eac3to - audio conversion tool

[baconharvest]

If I purchase the Bluray/HDDVD Plugin, will Nero ShowTime be able to play the mkv file with eac3 audio?

[madshi]

If I purchase the Bluray/HDDVD Plugin, will Nero ShowTime be able to play the mkv file with eac3 audio?
I don't know exactly what Nero ShowTime will or will not be able to do. I'm only using the Nero Audio Decoder. But I'm planning to (still didn't find the time to do so) release a little tweak that allows using the Nero Audio Decoder inside of Media Player Classic and ZoomPlayer etc with DRC turned off. This tweak will only work for Nero 7, though.

[Thunderbolt8]

remuxed the blu-ray of casino royale. after remuxing the video with 23,9760239 fps and converting the LPCM track to flac both tracks had exactly(!) the same length. no delay needed at all.

[nautilus7]

@ Madshi

I don't understand why the trueHD track has to muxed into an .evo container before converted to wav/flac.
I know that the initial .evo has to demuxed in order to remove the dialog norm, but i don't get why it has to muxed again.

Thanks!

[madshi]

I don't understand why the trueHD track has to muxed into an .evo container before converted to wav/flac.
I know that the initial .evo has to demuxed in order to remove the dialog norm, but i don't get why it has to muxed again.
There's no other way (that I know) to feed the Nero Audio Decoder with the TrueHD data. It only accepts input from the Nero Splitter and the Nero Splitter doesn't handle demuxed TrueHD files.

[nautilus7]

It just looked odd to me. I see now. Thanks for the clarification.

[nautilus7]

These pics are from the "Letters from Iwo Jima" HD DVD.
It contains an eac3 and a trueHD track.
I demuxed both with latest version of eac3to using nero filters.

eac3 track
http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/7480/jimaeac3xx6.th.png (http://img475.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jimaeac3xx6.png)

trueHD track
http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/1931/jimathdry0.th.png (http://img458.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jimathdry0.png)

How do you explain that eac3 has higher picks than trueHD? Is this random (has to do with the specific movie)?

About calculating the delay: Have you ever find an eac3 track that needs to be delayed?

[madshi]

These pics are from the "Letters from Iwo Jima" HD DVD. It contains an eac3 and a trueHD track. I demuxed both with latest version of eac3to using nero filters.

How do you explain that eac3 has higher picks than trueHD? Is this random (has to do with the specific movie)?
I'm not totally sure about that. I think I did compare TrueHD vs. E-AC3 and they had identical peaks to me, but it's some time ago so I'm not really sure. Maybe you can check again with the next movie? I don't think this is caused by a bug in eac3to, but I'm not sure 100% about that, either...

About calculating the delay: Have you ever find an eac3 track that needs to be delayed?
I think I've had some E-AC3 tracks which needed a delay. It's rather the exception than the rule, though.

[nautilus7]

I 'll check with another movie, like you said, and i 'll let you know.

[Thunderbolt8]

what is actually needed for TrueHD 7.1 support for eac3to ?
does eac3to actually differentiate between dts-hd hr and MA and that 16-bit downsampling applies only to HR, or does it apply to both?

[madshi]

what is actually needed for TrueHD 7.1 support for eac3to ?
A decoder which can decode 7.1. Maybe the new open source decoder in ffmpeg can do that. We'll have to wait a bit for that. Do you have a movie with 7.1 TrueHD? Which one?

does eac3to actually differentiate between dts-hd hr and MA and that 16-bit downsampling applies only to HR, or does it apply to both?
I'm not sure what you mean exactly. Which 16bit downsampling do you mean?

[Taktaal]

Now that Nero 7 isn't sold anymore, there's no way to decode DD+ tracks, isn't there?

I sure hope an Open Source DD+ codec comes soon, that's pretty much the holy grail of free HD playback right now.

[madshi]

Now that Nero 7 isn't sold anymore
Nero 7 Essentials can be had for very cheap on Ebay. And I think it works together with the HD DVD/Blu-Ray plugin.

[Wilbert]

I'm not sure what the difference is between Blu-Ray TrueHD and TrueHD (anyone?), but the creator of the MLP/TrueHD patch is asking for some Blu-Ray TrueHD.

http://lists.mplayerhq.hu/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2007-October/thread.html#36628

So join the ffmpeg mailinglist, and send some samples.

Btw, Kurtnoise added MLP/TrueHD/E-AC3 support to the AviSynth plugin FFmpegSource:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=127037&page=9

You might want to go over there and start testing.

[madshi]

I'm not sure what the difference is between Blu-Ray TrueHD and TrueHD (anyone?)
Blu-Ray TrueHD has some AC3 frames added in the TrueHD stream. Basically you just need to remove/skip them and you end up with a HD DVD style TrueHD stream.

I don't have a sample at hand right now. Can anybody else help out?

[honai]

Sure, here you go:

http://myfreefilehosting.com/f/b8cfd37f97_42.65MB

[madshi]

Thanks, honai.

@Wilbert, could you post that to the mailing list, as I don't have access to it right now (and currently no time to join).

[nautilus7]

The delay option is only working on flac conversion, right?
Is it possible to apply a delay on ac3/dts also?

[madshi]

The delay option is only working on flac conversion, right?
The delay works for any conversion which has a PCM/RAW stage in it. So if there's real "decoding" and/or "encoding".

Is it possible to apply a delay on ac3/dts also?
That's currently not supported. You can use delaycut for that purpose. Maybe I'll add this functionality in a future version of eac3to.

[nautilus7]

Thanks for the quick answer.

[Wilbert]

@honai/mashi,

I've send a mail to Ian (the guy who made the patch). I will let you know if he needs other samples.

[hristoff2]

Hi,

eac3to won't read this pcm 5.1 16bit file properly, the output is only noise.

eac3to reports it can't determine whether the file is 16bit or 24bit, so I add -16 to the cli -> output is noise but I can play the file when I mux it to matroska (the pcm source) and play it then with ac3filter, so I guess there's something broken

http://rapidshare.com/files/67172503/sample.pcm.html

greets :)

[ed_co]

You dont need single Nero Filters
When youve your Nero7 with HDDVD/BR Plugin installed, all Filters/Decoders are registred.
So for decoding eac3 with Nero youve already all what you need.

Your Error "Nero Audio Decoder 2" instance failed."
Sound sfor me youve worng Nero Version...You know, you can only use Nero 7 ? Nero8 will not work with eac3to !!
And/Or the HDDVD/BluRAy Plugin isnt properly installed

AH, dont use Sonic Decoder! You get full DRC/DialoNorm/Gain=BAD

Try :
1 As i say, demux eac3 from mkv with AvimuxGui!
2. Check Nero installation

@TheKeymaker
THX! It works

It would like to see this Features :

- When eac3to Process is complet, a simple "Complete/Done" Message from the Gui itself would be nice.
Because eac3to Command Promt Window closes autom

-Yes, drag&drop would be nice

-.ac3 Input/Output Extension , to use the DialogNorm Remove Feature : eac3to src.ac3 dest.ac3

I can't install nero 7.10.1.0, because I have the next error "neroag_registercomex", and I try to clean with nero general clean tool and "your uninstaller 2006" (because I found it like solution in forums, but didn't work).
I don't understand.

[ACrowley]

@ed_co
Simply use the NeroCleaner tool

@hristof

Try to change the Endian Type.
Did you demux it with TSremux ? All LPCM Tracks i demuxed with TSRemux where garabage ,with a loud noise from eac3to
So i use only Xport (Big Endian always)

[hristoff2]

Used Xport in the first place (but the output was corrupted, 300mb too small), so I used gdsmux.exe from haali dir. which worked like a charm.

For the time being I used audacity to export the audio tracks (mono) and corrected the channel mapping manually :)

[ed_co]

@ed_co
Simply use the NeroCleaner tool


Like I said. Don't work.
I have windows xp x64 (for your information).

[Thunderbolt8]

A decoder which can decode 7.1. Maybe the new open source decoder in ffmpeg can do that. We'll have to wait a bit for that. Do you have a movie with 7.1 TrueHD? Which one?
batman begins HD DVD is 7.1 TrueHD.

I'm not sure what you mean exactly. Which 16bit downsampling do you mean?
I was refering to this:

known problems:

(2) DTS-HD High Resolution tracks encoded from 16bit masters are forcefully downconverted to 16bit.

So does that mean that DTS-HD MA 24-bit tracks also get downconverted to 16bit or does that only apply to the DTS-HD HR tracks?

[ACrowley]

@natilus7

Wheres your Problem ? Its fine.
I dont think the differences in your eac3/thd Test is out of Norm, i cant see anything what is not right, no differences which are relevant (if any ,theyre marginal only)
We compared (and had a long discusion)a lot of Tracks for a while and eac3to/Nero(tweaked) Decoder applies 100% clean no DRC and no DialNorm
Both waves in your pics are obviously without DRC/DialNorm and Ok
So it "surely" not a eac3to/Nero Problem and surely no Problem at all :)

@hristoff
Ah Ok.. so it must be caused from gdsmux .
Never had Problems with xport..it was always correct/Sync/Size

What works too is via Graphedit :
Filesource(Async)-SonicHDDemuxer-Dump

@Thunderbolt8
Theres no 16 bit downsampling from eac3to on dts hd. You get always the correct output ,when the dts hd has 24bit its 24bit and reversed.
Standard DTS output is "always" 24bit for some good reasons
So we have no "16bit downsampling" on dts (hd) in any case

[madshi]

So does that mean that DTS-HD MA 24-bit tracks also get downconverted to 16bit or does that only apply to the DTS-HD HR tracks?
With DTS-HD Master Audio the situation is quite reversed: If the master was only 16bit then we *WANT* the decoding to be only 16bit, too. That's the point of "lossless".

[madshi]

Theres no 16 bit downsampling from eac3to on dts hd. You get always the correct output ,when the dts hd has 24bit its 24bit and reversed.
Standard DTS output is "always" 24bit for some good reasons
So we have no "16bit downsampling" on dts (hd) in any case
I believe DTS-HD High Resolution is downconverted to 16bit by the Sonic decoder, if the original master was only 16bit.

[madshi]

eac3to won't read this pcm 5.1 16bit file properly, the output is only noise.

eac3to reports it can't determine whether the file is 16bit or 24bit, so I add -16 to the cli -> output is noise but I can play the file when I mux it to matroska (the pcm source) and play it then with ac3filter, so I guess there's something broken
The sample file you uploaded is a WAV file and not a PCM file. Just rename it to WAV and you're done.

[madshi]

batman begins HD DVD is 7.1 TrueHD.
Could you upload a small sample? That would be helpful. 10MB should be enough. Thanks!

[honai]

Just noticed something odd: When converting an EAC3 track to WAVs (and possibly with other operations as well) eac3to seems to pull (or instantiate, not sure what exactly it does) the Sonic Audio Decoder's control even though my system has the Nero decoder installed. Isn't eac3to supposed to check for Nero first? Might this be an indication that eac3to actually uses Sonic even though it tried to instantiate Nero's decoder?

[nautilus7]

@natilus7

Wheres your Problem ? Its fine.
I dont think the differences in your eac3/thd Test is out of Norm, i cant see anything what is not right, no differences which are relevant (if any ,theyre marginal only)
We compared (and had a long discusion)a lot of Tracks for a while and eac3to/Nero(tweaked) Decoder applies 100% clean no DRC and no DialNorm
Both waves in your pics are obviously without DRC/DialNorm and Ok
So it "surely" not a eac3to/Nero Problem and surely no Problem at all :)

I didn't say there is drc applied to the thd track. I just asked why there were higher (even that little) peaks in the thd. I am glad it's nothing wrong. Thanks!

[KillTonic]

I've demuxed the m2ts with xport.
But the TrueHD file i've tried to convert to 5.1 wav (for further Nero AAC Encoding) is just crappy noise.
btw, whats the correct file extension on a TrueHD Audio File..PCM?
Can anyone please help me about this? :)

[nautilus7]

TrueHD extension that eac3to accepts is .thd

Have in mind also that wav max size is 4GB. The size of a 2 hours 5.1 wav file is more than this, so you gonna have problem. You can use .wavs as output to convert the thd to 6 mono wavs, but i don't know how your gonna encode them to aac.

[Chumbo]

I've demuxed the m2ts with xport.
But the TrueHD file i've tried to convert to 5.1 wav (for further Nero AAC Encoding) is just crappy noise.
btw, whats the correct file extension on a TrueHD Audio File..PCM?
Can anyone please help me about this? :)
The first post of a tool thread usually will answer the type of question you have and so does the command line help in most cases.

[madshi]

Just noticed something odd: When converting an EAC3 track to WAVs (and possibly with other operations as well) eac3to seems to pull (or instantiate, not sure what exactly it does) the Sonic Audio Decoder's control even though my system has the Nero decoder installed. Isn't eac3to supposed to check for Nero first? Might this be an indication that eac3to actually uses Sonic even though it tried to instantiate Nero's decoder?
How do you know that eac3to wants to "pull" the Sonic Audio Decoder? I'm not sure exactly what you mean. Maybe posting the eac3to output text would help?

[Thunderbolt8]

Could you upload a small sample? That would be helpful. 10MB should be enough. Thanks!
I could, but I dont have much time atm, so I dont know when this will be. might as well take 1-2 weeks :S

btw. I just read that flac.exe cant handle 7.1 audio anyway, is this true? if yes, then this might be pointless anyway :/

[ACrowley]

I didn't say there is drc applied to the thd track. I just asked why there were higher (even that little) peaks in the thd. I am glad it's nothing wrong. Thanks!

yes, i know waht you mean :) i only want to tell you theres no Problem.
No DRC/DialNorm from eac3to/tweaked NeroDecoder and your waves are correct and almost identical
=Null Problemo

[honai]

How do you know that eac3to wants to "pull" the Sonic Audio Decoder?

That's what the registry monitor of Kaspersky told me.

[depechefan]

I get this message when trying to convert the .THD to .WAV

Getting "Nero File Source Async" instance failed

any suggestions?

Here was my command line:
D:\star fighter\2>eac3to FEATURE_1_MERGED.MLP.stream.00.thd output.wav
TrueHD, 5.1 channels, 48khz, dialnorm: -27dB
The following tasks are executed now. Please wait...
- remove Dialog Normalization information
- muxing TrueHD track into temp evo file
Decoding TrueHD track to raw. Please wait...
Getting "Nero File Source Async" instance failed.

[madshi]

I could, but I dont have much time atm, so I dont know when this will be. might as well take 1-2 weeks :S
No problem, I'm not in a hurry.

btw. I just read that flac.exe cant handle 7.1 audio anyway, is this true? if yes, then this might be pointless anyway :/
FLAC handles 7.1 just fine.

[madshi]

That's what the registry monitor of Kaspersky told me.
I think you can safely ignore that.

[madshi]

I get this message when trying to convert the .THD to .WAV

Getting "Nero File Source Async" instance failed

any suggestions?

Here was my command line:
D:\star fighter\2>eac3to FEATURE_1_MERGED.MLP.stream.00.thd output.wav
TrueHD, 5.1 channels, 48khz, dialnorm: -27dB
The following tasks are executed now. Please wait...
- remove Dialog Normalization information
- muxing TrueHD track into temp evo file
Decoding TrueHD track to raw. Please wait...
Getting "Nero File Source Async" instance failed.
Most probably you don't have Nero installed properly. Try uninstalling and reinstalling Nero. Please note that Nero 8 won't work. You need Nero 7.

[depechefan]

Most probably you don't have Nero installed properly. Try uninstalling and reinstalling Nero. Please note that Nero 8 won't work. You need Nero 7.

Oh! Well, that's why then! I had Nero 8! I'll try it. Thank you!

[nautilus7]

I guess that i can replace the sox.exe and aften.exe that come with eac3to with newer ones.
Which version of aften does eac3to work with? SSE, SSE2, SSE3, "simple" one or all?

The sox link in the fisrt post doesn't point to the latest version (14).

[nautilus7]

And something else i forgot to ask...

TrueHD from BluRay has ac3 frames in it, right?
So, if i run eac3to bluray.thd output.ac3 it will extract those frames. How can i encode a new ac3 from this trueHD track (using aften)?


Also in the first post, it says:
extraction of AC3 frames from AC3/TrueHD tracks:
eac3to src.thd dst.ac3

Shouldn't this be extraction of AC3 frames from EAC3/TrueHD tracks?

:thanks:

[honai]

So, if i run eac3to bluray.thd output.ac3 it will extract those frames. How can i encode a new ac3 from this trueHD track (using aften)?

Why would you want to do that? It makes no sense. The embedded AC3 is already at 640kbps, you can't get better quality or higher bitrate with aften.

Shouldn't this be extraction of AC3 frames from EAC3/TrueHD tracks?

No.

[madshi]

I guess that i can replace the sox.exe and aften.exe that come with eac3to with newer ones.
Theoretically yes. Practically I haven't tested it and I'm not sure if you gain anything by doing that. But of course you can try.

Which version of aften does eac3to work with? SSE, SSE2, SSE3, "simple" one or all?
I'm using the x86 build which internally has branches for SSE*, IIRC.

The sox link in the fisrt post doesn't point to the latest version (14).
That's probably because I didn't test that version yet. And I won't ever test it, because the next bigger eac3to version will not use sox at all, anymore. The only thing eac3to uses sox for right now is for converting 24bit tracks down to 16bit. The next bigger eac3to version will do that internally - and in a better quality compared to sox. Sox 13 at least is just rounding each sample - which is a bad idea for audio quality. eac3to will use proper TPDF ("Triangular Probability Density Function") dithering.