eac3to - audio conversion tool

[kartman_canada]

Hi, all...

I've installed ArcSoft's TotalMedia Theater 15-day trial... and have eac3to v2.50. I'm trying to rip my copy of Ice Age 2. I thought this one would be easy as it's not seamless branched and it's only MPEG2 instead of x264! It's a WinXP Pro SP2 box.

The curveball here is that the audio is DTS MA... I've had success with AC3 but DTS-MA is new for me...

eac3to log:
eac3to v2.50
command line: "E:\Video_Encoding\eac3to\eac3to.exe" "E:\Ice_Age_2\BDROM\BDMV\STREAM\00001.m2ts" 3: "E:\Ice_Age_2\BDROM\BDMV\STREAM\test3.wav" -down2
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
M2TS, 1 video track, 5 audio tracks, 1:30:36
1: Chapters, 25 chapters
2: MPEG2, 1080p24 /1.001 (16:9)
3: DTS Master Audio, English, 5.1 channels, 24 bits, 48khz
4: AC3, French, 5.1 channels, 448kbit/s, 48khz, dialnorm: -27dB
5: AC3, Spanish, 5.1 channels, 448kbit/s, 48khz, dialnorm: -27dB
6: AC3, English, 2.0 channels, 224kbit/s, 48khz, dialnorm: -27dB
7: AC3, English, 2.0 channels, 224kbit/s, 48khz, dialnorm: -27dB
[a03] Extracting audio track number 3...
[a03] Downmixing multi channel audio to stereo...
Loading white noise (needed for dithering)...
[a03] Decoding with ArcSoft DTS Decoder...
[a03] Writing WAV...
[a03] Creating file "E:\Ice_Age_2\BDROM\BDMV\STREAM\test3.wav"...
Video track 2 contains 130338 frames.
eac3to processing took 15 minutes, 50 seconds.
Done.

Everything is good except that the demuxed video finishes as 1:30:36 but I get 1:31:08 for the audio no mater how I try to demux/convert it. Until I figure this out, I've stopped but the plan was to continue with MeGUI to encode in x264 and 2-channel AAC and mux into MP4 for PS3 playback.

I've not bothered just chopping the tail off the audio yet... more puzzled at the moment. What happens if I try to mux the audio as it it stands?

[madshi]

Yep, but this is for next version? Or only for dts-hd/eac3?

Now with:

eac3to seven_channel.wav output.wav -extensible

the 7th channel is doubled to 8th channel without remapping then is always wrong.
Hmmmm... I'll recheck that.

I'm not sure if I understand correctly. Are you sure these are tracks were originally recorded in 6.1 and the back channel was doubled without applying any attenuation?
I don't know what the studio did. But what I can say is that there are some movies where the studio advertises 6.1 on the backside of the Blu-Ray (e.g. The Descent, just to name one) and which is 7.1 on the disk with the back channels being identical. I don't really think that the studio did attenuation because I guess that some Blu-Ray players may only output one back channel and ignore the other one. But I don't really know...

I doubt there is an agreement on the 6.1 to 7.1 conversion.
However, I find the idea proposed by tebasuna51 (here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1144930#post1144930)), based on the distribution of acoustic power, very convenient.
For 6.1-->7.1 it would mean:
Back_new(l,r) * cos(30) = 0.5 * Back_old
==> Back_new(l,r) = 0.5 * Back_old / cos(30)
taking sqrt:
Back_new(l,r) should be 0.76 * Back_old
It sounds reasonable. But I'm not sure if that's what Dolby/DTS and the receiver manufacturers are doing. I'm not really an expert in audio theory... I guess I'll check what the ArcSoft DTS decoder does when I ask it to output 7.1 for a 6.1 track. The decoder upconverts then. I guess that they use a "DTS authorized" method for that. So whatever they are doing might be what I'll implement in eac3to, too. Not sure yet, though...

i am still testing and not sure, but i think that on one of the sample ArcSoft do not output noise when is set to 24bit. is there any chance that ArcSoft can detect from what source WAV file the E-AC3 track is made - 16bit or 24bit?
i confirm that there are E-AC3 tracks that ArcSoft output without noise when set to 24bit and that there are E-AC3 tracks that ArcSoft output without noise only when set to 16bit. ArcSoft decodes the DTS-HD MA correctly only when the right parameters are set, so maybe it is the same with the E-AC3 track and somehow ArcSoft finds the resolution of the source WAV file from which the E-AC3 track is made.
I've already answered all this. Let me copy&paste:

"AC3 and E-AC3 tracks do not have a fixed bitdepth. If there is noise when decoding the tracks to 24bit with ArcSoft then this is a clear bug in ArcSoft. The native output of any AC3/E-AC3 decoder is floating point. Which is much more than 24bit."

ok, but if the E-AC3 track is made from 16bit WAV file then it is a waste of space to output to 24bit or am i wrong?
You need to stop thinking about (E-)AC3 as having anything to do with a specific integer PCM bitdepth. That's just not the case. The (E-)AC3 encoders convert the original PCM data to something completely different before encoding the data. Any resemblence to a specific integer PCM bitdepth is lost during this process.

Are you going to be adding support for the rest of Arcsoft decoders ie., TrueHD/EAC3?
I see no reason to add support for the TrueHD decoder, as the libav decoder is virtually perfect. I might consider adding support for the (E-)AC3 decoder later. But xkodi's reports don't really encourage me to do that. I don't like wasting hours on integrating a buggy decoder. FWIW, integrating the ArcSoft decoders into eac3to is a pain in the ***. So I will do that only if it's really worthwhile...

[madshi]

Everything is good except that the demuxed video finishes as 1:30:36 but I get 1:31:08 for the audio no mater how I try to demux/convert it.
Well, is the audio in sync with the video at the beginning and end of the movie? That's the only thing that counts.

[xkodi]

@madshi

two interesting DTS-HD MA samples, both decode perfectly with eac3to, but the first one is the only 16bit, 6.1 channels DTS-HD MA track i found so far and the second has some weird channel order i think it is the same as Shoot 'Em Up

Internal Affairs II, DTS-HD MA, 6.1, 16bit, 48kHz:
http://rapidshare.de/files/39868411/int.affairs2.61ch.ma.dtshd.html

Pan's Labyrinth, DTS-HD MA, 7.1, my tests made me think it has interesting channel order:
http://rapidshare.de/files/39868422/panslaby.71ch.ma.dtshd.html

I might consider adding support for the (E-)AC3 decoder later. But xkodi's reports don't really encourage me to do that.
i found a workaround for the noise problem - if i set the bit depth in ArcSoft decoder control panel before connect the graph there is no noise and the decoded sound is normal. other than that i don't know how to test the ArcSoft (E-)AC3 decoder, because of that not integer thing that you have explained.

[Yraen]

madshi,
"Program too big to fit in memory" (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=9gg2mnl9sxy&thumb=4)
I get this error no matter what I run, be it on files, a folder, -test or just eac3to by itself for help. This is about the third time I've gotten this error. The first time(s) I've attributed it to something I did, but this time I was just trying to list the contents of a folder after successfully muxing/converting another folder. No matter what I do after this, this is all eac3to will return. I solved it in the past by deleting eac3to and replacing it. Is there something else I can do on my end to fix it when this happens or is deleting it the best course of action?

I've currently got the bad eac3to in a separate folder and I'll keep it until I know if there is anything you want me to check it for. The current one I just unzipped back into my 2.50 folder works fine.

edit: Took a closer look at the files, eac3to.exe weighs in at 141,284 bytes instead of 1,484,288 bytes as it should. Not sure why this happened.

[ramki067]

Hi madshi,
I tried converting from .dtshd file which i have to .ac3and its giving me an error as below:

C:\Documents and Settings\ramki\Desktop\tools\eac3to_v2.48>"C:\Documents and Se
ttings\ramki\Desktop\tools\eac3to_v2.48\eac3to.exe" "C:\Documents and Settings\
ramki\Desktop\tools\eac3to_v2.48\12-24kbps-32tone-10.dtshd" "C:\Documents and S
ettings\ramki\Desktop\tools\eac3to_v2.48\12-24kbps-32tone-10.ac3"-64
The format of the source file could not be detected.

I'm attaching the .dtshd file, please help.

12-24kbps-32tone-10.dtshd (http://www.filefactory.com/file/21e5df/n/12-24kbps-32tone-10_dtshd)

Regards,
Ramki.

[madshi]

the second has some weird channel order i think it is the same as Shoot 'Em Up
Yep. The speaker config is "C L R Ls Rs LFE Lw Rw".

i found a workaround for the noise problem - if i set the bit depth in ArcSoft decoder control panel before connect the graph there is no noise and the decoded sound is normal.
Ok, in that case there should be no problem when integrating the decoder into eac3to.

edit: Took a closer look at the files, eac3to.exe weighs in at 141,284 bytes instead of 1,484,288 bytes as it should. Not sure why this happened.
So the files on your harddisk suddenly go corrupt? I'd say you should urgently do a scandisk... :) Other than that I don't know what to say. I never had such a problem yet...

I tried converting from .dtshd file which i have to .ac3and its giving me an error as below:

The format of the source file could not be detected.
This file is "DTS-HD Low Bitrate" which is not supported by eac3to yet. These files do not have a conventional DTS core. They only consist of DTS-HD packages. That's not a stream type which eac3to supports right now. But this type of audio track is usually only used for PiP audio. So is this DTS track PiP audio? Or where did you get it from?

[Yraen]

Hi madshi,
I tried converting from .dtshd file which i have to .ac3and its giving me an error as below:


Along with what madshi said, that gui has a known bug. The -640 (I'm assuming you dropped the 0 when copying) needs a space in front of it, just for future reference.


So the files on your harddisk suddenly go corrupt? I'd say you should urgently do a scandisk... :) Other than that I don't know what to say. I never had such a problem yet...


I would have thought that also except for two bits of information I accidently left off, probably due to lack of sleep. I've ran scandisk and it finds no errors. And one time this happened was on a separate computer. It probably is something I'm doing since no one else has reported anything like this.

[ramki067]

This file is "DTS-HD Low Bitrate" which is not supported by eac3to yet. These files do not have a conventional DTS core. They only consist of DTS-HD packages. That's not a stream type which eac3to supports right now. But this type of audio track is usually only used for PiP audio. So is this DTS track PiP audio? Or where did you get it from?


Yes madshi, it is used for PiP audio which is used in our product. Its actually a file from our Customer. We have many such files which needs to be converted to .wav file ultimately. Is their any such tool for converting this low bitrate .dtshd file or can you please include support in the next release of your application?

Thanks,
Ramki.

[madshi]

Yes madshi, it is used for PiP audio which is used in our product. Its actually a file from our Customer. We have many such files which needs to be converted to .wav file ultimately. Is their any such tool for converting this low bitrate .dtshd file or can you please include support in the next release of your application?
I'll have to check if the ArcSoft audio decoder can decode such tracks. I'm not sure about that.

If I may ask - just for my interest (but not really important): Who is "we" and what is "our product"? You don't need to answer if you don't want to.

[nautilus7]

I was able to decode such tracks to .raw using Arcsoft decoder (from TotalMedia theatre) in graphedit.

The graph I used was the same xkodi used for his tests: FileSource (Async.) -> ArcSoft MPEG Demux -> ArcSoft Audio Decoder HD -> Dump.ax

Then you can use eac3to to convert .raw to .wav

[madshi]

I was able to decode such tracks to .raw using Arcsoft decoder (form TotalMedia theatre) in graphedit.

The graph I used was the same xkodi used for his tests: FileSource (Async.) -> ArcSoft MPEG Demux -> ArcSoft Audio Decoder HD -> Dump.ax

Then you can use eac3to to convert .raw to .wav
Good to know. In that case it shouldn't be too difficult to add support for that to eac3to.

[ramki067]

I'll have to check if the ArcSoft audio decoder can decode such tracks. I'm not sure about that.

If I may ask - just for my interest (but not really important): Who is "we" and what is "our product"? You don't need to answer if you don't want to.

Hmm... very tricky to answer such a question on public forum. I shall just mention that i work for a embedded product development company and we are the employees,not further details will be given please...sorry!

Is their any way i can download this software and use it? Please provide me if any such link to software is their.

Thanks,
Ramki.

[madshi]

I shall just mention that i work for a embedded product development company and we are the employees,not further details will be given please...sorry!
Ok, thanks.

Is their any way i can download this software and use it? Please provide me if any such link to software is their.
What do you mean with "this software"? If you can wait a bit, I think the next eac3to version will be able to handle DTS-HD Low Bitrate tracks...

[ramki067]

Ok, thanks.


What do you mean with "this software"? If you can wait a bit, I think the next eac3to version will be able to handle DTS-HD Low Bitrate tracks...

Oh thanks Madshi, i shall surely wait.thanks very much.

Regards,
Ramki

[nautilus7]

I think the next eac3to version will be able to handle DTS-HD Low Bitrate tracks...Since you are preparing a new version...

DTS Low Bit Rate (LBR) was the initial name of the format. Now it's called DTS Express (without -HD).

Plus, I want to mention a typo:


eac3to "F:\Die Hard 4 2007 US Blu-ray 1080p H.264 DTS-HD MA 5.1"
1) 00000.mpls, 00000.m2ts, 2:08:43
- h264/AVC, 1080p24 /1.001 (16:9)
- DTS Master Audio, English, multi-channel, 48khz
- AC3, English, multi-channel, 48khz
- AC3, Spanish, multi-channel, 48khz
- AC3, French, multi-channel, 48khz
- AC3, English, stereo, 48khz


eac3to "F:\Die Hard 4 2007 US Blu-ray 1080p H.264 DTS-HD MA 5.1" 1)
M2TS, 1 video track, 5 audio tracks, 2:08:43
1: Chapters, 37 chapters
2: h264/AVC, 1080p24 /1.001 (16:9)
3: DTS Master Audio, English, 5.1 channels, 24 bits, 48khz
4: AC3, English, 5.1 channels, 448kbit/s, 48khz, dialnorm: -27dB
5: AC3, Spanish, 5.1 channels, 448kbit/s, 48khz, dialnorm: -27dB
6: AC3, French, 5.1 channels, 448kbit/s, 48khz, dialnorm: -27dB
7: AC3, English, 2.0 channels, 224kbit/s, 48khz, dialnorm: -27dB


It should be DTS-HD Master Audio. I guess the same happens with DTS-HD Hi Res. :p

[madshi]

DTS Low Bit Rate (LBR) was the initial name of the format. Now it's called DTS Express (without -HD).
Good to know, thanks.

Plus, I want to mention a typo:

It should be DTS-HD Master Audio. I guess the same happens with DTS-HD Hi Res. :p
You forgot to mention that conventional "DTS" is actually named "DTS Digital Surround". Do you want me to replace "DTS" with "DTS Digital Surround" everywhere, too? ;)

I've intentionally dropped the "-HD" from the MA and HR format track listings because I wanted the track listings to fit into one line of the command window. Also I've shorted "High Resolution" to "Hi-Res". If I ever do a GUI I'll surely use the full names...

[nautilus7]

Alright then. Thanks and sorry. :)

[madshi]

No need to apologize... :)

[kartman_canada]

I know this isn't really an EAC3TO issue... but I'm trying to get the ArcSoft filters working. As soon as I install the "intro" version of TotalMedia Theater. DirectShow can't seem to render AAC from an MP4.

Without ArcSoft installed, I get the following path:
Haali MP4 Splitter --> ffdshow Video/Audio decoder --> Video/Audio Renderer

With ArcSoft installed, I get:
ArcSoft MP4 Splitter --> ffdshow Video decoder --> Video Renderer (and no audio with GSpot reporting "partial render failure")

Again, I realize this isn't likely the right forum for this. Please feel free to point me in the correct direction. Ideally, I'd like to find a guide so I can learn more about filters and how they are prioritized. I understand the basics but not much more. Can I get the ArcSoft filters working with eac3to for DTS decoding but leave the TotalMedia Theater package uninstalled? If not, how do I stop the ArcSoft MP4 splitter from jumping on top of Haali?

[madshi]

I know this isn't really an EAC3TO issue...
Exactly. I'm sorry, but please open your own thread or something. This is one of the biggest threads on Doom9. It doesn't need to grow even bigger by people asking out of topic questions...

[kartman_canada]

I've been dragging my heels on buying Nero (w/ BD plugin) and/or ArcSoft TotalMedia Theater. I want a software player for the HTPC and I'd like the filters that come with both tools for use with eac3to as well!

I know the current favourites are ArcSoft for DTS and Nero for (E)AC3. Is this going to move to ArcSoft for both? If so, how soon? The reason I'm asking is obvious.

With the Nero, no matter what I try, I can't seem to get eac3to see the filters as correctly installed. That said, I'm not sure I 100% understand what is required. I have Nero 7 but I've never upgraded/purchased the BD-HDDVD plugin. Do I have what I need or does eac3to require some thing I don't own for AC3 support?

[madshi]

That said, I'm not sure I 100% understand what is required. I have Nero 7 but I've never upgraded/purchased the BD-HDDVD plugin.
<sigh> Why don't you read the eac3to help text? Or why don't you read the first post of this thread? It is clearly stated in both places that you do need the plugin.

[madshi]

Yep, but this is for next version? Or only for dts-hd/eac3?

Now with:

eac3to seven_channel.wav output.wav -extensible

the 7th channel is doubled to 8th channel without remapping then is always wrong.
You are right. 7th channel doubling did result in a wrong channel order. Now this is embarassing... http://madshi.net/icon_redface.gif

Anyway, I've fixed this now. Furthermore I've added an (undocumented) option "-no7doubling" for people who don't like the channel doubling.

[madshi]

eac3to v2.51 released

http://madshi.net/eac3to.zip

* DTS Express bitstream parser added
* DTS Express auto detection added
* DTS Express bitstream delay added
* DTS Express bitstream gap/overlap correction added
* DTS Express decoding (Nero & ArcSoft) added
* fixed: 6.1 -> 7.1 channel doubling resulted in wrong channel order
* added (undocum.) option "-no7doubling" to disable 6.1 -> 7.1 channel doubling
* DTS tracks with funny speaker settings are displayed as "7.1 (strange setup)"
* warning is displayed when decoding "7.1 (strange setup)" tracks with ArcSoft
Adding DTS Express support was not too difficult after all...

However, it's interesting to note that the Sonic decoder doesn't like DTS Express at all. The ArcSoft decoder gets along fine with Blu-Ray style DTS Express tracks. But ArcSoft chokes on the special track posted by ramki067. However, the Nero decoder surprisingly decodes both DTS Express samples I have just fine.

@ramki067, you'll need to install Nero 7 (not 8!!) and also the Nero HD DVD/Blu-Ray plugin. Afterwards you can use "eac3to yourtrack.dts whatever.wav -nero" to decode your track to wav. BTW, do you happen to have some more DTS Express samples? That would be helpful. Especially different bitrates, channel configurations and samplingrates always make useful samples. Thanks!

[Thunderbolt8]

im not sure in how far I understood it with that 6.1 -> 7.1 channel doubling, but if it can be disabled I guess it might not always work correctly when leaving it at 6.1 (or represent the original disc channel order), otherwise it could be default?

[rickardk]

I did a couple of 6.1 movies (LPCM and DTS) like 5 months ago. Does this mean that the channel order (of my by eac3to created 8 channel flac tracks) is wrong?

[yonta]

Thanks for the update!

By the way, there's log.txt in the zip file.
I don't think you meant to include it there?

[madshi]

im not sure in how far I understood it with that 6.1 -> 7.1 channel doubling, but if it can be disabled I guess it might not always work correctly when leaving it at 6.1 (or represent the original disc channel order), otherwise it could be default?
As explained earlier with 6.1 tracks there's the problem with MS channel masks. With 7.1 tracks there is not.

I did a couple of 6.1 movies (LPCM and DTS) like 5 months ago. Does this mean that the channel order (of my by eac3to created 8 channel flac tracks) is wrong?
I fear that the channel order is wrong. Basically the side surround channels are where the back channels should be and vice versa. You can correct the problem by doing "eac3to source.flac dest.flac -0,1,2,3,6,7,4,5".

By the way, there's log.txt in the zip file. I don't think you meant to include it there?
No, I didn't. But it's doesn't harm, either.

[Thunderbolt8]

As explained earlier with 6.1 tracks there's the problem with MS channel masks. With 7.1 tracks there is not.
yes, but what does this mean for the use? will the 6th channel be wrong for example when using microsoft sound drivers? or when using a microsoft player? or when its generally used in windows? or just in general and always?

sorry, but im not that much into the technical stuff :S

[K1ngp1ng]

hi!
there is no channel remapping done when using -no7doubling.

[Thunderbolt8]

hi!
there is no channel remapping done when using -no7doubling.
which then again means? sorry, but I only have a 2 channel system right now, but I like to be prepaired for the future :)

[kartman_canada]

Well, is the audio in sync with the video at the beginning and end of the movie? That's the only thing that counts.

Nope... seems to be in sync at the beginning and audio seems to be lagging the video after muxing. The original M2TS reports as 1:30:37 and all the of the audio tracks that I've managed to extract/convert are reported as 1:31:08.

The lag, as it goes out of sync, is nowhere near the ~30sec difference between the reported audio and video streams though.

[nautilus7]

@ Kartaman_canada, give me 1 hour to test with my Ice Age 2 copy and report back.

EDIT: Well, first of all everything is fine here. I remuxed the movie into .mkv and tested with both dts-hd master audio converted to flac and dts core. Absolute sync with both. There's no need to say that playing the original .m2ts file in mpc resulted in no sync issues.

Despite that, I have to say that I got different runtimes in it's case. Loading the .mkv file eac3to created in mpc gave me 1:30:36. The .mkv+audio track gave me 1:31:07, while the .m2ts file 1:31:12. In any case the video stopped at 1:30:36, so it's obvious that the audio tracks are a little longer (they are silent though). I believe that's why your media player or the software you used to mux audio and video is confused and causes sync problems.

You can try cutting the last ~30 secs of your audio track, so it stops before the video.


@ madshi, thanks again for the new version. eac3to is getting new features day by day. It's awesome.
(have you figured out all the needed things regarding dts formats by your own, or did you found any documentation?)

[kartman_canada]

Well, first of all everything is fine here. I remuxed the movie into .mkv and tested with both dts-hd master audio converted to flac and dts core. Absolute sync with both. There's no need to say that playing the original .m2ts file in mpc resulted in no sync issues.

Despite that, I have to say that I got different runtimes in it's case. Loading the .mkv file eac3to created in mpc gave me 1:30:36. The .mkv+audio track gave me 1:31:07, while the .m2ts file 1:31:12. In any case the video stopped at 1:30:36, so it's obvious that the audio tracks are a little longer (they are silent though). I believe that's why your media player or the software you used to mux audio and video is confused and causes sync problems.

You can try cutting the last ~30 secs of your audio track, so it stops before the video.

@nautilus7 - Just about everything you found is 100% the same result. I'm muxing with MP4Box (as part of fully updated MeGUI). Just curious, could the conversion from DTS to "whatever" be my issue? My audio file is 1:31:07 as with yours though. I've been going to WAV using the -down2 option and then feeding the WAV file into MeGUI for conversion to AAC before muxing into MP4.

I don't see the sync becoming noticeable until very late in the movie but I too found the that "extra" ~30secs is silence. What are you using for muxing and playback?

@ madshi - excellent tool... awesome support too! I've been on the steep part of the learning curve and every time I sit down there seems to be a new version. Many thanx.

[ramki067]

eac3to v2.51 released

http://madshi.net/eac3to.zip


@ramki067, you'll need to install Nero 7 (not 8!!) and also the Nero HD DVD/Blu-Ray plugin. Afterwards you can use "eac3to yourtrack.dts whatever.wav -nero" to decode your track to wav. BTW, do you happen to have some more DTS Express samples? That would be helpful. Especially different bitrates, channel configurations and samplingrates always make useful samples. Thanks!

thanks madshi for such a fast support!

One question though, is Nero 7 and HD DVD/Blu-Ray plugin essential for conversion? Or can i use any other plugin instead? I don't have these softwares with me now, thereby can't eac3to work without these tools?


I've some tracks with me which i've added below:

24-48kbps-32tone-20.dtshd (http://www.filefactory.com/file/7ad748/n/24-48kbps-32tone-20_dtshd)

48-192kbps-WhiteNoise-20.dtshd (http://www.filefactory.com/file/b3f4b4/n/48-192kbps-WhiteNoise-20_dtshd)

Regards,
Ramki

[madshi]

yes, but what does this mean for the use? will the 6th channel be wrong for example when using microsoft sound drivers? or when using a microsoft player? or when its generally used in windows? or just in general and always?
Some media players/decoders may be confused and play the channels in the wrong order. It's hard to predict what will happen exactly. But there's potential for confusion. There is no potential for confusion with 7.1.

there is no channel remapping done when using -no7doubling.
Does there need to be channel remapping? I think the channels are in the correct order with 6.1 when not doing channel doubling. Or am I wrong?

I'm muxing with MP4Box (as part of fully updated MeGUI).
Try using eac3to for muxing the video to MKV. Just as a test. If you get perfect sync with eac3to's MKV then the problem is caused by mp4box. I think that's the most likely scenario...

One question though, is Nero 7 and HD DVD/Blu-Ray plugin essential for conversion? Or can i use any other plugin instead? I don't have these softwares with me now, thereby can't eac3to work without these tools?
eac3to itself knows the bitstream format (= detailed structure of the compressed audio files) of the various codecs. However, eac3to itself can not actually decode any of these codecs. For decoding eac3to needs to use external decoders. eac3to is shipping with the "libav" library which is a free decoder package which can decode many formats. But DTS Express is not one of them. So if you want to decode DTS Express you need to have an external decoder which can do the decoding. There are 2 options: ArcSoft and Nero. Both are commercial packages. eac3to can make use of both the ArcSoft and Nero (must be version 7) DTS decoders, if they are installed on the local PC. Without Nero and ArcSoft eac3to can tell you the parameters of your samples (like samplerate, channel format etc) but it cannot actually decode the samples.

I've some tracks with me which i've added below:

24-48kbps-32tone-20.dtshd (http://www.filefactory.com/file/7ad748/n/24-48kbps-32tone-20_dtshd)

48-192kbps-WhiteNoise-20.dtshd (http://www.filefactory.com/file/b3f4b4/n/48-192kbps-WhiteNoise-20_dtshd)
Thanks! eac3to can handle those 2 just fine. I've found that the Nero DTS decoder can decode all your 3 samples and also the Blu-Ray sample I got. The ArcSoft DTS decoder can decode the Blu-Ray sample and also these 2 new samples of yours, but it cannot decode the first sample you uploaded. So it seems that for DTS Express decoding your best bet is the Nero DTS decoder. The ArcSoft decoder works, too, but it may fail to decode some samples. Not sure what's causing the failure. Maybe the ArcSoft decoder doesn't like 1.0 channel configurations. Or maybe it doesn't like a samplerate of only 12khz. Not sure...

[rickardk]

I fear that the channel order is wrong. Basically the side surround channels are where the back channels should be and vice versa. You can correct the problem by doing "eac3to source.flac dest.flac -0,1,2,3,6,7,4,5".

Thanks for your fast response!
You are sure that this is the case from day one with eac3to with 6.1->7.1 support?

I have like 7 titles with 6.1 DTS tracks. So I plan to rerip them if this is the case.

[K1ngp1ng]

Does there need to be channel remapping? I think the channels are in the correct order with 6.1 when not doing channel doubling. Or am I wrong?
i use ffdshow and the level meters show that lfe ist "backL" (which is "SL" in ac3filter) and the back surround isn't recognized as backC.
with doubling i see that both "backL" and "backR" are mono.
but having two mono back srds in a 7.1 setup would give a worse result than a 5.1 or 6.1 movie upmixed with pl2x.

[madshi]

You are sure that this is the case from day one with eac3to with 6.1->7.1 support?

I have like 7 titles with 6.1 DTS tracks. So I plan to rerip them if this is the case.
I think it would be better to rerip those, just to be safe. But maybe you should wait a bit because:

i use ffdshow and the level meters show that lfe ist "backL" (which is "SL" in ac3filter) and the back surround isn't recognized as backC.
I'm not sure if ffdshow is doing everything correctly with 6.1 content. Which format (e.g. FLAC, WAV, ...) are you reencoding the 6.1 source to with eac3to?

with doubling i see that both "backL" and "backR" are mono.
What do you mean with that? Do you mean backL and backR are identical?

but having two mono back srds in a 7.1 setup would give a worse result than a 5.1 or 6.1 movie upmixed with pl2x.
How does pl2x upconvert a 6.1 track to 7.1?

[deathlord]

How does pl2x upconvert a 6.1 track to 7.1?
Good question, because on the dolby page (http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/prologic_IIx.html) it says nothing about this conversion.
It only says dp2x does an upmix from 2- or 5.1-channel sources to 6.1 or 7.1.

Edit: madshi, maybe you can find out by looking at the PL2XDLL.dll, the way you did with the arcsoft dts decoder. Also have a look at this (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=50713).

[K1ngp1ng]

- Do you mean backL and backR are identical?
- How does pl2x upconvert a 6.1 track to 7.1?

- yes, that's what i meant.
- since phantom images are placed by interchannel level and phase differences, i guess to get a channel e.g. exactly between srd an backC the matrix decoder would subtract the mono signal from both an place it on the new channel.

[madshi]

- yes, that's what i meant.
- since phantom images are placed by interchannel level and phase differences, i guess to get a channel e.g. exactly between srd an backC the matrix decoder would subtract the mono signal from both an place it on the new channel.
Ouch, that sounds complicated. So I'd better drop 6.1 -> 7.1 channel doubling then?

[K1ngp1ng]

doubling is not correct imho.
i know there are some early releases that had pcm tracks with mono back srds but just like mpeg2 got displaced by avc/vc1,
i think we won't see such weird tracks with lossless codecs anymore.

[rickardk]

Ouch, that sounds complicated. So I'd better drop 6.1 -> 7.1 channel doubling then?
Please keep the 6.1 -> 7.1 until better option is available.

[nautilus7]

eac3to doesn't show any chapters with Shoot 'Em Up Blu-ray. cli and mpls files here (http://www.sendspace.com/file/edtpgp).

[Yraen]

Ouch, that sounds complicated. So I'd better drop 6.1 -> 7.1 channel doubling then?

You've got the -no7doubling switch in, I'd either leave it as is until you have a better understanding of what the specs are.

[ramki067]

eac3to itself knows the bitstream format (= detailed structure of the compressed audio files) of the various codecs. However, eac3to itself can not actually decode any of these codecs. For decoding eac3to needs to use external decoders. eac3to is shipping with the "libav" library which is a free decoder package which can decode many formats. But DTS Express is not one of them. So if you want to decode DTS Express you need to have an external decoder which can do the decoding. There are 2 options: ArcSoft and Nero. Both are commercial packages. eac3to can make use of both the ArcSoft and Nero (must be version 7) DTS decoders, if they are installed on the local PC. Without Nero and ArcSoft eac3to can tell you the parameters of your samples (like samplerate, channel format etc) but it cannot actually decode the samples.


Hi madshi,
I installed Arcsoft decoder and when i tried to convert my samples (the two which worked fine as you said) its giving an error as eac3to crashed...please see the below message and an error report was generated.

C:\Documents and Settings\ramki\Desktop\tools\eac3to_v2.48>"C:\Documents and Se
ttings\ramki\Desktop\tools\eac3to_v2pt51\eac3to.exe" "C:\Documents and Settings
\ramki\Desktop\tools\eac3to_v2.48\48-192kbps-WhiteNoise-20.dtshd" "C:\Documents
and Settings\rkiran\Desktop\tools\eac3to_v2.48\48-192kbps-WhiteNoise-20.ac3" -6
4 -test
Nero Audio Decoder (Nero 7 or older) doesn't seem to be installed
ArcSoft DTS Decoder (1.1.0.0) works fine
Sonic Audio Decoder (2.51.0.0) doesn't seem to be installed
Haali Media Splitter doesn't seem to be installed
Surcode DTS Encoder doesn't seem to be installed
MkvToolnix doesn't seem to be installed
The source file reader couldn't allocate enough memory.
The format of the source file could not be detected.

C:\Documents and Settings\rkiran\Desktop\tools\eac3to_v2.48>"C:\Documents and Se
ttings\rkiran\Desktop\tools\eac3to_v2pt51\eac3to.exe" "C:\Documents and Settings
\rkiran\Desktop\tools\eac3to_v2.48\48-192kbps-WhiteNoise-20.dtshd" "C:\Documents
and Settings\rkiran\Desktop\tools\eac3to_v2.48\48-192kbps-WhiteNoise-20.ac3" -6
4
DTS Express, 2.0 channels, 0:00:10, 24 bits, 192kbit/s, 48khz
eac3to crashed...

and one more thing i tried sending the error report and it said "Sorry, sending the bug report didn't work". Thereby i'm attaching a pic of the error report which might help you to debug.



Ramki.

[K1ngp1ng]

There is your problem ...
Nero Audio Decoder (Nero 7 or older) doesn't seem to be installed
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1154106#post1154106

[ramki067]

There is your problem ...
Nero Audio Decoder (Nero 7 or older) doesn't seem to be installed
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1154106#post1154106

Yes, but Arcsoft decoder seems to work fine, so it should have been able to decode!