Media Player Classic supports Matroska v2, *.mp4, *.mov, and MPEG-4 Timed Text

[Elias]

Update: 2006-02-06 17:30
The DVD region free decryption in MPC isn't working properly on my new laptop, and it's not working that well on bond's computer either. Is anyone else having issues with this? Let us know about it in this thread then. Also, in case you missed it: MPC's mov parser has been improved to handle AAC, and yesterday it also got some trimming for other less frequently used codecs in the mov container. Hmm... do you even have this latest build which can decrypt DVD drives? If not, I might have to upload it for you to try it out--if necessary.

Edit:
It appears that I somewhat misunderstood this. Allow me to explain: in older builds of MPC, you couldn't play DVDs of different regions other than the region that Windows had set--even if your DVD drive was patched to be regionfree. So, what Gabest has done now is to override this silly lockout. It doesn't mean that MPC decrypts the DVD-ROM region like libdvdcss does, but it's a step towards the right direction at least :) In other words: it won't work if you don't have a regionfree DVD-ROM...

Update: 2006-01-19 12:53
Gabest is working on making MPC region free for DVD drives. It will work pretty much like VLC, but it won't use libdvdcss for decrypting the region drive codes. I've tested it, and it works great. However, I can't upload this beta-test version to you because Gabest doesn't consider it stable, and he doesn't want this version to spread around because of that.

Changelog: MPC 6.4.8.7 (https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=82303&package_id=84358)
1) Matroska splitter updated to handle AVC, and support for simpleblock and header stripping. In other words: Matroska v2 should work without crashing.
2) Major improvement for *.ttxt support, everything except scrolling and clickable urls work now.
3) Shaders reworked a bit.
4) Added shortcuts to set start/stop times in subresync.
5) MPEG-2 decoder had a few fixes.

Update: 2005-11-13 15:40
Rapidshare (http://rapidshare.de/files/7574300/media.player.classic-2005-11-13.rar.html)
Torrent (http://www.mininova.org/tor/152733) (I know the date is wrong, I forgot to change it)

Changelog:
1) MPEG-4 Timed Text decoding/parsing has gotten closer to the standard by the additions of more advanced features. Gabest is also working on the implementation of blinking, karaoke and scrolling.
2) The Properties>Details issue has been solved (some characters at the end had a tendency to be left out in the track names of mp4 files).
3) Several MPEG-2 fixes.
4) Every Timed Text subtitle is now rendered in two modes where one is plain text mode, and the other is a more stylised version. It looks like this:
Subtitle [GPAC Streaming Text Handler (ger)]
Subtitle: UTF-8 [GPAC Streaming Text Handler (ger) (plain text)]
Subtitle [GPAC Streaming Text Handler (eng)]
Subtitle: UTF-8 [GPAC Streaming Text Handler (eng) (plain text)]
5) When clicking the Properties>Details MPC could hang up. This is now resolved.
6) Saving of (right click on playlist>save as) MPC Playlist (mpcpl) now no longer stores the file path if the mpcpl is stored in the same directory as the actual songs/movies. This is a similar way of how Winamp stores files in m3u/pls.

I will update this changelog as soon as I get more information from Gabest.

Update: 2005-11-06 01:15 Torrent (http://www.mininova.org/tor/147034) or Rapidshare (http://rapidshare.de/files/7245169/media.player.classic-2005-11-06.rar.html). Since Gabest doesn't update the changelog anymore, I'll do my best to write down what has been updated, from what I can remember of my conversations with Gabest, so bear with me if I've gotten this semi-changelog somewhat inaccurate. The new build section is correct though, I know this since I requested these changes and Gabest added them today.

In today's CVS build, the new features are:
1) The playlist is now automatically hidden when one file is opened, since there's no need for a playlist when it's only one file. Of course, this is provided that you had the playlist on from the previous session (this feature isn't working properly for me, sometimes it hides, sometimes it doesn't).
2) Meta tags reading in mp4 files, Winamp/iTunes style. I haven't checked if the latest Winamp 5.11 tags mp4 files in accordance with the way iTunes does it, but if it does, then iTunes tags in mp4 will be readable by MPC as well. Would be nice if someone could check this up and corroborate.
3) MPC now displays the artist/album/track/title/year in MSN, so it's a little bit improved when compared to how it was before. This applies for mp4 files with meta tags, and mp3 files with id3 v1 tags.
4) Version number has been updated to 6.4.8.6 BUT, this is not the next stable release, yet...
5) Font type of the "white on black" texts in mpc has been changed to a different font, and it now supports unicode. It looks the same though. It used to be on "MS Sans Serif", and that didn't support unicode, now it is set to "Microsoft Sans Serif", which does.
6) Shuffle (right click on the playlist) has been added, as an alternative to the randomize function. This works in a similar way to Winamp's shuffle mode.
7) Decoding of m3u playlist files saved by Winamp, has been improved to filter out unsupported text encoding in the playlist.

From previous builds after the last public stable release:
8) The mp4 parser has been fixed for other decoders like Nero/3ivx/Elecard since they require uppercase letters like MP4V/AVC1 instead of the usual mp4v/avc1. This means in theory that you won't need ffdshow for mp4 files any longer if you have any of those decoders installed. But please try decoding with the mentioned decoders to see if this works.
9) Chapter times in mp4 has been fixed.
10) AVC in *.mov plays, but the audio doesn't so far.
11) Skippy AAC playback in mp4 has been fixed. Damn this post has gotten huge :D

Update: 2005-11-04 00:27 Okay, here's (http://rapidshare.de/files/7155130/media.player.classic-2005-11-03.rar.html)the latest CVS from Gabest (a few hours old). It has this new MSN7 compatible feature where you can display the title of your songs and movies. It's really neat! I haven't noticed any bugs so far with this version, but if you do, please report them in this thread. The skippy aac in mp4 playback bug has been fixed too. Try this new MSN feature with songs of different characters, like chinese, japanese etc. Non english/latin letters.

Update: 2005-11-01 22:05 Gabest is adding MSN compatibility in the latest build of MPC as we speak. It will, just like Winamp and Windows Media Player be able to display what songs or movies you're playing in MSN Messenger. I found this thread (http://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic.php?t=8721). The first time I gave it to him (several months ago), he didn't care. But nowadays, Gabest has injected MPC steroids and he's working miracles by adding this and loads of features and bugfixes. So now you got one incentive less to use Windows Media Player and go Media Player Classic! Just thought that you'd like to know, since Gabest won't be releasing a changelog this time either :(

Update: 2005-10-30 20:18 (New stable release, leech away!)

MPC has gone stable now. Thanks for all your help and testing. Enjoy! (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=82303&package_id=84358)
http://www.mininova.org/tor/142354

Update: 2005-10-30 11:49 (OLD BETA VERSIONS, DON'T DOWNLOAD THEM!)

http://rapidshare.de/files/6951443/Media_Player_Classic_2005-10-30.rar.html
http://www.mininova.org/tor/141626

Try out the new close/log off/stand by/hibernate/shutdown options located in the play>after playback menu. Was somewhat buggy here with me. Hibernate made a real mess. Have in mind that Gabest had not tried these closing commands when he sent me the build, so you're warned; your computer can explode and kill you, or it can become a Resident Evil zombie :)

This will probably be the last build I provide for MPC. Gabest will probably release a new build of MPC today or something, so if you still want to help out, check this build out. I got it last night. It still has some bugs that Gabest has now fixed though.

Update: 2005-10-26 17:28 (OLD BETA VERSIONS, DON'T DOWNLOAD THEM!)

http://www.mininova.org/tor/138710
http://rapidshare.de/files/6787813/Media_Player_Classic_2005-10-26__bleeding_edge_.rar.html

Both links are to the same file. If you're somehow unable to download because of firewall issues, try the torrent link. Latest build as of today, capable of handling 3gp, and improved AVC support. And if you don't know what bleeding edge is, check the comment inside the rar file.

2005-10-25 12:20 Download the latest MPC CVS (just got it from Gabest), and try it out with every mp4 file you got, and report the results here in this thread (NOT to Gabest).

He's working on mp4 file format support. So Beta testers are needed. By the way, make sure to test it with all kinds of mp4 files (like AVC, VCD, SVCD, mp3 in mp4 etc), even b0rked ones created by mp4UI, and ones containing MPEG-4 Timed Text etc. PSP mp4 files too, and of course, 3gp files, mp4v/mp4a and XviD/Nero Digital as well.

P.S. the d3dx9_27.dll is no longer static (it's dynamic now), and Gabest cannot put it inside mplayerc.exe any longer, so you'll have to have it in the same folder as mpc. I'm writing this down only because everyone is asking him about it.[11:40:58] Elias: d3dx9_27.dll is that the mp4 splitter?
[11:41:27] Gabest: no, that's the d3dx lib, it was made a standalone dll by MS
[11:41:40] Gabest: I can no longer link it to the player
[11:42:04] Elias: all right
[11:42:22] Elias: I'll disable haali and the nero parser now to see if it can parse mp4 files
[11:43:21] Gabest: you can read how much avery lee liked this dll: http://virtualdub.org/blog/pivot/entry.php?id=70#body :PThere won't be a changelog either, since Gabest doesn't care about one: [21:42:46] Elias: will there be a changelog at all?
[21:43:18] Gabest: no one is willing to make one!
[21:43:33] Gabest: I asked myself and I said no..
[21:45:45] Elias: haha

[dimzon]

http://rapidshare.de/files/6731727/mpc.7z.html
Please, upload on another hosting!!!!

[Elias]

Please, upload on another hosting!!!!What's wrong with it? Either way, done.

[bond]

http://rapidshare.de/files/6731727/mpc.7z.html

Download the latest MPC CVS (just got it from Gabest), and try it out with every mp4 file you got, and report the results here in this thread (NOT to Gabest).wow thx for the info!

if anyone is interested you can find the source here (http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/guliverkli/guliverkli/src/filters/parser/mp4splitter/?sortby=date)

it is based on the new bento4 mp4 code, i hope its any stable...

i hope someone can make a standalone build? its easier to test it in graphedit imho

By the way, make sure to test it with all kinds of mp4 files (like AVC, VCD, SVCD, mp3), even b0rked ones created by mp4UI, and ones containing MPEG-4 Timed Text etc. PSP mp4 files too, and of course, mp4v/mp4a, XviD/Nero Digital as well. hehe a good opportunity for gabest to maybe update vsfilter to handle ttxt :)

(of course vcd/svcd is mpeg-1/2 and not .mp4, but you can place mpeg-1/2 video in .mp4 too, which is i guess what elias meant)

[Elias]

wow thx for the info!

(of course vcd/svcd is mpeg-1/2 and not .mp4, but you can place mpeg-1/2 video in .mp4 too, which is i guess what elias meant)No problem. And yes, that's what I meant :) Edited any way.

[asasadad_1]

mpeg-2 video in mp4 can not be recognised (haali media splitter does).

[Elias]

mpeg-2 video in mp4 can not be recognised (haali media splitter does).I know, I told him this and he's working on it :)

Edit: or wait a second... I believe it was MPEG-1 in mp4 that didn't work... yeah well. It's good that you posted it here.

[dimzon]

What's wrong with it?
My corporative firewall blocks rapidShare and i have not other internet access...

[Elias]

My corporative firewall blocks rapidShare and i have not other internet access...I see. Check the first post again.

[multicone]

Will Gabest also update the outdated matroska splitter ? Simple block ?

[Elias]

Will Gabest also update the outdated matroska splitter ? Simple block ?I don't know. I'll update the first post in a second with a newer build of MPC able to render MPEG-4 Timed Text subs, MPEG-1, MPEG-2, mp2 and mp3 in mp4.

hehe a good opportunity for gabest to maybe update vsfilter to handle ttxt :)The latest build I've uploaded is capable of handling ttxt in mp4, without the vsfilter (I don't think I've got it installed, and it worked for me). Just put the renderer on vmr renderless (7 or 9), and it'll handle MPEG-4 Timed Text.

[yaz]

is chaptering supported as well ? i've got a file w/chapters sw but i can't find it now :( would someone test it, pls ?

tested w/12 different short mp4 clips so far. seems to work fine. gabest, thx a lot !!!

thx
y

[Liisachan]

Tested x264.mp4, including (AVC+MP3).mp4 and (AVC+MP2).mp4.
They do play, but the result is less smooth compared with the result by Haali's filter.
Coding order vs Display order confusion?

Edit: I checked the frame type and apparently MPC doesn't handle Bs properly. This thing is supposed to be 23.976fps

MPC's internal MP4 Splitter
0;62.50;I
1; 7.14;P
3;21.28;B <-- 3 before 2
2;21.28;P
4;62.50;P
5;66.67;P
6;62.50;P
7;15.87;P
8;21.74;P
9;31.25;P
10;21.28;P
11;16.13;P
12;32.26;I
13;21.28;P
14;32.26;P
15;21.28;P
17;31.25;B <-- 17 before 16
16;10.75;P
18;62.50;P
20;62.50;B <-- 20 before 19
19;12.82;P
21;32.26;P
23;62.50;B <-- 23 before 22
22;12.82;P
25;66.67;P


Haali's Splitter
Current frame: ;Decoder FPS: ;Frame type:
2; 0.05;I
3; 6.37;P
4;21.28;B
5;32.26;P
6;32.26;P
7;32.26;P
8;21.28;P
9;32.26;P
10;21.28;P
11;31.25;P
12;16.13;P
13;32.26;P
14;21.28;I
15;21.28;P
16;21.28;P
17;32.26;P
18;21.28;B
19;32.26;P
20;21.28;P
21;32.26;B
22;21.28;P
23;21.28;P
25;32.26;B

[Stebs]

If you download the Apple Quicktime AVC samples (for example Wildlife): http://www.apple.com/quicktime/guide/hd/wildlifehdreel.html
(Download is easy with new Versions of Quicktime Alternative)
And rename them to .mp4, the video plays well (if ffdshow takes care of AVC), but there is no AAC sound anymore... Seems the splitter has a problem there.

Every other mp4 files I had worked just fine though... :)

[Elias]

A new build of MPC has been updated and added in the first post, try it out.

Tested x264.mp4, including (AVC+MP3).mp4 and (AVC+MP2).mp4.
They do play, but the result is less smooth compared with the result by Haali's filter.
Coding order vs Display order confusion?

Edit: I checked the frame type and apparently MPC doesn't handle Bs properly. This thing is supposed to be 23.976fps[16:39:24] Elias: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=729017#post729017
[16:39:37] Elias: what's up with that? I thought that AVC worked as it should?
[16:40:34] Gabes: yea, the build I gave you yesterday was playing a bit skippy
[16:40:49] Gabes: though it's not my problem, but ffdsow's :P
[16:41:26] Gabes: if I use the plain videoinfo format it forgets to reorder the decoder frames and the timestamps are not lineary increasing
[16:41:39] Gabes: I only noticed this yesteday
[16:41:43] Elias: I see
[16:41:46] Elias: is it fixed?
[16:42:03] Gabes: it si
[16:42:03] Gabes: is
[16:42:09] Elias: great!
[16:42:19] Gabes: also added mobil phone formats
[16:42:21] Gabes: e
[16:42:27] Gabes: ffdshow decodes them nicely
If you download the Apple Quicktime AVC samples (for example Wildlife): http://www.apple.com/quicktime/guide/hd/wildlifehdreel.html
(Download is easy with new Versions of Quicktime Alternative)
And rename them to .mp4, the video plays well (if ffdshow takes care of AVC), but there is no AAC sound anymore... Seems the splitter has a problem there.

Every other mp4 files I had worked just fine though... :)
[17:00:17] Elias: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=729045#post729045
[17:00:34] Gabes: hmm
[17:02:04] Gabes: there are movs on apple's page
[17:02:21] Elias: yes, with AAC/AVC
[17:02:33] Gabes: downloading one
[17:10:03] Elias: how's it going with them movs? :D
[17:10:12] Gabes: nothing yet
[17:10:18] Elias: hmm ok
[17:34:07] Gabes: eh
[17:34:44] Gabes: I give up, this has some kind of mov specific mp4a descriptor
[17:34:51] Gabes: http://developer.apple.com/documentation/QuickTime/APIREF/sounddescriptionv1.htm
[17:35:02] Gabes: and a few more child atoms under that
[17:35:32] Elias: dude fuck mov, it's just a hassle, and not worth it... don't add more support for it than you've done... we don't need more mov files floating around the internet :D
[17:35:41] Gabes: lol
[17:36:19] Gabes: bento4 have the mp4 version of mp4a hardcoded
[17:36:42] Gabes: unless they change it to support mov I won't fix it myself

Will Gabest also update the outdated matroska splitter ? Simple block ?
[16:58:45] Elias: Will Gabest also update the outdated matroska splitter ? Simple block ? <--- what about that btw?
[16:59:00] Elias: why does haali disable your mkv splitter? is your inferior?
[16:59:21] Gabes: I saw that post about simpleblock
[16:59:35] Gabes: but I couldn't find anything to produce such mkv file
[17:00:07] Gabes: the latest mkvmerge looks too old to do it, release date is october 16th or something

is chaptering supported as well ? i've got a file w/chapters sw but i can't find it now :( would someone test it, pls ?No, Gabest will not support Nero Digital Chapters in mp4, neither will he support DivX6 style chapters.

[stephanV]

what do divx6 style chapters have to do with mp4???

[bond]

my first test results:
1) seems like all mp4ui samples crash
2) chapters are not supported (moo, why not?)
3) 64bit mdat atoms are not supported (as created by nero a long time - still?)
4) delays between a/v are not supported (edit list)
5) ttxt subs not supported (elias says it works, any hint how to exactly get it to work?)
6) vobsub subs not supported

mpeg-2 video in mp4 can not be recognised (haali media splitter does).where does this info come from? somehow i doubt thats true

[Elias]

what do divx6 style chapters have to do with mp4???Gabest mentioned it when I asked him about Nero, so I thought I just as well might add it along in case anyone would ask.

1) seems like all mp4ui samples crash mp4UI files won't be supported. Gabest says that they're broken, and he likes doing nothing about it :)

5) ttxt and vobsub subs not supportedvobsubs in mp4 won't be supported. ttxt worked for me, you sure about this? Make sure to put the output on vmr (7 or 9, doesn't matter... I've posted this before) renderless before you try ttxt subs.

[bond]

ttxt worked for me, you sure about this? what did you do to make it work?

[Liisachan]

A new build of MPC has been updated and added in the first post, try it out.

[16:39:24] Elias: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=729017#post729017
[16:39:37] Elias: what's up with that? I thought that AVC worked as it should?
[16:40:34] Gabes: yea, the build I gave you yesterday was playing a bit skippy
[16:40:49] Gabes: though it's not my problem, but ffdsow's :P
[16:41:26] Gabes: if I use the plain videoinfo format it forgets to reorder the decoder frames and the timestamps are not lineary increasing
[16:41:39] Gabes: I only noticed this yesteday
[16:41:43] Elias: I see
[16:41:46] Elias: is it fixed?
[16:42:03] Gabes: it si
[16:42:03] Gabes: is
Yeah, much better now.
btw the link you posted is a time waster, i kept being told "too many users blah blah retry later" and the BT is not working either.
mirrored (http://ffdshow.faireal.net/mpc20051026.7z)

[Elias]

Yeah, much better now.
btw the link you posted is a time waster, i kept being told "too many users blah blah retry later" and the BT is not working either.
mirrored (http://ffdshow.faireal.net/mpc20051026.7z)That's odd, I'm seeding it :S Bad tracker I guess. And it worked perfect for me to download it from rapidshare.

where does this info come from? somehow i doubt thats trueMPEG-2 in mp4 didn't work in the first build of MPC I posted. It does now.

[fight2win]

woohooo, mpc supporting all kinds of mp4 file, now that's cool!

[Elias]

woohooo, mpc supporting all kinds of mp4 file, now that's cool!Not only that, it kicks major ass too! All we need now is an internal mpeg-4 decoder for mpc, and then we got it made. Gabest pleeeeeaaase!

[Egh]

Well, MPC is g00d. But I highly doubt MP4 splitting is so needed. Haali did exceptionally excellent job with his splitter.

I hope that in new version gabest stream switcher will be better, it's not good yet. And some subtitle renderer stuff would need some tweaks too, imo.

[Liisachan]

That's odd, I'm seeding it :S Bad tracker I guess. And it worked perfect for me to download it from rapidshare. Probably some IP ranges are k-lined. Yeah, bad tracker. I'm still getting this error right now. (Time = UTC)
ERROR (10/27/05 00:10:21) -
Problem connecting to tracker - (10061, 'Connection refused')
The magnet: link there worked, but there were no seeders seen from me. So once I got the file, I began seeding for magnet as I saw other seedless leechers there. If you'd like to, you could use my tracker (http://www.faireal.net/phpbtt/). I'd be honored to help you out.

Not only that, it kicks major ass too! Speaking of "ASS" I'll have to check if the internal sub renderer has been fixed. I really really love MPC, that's practically the only video player I use, I swear by the name of Gabest :D but that off-by-one-frame softsub is not acceptable.

All we need now is an internal mpeg-4 decoder for mpc, and then we got it made. Gabest pleeeeeaaase! That'd be great :) And on the other hand, I'd like to see this internal MP4 filter as a separate DSFilter too, which can be used via any DSPlayer. Altho, I have no idea if that is possible... Oh and speaking of outer filters, it'd be great indeed if Gabest updates other filters, especially VSFilter, since it's weird to see "VSFilter+border fix"--an unofficial build probably taken from CCCP--even in the official Matroska Pack. I'd like to use official, "genuine-gabest" filters, in order to avoid any possible confusion. Anyway, I'm so happy to see what is going on now. Haali's filter is great, but Haali's filter and MPC both have the same functions such as multi-audio switcher, so sometimes I experience some kind of conflict using Haali filter+MPC. Of cource each has its own forte, but generally, all-in-one would be nice and handy. Thanks a bunch!!!

[Egh]

Speaking of "ASS" I'll have to check if the internal sub renderer has been fixed. I really really love MPC, that's practically the only video player I use, I swear by the name of Gabest :D but that off-by-one-frame softsub is not acceptable.

Oh and speaking of outer filters, it'd be great indeed if Gabest updates other filters, especially VSFilter, since it's weird to see "VSFilter+border fix"--an unofficial build probably taken from CCCP--even in the official Matroska Pack. I'd like to use official, "genuine-gabest" filters, in order to avoid any possible confusion.

Word on the net is (everybody rejoice in unity since gabest reincarnated online!!!) that there's an ASS :P which screws up current VSFilter. Aka simply crashes it. So VSFilter and internal sub renderers need to be fixed, true.

And what "border" fix are you talking about? IIRC MPC cvs build by gabest (0813) had some kind of fix in subs renderer.

About drivers and multi-audio stream switcher -- MPC internal one sucks. It doesn't have proper working selector of audio/subs somehow. So for MKVs there's nothing better than old g00d Haali splitter :)

So if Gabest could implement applying splitter only to selected extensions only... :P Practically the only file type I allow MPC to split internally is ogm. And only cause Haali is reluctant to implement it in his splitter :P

MKV, AVI, MP4 -- on those Haali works b3st :)

[Elias]

Well, I doubt that it's needed to use any more torrents for MPC. Most people here can download the file from Rapidshare, and Gabest is almost finished with the mp4 splitter. He might even release a new version of MPC today. By the way, he wants a matroska sample with simple block too. If anyone has one, upload it on rapidshare, or seed a torrent with one. He decided to fix that issue too :DWell, MPC is g00d. But I highly doubt MP4 splitting is so needed. Haali did exceptionally excellent job with his splitter.Sure, Haali is great. I don't see how an internal MPC splitter would hurt though. Haali could always make an option to disable MPC's internal mp4 splitter (just like he did with the Matroska splitter of MPC). But an internal splitter for mp4 in MPC is great for expanding the compatibility for mp4 files around the internet.

[Egh]

If anyone has one, upload it on rapidshare, or seed a torrent with one. He decided to fix that issue too :DSure, Haali is great. I don't see how an internal MPC splitter would hurt though. Haali could always make an option to disable MPC's internal mp4 splitter (just like he did with the Matroska splitter of MPC). But an internal splitter for mp4 in MPC is great for expanding the compatibility for mp4 files around the internet.

WTF is simple block mkv?

Also, mp4 is not particulary good format per se. I wouldn't even ever used if not the fact that Nero Recode writes output to .mp4.

Also, if Gabest finally does something with the code, plz somebody tell him that there's such a thing like *DAR aka Display Aspect Ratio*, and it's been known for ages that mpc has tremendous difficulties in auto-adjusting aspect ratio (far worse than zoomplayer btw).

I do NOT see that issue fixed in newer build and that's quite worrying.

[Liisachan]

Softsubs by MPC's internal renderer are still off-by-one frame in timing, even in this new beta.

Here's a definitive demo, where 2 ASS files (they are exactly identical except for positioning) are hardsubbed and then softsubbed.
Hard_vs_Softsubs.mkv (http://ffdshow.faireal.net/Hard_vs_Softsubs.mkv) (11 seconds, 48KB)

1. VSFilter
- Hardsubs and softsubs come and go at the same timing, as they should.

http://ffdshow.faireal.net/Hard_vs_Softsubs.vs.jpg

2. MPC's renderer
- Softsubs from MPC are almost always 1 frame too late, both for Start Time and End Time.

http://ffdshow.faireal.net/Hard_vs_Softsubs.mpc.jpg

I made this clip 10fps, so anyone can see the difference clearly, as the time lag is 0.1 seconds.

NOTE: This problem was already fixed in the officila 6.4.8.5, by Gabest's "nasty but elegant hack."

[Elias]

WTF is simple block mkv?I have no idea. Ask the poster that wanted it:Will Gabest also update the outdated matroska splitter ? Simple block ?

Also, mp4 is not particulary good format per se. I wouldn't even ever used if not the fact that Nero Recode writes output to .mp4.Well, there are better containers than mp4. The reason I like it, is because it's the native container of MPEG-4, and MPEG-4 rocks in my honest opinion. Still though, there's nothing wrong with mp4, it's pretty good actually. The only downside imho is that it doesn't support chapters yet (not as a standard). I like the fact that you can't put just any codec you want in it, because that means if it's an mp4, it will play (provided that it's done right), and people won't have to have 50 000 different codec decoders installed for one container (like avi), that just gets tiresome and redundant; I have lots of friends who message me constantly about codecs and that they're not playing. It's always with avi files. With a proper mp4, it'll always work as long as they use the right player. I like standards, I want to use standards, and support them. I do that by using them.

Also, if Gabest finally does something with the code, plz somebody tell him that there's such a thing like *DAR aka Display Aspect Ratio*, and it's been known for ages that mpc has tremendous difficulties in auto-adjusting aspect ratio (far worse than zoomplayer btw).

I do NOT see that issue fixed in newer build and that's quite worrying.We talked about this yesterday, and bond knows his shit :)[19:23:11] <Elias> Gabest2
[19:23:25] <Elias> will you implement DAR support in mp4?
[19:23:29] <Elias> would be awesome
[19:23:37] <Elias> VLC has it, MPC must have it too :D
[19:24:34] * Gabest2 has quit IRC
[19:25:12] <Elias> damn
[19:25:34] <|bond|> elias: par is done by the decoder not the parser
[19:25:45] <Elias> I wrote DAR
[19:26:14] <|bond|> ?
[19:26:24] <|bond|> DAR (of asp) is also done by the decoder
[19:26:27] <Elias> as in Display Aspect Ratio... MPEG-4 Anamorphic
[19:26:36] <Elias> hmm ok
[19:26:40] <Elias> didn't know that
[19:26:44] <|bond|> or better said by the rendererConclusion: it's not Gabest's fault. By the way, ffdshow supports proper Aspect Ratio decoding for MPEG-4 video, in avi and mp4 as well.

[Egh]

Well :P First of all I kinda like MKV format :) So I worry much more about that not mp4.

If that dude is SOOO high knowledge about mpc, could he explain me, why t3h hell DAR option [usually] works in ZP, but doesn't in MPC?

Have Gabest ever tested DAR option in VMR9 *renderless* mode? Some ppl say it works in VMR9 windowed, but on my system it doesn't work either way.

and, more important, if i can just manually *override* AR (context menu -- video frame) in mpc, why MPC can't do absolutely same thing but automatically, based on the DAR received? And Haali says MPC truly receives DAR from his splitter.

In fact, many noobz are annoyed by anamorphic releases because of failure of MPC to adjust AR automatically.

And of course I would like to have DAR in ffdhow, but it will take some more buggering from me finally to implement it there :) probably 20 lines of code, been asking for that for two months :)

[Elias]

Well :P First of all I kinda like MKV format :) So I worry much more about that not mp4.

If that dude is SOOO high knowledge about mpc, could he explain me, why t3h hell DAR option [usually] works in ZP, but doesn't in MPC?

Have Gabest ever tested DAR option in VMR9 *renderless* mode? Some ppl say it works in VMR9 windowed, but on my system it doesn't work either way.

and, more important, if i can just manually *override* AR (context menu -- video frame) in mpc, why MPC can't do absolutely same thing but automatically, based on the DAR received? And Haali says MPC truly receives DAR from his splitter.Dude, I've got no idea of what you're talking about. I'm not a coder. Ask them if you've got questions directed to them.

In fact, many noobz are annoyed by anamorphic releases because of failure of MPC to adjust AR automatically.I don't do Anamorphic "releases." I do use DAR though :) You can't blame Gabest for giving us a kick ass player for free. He's coding all alone on it, give him a break :)

And of course I would like to have DAR in ffdhow, but it will take some more buggering from me finally to implement it there :) probably 20 lines of code, been asking for that for two months :)You don't have to code anything with ffdshow to get DAR from it. Just check these two checkboxes and it'll be fine:

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/4623/ffdshowdar6jv.png

By the way, let's keep this thread as an MPC/mp4 thread :)

[stephanV]

PAR works fine in mpc if you select overlay mixer in your decoder (enabling it in mpc won't hurt either)

MPEG4 ASP does not have DAR.

[Elias]

MPEG4 ASP does not have DAR.Yes it does. http://img366.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mpeg4aspdar7gl.gif

[stephanV]

What that does is just converting DAR to PAR

[Elias]

What that does is just converting DAR to PARThen why is it (Picture Aspect Ratio) renamed to Display Aspect Ratio in the 1.1 (stable) build of XviD that's coming out soon?

[stephanV]

To avoid confusing with PAR; DAR is just there for people who don't know how to handle a calculator. :p

[Egh]

Gimme the address where the Gabest reincarnated :)

P.S. i *specifically* said VMR9, not overlay mixer.

[Elias]

Gimme the address where the Gabest reincarnated :)I don't think I have his permission to give that out. He doesn't want everyone to ask him lots of questions 24/7. He's a busy man :) Try emailing him at gabest AT gabest DOT org and pray for an answer :D

[celtic_druid]

When I tested XviD's fixed PAR resizing for non packed bframes, I tested with MPC and I had it set to VMR9. It has always resized correctly for me. As bond said it really shouldn't have anything to do with the player.

[Liisachan]

As a nit-picky test (?) I made a weird MP4 file by muxing AVC and MPEG-1 Layer 1.
The resulted file plays fine both in MPC and via Haali's filter.
I'm going to test some more weird MP4 files later :D

(BTW, "inaccurate frame-timing for softsubs" I mentioned is not nit-picky like above; it's a real critical, dead-or-alive problem, as any decent timers/typesetters put a great effort to make SSA/ASS frame-accurate, to avoid for instance a sub that overruns by 1 frame beyond the scene change.)

And what "border" fix are you talking about? I don't really know. CCCP people say (http://www.kickassanime.org/wiki/index.php?title=CCCP#Exactly_what_does_the_playback_pack_install_and_why.3F) "The official VSFilter 2.36 from Gabest contains a small border and shadow drawing bug for SRT/SSA subtitles. This build has been compiled from Gabest's source with the fix for that bug, and is otherwise identical." and Matroska people say (http://packs.matroska.org/Matroska_Pack_Full_v1.1.2_ReadMe.html) "VSFilter v2.36 + border fix 2005-03-20 Normal and Unicode version." That's all I know. Sorry for being off-topic, Elias.

BTW, iirc the anamorphic works on MPC/VM9 Renderless, if you tick "Use Overlay" in ffdshow.

[Elias]

As a nit-picky test (?) I made a weird MP4 file by muxing AVC and MPEG-1 Layer 1.
The resulted file plays fine both in MPC and via Haali's filter.
I'm going to test some more weird MP4 files later :D

(BTW, "inaccurate frame-timing for softsubs" I mentioned is not nit-picky like above; it's a real critical, dead-or-alive problem, as any decent timers/typesetters put a great effort to make SSA/ASS frame-accurate, to avoid for instance a sub that overruns by 1 frame beyond the scene change.)

I don't really know. CCCP people say (http://www.kickassanime.org/wiki/index.php?title=CCCP#Exactly_what_does_the_playback_pack_install_and_why.3F) "The official VSFilter 2.36 from Gabest contains a small border and shadow drawing bug for SRT/SSA subtitles. This build has been compiled from Gabest's source with the fix for that bug, and is otherwise identical." and Matroska people say (http://packs.matroska.org/Matroska_Pack_Full_v1.1.2_ReadMe.html) "VSFilter v2.36 + border fix 2005-03-20 Normal and Unicode version." That's all I know. Sorry for being off-topic, Elias.

BTW, iirc the anamorphic works on MPC/VM9 Renderless, if you tick "Use Overlay" in ffdshow.No it's okay, you're talking about MPC, which isn't off topic :) Please do more weird mp4 files and test them. Gabest needs to know how it works with all kinds mp4 files. That critical thing you mentioned, is it something that can be fixed by providig Gabest a sample? What is softsubs? By the way, Gabest is reading this thread, so make sure you explain all the issues in a very detailed way.

Another thing I need some feedback on: the latest MPC that's up on Rapidshare, do you consider it in any way stable, or does it seem like Beta software (crashes etc)?

[Liisachan]

That critical thing you mentioned, is it something that can be fixed by providig Gabest a sample? What is softsubs? By the way, Gabest is reading this thread, so make sure you explain all the issues in a very detailed way. Gabest kindly answered here:
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=565649&aid=1280326&group_id=82303
and I've realized that this is not that easy. I was especially shocked to find that the current time stamp reported by DirectShow system is not deterministic. First time you play the file, DS may say "the frame 1 begins at 00:00.092" then second time you play the same file it may say "frame #1 is at 00.093", then "00.105" third time etc etc. Crazy, as Gabest said. How could the time stamp of the same frame of the same file change every time you play it? :angry:

The frame #1 (0-based) at 10 fps is supposed to begin at 00:00.10 of course, so if you wanted to start your subtitle at #1 you'd write "Start at 00:00.10" in your subtitle script, but MPC generally can't start the sub on the frame 1 because crazy DirectShow tells it "Hey, dude, the current time is 00.092" when it renders the frame 1 and MPC thinks "Ok, this subtitile is supposed to start at 00.100, so I have to wait more if it's 00.092 now"--the result is, subtitle is out-of-synch. When you specified "This sub should be on frames #1-10" MPC would probably display it on frames #2-11.

If the error was always -1 frame, some kind of simple hack for boked DS might work, but the error can be both +/- and the error changes each time you play the same file.

"Softsub" is a switchable, separated, subtitle stream. "Hardsub"--subtitles burnt permanently in video frames--is frame-accurate by definition (as it's a part of pictures in video frames), but softsub can be out-of-synch against the video frames, just like an audio stream could. Needless to say, no one wants to see any streams being out-of-synch.

This is what Gabest himself wrote in dsm.txt:

The algorithm of SyncPoints generation
--------------------------------------

First example:

stream 1: 1,5,8 (video)
stream 2: 2,3,6,7,9 (audio)
stream 3: 4 (subtitle)

1 ----| 1->2 1 +2 -> 1 (t 1, fp 1)
|---- 2 2->3 1,2 +3 -2 -> 1
|---- 3 3->4 1,3 +4 -> 1
+-|-- 4 (start) 4->5 1,3,4 +5 -1 -> 1
5 --|-| 5->6 3,4,5 +6 -3 -> 3 (t 5, fp 3)
| |---- 6 6->7 4,5,6 +7 -6 -> 4 (t 6, fp 4)
| |---- 7 7->8 4,5,7 +8 -7 -4 -> 4
+-|-- 4 (stop)
|---- 8 8->9 5,8 +9 -5 -> 5 (t 8, fp 5)
9 ----| 9->10 8,9 +10 -8 -> 8 (t 9, fp 8)
|---- 10 10-> 9,10 -> 9 (t 10, fp 9)
In this example, subtitle should be on 5 and not on 9. But actually that sub would be on 9 and not on 5 (or on 1 and not on5) unless you are just lucky. I confimed that by converting Hard_vs_Softsubs.mkv into .dsm. The problem is not in containers, but in DirectShow itself.

Another thing I need some feedback on: the latest MPC that's up on Rapidshare, do you consider it in any way stable, or does it seem like Beta software (crashes etc)? It's working flawlessly for me. I once experienced abnormally high CPU load when playing (XviD+2 Vorbis+SRT).mkv, which I've never experienced with the previous version, but I can't reproduce the problem. It happened only once. I monitored CPU load closely in different conditions, but nothing wrong was found. In some cases, the new beta seems to be slightly less CPU-intensive than celtic_druid's mplayerc2005.08.13.2kxp_27.7z (maybe just accidental), but mostly about the same than the previous versions.

http://ffdshow.faireal.net/cpu.png

[Liisachan]

Apparently MPC reports MP1/2 audio in .mp4 as mp3 (WAVE_FORMAT_MPEGLAYER3) to the downstream filter (ffdshow).
Although, it is quite possible that .mp4 files themselves are weird (they are made by VLC media player 0.8.4-test1a.)

This problem doesn't occur for MP2 in mkv.

More discussion including milan_cutka's comment and sample files:
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1340333&group_id=53761&atid=471489

Something isn't right for MP1 in mkv either. Even if MPC's internal MatroskaSplitter is enabled, Haali's splitter is loaded for mp1.mkv. I believe this one is MPC's problem.

Small Sample files (meaningless 10-second tone):
mpeg1-layer1.mkv (http://ffdshow.faireal.net/mpeg1-layer1.mkv)
mpeg1-layer2.mkv (http://ffdshow.faireal.net/mpeg1-layer2.mkv)

[Egh]

So I guess that "border" bugfix is what been implemented in celtic's build of MPC. Since there's a difference of 1px in parameters there (i.e. to achieve similar effect i had to increase border by 1px compared to March build by gabest)

[Drachir]

Apparently MPC reports MP1/2 audio in .mp4 as mp3 (WAVE_FORMAT_MPEGLAYER3) to the downstream filter (ffdshow).
Although, it is quite possible that .mp4 files themselves are weird (they are made by VLC media player 0.8.4-test1a.)


What ObjectTypeIndication is used for the Audio Track?

MP4Box -info file_created_with_VLC-0.8.4-test1a.mp4

http://www.itscj.ipsj.or.jp/sc29/open/29view/29n5556t.doc

[Elias]

Apparently MPC reports MP1/2 audio in .mp4 as mp3 (WAVE_FORMAT_MPEGLAYER3) to the downstream filter (ffdshow).
Although, it is quite possible that .mp4 files themselves are weird (they are made by VLC media player 0.8.4-test1a.)

This problem doesn't occur for MP2 in mkv.

More discussion including milan_cutka's comment and sample files:
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1340333&group_id=53761&atid=471489

Something isn't right for MP1 in mkv either. Even if MPC's internal MatroskaSplitter is enabled, Haali's splitter is loaded for mp1.mkv. I believe this one is MPC's problem.

Small Sample files (meaningless 10-second tone):
mpeg1-layer1.mkv (http://ffdshow.faireal.net/mpeg1-layer1.mkv)
mpeg1-layer2.mkv (http://ffdshow.faireal.net/mpeg1-layer2.mkv)I wouldn't recommend using VLC for mp4 creation (nothing bad about the player). Use MP4Box since it's the best thing for creating mp4 files.

[bond]

currently all mp4 muxers signal mp1, mp2 and mp3 audio the same way as "mpeg-1 audio", which is compliant to the mpeg-4 specs

the point why this is done that way is that the mpeg-1 specs require every mpeg-1 audio decoder supporting a specific layer to handle all lower layers too, eg a mp3 decoder has to support mp2 and mp1 too, at least thats what i think bill may or jeanlf told me once



btw if people want mp4 files of all imagineable sorts you can get my collection here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=88680)

[Liisachan]

So I guess that "border" bugfix is what been implemented in celtic's build of MPC. Since there's a difference of 1px in parameters there (i.e. to achieve similar effect i had to increase border by 1px compared to March build by gabest) Maybe... Like I said, a full explanation was not given anywhere. If you're really interested, how about installing CCCP or Matroska Pack yourself? Personally I wouldn't like to install them for several reasons, like I'd like to keep testing the newest ffdshow etc while MatroskaPack would install older ffdshow.

I wouldn't recommend using VLC for mp4 creation (nothing bad about the player). Use MP4Box since it's the best thing for creating mp4 files. :D I never use VLC to create .mp4 files for practical purposes, I wouldn't use MP1/2 to begin with (who would actually use MPEG-1 layer 1 today? :) ) You are the one who asked us to test even borked .mp4 files, and that's the only reason I did weird things using weird ways on purpose. I am actually mirroring the newest mp4box builds by celtic_druid.

Seriously tho, mkvmerge correctly transmuxes those mp1 / 2 / 3 in MP4 into A_MPEG/L1, L2, L3 respectively, so there should be a 'right' quick way to distinguish MPEG Layer in MP4, but on the other hand it is obvious that almost no one would use MP1/2 in MP4 anyway.

[Elias]

:D I never use VLC to create .mp4 files for practical purposes, I wouldn't use MP1/2 to begin with (who would actually use MPEG-1 layer 1 today? :) ) You are the one who asked us to test even borked .mp4 files, and that's the only reason I did weird things using weird ways on purpose. I am actually mirroring the newest mp4box builds by celtic_druid.Well, I meant more in general, you should use MP4Box :) it's good that you're trying different mp4 converters now :D How does that mp4 file play in MPC if created with mp1/2 using MP4Box/mp4UI?