Media Player Classic supports Matroska v2, *.mp4, *.mov, and MPEG-4 Timed Text

[Liisachan]

@B.F. You said "I know" so I assume you disabled the buffering. Do you really need that? MPC is really heavy if you do that, while VSFilter is surprisingly light even w/o buffering. If you get 85% CPU w VSFilter, I'm almost certain that there's no way you could use MPC's sub renderer for the same clip. It's like 2 times higher-quality, but 2 times more cpu-eating.

@Egh: The def. setting in MPC says "round up to power of 2" so I assume 1280x1024 gets 2048x1024 ie {2^11}x{2^10}, but you can uncheck that check box in newer versions!

Recent Karaoke'ers tend to use showy effects. {\k} is cheap but {\t} is not. I'd recommend you to mix hard and soft subs. Hardsub for karaoke, even in softsubs. Then the file plays fine on Linux too, and we can enable sub-pic buffering, which makes MPC much faster (if you can give up fade-in/out). Today's fastest CPU (~ 3+GHz) is still not fast enough for softsubbing complicated effects, even if played with VSFilter.

[Elias]

So bond, what's up with this bold statement then?mp4 is not the holy grail to interoperability or any thing other that you might think is good. In fact most companies (Sony, Apple, Nero) use it in some way so that they don't are (fully) interoperable.I take it that he's talking about the incompliant (depending on how you want to see it) stuff I mentioned?

Anyway, this is getting off topic. Back to the bugreports. Is anyone else experiencing skippy audio (which I mentioned here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=731412#post731412)) playback in mp4 with MPC's internal AAC decoder, or is it just me?

[stephanV]

its spec compliant to place a sbr aac stream in mp4 without signalling sbr (aka a he-aac decoder has to recognize sbr itself even without the parser telling it that its he-aac)
dunno if this is true for ps too, but i guess so
Ok... but as far as I can see MPC has its own AAC decoder so it would be nice to know if it actually can do these things... wouldn't it?


and? this doesnt make the sony .mp4 files incompliant

whats incompliant is the psp player which requires the proprieatary stuff, but again this doesnt make the files themselves incompliant

the mp4 standard allows you to place anything you want in the udta atom, which nero uses for storing chapters
also the mp4 standard allows the placement of private streams in mp4, which nero uses for vobsubs

so nero's mp4 files are not incompliant

Stop thinking from the theoretical standard point of view. People want to watch their files, not compare them with the standard in a hexeditor. It would seem to me that, for the user, it is rather annoying that an ordianry mp4 file (even if it matches the decoding capabilities of the player) will not play unles you run it throuhgh some program called atomchanger. And it is rather annoying that if a user has a Nero MP4 file, but not using Nero's parser he might be running the risk/possibility
vobsubs in mp4 won't be supported. [by gabest]
of not having subtitles or chapters. Sure the file plays, but if I can't understand what people are saying my viewing experience is reduced to naugth.

So while you will say the files are compliant, an ordinary user will say his files don't work... I thought the whole point about mp4 was that it didn't matter what parser you were using or what files you were playing (as long as they are compliant). This is seemingly not the case with Nero and Sony.

[Elias]

I have to agree a little with stephanV in this case (even though we usually don't agree). As far as I'm concerned, m4v/m4a are just extension changes (if I've gotten it right), and can be changed back to mp4 by anyone without converting and exporting or demuxing and remuxing, and yet retain full MPEG-4 standard compliance. Still though, that doesn't make me a fan of m4a/m4v or mov.

Even though it's standardised to put any stream in the private streams in mp4, it sure does not exist any standard way of putting vobsubs in mp4 (or does it? I don't consider Nero's way a standard, but I could be wrong). Neither does it exist any way of putting those incompliant atoms in PSP mp4 files. Hence, Apple is least guilty imho. Still though, as little incompatibilites as there might be between these mp4 files by these companies, they sure as hell are a lot more interoperable and compatible than avi.Ok... but as far as I can see MPC has its own AAC decoder so it would be nice to know if it actually can do these things... wouldn't it?Yes, that's why I asked.

[iron2000]

MPC produces an error (http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/3543/error9ow.jpg) on execute if it is UPX compressed.

So theres no way to make it's size smaller?

[spinstate]

I compressed it with PECompact2 to about 1.5Mb, it seems to work ok...

[bond]

ok lemme mention the open issues again:

- yes, the sony psp is incompliant to the mpeg-4 standard requiring proprieatary atoms in the mp4 container (the files created by sonys encoder tough will play everywhere)
- yes, the files apple sells on itunes are incompliant because they use another extension than .mp4 and also proprieatary drm which would make the playback of the files impossible anywhere else than apples stuff anyways
- yes, neros subs and chapters are not covered by the mpeg-4 standard

this is all not knew and its caused by the mentioned companies, but this doesnt change it that the compliant parts of the files work in different tools not made by the specific company and thats the point of the mpeg-4 standard

just because the psp is crap regarding this and chapters/subs of nero are not supported everywhere doesnt mean that mpeg-4 missed the target of reaching interoperability...

[Elias]

@bond well, when you put it that way, I have to agree. DRM is completely evil. I can't say I've ever had issues with playing any PSP mp4 file, nor Nero's or Apple's (I never use their DRM mp4, nor do I use vobsubs etc). Let's bury this topic now and get back to the bugreports :)

[gnr]

very nice...my fav player. is there any thoughts to put "frame drop" option sothat avi, mp4 can be played with a/v sync in old pcs?

[Stanislas]

When I try to play in MPC 6.4.8.5 a mp4 video files using another than ffdshow decoder I receive a warning message that MPC couldn't render video pins in the graph and I not have needed codec or filter installed on my system. But I have installed all needed codecs and if I put content of mp4 file to mkv MPC plays this matroska file OK.
Why built-in mp4-splitter likes only ffdshow?

[bond]

When I try to play in MPC 6.4.8.5 a mp4 video files using another than ffdshow decoder I receive a warning message that MPC couldn't render video pins in the graph and I not have needed codec or filter installed on my system. But I have installed all needed codecs and if I put content of mp4 file to mkv MPC plays this matroska file OK.
Why built-in mp4-splitter likes only ffdshow?
which other decoders are you trying?

[Stanislas]

to bond:
Nero for AVC content and DivX6 for mp4 asp@l5

MPC 6.4.8.4 plays this mp4 files using haali splitter or nero parser very well.

[bond]

to bond:
Nero for AVC content and DivX6 for mp4 asp@l5good point, thats indeed an open problem of the gabest splitter

divx will definitely not work, also not xvid and 3ivx, because the gabest splitter outputs mpeg2video and not "mp4v" which the decoders support
btw haali does it the same way (because xvid and divx need some ugly workarounds according to haali)

it should work tough with asp and avc with the nero, moonlight and elecard decoder, which it doesnt.
the gabest splitter outputs mpeg2video tough but seems to do something incompliant, which only ffdshow supports
i dunno how to check this but below mpeg2video it has to support avc1 or so to work together with the mentioned decoders. maybe gabest can ask haali for what exactly has to be done?

[Yong]

...
Anyway, this is getting off topic. Back to the bugreports. Is anyone else experiencing skippy audio (which I mentioned here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=731412#post731412)) playback in mp4 with MPC's internal AAC decoder, or is it just me?
i have the same problem too.
but i use this (http://ffdshow.faireal.net/mirror/Misc/) heaac-v2 encoder with 64kbps stereo setting .(EnhAACPlus_630_ICL9.7z)
it skip about 2 second, at same fixed location(00:11 jump to 00:14), but sometime it doesnt happend.
more testing to be done :p
(just try an itunes encoded aac 128kbps, no skipping problem :)

[Elias]

i have the same problem too.
but i use this (http://ffdshow.faireal.net/mirror/Misc/) heaac-v2 encoder with 64kbps stereo setting .(EnhAACPlus_630_ICL9.7z)
it skip about 2 second, at same fixed location(00:11 jump to 00:14), but sometime it doesnt happend.
more testing to be done :p
(just try an itunes encoded aac 128kbps, no skipping problem :)Thanks, now I know that I'm somehow not alone and it's not my computer that's b0rked. I've sent Gabest an mp4 file for him to work with. More testing needs to be done, but it's perhaps solved, we'll see :)

Edit: I think Gabest has squashed this bug now, but I'm not sure yet.

[bond]

ok my updated test results:

- mp1, mp2, mp3 should now be correctly signalled by the splitter (and works with the default windows decoders)
- the splitter should now be able to correct correctly with avc to nero, moonlight, elecard and ffdshow, for asp with nero and ffdshow (and all other decoders supporting the used way, which excludes xvid, divx and 3ivx)
- it handles track names
- it handles track languages
- splitter doesnt connect to the windows mpeg-1 video decoder <- fixed

3) 64bit mdat atoms are not supported (as created by nero a long time - still?) works

5) ttxt subs not supported (elias says it works, any hint how to exactly get it to work?)works with directvobsub/vsfilter here (shows only text tough, so no colors, fonts or anything else more advanced supported)
i couldnt get the internal mpc subs decoding to work

2) chapters are not supported chapters are supported now



open issues:

- when playing mp2 audio and stoping during playback, restarting the stream doesnt work anymore
- when playing the arbitrary p-frame order clip avc-main_b0_arbitraryframeorder_mainconcept_mp4box.mp4, the playback freezes at the end (probably because a duplicate dts is stored in the ctts for one of the last frames)
- splitter recognizes the -sbr signalling of he-aac, but doesnt recognize the -sbrx one or the non-signalling, which has no influence on the correct decoding with faad2 based and any other standard compliant decoder tough

my first test results:
1) seems like all mp4ui samples crashseems mp4ui samples now play fine tough on one file the lenght of the file seems to be borked (propably a mp4ui bug)

4) delays between a/v are not supported (edit list) still the case

6) vobsub subs not supportedstill the case

[Elias]

First post updated, check it for information about new features in latest MPC!

[Kurtnoise]

Why not update your title subject too ? Just my 2 € cents... :D


@Bond : chapters and vobsubs supports are not included into Bento4. But you know like me that Gabest is THE best. So, we can pray... :p

[bond]

i can confirm he is working on chapters ;)

[clsid]

Support for HD .mov files would be nice. Haali's splitter supports them.

I rename them to .mp4 to play them with haali/ffdshow instead of QuickTime.

[bond]

renaming .mov to .mp4 is not correct! mov and mp4 is not the same!

afaik you can also play .mov files with haali without the need for renaming!

[Yong]

Thanks, now I know that I'm somehow not alone and it's not my computer that's b0rked. I've sent Gabest an mp4 file for him to work with. More testing needs to be done, but it's perhaps solved, we'll see :)

Edit: I think Gabest has squashed this bug now, but I'm not sure yet.
uhm...
the bug still there...
same skippy, same location :p

[Elias]

uhm...
the bug still there...
same skippy, same location :pI was talking about the latest build he sent me. But could you try pressing O when you open MPC, and then check the box "process priority above normal?" It might fix this issue.

[clsid]

renaming .mov to .mp4 is not correct! mov and mp4 is not the same!

afaik you can also play .mov files with haali without the need for renaming!
If I instruct MPC to play .mov files using DirectShow then Haali's splitter will indeed be used. But I don't want to use DirectShow to play my old .mov files. So renaming is a quick (and dirty) fix.

Aren't the HD .mov files just mp4 with some proprietary values? Tools like mp4info work fine on them.

[Yong]

I was talking about the latest build he sent me. But could you try pressing O when you open MPC, and then check the box "process priority above normal?" It might fix this issue.
hmm, doesnt help... :(
i think its the mpc internal mp4 splitter problem,
ive tried to decode heaac/v2 with internal aac decoder, coreaac n ffdshow libfaac, still got skippy problem...

[Elias]

Aren't the HD .mov files just mp4 with some proprietary values? Tools like mp4info work fine on them.No. mp4 is based largely on the structure of mov and the similarities are there. That's why mov works in many ways the same as mp4 does (or vice versa). However, they're not the same container format. So please, don't rename mov to mp4 and spread them around, because that if anything will be confusing for people (when things don't work properly) who don't know this kind of stuff.hmm, doesnt help... :(
i think its the mpc internal mp4 splitter problem,
ive tried to decode heaac/v2 with internal aac decoder, coreaac n ffdshow libfaac, still got skippy problem...It is slightly corrected in the latest build (I think).

[bond]

If I instruct MPC to play .mov files using DirectShow then Haali's splitter will indeed be used. But I don't want to use DirectShow to play my old .mov files. So renaming is a quick (and dirty) fix.mpc's internal mp4 splitter also uses directshow

apart from that mpc doesnt contain a inbuilt avc and asp video decoder, so you have to use a directshow decoder anyways

Aren't the HD .mov files just mp4 with some proprietary values? Tools like mp4info work fine on them. mov and mp4 is similar but not the same

eg aac is stored differently in mov and in mp4, so when renaming an aac-in-mov file to .mp4 you dont get a spec compliant aac-in-mp4 file

[bond]

i can confirm he is working on chapters ;)i can confirm chapters are working now ;)

[Yong]

.It is slightly corrected in the latest build (I think).
here are the samples that cause the skippy problem:
http://s28.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3G34PWWRCZYPA180I33YN38HYY
http://s28.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=37D31WUG6CRLY0PRDEMINI2BTB

[Elias]

here are the samples that cause the skippy problem:
http://s28.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3G34PWWRCZYPA180I33YN38HYY
http://s28.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=37D31WUG6CRLY0PRDEMINI2BTByes... skippy definitely. Same issue as I have with my mp4 audio files. Nice music btw. Who's the artist?

Edit: Damn HE-AAC gives great audio quality! only 48 kbps for stereo, and it sounds crystal clear!

bond is getting skippy audio too.

[Peuj]

bond is getting skippy audio too.
skippy for me too, around 13 sec on the first sample and at start on the second sample.
I reproduce it everytime if I close MPC and play the file. If I play the file and then play again without closing MPC I don't reproduce the problem (but maybe it's normal).

...Nice music btw. Who's the artist?
yep really nice, looks like anime music

[Elias]

Gabest states that the skippy AAC playback in mp4 is now fixed. I'll have to test this myself in order to confirm it. After that, MPC will replace Winamp as my default audio player :)

Edit: I can now confirm that the skippy-AAC-playback-in-mp4 bug has been squashed. The new MSN7 audio/video title dislay works beautifully too :)

[Kurtnoise]

Can we have a new fresh build from CVS ?

[Elias]

Can we have a new fresh build from CVS ?I'll have to ask Gabest about that for permission: he doesn't want too many MPC betas spreading around; no torrents this time. But I'm sure that it'll be okay if I'll add it to rapidshare. Anyway, make sure to check the first post, because I'll be updating it every now and then.

[Kurtnoise]

ok I see...but why a permission ? The sources are on cvs. So, anybody can make a build for his personal using. :)

[Elias]

ok I see...but why a permission ? The sources are on cvs. So, anybody can make a build for his personal using. :)Well, last time I asked if I should upload the beta (the last one), he said strictly NO. I did it anyway :D It helped us find a few bugs, but he wanted it down from that torrent site. I think I'll add it in the first post through rapidshare in a moment. It can be deleted off of rapidshare anyway.

[Elias]

New CVS of MPC added! Check first post!

[Liisachan]

Testing 2005-11-03, I got a random crash once
when seeking an ordinary xvid.avi, but just once so far,
and not reproducible. (The exception Integer division by zero. (0xc0000094) occurred in the application at location 0x04d4b16d.)

About the VMR Renderless sub timing Gabest fixed:
So far everything seems to be frame-accurate now (not sure about VFR though).
I'm really thankful.

Possible cosmetic problem:
I'm on Windows 2000, so (basically) I can't use VMR7
Yet, "DirectX 7" is not grayed out in Options|output|realmedia/QuickTime.
(If I select that, I get the DirectX 9 thing)

[Egh]

About the VMR Renderless sub timing Gabest fixed:
So far everything seems to be frame-accurate now (not sure about VFR though).
I'm really thankful.



Well, it was fixed for sure. Doesn't matter if it's vfr or not. All is working superb :) Apart from some small, but annoying glitches:

@Gabest (if he reads this branch, if not, then tell me and I'll put those on the bugtracker).

Though I think that framenumber of current frame is not correct sometimes. Meaning if I have a file VFR but all @ 29.97fps, then one particular frame has one frame number, but when I load a file with timecode applied (mkv with 23.976 and 29.97 fps used), then _same_ frame will have another frame number.

I don't understand why it's happening :P Timestamp must be different for each frame, that's natural. But why cardinal frame number is different, i haven't got any clue ;)

Also, I believe "left arrow" key should move to the previous frame, right? (same as right arrow key is used for next frame). Why does it not work? :P
Also there possibly are glitches with next frame as well. Sometimes it doesn't go to the next frame when you press the key. Frame numbers in some cases are not updated despite moving to next frame (probably due to b-frames used in avc streams).


Another thing: though technically correct, it's not very much convinient. I use an option "rewind when finished playing" in mpc. It's good and convinient. But when I move frame-by-frame near the end of the file, it also rewinds when reaching last frame of the video. In this case I would rather expect to pause on the last frame. Worse if "repeat forever" option is on in mpc. Then moving frame-by-frame after reaching last frame of video mpc starts video playback from the begining of the file.


That's all for today :) Glitches are small but a bit annoying for me (i use frame by frame movement quite often for QC encode and signs in softsubs).

[The Link]

It seems that MPC's internal MP4 splitter cannot handle chapters while Haali's splitter can (including chapter specific tags). Also after disabling the internal MP4 splitter in MPC the player doesn't use Haali's splitter anymore (WMP works just fine). But this could also be a problem on my side, dunno.

Regards,
The Link

edit: I solved the issue by disabling the internal MPEG Audio support (my test file was a mp3 in mp4 with chapters). Though I don't know why this should be neccessary.

[Stanislas]

Testing a 2005-11-03 build I got a bug in with cyrillic chapter names. When i open file with chapters names in cyrillic and used menu "navigate->jump to->" in list of chapters I see latin sabra-cadabra insted of cyrilic for example (раздел 1). But in menu "play->audio->" cyrillic names of audio tracks are well.
The problem is small but annoying.

[bond]

Testing a 2005-11-03 build I got a bug in with cyrillic chapter names. When i open file with chapters names in cyrillic and used menu "navigate->jump to->" in list of chapters I see latin sabra-cadabra insted of cyrilic for example (раздел 1). But in menu "play->audio->" cyrillic names of audio tracks are well.
The problem is small but annoying.did you produce the clip?
mpc uses your windows default code page, so if there is a mismatch between your windows and the code page used by the one who created the file, such glitches can occur

[Stanislas]

Yes, I create this clip by nero recode. By the way in v.6.4.8.4. everything all right. I'll try create a new one in mkv and mp4 and report soon.

[bond]

Yes, I create this clip by nero recode. By the way in v.6.4.8.4. everything all right. I'll try create a new one in mkv and mp4 and report soon.its still an non answered issue on what code page nero uses :/

[Elias]

Care to upload this clip so we can test it? It could be MSN's fault too, because åäö don't work with Winamp. Or this may not be an MSN issue? Either way, a sample would be nice.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Very nice work with the thread Elias.... well done ;)

[Elias]

Very nice work with the thread Elias.... well done ;)Thanks :) Not every day I hear that. Usually, it's: "STOP THIS MP4 MADNESS OF YOURS, IT'S ANNOYOING BLAH BLAH BLAH!"

:D

[Elias]

New MPC build in the first post. Check it out.

[Liisachan]

Update: 2005-11-06 01:15
5) Font type of the "white on black" texts in mpc has been changed to a different font, and it now supports unicode. It looks the same though.


I can see the Title info in MKV in Unicode even on Windows 2000.
This is great! :)

Before MPC could show it on Windows XP (perhaps thanks to font link) but couldn't on Windows 2000.

[Liisachan]

Mixture of English / Japanese / French / Russian and how MPC displays it.
This kind already worked on Windows XP, but it didn't on Windows 2000,
until this 6.4.8.6. Again, thank you so much!!! :D

mpc6485.png
http://ffdshow.faireal.net/mpc6485.png

mpc6486.png
http://ffdshow.faireal.net/mpc6486.png

EDIT: bidi tested! MPC can now even handle bidi.
mpc6486bidi.png
http://ffdshow.faireal.net/mpc6486bidi.png