Hybrid: Input -> x264/x265/Xvid/VP8/VP9

[Music Fan]

I don't have this message when I call ffmpeg and not anymore when opening Hybrid, I see directly this message : "Hybrid Encoder GUI met a problem and has to close" (I translate from french).

And as I said yesterday, I wonder if the problem could not come from mp4box, because in my Hybrid folder (not in C: but in the partition where I put all downloaded programs), I have a sub folder including mp4box.exe and some dll : js32.dll, libgpac.dll, mfc90.dll, msvcr90.dll.
I put these files in this folder on 30 march 2013, I guess I needed them to solve a problem.

[Music Fan]

Look at our discussion of the 30 march ;
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=153035&page=73
I'm reading it, hoping to find a solution.

[Selur]

Okay, that problem is not related to ffmpeg then.
If mp4box is the culprit should be easy to investigate: call it from the terminal :)
Back then installing " Microsoft Visual C++ 2008 SP1 Redistributable Package (x86)" solved the problem for you. :)
I didn't change anything dlls that come with Hybrid since I don't know which dlls solved the problem for you.

[Music Fan]

If mp4box is the culprit should be easy to investigate: call it from the terminal :)
I tried, and as with ffmpg, I see the help of the program, no bug.

Back then installing " Microsoft Visual C++ 2008 SP1 Redistributable Package (x86)" solved the problem for you. :)
That was a few months ago, on my other pc, but now it didn't help.
I also installed Visual C++ 2012 and SP3, does not help.

[Selur]

send you a pm with a Hybrid version which should open a terminal window which should show what Hybrid is doing,...

[Music Fan]

About x264 settings ; I chose 4 reference frames but the file I encoded has only 3 reference frames according to MediaInfo.
With an older Hybrid version (and thus older x264), I had well 4 reference frames according to MediaInfo.

[Selur]

Ne debugOutput -> no clue :)
Need to see the decoding call to know if Hybrid made a mistake.
Tried here, and for me '--ref' get's properly set.

[Music Fan]

I don't find the debugOutput option.
Do I have to encode again or I can get a debugOutput file just opening a video file ?

[Selur]

I don't find the debugOutput option.
"Config->Internals->Create debug file, level ..."
Do I have to encode again or I can get a debugOutput file just opening a video file ?
What you can do is analyse the output file with MediaInfo , it should contain the encoding settings, if the encoding settings show ref=4 and MediaInfo report the number of references as 3 something is off with MediaInfo.
Otherwise <ou would need to do it again, since DebugOutput need to be created properly to make any sense, otherwise I can't even hope to replace the problem. :)

[Music Fan]

What you can do is analyse the output file with MediaInfo , it should contain the encoding settings, if the encoding settings show ref=4 and MediaInfo report the number of references as 3 something is off with MediaInfo
You're right, there are well 4 ref in encoding settings.
But with the same MediaInfo's version, my previous encoding has well 4 ref (according to MediaInfo's main window).:confused:

With another mkv, the encoding settings are not shown.:confused:

[Selur]

MediaInfo only reads some headers, so it is not always right,... :)

[Music Fan]

And how to be sure it's not wrong about encoding settings (which look ok for my file but that could be wrong for other files) ?

[Selur]

There is no other way then using a H.264 analyzer to be totally sure. The encoding settings are just some header info that can be changed easily.
The MediaInfo analysis (= reading first few headers and some container data) can be wrong (missing something). :)
Normally for x264 files I would stick with the encoding settings.

[Music Fan]

Ok, noted.

About vpxenc.exe, will you replace it by the 2012 version (to avoid bug on XP) in the next rev or I keep it preciously and replace it each time I re-install Hybrid ?

[Selur]

not sure atm. will first try to figure out if this is a general problem or if there can be winxp capable build of vpxenc

So off for the day. Have to play some 'Shadowrun Returns' :)

[Music Fan]

That was a big "Hybrid" day for me too, Im' tired of my pc now, have a good play :)

[Music Fan]

Hi Selur,
I have a strange problem with my encoding on an Oppo player : the video pixelates a lot in MKV but is played without problem when put in AVCHD.
I asked to Oppo what could be the reason of this problem and what were the correct settings to ensure MKV compatibility but they just answered that 10 bit was not supported and that the decoder didn't work the same way with AVCHD than with files.
I searched in Hybrid's tab and didn't found 10 bit setting.
Anyway, I guess the player wouldn't play video in AVCHD either if it was in 10 bit so my problem has probably nothing to do with that and is in my opinion due to b-frames settings, openGOP or something like that.
Do you have an idea of what makes pixelate my player ?
Bye ;)

[Selur]

I searched in Hybrid's tab and didn't found 10 bit setting.
10bit calculation precision is only available if the avc Profile is High10 or above and "x264->Misc->Main->Restrictions->Calculation precision" is set to "10-bit" (also check that the "output color space" is i420)

Do you have an idea of what makes pixelate my player ?
Could be a ton of settings, since:
a. Oppo is a brand not a player specification.
b. I have no clue what your current settings look like and if you aside from changing the container also changed other settings
c. I don't know what settings you are using atm. (for AVCHD and/or mkv)
-> the lack of details makes it a guessing game :D

So let's do some guessing,..

Assuming it's a Blu-ray compatible player, I would:
1st make sure "x264->Main->Restriction Settings->Hardware" is enabled and set to "Blu-ray/AVCHD", even if you are not creating a Blu-ray/AVCHD.
2nd assuming the player still has problems I would make sure that:
a. openGOP is disabled
if that doesn't help
b. the output content is progressive
if that doesn't help
c. weighted P-frame prediction is disabled
if that doesn't help
d. B-pyramid is disabled
if that doesn't help
e. B-frames is disabled

Cu Selur

[Music Fan]

Thanks, I will make some tests and let you know what I did and if it works;)

[Music Fan]

I made some tests and until now all videos pixelate (progressive content).:confused:
The Calculation precision is well in 8 bit and output color space is i420.
My reference profile is done for AVCHD ; profile on high 4.1, Restriction Settings->Hardware is enabled and set to Blu-ray/AVCHD, VBV medium limit is set to BD/dvd 5/9, openGOP is disabled, reference frames is set to 4, max number consec b-frames is set to 3, b-pyramid on strict, bitrate on 16300.
Works perfectly on my Oppo when in AVCHD structure.

From this profile, I changed or removed main settings one by one *, I made 6 different encodings (the 6th including all changes, the 5th 5 changes ....) and all 6 pixelate.:confused:
* : 2 consec b-frames instead of 3, 2 reference frames instead of 4, weighted P-frame prediction disabled, B-pyramid disabled, mixed references disabled, weighted references disabled (but with max number consec b-frames still set on 2), I still have to test max number consec b-frames set on 0.

[Music Fan]

I set max number consec b-frames on 0, put bitrate on 9300, buffer size and max fillrate on 18000 instead of 24000, and it still pixelates :o
Actually, encodings I made 2 or 3 years ago with MeGUI have the same problem on this Oppo, while videos I found on websites (clips on youtube for example) have no problem.:confused:

[Selur]

If the YouTube clips work fine analyse these clips to figure out which feature they are not using. :)

[Music Fan]

That's what I began to do and some of them have same characteristics than some of my encodings, very strange.
I also unchecked send pic_struct, checked SPS/PPS and set it on 1, still pixelates.:(

Couldn't it be linked to the way it is encapsulated in MKV ?
What changes between mkv and m2ts ? Because as I said, all encodings I made are played when on AVCHD (thus in m2ts container) but pixelate when in MKV. But this player Oppo BDP-83 can't play ts or m2ts files, except when in AVCHD structure, it only plays MKV files, so I can't compare directly mkv and m2ts, otherwise I would know if the container was the culprit.

[Selur]

Couldn't it be linked to the way it is encapsulated in MKV ?
That you get pixelation, I highly doubt it, normally the player can open the container or not.

I asked to Oppo what could be the reason of this problem and what were the correct settings to ensure MKV compatibility but they just answered that 10 bit was not supported and that the decoder didn't work the same way with AVCHD than with files.
-> seems like there decoder works differently depending on the content (LOL)
Here (http://www.avsforum.com/t/1124287/official-oppo-bdp-83-owners-thread-technical-talk-only/37980) it sounds like, they are restricting the properly supported resolution on mkv content.

http://wiki.oppodigital.com/index.php?title=BDP-83_Media_Files_FAQ -> make sure you are not using Level 5.1 or above.

Improvement to MKV compatibility. Some MKV files do not play or play with severe video artifacts when using previous firmware. This version improves the playback of such files.
Source: http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83/bdp-83-firmware-50-0323b.aspx
-> you might want to update your firmware:D

[Music Fan]

Thanks for your help.

That you get pixelation, I highly doubt it, normally the player can open the container or not.
Actually I meant a stream problem, something about H264, not mkv (because all files I found in flv or mp4 which I put in MKV work).

Here (http://www.avsforum.com/t/1124287/official-oppo-bdp-83-owners-thread-technical-talk-only/37980) it sounds like, they are restricting the properly supported resolution on mkv content.
In which message did you see this ?
Anwyay Oppo said to me that the decoder didn't work the same way with AVCHD that with files.

make sure you are not using Level 5.1 or above.
Of course, all my videos are in 4.1 or less.

Source: http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83/bdp-83-firmware-50-0323b.aspx
-> you might want to update your firmware:D
Interesting, I didn't know this beta firmware, mine is BDP83-59-0117.
But my loader version look more recent (BT0500 instead of BT0390) and Sub Version is the same.

[Music Fan]

Actually my firmware is much more recent so that won't help:o

[Selur]

Do SD encodes work fine ? (read in some other forum, that people only seem to have problems with HD encodes)

[Music Fan]

Will have to test that, I believe I only made HD encodings.

[Music Fan]

Actually 1080p files I found on the web (movie trailers and clips) are played without problems, only my encodings pixelate :mad:
But as I said, I have the same problem with encodings I made with MeGUI.:confused:

[DJ-1]

Hi., at the moment I have some DVD that I need to encode.
The audio is Dolby Digital ac3 2 channel.

I have ripped the episode to hdd and when imported via 'DVD mode', or 'file mode'....Hybrid detects no audio streams.

If I process it through DVD shrink, re-author, & trim (smallest amount I can) approx 11 frames off of start of the video.
Then... Hybrid detects audio perfectly fine.

How does Hybrid detect audio of input files? Does it scan the 1st few frames?

Is there a way (besides trimming the start off of the input files) in the settings to allow for an audio stream that doesn't' kick-in' immediately with the videos?

Thanks.

[Selur]

I have ripped the episode to hdd..
If you didn't create a 1:1 copy and the tool you used for ripping doesn't properly adjust the .ifo file mplayer might detect all stream properly.
-> a debug output should show where the problem lies

How does Hybrid detect audio of input files? Does it scan the 1st few frames?
No, Hybrid relies on mplayer&MediaInfo, only if both report the stream properly it will be used. (Otherwise Hybrid assumes the output is broken one way or the other.)

Is there a way (besides trimming the start off of the input files) in the settings to allow for an audio stream that doesn't' kick-in' immediately with the videos?
If the audio doesn't start with the video one uses a delay, if the headers do not show a specific stream or either mplayer or MediaInfo doesn't report it, the stream will be ignored.

Cu Selur

[DJ-1]

Hmmm ok, what I did was... DVD to hdd using latest version of DVD decrypted.

Then use DVD shrink to produce individual DVD sets (as gonna be doing deinterlace with avi synth).
(also tell DVD shrink not to '1gb split' the . Vob files just incase file mode is ever needed on them.)

I'll try directly from DVD disc later, and from the DVD decrypter output...

If I still get an issue I'll get a debug ready.
Curios, I use this DVD decrypter & DVD shrink method of ripping all sorts of other DVDs with same audio type, I wonder why it specifically doesn't like this...

Cheers.

Sent from my HTC One using tapatalk

[Selur]

I wonder why it specifically doesn't like this...
look into the debug output :)

[DJ-1]

What level debug, I always forget if the higher number debug gives more info, or vice versa :-)

Sent from my HTC One using tapatalk

[Selur]

read the tool-tip, so see stuff from the analysis level 1 should be fine
(higher level -> more infos)

[DJ-1]

ok, so i updated the latest Hybrid (didn`t notice there was a new 1 )

ALL I DID:
open Hybrid GUI, no global profile applied, all standard.
enable debug out,
`dvd input`....selected source and let it anylise input.


created a Level 1 debug of:
Direct from Dvd Disc ... https://www.dropbox.com/s/di50hj04dcbt17n/HybridDebugOutput.txt

from Dvd Decrypter Output ... https://www.dropbox.com/s/xc7swro3bx6vjf9/HybridDebugOutput.txt

trimmed output... https://www.dropbox.com/s/hkm4x5hqgvr3d8r/HybridDebugOutput.txt




result

direct from DVD + output file of Dvd Decrypter result in non-detection of audio.
whereas the 11 frames (mimimum i could trim with shrink) detects ok in Hybrid.

I`m tryng to have a look through debug as suggested also, but lot of info...

Cheers.

[Selur]

Direct from Dvd Disc
unless the DVD does not have any copy protection this is a bad idea
looking at the debug output for each title the audio is removed since mplayer reported:
MPEG: No audio stream found
Audio: no sound
from Dvd Decrypter Output .
same as above
-> from my point of view the content you feed Hybrid is broken, not sure about DVD Copy Protection and how good DVD Decrypter (which hasn't been updated for 8+ years afaik) is nowadays.
My guess is that the DVD you handle has some additional 'protection' like broken headers or so, which are not fixed by the Ripper and cause problems for mplayer.
So I would probably look into the Decrypting forum section and check out what folks are using nowadays.

Cu Selur

[DJ-1]

hmmm ok, very old tv show.... I`ll have a look around in the dycryption section

just remembered, i have a newish copy of AnyDVD-HD (Legit also, to get the updates for newer discs), I`ll give it a try with that.

cheers.

[Music Fan]

So I would probably look into the Decrypting forum section and check out what folks are using nowadays.
AnyDvd and DVDFab HD Decrypter are good I believe.

[Selur]

Frankly no clue, last time I ripped something I used a really old MakeMKV version. :P

[Music Fan]

Actually 1080p files I found on the web (movie trailers and clips) are played without problems, only my encodings pixelate :mad:
But as I said, I have the same problem with encodings I made with MeGUI.:confused:
I found the culprit ! :)
That's the last thing I thought to change as it seems crazy ;
I unticked "hardware" (which was set on Blu-ray/AVCHD) in restriction settings, and now it's ok in MKV on the BDP-83.:)
I also tried with openGOP ticked and that's OK too.

Here are the changes when hardware is ticked compared to when unticked ;
--bluray-compat --b-pyramid strict --lookahead-threads 1 --slices 4 --mvrange 511
I don't believe --b-pyramid strict is the problem because yesterday I removed completely b-frames (max number ... set on 0) thus b-pyramid was not in the command line anymore and it pixelated anyway.
Here is the command line (pass 1) of one of the encodings I made which pixelated ;
x264 --preset faster --pass 1 --slow-firstpass --bitrate 16300 --profile high --level 4.1 --bluray-compat
--keyint 24 --bframes 0 --qcomp 0.5 --slices 4 --partitions i4x4,p8x8,b8x8 --no-fast-pskip --mvrange 511
--subme 5 --trellis 0 --aq-mode 0 --pic-struct --thread-input --qpfile GENERATED_QP_FILE --stats

Here is a command that works (file don't pixelate) ;
x264 --pass 1 --slow-firstpass --bitrate 16300 --profile high --level 4.1 --ref 4 --keyint 24 --qcomp 0.5
--partitions i4x4,p8x8,b8x8 --no-fast-pskip --subme 5 --trellis 0 --weightp 1 --aq-mode 0 --pic-struct
--thread-input --qpfile GENERATED_QP_FILE --stats
Thus I guess the precise culprit is --bluray-compat.
What is the exact effect of --bluray-compat ?
Otherwise the culprit could be --lookahead-threads 1, --slices 4 or --mvrange 511.

And why does --b-pyramid disappear in this last command line while it's not disabled but set on normal ?
Same question for consecutive b-frames which is set on 3 and not in the command. Because that's default setting maybe ?

[DJ-1]

ok, just thought I`d post anyhow, Ripped disc with AnyDVD (pretty up-to-date verson).....same

none found :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ilfwg31lwxr5v6e/HybridDebugOutput.txt

cheers.
gonna go in the decrypting section now and have a look.

strange that the trimmed output is fine though...

[Selur]

What is the exact effect of --bluray-compat ?
--bluray-compat

enables a bunch of 'Blu-ray hacks':
- min-CR + level 4.1 hack
- Special b-pyramid SEI
- B-frames cannot reference frames outside their minigop
- Open-GOP keyframe interval hack
renders '--open-gop' parameters obsolete:
- now: --bluray-compat + --open-gop <> old version: --open-gop bluray
- now: --open-gop without --bluray-compat <> old version: --open-gop cbrHD
enforces:
- aud=1
restricts:
- nalhrd>=vbr
- bframes to: 3 or less
- bpyramid to: strict or none
- max references to: 6 or less
- weightp to: 1 or 0


If you do 2pass encoding, compare the 2nd and not the 1st pass settings unless you disabled 'Fast 1st pass', otherwise:
x264 will automatically restrict the settings to:
--no-8x8dct --me dia --partitions none --ref 1 --subme {2 if >2 else unchanged} --trellis 0 --fast-pskip

And why does --b-pyramid disappear in this last command line while it's not disabled but set on normal ?
because '--b-pyramid normal' is the default value and 'x264->Misc->Adjustments->Minimize command line' is enabled.

----

My guess is that your player only supports sliced encoding if the stream is inside a m2ts container.
(sliced encoding is needed for Blu-ray compatibility)


Cu Selur

[Music Fan]

Thanks, I edited my previous post several times before to see you answer, have a look please ;)

[Selur]

Because that's default setting maybe ?
yes.

Like I wrote I guess that the sliced encoding it the problem with your player. (-> at least now I'm warned and know that I will never buy a player from oppo :))

[Music Fan]

If you do 2pass encoding, compare the 2nd and not the 1st pass settings unless you disabled 'Fast 1st pass', otherwise:
x264 will automatically restrict the settings to:
--no-8x8dct --me dia --partitions none --ref 1 --subme {2 if >2 else unchanged} --trellis 0 --fast-pskip
I compared both and they were the same.

My guess is that your player only supports sliced encoding if the stream is inside a m2ts container.
(sliced encoding is needed for Blu-ray compatibility)
What means exactly "sliced encoding" ?

[Music Fan]

now I'm warned and know that I will never buy a player from oppo :))
They are the best players for many reasons (this problem is maybe one of their rare defaults), and I don't believe this problem happens on new models.

[Selur]

What means exactly "sliced encoding" ?
read this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=148826)
side note: I just realized, sliced encoding is only mandatory for level 4.1 and not level 4.0.
(will adjust Hybrid accordingly in a few days)

[Selur]

"(will adjust Hybrid accordingly in a few days) "
-> nothing to do, Hybrid already allows to disable 'Multi-slice' if level 4.0 is used instead of level 4.1 :) (totally forgot about that)

[Music Fan]

read this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=148826)

Thanks, actually the answer is in the middle of the page ;
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1313576#post1313576

With "Slices" they mean that each frame should consist of at least 4 slices (parts), that can be decoded/processed independently.
If I understand well, the culprits are --bluray-compat and --slices 4
and not --b-pyramid strict, --lookahead-threads 1 and --mvrange 511 ?