MVC, "X:\BDMV\STREAM\SSIF\00008.ssif", insertSEI, contSPS, track=4114
S_HDMV/PGS, "X:\BDMV\STREAM\SSIF\00008.ssif", fps=23.976, track=4608, lang=eng
S_HDMV/PGS, "X:\BDMV\STREAM\SSIF\00008.ssif", fps=23.976, track=4609, lang=rus
S_HDMV/PGS, "X:\BDMV\STREAM\SSIF\00008.ssif", fps=23.976, track=4610, lang=ukr


if I'm doing something wrong, please let me know

Regards,
Hristo

[SeeMoreDigital]

Dolby TrueHD with AC3 core works fine for me: -

http://i41.tinypic.com/214ba6w.png

[HWK]

since when?

D:\Install\DivX\eac3to>eac3to x:\ 1)
M2TS, 2 video tracks, 4 audio tracks, 3 subtitle tracks, 2:34:24, 24p /1.001
1: Chapters, 22 chapters
2: h264/AVC (left eye), 1080p24 /1.001 (16:9)
3: h264/AVC (right eye), 1080p24 /1.001 (16:9)
4: TrueHD/AC3, English, 7.1 channels, 48kHz
(embedded: AC3, 5.1 channels, 640kbps, 48kHz, dialnorm: -27dB)
5: DTS Hi-Res, Russian, 7.1 channels, 2046kbps, 48kHz
(core: DTS, 5.1 channels, 16 bits, 1509kbps, 48kHz)
6: AC3, Russian, 5.1 channels, 640kbps, 48kHz, dialnorm: -27dB
7: AC3, Ukrainian, 5.1 channels, 384kbps, 48kHz, dialnorm: -27dB
8: Subtitle (PGS), English
9: Subtitle (PGS), Russian
10: Subtitle (PGS), Ukrainian


after adding file X:\BDMV\STREAM\SSIF\00008.ssif in tsMuxerGUI version 1.12.3(a) I see this


MUXOPT --no-pcr-on-video-pid --new-audio-pes --vbr --vbv-len=500
V_MPEG4/ISO/MVC, "X:\BDMV\STREAM\SSIF\00008.ssif", insertSEI, contSPS, track=4114
S_HDMV/PGS, "X:\BDMV\STREAM\SSIF\00008.ssif", fps=23.976, track=4608, lang=eng
S_HDMV/PGS, "X:\BDMV\STREAM\SSIF\00008.ssif", fps=23.976, track=4609, lang=rus
S_HDMV/PGS, "X:\BDMV\STREAM\SSIF\00008.ssif", fps=23.976, track=4610, lang=ukr


if I'm doing something wrong, please let me know

Regards,
Hristo

Dolby TrueHD with AC3 core works fine for me: -

http://i41.tinypic.com/214ba6w.png

OP opened ssif file directly instead of opening mpls for corresponding title which may explain why it doesn't process True HD audio. Another possibility I can think off is authoring bug in title.

[Ghitulescu]

I believe AVCHD can be authored to DVD media.

AVCHD was designed for DVD media (camcorders).
A lot of older players did not accept BDMV on DVD in the past, not sure whether FW upgrades solved this, but the not that old generations, that also allows for external media, should have no problem with playing back a DVD containing BDMV.

Today AVCHD in its second version allows for higher bitrates, 50p/60p (which do not exist in BDMV), 3D and other gimmicks, but still restricts the audio to AC-3 IIRC and no subtitles.

[SeeMoreDigital]

AVCHD was designed for DVD media (camcorders).
Nowadays AVCHD records directly onto high capacity memory cards/sticks, which can be directly inserted into various makes and models of TV's and Blu-ray players. It's primarily a 'solid state' format. But this 'disc legacy' makes the format very flexible.


Today AVCHD in its second version allows for higher bitrates, 50p/60p (which do not exist in BDMV), 3D and other gimmicks, but still restricts the audio to AC-3 IIRC and no subtitles.Interestingly, basic 'time and date' information is stored in the PGS subtitle format. So it might be possible to increase this to 'full blown' subtitles.

Essentially, it's impossible to know how flexible the AVCHD format can be made to be, until we get a muxing application ;)

Anyway... We are now running a little 'off-topic' for this particular topic...

[ssuper2k]

The audio tracks go inside the m2ts, not in the ssif.

So you need to give tsmuxer either an mpls or an m2ts

[tymoxa]

The audio tracks go inside the m2ts, not in the ssif.

Not true:
http://iceimg.com/i/e5/5b/ecb1bef1c3.jpg (http://iceimg.com/i/7d/fe/c8e7ed63ab.jpg)

[bigotti5]

Originally AVCHD is specified for SD Memory Card, Memory Stick, Build-In-HDD and 8cm DVD.
High bitrate specification removes 8cm DVD.

[HWK]

Not true:
http://iceimg.com/i/e5/5b/ecb1bef1c3.jpg (http://iceimg.com/i/7d/fe/c8e7ed63ab.jpg)

SSIF file point to M2TS file and that is why you are able to see audio and subtitle tracks.

[tymoxa]

SSIF file point to M2TS file and that is why you are able to see audio and subtitle tracks.

I know that. Actually, SSIF file point to both M2TS: main and sub.
From BD-ROM-AV-WhitePaper:
http://iceimg.com/i/37/f4/afe02cf65b.jpg (http://iceimg.com/i/dd/f5/3e85e3fcc4.png)

[HWK]

I know that. Actually, SSIF file point to both M2TS: main and sub.
From BD-ROM-AV-WhitePaper:
http://iceimg.com/i/37/f4/afe02cf65b.jpg (http://iceimg.com/i/dd/f5/3e85e3fcc4.png)

I am aware of it as well since I have document too. Just out of curiosity in post 237 you replied to post “The audio tracks go inside the m2ts, not in the ssif.” And you said not true.

When you know SSIF just links main and sub ts file.

[tymoxa]

Just out of curiosity in post 237 you replied to post “The audio tracks go inside the m2ts, not in the ssif.” And you said not true.
I mean that it does not matter what you thrown in tsmuxer, main m2ts or ssif. In both cases audio track will be available in gui.

[physic]

New update is ready:
tsMuxeR 1.12.6(b) (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0VmPcEZTp8NeUE2TDd5a1R4YXM/edit?usp=sharing)

- fixed 3d subtitles. Add ability to select 3D offset plane for subtitles
- add new parameter '--start-time'. This parameter define time for first video frame in output file. This parameter is filled automatically (too keep same input time) if open MPLS file.
- several more minor fixes in transport stream to improve Blu-ray compatibility
- fixed E-AC3 codec

[HWK]

New update is ready:
tsMuxeR 1.12.6(b) (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0VmPcEZTp8NeUE2TDd5a1R4YXM/edit?usp=sharing)

- fixed 3d subtitles. Add ability to select 3D offset plane for subtitles
- add new parameter '--start-time'. This parameter define time for first video frame in output file. This parameter is filled automatically (too keep same input time) if open MPLS file.
- several more minor fixes in transport stream to improve Blu-ray compatibility
- fixed E-AC3 codec

Physic, can you elaborate on first two point. Also some movie start with black screen and have audio would second feature of tsmuxer cause problem with that.

[videofan3d]

New update is ready:
tsMuxeR 1.12.6(b) (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0VmPcEZTp8NeUE2TDd5a1R4YXM/edit?usp=sharing)

- fixed 3d subtitles. Add ability to select 3D offset plane for subtitles


What does mean parameter "3d offset: plane #1" ?

When I tested previous version 1.12.3, I was under impression that it already preserved 3D-position of PGS-subtitles.
At least on example which I had, all subtitles were presented "in space" in front of the movie-scene (and even independently for each scene).
And more, without 3D-glasses I noticed a shift between L and R.
Was it wrong?

[SubJunk]

Thanks so much for these Blu-ray compatibility improvements. I think they have fixed a big bug for me.

[rusty666]

can anyboy do a sample m2ts see if works on my blu ray player with external harddrive as i cant download it for some reason

[rusty666]

or is the improvements just for the ones puttin it on a isk

[rusty666]

i mean on disk

[HWK]

rusty666, were you able to download tsmuxer again?