Media Player Classic supports Matroska v2, *.mp4, *.mov, and MPEG-4 Timed Text [Archive] - Page 18

celtic_druid

14th April 2006, 11:14

I don't want Russian for everything though. With mkv, I can mux unicode chapters and they work fine. Would also be nice if MPC could read the language info for the chapters and use the correct character set though. For mp4box muxed stuff I guess it would need to read the video language since there doesn't seem to be a way to set it for chapters. Tried ANSI chapters set to rus in mkv and it didn't help.

Are you 100% sure that mplayerc2006.04.13.2kxp.7z was working and it wasn't just Haali's splitter or something? Because as I said, here it just crashed.

dimzon

14th April 2006, 11:44

Are you 100% sure that mplayerc2006.04.13.2kxp.7z was working and it wasn't just Haali's splitter or something? Because as I said, here it just crashed.
Yes, I'm 100% sure! And Haali (when used) works fine everytime!
I will try to create a small uploadable MP4 sample with russian chapters at weekend

celtic_druid

14th April 2006, 12:36

How about Osmo4 or Nero Showtime? Do they work for you? They didn't work here (same results as MPC).

SeeMoreDigital

14th April 2006, 14:04

I don't mind trying some (short) samples, if you want!

Please don't host them on RapidShare though ;)

Cheers

celtic_druid

14th April 2006, 14:17

Liisachan

14th April 2006, 15:04

celtic's new build.
mplayerc.rev587.2kxp.7z ( http://ffdshow.faireal.net/mirror/Media%20Player%20Classic/mplayerc.rev587.2kxp.7z)
Rev 584 585
More libssf
Revision 586
MERIT_UNLIKELY to MERIT_NORMAL in many filters not only [ 1469487 ] Real* decoders should have MERIT_NORMAL
MP4Splitter: AP4_MPEG2_PART3_AUDIO_OTI no more ignored. Tries to handle it anyway.
Revision 587
MixPath (animate?) "ssf's path animation is working now :D"

videomixer9

14th April 2006, 15:47

i hope spdif works again with this ...

asasadad_1

14th April 2006, 15:50

mp4 splitter(1.0.0.2) didn't demux mp3pro in mp4 (only video output,no audio), haali media splitter(mp4)(1.6.87.20) is the same as gabest's. NeroDigital / mp4 / avi / mov parser(2, 0, 5, 1) and MainConcept MP4 Demultiplexer(1, 4, 136, 60307) works well with mp3pro in mp4, here (http://rapidshare.de/files/17908375/mp3pro_noaudio__haali_gabest_.mp4.html) is a sample.
fixed in mplayerc.rev587.2kxp.7z!
gabest is a genius! maybe now i should rename my original sample to "mp3pro_noaudio(via haali)_audiowell(via gabest).mp4":p

Liisachan

14th April 2006, 16:15

gabest is a genius!

Didn't you know that ? :P

I posted ssf's path animation demo (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=813482#post813482), pictures & a real working script with video.

celtic_druid

14th April 2006, 17:14

That renders realtime for you? I had to use vsfilter and hardsub it to see it properly.

Liisachan

14th April 2006, 17:26

Yes, it is supposed to be autoloaded, if MPC's internal subtitler is enabled (VMR9 Renderless in my case). If it is not auto-loaded, how about Ctrl+L to manually load the .ssf file?

celtic_druid

14th April 2006, 17:36

It loads fine. It just doesn't display properly. Rendered via textsub, it is 100% smooth.

SeeMoreDigital

14th April 2006, 17:40

http://celticdruid.no-ip.com/test/chapter_test.7z
That is basically what I was using to test. Included an mkv with unicode chapters for comparison. Of course I can't read Russian so I don't know if it is right or not.Hmmm...

I don't think MediaPlayer Classic is totally at fault here because when you load the MP4 file into YAMB, it displays the chapters in the same way Media Player Classic does: -

YAMB: -
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1400/yamb1kk.png

Media Player Classic
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/3148/mp43pd.png

Cheers

Liisachan

14th April 2006, 17:41

@celtic_druid
Make sure that subpic buffering is disabled:
View | Options | Subtitles | Number of subpic... = 0

A fast CPU is needed, too.

celtic_druid

14th April 2006, 18:03

@SeeMoreDigital, yes but load the same text into your browser and set it to Cyrllic encoding and it should display properly.

I think what dimzon is getting at that if you set windows to Russian it should use Cyrllic encoding for the chapters and therefor display them correctly. Seems to me that it would be easier just to use unicode chapters.

@Liisachan, that got it working better. Still not as smooth as hard encoded via textsub though.

SeeMoreDigital

14th April 2006, 18:15

I think what dimzon is getting at that if you set windows to Russian it should use Cyrllic encoding for the chapters and therefor display them correctly. Seems to me that it would be easier just to use unicode chapters. Indeed...

ISO/IEE 14496 Part 17 of the MPEG-4 specification supports the use of "TTXT subtitles" conforming to UTF-8/16. So why not for chapters too ;)

Cheers

Liisachan

14th April 2006, 19:13

This is the first report about this issue, isn't it (8th March 2006, 15:39 UTC)? The questions is, did ANSI (non-unicode) chapters work ok before?

Fresh MPC with internal MP4 splitter displayng russian chapters (improper)

In 2005, it was
ChapAppend(chapter.Time, UTF8To16(ConvertMBCS(chapter.Name.c_str(), ANSI_CHARSET, CP_UTF8)));

Gabest changed it on Mar 8 20:46:32 2006 UTC, to
ChapAppend(chapter.Time, UTF8To16(ConvertMBCS(chapter.Name.c_str(), DEFAULT_CHARSET, CP_UTF8))); // this is b0rked, thx to nero :P

I'm not sure if this is related but if the timestamp is correct, it was just after your report, so I guess Gabest tried to fix the problem. If I'm guessing right, MPC needs chapter texts as WCHAR internally, and so it converts
binary data in the file -(1)-> UTF-8 -(2)-> WCHAR
Before, the conversion (1) was "ASCII->UTF-8" and here it was changed "the system's default CP->UTF-8". Looks like a proper solution... However on Mar 10 19:26:13 2006 UTC, for some reason Gabest changed that line back to
ChapAppend(chapter.Time, UTF8To16(ConvertMBCS(chapter.Name.c_str(), ANSI_CHARSET, CP_UTF8))); // this is b0rked, thx to nero :P

The comment "this is b0rked..." suggests that there is something tricky here.

Windows Code Pages are windows-dependent. You might want to always use Unicode to make your mp4 files more neutral, more portable...

celtic_druid

14th April 2006, 20:03

I tired muxing unicode chapters via mp4box. The result was an mp4 without chapters.

dimzon

14th April 2006, 20:53

http://celticdruid.no-ip.com/test/chapter_test.7z
That is basically what I was using to test. Included an mkv with unicode chapters for comparison. Of course I can't read Russian so I don't know if it is right or not.

this binary show russian chapters in MP4/MKV fine
celtic_druid's binary
mplayerc2006.04.13.2kxp.7z (http://ffdshow.faireal.net/mirror/Media%20Player%20Classic/mplayerc2006.04.13.2kxp.7z)
Probably rev583...
SSF: placement "org" attribute, origin of rotation, like ASS's \org
SSF: placement "path" attribute, "a series of x y coord pairs," probably like ASS's \p
SSF: bidi support is now a "todo" ^^;
DSMPropertyBag updated: something related to DSM Chapter?
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/9362/untitled20is.png

this binary contains this bug again!
mirrored mplayerc.rev585.2kxp.7z (http://ffdshow.faireal.net/mirror/Media%20Player%20Classic/mplayerc.rev585.2kxp.7z)

no more crash. plus a sub-chapter is now in the correct position (is correctly ordered) in the chapter list.
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/1572/untitled34zg.png

Keep in mind i'm using such settings:
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/7343/untitled6xe1.png

Cheers

celtic_druid

14th April 2006, 22:04

So it worked before that build also? Because that build is definatly broken, so who knows what is going on.

SeeMoreDigital

14th April 2006, 22:28

So it worked before that build also? Because that build is definatly broken, so who knows what is going on.Indeed!

When I tried the "mplayerc2006.04.13.2kxp.7z" it crashed with both of your (.MP4 and .MKV) samples.

Cheers

celtic_druid

14th April 2006, 22:34

So that's you me and Liisachan. I would think it crashes for anything with chapters, but then that goes against what dimzon is saying.

@dimzon, could you try my samples and see if it crashes your end?
You could also try: http://ffdshow.faireal.net/tmp/nested_subchap.mkv

dimzon

14th April 2006, 23:16

So that's you me and Liisachan. I would think it crashes for anything with chapters, but then that goes against what dimzon is saying.
Oh, I'm an idiot. I have messed MPC version so valid build is mplayerc2006.04.11.2kxp.7z, not mplayerc2006.04.13.2kxp.7z
mplayerc2006.04.13.2kxp.7z crashes on chapters
mplayerc.rev585.2kxp.7z doesn't display russian chapters

I'm very confused, please, sorry

foxyshadis

14th April 2006, 23:53

celtic_druid

15th April 2006, 00:29

Try: http://mirror05.x264.nl/celtic_druid/force.php?file=./mplayerc.7z

dimzon

15th April 2006, 00:38

Try: http://mirror05.x264.nl/celtic_druid/force.php?file=./mplayerc.7z
Russin chapters still invalid

Liisachan

15th April 2006, 01:35

It runs totally smooth for me, once buffering's disabled, just a bit slow. But shouldn't the spec include some kind of "this is a moving line, do not buffer me" assertion? Otherwise the cost of using all softsubs, not just trippy ones, goes way up.
nono, complicated effects are supposed to be hardsubed in most cases. Usually. At least until real fast CPUs are out there. I didn't make that sample to show the power of softsubs. Maybe I would have hardsubbed it if the very newest vsfilter binary had been available. I softsubbed it as an external .ssf file just because that was the only way for me to test .ssf now.

Liisachan

15th April 2006, 03:10

valid build is mplayerc2006.04.11.2kxp.7z, not mplayerc2006.04.13.2kxp.7z
mplayerc2006.04.13.2kxp.7z crashes on chapters
mplayerc.rev585.2kxp.7z doesn't display russian chapters

Confirmed.

1. mplayerc2006.04.11 and before (tested .08 .04 .03) handle chap texts according to the System Language (not User Language) of Windows, i.e. the default language for non-Unicode app.

2. rev585 and 587 handle chap texts as ASCII (probably Win Latin), ignoring the System Language. I happen to have Gabest's own build dated 2006-04-11, and its behavior is the same with the behavior of celtic_druid builds. So celtic_druid is not responsible for it.

3. None can handle Unicode. UTF-8, with or without BOM, will be handled as ANSI. UTF-16 text will be ignored (as celtic_druid reported) probably because it looks invalid when interpreted as ANSI because of a lot of \0 etc.

4. I think none of the above behaviors are ISO-compliant (or maybe there are no standards about chapters at all); MPC's behavior is probably just to make Nero's chapters happy.

EDIT:
Note that I'm talking about chapters in mp4. Chapters in .mkv or in .dsm are Unicode-enabled, i.e. not only can you put Russian texts there but also you could even mix Russian and French and Chinese in one chapter list.
.mp4 is the only bad one here. Currently Unicode chaps don't work in mp4. English texts (ASCII 0x00-0x80) would be relatively safe, because they are compatible with UTF-8, but that is not guaranteed (if UTF-16 is officially chosen, even English texts as old ASCII would be foobared). We saw the exactly same kind of confusion about chapters charset in OggDS 0994 0995 and 0996.

Haali

15th April 2006, 09:44

The chapters in mp4 are invented by Nero and they are not unicode. Nero uses windows default ansi codepage for them. I hope this clarifies the confusion.

dimzon

15th April 2006, 12:29

The chapters in mp4 are invented by Nero and they are not unicode. Nero uses windows default ansi codepage for them. I hope this clarifies the confusion.
So please revert MPC to
1. mplayerc2006.04.11 and before (tested .08 .04 .03) handle chap texts according to the System Language (not User Language) of Windows, i.e. the default language for non-Unicode app.

clsid

15th April 2006, 12:45

@celtic_druid
Make sure that subpic buffering is disabled:
View | Options | Subtitles | Number of subpic... = 0

A fast CPU is needed, too.
I would be handy if MPC (and VSFilter) would be able to auto-detect if the subtitles are 'dynamic' like in your SSF example or have karaoke style. And if so, temporarily disable subpic buffering.

I think most people prefer the buffering to be enabled for regular subs. Having to change the setting each time for a 'dynamic' sub would be pretty annoying. Now these type of subs are quite rare, but perhaps SSF will become populair :D

Liisachan

15th April 2006, 13:29

Well, I know what you mean, tho I'm not sure if that is technically easy.

SSF is not only for softsubbing. Rather, I guess it will be used more often for hardsubbing via textsub in VSFilter thru .avs. Actually there is no way to softsub with SSF atm unless you use an external .ssf file. Perhaps Matroska will eventually support it as S_TEXT/SSF, but still it won't play on Linux unless someone writes a patch for SSF, and that should be a very hard work.

videomixer9

15th April 2006, 14:04

mp4 is the worst format i can think of anyways besides avi, beginning with the fact that it is just a stripped down mov. Besides too many non-real-standard extensions are made for it. Better use Matroska.

SeeMoreDigital

15th April 2006, 14:41

mp4 is the worst format i can think of anyways besides avi, beginning with the fact that it is just a stripped down mov. Hmmm!

When somebody comes out with statements as sweeping as this, they've obviously never seen or heard about the MPEG-4 ISO/IEE 14496 specifications :scared:

Cheers

videomixer9

15th April 2006, 15:44

So, doesn't change the fact it is just some stripped down mov and sucks. There are lots of ISO standards that aren't really worth being a standard. Even stuff like WMV is a standard, doesn't mean it's good. The MPEG guys are not reachable really unlike the Matroska folks, so why bother with it if not for lousy industrie that is unflexible and fixes stuff by telling people bugs are features or with ad campaigns.

foxyshadis

15th April 2006, 16:02

The whole point of mp4 is to restrict the streams to only a few formats. For PCs it's lame unless you only use those formats, but it's pretty vital for budget standalones. When you support mkv you have the inevitable support headaches of your customers trying to play wmv or rmvb w/ mpc or monkey's audio, and complaining when it doesn't work. (This already happens with avi, most commonly divx3, packed bitstream, and wmv avi.) Mov is even worse, with the dozens of formats in common use. When you restrict mkv to only what's supported by the chipset, you end up with mp4 in another skin, so what's even the point? Only if the player has extra support is mkv useful.

Everything the mpeg guys do is centered around standalones, portables, and media hardware. PCs are basically their last consideration, and it shows, so you have to kind of put it in that perspective.

videomixer9

15th April 2006, 16:15

Well it may be reasonable for that, but currently it looks like too many enhance stuff with propiertary extras not in the standards and then people wonder if they cannot use them or use them properly.

bond

18th April 2006, 18:22

nero was so idiotic using ansi...
using ansi means that the chapters will not display fine on a pc using a different character set by default as the pc of the one who created the chapters...
(same goes for "nero hardware players" in different countries of course...)

i wonder whether we shouldnt simply send nero to hell with their ansi and all use utf-8?

SeeMoreDigital

18th April 2006, 18:31

i wonder whether we shouldnt simply send nero to hell with their ansi and all use utf-8?I most definitely agree you here Bond ;)

EDIT 1: While we are at it, how about we all stop using Nero's VOBsub support and go for TTXT based text instead?

EDIT 2: That said, I don't think Media Player Classic supports "external" TTXT text files... only "internal"

Cheers

Liisachan

19th April 2006, 11:59

celtic_druid's new binary:
mplayerc.rev592.2kxp.7z (http://ffdshow.faireal.net/mirror/Media%20Player%20Classic/mplayerc.rev592.2kxp.7z)

Revision 588
SSF: Path Animation updated

Revision 589
SSF: Rasterizer: code cleaned

Revision 590
SSF: Rasterizer & Renderer updated

Revision 591
Ogg: Better support for illiminable's filters for Ogg Vorbis, Speex, Theora and FLAC. The merits of those filters are stored in valid but unusual places in the registry. (Apparently illiminable is going to change his code too.)

MpegSplitter: Updated. CMpegSplitterOutputPin::m_fHasAccessUnitDelimiters

Revision 592
Interface: Title Bar Text Style
Output: VMR7 Windowed/Renderless are not grayed out on Windows 2000, if CLSID_VideoMixingRenderer is registered. That might happen on Windows 2000 SP4.
FLVSplitter: Supports VideoTag CodecID 4
<-- uh, could it be that Gabest is going to use that libvp62 (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=815193#post815193)?

dimzon

19th April 2006, 12:03

Any plans to support MP4 Menu/Autoring

Liisachan

19th April 2006, 12:27

celtic_druid's new binary:
Output: VMR7 Windowed/Renderless are not grayed out on Windows 2000, if CLSID_VideoMixingRenderer is registered. That might happen on Windows 2000 SP4.
This is very interesting. Subs work on Windows 2000 SP4 in VMR-7 Renderless too.

This question was already asked in the prev MPC thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=550993#post550993) but no one understood that at that time. Me neither...

Unbreakable

19th April 2006, 16:24

Lately, I have a strange problem with MPC... When playing DVDs, subtitles don't work anymore and sometimes the program crashes when I try to activate them.
Everyhing was fine a few days ago... Recently I installed soft & drivers for a new TV-Tuner, but I doubt it has something to do with this.

What could be the cause and what can I do to fix this problem? Thanks.