eac3to - audio conversion tool [Archive] - Page 105

madshi

22nd June 2008, 15:20

eac3to v2.48 released

http://madshi.net/eac3to.zip

v2.48
* 96kHz LPCM tracks in (M2)TS and EVO/VOB containers didn't work correctly
* "Applying (E-)AC3 delay" now only shows if the bitstream is actually modified
* fixed crash in MP2 reader when checking some PCM tracks
* added support for MLP formats 13 - 16
* improved/corrected MLP channel descriptions
* MLP parser sets correct channel mask
* added proper channel remaps for libav MLP decoding of "funny" channel formats
* added proper channel remaps for Nero MLP decoding of "funny" channel formats
* added proper channel remaps for Nero AC3 decoding of "funny" channel formats
* when doubling 7th channel the channel mask is set correctly now
* channel mask is corrected if a decoder doesn't output all channels
* channel mask is corrected if a channel downmixing is performed
I've checked out the ArcSoft Audio Decoder. It seems to work well enough - but only when using it in GraphEdit and when manually adjusting the parameters to the correct values. When accessing the decoder from within eac3to the ArcSoft Audio Decoder always outputs stereo, only. I've not found a (documented/official) way how eac3to could convince the decoder to output more than 2 channels, sadly...

menlvd

22nd June 2008, 15:27

madshi
when rename w64 file 2 pcm file -> eac3to detecting file fine, but the channel masking is't right
original -> produced by eac3to
L -> SL
R -> SR
C -> L
LFE -> R
SL -> C
SR -> LFE
maybe U can look at this :)
simple need channel remaping -4,5,0,1,2,3

rack04

22nd June 2008, 16:39

tsmuxer might possibly remove the pulldowns, I'm assuming hd-dvd, blu-ray doesn't normally have pulldowns in their h264 files.

Yes it is Transformers HD DVD.

Thunderbolt8

22nd June 2008, 16:54

eac3to v2.48 released
thanks! :)

regarding all those mlp changes/fixes, does that mean that some former converted flac tracks could possible be 'wrong' or not working correctly?

and regarding the problematic mpeg2 .ts files, is this already adressed here as well and I can try it again with 2.48?

rebkell

22nd June 2008, 16:54

Yes it is Transformers HD DVD.

madshi recommended h264info, and he would be a much better source than I ever hope to be on the subject. If you plan on re-encoding the h264, then DGAVCDec will recognize the pulldowns and frame serve them minus the pulldowns.

I've used tsmuxer in the past, but found that eac3to seems to always keep audio and video in sync and I never have any problems dealing with anything it ouputs.

I'm probably not the normal eac3to user, I normally just extract the video track and convert one of the English audio tracks to a lower bitrate ac3 stream.

rack04

22nd June 2008, 16:59

madshi recommended h264info, and he would be a much better source than I ever hope to be on the subject. If you plan on re-encoding the h264, then DGAVCDec will recognize the pulldowns and frame serve them minus the pulldowns.

I've used tsmuxer in the past, but found that eac3to seems to always keep audio and video in sync and I never have any problems dealing with anything it ouputs.

I'm probably not the normal eac3to user, I normally just extract the video track and convert one of the English audio tracks to a lower bitrate ac3 stream.

Yes I'm going to re-encode. Using eac3to I change the container to mkv the pulldown is removed, i.e 23.976. When I extract the h264 and use DGAVCDec to index it reports 29.97 and audio video is out of sync. I'll try h264info and report back.

rebkell

22nd June 2008, 17:08

Yes I'm going to re-encode. Using eac3to I change the container to mkv the pulldown is removed, i.e 23.976. When I extract the h264 and use DGAVCDec to index it reports 29.97 and audio video is out of sync. I'll try h264info and report back.

Does it report 29.97 after you let it(DGAVCIndex) finish? It will report 29.97, but when it finishes it will say that it has pulldowns and would you like to remove them(or something similar to that), click yes and it will then serve them without the pulldowns, at least that was my experience, I think it was with Beowulf that I used it for.

rack04

22nd June 2008, 17:13

Does it report 29.97 after you let it(DGAVCIndex) finish? It will report 29.97, but when it finishes it will say that it has pulldowns and would you like to remove them(or something similar to that), click yes and it will then serve them without the pulldowns, at least that was my experience, I think it was with Beowulf that I used it for.

Don't think I let it finish. I'll try again thanks.

EDIT1: I just re-ran DGAVCDec and it never asked to remove the pulldowns.

EDIT2: Change the setting to FORCE FILM and it appears to have worked. Thanks.

rickardk

22nd June 2008, 18:38

I think tebasuna51 can probably answer this best. However, I've just done some tests with funny AC3 channel formats and sometimes the Nero decoder boosted volume on some channels. But normally in my experience the decoders recommended to be used by eac3to (see first post of this thread) do not do any do anything "wrong". In other words: I tried encoding a WAV file in AC3 and DTS. And decoded them again. And encoded them again. And decoded them again. The volume of all channels were unchanged in my tests. I didn't test this with all decoders, but I think the decoders recommended for use with eac3to should be fine.

I asked because I read that some software decoders boost the lfe channel with +10dB (just as hardware ac3/dts decoders does in your regular av receiver).

Great to know that this is not the case with eac3to. Because then you can have your receiver or software like ffshow do the lfe +10dB boost on all remuxes created with eac3to.

This might be ot, but how do I use Graph Edit to decode my 7.1 DTS-HD MA tracks with Arcsoft TMT audio decoder?

I extracted the audio tracks long ago to .dts files. I can't connect the output pin from Sonic HD Demuxer to Arcsoft HD Audio decoder without having Sonic Cinemaster Audio decoder or ffdshow conncted in between.

madshi

22nd June 2008, 19:03

when rename w64 file 2 pcm file -> eac3to detecting file fine, but the channel masking is't right
original -> produced by eac3to
L -> SL
R -> SR
C -> L
LFE -> R
SL -> C
SR -> LFE
maybe U can look at this :)
simple need channel remaping -4,5,0,1,2,3
w64 files are simply not supported yet.

regarding all those mlp changes/fixes, does that mean that some former converted flac tracks could possible be 'wrong' or not working correctly?
Blu-Rays and HD DVDs are TrueHD and *not* MLP. So for most people all the MLP related changes have no effect whatsoever. MLP is mainly used by DVD-Audio.

and regarding the problematic mpeg2 .ts files, is this already adressed here as well and I can try it again with 2.48?
Yes.

how do I use Graph Edit to decode my 7.1 DTS-HD MA tracks with Arcsoft TMT audio decoder?

I extracted the audio tracks long ago to .dts files. I can't connect the output pin from Sonic HD Demuxer to Arcsoft HD Audio decoder without having Sonic Cinemaster Audio decoder or ffdshow conncted in between.
Don't know if you can directly decode demuxed DTS files in GraphEdit with ArcSoft. Maybe it's possible somehow, not sure.

In the meanwhile I've found a way to make the ArcSoft DTS Decoder work inside of eac3to. However, I have to tell the decoder how many channels I want to have decoded. That's problematic because my DTS-HD channel detection isn't really reliable... :(

yesgrey

22nd June 2008, 20:01

madshi,
My PC has 2 disks, and I usually work with eac3to from one disk to the other and vice-versa until all the processing needed is terminated. From my experience with eac3to it appears that some of the tasks use temp files.
I believe this should be a very simple thing to change, so is it possible for you to create some kind of setting to be used by people like me who uses two disks? It would be great for processing speed and also for disk protection.

For example:
Demuxing 1 video and 2 tracks for the raw streams took 9m16s.
Demuxing 1 video track to mkv and 2 audio tracks for raw streams took 11m18s.

It appears the video to mkv has some kind of temp file, I only don't know if it's located in the source disk or the target disk.

Thanks for your great work!

rickardk

22nd June 2008, 20:38

Yes.

Don't know if you can directly decode demuxed DTS files in GraphEdit with ArcSoft. Maybe it's possible somehow, not sure.

In the meanwhile I've found a way to make the ArcSoft DTS Decoder work inside of eac3to. However, I have to tell the decoder how many channels I want to have decoded. That's problematic because my DTS-HD channel detection isn't really reliable... :(

I re-ripped one movie with DTS-HD MA 7.1 audio. But still I can't connect to Arcsoft Audio Decoder HD. Do I have use more filters in the graph?

nautilus7

22nd June 2008, 23:47

In the meanwhile I've found a way to make the ArcSoft DTS Decoder work inside of eac3to. However, I have to tell the decoder how many channels I want to have decoded. That's problematic because my DTS-HD channel detection isn't really reliable... :(Wow!! That's good news, after the bomb you dropped earlier! :p I am certain that we will get over any problems we come across. :)

I am quite sure I have dts-ma 4ch track (don't know if it's 4.0 or 3.1) but I can't find it right now. I guess that counts as "funny" format.
I re-ripped one movie with DTS-HD MA 7.1 audio. But still I can't connect to Arcsoft Audio Decoder HD. Do I have use more filters in the graph?
See 4-5 pages back, where xkodi posts his findings + graph.

madshi

23rd June 2008, 07:07

For example:
Demuxing 1 video and 2 tracks for the raw streams took 9m16s.
Demuxing 1 video track to mkv and 2 audio tracks for raw streams took 11m18s.

It appears the video to mkv has some kind of temp file, I only don't know if it's located in the source disk or the target disk.
There is no temp file involved when doing MKV muxing. It's just that the MKV muxer costs a bit of performance.

I am quite sure I have dts-ma 4ch track (don't know if it's 4.0 or 3.1) but I can't find it right now. I guess that counts as "funny" format.
Yes, it does. If you find, can you please upload a small sample (5MB is enough)? Thanks...

ideas_man69

23rd June 2008, 07:40

EPiPH0NE

23rd June 2008, 08:17

just a quick question guys.. not sure if it has been asked - i've skimmed through quite a few pages of this thread already.

when converting tracks to DTS - is the general consensus that:

TrueHD to DTS > E-AC3 to DTS?

or

TrueHD to AC3 > E-AC3 to AC3?

TrueHD is decoded using ffmpeg, eac3 decoded by nero. Are nero's eac3 decoders better quality? Which mode retains the most information?

What I use for HD-DVD:

1. TrueHD -> PCM
2. TrueHD -> DTS
3. 640K/> EAC3 -> AC3 (core for BluRay)
4. 768k/< EAC3 -> DTS

BluRay:

1. TrueHD -> PCM
2. TrueHD -> DTS
3. TrueHD -> AC3 (core)
4. EAC3 (see HD-DVD)

IMHO, best quality is these orders. Depends on your hardware.

G_M_C

23rd June 2008, 08:30

madshi

23rd June 2008, 08:40

I see that you havent made a reply to my post.
Yes, I have. Look again...

G_M_C

23rd June 2008, 09:47

Yes, I have. Look again...

:o

Oops, sorry i overlooked that. My bad ...

:o

Regarding the 24 fps though; More and more displays are beinig "optimized" for 24 fps. Many newer display-manuafacturers even market those functions ("Real cinema 24fps" kind of features). My Panasonic 42pz85 is made for/accepts 1080p24 (and other 24 fps), and so are all displays from this years (2008) generation.

And not only displays are made to work on 24 fps, so are the (newer) players. My dpm dp30 has a specific setting to let it output at 24 fps; But also the PS3 has had an update to output @ 24 fps, and many other players recently been made fit to work on 24fps.

I do not know on what fps movies are encoded and/or stored on the physical disk, if it is 23,976 or not; But even PC-apps & rippers prodce 24 fps these days (and even the "less legal" full BD-rips / torrents often seem to be 24 fps). But now i'm rambling on ... but i think 24 fps will be seen more often in the future.

tebasuna51

23rd June 2008, 09:50

Do you happen to also have samples for all the funny DTS channel formats? :)

I make the samples for ac3/mlp with the encoders but with the Surcode DTS v1.0.23 only can make 5.0/5.1 samples and I can't check the eac3to detection and libav channelmap behaviour.

With less channels Surcode put empty channels. For instance:
eac3to v2.48
command line: "D:\Test\AudioN\eac3to\eac3to.exe" "E:\Test\wavs\2w200.wav" "E:\Test\wavs\2w200.dts"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WAV, 2.0 channels, 0:00:20, 16 bits, 48khz
Reading WAV...
Writing WAVs...
Creating file "E:\Test\wavs\2w200.L.wav"...
Creating file "E:\Test\wavs\2w200.R.wav"...
Found Surcode DTS Encoder version 1.0.23.0.
Surcode encoding successfully started. Please wait...
Closing Surcode...
eac3to processing took 1 second.
Surcode encoding took 6 seconds.
Done.

eac3to v2.48
command line: "D:\Test\AudioN\eac3to\eac3to.exe" "E:\Test\wavs\2w200.dts"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DTS, 5.0 channels, 0:00:20, 24 bits, 1536kbit/s, 48khz
With FC,BL,BR empty

Is the lfe channel always mixed at -10dB for all formats (AC3, E-AC3, TrueHD, DTS, DTS-HD (MA), LPCM)?

Does any of the default decoders apply the +10dB for the lfe channel? (I hope not)

I never see this fixed attenuation/amplification in encoders/decoders.

AFAIK, the encoders can use only (forced or optional) a lowpass filter for LFE channel. Other question is the recommended relative volume level between channels, but is a free choice for the soundtrack author.

madshi

23rd June 2008, 10:46

Regarding the 24 fps though; More and more displays are beinig "optimized" for 24 fps. Many newer display-manuafacturers even market those functions ("Real cinema 24fps" kind of features). My Panasonic 42pz85 is made for/accepts 1080p24 (and other 24 fps), and so are all displays from this years (2008) generation.
That's a good argument. For NOT implementing 24.000 support. Because all what you mentioned above is 23.976 and not 24.000, just like Blu-Ray and HD DVD are...

I make the samples for ac3/mlp with the encoders but with the Surcode DTS v1.0.23 only can make 5.0/5.1 samples and I can't check the eac3to detection and libav channelmap behaviour.
That's what I feared... :( I guess I'll recheck the source code then and do my best to set correct channel masks etc without being able to actually test it.

nautilus7

23rd June 2008, 11:42

If you find, can you please upload a small sample (5MB is enough)? Thanks...I found it. It's from Edward Scissorhands Blu-ray Disc. The movie menu states it is a 4.0 and eac3to a 3/1. That seems correct, except that the surround channel is empty (I checked a big part of the track to be sure about this).

Here (http://www.sendspace.com/file/e073sw) is a sample.

* Any ETA about blu-ray subtitle demuxing? It would be really useful for seamless branching titles.

yesgrey

23rd June 2008, 11:54

There is no temp file involved when doing MKV muxing. It's just that the MKV muxer costs a bit of performance.

I've considered that, but since the size of the mkv file only changes after completed I thought it was some kind of temp file during the process. Thanks for the clarification.

But what about the situations where the temp files exist? For example when converting EAC3 5.1 -> DTS 5.1 the 6 wav files created for feeding surcode will be in the same directory as the final dts file... or is it possible to do:
EAC3 5.1 -> 6 wav -> DTS 5.1 ? (not so user friendly)

Thanks.

tebasuna51

23rd June 2008, 13:09

I found it. It's from Edward Scissorhands Blu-ray Disc. The movie menu states it is a 4.0 and eac3to a 3/1. That seems correct, except that the surround channel is empty (I checked a big part of the track to be sure about this).

Here (http://www.sendspace.com/file/e073sw) is a sample.

Thanks for the sample.

eac3to detection is ok (3/1) without lfe channel, and the surround channel is not empty. Using eac3to v2.48 (libav) -extensible the channel mask is 0x0033=FL FR BL BR, but must be 0x0107=FL FR FC BC.

nautilus7, can you upload a little fragment with dialogs to identify the center channel? I think libav decode need remapping but I'm not sure.

deathlord

23rd June 2008, 13:33

madshi,

But normally in my experience the decoders recommended to be used by eac3to (see first post of this thread) do not do any do anything "wrong".
Actually, I have found quite the opposite. (Ignoring for the moment the question what is really "wrong" or "true".)
I have used cyberlink audio decoder for decoding the ac3 from DVD's for a long time. As this decoder doesn't do a 10dB boost, I have added this boost into my setup. However, with eac3to-remuxed blurays I often felt the lfe was much too loud. Deactivating my boost for BD seemd to solve this problem.

I tried encoding a WAV file in AC3 and DTS. And decoded them again. And encoded them again. And decoded them again. The volume of all channels were unchanged in my tests.

Have you tried ordinary ac3/dts only, or also lpcm, truehd, dts-hd?

nautilus7

23rd June 2008, 14:17

I did a search around the net and found some info about the dts PiP track we found in some blu-rays (the info is not enough for adding support in eac3to though):

DTS Express: Previously known as DTS-HD Low Bit Rate, the DTS Express provides low bit rate audio coding for applications with 2- to 5.1-channel audio, focusing primarily on bandwidth constrained audio applications, such as Internet, broadcast audio, and secondary audio on next generation optical disc players. It's currently used in picture-in-picture, director commentaries and other Blu-ray's interactive features.

Also from DTS Master Audio Suite Manual, i found that:
* It is used as secondary audio track in BD and HD DVD media and contains metadata for the amount of attenuation of the primary audio track of the movie (0 to -40 dB)
* bitrate can be from 24 to 510 kbps
* can have 1, 2, or 5,1 channels
* samplerates can be 12, 24, 48 KHz

The one in National Treasure 2 is 2.0 48 KHz (don't know the bitrate) and Arcsoft decoder can decode it correctly.

@ tebasuna51

Here (http://www.sendspace.com/file/v3m12k)'s the new sample. What do you mean that the surround channel isn't empty? It is!

tebasuna51

23rd June 2008, 14:39

I have used cyberlink audio decoder for decoding the ac3 from DVD's for a long time. As this decoder doesn't do a 10dB boost, I have added this boost into my setup. However, with eac3to-remuxed blurays I often felt the lfe was much too loud.

Can you supply any document about this 'magic' 10 db boost?
The core streams ac3/dts are the same in DVD or HD/BD and also the decoders.

Have you tried ordinary ac3/dts only, or also lpcm, truehd, dts-hd?

Lpcm is uncompressed data then we can't decode/encode.
Truehd and dts-hd-ma are lossy formats then can't modify the audio data.
Dts-hd-hr, the extra info over dts core is not related with lfe channel.

tebasuna51

23rd June 2008, 15:02

I@ tebasuna51

Here (http://www.sendspace.com/file/v3m12k)'s the new sample. What do you mean that the surround channel isn't empty? It is!

Thanks.

There are 4 channels with audible info (in first sample):
Center Left Right and Surround

In this sample the surround is only low volume noise, and the first channel (libav decoded) is the Center (dialog) channel then we need remap -1,2,0,3,4,5.

rickardk

23rd June 2008, 22:50

I never see this fixed attenuation/amplification in encoders/decoders.

AFAIK, the encoders can use only (forced or optional) a lowpass filter for LFE channel. Other question is the recommended relative volume level between channels, but is a free choice for the soundtrack author.

I think that the lfe channel is MIXED at -10dB relative to other channels when (e)ac3/dts audiotracks is authored/encoded. This is to give a little more headroom for the lfe channel.

Then the decoder (in your A/V receiver/preamp) should apply a +10dB boost on the lfe channel to get the levels right. But I don't know how this is handled by software decoders.

Im not sure, but I think the same goes for TrueHD, DTS-HD (MA)... But for LPCM I have no idea. I've read somewhere that DVD-As did not have the lfe mixed at -10dB. So most player applied a -10dB attenuation to handle the +10dB boost applied by most A/V receivers.

I hope the boost is not applied when using eac3to to create flacs. I apply this boost in ffdshow audio OR in my A/V receiver.

But I would like to know that this is handled in the same way for all formats. Because once decoded and encoded to flac ffdshow really can't tell if the source is TrueHD, LPCM or whatever (if I would like this +10dB applied to just some formats). So if this -10dB mixing is not used in every format or if a +10dB boost is applied for just some formats when using eac3to there is no way to have this boost handle correctly when playing back my mkvs.

Example 1:
I have two movies on blu-ray. One that uses LPCM and one with TrueHD.
Let's say that the -10dB lfe mixing is not used when LPCM are mixed and encoded but it is used when TrueHD tracks are created (I really don't know about this).

I use eac3to to create mkvs with FLAC tracks. Lets say that the libav TrueHD decoding does not apply the +10db boost.

My system is setup to apply a +10dB boost at the A/V reciever stage.

This will result in having the right lfe level on the TrueHD track but having to high lfe volume on the LPCM track.

Example 2:
I have two movies on blu-ray. One that uses DTS-HD and one with TrueHD.
Let's say that the -10dB lfe mixing is used when both TrueHD and DTS-HD tracks are created (I really don't know about this).

I use eac3to to create mkvs with FLAC tracks. Lets say that the libav TrueHD decoding does not apply the +10db boost but the Sonic DTS decoder DO apply the +10dB boost.

My system is setup to apply a +10dB boost at the A/V reciever stage.

This will result in having the right lfe level on the TrueHD track but having to high lfe volume on the DTS-HD track.

I think it's a good idea to keep the lfe mixed at -10dB as long as possible because otherwise the whole point of lfe headroom is ruined.

I hope that lfe is mixed at -10dB in all formats including LPCM. And that no decoder used by eac3to applies a +10dB lfe boost. This way I can setup ffdshow to add a +10dB lfe boost for all multichannel FLAC sources if I connect directly into a power amp (not ideal though as this will lower the level of all the other channels by 10dB). Or let my receiver apply a +10dB lfe boost for multichannel via LPCM (HDMI connection).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=748147

EPiPH0NE

23rd June 2008, 23:35

^^^What's funny is that it seems that when I do DTS-MA/TrueHD -> (L)PCM LFE seems to lacking, unless I turn it up, compared to when I do DTS-MA/TrueHD/LPCM -> DTS using Sonic/libav. Would what your saying have something to do with this?

rickardk

23rd June 2008, 23:57

^^^What's funny is that it seems that when I do (1) DTS-MA/TrueHD -> (L)PCM LFE seems to lacking, unless I turn it up, compared to when I do (2) DTS-MA/TrueHD/LPCM -> DTS using Sonic/libav. Would what your saying have something to do with this?

Hmm...

Setup?
Using a A/V receiver there is often an option to apply +10dB lfe boost for digital and analog connections. Do you use it?

(1) Might indicate that a +10dB lfe boost is not applied by decoders used by eac3to for DTS-HD MA and TrueHD.

(2) Might indicate that a +10dB lfe boost is not applied by decoders used by eac3to for DTS-HD MA and TrueHD. BUT a 10dB lfe boost is applied by your DTS decoder (software or hardware) when you are playing back the by eac3to encoded DTS stream.

I know there is a reference disc with 7.1 tracks in E-AC3, TrueHD, DTS-HD MA and LPCM format. I don't have it myself at this time. But if someone can test to decode and compare thoose track then we would know if all formats is mixed with -10dB lfe (because I'm now pretty sure that TrueHD tracks are mixed with the lfe at -10dB). We would then also know if any decoder used by eac3to does apply a +10dB lfe boost.

I guess some guys already performed bit-by-bit comparison on that disc?

Thunderbolt8

24th June 2008, 01:11

I have some problems with silver HD tv caps (h264 1080i 50hz), they just dont play (with ffdshow), no matter if as .ts or remuxed to .mkv. though this problem is most likely ffdshow related (since it works with coreavc and powerdvd), when I rightlick -> properties -> media for the .mkv info then it just loads and loads and nothing happens (like those old ratatouille files when remuxed with mkvmerge). so maybe theres something in the muxing process which could be improved as well? would you like a little .ts sample?

G_M_C

24th June 2008, 08:11

That's a good argument. For NOT implementing 24.000 support. Because all what you mentioned above is 23.976 and not 24.000, just like Blu-Ray and HD DVD are...
[...]

That what i wrote in the last part of my post; That i didn't know on what fps BR's / HDDVD were encoded/stored in the real world. But the AVCHD specs are clear; 24 fps. And since i'm makeing some AVCHD's, i asked it is was possible that you implemented the 24p speedup/slowdown feature (independend on whatever BR etc. handles or not)

EDIT:
On this page, section "24p in high definition disc formats", there is mentioned that BR supports 24p in its native timing (if it is actually applied though, i dont know) ---> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24p
But it really doesnt matter in the case of my request, i'm just confused :?

Beastie Boy

24th June 2008, 08:14

A frame rate of 23.976 is often abreviated to 24fps.

1080/23.976p just doesn't look good to the marketing men :)

Cheers, Beastie.

yesgrey

24th June 2008, 10:12

But the exact original film rate is 24fps or 24000/1001 fps?
The 24000/1001 fps is not the slowdown applied to the original film 24fps before the 3:2 pulldown for the conversion to NTSC?

Joniii

24th June 2008, 10:20

24000/1001=23,976023976023976023976023976024

deathlord

24th June 2008, 12:09

Can you supply any document about this 'magic' 10 db boost?
I don't have a document, so far it is just my listening experience.

The core streams ac3/dts are the same in DVD or HD/BD and also the decoders.
But the decoders might behave differently e.g. when decoding the whole dts-hd track rather than the core only.

Lpcm is uncompressed data then we can't decode/encode.
Truehd and dts-hd-ma are lossy formats then can't modify the audio data.
Dts-hd-hr, the extra info over dts core is not related with lfe channel.
Ok, but that tells us neither if the lfe channel was meant to be raised by 10dB nor if the decoder raises it or not. The problem lies somwhere else and I think rickardk has described it very well in post #5233 .

I know there is a reference disc with 7.1 tracks in E-AC3, TrueHD, DTS-HD MA and LPCM format.

Any idea where I could get this disc?

I think it's a good idea to keep the lfe mixed at -10dB as long as possible because otherwise the whole point of lfe headroom is ruined.
I agree. Still the most important point is, as you said, that all sources are treated equally.

Maybe lpcm doesn't use -10dB in the lfe track, while all other sources do? I will check whether the BD's where I felt the 10dB boost was inapropriate were all lpcm.
The presence of 10dB too much in the lfe is of course much more audible than -10dB, because there is also a lot of bass in the other channels.

tebasuna51

24th June 2008, 13:32

I think the +/- 10 dB to lfe channel is not concerning to eac3to conversion.

I am sure about libav decoders, of course lpcm and encoders like Aften (ac3), flac, Surcode (dts) or oggenc2, neroaacenc, ct_aacplus than can be used with ac3to stdout.

I can't test nero or sonic decoders but I think don't apply the +10 dB to LFE.

Like eac3to don't touch the lfe channel and this is the desired behaviour we can close the discussion in this very big thread. We can open other thread to speak about:
- All audio tracks in BD have the lfe channel attenuated 10 dB?
- How the audio equipment (receivers, ...) do the bass management? Must include the +10 dB lfe for any kind of audio source?

Jaja1

24th June 2008, 14:57

I have a TS stream with an AVC video track and a TrueHD audiotrack. Eac3to sees the TrueHD stream but doesn't include it in its tracklist. See attachment.

What's happening here?

Beastie Boy

24th June 2008, 15:07

See attachment.

What's happening here?

Attachments can take a long time to get approved, it's better to paste your log file.

Jaja1

24th June 2008, 15:12

Yes, I know. I didn't get a logfile however... I thought. But it appears to be hidden in the Eac3folder. Didn't know it ends up there if there isn't a run.

So here is round two:

eac3to v2.48
command line: eac3to Broken.ts
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a TrueHD/AC3 stream and not an AC3 stream.
TS, 1 video track, 1:31:15
1: h264/AVC, 1080p24 /1.001 (16:9)

EPiPH0NE

24th June 2008, 20:21

Hmm...

Setup?
Using a A/V receiver there is often an option to apply +10dB lfe boost for digital and analog connections. Do you use it?

I am using an NMT -> Sony DG720 via HDMI and I'm not sure if it's using the boost or not I would have to check. When I do DTS encodes with Surcode via eac3to I can keep my sub level at 0 but when I do DTS-MA/TrueHD -> PCM I usually have to turn up the sub level to +1 and sometimes +2.

zakhounet

24th June 2008, 22:56

Hi,

I have installed NERO 8 with the HDVD/BluRay plugin install (on windows XP sp3) but when i am trying to convert using eactoGui (3.2.10) i am having the following error message :
Microsoft Windows XP [version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

K:\test2>"E:\PCH\EAC3toGUI\eac3to.exe" "K:\test2\Film.DTSHD.stream.01.eac3" "K:\
test2\Film.DTSHD.stream.01.ac3" -nero
DTS Master Audio, 5.1 channels, 16 bits, 48khz
I'd like to use the Nero decoder, but it doesn't seem to work.

Does anyone knows if I have to copy any .dll file to the eacto directory to be able to use the nero plugin ?

Thanks

nautilus7

24th June 2008, 23:11

First of all: Nero 8 isn't good. You need nero 7 and the plug-in.
The log you posted shows that your file is a dts-hd ma track and not a eac3. Default and best quality dts decoder is sonic.

Welcome.

deacon crusher

25th June 2008, 17:47

I feel like I'm missing something.

Eac3to can mux video streams into mkv files, but it seems like you can't also mux the audio streams into the same mkv.

How come? I know I can use mkvmerge and I do, but I've had problems with it on some files and I'm finding that eac3to solves all of those problems so I'd love to not have to use mkvmerge at all??

Hopefully someone can clue me in to some obvious switch I'm missing that will allow me to do this, or explain why it can't be done or that this feature is maybe coming soon??

Thanks

nautilus7

25th June 2008, 18:44

No, you don't miss anything and audio muxing wont come (in the near future at least). Mkvmerge works quite well and can be used afterwards.

deacon crusher

25th June 2008, 19:10

oh well, better to know then not know.

Just by way of example. National treasure when split into h264 and ac3 with tsmuxer or eac3to and then muxed into mkv with mkvmerge has major problems.

If you split with eac3to and have it create the mkv with the h264 already in there and then mkvmerge in the ac3 stream it does work fine, just felt like I should be able to do it all with one tool, but I'll live.

Eac3to is an amazing tool and really glad I've switched to it.

Thanks

yesgrey

26th June 2008, 10:17

If you split with eac3to and have it create the mkv with the h264 already in there and then mkvmerge in the ac3 stream it does work fine...

Well, that's the way you should do it...
I've read somewhere (maybe in this thread) that it's better keeping the h264 streams inside a container than as a raw stream. I don't know if this still applies, but in your case aparently it does.
I understand that would be better if you could do it in one step, but I also understand that the existence of a simple working alternative (using mkvmerge) keeps madshi for not doing it.

madshi

26th June 2008, 18:18

* Any ETA about blu-ray subtitle demuxing?
No. I don't give ETAs... ;)

But what about the situations where the temp files exist?
The only situation is with DTS encoding. And I don't want to add a parameter just for that.

I have some problems with silver HD tv caps (h264 1080i 50hz), they just dont play (with ffdshow), no matter if as .ts or remuxed to .mkv. though this problem is most likely ffdshow related (since it works with coreavc and powerdvd)
If the problem only occurs with ffdshow and not with coreavc and powerdvd then it's most probably a ffdshow problem. There's nothing I can do.

I have a TS stream with an AVC video track and a TrueHD audiotrack. Eac3to sees the TrueHD stream but doesn't include it in its tracklist. See attachment.
What does "eac3to sourcefile -logpids" say?

I am using an NMT -> Sony DG720 via HDMI and I'm not sure if it's using the boost or not I would have to check. When I do DTS encodes with Surcode via eac3to I can keep my sub level at 0 but when I do DTS-MA/TrueHD -> PCM I usually have to turn up the sub level to +1 and sometimes +2.
As far as I remember, receivers apply that +10db boost to the LFE when you send bitstream to the receiver. However, if you send multichannel uncompressed data, the receivers sometimes apply a +10db boost and sometimes not. It depends on your receiver and also on the receiver settings. The problem is that with Audio-DVD sources an LFE boost must not be done (AFAIK). However, with uncompressed movie audio data an LFE boost must be done. The receiver cannot possible know where the data is coming from. So you may need to change the settings. You should tell your receiver that it shall apply a +10db boost for HDMI LPCM data and for analog multichannel audio input, too.

madshi

26th June 2008, 18:22

I need DTS-HD samples.

They can be rather small. 5MB per sample is plenty. What I need is especially this:

- DTS-HD High Resolution 5.1, 6.1 and 7.1
- DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1, 6.1 and 7.1

Especially 6.1 and 7.1 samples are needed. The more the better. If possible also from different studios. IIRC the Fox tracks are slightly different compared to some other studios.

eac3to is currently not able to properly detect the correct channel configuration of DTS-HD tracks. The information shown by eac3to can be correct - or not. So please check the backside of your Blu-Rays (/ HD DVDs) to find out which channel format the DTS-HD tracks really have.

Thanks!