eac3to - audio conversion tool

[Chumbo]

...Your best bet would be to convert the TrueHD losslessly to an LPCM stream...
I hear, no pun intended, that flac is a better lossless choice. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[nwg]

It's not a bug, it's a feature! It's telling you, in a way that makes sure you don't forget it, that you need to delay that audio track 200ms when you are muxing it (eg using tsMuxeR). eac3to can't apply TrueHD delay itself so you have to delay the whole track when muxing, or it will be out of sync.

I have never added a delay and has been in sync everytime. As soon as tried adding the delay (one was 1001ms) the sync was way off.

[tebasuna51]

It has problems; i think channel mapping issue.

Yep, seems the remap needed is missing (or now libav is correct and don't need remap).
We have problems with 18,19 and 20 modes
# MLP Channel Assignments MS channels order libav remap
-- ------------------------ ------------------ -----------
18 Lf Rf Ls Rs (LFE) FL FR LF BL BR -0,1,4,2,3,5
19 Lf Rf Ls Rs (C) FL FR FC BL BR -0,1,4,2,3,5
20 Lf Rf Ls Rs (C LFE) FL FR FC LF BL BR -0,1,4,5,2,3

[jamos]

Any progress with DTS-HD MA 7.1 support? N/M see I need the arcsoft decoder to get this..

Ok got arcsoft decoder seemed to decode dts hd fine to pcm but when remuxed with tsmuxer channels are mixed. the right speaker is playing the center channel when playing pcm.

this may be a issue with PCM2tsmu not sure but i did use the -c 8 switch with it and tsmuxer does say 7.1.

[peterjcat]

I hear, no pun intended, that flac is a better lossless choice. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

FLAC is indeed a better (more efficient) choice IF you have a device that will play it back, such as a PC. The OP wanted to hear lossless audio on his WD TV and there's no way that's playing back multi-channel FLAC. However, it should play LPCM as there's no decoding involved. The recommendation was just for those circumstances.

[MuteyM]

@Jeff Flowerday and others who have requested the ability to split eac3to output by chapter for concerts and such, I have whipped up a little GUI to do just that!
...


Just a quick note that I've now added Blu-Ray support to HDConcertRipper. This is the last post I'll make about it in the eac3to thread, anyone interested can continue the discussion in the official thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=145140).

[peterjcat]

I have never added a delay and has been in sync everytime. As soon as tried adding the delay (one was 1001ms) the sync was way off.

A delay specified in the filename like that, or just a delay reported when eac3to is running? eac3to fixes the latter delays, doesn't fix the former. And I guess sometimes it might put a delay in a filename when it doesn't need to, I'll let madshi speak to that, but believe me it's there for a reason.

[Snowknight26]

The OP wanted to hear lossless audio on his WD TV and there's no way that's playing back multi-channel FLAC.

Says it does here: http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?DriveID=572

[peterjcat]

Says it does here: http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?DriveID=572

No, it says it plays FLAC music. It doesn't support FLAC in movies, let alone multi-channel FLAC in movies, let alone decoding multi-channel FLAC in movies to LPCM for lossless output via HDMI.

[jamos]

Ok got arcsoft decoder seemed to decode dts hd fine to pcm but when remuxed with tsmuxer channels are mixed. the right speaker is playing the center channel when playing pcm.

this may be a issue with PCM2tsmu not sure but i did use the -c 8 switch with it and tsmuxer does say 7.1.

Hmm why does eac3to remap channels when using arcsoft decoder to get a pcm file? seems to be a bug in the channels for 7.1 as the center is playing out of right front.


eac3to v3.11
command line: "F:\bd\eac3to\eac3to.exe" "00001.m2ts" 3: "app.pcm"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
M2TS, 1 video track, 3 audio tracks, 3 subtitle tracks, 1:52:02, 24p /1.001
1: Chapters, 17 chapters
2: h264/AVC, 1080p24 /1.001 (16:9)
3: DTS Master Audio, English, 7.1 channels, 16 bits, 48khz
(core: DTS, 5.1 channels, 16 bits, 1509kbps, 48khz)
4: AC3, French, 5.1 channels, 640kbps, 48khz, dialnorm: -27dB
5: AC3 Surround, English, 2.0 channels, 224kbps, 48khz, dialnorm: -27dB
6: Subtitle (PGS), English
7: Subtitle (PGS), English
8: Subtitle (PGS), Spanish
[a03] Extracting audio track number 3...
[a03] Decoding with ArcSoft DTS Decoder...
[a03] Swapping endian...
[a03] Remapping channels...
[a03] Creating file "app.pcm"...
[a03] The original audio track has a constant bit depth of 16 bits.
Video track 2 contains 161161 frames.
eac3to processing took 16 minutes, 9 seconds.
Done.

then
Pcm2Tsmu.exe app.pcm output.pcm -i 16 -c 8

[Mark_A_W]

Hmm why does eac3to remap channels when using arcsoft decoder to get a pcm file? seems to be a bug in the channels for 7.1 as the center is playing out of right front.



Not for me - but I am converting to FLAC

As far as I can tell (as I have to downmix in madflac to 5.1 as I have a 5.1 soundcard/setup), the channels are correct.

For 7.1 soundtracks, I'm certainly not getting the centre coming out the right speaker.

[jamos]

Not for me - but I am converting to FLAC

As far as I can tell (as I have to downmix in madflac to 5.1 as I have a 5.1 soundcard/setup), the channels are correct.

For 7.1 soundtracks, I'm certainly not getting the centre coming out the right speaker.

ps3 has to use pcm when streaming does not support Flac afaik. are you using pcm2tsmu and sonic decoder also?

[yesgrey]

madshi,
does eac3to supports multiple mkv source files as it does with ts files?
For example eac3to source1.mkv+source2.mkv only gives the info of the first file, but if using .ts files gives the info of the sum of the files.

[madshi]

I think there is a small bug in EAC3to way of parsing the mpls files and the m2ts files.

I did a test on Der Untergang (Nordic version)

Here we dont have any names on the subtitles, there should be, because when I open the mpls files in text mode I see this [...]

But as you can see the mpls language/Subtitles are NOT always parsed and shown in eac3to. BUG!
eac3to reads the subtitle languages from the clipinfo file and not from the playlist file. It seems that the clipinfo file for 00009.m2ts does not contain the subtitle languages, for whatever strange reason...

There is also a problem with extracting video and audio from this using the mpls file. Because the audio goes out of sync because of the small 00010.m2ts black screen file.

The audio is out of sync by 1-2 sec. The solution is to rip the files from the 00009.m2ts files (main movie) then the audio is in sync. Dont know if eac3to can make a work around for this.
Would you mind uploading the CLIPINF + PLAYLIST folders together with 00010.m2ts and the first 30MB of 00009.m2ts? Having these files might help me fix the problem.

Last a small request if possible. If you want to extract the chapters, is it then possible to do this without having eac3to to scan the video stream. As the chapters are located in the mpls file ?
Technically no problem. But I don't know right now if I can easily fit that into the eac3to source code structure. Will have to check...

does eac3to supports multiple mkv source files as it does with ts files?
For example eac3to source1.mkv+source2.mkv only gives the info of the first file, but if using .ts files gives the info of the sum of the files.
This is not supported yet, at least not officially. Does it work at all (apart from the wrong runtime display, of course)? Haven't even tried myself yet.

Hmm why does eac3to remap channels when using arcsoft decoder to get a pcm file?
Because PCM channel ordering is different from WAV channel ordering.

seems to be a bug in the channels for 7.1 as the center is playing out of right front.
I can't reproduce any problems here. I even tried doing the same thing as you (eac3to + Pcm2Tsmu + tsMuxeR) and for me the channel order is always correct. I can only guess that there's something wrong in your playback chain...

The method:

Extract mlp directly with DVD_Audio Explorer and transmit to flac with eac3to.

It has problems; i think channel mapping issue.
Yep, seems the remap needed is missing (or now libav is correct and don't need remap).
We have problems with 18,19 and 20 modes
# MLP Channel Assignments MS channels order libav remap
-- ------------------------ ------------------ -----------
18 Lf Rf Ls Rs (LFE) FL FR LF BL BR -0,1,4,2,3,5
19 Lf Rf Ls Rs (C) FL FR FC BL BR -0,1,4,2,3,5
20 Lf Rf Ls Rs (C LFE) FL FR FC LF BL BR -0,1,4,5,2,3
Thank you. Bug found and fixed.

[yesgrey]

This is not supported yet, at least not officially. Does it work at all (apart from the wrong runtime display, of course)? Haven't even tried myself yet.
It works, but the results are not correct.

First, I have demuxed each file separatelly, muxed the raw streams with tsMuxer to .ts files, and then used eac3to to join the two .ts files to .mkv and .dts. It worked flawlessly, even correcting the audio overlapping.
Then I tryed with the two mkv files, but the result was not good. The mkv resulting file was exactly the same size of the file obtained with the .ts method, but I have compared both files and they were different. The dts audio file was only half, he considered the other audio part to be overlapping the first...

[madshi]

It works, but the results are not correct.

First, I have demuxed each file separatelly, muxed the raw streams with tsMuxer to .ts files, and then used eac3to to join the two .ts files to .mkv and .dts. It worked flawlessly, even correcting the audio overlapping.
Then I tryed with the two mkv files, but the result was not good. The mkv resulting file was exactly the same size of the file obtained with the .ts method, but I have compared both files and they were different. The dts audio file was only half, he considered the other audio part to be overlapping the first...
Ah, makes sense. For EVO and m2ts files, eac3to automatically adjust timecodes for multiple input files. For MKV it does not. So it's understandable that eac3to sees the audio as overlapping, because both MKV files have audio begin at runtime 0:00:00. I could only solve this properly if I actually implemented support for MKV file joining. But I'm not sure how big the demand is for such a feature? For TS and m2ts it's very common to have splitted files. But for MKV it should be rather rare?

[madshi]

eac3to v3.12 released

http://madshi.net/eac3to.zip

* fixed: track languages for HD DVD discs were not shown
* fixed: MLP channel order was wrong for some specific channel configurations
* fixed: "DirectShow reported 255 channels" happened sometimes
Haven't had time to work on eac3to last weekend, so here at least some bugfixes...

[jamos]

Because PCM channel ordering is different from WAV channel ordering.


I can't reproduce any problems here. I even tried doing the same thing as you (eac3to + Pcm2Tsmu + tsMuxeR) and for me the channel order is always correct. I can only guess that there's something wrong in your playback chain...


what version of tsmuxer did you use? Im wondering if its a bug with the 1.81 betas that have been recently released? I will try with 1.88. Is there a way I can cut a sample of the pcm audio file and send it to you? I only got this bug with a 7.1 source also..5.1 works fine. also could be sonic decoder too I am guessing.

[yesgrey]

I could only solve this properly if I actually implemented support for MKV file joining.
If it's too much work don't bother. The first method I used worked flawlessly, and it's just some more minutes of processing... maybe you should just indicate that multiple mkv source files are not supported.

[pihug12]

eac3to v3.12
command line: eac3to 1.h264+2.ac3+3.ac3 test.mkv
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
h264/AVC, 1280x528 23.975p
The video track has a non-standard framerate. <WARNING>
Muxing video to Matroska...
Added fps value to MKV header.
Video track contains 591 frames.
eac3to processing took 1 second.
Done.

eac3to doesn't seem to mux the audio and subtitles files in the MKV.
And two log files are made : "log.txt" and "test - Log.txt".

pihug12 :cool:

[madshi]

what version of tsmuxer did you use?
1.8.8b

Im wondering if its a bug with the 1.81 betas that have been recently released? I will try with 1.88. Is there a way I can cut a sample of the pcm audio file and send it to you? I only got this bug with a 7.1 source also..5.1 works fine. also could be sonic decoder too I am guessing.
I have no idea. But I'm not interested in doing any further bug hunting on my side because I don't think that this is a bug in eac3to. If you see any indication that eac3to is at fault, please let me know, though.

eac3to doesn't seem to mux the audio and subtitles files in the MKV.
And two log files are made : "log.txt" and "test - Log.txt".
eac3to only muxes video to MKV. And you should NOT do "some.h264+some.ac3"! File joining is only supported for files of the same type. If you do "some.h264+some.ac3", eac3to will mux the AC3 data as the last h264 video frame!

The "log.txt" file is created in the eac3to folder. The "outputFileName - Log.txt" is created in the target folder. This is by design.

[kurt]

new version (3.12) is ready to download? -test shows old one...

[pihug12]

eac3to only muxes video to MKV. And you should NOT do "some.h264+some.ac3"! File joining is only supported for files of the same type. If you do "some.h264+some.ac3", eac3to will mux the AC3 data as the last h264 video frame!
Did you plan a feature to mux audio tracks and subtitles files to MKV ?

The "log.txt" file is created in the eac3to folder. The "outputFileName - Log.txt" is created in the target folder. This is by design.
I think it's useless if output folder and eac3to folder are the same.

pihug12 :cool:

[Jeff Flowerday]

Getting the following from a particular blu-ray.

J:\>eac3to . 2)

This playlist contains m2ts parts with different track properties (2).

Here is the mpls file.

9502

[rica]

Thank you. Bug found and fixed.

Thanks a lot.
This seems better than the perfect:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/mnxf9g

Used method in transcoding:
mlp extracted by DVDAExplorer+transcoded to flac by eac3to v.3.12.

Used way in listening:
Bitperfect streaming via WASAPI over foobar2000 v. 0.9.3 beta 2 or Media Center 13 over analog outputs.

This was the perfect before 3.12: (ex-perfect)

http://www.sendspace.com/file/scv0kk

The method:
Extract mlp+decode to wav with DVD-Audio Explorer 2008.07.21 (Beta3) by MaximA and retransmit to flac via eac3to.
It is perfect.



_ _ _ _ _ _ _

[GZZ]

Would you mind uploading the CLIPINF + PLAYLIST folders together with 00010.m2ts and the first 30MB of 00009.m2ts? Having these files might help me fix the problem.


http://hbar.dk/Files/Der_Untergang_Nordic.rar

Splitted the m2ts file using tsmuxer into a 30 mb file.

Size file are 21 mb (best compression). I hope it works or else pm me. :)

[madshi]

new version (3.12) is ready to download? -test shows old one...
What do you mean? The download gets me v3.12. If you don't get that, try emptying your browser cache and redownload.

Did you plan a feature to mux audio tracks and subtitles files to MKV ?
No. At least not in the near future.

Getting the following from a particular blu-ray.

J:\>eac3to . 2)

This playlist contains m2ts parts with different track properties (2).

Here is the mpls file.
Attaching files to this forum takes a lot of time. It's better to upload them somewhere. But in this case the mpls file doesn't help, anyway. In most cases like this, the playlist contains one very short m2ts part which has different track types (e.g. AC3 instead of DTS-HD or SD video instead of HD video or something like that). Do a track listing for every m2ts part in the playlist (if there are not too many). Probably the very first or very last m2ts part is the problem. Try playing this m2ts part separately. Maybe you can simply delete it?

Thanks a lot.
This seems better than the perfect:
Don't know why. Maybe the DVD-Audio Explorer does some weird audio processing? I've no idea...

[rica]

Don't know why. Maybe the DVD-Audio Explorer does some weird audio processing? I've no idea...

I'm interested in the conclusions, don't wonder why. (This might be a decoder isssue, who knows :) )
Thanks again.

[jamos]

1.8.8b


I have no idea. But I'm not interested in doing any further bug hunting on my side because I don't think that this is a bug in eac3to. If you see any indication that eac3to is at fault, please let me know, though.





Ok no problem though I can not even get 1.88b to work properly with a 8 channel pcm file. will not play. I only get this with 8 channel dts.

[Blue_MiSfit]

@madshi:

Awhile back I saw clipping audio when transcoding MP2->AC3. You mentioned it was due to internal bit depth restrictions in libavcodec, which could probably be overcome with a more recent build of libavcodec. Did you ever integrate this?

Just curious ;)

Thanks again for your _AMAZING_ tool!!!

~MiSfit

[zeropc]

can someone please explain to me why the '"full range" flag should be removed or kept?

thanks

[VonZippa]

When I run "eac3to -test", one of the things I keep seeing is:

Haali Matroska Muxer (2009-01-10) is installed
There's a new version (2009-01-11) available
http://haali.net/mkv

The problem is, I have the latest download from that webpage installed, yet I keep getting the same message. I've tried completely uninstalling the old version and then installing, but it does the same thing. What am I missing?

[Snowknight26]

Nothing. The issue is with Haali's website.

[madshi]

Awhile back I saw clipping audio when transcoding MP2->AC3. You mentioned it was due to internal bit depth restrictions in libavcodec, which could probably be overcome with a more recent build of libavcodec. Did you ever integrate this?
Not yet.

can someone please explain to me why the '"full range" flag should be removed or kept?
This is a flag in the h264 stream which tells the decoder where black and white level are set in the source. Basically with the flag set, black and whites are at PC level. With the flag cleared they are at video level. It's not 100% correct what I'm saying, I think, but you get the picture. Now if you have a video stream where the flag is set incorrectly, and if you have a decoder which honors this flag, you'll either get washed out blacks/whites or you'll get clipped shadow/white detail.

Now virtually all movie and TV sources are encoded to video levels. So the flag should always be turned off. However, some broadcasters (especially some European HDTV broadcasters) have this flag accidently set. Now the sat/cable receiver decoders usually ignore this flag, so the problem doesn't show. But if you play such a stream on e.g. an NMT media player, you'll get wrong black/white level, because the NMT actually honors the flag.

eac3to checks if the flag is set and complains, because the thread is normally supposed to be not set. eac3to can remove it, and even does so by default. If you have a stream where the flag actually needs to be set, you can tell eac3to not to remove it. But I've yet to see such a stream...

[GZZ]

Did you get my file Madshi ?

/GZZ

[Atak_Snajpera]

Nothing. The issue is with Haali's website.
haali's website shows correct date because he lives in Russia (Different time zone!)

[laserfan]

haali's website shows correct date because he lives in Russia (Different time zone!)That's right--all one has to do to make that Haali error go away is to edit the file date to some time within 11-Jan.

Not sure how many different ways there are to do this but I used Attribute Changer iirc.

[TinTime]

madshi, I feel kind of picky reporting this but anyway, I think I've found a very, very minor bug. If I run...

eac3to.exe 1.eac3 1.dts -core

...then it causes eac3to to crash. No points for spotting the pointless switch I accidentally used! If I drop the -core it works fine of course, so it's not like there isn't a workaround (i.e. use the tool correctly :rolleyes:). I thought I'd better report it though.

I've tried it with a few eac3 files (all from HDDVD) and it always crashes, so you should be able to replicate it (unless it's a problem with my pc). Let me know though if you want a sample, bug report, etc.

[jmonier]

There appears to be a problem converting RAW/PCM 3.0 (Vicky Cristina Barcelona) to WAV. The center channel ends up being tagged as LFE. eac3to does correctly identify it (although PowerDVD identifies it as LPCM 3.0) but then doesn't seem to handle it as such.

Using -down2 also seems to have a similar problem and apparently throws away what it thinks is the LFE channel.

[SomeJoe]

madshi,

Thanks for your tool, it works incredibly well.

I'd like to ask (and you would seem to be the best person to answer this) -- why is it that Dolby Digital Plus (.eac3) tracks from HD-DVD cannot be muxed to Blu-Ray and played on a Blu-Ray player? Is there that much of a fundamental difference between the .eac3 used on HD-DVD and what should/could be used on BD?

I own several HD-DVDs and would like to (in some instances) use the HD-DVD .eac3 track directly on a BD back-up, but I've never been able to get it to work. I always have to change the audio to something else (DTS, PCM, or standard AC3).

[73ChargerFan]

That's right--all one has to do to make that Haali error go away is to edit the file date to some time within 11-Jan.
Or... eac3to is updated 50 times each year, and Haali's is only once, or maybe twice. An exception would work for the next 49 weeks.

[xkodi]

Don't know why. Maybe the DVD-Audio Explorer does some weird audio processing? I've no idea...

last time i checked "DVD-Audio Explorer" produces the same PCM output, i.e. bit by bit identical, to "DigiOnAudio2 Professional", which is reference DVD-Audio Player/Decoder/Encoder.

p.s. "DVD-Audio Explorer" also supports "SMART" (System Managed Audio Resource Technique) for DVD-Audio: http://patches.sonic.com/pdf/white-papers/wp_dvd_audio.pdf

[peterjcat]

madshi,

Thanks for your tool, it works incredibly well.

I'd like to ask (and you would seem to be the best person to answer this) -- why is it that Dolby Digital Plus (.eac3) tracks from HD-DVD cannot be muxed to Blu-Ray and played on a Blu-Ray player? Is there that much of a fundamental difference between the .eac3 used on HD-DVD and what should/could be used on BD?

I own several HD-DVDs and would like to (in some instances) use the HD-DVD .eac3 track directly on a BD back-up, but I've never been able to get it to work. I always have to change the audio to something else (DTS, PCM, or standard AC3).

DD+ on HD DVD and on Blu-ray have very little in common and it's unlikely you'll ever get it to work, as a Blu-ray player expects never to see HD DVD-style DD+ tracks and won't know what to make of them.

I wonder whether a dual-format player might have better luck, though? I don't know how separate the HD DVD/BD sides are to these things.

[SomeJoe]

DD+ on HD DVD and on Blu-ray have very little in common and it's unlikely you'll ever get it to work, as a Blu-ray player expects never to see HD DVD-style DD+ tracks and won't know what to make of them.

I wonder whether a dual-format player might have better luck, though? I don't know how separate the HD DVD/BD sides are to these things.

Well, yes, that's what I've read. But it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Why would DD+ be so fundamentally different on HD-DVD compared to Blu-Ray?

No other audio codec for the two formats is different. AC3 is interchangeable, as is all flavors of DTS, PCM, and even TrueHD. (The one small difference on TrueHD is that on HD-DVD, TrueHD can exist without a lossy AC3 core because HD-DVD has TrueHD as a mandatory-support codec, whereas on Blu-Ray, TrueHD is an optional-support codec, and therefore the lossy AC3 core is required).

Why would only DD+ be so fundamentally different that it would be the only audio codec that's not at all interchangeable?

I'm just looking for a bit more insight and explanation than "they're too different", because I'm not sure I can believe that.

Perhaps it's just a question that we don't know enough about the specifications of the format on Blu-Ray (I believe there's only one commercial Blu-Ray disc that uses DD+), or some other knowledge-block that would prevent us from currently being able to do it. But I highly doubt that the two incarnations of DD+ are just fundamentally different.

[nwg]

My Sony S350 BD player is supposed to do DD+. I have done HD DVD to Blu Ray and kept the DD+. I can't actually play DD+, but it comes out as standard DD ok. I can't imagine why it wouldn't come out as DD+ if I had the capability.

[~bT~]

what is the latest version of the ArcSoft DTS Decoder? and what is the recommended version if any, for use with eac3to?

[TruckChase!]

Latest version of dtsdecoder.dll is 1.1.0
Latest version of asaudiohd.ax is from 2/5/2008.

(I'm not sure what eac3to looks for)

Both come with the latest version of tmt, which can be updated for for free with any modern version. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work for some people. I still can't get it to work on Vista64; see my post @ the bottom of this thread:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=139946&page=2

[peterjcat]

Well, yes, that's what I've read. But it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Why would DD+ be so fundamentally different on HD-DVD compared to Blu-Ray?

No other audio codec for the two formats is different. AC3 is interchangeable, as is all flavors of DTS, PCM, and even TrueHD. (The one small difference on TrueHD is that on HD-DVD, TrueHD can exist without a lossy AC3 core because HD-DVD has TrueHD as a mandatory-support codec, whereas on Blu-Ray, TrueHD is an optional-support codec, and therefore the lossy AC3 core is required).

Why would only DD+ be so fundamentally different that it would be the only audio codec that's not at all interchangeable?

I'm just looking for a bit more insight and explanation than "they're too different", because I'm not sure I can believe that.

Perhaps it's just a question that we don't know enough about the specifications of the format on Blu-Ray (I believe there's only one commercial Blu-Ray disc that uses DD+), or some other knowledge-block that would prevent us from currently being able to do it. But I highly doubt that the two incarnations of DD+ are just fundamentally different.

Well, FWIW here's what Wikipedia has to say:

On HD DVD, DD+ is designated a mandatory audio-codec. An HD DVD movie may use DD+ as the primary (or only) audio track. An HD DVD player is required to support DD+ audio by decoding and outputting it to the player's output jacks. As stored on disc, the DD+ bitstream can carry for any number of audio-channels up to the maximum allowed, at any bitrate up to 3.0 Mbit/s.

On Blu-ray Disc, DD+ is an optional codec, and is deployed as an extension to a "core" AC-3 5.1 audiotrack. The AC-3 core is encoded at 640 kbit/s, carries 5 primary channels (and 1 LFE), and is independently playable as a movie audio track by any Blu-ray player. The DD+ extension bitstream is used on players that support it by replacing the rear channels in the 5.1 setup with higher fidelity versions, along with providing a possible channel extension to 6.1 or 7.1. The complete audio track is allowed a combined bitrate of 1.7 Mbit/s: 640 kbit/s for the AC-3 5.1 core, and 1 Mbit/s for the DD+ extension. During playback, both the core and extension bitstreams contribute to the final audio-output, according to rules embedded in the bitstream metadata.

So that sounds pretty different to me. On BD it's a core+extension model similar to DTS-HD but using a legacy DD core; on HD DVD it's a whole new codec with different compression and no core.

I think it's just another historical gift of the format war. Clearly the BD group wanted the studios to include legacy audio so the core+extension or interleaved codecs made sense, Toshiba had control over playback so didn't mind all-new codecs with internal decoding. Dolby developed a lossy codec for each format and called them both DD+.

I'm not saying that they've got nothing in common, but I don't think we can assume they can be easily interchanged.

That said, it's entirely possible that all or most DD+ decoders are in fact capable of decoding both kinds of DD+ but the tools we're using do something bad to DD+ like they have with TrueHD for so long. (eg tsMuxeR flags DD+ as AC3, which can't help). So I definitely think it's worth investigating that.

[Thunderbolt8]

what does the message mean which eac3to sometimes gives with some captures "this video track contains the (probably incorrect) 'full range' flag" and what does eac3to do then by default (or how can I see what eac3to does by default and if this is correct?)

[nwg]

Well, FWIW here's what Wikipedia has to say:



So that sounds pretty different to me. On BD it's a core+extension model similar to DTS-HD but using a legacy DD core; on HD DVD it's a whole new codec with different compression and no core.

.

If HD DVD has no AC3 core, then why would the HD DVD to Blu Ray I did come out as AC3 5.1? It also comes out as AC3 5.1 when I play the EVO files from the pc through the same amp. I am using the original DD+ audio from the HD DVD's and muxed with TsMuxer to make a BD.