Announcing DVDSubEdit Version 1.51

[President]

President, go to the home page, and update to version 1.322.
Edit your ini file and at the bottom add the line:
NoSize=1
The app should now start just fine, but it won't remember the last size/position you used. This should fix your problem for now...
Jeanl
Thank you very much. I don't extremely needed this app now (but I'll download update:-) ). I don't hurry you by no means. I just want to help you to improve a very good soft for all users. Thank's once more for fast response in any case.
*****************************
I downloaded update. All is Ok. Problem was killed:-).

[kumi]

jeanl:

Would it be possible to add an extra option called "All DCSQTs" to the dropdown DCSQT chooser? I find myself with a track where some of the SPUs have up to 17 DCSQT commands :scared: If I want to change a value globally, like color, I have to run through the whole color-picker thing for each DCSQT, as it is right now.

[jeanl]

Kumi, you're not the first one to mention/ask for that... I'll look into it. It might be a bit more complicated than it looks but I'll see... What I can probably include is an option, in the "Apply to all" dialog, to apply to all DCSQTs. Would that be OK?
jeanl

[kumi]

Absolutely, that would work just as well. Thanks for considering it :o)

[Skiro]

Is there possible to change text of selected subtitle?
I can erase but i can't change text.

[jeanl]

kumi, I'm looking into it, but I'll need some time.
Skiro. No, not possible, very very very hard!
jeanl

[Mtz]

Skiro. No, not possible, very very very hard!
jeanl
But if you'll make this someday, you'll "kill" many guides about "adding subtitle to a DVD". Also I wrote 2 guides about that in my native language. But no problem, I'll write another one for DVDSubEdit in my language. In english I'm sure that CoNS will write one. ;) I'm sure many eyes are watching you regarding this when you are releasing new versions of the program.
:thanks:

enjoy,
Mtz

[jeanl]

Mtz, really I don't know how to do this well.
One way would be to go through subpics and find templates of each letter (assuming you can really cut a letter out from its neighbors, which usually you can't in a clean way) then cut/paste them anywhere you like... But this would be quite tricky, and would require there being subpics already in your DVD, so not good for adding subpics from scratch.
Besides, what people usually want to do is add another stream, which means finding space in the VOB for the new subpic packs, then muxing them in. That's even worse than retiming (where the overall size of the VOB does not change) because you're trying to add stuff here...
Given that there are some great tools (and guides) for doing it, I don't see the point of trying to implement that...
Jeanl

[Skiro]

I think that, if is it possibility to change subtitle whitch is already in VOB's.
Now we can only erase text in existing subtitle, not (that it'll be very useful) change letters in existing subtitle:D

[jeanl]

Kumi, here's a quick update of DVDSubEdit
http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEdit1.323.zip
which implements the "select all DCSQT" feature. Just use the drop-down list to select all DCSQT. The slider and color adjustments will then be applied to all DCSQTs that have a color/contrast command. Apply to all will also apply to all DCSQTs if the corresponding checkbox is selected in the Apply to all panel...
Let me know if this does not work.
jeanl

[Mtz]

Hmm... I found some timming bugs in the output file when using a SUP file send to me by a friend which wanted some help.

91
00:08:03,0 --> 00:08:06,709 <<< bug

....

97
00:08:26,40 --> 00:08:27,359 <<< bug

98
00:08:29,0 --> 00:08:33,437 <<< bug

Another strange thing:

102
00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:52,437
That's my baby boy.
<<< bug ?
103
00:00:00,531 --> 00:00:03,967
-Where were you at my game, sis?
-Oh, l had to study for that history test.

enjoy,
Mtz

[jeanl]

Mtz, how do you know the timings are not correct? Or do you mean the 100th of a second should always be displayed with 3 digits? I'm not following you...
Jeanl

[kumi]

Thanks, jeanl! I will test your new DCSQT functions this weekend.

[CoNS]

@jeanl: I agree with Mtz that the milliseconds at the end of the time codes always should be displayed with three digits... (However, I'm not sure if it's just cosmetic, or if it's against the specs for the .srt file format, causing problems when other apps are reading the file?)

Wrt subtitle lines #102 and #103 in Mtz' example I think he's trying to show you that the time codes are not continous. They jump from the 9th minute in the movie (subtitle line #102) to the first minute (#103)...

[mpucoder]

That's probably a new vob. Seems we're discussing timing in two places.

[jeanl]

Yes, it looks like the PTS got reset and the output was not properly adjusted. I'll have to look into that...
Thanks CoNS, I had completely missed the point!
Jeanl

[mpucoder]

Since the sup came from another program there isn't much you can do as you don't know the exact duration of the first vob. Maybe a best guess (a little after the last spu) and then a manual adjustment?

[Mtz]

it's against the specs for the .srt file format...

Yes! Must to be 3 digits always.

@mpucoder, also I read the "thread about timmings" but in that thread is a specific problem encountered by some user. I posted my fingings here because them are related to DVDSubEdit and I want to help jeanl. The SUP file was extracted with DVDSubEdit, previous version before this.

enjoy,
Mtz

[mpucoder]

NP, it was just an observation (and I should have used a smiley - can we still call them smilies or has that been copyrighted and trademarked? Emoticons - oops, patented). The other thread is talking about a multitude of programs with timing problems, and I hope by talking about it in that forum that these programs will get fixed.
Many readers of this thread are probably unaware of that discussion, but can use this information.

As for the sup being created by DVDSubEdit, yeah, jeanl can fix that. But there are other programs doing the same thing, so importing a sup with clock reset will be around for a long time.

[CoNS]

@mpucoder: Yeah, we're kinda in a grey zone between the subtitle section and the IFO/VOB Editors section... *smile* (that's not copyrighted, is it?!!)

(For users that didn't already find it: Here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=110212) is the other thread about PTS calculation and time codes, as mentioned by mpucoder)

Mtz, do you remember which version of DVDSubEdit you used for saving the .SUP file? It's new to me that there should be a PTS/clock reset bug like this in DVDSubEdit when extracting .SUPs... Does the same thing occur if you open the same movie and save a .SUP with the latest version of DVDSubEdit?

I wonder what other programs that are capable of extracting .SUP files (PgcDemux, VobEdit, DVD Decrypter?, SubRip etc.) have this PTS/clock reset bug, too?!

[Mtz]

The used version was: 1.322. As I told in some previous post the SUP file was extracted by some friend with 1.322. I cannot extract another the SUP because the DVD is not mine and I don't have it.

enjoy,
Mtz

[mpucoder]

I just tried VobEdit 0.6 and it did not account for clock reset. PgcDemux, on the other hand, does. I believe PgcDemux was the first to get this right (the version I had handy was an old 1.2.0.4).

[jeanl]

Yes, jsoto alerted me to the reset problem, but I didn't implement it the right way at the time (saving a .sup was not high on my list at the time), so I'm not surprised that pgcdemux does it right. I will have to fix that in DVDSubEdit. I'll let you know when that's done...
Thanks guys.
Jeanl

[jeanl]

Guys, I posted a quick update of DVDSubEdit to fix the discontinuous PTS problem (and also the srt display problem)
http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEdit1.324.zip

Mtz, can you check whether this fixes your discontinuity problem?
Jeanl

[Mtz]

OK, first I will say what I did (used another DVD (NTSC 29.970) than the one used in my previous report):


I. Used PGCDemux to extract all streams, including one big VOB file (used to check the subtitles in Subtitles Workshop). Sup file named EnSubPGCDemux.sup. Run OCR and saved as: EnSubPGCDemux.srt.


II. Used DVDSubEdit to extract the subpictures. Sup file named EnSubDVDSubEdit.sup Run OCR and saved as: EnSubDVDSubEdit.srt.


III. Used SubRip to OCR to srt file. Srt file named EnSubRip.srt


Tests:

1. Compared the output between EnSubPGCDemux.sup and EnSubDVDSubEdit.sup in hex and found some differences. The differences are regarding to timing, more exactly, the programs used different delays applied to all subtitles with a constant value. PGCDemux reported Delay=0. This was checked later in the srt outputs


2. Compared the EnSubPGCDemux.srt and EnSubDVDSubEdit.srt in notepad and Subtitles Workshop and I found a delay:

EnSubPGCDemux.srt
1
00:00:58,799 --> 00:01:01,064

2
00:01:01,233 --> 00:01:03,929
...
1552
01:36:31,300 --> 01:36:34,531

1553
01:36:36,133 --> 01:36:38,033


EnSubDVDSubEdit.srt
1
00:00:59,299 --> 00:01:01,564

2
00:01:01,733 --> 00:01:04,429
...
1552
01:36:31,800 --> 01:36:35,031

1553
01:36:36,633 --> 01:36:38,533

From the line 1553: 36,633 - 36,133 = + 500 milliseconds between EnSubDVDSubEdit.srt and EnSubPGCDemux.srt. The difference is so small, so I can't tell which is the correct delay.


3. Testing the SRT files in Subtitles Workshop and using the big VOB with all movie. Only EnSubDVDSubEdit.srt and EnSubRip.srt tested because no needing the EnSubPGCDemux.srt because of the small constant delay.
a.) This is a screenshot from EnSubDVDSubEdit.srt. The delay is negative, progressive and bigger.
http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/5738/ensubdvdsubedit4cp.th.jpg (http://img250.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ensubdvdsubedit4cp.jpg)

b.) This is a screenshot from EnSubRip.srt. As you can see the subtitle line is displayed correct.
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4848/ensubrip3wn.th.jpg (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ensubrip3wn.jpg)


4. Comparing the last timing (approx.) betweens srt files:
EnSubDVDSubEdit.srt
1553
01:36:36,633 --> 01:36:38,533 <<< negative delay

EnSubPGCDemux.srt
1553
01:36:36,133 --> 01:36:38,033 <<< negative delay

EnSubRip.srt
1553
01:36:42,070 --> 01:36:44,038 <<< seems to be correct.


5. Comparing the last timings in Subtitles Creator betweens SUP files:

EnSubDVDSubEdit.sup

http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/444/endvdsubeditsubtitlecreator9ld.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

EnSubPGCDemux.sup

http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/3484/enpgcdemuxsubtitlecreator1yc.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

EnSubRip.srt

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/79/subrip6cr.jpg (http://imageshack.us) (Screenshot from Subtitles Workhsop)

The closest values seems to be between PGCDemux and SubRip.


Concusion: I thing the SUP files are extracted correctly by DVDSubEdit (excluding the delay, maybe), but the OCR to srt timing seems to be not correct because of the proggresive negative delay.

I know CoNS have some DVDs for testing. I hope he can help too.

enjoy,
Mtz

[jeanl]

Mtz, could you post the .sup file on yousendit.com? They're not big I guess. This would allow me to make sense of all this. It is possible that PGCDemux and DVDSubEdit don't get the same delay: DVDSubEdit removes the PTS of the first navpack it finds in the VOB file. I suspect that PGCDemux subtract the PTS of the first navpack in the PGC you're demuxing. This might be different if there's another PGC before the one you demuxed.

In any case, what makes you say that SubRip gets the right value? Visual inspection?
jeanl

[Mtz]

In any case, what makes you say that SubRip gets the right value? Visual inspection?
jeanl
Visual inspection. But as you can see in the example screenshots from SubtitesCreator, the SUP timings seems to be OK.
The files are uploaded here. (http://rapidshare.de/files/19040291/TestSubs_D9_2.rar.html)

enjoy,
Mtz

[jeanl]

Thanks Mtz... May I suggest that you use yousendit.com rather than rapidshare? It's a real pain to download anything from there (finding where to click, waiting a while while they do their pitch etc etc)...
I'll take a look at the files...
Jeanl

[jeanl]

I'm really puzzled here... The DVDSubEdit .sup file has a first spu at PTS 5297292 (58.80s) and the PGCDemux .sup has it at PTS 5342337 (59.30s)! I'm not sure how that came to be! To really figure it out, I would need a bit of the VOB file as well so I can see where the difference comes from. I could see how DVDSubEdit would show a PTS that's later than PGCDemux, but not smaller...
??
jeanl

[Mtz]

Files sent. Check your mail and your PM.

enjoy,
Mtz

[jeanl]

Thanks Mtz
OK now this makes sense.
- In the VOB, there's a first tiny VOBU 1/1 starting at PTS 45045 and ending at 90090. This cell isn't referenced in the movie PGC.
- This is followed by the normal cell 2/1 which starts at PTS 21021 (there's a clock reset here).
- The first subpic of the english stream has a raw PTS of 5318313 (LBA 10876).
- Because DVDSubEdit does not extract based on the PGC, it does not know VCID 1/1 shouldn't be taken into account. As a result, it computes the adjusted PTS of the first subpic as:
(5318313-45045-21021+90090) = 5342337 which yields 59.300 s. In other words, DVDSubEdit adjust the PTS by taking into accound the PTS reset after VCID 1/1.
- PGCDemux by contrast knows that VCID1/1 shouldn't be included (because it's demuxing by PGC). Its adjusted PTS is:
(5318313-21021) = 5297292 which yields 58.800s.

So this all makes sense. I believe PGCDemux is right here. The first VCID should not be taken into account as it isn't part of the movie PGC. I'm not sure whether this should be corrected in DVDSubEdit, which really isn't a demuxer...

Jeanl

[mpucoder]

Both programs are right, you just have to know the perspective. DVDSubEdit is giving timecodes relative to the multiplexed titleset, while PgcDemux can give a title relative view (among others).

[CoNS]

Hmmm, I think it's somewhat "dangerous" if it's left as it is.

IMHO the best solution would be to limit the ability to save .SUP files to cases where there's an .IFO file present, in connection with the loaded .VOB files. So that the PGC info in the .IFO file can be taken into account when saving the .SUP...

If you don't want to go into this, I think would be better to remove the .SUP file function, or keep it as a (hidden) function for debugging purposes only. At the very least I think you should issue a warning when saving a .SUP.

[Mtz]

If SubRip at this moment cannot offer precise timing I prefer to use the timings from sup files generated by PGCDemux or DVDSubEdit than load in DVDSubEdit, OCR to srt and obtain the srt with correct timings.
I hope jeanl to solve the sup > ocr > srt timings correct.
I'm glad to offer my little help to this wonderful application, jeanl.
enjoy,
Mtz

[jeanl]

Mtz, currently DVDSubEdit will give you exactly the same timing value in the .sup and .srt files. The formula is the same (it was not before I fixed the bug in that last version).
The case is that DVDSubEdit and PGCDemux will not necessarily give you the same timing. I'm not sure what to say about it.
My opinion is that it all depends how you demux your video. Presumably, you want a sup to remux in the video. If that's the case, I think you should use PGCDemux since it will demux both the video and the subpics (and the audio). The "save as sup" option in DVDSubEdit was meant to be a convenience rather than a full demuxing feature, for which you would need to specify the starting VCID etc...
jeanl

[odbo2005]

Dear jeanl
Is it possible to add effects to orginal subtitle in DCSQT?

[jeanl]

odbo2005, what kind of effect do you have in mind? At this point, the answer is no: you can't add DCSQTs, so you can't add effects like wipes and fades. If there's enough demand for it, I might add that at one point, but I've seen more people wanting to remove wipes and fades than wanting to add them! :)
Jeanl

[odbo2005]

Jeanl,I want to make subtitle in my DVD like karaoke,
include 2 music track & 2subtitle,one for normal & one for karaoke.
The wipe effect is my nessary.
I can make 2 same subtitle in DVD,than add wipe effect to
one for karaoke,if DVDSubEdit can do this.

[jeanl]

Sorry but DVDSubEdit can't do that at this point.
Beside, I believe you're talking about horizontal wipe effect, and that can't really be done with multiple DCSQTs. If your subtitle is longer than the width of the screen, you can't adjust the startx position outside of the screen to make it move left for example. If I'm not mistaken, these kinds of wipes have to be done by encoding and displaying multiple SPUs ...
Jeanl

[mpucoder]

In karaoke the color of the text changes as the words are sung - this is what I believe odbo2005 wants to do. And it is properly called a wipe, so is revealing the text without repositioning it (it's a wipe from transparent). If the text moves it's called a scroll.
Anyway, to do a wipe you need CHG_COLCON and only one spu.

[jeanl]

OK I get it, mistook a wipe for a scroll!!! Sorry at the moment DVDSubEdit can't do that stuff. I suppose what would be needed would be a way to add DCSQTs, adjusting their timing, and editing the commands in each DCSQT including the CHG_COLCON. That would be a lot of work, I'm afraid...
jeanl

[odbo2005]

Dear Jeanl
Yes,the wipe DCSQT command is mor Complex than scroll & fade.
It's a hard work,I thing so...
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f89/choring/wipe.gif

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f89/choring/wipe_command.gif

[phusg]

Greetings Jeanl et al,

Enjoyed another DVD film this weekend with subtitles nicely repositioned vertically downwards as far as possible!

Only now when I try to burn the adjusted DVD files with Nero I get an error along the lines of, 'File repositioning failed, DVD files not a multiple of 2k'. My question is whether it is possible that DVDSubEdit could have changed the size of the DVD files (even slightly)? I'm now burning the original .iso without problems.

regards,
Pete

[phusg]

Greetings Jeanl et al,

Enjoyed another DVD film this weekend with subtitles nicely repositioned vertically downwards as far as possible!

Only now when I try to burn the adjusted DVD files with Nero I get an error along the lines of, 'File repositioning failed, DVD files not a multiple of 2k'. My question is whether it is possible that DVDSubEdit could have changed the size of the DVD files (even slightly)? I'm now burning the original .iso without problems.

regards,
Pete

Shit, sorry, spoke too soon. Data verification just failed after burning the .iso, so it looks like the problem is all mine! Sorry...

[doggersen]

...I know this subject have been touched before, but just wanted to hear when we can expect (if at all? :)), an option to have the subtitles centered. I know it partly centers subtitles, but not on those subs for hearing impaired where the subtitles are positioned under the characters talking (subtitles practically flying all over the screen).

Also, i know this have also been touched before, but is it technically impossible to have your program edit movies that are "write protected" (i.e. like an image mounted in daemon tools!).

[jeanl]

no, you can't edit an ISO mounted DVD because the mounted files are read-only, and there's nothing that DVDSubEdit can do about that... Sorry. About centering, I"m not sure what you would like... YOu can already reposition the subs exactly where you like them (use the mouse, and drag the subs anywhere you like). I'm guessing you mean when there is text in 2 different places in the picture, and you'd like to be able to move them independently. I haven't implemented that, not too easy either, but I'll put that on the wish list...
jeanl

[doggersen]

Thanks for the answers!

The thing about multiple subs on the screen at once in different places, I haven't really thought about. But I guess some Hearing paired subs has that, so it's great that you will try and find a solution for that.

But it was actually not exactly what i meant.
What I'm thinking about are those hearing impaired subs where the subtitles are not in the middle of the screen at the bottom as normal, but instead they are situated under the characters speaking in the movie.
It's not that they are multiple places at once (at least not always), but that they at one point are displayed at the bottom, and the next subtitle that appears might be situated at the very top (because a character in the upper part of the screens says
something).
It's those subs that i would like to have AUTOMATICALLY centered both vertically and horizontially :)

I've taken the liberty to actually EMAIL you a subtitle file, so you can see the phenomena for yourself. Hope that's okay!

[jeanl]

OK I see, that's probably easier to achieve....
jeanl

[christopheramos]

Hi, I am kind of confused over subtitles versus captions for the hearing impaired when it comes to using DVDSubEdit.

This is an image from a tv show I want to remove the subtitles from. The audio language is in English, and the words at the bottom are Swedish. So I am guessing the words at the bottom are subtitles.

Given that, can DVDSubEdit remove these subtitles and the black boxes the words are in?

What about removing the number 5 at the top, can it do that to?

Thanks!
Chris :)

[setarip_old]

Hi!

When you initially captured this TV show and created the DVD, did you somehow create a separate subtitle/subpic stream, or did you (more likely) capture the onscreen subtitles as a PERMANENT part of the video?

If your DVD doesn't contain a separate subtitle/subpic stream, there's nothing DVDSubEdit can do for you...