Announcing DVDSubEdit Version 1.51

[jeanl]

Announcing DVDSubEdit:
Beta 0.62 of DVDSubEdit can be found here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/)...
(Now Version 1.51)

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/9374/09292006094952ld7.png (http://imageshack.us)
(this image represents version 1.34)

DVDSubEdit allows you to visualize and make modifications to the subpics (subtitles or button highlights in menus) directly inside the VOB files, without the need to demux and remux the subpic stream.

DVDSubEdit has the following features:

Drag/drop one or several vob files, the analysis is done in the background. You can start looking at the SPUs right away.
Displays the subpics along with the background video, reading the Color Lookup Table from the IFO.
You can move the subpicture up and down and see the result right away.
You can select subpictures by stream ID (language) or by Vob/Cell IDs and only move the selected subpictures.
When you're satisfied with what you see, simply click "Save all changes". Saving takes a few seconds, and you can test your modification in your favorite software player.


As usual, feedback is welcome on this thread!
jeanl

DVDSubEdit Beta .62
- The application is now called DVDSubEdit (I slightly altered ricardo.santos' suggestion here!).
- The subpic language is displayed in the stream selectiong drop-down. The display can change as you go through the SPUs as they might be referenced by different PGCs with different stream setups.
- When opening a "middle" vob in a vts (e.g. VTS_01_2.VOB), the first subpic was often displayed the wrong way (not CLUT
and no background video) because no navpack had been found prior to the subpic pack. DVDSubEdit now skips
the first subpic pack if no navpack can be found before it.
- Tried to improve (but didn't succeed entirely) the display of the first subpic (flickering etc).

[setarip_old]

Congratulations on what looks like an equisitely designed and very useful tool!

[jeanl]

Thanks starip_old! I don't know about exquisitely designed (the UI is still missing a face lift!), but I feel the app is fairly robust at this point.
Now, I just have to add a few features that people on this forum have asked for... Moving subpics toward the center (rather than up/down), etc etc etc...
jeanl

[Zeul]

:eek:
This is awesome - I especially love the DCQST command list. I believe this is the first tool that actually shows the make up of the sub packet commands.
:eek:

I don't seem to be able to alter the transparency level though.

[bigotti5]

Great tool

Missing on the "Not yet implemented" list:

change the STA_DSP command to FSTA_DSP and vice versa (non forced to forced)

[Rockas]

One word: FABULASTIC!!!

[jeanl]

:eek:
This is awesome - I especially love the DCQST command list. I believe this is the first tool that actually shows the make up of the sub packet commands.
:eek:
I don't seem to be able to alter the transparency level though.
Yes, I believe this is the first tool that lets you look at these commands (I'm quite used to reading them straight from vobedit though!), not extremely useful, except for understanding how all this works.
And no, you can't change the transparency yet. This will be easy to do though, but will require 4 sliders (you have to be able to change it for each type of pixel...).
jeanl

[jeanl]

Great tool

Missing on the "Not yet implemented" list:

change the STA_DSP command to FSTA_DSP and vice versa (non forced to forced)
oh yes, I forgot! Thanks for reminding me. Tell me why you'd need that feature though?
(I do remember a DVD where the subpics were forced that way, not burned into the video, but forced by a FSTA_DSP, and the user had no way to turn them off, took me a while to understand why that was the case)...
jeanl

[jeanl]

One word: FABULASTIC!!!
Thanks! Thanks to all of you guys for your enthusiasm!

jeanl

[jeanl]

I've put an unofficial Beta 0.63 here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/Downloads/).

The transparency slider is now enabled so you can change the transparency of individual pixel types, or of all the pixels. DVDSubEdit is (somewhat) smart in that it attempts to detect which pixel type is actually used for the background and does not change its transparency when you select "all pixels". (that way, the background remains transparent no matter the transparency of the "useful" pixels).

This new feature allows you to "remove" subpics by making them transparent. You can also use the slider to visualize highlights in menus (which are normally transparent in their default state).

Let me know what you think...
Jeanl

[blutach]

Darn great work Jean.

Regards

[Zeul]

Seems to work like a charm :)

[frank]

Fantastic, Jean!
Hope we can integrate this tool into PgcEdit.

I'm working on a simple subtitle plugin for PgcEdit.
But its very usefull (and better) to integrate this feature in your program.

Feature request
- Set subpictures as forced in the Vobs. (and reverse)
Changing the start display command 01h into forced start display 00h in the DCSQT can do that.
There is much misunderstanding about forced subpictures in the world.
But real forced subtitles must have this start command 00h.
You also can manually set some subpictures of a stream as forced that can't be switched off.
This feature is used in LordOTR (PAL 2). If subpics are switched off then only the (forced) alien dialog from the german sub stream is displayed.
You don't need a separate stream for forced subs, you can force them in the current stream.

My dvd players (with Omega chip set) can continuously resize the picture. :D Very nice feature I'm missing in new devices. So I can enlarge 2.35 movie format to fill the 16:9 screen.
But if I use resizing then normal subpictures disappear (switched off). Only forced subpictures are staying on their place.

[edit]Huhh. bigotti5 had the same request.

[Afrinux]

Nice work, jeanl.
A very useful tool.
Is it an open source? Couldnt find the sources at the website.

[jeanl]

Fantastic, Jean!
Hope we can integrate this tool into PgcEdit.

difficult, there are language issues (and I'm not talking about french! :D))

Feature request
- Set subpictures as forced in the Vobs. (and reverse)
Changing the start display command 01h into forced start display 00h in the DCSQT can do that.
There is much misunderstanding about forced subpictures in the world.
But real forced subtitles must have this start command 00h.
You also can manually set some subpictures of a stream as forced that can't be switched off.
This feature is used in LordOTR (PAL 2). If subpics are switched off then only the (forced) alien dialog from the german sub stream is displayed.
You don't need a separate stream for forced subs, you can force them in the current stream.

My dvd players (with Omega chip set) can continuously resize the picture. :D Very nice feature I'm missing in new devices. So I can enlarge 2.35 movie format to fill the 16:9 screen.
But if I use resizing then normal subpictures disappear (switched off). Only forced subpictures are staying on their place.

[edit]Huhh. bigotti5 had the same request.
I completely agree with you about the misunderstanding. I too have seen much confusion about forced subtitles. Changing FSTA into STA and vice versa is the next thing I will implement. Compared to the rest, it's pretty easy!
jeanl

[jeanl]

Nice work, jeanl.
A very useful tool.
Is it an open source? Couldnt find the sources at the website.
It's not "open source" per se, but I will make the source code available. Are you interested in a particular aspect of it?
jeanl

[frank]

Changing FSTA into STA and vice versa is the next thing I will implement.Yeahh! :D :D
A clever french man made the reverse engineering of the commands in 2001.
DVD subtitles (http://sam.zoy.org/writings/dvd/subtitles/)
The only link I found!

[jeanl]

Now we have mpucoder's explanations which are quite a bit more detailed:
http://www.mpucoder.com/guides/subpic2.html
I believe this is available to anybody (don't have to register)...
jeanl

[mpucoder]

Jean, if you have the demo DVD for DVD Demystified please try vts_14_1.vob
DVDSubEdit is crashing on this vob, which is, admittedly, a torture test. This is the demo of subpicture effects - fade, wipe, and scroll - these use a lot of commands, including 07 - CHG_COLCON (which is why I tried it). I've tried to edit the vob down to the part that causes the crash just in case you do not have a copy of the disk, but it looks like the smallest I can get it to is 11MB. Let me know if you need that part and can receive it somewhere.

[spyhawk]

Now we have mpucoder's explanations which are quite a bit more detailed:
http://www.mpucoder.com/guides/subpic2.html
I believe this is available to anybody (don't have to register)...
jeanlNope, you have to register to view it.

[jeanl]

Jean, if you have the demo DVD for DVD Demystified please try vts_14_1.vob
DVDSubEdit is crashing on this vob, which is, admittedly, a torture test. This is the demo of subpicture effects - fade, wipe, and scroll - these use a lot of commands, including 07 - CHG_COLCON (which is why I tried it). I've tried to edit the vob down to the part that causes the crash just in case you do not have a copy of the disk, but it looks like the smallest I can get it to is 11MB. Let me know if you need that part and can receive it somewhere.
mpucoder, I was waiting for someone to do just what you did!!!!
Currently DVDSubEdit does not parse the 07 command, and I'm not sure how it behaves when it finds it (poorly, apparently!!!!). I was expecting the day somebody would run into that!
I don't have that DVD, it would be great if you could send me a tiny portion of that VOB (if it's OK to do that) so I can see what exactly is causing the crash. I've only tested DVDSubEdit with "standard" vobs (from commercial DVDs) which, I'm sure, do not exercize the entire specs, far from it...
The crash could be caused by too many DCSQTs or whatever, but I'd have to take a look to find out!

Let me know if that's OK!!
jeanl

[jeanl]

Nope, you have to register to view it.
mpucoder, any chance you might relax your policy on that front?
jeanl

[jeanl]

mpucoder, I got your example, and indeed, the crash is related to the fact that there are a large number of DCSQTs for these subpics, and DVDSubEdit only has room for 4 currently (and does not check if there's more - bad boy jeanl!).
I'll fix that soon! Then we'll find out what happens when you have 07 commands!
Jeanl

[jeanl]

OK I put a cleaned up (temporary) version here
http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/Downloads/

which will load the right number of DCSQTs. mpucoder, you can try it on the rest of the file, but I'm sure it will complain about the 07 command!
jeanl

[influenza]

Looks very nice.

Would it be possible to import subs for an entire pgc for example? That would make a lot of fansubbers very happy :)

[CoNS]

Would it be possible to import subs for an entire pgc for example?AFAIK this is not possible. You must demux the PGC and mux it back together with your new subtitle stream.

However, AFAIK it may be possible to replace a single subpic with a new one, depending on the sizes of the two subpics. Maybe that would be useful when you have custom made subtitles with spelling and translation mistakes etc. that you want to fix in a few of the existing subpic?

(in theori, this way you could replace all subpics in a stream, one by one, and this achieving your goal. However, as you cannot do much about the timings of the subpics inside the vob files, it would require your new subtitles to consist of exactly the same number of bitmap images, with the same start and end times)

[influenza]

I'm not interested in replacing subs myself and if I would be I would author them in. It's just that there are always a lot of question on this subject and mostly by people that do not know the word authoring ;) So a bit of self interest here :)

[zacoz]

As usual, feedback is welcome on this thread!
Another excellent addition to the toolkit. :thanks:

[jeanl]

@influenza and CoNS, I'm very scared of the remuxing idea, even just to change the delay. I'm thinking about doing that in DVDSubEdit, but it's a risky proposition, lots of things can go wrong if you don't remux correctly, it took me a while to get it "right" in menushrink (and I'm not sure it's that right!).
But eventually, I'll look into it.
@zacoz, thanks man!
Jeanl

[jeanl]

People, here's a new, unofficial beta (beta 0.67) of DVDSubEdit.
http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/Downloads/

The main new feature is the support for STA and FSTA changes to force subtitles or unforce them.

- The video background now shows button rectangles it there are any.
- DVDSubEdit now can change STA to FSTA and vice versa.
- The transparency was not respected when the CLUT couldn't be found. This has been fixed.
- DVDSubEdit should not crash when CHG_COLCON commands are found (it simply won't parse it and stop parsing the DCSQTs).

NOTE: BE CAREFUL! The way DVDSubEdit now works, if you apply the modifications to all subtitles, everything gets changed: the transparency is changed according to the slider, the subtitles are moved according to the slider, and all STA/FSTA commands are changed according to the selector.
Of course, this will be changed in the future. I'm still thinking about the best way to present that to the user.

jeanl

[Afrinux]

It's not "open source" per se, but I will make the source code available. Are you interested in a particular aspect of it?
jeanl
Yeah! I believe this tool can be very handy to make some karoake DVDs.

[promitheas]

It's been years we needed such a tool!
Very promessing for translating subpictures into movies.
Do you think it'd ever be possible to substitute a subpicture or a sequence of subpictures by another?
Thanks!
Promitheas

[jeanl]

Well, I'm not sure DVDSubEdit can really be useful to replace subs at this point. See the posts above. Replacing is possible if the subpic data has about the same size as the original. But if you're replacing an entire stream with another (changing the language for example) I believe demuxing remuxing is the way to go.
THe same applies for karaoke. I'm not sure how you could use DVDSubEdit for that. It can't insert subs, it only modifies the ones that are already there... And only some aspects of them...
jeanl

[bigotti5]

Transparency does not work for me
I can drag the slider - preview and values changes fine but after saving and reloading b,p,e1 and e2 have the old values
same on a player

(Ver0.67 and 0.64)

[jeanl]

ooops! You're right! Sorry about that, silly bug. I'll fix an post an update!
jeanl

[jeanl]

New version beta 0.68
http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/Downloads/
Which fixes the transparency problem (promised!).

jeanl

[bigotti5]

Which fixes the transparency problem (promised!).

Works as promised :D

[jeanl]

Good! :)
jeanl

[Afrinux]

THe same applies for karaoke. I'm not sure how you could use DVDSubEdit for that. It can't insert subs, it only modifies the ones that are already there... And only some aspects of them...
jeanl
Thats the reason why I asked for the source codes earlier. I wanted to add the Karaoke feature in this tool.

[jeanl]

But to add subpics, you need much much more than my source code! You need to write rle encoding, but the most challenging part is you need to do the tricky muxing...
jeanl

[Karyudo]

Hey, jeanl:

While I don't need your tool right at the moment, I'm having fun following along with the discussion of what it can do. Thanks for making this useful tool!

Doom9 is currently linking to your thread from the news page on the main site, dumping people to the first post. For that reason, perhaps you could continue to edit your first post to make sure the most up-to-date beta turns up there? That way anyone finding your thread for the first time gets the best version without having to search through a few more pages. Just a suggestion to maybe help avoid you having to post, "You need the updated version," in answer to "How come xxx doesn't work???" questions...

[jeanl]

Karyudo, thanks for the good words... Yes, every time I come up with a new "official" beta release, I update the first post to reflect that. The minor updates above are simply for the people who are following the threads, and can do quick tests to see if things work properly. I'll send a new update on monday, with the latest bug fixes...
jeanl

[CoNS]

Feature request: It would be nice to be able to automatically delete whole subpics, lines in subpics/parts of subpics with text for hearing impaired (wrapped in brackets, [ ]) and/or lyrics for music (wrapped in musical notes).

The reason for the request is this: I watch quite many imported region 1 DVDs, as movies are typically released much faster in America than in Scandinavia where I live. Since English is not my native language, I need to turn subtitles on in order to understand the entire dialogue.

English subtitles are fine for me, BUT on most region 1 DVDs the English subtitles are made for the deaf or hearing impaired, i.e. with lots of descriptions of background sounds etc., which I find very distracting not being a deaf or hearing impaired person.

So I'd like to be able to easily remove these parts, without having to demux/remux first (it takes too long and too much work) and without having to manually edit the bitmap subs (it would spoil the movie experience to go through the dialogue manually before watching the movie itself).

I realize that it would probably take some kind of OCR implementation (like in SubRip) or something like that for the program to recognize the unwanted parts, and thus you'll probably think it would be too much hassle to do, but please give it a thought anyway! :)

[jeanl]

CoNS, you crack me up! Check jsoto's message (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=736374#post736374) in the original thread!!!
No, really, it's going to be hard to implement that. Even recognizing a braket will not be that easy without a decent OCR, but a musical note?! I'm not sure CoNS... If at least they were a different color, that would be easy!

jeanl

[jeanl]

Guys!
New version beta 0.69
http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/Downloads/
This makes it possible to apply only a subset of the changes that you made to the current SPU to the rest of the SPUs. I had to do that before adding new modifications.

- When clicking "Apply to all" a new dialog pops up where you can select which changes to apply to all subpics.
- Fixed a tiny bug that sometimes caused the transparency slider to move when moving the subpic all the way to the top.

I will make an official beta release very soon (today or tomorrow)...
jeanl

[jeanl]

Announcing DVDSubEdit:
Beta 0.69 of DVDSubEdit is now available here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/)...

Here's the change log from beta 0.62

DVDSubEdit can change normal start commands (STA) to forced start (FSTA) and vice versa. This enables you to turn regular subtitles into forced ones (always on, as soon as the stream is selected), or forced ones into regular ones.
DVDSubEdit can change the transparency. Selecting "All" pixels applies the selected transparency amount to all pixels except for the pixels that are used for the background.
When clicking "Apply to all" a new dialog pops up where you can select which changes to apply to all subpics.
The subtitle duration is now correct when there's more than 2 DCSQTs (sets of commands).
The video background now shows button rectangles it there are any buttons defined in the navpacks preceding the subpic packs..
DVDSubEdit no longer crashes when CHG_COLCON commands are found (it simply stops parsing the commands). CHG_COLCON commands are very rare (haven't seen one yet).
There's a help file embedded into the app. It's empty at this point.
Switched to using STL vectors in the CSubpic and CSubPicEngine class. This allows me to deal with SPUs with very large numbers
of command sets.
The transparency was ignored when the CLUT couldn't be found. This has been fixed.
There sometimes (rarely) were crashes while loading. These have been fixed.


As usual, feedback is welcome on this thread!
jeanl

[jsoto]

CoNS, you crack me up! Check jsoto's message (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=736374#post736374) in the original thread!!!
Ooh, so finally I need to learn Klingon... :(

Many thanks for your tool, jeanl. I'm really impressed.

jsoto

[jeanl]

Thanks jsoto, my feeling is that this is waaaaay easier to code than menushrink ever was! As long as you don't do anything too stupid, you can be almost sure you won't break anything and your DVD will still work... No need for endless tests (mostly done by blutach and r0lZ!!!! on various finicky players!).
jeanl

[goonix]

@Jeanl

Thanks for the valuable tool!

Only a short question.
If I examine the subpic of a menu with "Ignore CLUT" checked, I get following colors:
Original DVDSubEdit
b red black
p black white
e1 blue green
e2 white blueWhat is the reason to display it in different colors?

goonix

[jeanl]

Well, if you ignore the PGC CLUT, then there's no chance that the colors I picked (arbitrarily, black white green and blue) will match the colors that were used in the PGC and in the colorscheme, right?
If you click "ignore CLUT", instead of using the colors defined in the CLUT of the pgc that references that part of the video, you use arbitrary colors (chosen - poorly! - by me and hard-coded into DVDSubEdit).
Does that answer your question?

If you want to see the original colors in a menu, don't click ignore CLUT and move the transparency slider all the way to the right. You will get the "default" colors of the pixels, but they might be very different from the ones used when buttons are selected or activated (that's defined in the colorscheme, in the navpacks, and DVDSubEdit does not implement that yet)...

jeanl

[goonix]

use arbitrary colors (chosen - poorly! - by me and hard-coded into DVDSubEdit)
Does that answer your question?Yes. And thanks for the fast response.

goonix

[Zeul]

bug :)
When altering the transparency and the etting is set to ALL, P doesn't get reset. Bg, E1, E2 are all adjusted but not P.

[jeanl]

Zeul, it's probably not a bug, it's a feature! :)
When you set it to all, all the pixels except the pixels used for the background are set to the transparency value. Now, DVDSubEdit tries to be smart about which pixels are used for the background (it doesn't simply assume that it's the "b" pixels, because more often than not, it's not!). It tries to determine which pixels are used for background (it's very simple: it looks at the pixel at the upper left corner, and assumes this is the background pixel). Then all other pixels are modified. The idea was that usually you don't want to change the background transparency.
If you do want to change it, then select the ""p" pixels, and move the slider...
If you really want a "Really All" selector, I can add that...
jeanl

[Zeul]

Cool - 'feature' not required. I can see your logic and agree.

[jeanl]

Excellent! :)
jeanl

[Mtz]

It is possible to enable some "guide-lines", I think one bottom line, for the bottom subtitles positions? This line is different for players or TV because of overscan. If I lower the subtitles position too much (even if in the DVDSubEdit everything was OK) is possible to lose the bottom line and be outside of TV screen.
We make some tests, find the right bottom position line witch fit OK in our sets and use the same positions in future DVDs.
Congratulations for your nice tool!

enjoy,
Mtz

[jeanl]

This is the next feature on my list (I've started coding it). Unfortunately, the overscan is different from TV to TV (and as you said, there's no overscan on a computer and I'm guessing on LCD/plasma TVs and projectors)... The new feature will allow you to automatically move the subpics so they fit within two horizontal lines, at the top and bottom.
jeanl

[Mtz]

Yes, but I saw some DVDs which have more than 2 subtitles lines. I think only the bottom line is enough.
Here is just an example screenshot. Look only at the "Safe area lines" and the bottom line. Only this two I think are needed. The screenshot is taked from a program called MTKWindows and I used it only to give you some idea.
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/8959/bottomsub5qh.th.jpg (http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bottomsub5qh.jpg)

enjoy,
Mtz

[jeanl]

Guys,
Here's a new unofficial beta for DVDSubEdit. It's beta 0.70, which you can find here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/Downloads/)

- Added slider to define a vertical "safe area" for the subtitles. They're moved just enough to fall within the area. This is not available / applied if the SPU is a button highlight.
- Added button to only display modified subtitles.

Let me know what you think. It's preliminary, I have to polish the UI a bit, but the functionality is there.
jeanl

[jeanl]

Beta 0.71 of DVDSubEdit is now available here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/)...

http://img308.imageshack.us/img308/2770/dvdsubedit3sf.png (http://imageshack.us)



Here's the change log from beta 0.69

Added slider to define a vertical "safe area" for the subtitles. They're moved just enough to fall within the area.
This is not available / applied if the SPU is a button highlight.
Added button to only display modified subtitles.
Improved the SPU slider behavior when selecting various streams.


As usual, feedback is welcome on this thread!
jeanl

[voo_doo99]

Beta 0.71 of DVDSubEdit is now available

I just started using this tool, it's really neat and I like it a lot. As I often watch DVDs with Sub-title on, this tool would enhance the viewing. :thanks:

I have the following comments and questions:
- Sometimes I need to manually position a bunch of SPUs away from the text/graphics in the video. The SPUs were usually sequential in this case, but the change steps had to be repeated for each SPU, and this got hard on the hand. Can you add a button to "Apply last value" for the position box?.
- The position slider is good for large adjustment but awkward for small one. Can you add left/right arrows for fine adjustment?
- The Sub display position changed in 4:3 TV. Is there a way to preview the Sub position for 4:3 TV screen?
- Questions: can Sub font size/type be changed?

Thanks and keep up the good work.

[jeanl]

I just started using this tool, it's really neat and I like it a lot. As I often watch DVDs with Sub-title on, this tool would enhance the viewing. :thanks:

I have the following comments and questions:
- Sometimes I need to manually position a bunch of SPUs away from the text/graphics in the video. The SPUs were usually sequential in this case, but the change steps had to be repeated for each SPU, and this got hard on the hand. Can you add a button to "Apply last value" for the position box?.

:D this is next on my todo! I've noticed how tedious it can be, and I want to fix that. I'm adding a menu to the app, with a option to "redo modifications" and a keyboard shortcut.

- The position slider is good for large adjustment but awkward for small one. Can you add left/right arrows for fine adjustment?

Yes, good idea.

- The Sub display position changed in 4:3 TV. Is there a way to preview the Sub position for 4:3 TV screen?

Not sure what you mean. Can you explain? If your DVD is 16:9 there are 3 display types possible, 16:9, letterboxed and pan/scan. Usually subtitles are provided both for 16:9 and letterboxed. Is that what you mean? DVDSubEdit shows you both (they're in separate streams) and you can adjust them independently.

- Questions: can Sub font size/type be changed?

NO! That would be great, but unfortunately this is far from easy. Sub are not coded as text files in the DVD! they're images. So to change the font or the size you'd have to work straight on the image (either by doing some image manipulation -zooming etc- or character recognition and re-encoding). In any case, this is not easy, and the new subpics have to fit (sector-wise) in the space taken by the original ones. Certainly not an easy task.

jean

[voo_doo99]

:D this is next on my todo! I've noticed how tedious it can be, and I want to fix that. I'm adding a menu to the app, with a option to "redo modifications" and a keyboard shortcut.

Yes, good idea.

TIA for the future enhancements :cool:


Not sure what you mean. Can you explain? If your DVD is 16:9 there are 3 display types possible, 16:9, letterboxed and pan/scan. Usually subtitles are provided both for 16:9 and letterboxed. Is that what you mean? DVDSubEdit shows you both (they're in separate streams) and you can adjust them independently.
jean

Well, my DVD is 16:9 but my TV is 4:3, so I can only view the DVD in my TV letterboxed display mode. I noticed, becaused of my 4:3 LB display, the Sub positions that I selected with DVDSubEdit preview 16:9 mode were moved toward the bottom or top blank areas. I would really like to preview the Sub exact position in the 4:3 LB display, but was not able to do so with DVDSubEdit or a software player [which would only display the DVD in its 16:9 format]. Since you are known as the preview king, I thought I'd ask :D . And... could you also add a Play/Stop button to allow continuous preview of the SPUs :)

:thanks:

[jeanl]

Well, my DVD is 16:9 but my TV is 4:3, so I can only view the DVD in my TV letterboxed display mode. I noticed, becaused of my 4:3 LB display, the Sub positions that I selected with DVDSubEdit preview 16:9 mode were moved toward the bottom or top blank areas. I would really like to preview the Sub exact position in the 4:3 LB display, but was not able to do so with DVDSubEdit or a software player [which would only display the DVD in its 16:9 format]. Since you are known as the preview king, I thought I'd ask :D . And... could you also add a Play/Stop button to allow continuous preview of the SPUs :)
:thanks:
OK I see what you mean. What we need is for DVDSubEdit to display the 16:9 video as it would be seen in a LB 4:3 TV (i.e., with the black bands at the top and bottom) and show the subtitles exactly where they will fall. At the moment, the subtitles are shown in their correct location in true 16:9 mode or in original 4:3 mode. I need to do what pgcedit does when it shows menus in the three different modes. I"ll put that on my todo list!
Jeanl

[jeanl]

Here's an unofficial release, beta 0.72 (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/Downloads) with the following improvements:

The app now has a menu, which should help "unclutter" the dialog.
There's an OpenFile menu to open a single vob, and an Open Full Domain to open a complete title.
Modifications brought to an spu can be pasted to another (use CTRL-V or the Edit menu).
Added tiny buttons to move subpics or borders by +/- 1 or 2 pixels.
New Icon for the app, thanks to Andrew Wagner!


Let me know what you think!
Thanks!
Jeanl

[Sajan]

@Jeanl
Hi. Here is a question... Do you plan to add in DVDSubEdit such features as editing times or delay of SPUs? Or it's impossible because it will require remuxing of VOB?

[Zeul]

The delay could be changed easily within the SPU details - however sufficent checks would need to be in place to ensure that the new timestamps would not conflict with other subs.

[r0lZ]

But you cannot display the subpic before the pack in which it is defined is encountered. I guess you need demuxing if you want full control. It should be possible however to fine tune the delays w/o demuxing.

[jeanl]

The delay could be changed easily within the SPU details - however sufficent checks would need to be in place to ensure that the new timestamps would not conflict with other subs.
It's not that easy either! According to mpucoder, the first command set (with a 0 delay) HAS to have the start command. So you can't use a command delay to delay the subs. One way I thought of was to make them transparent at first, then give them their original opacity in a timed command...
But IMHO, the better way to do it is to remux, in place if possible...
jeanl

[Sajan]

@Jeanl
Did you think about something like editing demuxed subtitles (.sup)?

[jeanl]

mmm, no I didn't. There's many tools for that... Do a search on subpic or subtitles in the videohelp tool section, and you'll see!
jeanl

[CoNS]

@Jeanl
Did you think about something like editing demuxed subtitles (.sup)?I highly recommend SubtitleCreator's Manipulate SUP tool for this... It'll let you delete subpics, change vertical positioning etc., too

[Sajan]

Yes, SubtitleCreator is the almost one program that allow this (maybe srt2sup too, I didn't try it yet). But SubtitleCreator still have some bugs... I dont' know any other program that can edit SUP. That's why I'm still looking for a such prog.

[jeanl]

Sajan, what are you trying to do to your subpics?
jeanl

[CoNS]

Yes, SubtitleCreator is the almost one program that allow this (maybe srt2sup too, I didn't try it yet). But SubtitleCreator still have some bugs... My experience is that Paddington, the author of SubtitleCreator, is very open to bug reports, suggestions of new features etc. However, he doesn't seem to check the Subtitle section of this forum so often! You could try to send him a pm with your bug report/suggestions...

[Sajan]

Sajan, what are you trying to do to your subpics?
jeanl
I'm just want to edit DVD my subtitles. Recognition, converting back to SUP... - it's too much unreasonable work for timing of some phrases or to set a delay of entire subpic.

My experience is that Paddington, the author of SubtitleCreator, is very open to bug reports, suggestions of new features etc. However, he doesn't seem to check the Subtitle section of this forum so often! You could try to send him a pm with your bug report/suggestions...
Yes, I had conversation with him several times (basically via PM or e-mail), some days ago I've posted in SubtitleCreator thread (still w/o answer), so my experience tells me the same now (that PM or e-mail is more preferred to him:)).

[Sir Didymus]

Hi Sajan.

For basic manipulations of sup files, I had recently some nice experience using DvdSupTools:

http://web.quick.cz/FKasparek/Software/DVD/DVDSupTools.htm

The interface is very poor (command line based) but it very easily allows to decode the sup titles, generating a txt file and, optionally, a very small bitmat for each subtitle. These files can be changed via standard text and graphic editors. Then the new subtitles can be encoded again in the native format via the Subtitle Encoder...

Edit: by the way, sorry being definitely off topic...
and many, many thanks to jeanl for his excellent tool...

[jeanl]

I have a question for you dedicated users :D
I've had a couple requests to add regular movie playback so the subs show as the movie plays. That's relatively easy with the preview code (based on dvd2avi), but the problem is, it's without audio!!!! My feeling is that it's nearly useless if you can't hear the audio at the same time you see the subs. How else would you check good synchronization...
Do you guys agree?
If you do, I probably won't implement the "playback" idea.... Not until dvd2avi can playback audio (which isn't in a while!).
jeanl

[Rockas]

I have a question for you dedicated users :D
I've had a couple requests to add regular movie playback so the subs show as the movie plays. That's relatively easy with the preview code (based on dvd2avi), but the problem is, it's without audio!!!! My feeling is that it's nearly useless if you can't hear the audio at the same time you see the subs. How else would you check good synchronization...
Do you guys agree?
If you do, I probably won't implement the "playback" idea.... Not until dvd2avi can playback audio (which isn't in a while!).
jeanl
That could be solved if you add an option to load an Audio stream, right?
THat way, users could demux the audio track and then load it.

[kumi]

On the Hong Kong Legends PAL (R2, R4) disc of Mr. Vampire I have, both subpicture streams have 0-value contrast on all SPUs (b=0 p=0 e1=0 and e2=0) :( They need to be b=0 p=15 e1=15 and e2=15.

I went about fixing this in DVDSubEdit 0.73, but for some reason, the changes are not being saved to the VOBs. Here's my workflow for reference:

0) Rip to directory on NTFS drive.
1) File | Open full domain | select "VTS_01_1.VOB"
2) Wait for SPUs to load (there's 2 streams, about 2000 total subpics)
3) Edit current subpic | p | move slider to 15
4) Click apply to all selected.
5) repeat steps 3 and 4 for e1 and e2.
6) Click Save All Changes. The progress meter in the status box that opens doesn't "progress", although the preview and subpic info parts of the main window redraw repeatedly for about 1/2 a minute, indicating some sort of activity is going on ;)

After the save status box closes itself, the SPUs show that my changes have been applied... but when I re-open DSE and reload the vobs, the contrast values are all back to 0.

thanks

Edit: Here's what a typical SPU info looks like, after applying changes:

SPU# = 530
StreamID = 0x21
LBA = 36803
V/CID = 1/7
Duration = 3.675s
DCSQT: 0
Set Color: e2=1 e1=1 p=2 b=3
Set Contrast: e2=15 e1=15 p=15 b=0
Set Display Area: sx=0 ex=719 sy=2 ey=574
Set field indexes
Start
End of commands
DCSQT: 1 -- Delay 0.034s
Set Color: e2=1 e1=1 p=2 b=3
Set Contrast: e2=15 e1=15 p=15 b=0
End of commands
DCSQT: 2 -- Delay 3.630s
Set Color: e2=1 e1=1 p=2 b=3
Set Contrast: e2=15 e1=15 p=15 b=0
End of commands
DCSQT: 3 -- Delay 3.675s
Set Color: e2=1 e1=1 p=2 b=3
Set Contrast: e2=15 e1=15 p=15 b=0
Stop

[jeanl]

kumi, which version are you using? There was a bug in an earlier version that caused transparency modifications to not be saved to the vob...
The fact that the progress bar does not progress when you save is strange. That definitely should not be the case!
Let me know which version you're using. If not the latest, update and let me know... If it still does not work, I'll look into the problem!
Sorry about that...
Jeanl
P.S. You could select "All pixels" to change the transparency of all the pixels but the background ones.

[jeanl]

That could be solved if you add an option to load an Audio stream, right?
THat way, users could demux the audio track and then load it.
Well, if you're going to demux, then you should use other tools to modify your subpics, don't you think?

jeanl

[Rockas]

Well, if you're going to demux, then you should use other tools to modify your subpics, don't you think?

jeanl
Well... sorry... what I meant was to extract the needed/wanted audio track and use it... no need to demux everything.

[jeanl]

mmm, it's a possibility... Then you have the added problem of playing exotic audio (like aac, or mpeg), I'd have to find code to do that I guess....
Jeanl

[Rockas]

I guess a simple avs file will do it, don't you think? using nicaudio dll maybe?

[kumi]

@jeanl:

I'm using http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEditBeta0.73.zip , should I try another version?

I edited my post with an example SPU. Is it strange that they have 4 DCSQTs?

[jeanl]

OK, you're using the right version, no problem on that side.
The fact that there's several DCSQT is probably the key to the problem. Could you possibly extract some of the vob (include 1 or 2 spu) and send it to me at jeanldvd at free dot fr? You could use jsoto's CutFile tool to cut only a portion of the vob so it's not too big.
http://jsoto.posunplugged.com/others.htm

Make sure what you send me indeed has an spu similar to what you have. I'll look at my code on my end...
jeanl

[jeanl]

OK I went ahead and looked at my code. DVDSubEdit only modifies the transparency in the first DCSQT.
Note that what you have, apparently, is subpics that start transparent (according to what you said, transparency was 0 in the original), then become visible very quickly (0.034s later). I'm not sure why they were authored that way, but they should show in your DVD player!

Are you saying that after you apply the changes, then save to the vob, when you reload the vob, the transparency in the first DCSQT is back to 0?
That's very weird...
jeanl

[kumi]

Thanks! You've got mail..

[kumi]

Oops, I didn't see you made another post.

Actually, ALL the DCSQTs are totally transparent in my VOBs. Doesn't make much sense, but that's the way they are. They don't play on my SAP or on MPC, obviously. Your program's subpic info pane shows that contrast changes are applied to all of the DCSQTs, but when I reload, they're all back to 0.

[jeanl]

kumi,
THanks a bunch for this fine subpic example, ... which exposed a bug in DVDSubEdit (now corrected). In fact, there was several bugs! The transparency displayed was that of the last DCSQT (for all DCSQT!), but the one changed was that of the first DCSQT, which means you never saw any change. This has been fixed: now DVDSubEdit shows the true transparency values for each DCSQT, and modifies the first one (not sure what to do here, ideally, the user should be able to chose which one).
FYI: the "real" DCSQT commands now look like this:

SPU# = 0
StreamID = 0x20
LBA = 821
V/CID = 1/1
PTS = 5356800 (59.52s)
Duration = 2.673s
DCSQT: 0
Set Color: e2=1 e1=1 p=2 b=3
Set Contrast: e2=15 e1=15 p=15 b=0
Set Display Area: sx=0 ex=719 sy=2 ey=574
Set field indexes
Forced Start
End of commands
DCSQT: 1 -- Delay 0.034s
Set Color: e2=1 e1=1 p=2 b=3
Set Contrast: e2=13 e1=14 p=15 b=0
End of commands
DCSQT: 2 -- Delay 2.640s
Set Color: e2=1 e1=1 p=2 b=3
Set Contrast: e2=7 e1=7 p=8 b=0
End of commands
DCSQT: 3 -- Delay 2.674s
Set Color: e2=1 e1=1 p=2 b=3
Set Contrast: e2=0 e1=0 p=0 b=0
Stop

and you can see that your subpics do a "fade out" where they start opaque, then gradually fade away. Nice...
Now, why they don't show in MPC is another story. Do they show in PowerDVD?

I'm posting a new unofficial version on the web page:
http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEditBeta0.74.zip

Beta .74
- Added code to pick the colors for the default CLUT. These are saved in the settings.
- The spu PTS time is now displayed.
- The spu duration can now be changed (experimental, I haven't put safeguards yet).
- Fixed a bug that caused the wrong transparency values to be displayed when several DCSQTs were present (thanks kumi!)


Give it a shot kumi, tell me what you think...
Jeanl

[kumi]

Aha... so that's how it's done! I have a few DVDs with fading subs in my collection, and I've always wondered what subtitle authoring tool could produce that... it's a subtle yet very professional-looking effect. Is there room to add multiple DCSQT commands to simple on-off SPUs? I'm thinking an "Add fadeout" function in your tool would really be wonderful... ;)

I agree with your point that the user should be able to choose the DCSQT #. This is a tool for "powerusers" after all, so feature-bloat is welcome!

I'll try modifying in 0.74 tomorrow, but just loading the VOBs right now I can see that the commands are read correctly, nice job! As far as proper playback is concerned, I think a previous version of MPC might work for me, because I distinctly remember watching a "fading-subs" DVD on it last year. I might have an old PowerDVD version to test with also. Why my SAP (NAD brand) won't play them, I have no idea... Are these multiple-commands-per-SPU not legal from a specifications standpoint?

thanks

[jeanl]

Aha... so that's how it's done! I have a few DVDs with fading subs in my collection,

I don't! This is the first time I've seen that...

and I've always wondered what subtitle authoring tool could produce that... it's a subtle yet very professional-looking effect. Is there room to add multiple DCSQT commands to simple on-off SPUs? I'm thinking an "Add fadeout" function in your tool would really be wonderful... ;)

Well, that depends on the spus... Some would have the room, others would require an additional pack, which would require a lot more work (like, moving all the subsequent packs down, updating a bunch of pointers etc).

I'll try modifying in 0.74 tomorrow, but just loading the VOBs right now I can see that the commands are read correctly, nice job! As far as proper playback is concerned, I think a previous version of MPC might work for me, because I distinctly remember watching a "fading-subs" DVD on it last year. I might have an old PowerDVD version to test with also. Why my SAP (NAD brand) won't play them, I have no idea... Are these multiple-commands-per-SPU not legal from a specifications standpoint?

Having multiple DCSQTs per spu is quite legal, so that's not the problem. According to mpucoder, some players have a hard time synchronizing (and probably playing) subtitles if they're not muxed properly, this might be the case, but it's not easy to check. You might need a demux/remux job...
jeanl

[jsoto]

You could use jsoto's CutFile tool to cut only a portion of the vob so it's not too big.You can use pgcDemux and easily create a custom PGC VOB (non-playable, for sure), saving the Nav and the sub packs only. This produces a very small file will all the required info.
jsoto

[jeanl]

That's true, I didn't think of that! Great! I might have some problems if there's no video though (no PAL/NTSC indication, no video size), but that's a good way to do it.
Jeanl

[Zeul]

jeanl
The video standard could be derived from the BCD cell time in the navpk. At least the video standard would be known. perhaps also just demux the very first I frame of the VOB for video resolution in addition to the nav & subs.

[jeanl]

Zeul, that's already what I do. I only analyze the first I-frame, none of the subsequent video frames... But it's true that I can get the standard from the navpacks.
jeanl

[Sajan]

I have a question for you dedicated users :D
I've had a couple requests to add regular movie playback so the subs show as the movie plays. That's relatively easy with the preview code (based on dvd2avi), but the problem is, it's without audio!!!! My feeling is that it's nearly useless if you can't hear the audio at the same time you see the subs. How else would you check good synchronization...
Do you guys agree?
If you do, I probably won't implement the "playback" idea.... Not until dvd2avi can playback audio (which isn't in a while!).
jeanl
What about using part of Media Player Classic as DVD previewer (with audio)?

[jeanl]

Yeah, they're all possibilities. I'm just a bit scared by the potential added complexity...
jeanl

[frank]

@jeanl
Some sub streams are not carefully mastered.
There are subtitles and the actor speaks the text in the translated audio track.

I want to disable those subtitles. How to do?
I think changing the sub stream id of an selected subtitle to an unused value is a good method.

After dvd copy with DvdShrink/CloneDVD this subs are fully deleted.

Can you implement this feature?

[jeanl]

Beta 0.75 of DVDSubEdit is now available here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/)...

Here's the change log from beta 0.73

The spu duration can now be changed. DVDSubEdit makes sure the subpics don't step on each others.
Improved the display behavior when the input file is being scanned (no more flickering).
Added code to pick the colors for the default Color LookUp Table. These are saved in the settings.
The spu PTS (presentation) time is now displayed.
Fixed a bug that caused the wrong transparency values to be displayed when several DCSQTs were present (thanks kumi!)
Fixed a bug that caused the transparency for the background to be changed in some cases when it should not have been.


As usual, feedback is welcome on this thread!
jeanl

[kumi]

Tested 0.75 and modifying contrast values works as expected, thanks jeanl.

My problem with MPC not displaying my subs is a bug in the internal MPEG2 Video transform filter, Gabest is going to look into it.

[jeanl]

Great!
jeanl

[jeanl]

Beta 0.76 of DVDSubEdit is now available here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/)...

Here's the change log from beta 0.75

Added code to select which DCSQT to view and modify. This will allow you to visualize fade-in/fade-out subtitles.
Added code to parse and display the (exceedingly rare) CHG_COLCON command.
The "apply to all" dialog was not initialized properly in some cases, this has been fixed.
The modifications were not really saved until the app was closed. This has been fixed.


As usual, feedback is welcome on this thread!
jeanl

[frank]

Many thanks! :D

But my question remains: Howto disable or delete a selected sub? (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=766293#post766293)

Regards
frank

[r0lZ]

Set it to all transparent!

[jeanl]

Set it to all transparent!
I couldn't have said it better! :D
But of course, the subpic packs will remain in the vob.
I missed your original message, sorry! Your idea of setting a different stream ID is possible, and in that case, you're right, they would be removed when you process with shrink. The problem is that it's no entirely legit, unless I add the stream in the IFO, and it's kind of silly to do all this so you can physically remove a few subpic packs (the space saved by that is totally negligible).
I think you're better off with r0lZ solution of making it entirely transparent (select "All pixels" and move the slider to the left). Apply to the next subpic with the keyboard short-cut Cltr-V, etc....
jeanl

[frank]

Yeah! r0lZ solution of making is transparently it is a good idea.
Thanks!

[odbo2005]

Nice tool!

Is it possible to add a function for change subpicture color vlaue(e1,e2,p,b)?
Because change the palette will Influence menu button color.

[jeanl]

odbo2005,
The palette is defined on a per-PGC basis (you get 1 palette per PGC), so you can easily change it without altering your menu button colors which are defined in the PGC of the menus. Am I understanding you right?
jeanl

[odbo2005]

Thx jeanl,you are right!I never think about it.

But if we can change some subpicture color in same id streem,
for example deaf note,song,and no need remux.Is'nt it wonderfoul!

[laserfan]

Feature request: It would be nice to be able to automatically delete whole subpics, lines in subpics/parts of subpics with text for hearing impaired (wrapped in brackets, [ ]) and/or lyrics for music (wrapped in musical notes).

...most region 1 DVDs the English subtitles are made for the deaf or hearing impaired, i.e. with lots of descriptions of background sounds etc., which I find very distracting not being a deaf or hearing impaired person.

So I'd like to be able to easily remove these parts, without having to demux/remux first (it takes too long and too much work) and without having to manually edit the bitmap subs (it would spoil the movie experience to go through the dialogue manually before watching the movie itself).

I realize that it would probably take some kind of OCR implementation...I can't believe how well CoNS has nailed my own unhappiness with R1 subtitles. My wife, though English-speaking, has trouble both hearing and with accents, so wants to use subtitles which can be VERY distracting for me what with all the sound effects appearing onscreen & whatnot. I guess it's been stated that OCR is nontrivial to do at best, but man would such a feature make life better for us!

Right now I have to extract-and-OCR the subs, edit-out all the sound effects and music, and then re-create and re-mux the subs, which no longer look nearly as good as the originals, and don't (also) have the original on-screen positions (recent example: The Constant Gardener which nicely places subtitles around the screen where they're least obtrusive). CoNS is surely right, too, about this long effort "spoiling the experience" for me!

I'd seen the original post for this tool and thought it only good for re-positioning and re-coloring. But now I'm going to give it a go for hiding stuff--looks wildly easier than the process I'm using now!!!

[jeanl]

Yes laserfan, it's not automatic (as cons would have liked) but it sure is easier than what you're going through!!! Simply move the transparency slider to the left, and the subtitle is gone (make sure you select "all pixel" in the drop-down). For the subsequent ones, you can simply do Ctrl-V so it should be easy to sail through the subtitles with the arrow key, stop at an undesirable one, Ctrl-V, and go on... Turn the video display off to make it faster.

jeanl

[jeanl]

Offer:
If you guys feel like writing a module that can detect "sound effect" subtitles, I could put that into the app! I would pass the bitmap in a very simple format, and the module would return Yes or No (keep or discard).
If you guys feel enclined to do this kind of stuff, please go ahead! It would be a nice pattern-recognition project (not quite OCR, but close)...
jeanl

[jeanl]

But if we can change some subpicture color in same id streem,
for example deaf note,song,and no need remux.Is'nt it wonderfoul!
You're right, I didn't think of that. This would enable you to change the color of your subpics on a subtitle per subtitle basis... That could be nice. I'll look into it.
Jeanl

[laserfan]

Yes laserfan, it's not automatic (as cons would have liked) but it sure is easier than what you're going through!!! ... Turn the video display off to make it faster.jeanl I have just tried your tool on "The Constant Gardener" and am amazed by how easy it was! Wow! Great stuff, congratulations. I did manage partway thru the process (almost 1600 subpics) to get the display out-of-whack somehow (detached from the DVDSubEdit window), but instead of losing my work I managed to save and restart just fine.

Regarding the "automatic removal" of [Laughing] and [Coughing] and [Singing] and such, I do see that this would be somewhat problematic in many instances, as these things don't always occur alone. They oft times appear in conjunction with real dialog that you want to keep. So I guess I have to back-off on my interest in this; at least I don't see how you could selectively delete portions of the subpic...

Thanks though for this very slick addition to the toolkit!

P.S. The video disply is lots of fun--almost like reading a picture book... I like it.

[jeanl]

You're welcome. About the screwed up display, this happens to me once in a while. I'm not sure what's responsible for that, although I know it's related to the display of the background video...
Not sure how to go about fixing that stuff. argh...
Yes, I like going trough the movie simply reading the subtitles and looking at the pictures! You're right, kind of like a "bande dessinee" as they say in french (cartoon, comics).
jeanl

[laserfan]

...About the screwed up display... I'm not sure what's responsible for that, although I know it's related to the display of the background video...I've got a few things going here at once so I'm not sure if I'd run anything behind it or not.

I should not have posted when I'm this tired--rather than ditching the "automatic" idea altogether, it would still be very useful if someone wrote a routine to find the brackets & the musical notes--then we could use it to skip ahead to whereever they appeared, and decide (manually) whether to ditch the entire subpic, or leave it alone. But you knew that...

Merci!

[r0lZ]

Suggestion: As your tool seems to be widely used to hide some subpics, could you add an "Hide current subpic" button to do it easily?

[CoNS]

Offer:
If you guys feel like writing a module that can detect "sound effect" subtitles, I could put that into the app! I would pass the bitmap in a very simple format, and the module would return Yes or No (keep or discard).
If you guys feel enclined to do this kind of stuff, please go ahead! It would be a nice pattern-recognition project (not quite OCR, but close)...
jeanlI sure feel like it, but unfortunately I have absolutely no programming skills... :scared: However, it sure would be extremely nice to have such feature. Would you consider putting it on your maybe-to-do list, jeanl, maybe in a footnote somewhere?! Pretty please?! With sugar on top?! (however, jeanl, though I don't have any programming skills, I do realize that such feature is not just so easy to implement!! But you know... You may get bored in those long dark and cold winter nights!)

at least I don't see how you could selectively delete portions of the subpic...Well, on most region 1 DVDs the text for the hearing impaired is wrapped in those brackets, so that the hearing impaired text starts with "[" and ends with "]". And similar with lyrics, which are usually wrapped in musical notes. So the removal of such stuff may be done through some kind of "simplified" OCR routine, reckognizing the brackets (or musical notes), and then making the graphical area of the subtitles all transparent between those brackets etc. This would make it possible to automatically deal with subpics containing both normal text and text for hearing impaired/lyrics. For example a subpic reading "[Loud noise from the toilet] Peter, is that you?"...!

About the "simplified" OCR part: Maybe it would help if the user could select/specify the first of such characters (brackets, musical notes) in the present subtitle stream, so that the program could run through the rest of the stream looking for such characters and deal with them accordingly? Either automatically delete them (and all text in between) or "just" point the user to subpics containing such characters for the user to deal with it manually.

Personally, I think that it ruins a lot of the movie experience when I go through all the subpics first, to manually detect and delete that unwanted text for the hearing impaired. This way I have to look at a lot of the dialogue beforehand, and it's not so fun to have seen the ending dialogue etc. before watching the entire movie!!

[r0lZ]

Do you need to do it frequently? Here in Europe, there is a standard english subpics stream in almost all DVDs, and, sometimes, another one for hard of hearing.
Also, it is often possible to download an english subpic file from the net. Of course, it must be converted and remuxed, and sometimes resynchronized, but it's easier to do than reading everything to remove the [noises], even with the excellent DVDSubEdit.

@jeanl: I think SubRip is open source. If you need to do OCR, you can probably use his routine...

[CoNS]

Do you need to do it frequently? Here in Europe, there is a standard english subpics stream in almost all DVDs, and, sometimes, another one for hard of hearing.True, about region 2 versions. However, for various reasons I watch a large number of region 1 DVDs. They usually come out a long time before the region 2 releases, and they're cheaper, too. I can easily understand the dialogue from the English subtitles, but I do need the English subtitles as English is not my native language.

Also, it is often possible to download an english subpic file from the net. Of course, it must be converted and remuxed, and sometimes resynchronized, but it's easier to do than reading everything to remove the [noises], even with the excellent DVDSubEdit.From the programmer's point of view, yes. But not from the user's point of view if it could be implemented in the truly excellent DVDSubEdit! :D

[laserfan]

Last night my first exercise in DVDSubEdit-ing ended in complete success, having modified the English "for hearing impaired" track (by making many subpics transparent), and then re-muxed the DVD with BOTH tracks, and it all worked nicely. Great stuff.

This morning I was admiring my handiwork on my Pinnacle ShowCenter (streaming media) player, across the network to my VIDEO_TS set on the MediaPC, and both tracks look exactly the same! Apparently (obviously) the Pinnacle doesn't respect the CLUT settings of a VTS and displays subtitles in a pre-determined fashion, so "deleting a subpic" by making it transparent doesn't work for this player. I don't watch DVDs on my ShowCenters, so this is not an issue for me, but thought I would relate it here as a point-of-interest.

[jeanl]

Last night my first exercise in DVDSubEdit-ing ended in complete success, having modified the English "for hearing impaired" track (by making many subpics transparent), and then re-muxed the DVD with BOTH tracks, and it all worked nicely. Great stuff.

Do you mean to say that you created 2 tracks from 1? The original one + another with only the "useful" subpics? You maniac!

This morning I was admiring my handiwork on my Pinnacle ShowCenter (streaming media) player, across the network to my VIDEO_TS set on the MediaPC, and both tracks look exactly the same! Apparently (obviously) the Pinnacle doesn't respect the CLUT settings of a VTS and displays subtitles in a pre-determined fashion, so "deleting a subpic" by making it transparent doesn't work for this player. I don't watch DVDs on my ShowCenters, so this is not an issue for me, but thought I would relate it here as a point-of-interest.
mmm This sounds like a bug. The transparency isn't located in the CLUT, it's in the subpic packs. If the player still shows subpics that are marked transparent, there's something really wrong (it's most definitely not the player's fault). You should check that the subpics are indeed transparent on a soft player, (and of course in DVDSubEdit). Then if you're sure they are, but they still show in your other player, something is really fishy!

jeanl

[jeanl]

Do you need to do it frequently? Here in Europe, there is a standard english subpics stream in almost all DVDs, and, sometimes, another one for hard of hearing.

I can confirm that in R1, we get a lot of [eerie music], [foot steps] in the "normal" english subpic track.


@jeanl: I think SubRip is open source. If you need to do OCR, you can probably use his routine...
Excellent idea!
jeanl

[jeanl]

Suggestion: As your tool seems to be widely used to hide some subpics, could you add an "Hide current subpic" button to do it easily?
Yes, I thought about that yesterday (funny, now?). I think I'll do that.
jeanl

[jeanl]

I sure feel like it, but unfortunately I have absolutely no programming skills... :scared: However, it sure would be extremely nice to have such feature. Would you consider putting it on your maybe-to-do list, jeanl, maybe in a footnote somewhere?! Pretty please?! With sugar on top?! (however, jeanl, though I don't have any programming skills, I do realize that such feature is not just so easy to implement!! But you know... You may get bored in those long dark and cold winter nights!)

I like the challenge! I'll look into it. :)

Well, on most region 1 DVDs the text for the hearing impaired is wrapped in those brackets, so that the hearing impaired text starts with "[" and ends with "]". And similar with lyrics, which are usually wrapped in musical notes. So the removal of such stuff may be done through some kind of "simplified" OCR routine, reckognizing the brackets (or musical notes), and then making the graphical area of the subtitles all transparent between those brackets etc. This would make it possible to automatically deal with subpics containing both normal text and text for hearing impaired/lyrics. For example a subpic reading "[Loud noise from the toilet] Peter, is that you?"...!

About the "simplified" OCR part: Maybe it would help if the user could select/specify the first of such characters (brackets, musical notes) in the present subtitle stream, so that the program could run through the rest of the stream looking for such characters and deal with them accordingly? Either automatically delete them (and all text in between) or "just" point the user to subpics containing such characters for the user to deal with it manually.

These are all good ideas...

Personally, I think that it ruins a lot of the movie experience when I go through all the subpics first, to manually detect and delete that unwanted text for the hearing impaired. This way I have to look at a lot of the dialogue beforehand, and it's not so fun to have seen the ending dialogue etc. before watching the entire movie!!
I absolutely agree. I don't like looking at subtitles before watching the movie.
jeanl

[laserfan]

...The transparency isn't located in the CLUT, it's in the subpic packs. If the player still shows subpics that are marked transparent, there's something really wrong (it's most definitely not the player's fault). You should check that the subpics are indeed transparent on a soft player, (and of course in DVDSubEdit). Then if you're sure they are, but they still show in your other player, something is really fishy!Thanks jeanl, but the only thing "fishy" here is the Pinnacle player I think. Note again it is NOT a DVD player--and although it does have a way to switch between the subtitle tracks in a VOB, for some reason it uses its own coloration to display them rather than read the info "in the subpic packs". At least that's my best guess about it, having read others' complaints about how the Pinnacle doesn't always do well by subtitles. In any case I will check later with my SC200, a newer version of the SC1000 I was looking at this a.m. I'll bet its subtitle display looks different yet again from the 1000.

[jeanl]

amazing... How can that work? At least the transparency has to be honored, because the subtitle background HAS to be transparent (otherwise you'd see a big black rectangle around your subpics), so the player at least knows how to honor that...
Keep me posted.
Jeanl

[frank]

Originally Posted by odbo2005
But if we can change some subpicture color in same id streem,... We need it!

The new mastered special edition of Titanic PAL2 includes 2 discs. I've merged the two on a double layer disc into a single Pgc, but the idiots have used different colours for subtitles!!!:scared:
Now the first part has white subs, and the second one dark yellow subs.

DVDSubEdit can only show the color values but not edit.
Please help!

[r0lZ]

You must edit the colors in the IFO, not in the VOBs. The VOB contains only the color indexes, and the transparency levels. The color table is in the IFO.

Note the color index shown by DVDSubEdit, then load the DVD in PgcEdit, double-click on the title's PGC to open the PGC Editor, and edit the colors. (Remember that the first color, il the upper left corner, is color index 0, not 1!) Save. That's all.

Anyway, I agree. It should be possible to change the color indexes in DVDSubEdit. Jeanl?

[laserfan]

My Pinnacle ShowCenter media players don't respect transparency:
amazing... How can that work? At least the transparency has to be honored, because the subtitle background HAS to be transparent (otherwise you'd see a big black rectangle around your subpics), so the player at least knows how to honor that... Keep me posted.Jeanl I have no idea why this is the case with the Pinnacle (Sigma Designs-based chipsets) players. I tried my newest SC200 w/EM8620L and it does the same thing--the subtitles marked Transparent are still visible.

The same DVD when played in a DVD player works just fine, it's only when I play a VOB w/the media players that the hidden subtitles are visible.

As I said I don't watch DVDs with these players--there is a pause between VOBs and onscreen display of "Now playing VTS_01_04.VOB" so it's ugly. But I know there are folks who rip their DVDs to single, large VOB files and play them over their networks--I suppose there might be a very tiny few users who might encounter this odd behavior... I doubt it has anything whatever to do w/DVDSubEdit but is likely an idiosyncracy of the way the player displays subs.

This is otherwise a great system BTW (the Pinnacle) -- can't tell you how much fun I've had with it...

[frank]

:goodpost:
Thanks r0lZ, I have solved the problem!

They used two different colour tables and different indexes in the VOBs. So I could match the Pgc colour table up with the indexes to get same resulting colours.

God save PgcEdit! :D

[jeanl]

Anyway, I agree. It should be possible to change the color indexes in DVDSubEdit. Jeanl?
yes yes, it will come soon... :)
jeanl

[CoNS]

I can confirm that in R1, we get a lot of [eerie music], [foot steps] in the "normal" english subpic track.Yeah, it's more the rule than the exception. It varies how much of the hearing impaired stuff they put in the main English subtitle stream, but I'd say that it's in 9 out of 10 region 1 DVDs...

The last couple of days I've tested two randomly chosen R1 DVDs with English subtitles for the hearing impaired.

On the first disc there were both a lot of explanatory text (wrapped in brackets []) and lyrics for songs (wrapped in musical notes). When watching the movie I could see that the subtitles for the hearing impaired actually appeared in many different ways during the movie, which probably makes it extremely difficult if not pratically impossible to automate a removal process in DVDSubEdit. However, I still hope for a solution in DVDSubEdit to do an automatic detection of the subpics with the hearing impaired text via OCR. This gives at least the user the choice to (manually) remove/make transparent that entire subpic, if the user wants that. Maybe it would even (phase 2!) be possible to let the user graphically select the unwanted area of those detected subpics and make that selected area all transparent etc.

Below are some examples from the first R1 movie I tested (I saved the subpics using SubtitleCreator's Manipulate SUP tool). This is the most simple version of subpics with text for the hearing impaired, and once it's detected it should be easy to deal with by deleting it completely (set to all transparent):

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/4166/sup0004x306y308w106h0308xc.png (http://imageshack.us)

This one I would also like to be delete entirely. However, unlike the first one it's written in italic, perhaps making it hard for the detecting routine in DVDSubEdit:

http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/9716/sup0003x197y384w332h0329di.png (http://imageshack.us)

Here's a similar unwanted subpic with lyrics, wrapped in musical notes:

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/9433/sup0054x222y353w272h0626qk.png (http://imageshack.us)

The unwanted text for the hearing impaired also appears in subpics with more than one line, like the one below. Here the entire first line should somehow be deleted (set to all transparent), but not the second line:

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/6825/sup0030x278y352w162h0581cn.png (http://imageshack.us)

With the example below, it's getting somewhat more tricky. How should the hearing impaired text be dealt with here? Maybe set everything to transparent between (and including) the brackets, too? However, on the disc the subtitles are centered (like DVD subtitles usually are), and this would make the first of the two subtitle lines uncentered. But, ok, this is a detail that one could live with!

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/2049/sup0012x187y352w352h0645gg.png (http://imageshack.us)

Only, when a dialogue between two people is displayed in one subpic, there's usually a dash (-) in front of the text, causing the subpic to look somewhat strange if the brackets and the text in between were removed in the example below. The solution could be to let DVDSubEdit cut the unwanted bitmap area, and sort of bring the dash in closer connect with the rest of the text in that line, but now that's just more than tricky, right?!

http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/2037/sup0015x194y352w330h0647sq.png (http://imageshack.us)

Here's an example with unwanted lyrics with musical notes between a dash and normal text. Same problem here. Also, notice the inconsistant use of the musical notes, making it virtually impossible to create an automatic removal process in DVDSubEdit. Some manual bitmap editing (in DVDSubEdit?) seems to be needed:

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/8307/sup0055x245y352w230h0588px.png (http://imageshack.us)

Here's another tricky example. The lower line of this subpic should be deleted (set to transparent), but then the remaining one line would be up there, looking all funny, when all the other one-line subpics are placed at the bottom line:

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/6524/sup0172x293y352w132h0629vj.png (http://imageshack.us)

And finally an example where the entire subpic should be deleted. But an automatic removal process would probably keep the dashes in front of the unwanted text, which would be a mistake:

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/5611/sup0203x280y352w158h0641xc.png (http://imageshack.us)

I've also found a couple of examples in the second region 1 DVD I tested. Here the text for the hearing impaired is wrapped in parenthesis instead of the square brackets. So the detecting routine should be able to look for this too, and probably many other variants, which is why it may be smart to let the user select the graphical area of the characters that DVDSubEdit should look for. Also, I don't know if the different colours could confuse the OCR engine?

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/6905/sup0026x231y384w260h0326ws.png (http://imageshack.us)

The last example from the second movie shows the exact same problem as mentioned above, with the unwanted text for the hearing impaired located between a dash and the normal text:

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/6126/sup0216x193y344w334h0721zy.png (http://imageshack.us)

So, whaddaya say, Jean? Are you still up for the challenge? I really do hope so, but I'd sure understand if you're not... :scared:

[laserfan]

...So, whaddaya say, Jean? Are you still up for the challenge?If he is, you know you just signed-up for alpha/beta testing!!! Save those examples!!!

[jeanl]

CoNS, you did an amazing preliminary job!!! Awesome! Kind of the require preliminary phase of any good research project. Scope of the problem, etc etc... Excellent! Your work shows the variety we can expect to find in subpics, and that's worrysome...
I don't have much hope for an automated and reliable way to remove them, but I think it could probably be semi-automatic, requiring a minimal amount of work from the user (who would no longer have to look at all the subpics, spoiling the movie as we all agree).
It's an interesting problem, and I think a first shot would be to use OCR, even if it's overkill, it would save a lot of effort.
- In fact, that's one thing you can do CoNS! Can you run the OCR part of subrip on these subs, and see what you get? Can it correctly identify brackets, and parentheses? Can it identify music notes (I doubt it!).
- Given a semantic description of the subpic (provided by OCR), it's much much easier to blank parts of the subtitle (I'm imagining setting all the pixel types in the given area to "b" or whatever transparent pixel type is used, that wouldn't be too hard).
- But recentering them would be harder as this requires recoding the subpics nearly from scratch. Not impossible, but harder.

So you see CoNS, you signed yourself up for more than alpha/beta testing!
:D :D :D
Jeanl
P.S. I won't start on that feature for a while. Here's what I have on my plate at the moment:
- changing the colors
- re-timing subtitles (adjusting the delay).

The second one is quite tricky, but I'm slowly getting there!
jeanl

[r0lZ]

- In fact, that's one thing you can do CoNS! Can you run the OCR part of subrip on these subs, and see what you get? Can it correctly identify brackets, and parentheses? Can it identify music notes (I doubt it!).SubRip is unable to identify anything! You have to type the character on the keyboard the first time it is encountered. Then, it will be recognized.
BTW, where the hell is the music note on a QWERTY keyboard? :D

[jeanl]

Really???? You mean, they don't have a real OCR routine in there? The user has to teach it?
Jeanl

[r0lZ]

Yes. :(
But I think it's not really a problem for you. It should be easy to ask the user to locate one subpic with the characters used to enclose the captions, and then select the right character with any method (graphically, or via a little GUI).

[CoNS]

I'm glad if I can help in any way. As I previously said, I would love to be able to program such a feature myself, but I can't! But please, by all means, if there's some work, trivial or not, that I can do to help, let me know.

Anyway, r0lZ is right about SubRip: When you start an OCR process on a subpic stream, you have to specify each character it comes across, but only once ofcourse!

However, when you're done you can save the obtained knowledge in the "character matrix". So next time you run the OCR process, SubRip tries to use the data in the character matrix to reckognize the characters. If they differ too much from any of the characters saved in the character matrix, you are again asked to specify which character it is. So the more DVDs you have tried, the better the program gets at automatically reckognizing the characters.

The author of SubRip, ai4spam, has uploaded a copy of his character matrix to his homepage. See the bottom of this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=646711#post646711).

[laserfan]

...Can...the OCR part of subrip...correctly identify brackets, and parentheses? Can it identify music notes (I doubt it!).In my experience SubRip has a particularly difficult time w/italics, and especially italicized musical notes.

But since DVDSubEdit and its ilk are akin to "magic" to me anyway, I have great confidence that the talented people here will find a solution! :D

[jeanl]

Beta 0.80 of DVDSubEdit is now available here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/)...


http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/566/dvdsubedit4zk.png (http://imageshack.us)


The main change is the added support for re-timing subtitles. This is still experimental, so be careful and make sure you have a backup of your VOB and IFO files.
The new re-timing function allows you to change the timing of an individual or a group of subtitles.
Re-timing subtitles becomes slower as you move them by a large amound (in seconds). Note that the IFO file is also modified (because packs have to be moved around).


Here's the change log from beta 0.76

Added retiming of subpics..
Added button to quickly hide a subpic.
Improved the refresh speed of the command display.


As usual, feedback is welcome on this thread!
jeanl

[jeanl]

Following our discussion of automatic detection of hearing impaired subs, I looked at this:
http://jocr.sourceforge.net/examples.html
(a gnu OCR package). I was able to make it work well on a simple example or subtitle extracted from a DVD. I had to adjust a few parameters unfortunately, but it worked OK. CoNS, maybe you could take a look at it, see if it works well with the examples you compiled!
jeanl
P.S. I did a few more tests, with an added feature to DVDSubEdit (saving subpic as ppm which makes testing much easier). So far, on my small test, I get just about 99% accuracy, with no learning whatsoever! I have to adjust the color/transparencies though, the ocr want characters that are full, not outlined. But it's quite impressive so far!

[CoNS]

Sure! Should I just load the GOCR v0.40 Windows Frontend from the SourceForge page, or do I need a modified version from you? You changed the parameters?

[phusg]

Just a quick post to say a huge thank you to JeanL for developing this superb application! YOU ARE THE MAN JEANL!!!! Much appreciated over here in Utrecht, the Netherlands.

I just tried 0.80 for the first time and moving subpics down and out of the way has just become (at least!) an order of magnitude faster than before, what with all that tedious CPU/HD guzzling demuxing etc etc.

Three cheers for jeanl, hip hip ...

[jeanl]

@CoNS, I just used the command line version, no change in the default parameters. It's easier with the command line: I save with DVDSubEdit always into the same file, then switch to the command window and repeat the gocr call. I had to use and change the default CLUT in PGCEdit, setting everything to white except for e2 in my particular case (yours would be different, this will be a bit of a challenge). I have a version of DVDSubEdit that saves the bitmap to a ppm, if you want it, send me an email at jeanldvd at free dot fr.

@phusg, you're welcome man!
jeanl

[jeanl]

Beta 0.81 of DVDSubEdit is now available here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/)...

This is mainly a bug fix in the re-timing routine. If you plan on changing the timing of your subpics, use 0.81 instead of 0.80.

[jeanl]

Beta 0.81 of DVDSubEdit is now available here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/)...

This is mainly a bug fix in the re-timing routine. If you plan on changing the timing of your subpics, use 0.81 instead of 0.80.

[JFerguson]

Does this work on a mounted ISO (if I just want to view the streams...)?

[jeanl]

No, unfortunately, DVDSubEdit insists on being able to modify the VOB (but that could be changed) and an ISO is read-only. Besides, if it's encrypted....
jeanl

[JFerguson]

Ok, I just copied the VOBs to another folder and took the read-only flag off -- seems to be working. The ISO was decrypted initially via DVD Decrypter...

Yeah, this worked. I was trying to figure out the subtitle sets for an infinifilm title. Set #1 came up as a bunch of green rectangles (for the inifinifilm BOVs, I guess?). Set #2 was Fact Track + infinifilm and Set #3 was just the infinifilm stuff.

Neat...

[JFerguson]

Hi jeanl.

I just checked another DVD, "Four Brothers" R1. I was curious as to what SubPicture 3 (French) was used for -- it appears to be forced subpics for when the French audio track is used.

For 0x24,0x25 it says there are 27 SPUs. I browsed them... the only subpicture I saw was at the title sequence - "Quatre Freres". At this stop, that dropdown towards the bottom changed to "Forced Start". All others were "Normal Start".

I guess that all makes sense, but I don't know why/what the other 26 SPUs are?

It would be cool if we could launch this against an ISO...otherwise, this tool is cool!

[jeanl]

Thanks JFerguson.
I plan on changing that (that it won't load a read-only), so you can look at your subpics, if not modify them!
Indeed, the forced start indicates forced subpics (i.e., even if the subpics are not "on" but the stream is selected, the subpics will show). I've seen many cases of "empty" subpics (to check that they're really empty, change the transparency to 15 for "All" in case they're actually transparent-as for buttons). They could be button highlights, but DVDSubEdit would have shown buttons on the video display...
jeanl

[jeanl]

Beta 0.82 of DVDSubEdit WITH OCR! is now available here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEditBeta0.82.zip)...

This is an unofficial version for the people who would like to test OCR. I've integrated the GOCR code, which seems to run exceptionnally well on the DVDs I've tested. You can't do much yet, except display the OCR by pressing the key 'O' (as in OCR). This toggles the OCR on and off. Then the results of the OCR are displayed in a little window at the bottom right...
Give it a shot and tell me what you think (CoNS and the others interested to detect "[" etc). In my experience, it does very well with [,],(,) but of course, it does not with music notes (although you can add a database to it!).

You might run into problems (i.e. no recognition, very slow) if the color of your subpics is weird. DVDSubEdit has to guess which pixel type represents the body of the characters (there's no standard here of course), and it looks at the CLUT for that (it currently picks the clearer non-background pixel). It's worked fine for me in all my (limited) tests, but you tell me...
Going to bed now!
Jeanl
EDIT: corrected the link, thanks bourtzovlakas

[bourtzovlakas]

The link above, points to 0.80 beta...
The correct link is...
http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEditBeta0.82.zip

[blutach]

LOL - that "old out-of-date" 0.80 beta is now almost 48 hours old!!!

Regards

[CoNS]

Beta 0.82 of DVDSubEdit WITH OCR! is now availablewOOt?! That's ... like ... awesome! Thanks a lot, will test this weekend and keep you updated. :)

[jeanl]

wOOt?! That's ... like ... awesome!
tooootally!
:D
jeanl

[laserfan]

...I've integrated the GOCR code, which seems to run exceptionnally well on the DVDs I've tested.This is really unexpected jeanl! I just tried it on Cinderella Man, a typical "sound effects" subtitle track, and it missed just one space in the many subtitles I looked at!

One problem though--this disc frequently has 3 lines of subs on it, and the little OCR box only displays 2 lines. I don't know what the right size is, but this sure is a darn good-and-promising start...

:)

[jeanl]

Thanks laserfan, you should thank GOCR's author, Joerg Schulenburg, I'm really impressed by how well it works, right out of the box!
I'll make sure DVDSubEdit can display more than 2 lines, but the UI is bound to change when I add the nice search functions etc...
jeanl

[laserfan]

...I'll make sure DVDSubEdit can display more than 2 lines, but the UI is bound to change when I add the nice search functions etc...Yeah, that was a really (uncharacteristically) dumb comment on my part! :eek:

I guess I was just excited to see such quick action on your part to even look-into the OCR question, much less throw something together for us to look at!

Have a great weekend...

[CoNS]

Jean, would it be possible to add a save-current-subpic-as-bmp/png/jpg-file function/button?

Maybe even at some point a save-selected-subpicstream-as-sup-file function? (i.e. a subpic stream demuxing function...)

[jeanl]

@laserfan, no problem man! I didn't think that was a dumb comment!
@CoNS, I already have a "save as ppm" (not as png though), it's just not connected to the UI :), and the save as sup seems quite easy, I guess I could do it. What would be the use for it, simply demux selected subpix?
jeanl

[jeanl]

Unofficial beta 0.83 of DVDSubEdit is now available here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEditBeta0.83.zip)...
I've added a menu for the OCR stuff. After opening the vob file(s), run the OCR on the selected subpics. Then you can use the "find" feature in the same menu.
This is experimental, play with it and let me know.
I plan on reworking the UI to make room for more stuff, color changing, selecting SPUs based on OCR content etc...
Jeanl

[nwg]

The search works well. It has found everything I put in the search box.

[jeanl]

Yeah! It's pretty cool. I have 1 DVD where the recognition does not work well (Monty Python holy grail, R1)... Other than that, it works fine. Except when you try to feed it button highlights! :D
Jeanl

[jsoto]

and the save as sup seems quite easy, I guess I could do it. It's quite easy, but be careful with the PTSs...
jsoto

[Mtz]

I was fighting with some problems for me regarding the subtitles position. Choosing directly for example the option "4:3 Safe Area", never changed the subtitles position. Also if using the up and down buttons. It worked for me only if I manually put the value (for example 38) and pressing enter. After this when I press the "Apply to All selected", DVDSubEdit changed the position for me.
But the subtiles are not at the same position if are using characters like "nrsou" vs "pq"
Screenshots attached.
Original subtitles are at the same bottom position
[img=http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/6163/subtitle13lu.th.jpg] (http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=subtitle13lu.jpg) [img=http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/4360/subtitle29xk.th.jpg] (http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=subtitle29xk.jpg)

Modded subtiltes are not at the same bottom position because of "p and q"
[img=http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/2678/subtitle115bw.th.jpg] (http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=subtitle115bw.jpg) [img=http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/124/subtitle222xy.th.jpg] (http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=subtitle222xy.jpg)

Also if I try to use custom position like 32 for "subpic position" and 20 for "borders" nothing changed.

enjoy,
Mtz

[jeanl]

I was fighting with some problems for me regarding the subtitles position. Choosing directly for example the option "4:3 Safe Area", never changed the subtitles position.

Well, it could be that your subpics are already in the safe area (they really should be if your original is a 4:3 DVD). Sometimes it's hard to see whether the subpics are moved or not. Don't forget that if you change the borders (using 4:3 for example) you have to "apply to all" for this to apply to all subtitles.
Also if using the up and down buttons. It worked for me only if I manually put the value (for example 38) and pressing enter. After this when I press the "Apply to All selected", DVDSubEdit changed the position for me.

Well I just tried again, and this works for me. Using the up/down buttons (both for the position or the borders) moves the subpic (or the red border line). This is very strange. This does not work for you?

But the subtiles are not at the same position if are using characters like "nrsou" vs "pq"
Screenshots attached.
Original subtitles are at the same bottom position
[img=http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/6163/subtitle13lu.th.jpg] (http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=subtitle13lu.jpg) [img=http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/4360/subtitle29xk.th.jpg] (http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=subtitle29xk.jpg)

Modded subtiltes are not at the same bottom position because of "p and q"
[img=http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/2678/subtitle115bw.th.jpg] (http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=subtitle115bw.jpg) [img=http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/124/subtitle222xy.th.jpg] (http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=subtitle222xy.jpg)

Yes, that's "normal" (if not entirely desirable). DVDSubEdit isn't that smart that it can tell where the bottom of a "q" really is. It adjusts the subtitle so the bottom of the "q" (the last pixel at the bottom) is moved above the red line. It does the same for all subtitles, so if there's no "p" "g" or "q" in the line, the line will be moved a bit less..

Also if I try to use custom position like 32 for "subpic position" and 20 for "borders" nothing changed.

Here's how the borders work: when you adjust the borders position with the slider or arrow, the red lines move up or down. DVDSubEdit will move subtitles so they fit entirely between the two red lines. If you move your subtitle up toward the middle of the image, then moving the borders will do nothing, since the subtitle is alreay between the two red lines.
Is there something confusing about this?
Jeanl

[Teebeeke]

Not to sound like a complete idiot, but what is the purpose of the OCR part ?

I also asume the save file to text hasnt been implemented yet.

[CoNS]

Jean, generally in the GUI, it think the term "selected" (as in "Apply to all selected" etc.) is a bit confusing. Thus, at first sight you'd think that you're able to select just some of the subpics (within a stream) and apply to those etc. But what you mean is "Apply to all subpics in selected subpic stream" etc., right? Could you clarify this in the button text etc. (or at least in the tooltips)?

I plan on reworking the UI to make room for more stuff, color changing, selecting SPUs based on OCR content etc...In the current GUI, I think you could easily reduce the size of the "Current subpic info" window. This info is not very relevant for most users, and thus you could save a lot of space in the GUI by making it a smaller window with an up/down scrollbar at the right side...

DVDSubEdit isn't that smart that it can tell where the bottom of a "q" really is. It adjusts the subtitle so the bottom of the "q" (the last pixel at the bottom) is moved above the red line. It does the same for all subtitles, so if there's no "p" "g" or "q" in the line, the line will be moved a bit less..I remember that Paddington had the same problem when making SubtitleCreator, and he somehow managed to solve it, AFAIK by computing the true baseline of the characters in the subtitles.

IMHO it's somewhat confusing to look at subtitles which move up and down for every other subpic, so for me the best way is to find the desired vertical position for one subpic, and then apply the +/- value to all subpics in the selected stream. Of course this only works really well for DVDs that don't have elevated subpics in between, but fortunately most DVDs don't.

I already have a "save as ppm" (not as png though), it's just not connected to the UI :)Would be nice to have in the GUI - even a keyboard shortcut would do for now!

the save as sup seems quite easy, I guess I could do it. What would be the use for it, simply demux selected subpix?Sometimes I need to extract (demux) the entire subpic stream which I just edited in DVDSubEdit for muxing into a different DVD (for example from a R1 NTSC DVD to use in a R2 PAL DVD of the same movie). I know it's a luxery thing, as I can just shut down DVDSubEdit and start up PgcDemux for this, but as DVDSubEdit is an overall DVD subpic editing tool I just thought it would be nice to have the function here, too... But it shouldn't have a high priority, I agree!

Yeah! It's pretty cool. I have 1 DVD where the recognition does not work well (Monty Python holy grail, R1)... Other than that, it works fine.I've tested the OCR function on a number of different DVDs the last couple of days, including the DVDs that I posted subpics from in a previous post in this thread. Overall, it works very well, and it's a most promising start for the OCR feature in DVDSubEdit. I know you say that the author of GOCR did a great job, but it's really cool that you have been able to integrate his work so easily into you application. Good job, very much appreciated.

Ok, the DVDs I tested used either white, light grey or yellow as the main subtitle colour. The OCR function seems to work equally well on these colours. And I'm impressed that it reckognizes characters like ñ, é, à etc. and even $. However, it deos have problems with "?" which is reckognized as "7." and strangely enough "!" always becomes "!."

I've noticed that not all commercial made subtitles have good anti-aliasing. SubtitleCreator actually does a much nicer job on this than many of the "official" subtitles. On my test DVDs with poor anti-aliasing, the OCR function had problems reckognizing some normal characters in normal formatting. For example "realize" became "reali_e", "30,000ft" became "30,000R", "$20" became "$l0" and "figure" became "_gure" etc. (these are examples from different test DVDs).

Small font sizes and a wide subtitle border of course seem to affect the ability to reckognize the characters in OCR function, as the characters in the subpics tend to merge in these cases.

In some cases it doesn't reckognize spaces, either. This is particularly a problem with italic text. Generally, there seems to be problems with italic characters in subpics. Many characters are not correctly reckognized and the square brackets "[" and "]" are reckognized as "(" and "J" - or "r and "J".

For example I have a subpic line in italic reading "- [Man] Welcome back, Maggie May." which becomes "- rmdnJWe/comebdck, mdg_iemd_" via OCR!!! And a subpic line in italic reading "[ Dogs Bark. Whine ]" became "rDo__B_rk, WhjneJ" via OCR! (from the same test DVD).

Wrt the music notes, the OCR function has severe problems. I know it can't reckognize the symbol, but for half the subpics with music notes, it simply doesn't give me any output at all (even though there are letters and other "normal" characters in the subpic, too).

Jean, I assume that the GOCR code gives you the ability to change some parameters for the OCR scan. Could you implement some of the more important parameters in an options sub menu or something for the OCR function? For further testing? Also, would it help to add a database to the OCR function?

Let me know if you want me to extract some of the subtitle streams from my test DVDs and mail them to you as SUP files. You could then mux them with random video and audio files for testing purposes, if you like.

I've added a menu for the OCR stuff. After opening the vob file(s), run the OCR on the selected subpics. Then you can use the "find" feature in the same menu.It may be slightly confusing that the menu title "Sub Text" is in two words in the menu line. Maybe you could just call it "OCR" (or "Text")? Also, I'm not sure if the "save sub text to file" function works? (where is the file saved and with what filename?)

BTW, Jean, in the small OCR window in the main window, I'm able to select the text with the mouse cursor, but CTRL+C doesn't seem to work? It would be nice to be able to copy from the text for posting examples here. As you use Arial as the font in the small OCR window, and as I can't get the save sub text function to work, I can't tell if the OCR function is able to differ between I and l, and between " and '' (two apostrophes) in the subpics, which are both common OCR problems. (For example SubRip has a post-correction function for this)

[CoNS]

Not to sound like a complete idiot, but what is the purpose of the OCR part?It's the first stage of a feature to remove unwanted parts of the subpics, for example text for the hearing impaired (typically wrapped in square brackets, [ and ]) or lyrics wrapped in music notes. This is very common with English subtitles on region 1 DVDs, and it's very annoying for people who are not deaf or hearing impaired but still need the subtitles in cases where the dialogue is hard to understand.

But it could also be used simply to locate a subpic inside a subpic stream that you want to alter. For example, you are watching your favorite DVD with subtitles turned on, and there's a single subpic somewhere which you want to get rid of or position elsewhere vertically etc. In order to find that specific subpic in DVDSubEdit, you can use the OCR function to search for it.

I also asume the save file to text hasnt been implemented yet.I think you're right about that.

[r0lZ]

IMHO it's somewhat confusing to look at subtitles which move up and down for every other subpic, so for me the best way is to find the desired vertical position for one subpic, and then apply the +/- value to all subpics in the selected stream. Of course this only works really well for DVDs that don't have elevated subpics in between, but fortunately most DVDs don't.Personally, I use a combination of the two methods. I move the subpic up with the move function, and then I set the border a little bit lower than the bottom line of the subpic. This way, you don't have the baseline problem, and if there are subpics on the top, they will be moved down.

[CoNS]

Personally, I use a combination of the two methods. I move the subpic up with the move function, and then I set the border a little bit lower than the bottom line of the subpic. This way, you don't have the baseline problem, and if there are subpics on the top, they will be moved down.Good tip. Thanks!

EDIT: However, come to think of it, you'd still have the jumping-up-and-down problem for the subpics on the top that are moved down, no?

[jeanl]

CoNS, thanks for the detailed feedback!
Jean, generally in the GUI, it think the term "selected" (as in "Apply to all selected" etc.) is a bit confusing. Thus, at first sight you'd think that you're able to select just some of the subpics (within a stream) and apply to those etc. But what you mean is "Apply to all subpics in selected subpic stream" etc., right? Could you clarify this in the button text etc. (or at least in the tooltips)?

Yes I agree it's confusing, but I didn't find a better term for it. I'll try to make it a bit more explicit in the tooltips, but I can't think of anything better right off the bat.

In the current GUI, I think you could easily reduce the size of the "Current subpic info" window. This info is not very relevant for most users, and thus you could save a lot of space in the GUI by making it a smaller window with an up/down scrollbar at the right side...

Well, you're right, and I'm doing that in the new UI.

I remember that Paddington had the same problem when making SubtitleCreator, and he somehow managed to solve it, AFAIK by computing the true baseline of the characters in the subtitles.
IMHO it's somewhat confusing to look at subtitles which move up and down for every other subpic, so for me the best way is to find the desired vertical position for one subpic, and then apply the +/- value to all subpics in the selected stream. Of course this only works really well for DVDs that don't have elevated subpics in between, but fortunately most DVDs don't.

Yes... I can try to make DVDSubEdit a bit smarter than currently if you guys think this is important. I didn't realize that having subtitles "jump" a bit up and down is distracting, but I guess it is...

Would be nice to have in the GUI - even a keyboard shortcut would do for now!

Yes, probably in one of the menus + a shortcut.

Sometimes I need to extract (demux) the entire subpic stream which I just edited in DVDSubEdit for muxing into a different DVD (for example from a R1 NTSC DVD to use in a R2 PAL DVD of the same movie). I know it's a luxery thing, as I can just shut down DVDSubEdit and start up PgcDemux for this, but as DVDSubEdit is an overall DVD subpic editing tool I just thought it would be nice to have the function here, too... But it shouldn't have a high priority, I agree!

That's an easy feature to add, as confirmed by jsoto, so that can get squeezed in easily.

I've tested the OCR function on a number of different DVDs the last couple of days, including the DVDs that I posted subpics from in a previous post in this thread. Overall, it works very well, and it's a most promising start for the OCR feature in DVDSubEdit. I know you say that the author of GOCR did a great job, but it's really cool that you have been able to integrate his work so easily into you application. Good job, very much appreciated.

That part was easy, fixing what's not working will be much harder, the code it very dense!

Ok, the DVDs I tested used either white, light grey or yellow as the main subtitle colour. The OCR function seems to work equally well on these colours. And I'm impressed that it reckognizes characters like ñ, é, à etc. and even $. However, it deos have problems with "?" which is reckognized as "7." and strangely enough "!" always becomes "!."

Yes, I've noticed these very common mistakes.

I've noticed that not all commercial made subtitles have good anti-aliasing. SubtitleCreator actually does a much nicer job on this than many of the "official" subtitles. On my test DVDs with poor anti-aliasing, the OCR function had problems reckognizing some normal characters in normal formatting. For example "realize" became "reali_e", "30,000ft" became "30,000R", "$20" became "$l0" and "figure" became "_gure" etc. (these are examples from different test DVDs).

One thing to know is that GOCR puts a "_" for any character that it does not recognize.

Small font sizes and a wide subtitle border of course seem to affect the ability to reckognize the characters in OCR function, as the characters in the subpics tend to merge in these cases.

Yes, I've noticed that as well.

In some cases it doesn't reckognize spaces, either. This is particularly a problem with italic text. Generally, there seems to be problems with italic characters in subpics. Many characters are not correctly reckognized and the square brackets "[" and "]" are reckognized as "(" and "J" - or "r and "J".

There's an option to adjust spaces, so I could expose that to the user, if that was really important.

For example I have a subpic line in italic reading "- [Man] Welcome back, Maggie May." which becomes "- rmdnJWe/comebdck, mdg_iemd_" via OCR!!! And a subpic line in italic reading "[ Dogs Bark. Whine ]" became "rDo__B_rk, WhjneJ" via OCR! (from the same test DVD).

Yes, italics are often problematic...

Wrt the music notes, the OCR function has severe problems. I know it can't reckognize the symbol, but for half the subpics with music notes, it simply doesn't give me any output at all (even though there are letters and other "normal" characters in the subpic, too).

Now that's strange! I didn't see that in my examples!

Jean, I assume that the GOCR code gives you the ability to change some parameters for the OCR scan. Could you implement some of the more important parameters in an options sub menu or something for the OCR function? For further testing? Also, would it help to add a database to the OCR function?

Well, it isn't that easy. There aren't many parameters you can play with to help the algorithm, and I still haven't found the "database" used to detect characters. I belive GOCR works by coming up with a high-level description of the character in terms of holes, segments etc. I might be hard to tweak that part. But if I can find the location of the internal database, I can probably update it with additional entries.

Let me know if you want me to extract some of the subtitle streams from my test DVDs and mail them to you as SUP files. You could then mux them with random video and audio files for testing purposes, if you like.

I don't need them for now, I have quite a few examples of mistakes, but I'll ping you when I run out!!! :D

It may be slightly confusing that the menu title "Sub Text" is in two words in the menu line. Maybe you could just call it "OCR" (or "Text")? Also, I'm not sure if the "save sub text to file" function works? (where is the file saved and with what filename?)

It does not yet! But it's coming. The new UI will have an area for OCR, so I"m not even sure the menu will stay...

BTW, Jean, in the small OCR window in the main window, I'm able to select the text with the mouse cursor, but CTRL+C doesn't seem to work? It would be nice to be able to copy from the text for posting examples here. As you use Arial as the font in the small OCR window, and as I can't get the save sub text function to work, I can't tell if the OCR function is able to differ between I and l, and between " and '' (two apostrophes) in the subpics, which are both common OCR problems. (For example SubRip has a post-correction function for this)

Yes, you're right. Ideally, I could let the user chose the font. I will try the fix the Ctrl-C problem.

Thanks again for all the feedback. I don't have much hope to fix the OCR problems. Remember that they're a quick fix to let you access things like [(]), not really meant to replace subrip's better function... But I'll see what I can do!
Jeanl

[kumi]

Incredible work jeanl, I'm almost hoping I get a DVD with hearing impaired subtitles so I can test the OCR out.

When you've cleared out your to-do list, could you consider a function for adjusting vertical inter-line spacing? I find subtitles that are spaced too far apart vertically a fairly common occurence, and it's even more noticeable when larger font sizes are used, since they tend to intrude too far into the video frame and/or letterbox boundary.

If you warn the user that the function is only for lines that absolutely do not overlap, you could get away with implementing some sort of crude "optical line recognition", perhaps, where you "cut" all but the bottom-most line, and "move" them a specified amount of pixels closer (or farther) to each other.

In a nutshell, take bottom-placed subtitles:
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/530/maestrosbt0062jz.png

... and "scrunch" them together by a specified amount:
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/2816/maestrosbt0056is.png

You must have your hands full dealing with the intricacies of OCR, so all I ask is you keep it in the back of your mind :)

[CoNS]

I don't have much hope to fix the OCR problems. Remember that they're a quick fix to let you access things like [(])Yeah, you're right. I'm just afraid that it'll be impossible to identify those brackets in italic - unless some examples of them can be added to a database.

Incredible work jeanl, I'm almost hoping I get a DVD with hearing impaired subtitles so I can test the OCR out.Hehe. Well, you can test the OCR on any subpic stream, hearing impaired text or not! So, the OCR + search function makes it possible to locate a specific subpic for manipulation, if you wish...

[jeanl]

Beta 0.85 of DVDSubEdit is now available here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/)...


The UI has been revamped, and the OCR stuff is now fully integrated, allowing you to select, or search subtitles based on content.
I've also added code to change subpic colors.

Here's the change log from beta 0.81

The UI has been reworked to make room for more features.
Added option to change subpic colors. When applied to all, the color change is only applied to the subpics that share the same CLUT.
Added Optical Character Recognition, using the amazing GOCR code by Joerg Schulenburg.
Added option to select subpics based on OCR content.
Added search field to seach for specific strings in the subpic's OCR output.
Added "Save OCR results as text file".
Ctrl-C now works in the command display area and the OCR display area.
Added "Save subpic as PPM file".
DVDSubEdit no longer refuses the open read-only files (but it refuses to save modifs!).


Enjoy!
Jeanl

[[Tobi]]

I like your nice tool.
It becomes better and better and...

:thanks:

[lovelegend]

This is a great tool :thanks:
I have one suggestion, could it be a function to set the "minimum display time if possible" (For example, if "the minimum display time if possible" field is set to 2 seconds, then for all of the subpictures, set the ones which are less than 2 seconds to 2 seconds, and for those which cannot be set to 2 seconds (i.e., the difference between current sub and next sub is less than 2 seconds), then set its stop time to right before the start of next subpicture)?

[jeanl]

lovelegend, this is a good idea (one that r0lZ suggested to me a while back). I'll put that on the todo list...
jeanl

[Mtz]

Again me.
Regarding subtitles positions: is working for me only if I use the cursor not with arrows for up an down or manually entering some desired values. But at least is OK because I can use the slider.
Regarding subtitles color: if I want to change all the subtitles color I need to make this steps: changing the color for the first subpicture and Ctrl+A, (the next subtitle didn't change the color) changing the color for the second subpicture and Ctrl+A, same for the third and at least for the fourth. After 4 changes the colors are changed in all subpictures.
But... when I play the DVD in PowerDVD (which with the original subpictures worked) I can't see any subtitle. Reloading the vobs in DVDSubEdit the subpictures are displayed like I modified last time.
Regarding GUI, the preview area is not refreshed at the top left corner and I think you forgot the buttons for "Apply to All selected".
Regarding minimum timing proposed by lovelegend I think 1 second is enough because in subtitles are many subpictures with only: Yes, Hey, No, etc and for them is enough 1 second. Increasing with more can appear more problems regarding overlapping. I'm using very much Subtitles Workshop and for my experience, 1 second is enough. The command in Subtitles Workshop is Ctrl+L and is also for too long subpictures.

enjoy,
Mtz

[jeanl]

Mtz,
Thanks for the feedback. mmm The fact that the arrows don't work!
About pixel colors, yes, you're right: If you want to apply to all, you have to apply the first color, then the next one etc, in 4 steps. That's a bit annoying, and I should probably fix that. The fact that the result does not show right in PowerDVD isn't good! I'll look into that!
The apply to all has moved in a menu, but I can put the button back for now (there's lots of room in the UI due to the remodelling!).
Jeanl

[jeanl]

Mtz, you were quite right, there was a bug that caused the duration of the subpics to be changed when you modified the colors!!! Not good!
This has been fixed in beta 0.86, unofficial, which I'm posting right now:

Unofficial beta 0.86 of DVDSubEdit is now available here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEditBeta0.86.zip)...

Thanks for the bug report and sorry about that! Lots of changes over the week end...
Jeanl

[jeanl]

Well guys, I looked at the GOCR code, expecting to find a database, and ... there's NONE! There's 1 C-function per character (or per group of character such as a-A or i-I-j-J)!!! It's all hard-coded in the function what an "a" should look like! Unbelievable! This means it's going to be a bit hard to understand how that works, even harder to fix what the problems might be...
jeanl

[Afrinux]

Salut jeanl
Merci d'avoir mis les codes accessibles a tout le monde.
C'est genial comme outil! Je verrai ce que je pourrai contribuer pour ce projet.
Afrinux

[lopoz]

I was wondering if it would be possible to edit the subtitles (specifically the color) without unpacking a dvdimage..

Sorry if this has asked before..

Thanks for the tool!

[frank]

DVDSubEdit has a crash problem.
I have changed about 100 subs in a vob and saved. I didn't close the application, I loaded the next vob and continued editing. After 2-3 vobs the picture freezes and the program crashes.
All things work fine when you restart the program before loading a new vob.

It seems you didn't release all resources when saving and reload a VOB.
Tested with v8.1/8.3.

[lovelegend]

I was wondering if it would be possible to edit the subtitles (specifically the color) without unpacking a dvdimage..

Sorry if this has asked before..

Thanks for the tool!
DVD image? You mean ISO/nrg/mdf.. file?
If so, I think you're asking too much :P (even alcohol or nero burning rom doesn't have a function to add a file into an existing ISO file without unpacking, I wonder if it is possible to do)

[lopoz]

DVD image? You mean ISO/nrg/mdf.. file?
If so, I think you're asking too much :P (even alcohol or nero burning rom doesn't have a function to add a file into an existing ISO file without unpacking, I wonder if it is possible to do)
Yeah, that was what I meant :) As I said, it was just an idea ;)
I have no clue about wether it's at all feasible..

I know that with WinRAR you can extract small files very quickly and replace them with another one (without unpacking the whole archive), so thats how I came up with the idea :) Probably the ISO packaging is very different & doesn't allow that kind of action (I'm just guessing here)

[jeanl]

Salut jeanl
Merci d'avoir mis les codes accessibles a tout le monde.
C'est genial comme outil! Je verrai ce que je pourrai contribuer pour ce projet.
Afrinux
Afrinux, you're welcome. I have to publishe the latest source code, but I'll do that after I fix a couple annoying remaining things...
If you're interested in OCR, you could take a look at it. IT will take some brains to modify/improve on it, but I suppose it's doable...
jeanl

[jeanl]

DVDSubEdit has a crash problem.
I have changed about 100 subs in a vob and saved. I didn't close the application, I loaded the next vob and continued editing. After 2-3 vobs the picture freezes and the program crashes.
All things work fine when you restart the program before loading a new vob.

It seems you didn't release all resources when saving and reload a VOB.
Tested with v8.1/8.3.
Hi frank,
I'll try to reproduce the problem you describe. Just for my info, did you get into a situation where DVDSubEdit started writing all over the place on the screen (THAT happens to me once in a while, I know where that comes from, a M$ function randomly failing, but I haven't found a way to avoid the problem yet). Or was it a straight, regular crash (app freezes, can't do anything and you get the windows message "DVDSubEdit performed an illegal operation" or something like that...
jeanl

[jeanl]

This is a great tool :thanks:
I have one suggestion, could it be a function to set the "minimum display time if possible" (For example, if "the minimum display time if possible" field is set to 2 seconds, then for all of the subpictures, set the ones which are less than 2 seconds to 2 seconds, and for those which cannot be set to 2 seconds (i.e., the difference between current sub and next sub is less than 2 seconds), then set its stop time to right before the start of next subpicture)?
The next version will have that. The "apply to all" dialog will have a drop down for the duration where you will be able to select set the duration to "exactly" "at least" or "at most" the desired value. This will allow you to set minimum durations, exact durations, or maximum durations.
Of course, DVDSubEdit won't set a duration that would overlap with the next subpic (you could, mind you, but the subpic would automatically be turned off as soon as the next one shows).
Jeanl

[jeanl]

Incredible work jeanl, I'm almost hoping I get a DVD with hearing impaired subtitles so I can test the OCR out.

When you've cleared out your to-do list, could you consider a function for adjusting vertical inter-line spacing? I find subtitles that are spaced too far apart vertically a fairly common occurence, and it's even more noticeable when larger font sizes are used, since they tend to intrude too far into the video frame and/or letterbox boundary.

If you warn the user that the function is only for lines that absolutely do not overlap, you could get away with implementing some sort of crude "optical line recognition", perhaps, where you "cut" all but the bottom-most line, and "move" them a specified amount of pixels closer (or farther) to each other.

In a nutshell, take bottom-placed subtitles:
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/530/maestrosbt0062jz.png

... and "scrunch" them together by a specified amount:
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/2816/maestrosbt0056is.png

You must have your hands full dealing with the intricacies of OCR, so all I ask is you keep it in the back of your mind :)

Kumi,
I have also received a request to make subtitles a bit smaller (when displayed on a large screen, it's true that you don't need them to be that large). But this is quite a bit of work, depending on how the subpics are encoded. This requires decoding, modifying and re-encoding. It's possible, but it's tricky and I'm not there yet. This decoding/recoding would be required for example to move them left or right, to change their appearance, spacing and size etc.
jeanl

[svcdprayer]

i dont see button apply to all changes in beta .86 can someone point me where is it ?

tHANKS

because ctrl+a after i modifiy subpicture when applying to all it dosent work for some reason for me

[frank]

Original posted by jeanl
...did you get into a situation where DVDSubEdit started writing all over the place on the screen?Exactly! That's what I mean. No straight crash.
Maybe an error in M$ Direct Draw. I used XP home SP2.

[jeanl]

i dont see button apply to all changes in beta .86 can someone point me where is it ?

tHANKS

because ctrl+a after i modifiy subpicture when applying to all it dosent work for some reason for me
Well, that's a bug then! I removed the button to make space in the UI (but now there would be room to put it back). The button did the same thing as Ctrl-a or the Edit/Apply to all menu... If that does not work for you, I'm going to have to investigate, although I rewrote that part of the app last night, so you might want to wait for the next beta (soon)...
Jeanl

[jeanl]

Exactly! That's what I mean. No straight crash.
Maybe an error in M$ Direct Draw. I used XP home SP2.
Argh, then it's my least favorite bug. Hard to reproduce, but on top of all, it's a failure in a call to a M$ function, and the error code says "wrong parameter" (even though everything seems OK!) and from then on, there's no recovery possible. All subsequent calls to graphic functions go awry.
I don't know how to fix that yet, or work around it, so bear with it for the moment. I'll try to find a fix...
jeanl

[lovelegend]

The next version will have that. The "apply to all" dialog will have a drop down for the duration where you will be able to select set the duration to "exactly" "at least" or "at most" the desired value. This will allow you to set minimum durations, exact durations, or maximum durations.
Of course, DVDSubEdit won't set a duration that would overlap with the next subpic (you could, mind you, but the subpic would automatically be turned off as soon as the next one shows).
Jeanl
jeanl, is it possible to save the timing of all subpictures into one file and DVDSubEdit can load it later to retrieve the timing? If so then we could save the timing of the subpictures first, and then apply the minimum display time to let say 3 seconds, and if it was too long then we can load the file to reset the timing...

Actually it's better if it can save all the timing and positions into a file and can use it to reset all the timing and positions later. Of course we can backup the DVD files before editing, but it would require a lot of disk space...

[jeanl]

jeanl, is it possible to save the timing of all subpictures into one file and DVDSubEdit can load it later to retrieve the timing? If so then we could save the timing of the subpictures first, and then apply the minimum display time to let say 3 seconds, and if it was too long then we can load the file to reset the timing...
Actually it's better if it can save all the timing and positions into a file and can use it to reset all the timing and positions later. Of course we can backup the DVD files before editing, but it would require a lot of disk space...
Well, I'm not sure what the purpose would be. You can change the duration and see if you like it before you save the VOB (unlike changing the actual timing, i.e., at what time the display starts). Why would you need a backup of the durations? If you don't like it, reload all spus and you're back where you were...
jeanl

[jeanl]

Those of you interested can find a new beta (0.87) of DVDSubEdit here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEditBeta0.87.zip)

- You can set several colors on the same subpic, then apply to all will set them all in one shot (you no longer have to do it after each color).
- In Apply to All, you can set the durations of subpics to be the exact value, at most the value or at least the value. This allows you to set a minimum or maximum subpic duration.
- DVDSubEdit is now smarter in finding which line is the true bottom line. This will prevent subtitles from jumping up and down depending on whether characters such as "p" "q" or "g" are present when borders are used.

Jeanl

[laserfan]

I found that DVDSubEdit, including latest 0.87, fails on the first VOB of "Quiz Show" which is a two-angle disc ripped to my hard drive w/DVDD. About 45% of the way into the VOB, I get an error dialog:

Inconsistent data in subpic at LBA 209781. Unknown command 23

and after clicking OK the progress bar is displaying "PTS discontinuous at LBA 210658" and the box shows up:

DVDSubEdit MFC Application has encountered a problem and needs to close"

whereupon DSE aborts.

Great movie, mediocre DVD by the way (letterboxed not anamorphic).

[jeanl]

laserfan, check with previous versions, but I'm sure they will barf too. This indicates that one of the subpics is malformed. DVDSubEdit tries to recover from that error, but often can't. I would like to take a look at the problem though. Could you extract the cell where this happens (for example using jsoto's cutvob program)? You'll need to use www.yousendit.com unless you only cut a few megabytes around the faulty LBA, in which case you can send it to jeanldvd at free dot fr...
jeanl

[lovelegend]

Well, I'm not sure what the purpose would be. You can change the duration and see if you like it before you save the VOB (unlike changing the actual timing, i.e., at what time the display starts). Why would you need a backup of the durations? If you don't like it, reload all spus and you're back where you were...
jeanl
Because you never know if it's too long or too short until you actually watch the edited DVD. For editing position, let say you shifted the whole set of subpictures 50 pixels upward, and you found out that shift was too much, it's very easy to undo by shifting it 50 pixels downward (or just fine tuning it by shifting like 30 pixels downward). However, for applying the change of minimum display time (let say 3 seconds), if after editing we found that the subtitles displayed too long (e.g., we thought 3 sec should be enough, but after editing when we watched the DVD, after finish reading the subtitle and it was still there for another second), but there is no way to undo the change...

[laserfan]

...Could you extract the cell where this happens (for example using jsoto's cutvob program)?...I would try, if you could help me find this program w/directions for use. It's not on jsoto's web site, and got a total of 1 Google hit (that was here in the doom9 forums).

[jeanl]

I would try, if you could help me find this program w/directions for use. It's not on jsoto's web site, and got a total of 1 Google hit (that was here in the doom9 forums).
My mistake, it's cutfile...
http://jsoto.posunplugged.com/tools/CutFile_exe.zip

Should be easy to use. Just make sure you cut enough to include the entire screwed up subtitle...
jeanl

[jeanl]

Because you never know if it's too long or too short until you actually watch the edited DVD. For editing position, let say you shifted the whole set of subpictures 50 pixels upward, and you found out that shift was too much, it's very easy to undo by shifting it 50 pixels downward (or just fine tuning it by shifting like 30 pixels downward). However, for applying the change of minimum display time (let say 3 seconds), if after editing we found that the subtitles displayed too long (e.g., we thought 3 sec should be enough, but after editing when we watched the DVD, after finish reading the subtitle and it was still there for another second), but there is no way to undo the change...
I see what you mean, and that makes sense to me... In fact, a real "undo" is something I've been thinking about, or short of that, a file (as you suggested) which holds the original values before you applied any modifications, and which you can reload selectively (i.e, only reloading durations, or colors, or transparencies etc) to return the VOB where you'd like it to be. I'm guessing everytime you load a "new" vob (there would have to be a way to uniquely identify a vob), a "backup" file is created that holds the original values for each subpics. When you reload the vob, that file is read and there's a menu option to restore the data if needed...
I'll think some more about it!
jeanl

[laserfan]

...cutfile...Should be easy to use. Just make sure you cut enough...A 6Mb snippet is on its way via yousendit.com. I have a horribly slow upload connection so it may take an hour for the file to get to you!

There is one subpic displayed before the error occurs, and a Mb or so after so hopefully there's enough there for you to work with.

[jeanl]

Thanks laserfan, I'll take a look as soon as I get a notification that it arrived there!
jeanl
P.S. Which is.... JUSTNOW! Not too bad!

[jeanl]

Well, I took a quick look at it, and indeed the subpicture pack is malformed... It's missing data, so DVDSubEdit throws up on it! I have no idea why and how that came to be, but I don't think a soft player would be able to show the subpic as part of its SET_DAREA arguments is missing... DVDSubEdit should be a bit more gracious and not crash when it encounters cases like that, but it's not quite easy to do...
jeanl

[svcdprayer]

Well, that's a bug then! I removed the button to make space in the UI (but now there would be room to put it back). The button did the same thing as Ctrl-a or the Edit/Apply to all menu... If that does not work for you, I'm going to have to investigate, although I rewrote that part of the app last night, so you might want to wait for the next beta (soon)...
Jeanl


Thanks Jeanl! Your app looks like very promising! Keep up a good work!

Btw is it possible to make a solution to save ocr as srt ? That would be great feature for me, to extract clean text without ocring in Subrip :)

[jeanl]

svcdprayer, I guess saving as srt isn't hard (I just have to find out the format) but my guess is that Subrip after training will be more reliable than GOCR in general... Unless you're lucky, there are a few mistakes and I don't have much hope to fix GOCR to make it more robust (as I mentioned above, there's no easy-to-update database, it's all hard-coded in the program!).
jeanl

[jeanl]

@laserfan: the vob looks like two subpic packs got switched (one appearing before the one it should have appeared after). Can you tell me how you got this vob? This kind of error happened with one of the first versions of DVDSubEdit that could move subpics (re-time them). (this has been fixed though!).
jeanl

[svcdprayer]

svcdprayer, I guess saving as srt isn't hard (I just have to find out the format) but my guess is that Subrip after training will be more reliable than GOCR in general... Unless you're lucky, there are a few mistakes and I don't have much hope to fix GOCR to make it more robust (as I mentioned above, there's no easy-to-update database, it's all hard-coded in the program!).
jeanl


I agree, but i think for now it would be the easiest way to get ocr done from bitmaps, however for now it would be more easier way without actually ocring like subrip.

If you have time and want to do it i would be very gratefull to you :))

Thanks once again, for your fantastic program!

[laserfan]

@laserfan: the vob looks like two subpic packs got switched (one appearing before the one it should have appeared after). Can you tell me how you got this vob? This kind of error happened with one of the first versions of DVDSubEdit that could move subpics (re-time them). (this has been fixed though!).Hmmm, I dunno jeanl, must be a DVD mastering error of some sort? What I gave to you was from the original DVD using DVD Decrypter in File rip mode. It has not been touched by me in any other way.

Note I would not expect DVDSubEdit to deal with DVD mastering errors; I just happened to have this one available on my hdd to test with.

[jeanl]

laserfan, thanks a bunch. I was actually able to make DVDSubEdit behave better and not crash in such cases (it just dumps the incomplete spu after issuing a warning). So thanks for that! It certainly is a mastering error, no doubt about it...
jeanl

[voo_doo99]

Dont know what I did wrong but I could not get any DVDSubEdit version after 0.69 to work for me. What I always did was: (1) turned on the vertical guide lines, (2) adjusted the sub-title position, then (3) clicked on the button "Apply to all selected". The strange thing [which occurred in 0.75, 0.76, and 0.85] was that my adjustment seemed to get cancelled and the sub-title returned to its original position. Happened to all 3, 4 DVD backup that I tried. But if I went back to 0.69 then the sub position adjustment would stick.

Any idea what changed here?.
Thanks.

[jeanl]

voo_doo99, that's strange. I tested that again a few days ago and everything seemed to work normally.
Can you describe exactly what you mean by "my adjustment seemed to get cancelled and the subtitle returned to its original position"?
- Do you mean that the borders disappear and the subpic returns to the original position before you moved the borders?
- Is this happening for all subtitles, or just the one you were adjusting before using the apply-to-all function?

jeanl

[voo_doo99]

voo_doo99, that's strange. I tested that again a few days ago and everything seemed to work normally.

jeanl,
I know it may just be my problem as no one else reported the same thing. And I am at work so I cant try anything, but if you give me some ideas I will test it when I get home.

Can you describe exactly what you mean by "my adjustment seemed to get cancelled and the subtitle returned to its original position"?
- Do you mean that the borders disappear and the subpic returns to the original position before you moved the borders?
- Is this happening for all subtitles, or just the one you were adjusting before using the apply-to-all function?
jeanl
As I recalled, after clicking "Apply to all selected" the dialog box came up and I checked boxes to apply the "positioning" and "borders" to all selected ISU. After I clicked "OK", the borders stayed shown but the subpic returned to the original position. And I think it happened for all subtitles. I also tried no borders/other borders settings but the subpic position never sticked.
I read from the description you put some contraints on certain types of subtitles but I tried other DVD backups and nothing worked. Strangely, the subpic positioning in all worked as expected with 0.69???

[jeanl]

A lot of things were changed between v.69 and the next version!
Let's wait until you get back home (me too!) then we can make more tests. If need be, I'll ask you to send me a snippet from the VOB so I can replicate the problem at home...
jeanl

[Mtz]

voo_doo99, try to move the cursor for the position of subtitles. Not the Up and Down buttons and no entering manually some desires values. Work this for you?

enjoy,
Mtz

[jeanl]

Mtz, you're still having the same problem? :(
Could it come from the specific vob you're trying? COuld you possibly send me a snippet via yousendit.com?
jeanl

[odbo2005]

jenal,
The position modify bug in all version.
Must move the position slidebar before modify position.
If not,the position check of Apply to all dialog box is not checked.
Although checked "Apply changes subpic position"and press "DO IT",nothing changed.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e149/bvvdster/position1.jpg

If move the position slidebar or after use arow(or number) macro edit,
"Apply changes subpic position" auto checked & the position modify is work prefect.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e149/bvvdster/position2.jpg

[jeanl]

odbo2005, this isn't a bug. If you haven't moved the subtitle, then what would you apply to other subtitles? The "apply move" will be checked if you moved the current subtitle, either with the slider, with the form, or with the two buttons...
If that does not work, then yes there's a bug!
jeanl
EDIT: I can see that you have "-24" in the position form, what did you use to select this value? The form? The small buttons? This looks like a bug, but it works fine on my PC! I just checked again... What version are you using?

[voo_doo99]

jeanl,
I think Mtz and odbo2005 had pinpointed the cause of my problem [thanks, fellows] and I verified that. The problem is the Subtitle & Border positioning only worked using the slider. If I used the Up/Down buttons, the Border dropdown, or pasted a value into the form box; the change would not stick, i.e. it returned to the original position after I clicked on "Apply to all selected".

[Which explained to me now why 0.69 with only the slider worked all the time {sic!}]

PS. OK, I now understand the clue in odbo2005 's post. So, if the change was not detected by the form, the "DO IT!" dialog box would not show any checkmark [like in the first picture]. And if the change was received then the dialog box would preset the checkmark for that change [the second picture]. Got you, odbo2005, thanks.

[odbo2005]

jeanl,
My first pic modify step are:
1.Select subpic stream 0x20.
2.Use the arow(2 small button) Adjust value to -24.
3.Press Ctrl-A, the pop dialog box "Apply changes subpic position" no checked.Sure,I check It.
4.Press "DO IT"......-24 back to 0...nothing changed.

Second pic modify step:
1.1.Select subpic stream 0x20.
2.Use the position slidbar Adjust value to -24.
3.Press Ctrl-A, the pop dialog box "Apply changes subpic position" appear is checked.
4.Press "DO IT",Good!Work fine!

I test much time,from ver.0.71~0.87,if only use small button or the form
adjust position,the Apply to all position not work.If use slidbar adjust or after
use small button & the form macro edit position value,it's work.

[jeanl]

OK guys, I still can't reproduce that darn bug! I really don't understand what's going on, everything works fine on my machine, and I tried with many DVDs... Can one of you guys send me your version of the app (DVDSubEdit.exe) so I can try it myself? Send it to jeanldvd at free dot fr. (you might have to zip it up).
I'll send you the latest version so you can try that one and see if the problem was, somehow, fixed! :(
jeanl

[voo_doo99]

OK guys, I still can't reproduce that darn bug! I really don't understand what's going on, everything works fine on my machine, and I tried with many DVDs... Can one of you guys send me your version of the app (DVDSubEdit.exe) so I can try it myself? Send it to jeanldvd at free dot fr. (you might have to zip it up).
I'll send you the latest version so you can try that one and see if the problem was, somehow, fixed! :(
jeanl
jeanl,
I verified the same problem still existed in DVDSubEdit 0.86 I just downloaded. I emailed you a zipped .VOB snippet, please test the subtitle & border repositioning without using the slider. Note that after Ctrl-A (Apply to All), scan thru the SPUs you will see that the changes did not stick.

[jeanl]

Thanks voo_doo99! I was able to reproduce the problem YEEEAAA! And I can also confirm that the version I'm currently working on (not published yet) does not exhibit this problem. I'm not sure when and how I fixed it (I was not aware of it), so somehow this was fixed in the many changes since. Pfiuuu!
Sorry about that guys, I should have downloaded (!) 0.86 to test that in the first place.

If you're eager to get the fix, I'll post a temporary version, but otherwise, I'll wait until I'm done with the ..... NEXT FEATURES! :D

jeanl

[voo_doo99]

If you're eager to get the fix, I'll post a temporary version, but otherwise, I'll wait until I'm done with the ..... NEXT FEATURES! :D
jeanl
If you already had the fix in, I can wait for the next version tomorrow, right? [just kidding! :p].

Anyway, when working with subtitle & borders I thought about this feature: it would be very cool if I could select a border position and the subtitles would automatically flow right next to it; and even more intelligently, the subs above mid-screen would flow to the top border as the subs below mid-screen would flow to the bottom border. And we are talking about absolute position next to the borders [to take care of the misaligned subs], not just applying the same offset to each SPU. As it is right now I still need to scan thru all SPUs to make manual adjustment for the subs on the top half of the screen and it was hard not to miss some.

So you think this 1-click auto adjustment feature is doable? :)

[jeanl]

voo_doo99, if I understand you, you'd like for ALL the subtitles below the middle of the frame to drop down to the bottom border, and all the subtitles above the middle of the frame to float up all the way to the top border, is that right?
Kind of like a check box that would say "Push subpics out".

What is it that you have to adjust, currently, after you use the border?
jeanl

[jeanl]

Beta 0.90 of DVDSubEdit is now available here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/)...


The major changes are: Support to read and write .sup files, new slider to move subpics left or right (if possible), and improved OCR for italics.


Here's the change log from beta 0.85

Added code to move subpics left and right when possible! This can only be done, for now, if the background does not cover the entire picture.
Added option to quickly reload the last set of vob files (without re-scanning) (see the "File" menu). You can't re-time in that mode.
Added code to load sup files. Note: you can't reload an individual subpic in that mode, or perform any re-timing.
Added "Save as sup file". NOTE: DVDSubEdit does not fix PTS discontinuities...
Added shortcut (Ctrl-T) to run OCR on the current subpic.
Added code to fix OCR problems with italics, and to better recognize brackets.
Entering a value in "duration" had no effect. This has been fixed.
DVDSubEdit no longer complains about the full title not having been loaded if you drag/drop a complete set of VOBs and try to re-time.
Fixed a bug in Beta 0.86-0.87 that caused "Apply to All" to not work well unless the vertical move slider was used.
DVDSubEdit no longer crashes when it encounters a badly formed spu (missing packs for example).


Enjoy!
Jeanl

[voo_doo99]

voo_doo99, if I understand you, you'd like for ALL the subtitles below the middle of the frame to drop down to the bottom border, and all the subtitles above the middle of the frame to float up all the way to the top border, is that right?
Kind of like a check box that would say "Push subpics out".

Right, jeanl. The subtitles repositioning would be as simple as: set the borders position, tick the checkbox, and click "Apply". Sweet, most people like me would need just that.


What is it that you have to adjust, currently, after you use the border?
jeanl
After I repositioned the subtitles close to bottom border and clicked "Apply To All Selected", that took care of 90% of the adjustment. There were just two problems:

(1) There were always some SPUs with misaligned subtitle a little higher than the rest, so after the fixed offset adjustment still stayed higher. This is a minor gripe, but I think if absolute positioning is used (the sy, ey values) it may get all SPUs subtitles into alignment.

(2) My major gripe was that those subtitles on the top half of the frame also got adjusted downward, not toward the top border as desired. And I had no way of catching them all without scanning all the SPUs. DVDSubEdit programming would help tremendously here.

Hope you will incorporate this auto-adjustment feature. :thanks:

[jeanl]

voo_doo99, I'm not sure you're using the borders feature the way it's supposed to be used. Normally, you'd adjust the border, and not move the subtitle (the moving happens automatically). Then, you apply to all, NOT checking the "move subpic" check box (again, the moving happens automatically).
If you do that, then the subtitles at the top of the frame will NOT move downward, unless they're pushed by the top border.
In the end, you should end up with subtitles that are either flush with the top and bottom borders (if they were below the bottom border, or above the top border to begin with) or that are further inside the frame (because that's where they were to being with).

Are you saying that dvdsubedit was moving top subtitles down, even though they were not close to the top border? If you saw that, then it's a bug, because normally subtitles are only moved down if the top border touches them.


jeanl

[jeanl]

voo_doo99, check out this new beta (just for you!) beta 0.901, which has a "Flush" check box next to the border slider. If this is checked, the subpics move to the closest border (hopefully). Beta 0.901 also fixes a bug that could make "Apply to all" to not work properly when loading a sup file...
http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEditBeta0.901.zip

jeanl

[Zeul]

sup support nice :)

[voo_doo99]

voo_doo99, check out this new beta (just for you!) beta 0.901, which has a "Flush" check box next to the border slider. If this is checked, the subpics move to the closest border (hopefully). jeanl
(just for moi!) i am touched :p
Only had time for a quick test, but YESSSS!!! Sweet, you are awesome!

Merci! mon Capitaine http://www.dvdshrink.info/images/smiles/thumb_up.gif http://www.dvdshrink.info/images/smiles/eusa_dance.gif http://www.dvdshrink.info/images/smiles/eusa_clap.gif

[dirio49]

Thanks Jean.:)
Great program.

[jsoto]

You are very close to 1.0 ;) ....err, better 10...

Did you remember the film?... (sorry, but 10 is for the proggie, not for you, you are too ugly....)

jsoto

[jeanl]

You are very close to 1.0 ;) ....err, better 10...

Did you remember the film?... (sorry, but 10 is for the proggie, not for you, you are too ugly....)

jsoto
What film? Not sure what you're referring to!
And how do you know I'm ugly, my avatar? I was tired that day! :D
jeanl

[jsoto]

Not a good film...even the name is stupid..
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078721/

And how do you know I'm ugly, my avatar? Well, just guessing..

jsoto

[Mtz]

1. What is the reason to load a .sup file? I was thinking that with this method I can replace some unwanted subpicture, replacing with my .sup and saving the DVD with my subtitle.
I can load a sup, but:
- if I have 2 languages, is showing only the sup loaded by me
- I cannot use the "fast reload vob's"
- I cannot save the DVD :(

2. Some rare and very minor things about subtitles (this all are examples made by me with some subtitle for testing):
Normal subs:
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/2337/normalsub18ty.th.jpg (http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=normalsub18ty.jpg) http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/7653/normalsub26og.th.jpg (http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=normalsub26og.jpg)

Low Subs:
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/2117/lowsubs5jt.th.jpg (http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lowsubs5jt.jpg)

Up Subs:
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/5532/upsubs1sl.th.jpg (http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=upsubs1sl.jpg)

3. The positioning of the subtitles is working and I love the possibility to change the subpictures color. Many thanks for this lovely little and powerfull proggie.

enjoy,
Mtz

[r0lZ]

- if I have 2 languages, is showing only the sup loaded by me
- I cannot use the "fast reload vob's"
- I cannot save the DVD :(Hi hi hi! :D I told you, Jeanl!
You give a finger, and they want the arm!

[jeanl]

I don't have much time, so quickly:
- Loading a sup isn't meant to replace the existing subpics in your DVD, it's simply meant to look at what's in your sup and possibly adjust them.
- If you load a sup, you can only save a sup, in the FIle menu.
- I'll look at the other problems when I have a minute...
jeanl

[frank]

Originally posted by r0lZ
Hi hi hi! :D I told you, Jeanl!
You give a finger, and they want the arm!http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8143/hysterical5ko.gif (http://imageshack.us)

But I pray for it: Don't overload this very good application!

[jeanl]

To expand on my earlier note:
I added Load .sup file because I found that it was quite easy to add, and very convenient when your subpics were in .sup format, not to have to mux them with video to look at them.
Saving as .sup was also very easy to add, and could be convenient in some cases (for example, if you want to change something to your subpics that are in .sup before muxing).
What this does not do is the muxing!! you can't open a VOB, then import a sup into it (I think that's what Mtz was hoping for). This would require muxing the new subpics into the VOB, and that's not a job for DVDSubEdit (it's a job for muxman for example).

Sorry if the release notes weren't clearer about that!
jeanl

[jeanl]

1. What is the reason to load a .sup file? I was thinking that with this method I can replace some unwanted subpicture, replacing with my .sup and saving the DVD with my subtitle.
I can load a sup, but:
- if I have 2 languages, is showing only the sup loaded by me
- I cannot use the "fast reload vob's"
- I cannot save the DVD :(

2. Some rare and very minor things about subtitles (this all are examples made by me with some subtitle for testing):
Normal subs:
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/2337/normalsub18ty.th.jpg (http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=normalsub18ty.jpg) http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/7653/normalsub26og.th.jpg (http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=normalsub26og.jpg)

Low Subs:
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/2117/lowsubs5jt.th.jpg (http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lowsubs5jt.jpg)

Up Subs:
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/5532/upsubs1sl.th.jpg (http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=upsubs1sl.jpg)

3. The positioning of the subtitles is working and I love the possibility to change the subpictures color. Many thanks for this lovely little and powerfull proggie.

enjoy,
Mtz

Mtz, good test subs!!!!! You managed to defeat the (not-so-smart) code that tries to find the "true" bottom line of the subpics. I really don't see how I can fix the first case of a single "T", unless I use the OCR to detect that this is an isolated character, and not a 'q,p,g,y' etc... I could use the OCR, but I'm not sure how reliable that would be, and besides, how likely are we to have something like TT, or II, etc on a single line?
The second problem is more real, I could adjust the parameter of the line-detection so it works on that example, but I wonder if it would break somewhere else... Could you possibly send me the .sup file where you have that example? jeanldvd at free dot fr?
jeanl

[<hutten>]

First of all, many thanks for a great program! Just love it!

I recently have had problems where the graphics goes crazy when I use the button to step forward in the sub stream a couple of hundred times. The subs disappear in the preview window. Must be some kind of a bug?

A request - It would be nice to be able to select two sub streams in the filter selection.

Thanks
hutten

[jeanl]

Yes, this is a known bug, I know what goes wrong, but I don't know why (it's a M$ function) and I haven't found a work around, or a way to fix it afterward yet. Sorry about that.
Selecting two streams? Not a bad idea! I'll look into it!
Jean

[dirio49]

I recently have had problems where the graphics goes crazy when I
use the button to step forward in the sub stream a couple of hundred times.

This happened to me too, and after windows said that it was out of virtual memory.
Maybe that's the maybe the problem, the harddrive maybe cannot keep up with what's going on.

[mpucoder]

This sounds like a memory leak - some resource like a bitmap or device context is not being destroyed after use.

[jeanl]

mpucoder if you have any info about that, I'm in the business!!! :D
I did check that all the resources were being freed etc... But I could have missed something. There's no memory leak message in the debugger when I exit the program, but a "GDI" leak might go unreported...
The bug is pseudo-random, it can happen after a very small number of clicks/slides, or after quite a while... The error code that I get from the function that fails is completely un-informative ("wrong argument" !!!)... And it's in a function which can't be substituted unfortunately...
jeanl

[jeanl]

OK guys, IT'S FIXED!!!! I found the bug, and as mpucoder pointed out, it was a brush that was created and not released... I added the code to release it, and it looks (so far) like the bug IS GONE!
Happy camper!
Jeanl

[doggersen]

I'm not even sure if this is the correct thread to post this question in. And even worse, im not 100% sure it hasn't already been asked/discussed!
(I waited 10 (yes, not five) days to ask this question, so I hope it was worth the wait ;-)).


I'm very interested in the OCR-part of DVDSubEdit, since it now seems I can FINALLY get rid of those subs for the bad of hearing.
It (as others has pointed out too) seems to be very effective at locating the subs im interested in (the ones with [ ] ).

Now my question is:
A lot of the subs in movies consists of both "hearing impared" text as well as normal text.

Example: "[Eric screams] Get out of the car!"

In those cases it seems as if DVDSubEdit only has the option of removing the entire sentence. Is it instead possible to have it ONLY remove the part within the brackets[] ?

A second question, while I'm at it:
Will it be possible in the next beta-version of the program to make it auto-center/adjust the subs in BOTH directions, and not only ONE as it is now?

Thanks a lot in advance.

:cool:

[jeanl]

doggersen,
The answer is "yes soon" to both questions.
- For now, it's true you can only blank the complete subtitle, so you'll have to live with the brackets if there's something useful. But I know that if I allow you guys to remove part of the subtitle, you'll want to recenter it automatically etc etc etc!
- Horizontal adjustment is being foolproofed. It often requires decoding/recoding the subpics because most of the time, the background takes the entire screen.
Once the decoding/encoding mechanism is solid, it will be easier to remove parts of the subtitles.

I'm open to any input as to how you'd like to do that...
- Erasor?
- Automatic?
etc etc etc.
Jeanl

[doggersen]

Wow! thanks for the quick response and the good news!
(and i should of course have thought about the NEW problems my question generates (the question of how to then center the subs, after parts of them have been removed)).

I have ONE followup-question though!

you say:
"It often requires decoding/recoding the subpics because most of the time, the background takes the entire screen."

What do you mean with "background" in this regard?
(yes it's a technical thing i don't know much about, but i was just curiuos, since i saw it mentioned some other places too in your program/on this forum).

:thanks:

[jeanl]

Read up on this thread as this subject has been brought up before. Essentially, the background of the subpic is the rectangle that encloses all pixels. Some subpics are authored with the smallest possible rectangle that encloses all "useful" pixels (used for the characters). But very often, the subpic includes pixels for the entire screen. That's not terribly wasteful because there's a very efficient way to encode an entire line of similar pixels.
However, this prevents moving the subpics left or right by changing their "start x" data, and to move them, you have to decode them, crop the large rectangle to the smallest possible one around the subtitle, then re-encode. Then you can move them.
The latest unofficial version of DVDSubEdit in the Downloads directory includes that possibility (with the Ctrl-E shortcut). If you want to try you can download it from here:
http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/Downloads

load your vob, pick a subpic you want to move, and see if the horizontal moving slider is enabled. If not, press Ctrl-E, which crops the background. Then the slider will be enabled.

The next beta will include that automatically...
jeanl

[Sir Didymus]

...Once the decoding/encoding mechanism is solid, it will be easier to remove parts of the subtitles.

I'm open to any input as to how you'd like to do that...
- Erasor?
- Automatic?
etc etc etc.
Jeanl

Hi jeanl.

Just want to say A BIG THANK YOU for your excellent work with DVDSubEdit.

I really think you are filling a relevant gap in the DVD backup and personalisation arena.

So, my question is: since you are thinking ( working ? :) ) into the integration of a subpictures decoding --> encoding mechanism, would it be possible to allow - I mean, manually, or off line - the user to modify the decoded subpicture before its re-encoding ?

This would be nice, and would allow to manually recover OCR issues or to "manually repair" typing mistakes in the subtitles [yes sometimes the tranlations suffer from some humoristic mistakes] or to change their graphical layout (spacing, font, boldface, etc...)

[jeanl]

Yes, I guess I could make that possible, but the editing would have to be done in an external app, and it would only be possible if the new bitmap could fit in the space occupied by the old bitmap, once encoded...
jeanl

[frank]

jeanl:
OK guys, IT'S FIXED!!!!
http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/7171/verbeugung6jt.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[jeanl]

People,
There's a new unofficial beta for DVDSubEdit, for those of you who would like to test before I make an official release. It's beta 0.909 and can be found
here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/Downloads)...

There's a good number of new features, improvements and bug fixes. Thanks CoNS for all the testing! Please, give it a try and let me know of any problem.

Here's the change log from beta 0.90

Added code to crop subpic to the bare minimum width, allowing horizontal moving. This can be applied to all in the usual manner.
Added option to move subpics flush with the nearest border.
The main window is now resizable. I cleaned up a lot of the display code, in an attempt to make things faster and cleaner.
The main window can also be minimized, or maximized, imagine that!
DVDSubEdit no longer needs the CLUT to identify the pixels used for the characters. Let me know if that fails.
Added a check box to show the main text pixels in white, and all others in black.
Fixed a bug that caused the app to crash if you fast reloaded a vob that was no longer there.
Fixed the infamous "display freezes, app starts writing all over" bug! A brush wasn't being released....
DVDSubEdit no longer crashes if you quite while running the OCR function.
The "save subpic to ppm" option was shrinking the subpicture by a factor 2. This has been fixed.
Removed the trailing '\n' at the end of the last line in the OCR output display.


Jean

[jeanl]

DVDSubEdit is finally out of beta!
Version 1.0 is now available here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/)...



Here's the change log from beta 0.90

Added code to crop subpic to the bare minimum width, allowing horizontal moving. This can be applied to all in the usual manner.
Added option to move subpics flush with the nearest border.
The main window is now resizable. I cleaned up a lot of the display code, in an attempt to make things faster and cleaner.
The main window can also be minimized, or maximized, imagine that! The size and position are saved from session to session.
DVDSubEdit no longer needs the CLUT to identify the pixels used for the characters.
Added a "Auto CLUT" check box to show the main text pixels in white, and all others in black.
Added option to load an IFO file after loading a SUP file (this one just for CoNS!).
Improved the OCR code, especially with regards to identifying word boundaries
Fixed a bug that caused the app to crash if you fast reloaded a vob that was no longer there.
Fixed the infamous "display freezes, app starts writing all over" bug! A brush wasn't being released....
DVDSubEdit no longer crashes if you quit while running the OCR function.
The "save subpic to ppm" option was shrinking the subpicture by a factor 2. This has been fixed.
Removed the trailing '\n' at the end of the last line in the OCR output display.


As usual, feedback is welcome!
jeanl

[bourtzovlakas]

:thanks: :thanks: :thanks:

[blutach]

Let me add my thanks for this very wonderful tool Jean.

Regards

[dirio49]

thanks
jean

[r0lZ]

Great, Jeanl!

Now, onto the automatic translation of the subpics in any language, for v2.0! :D ;)

[jeanl]

Yes yes yes, that's in the works!! :D :D Thanks guys!
Next features I'm working on, or will start working on:
- Much improved and faster display code (currently using M$ function for adding the subpics with alpha, and that's horrendously SLOW).
- Editing the decoded subpic... First of, removing parts of the subpic text, then perhaps changing the spacing between lines and these kinds of things...

jeanl

[voo_doo99]

DVDSubEdit is finally out of beta!
Version 1.0 is now available here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/)...


Congratulations on the 1.0 Release. ;)


...
Added option to move subpics flush with the nearest border.

Great option, thanks. :D

Miss them buttons in the early betas. :o I kinda wish for a top menu toolbar, or a bottom buttonbar :)

[jeanl]

Which buttons? The apply to all (Ctrl-A) or the revert? (Ctrl-Z to reload 1 subpic, no shortcut for reload all, but that could be added). These buttons took a lot of space that I needed!
Jeanl

[jsoto]

Many thanks for the tool. A great one..

jsoto

[voo_doo99]

Which buttons? The apply to all (Ctrl-A) or the revert? (Ctrl-Z to reload 1 subpic, no shortcut for reload all, but that could be added). These buttons took a lot of space that I needed!
Jeanl
The area on right side of checkbox "Show Video Frame" seems fitting if there is no plan for it. Most used buttons would be "Apply All" and "Save All". Keyboard shortcuts are OK, just not as friendly nor fluid :D

[frank]

Cannot find the sources 1.0 for that great tool. :(

[jeanl]

oh yeah, sorry. I'll post the sources, but they will be for 1.0.1!
jeanl

[jeanl]

Sources for 1.0.2 are posted...
jeanl

[CoNS]

jeanl, could you post a compiled version 1.0.2, too?! Thanks :)

[jeanl]

Sure, I'll do that tomorrow...
Jeanl

[frank]

Great! :)

[CoNS]

DVDSubEdit is finally out of beta!
Version 1.0 is now available here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/)......where it says "Current version Beta 1.0"...! :D

[jeanl]

...where it says "Current version Beta 1.0"...! :D
OK OK, I fixed it! :D
jeanl

[jeanl]

Guys, I've put a new version (1.0.5) of DVDSubEdit for you to test. It's unofficial, so I'm not making a big deal of it.
Find it here:
http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEdit1.0.5.zip

Improvements are:
- Added function to hide hearing-impaired text. Subtitles that are completely enclosed between [] or () are hidden. Text enclosed between brackets is erased. This is preliminary, test it and tell me what you think! Run the OCR first, of course!!!
- Changed the display mechanism, it is now much much faster! I'm happy with that!
- Improved the OCR speed (by only passing the useful part of the subpic to the GOCR)
- Fixed the "save as txt" function to save as a proper .srt file.

As usual, let me know what you think!
jeanl

[dirio49]

thanks Jean.
I like the hide hearing-impaired text function.
The text enclosed between brackets is erased.

What does this mean? that is becomes invisible or you have removed it from the subpic all together?


Thanks again

[jeanl]

It depends...
If the entire subtitle is between brackets, as in
[mutters]
the the entire subtitle his 'hidden' (via the transparency). The bitmap isn't altered.
However, when parts of the subtitle is useful as in:
- [man] You really think so?
the bitmap is altered: [man] is erased, the text right of it is moved to the left where [man] was, and (optionally, but I don't think that's in this version), the entire line is "recentered" so its center is the same as before.

[mp3boy]

Guys, I've put a new version (1.0.5) of DVDSubEdit for you to test. It's unofficial, so I'm not making a big deal of it.
Find it here:
http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEdit1.0.5.zip

Improvements are:
- Added function to hide hearing-impaired text. Subtitles that are completely enclosed between [] or () are hidden. Text enclosed between brackets is erased. This is preliminary, test it and tell me what you think! Run the OCR first, of course!!!
- Changed the display mechanism, it is now much much faster! I'm happy with that!
- Improved the OCR speed (by only passing the useful part of the subpic to the GOCR)
- Fixed the "save as txt" function to save as a proper .srt file.

As usual, let me know what you think!
jeanl


i think is a very nice and fast OCR... however how can I read the whole dvd's subtitle and save as subrip or microdvd subtitle format like subrip does? because this one is a lot faster...

thanks

[CoNS]

mp3boy, in the latest version you can save OCR output as SubRip .srt format.

You can easily load the entire main movie from the DVD by using one of these methods:

1. Drag and drop all VOB files belonging to the main movie VTS.
2. Choose "Open file(s)" from the File menu and select all VOB files belonging to the main movie VTS.
3. Choose "Open full domain" from the File menu and select one VOB file belonging to the main movie VTS.

[Teebeeke]

@CoNS , when trying method 2, i allways fail, meaning, i can't select more then 1 file, ever.

[mp3boy]

@CoNS , when trying method 2, i allways fail, meaning, i can't select more then 1 file, ever.

same here, the diolog has disabled multiple file selection

[jeanl]

That's correct, and that's a mistake! I'll fix that in the next update.
jeanl

[mp3boy]

That's correct, and that's a mistake! I'll fix that in the next update.
jeanl

thanks alot, by the way your tool is very cool

[jeanl]

Thanks mp3boy! You have CoNS to thank for that, in a large part. Lots of testing, bug reports and lots of idea for improvements, especially in the useability area!
Jeanl

[jeanl]

Version 1.1 of DVDSubEdit is now available here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/)...


Main new feature is the ability to erase parts of subtitles bracketed with '[' or '(' or to detect music notes.

Here's the change log from Version 1.0

Added an OCR setup panel with options for OCR, and hearing-impaired text removal.
Added menus to hide/erase hearing-impaired text in subtitles. The remaining text can be optionally recentered or realigned.
GOCR now recognizes (most?) music notes. They are marked as '#' in the output text.
Added ability to move subpics with the mouse. Just grab and move!
Improved the display mechanism, it is now much much faster.
DVDSubEdit now lets you reload individual (or all) SPUs from a sup file (undo).
The "Open vob file" dialog now allows selecting several vobs.
The various save and open dialogs (vob, sup, ppm and srt) now independently remember their default directories. Very convenient.
When opening a sup file, the dialog to optionally load the IFO now defaults to the same directory the sup file was in.
Added "Go to" field to go to a specific spu (Ctrl-G).
Fixed common 'o'->'Q', 'V'->'Y', 'z'->'_', ':'->'_' OCR mistakes.
Improved the OCR speed when the subpic background occupies the full frame.
The "save as txt" function now saves as a proper .srt file.
Added a couple shortcuts (Home and End now go to first and last SPU in current selection).
Added display of "percent done" in progress dialog.
The built-in pdf doc (shortcut: F1) is (nearly) up-to-date.
Fixed a bug that caused the small progress dialog to not close properly if the main window was minimized.
Last but not least: The file version number now matches the actuall version number :D (this one for blutach!)


Thanks to CoNS for many tests, and many many suggestions for improvements.
Feedback is most welcome!
Enjoy...
Jeanl

[dirio49]

Thank Jean.:)
:thanks: :thanks: :thanks: :thanks:


BTW what does open ifo do, how do you activated it.

Love that you are able to drap the subs.:D

[r0lZ]

Fixed common 'o'->'Q', 'V'->'Y', 'z'->'_', ':'->'_' OCR mistakes.Seems you have finally understood how the OCR works! Congratulations, jeanl!

[dirio49]

oops forgot to tell you
it does not seem to find the "x" at all
in non-italic i have seen.
for example
"extra"---> "e_tra"

Take you time
it does not really bother me.

Thank again.

BTW way if you want the .Sup of the film so you can test.
just tell me.

[jeanl]

Thank Jean.:)
:thanks: :thanks: :thanks: :thanks:
BTW what does open ifo do, how do you activated it.
Love that you are able to drap the subs.:D
Open IFO is only enabled if you load a .sup file (unless there's a bug!). If you drop a .sup file, you can load the corresponding IFO to get the CLUT (but it's not smart, it will select the first PGC it can find).

Yes, you can drag/drop a .sup file, and you can reload a subpic from it (you couldn't before).
Jeanl

[jeanl]

Seems you have finally understood how the OCR works! Congratulations, jeanl!
Well, I understand part of it, it's a HUGE program, with thousands of lines of code (I wonder how long it took them to write it!), but I'm able to see where things go wrong, most of the time...
But fixing it is a never ending quest!
jeanl

[jeanl]

oops forgot to tell you
it does not seem to find the "x" at all
in non-italic i have seen.
for example
"extra"---> "e_tra"
Take you time
it does not really bother me.
Thank again.
BTW way if you want the .Sup of the film so you can test.
just tell me.
dirio49, can you send me the .sup file at jeanldvd at free dot fr? I'll take a look... Such errors are usually symptomatic of something slightly wrong with the code... CoNS must have sent me about 20 .sup files by now! :D :D :D
jeanl

[laserfan]

Man, if ever a thread deserved a bump this is it. I just tried DVDSubEdit v1.1 on one of my "acid test" DVDs and am delighted by the new features. Removing hearing-impaired subs, including even small snippets thereof, works fantastically well! I love too that you can step-thru the subs and when you get to a thumbnail where nothing is displayed, you can see the removed sub in the text window e.g. [ Faint Applause ].

There may be an error somewhere in there that I haven't seen, but I can state with certainty that even if there are a few, they'd be many less than I would make myself when I previously used to do this by hand!

It seems like it's been only a month or so since I wandered into this program, and already it's been enhanced to do this thing that we (well, except maybe for CONs) never dreamt it could/would do. Heartfelt thanks to jeanl, great work!!!

Also thanks CONs, for your testing and for pointing me to this in the first place. :) :) :)

[jeanl]

Thanks for the feedback laserfan! :)
jeanl

[CoNS]

Yeah, laserfan. jeanl has made this app a real beauty. And in no time, too.

Just like you, I'm truly amazed how well the function to remove hearing impaired text works already. When I first mentioned this as a possible request, I didn't really think it was within reach at all. But now it's a fact! Cool! :)

AFAIK jeanl is currently thinking about expanding the hearing impaired removal code even further, by - in addition to the automatic removal function - letting the user select any part of a subpic (either by marking a part of the OCR text output or by selecting a part of the bitmap) and hit "Remove"!

This would make it possible to remove any other kind of unwanted parts of subpics, but in my oppinion it could be extremely useful for removing hearing impaired text in these cases, which are not caught by the automatic removal function:

1. Remove "MAN: " in the "MAN: Get down here, kids!" type of subpics.
2. Remove lyrics that have the syntax "# lyrics" instead of "# lyrics #" ("#" = music note).
3. Remove hearing impaired text wrapped in brackets, where the OCR function for some reason doesn't recognize both brackets in a line (this occurs in some cases with italic text in the subpics).

In all three examples, if the extended, manual removal function was implemented, you could easily deal with those subpics following this method

A. OCR the selected stream.
B. Run the automatic removal function to get rid of as much of this stuff as possible.
C. Filter subpics/display only subpics with these chars: ":#[]()"
D. Go through each of those subpics (usually not very many) and remove any unwanted part.

Especially between step B and C it would also be nice to have the option to let the changes made to the bitmap subpics reflect in the OCR output. I know that jeanl is thinking about implementing this, too! Darn, that guy is smokin' hot! :D

[Teebeeke]

I have to say it again, but this proggy is a real timesaver for me. Now i don't have to make samples anymore to check if the subtitles are at an acceptable height.

Thx a million jeanl & CoNS

[CoNS]

It is indeed a truly awesome tool.

However, Teebeeke, as much as I would like to take credit for it, I have to stress that jeanl is the one to thank. He's the sole author of the program, and I haven't contributed with one line of code... (I've only done some testing of alpha and beta versions, analysis of subtitle examples and suggestions for improvements) :)

[ladidi21]

I use it and it's really an amazing product....
Some add :
- the name of the file before the LBA.
DVDsubEdit display the relative LBA from the beginning of the current file (ie VTS_XX_n.VOB) and not the first VOB (ie VTS_XX_1.VOB). As I think it's better to have the relative LBA and not the absolute LBA, it's better to add the filename

Some bonus :
- possible to change the stream ID for a sub
- possible to export the text info of the subs (stream ID, LBA, ...)

[jeanl]

Thanks for the feedback guys.
@ladidi21: you're right, the filename would be nice to have. I'll see if I can do that easily.
- What would be a case where you need to change the stream ID of a stream?
- How would you use the text info of the subs?
Jeanl

[ladidi21]

- What would be a case where you need to change the stream ID of a stream?
Some VTS_xx have subtitles including all : translation of the audio part AND translation of the text included in the video part. I'm talking about DVD having my foreign langage as auio. Moreover, no subtitle exist ONLY for the translation of the text in the video part (ie: "MOSCOW, 1936").
I only want the translation of the text of the video part... because I choose my langage as default langage.
So :
a. I create a new stream for a new subtitle with PGcEdit
b. I set this one as default subtitle
c. With VOBedit, I change the streamID ONLY for the subs which contain the "good" subtitles (translation of the text in the video part)

- How would you use the text info of the subs?
Most of the time, the subs I talk about before are in upper case. So it's easy to find them with a text editor !
Have all the LBA & text in a textfile make my life easier to change the streamID of the subtitle (=>LBA to find where is) with a cut&paste.

Regards.

[jeanl]

Version 1.2 of DVDSubEdit is now available here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/)...


Main new features are the ability to select and erase words or characters in the subtitles, and support for the 3 16:9 display modes (widescreen, pan&scan and letterboxed).

Here's the change log from Version 1.1

Added code to select an area in the OCR output and erase it (both in the OCR output, and the bitmap).
Added option to automatically remove text like "Man:" in subtitles
Added option to adjust word detection in the OCR setup panel.
Added Letterboxed and Pan&Scan video display modes for 16:9 material.
Added text in stream select to indicate which display mode(s) each stream is intended for.
Added option to only show forced subpics.
Added a check box to show the I-frame closest to the selected SPU end time (duration slider).
Added a smarter check for figuring out the video format when loading a .sup file.
Added a warning in the log file if closed-captions are detected in the MPEG stream.
The function to remove hearing-impaired text now runs in its own thread.
Pressing Alt or Ctrl while dragging a subpic allows horizontal-only or vertical-only moves.
Fixed OCR problems. The list is too long to show.
Fixed a crash that could happen in 1.1 if you moved a subpic all the way down.
Fixed a problem with the borders not adapting with PAL/NTSC video format
Fixed a scaling problem that cause the subpics to be slightly cropped in no-video, full-screen mode.
Fixed the safe-area values for the borders. Thanks to r0lZ for the help!
Fixed the "keyboard input problem" (after a threaded operation (OCR for example) the shortcuts didn't work).
Fixed once and for all the progress dialog not disappearing if a threaded operation finishes while the app is minimized.


Thanks to CoNS for many additional tests, and many many suggestions for improvements.
Feedback is most welcome!
Enjoy...
Jeanl

[jeanl]

- What would be a case where you need to change the stream ID of a stream?
Some VTS_xx have subtitles including all : translation of the audio part AND translation of the text included in the video part. I'm talking about DVD having my foreign langage as auio. Moreover, no subtitle exist ONLY for the translation of the text in the video part (ie: "MOSCOW, 1936").
I only want the translation of the text of the video part... because I choose my langage as default langage.
So :
a. I create a new stream for a new subtitle with PGcEdit
b. I set this one as default subtitle
c. With VOBedit, I change the streamID ONLY for the subs which contain the "good" subtitles (translation of the text in the video part)

I see! Very inventive! It would be somewhat complicated to add that to DVDSubEdit, and I'm not sure many users would benefit from it...

- How would you use the text info of the subs?
Most of the time, the subs I talk about before are in upper case. So it's easy to find them with a text editor !
Have all the LBA & text in a textfile make my life easier to change the streamID of the subtitle (=>LBA to find where is) with a cut&paste.
Regards.
I see. I could add that option to the OCR stuff.
Jeanl

[jeanl]

Man, if ever a thread deserved a bump this is it. I just tried DVDSubEdit v1.1 on one of my "acid test" DVDs and am delighted by the new features. Removing hearing-impaired subs, including even small snippets thereof, works fantastically well! I love too that you can step-thru the subs and when you get to a thumbnail where nothing is displayed, you can see the removed sub in the text window e.g. [ Faint Applause ].
Unfortunately, I had to remove that from version 1.2 :(. It was causing real problems with the new erase function to have the bitmap and the OCR missynchronized like that... I miss it though...
Jeanl

[Mtz]

:thanks:

If I select one of the latest 2 options for Vertical Borders in the window will appear Custom Vertical Borders. It is normal?

When erasing some selected text, the subtitle si centered. I saw in some DVDs, subtitles aligned to left. If I erase the first let's say "Oh, " from "Oh, I know it,". And the subtitle was aligned to left, the "I know it" is not moved to the left instead of "Oh".
Can this text recognition to be case sensitive? If I search for "Oh", it will display also "oh".
In hearing-impaired are also words like: whoa, ahem, uh, huh, ha-ha, Ah, aah, etc. Do you have any idea about searching and deleting them? Something like a "data-base". I can create a list on my PC with usual "whoa's" and searching from there for the unwanted texts which can be removed.

If I select one language in "Subpic Selection" and enter in "Go to subpic", for example 300, nothing happen. Because the 300 was in other language, not the selected by me.

I saw that the 4:3 Safe Area was moved up. For me it was better the previous one (Version 1.1). More than that, I used to lower with 2 pixels manually the Version 1.1 borders. Is not really a big problem bacause I will learn again with how many pixels to lower again.
Regarding this: can be added a desired value and stored in DVDSubEdit as preference setting? Something called like: "Personal Vertical Borders"?

After "Saving all Modifications" when closing, DVDSubEdit still tell me that I didn't saved my work.

enjoy,
Mtz

[jeanl]

Boy oh boy! Many problems still!
:thanks:
If I select one of the latest 2 options for Vertical Borders in the window will appear Custom Vertical Borders. It is normal?

No! I forgot i had added these two last options, they're not really here to stay, I'll just remove them.

When erasing some selected text, the subtitle si centered. I saw in some DVDs, subtitles aligned to left. If I erase the first let's say "Oh, " from "Oh, I know it,". And the subtitle was aligned to left, the "I know it" is not moved to the left instead of "Oh".

You have the option of not recentering. Look in the OCR options, and you'll see a check box for recentering the subtitles after erasing.

Can this text recognition to be case sensitive? If I search for "Oh", it will display also "oh".

I will make that a user-option in the next version.

If I select one language in "Subpic Selection" and enter in "Go to subpic", for example 300, nothing happen. Because the 300 was in other language, not the selected by me.

Yes, what should it do? Switch to the other stream? I could change that I guess, but does it make sense?

I saw that the 4:3 Safe Area was moved up. For me it was better the previous one (Version 1.1). More than that, I used to lower with 2 pixels manually the Version 1.1 borders. Is not really a big problem bacause I will learn again with how many pixels to lower again.
Regarding this: can be added a desired value and stored in DVDSubEdit as preference setting? Something called like: "Personal Vertical Borders"?

I think what I'll do is save them in the .ini file. Then you'll be able to go and edit the .ini file so you can have your own personal values for these borders.

After "Saving all Modifications" when closing, DVDSubEdit still tell me that I didn't saved my work.

Darn! I have to check that!
Thanks for all the bug reports!
Jeanl

[CoNS]

In hearing-impaired are also words like: whoa, ahem, uh, huh, ha-ha, Ah, aah, etc. Do you have any idea about searching and deleting them?Use the "Find string" function in the lower right corner to search for each of those words. Each time a subpic containing the search string is found you can decide if you want to remove the word by using the "Erase selected text" function.

If I select one language in "Subpic Selection" and enter in "Go to subpic", for example 300, nothing happen. Because the 300 was in other language, not the selected by me.Yes, what should it do? Switch to the other stream? I could change that I guess, but does it make sense?The "problem" also occurs when trying to go to a subpic number which doesn't exist at all (i.e. you try to go to subpic #2000, but in total the loaded VOBs only contain 1587 subpics).

In these cases you could display a small warning dialog saying that the desired subpic number is not in the selected subpic stream. The catch is that it could become an annoying warning for the user.

As an alternative you could go to the nearest available subpic number in the selected subpic stream. But this solution is not real good either, just like forcing the selecting of a subpic in a stream which is not selected.

After "Saving all Modifications" when closing, DVDSubEdit still tell me that I didn't saved my work.I didn't see this bug when testing v1.2 yesterday on a DVD. I loaded a full domain of VOBs, ran OCR and removed hearing impaired text and saved all modifications. When I exited the program I didn't get a warning about saving the changes?!

[r0lZ]

I think the Saving all Modifications message occurs only when you save your work while a specific stream is selected. Seems that the program saves only the modifications of the current stream.
If you want to get rid of the message, you have to select all streams (and probably also all V/CIDs) and save.

[jeanl]

I think the Saving all Modifications message occurs only when you save your work while a specific stream is selected. Seems that the program saves only the modifications of the current stream.
If you want to get rid of the message, you have to select all streams (and probably also all V/CIDs) and save.
r0lZ you're right! And I think it's not a good idea. I think all modifications in all streams should be saved when you chose save... What would be a situation when you only want to save some of your modifications?
Or, as an alternative, the warning should say "do you want to save all modifications and exit", but there would need to be 3 buttons, "save and exit", "don't save and exit", "cancel"...
Jeanl

[frank]

I think all modifications in all streams should be saved when you chose save...
Agree.

[ladidi21]

In fact, I only want to be able to change the StreamID for some subs I will preview...
So a simple editable box for the streamID of the sub I'm just viewing will be helpful !

Regards.

[JFerguson]

Hi jeanl,

I haven't checked out your proggie in a while... I see that you let us open read-only sources now.

You rock...nuf said! :)

[jeanl]

Well, I haven't published the source for the latest version! Laaaame! :)
jeanl

[doggersen]

As I can understand it should be possible to to open multiple vob files at once (or the entire movie), but no matter what I do, it seems as if it will only open the first of the selected vob-files.

I'm using v.1.2.
I have tried to drag vob-files to the program, select them from the opening menu, and also tried that domain-thing, but in all cases it seems I end up with one vob-file loaded into the program (when I perferm ocr for example, it only does it on that specific single loaded vob-file).

Have I misunderstood it all? :-)

[jeanl]

You can only drag/drop:
- Files that belong to the same VTS (i.e. don't try to open VTS_01_1.VOB and VTS_03_1.VOB)
- Files that belong to the same domain (i.e., don't try to open VTS_01_0.VOB and VTS_01_1.VOB because one is the menu domain and the other belongs to the title domain).
Normally, you get an error message if you try, so I'm not sure whether that's the problem you're running into.
jeanl

[doggersen]

Thanks for the answer. As i understand it, you can't open full movies at once then? It seems all the movies I have checked are named after your first example (VTS_01_1.VOB, VTS_02_1.VOB, VTS_03_1.VOB etc.).
In other words, is it normal to open and edit (seperately) like those averagely 4 vob-files that contain subtitles and the movie itself, in order to edit the entire movie?

[jeanl]

doggersen, it's very rare for a movie to span vts_01_1.vob, then vts_02_1.vob etc. That's more for episodic DVDs, with 1 episode per VTS. That's because you can't do a seamless playback transition from the first vob to the second.
Most movies are put in a single VTS, as in vts_01_1.vob, vts_01_2.vob, vts_01_3.vob etc ...

Are you sure you're actually in that last case?

jeanl

[jeanl]

Version 1.3 of DVDSubEdit is now available here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/)...


Main new features are the ability to modify the CLUT colors, a new zoom window to better see the subpics, and more customizations of default colors and behavior.
Here's the change log from Version 1.2


Added ability to modify the IFO clut directly from DVDSubEdit. Click a pixel tile, then shift-click in the CLUT display.
Added a "zoom" window that can show the useful part of the bitmap with a 1:1 scaling.
Added automatic selection of display mode when the user changes the stream selection. This can be disabled in the .ini file.
Added option to see OCR result on the original subpic (before any modification). That's useful for checking what the Hearing-Impaired removal tool does.
Added checkbox in OCR setup to allow case-sensitive searches on OCR output.
Added possibility to choose the default text and background colors when in "AutoCLUT" mode.
Added Preferences panel that includes general settings, OCR setup, and Hearing-impaired tool setup. The panel now includes options to change background color, alert if closed captions are found, and ask to load IFOs when loading .sup files.
Added OCR code to detect tied 'fl' 'ft' and 'fi'.
The "Save all modifications" menu now also works for .sup files (modifications are written back to the original .sup).
Save all modifications now saves modification in *all* subpics (not just the selected ones).
Border settings are saved in the .ini file (C:\Documents and Settings\YourName\Application Data\DVDSubEdit.ini). You can edit them to change the default values.
Fixed yet another stupid border problem with PAL movies.
Fixed a few problem with the automatic recognition of hearing-impaired text.
Fixed a (rare) problem where the true subtitle bottom line was not detected correctly.
Fixed a display mess-up when fast-reloading a PAL movie.
Fixed an OCR problem that occured when some subpics were moved up.
Fixed a bug that could cause operations on a subset of the SPUs to abort prematurely.
The built-in pdf user manual (F1) is more or less up to date.


Also, don't forget to checkout CoNS's cool guide (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/Guides/HearingImpaired/guide.htm) for removing hearing-impaired subtitles!

As usual, thanks to CoNS for many additional tests, and many many suggestions for improvements.
Feedback is most welcome!
Enjoy...
Jeanl

[dirio49]

Nice.
Thanks Jean

[blutach]

Just a wonderful piece of work. Thanks jean! And thanks to CoNS for the guide.

Regards

[doggersen]

doggersen, it's very rare for a movie to span vts_01_1.vob, then vts_02_1.vob etc. That's more for episodic DVDs, with 1 episode per VTS. That's because you can't do a seamless playback transition from the first vob to the second.
Most movies are put in a single VTS, as in vts_01_1.vob, vts_01_2.vob, vts_01_3.vob etc ...

Are you sure you're actually in that last case?

jeanl

Sorry Jeanl, I got it all mixed up. You were right, i actually did mix up those numbers, and it perfectly opens multiple files (by just selecting one of the files in the series), so no problem!

[doggersen]

I tried the new version 1.3 with the guidance of Cons guide on how to do the "hearing-impared"-thing.

And how I missed a guide like that! Perfect guide that finally makes me realize how powerful and nice the program is! so big credit to Jeanl and Cons for that! :)

I noticed a thing though. I seem to be able to reproduce the same error over and over.
If I checkmark "re-center modified subtitles" it seems to crash/exit DVDSubEdit when I select the "hide hearing impaired text in all selected subpics".
And it seems to do it with no matter what DVD i try.
Admittedly none of the dvds to my knowledge really needed any re-centering (all the text was already placed nicely at the bottom in the middle of the screen throughout), but does that play any role?
Do i need some other thing activated before I can use the function? (I just followed the guide in slave-manner).

Would it by the way be possible to make the program remember more stuff till next time you start it? Im thinking of the minor detail, where you in the field "select subpics with these chars" write something like []()#.
Would be nice if I didn't had to write that each time (admittedly absolutely a small detail!).

Last question, would it be out of the way to EVER implement some inbuild wizards? :)

[jeanl]

doggersen,
The crash you describe is news to me, and not good! Can you do this?
- Save your subtitles as a .sup file (with DVDSubEdit).
- Check that the bug occurs with this .sup file as well.
- Send me the sup to jeanldvd at free dot fr.

Then I can see if that crashes the app for me as well!
Thanks a bunch!

As to remembering what's in the "select subpics with these chars", I think that's simply luxury!!! Not that it's hard to implement, but I'm not even sure it's a good idea? Any opinion, the others?
What kind of wizard did you have in mind? The next version will have a direct link to CoNS's guide so you don't have to go look for it....
Thanks for the kudos!
Jeanl

[doggersen]

Sorry about the late reply jeanl! My credibility is really at stake here! I tested it with 3 OTHER movies, and I wasn't able to reproduce the error! And the unfortunate thing is that I don't have those movies anymore I the first time around tested it on!

Even though one should think it was me fooling around, I just don't understand it, as i closely followed the guide in ALL cases!
But I will remember to save it as a .sub as soon (if ever!)as I see the problem again.

As it is now it simply works perfectly, perfectly centering all the lines.

Concerning those wizards, I was thinking of them in regards to the OCR/"Hearing impaired" parts of the program.

A lot of my friends who aren't too computer-oriented would never be able to use your program, even with Cons guide!
And I must admit without Cons guide I too was kinda lost.
It's not at all hard to use for me now, but unless you have edited DVD's before I would say it has a pretty steep learning-curve.
And i think that is a shame, since the removal of hearing impaired subs has such a broad appeal!
Also I know that I for sure would have to doublecheck the guide, if I took a break away from the program for a smaller period.

A wizard would eliminate any doubt whatsoever, and even a newbie would be able to use your powerful program instantly!

Some of the parts from Cons guide could even be used in the wizard.

It's not at all anything advanced I have in mind, basically something like this:

(with windows popping up for each step, if you choose the wizard that is!)

1. Point to the directory of the movie, you want to remove hearing impaired text from.

*DVDSubEdit is now processing the movie*

*DVDSubEdit won't be making any changes to your movie unless you confirm at the end of the wizard*

2. Mark which (language) subtitles you want DVDSubEdit to edit.

*doing some OCR-processing*

3. Mark the following boxes, dependent on how much text u want to have removed (boxes from the preferences-window).

4. DVDSubEdit found some characters it didnt recognize (as default it might be searching for []()# ), do you want to manually edit those, or ignore it?

5. you now have the option to preview the changes.

6. do you want to save the changes?


Sorry, it was writtin a bit fast, but I think you at least have a slight idea of what kind of simple-minded wizard I have in mind :)

And should you EVER consider just the slightest to ever implement such a monstrosity or similar, NEVER prioritize it over anything else in the program, - cos i do after all realize, that things such as the OCR-reader etc. are much more important to work on! :)
(even though i must say for me, its close to perfect so far! :))

[jeanl]

Thanks for the suggestions doggersen... I'm not sure where I'll put this suggestion on my todo list! There are things I want to fix/improve before I do that, but it's true that wizards are good for newbies...
Jeanl

[jeanl]

Version 1.32 of DVDSubEdit is now available here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/)...


This is mainly a bug-fix update, but a few annoying things have been fixed.


Added slider to the retiming dialogs, and the preview shows the I-frame closest to target location for the current subpicture. The slider range can be changed in the preferences.
You can now change the transparency of multipe pixels, and applly-to-all in just one shot (just like with color changes).
Fixed the annoying interactions between "Ignore CLUT" and "Auto CLUT" check boxes.
Cleaned up the way the "ShowVideo" check box behaves when loading VOBs and sups.
The true bottom line detection is more reliable than before (hopefully!). Still not perfect.
Added menu to open CoNS's hearing-impaired guide.
If you cancel after changing the CLUT color, the original CLUT is now restored.
Fixed a bug that was introduced in the previous version in the routine that detects brackets, which could cause good subtitles to be erased!
Added a check to detect NTSC subpics in PAL video (that scenario previously crashed the app).
Added a few error checks when loading subs, to avoid crashing when encountering malformed SPUs.


Also, don't forget to checkout CoNS's cool guide (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/Guides/ChangingColors/Guide.htm) for changing subtitle colors!

As usual, thanks to CoNS for many additional tests, and many many suggestions for improvements.
Feedback is most welcome!
Enjoy...
Jeanl

[dirio49]

Thanks. Jean:D :D

[blutach]

Thanks again Jean for what is a fantastic piece of work.

Regards

[doggersen]

I would also like to say thank you for the latest version, that I of course had to try out immediately!

It seems though, that I unfortunately stumbled into an error I have mentioned before, where the program crash (but I came to the conclusion it was false alarm from my side back then:)).

The apparant error seems to occur every time I run the "hide hearing impaied text in selected subpics".
But ONLY when I in preferences have "re-center modified subtitles" selected.

It seems to vary from movie to movie (in v.1.32 i've only tested it with one movie though).

As earlier instructed by you Jeanl, I've taken the liberty of e-mailing you the .sub-file. (when I open that sub file alone, the same error occurs).

When the error occurs, it seems to be 10% into the movie/subtitle each time.

[jeanl]

Great, with the sub file, I'll be able to reproduce and figure out what the problem is! I'll look into it tonight...
Jeanl

[jeanl]

Thanks doggersen, I was able to reproduce and fix the bug... I might post a quick update on the web, changing the version number and simply adding this bug fix for now...
jeanl

[doggersen]

Wow! that was fast indeed! Good work :)

Would be very nice to see the fixed version put up!

Just out of curiousity, why did the bug occur? You don't have to bother if it's not for normal human beings to comprehend :D

Thx.

[jeanl]

I've uploaded version 1.321 here
http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEdit1.321.zip

The version is identical to 1.32 except for the bug fix...
The bug was in the code that attempt to find text like:
- MAN: bla bla bla
and one of the subtitles had something like
-: (mis-recognized music note) that caused the crash...
Jeanl

[doggersen]

Thanks for the mini-update, it naturally works perfectly :)

[President]

I've uploaded version 1.321
Thanks, Jeanl! But...
Hmmmm. Last working version is 1.2. Versions 1.3, 1.32, 1.321 not even started. Program was encountered problem... bla-bla-bla. Closed. Ok.
Windows 2000 SP3 (Russian). Rights - Administrator.

[CoNS]

Hmmm, President, that's strange. I'm running the app on a Danish version of Win2000 SP4 without problems.

Anyone else having similar problems?

[President]

Hmmm, President, that's strange. I'm running the app on a Danish version of Win2000 SP4 without problems.
Anyone else having similar problems?
It amazed me too:-((. What global differences between versions? I try to clean windows registry, but not found any suspicious key. I'm shocked:-(. System events log is also empty. What does it matter? May be new app use microsoft .NET or somewhat else?

[jeanl]

No no, no .net or anything, but you're not the only one with this problem, unfortunately, and I'm having a hard time figuring out what the heck is going on. Try this however: Remove the DVDSubEdit.ini file (it's in C:\Documents and Settings\YOURNAME\Application Data) and see if the app starts. If it does start, then close it and try to start it again. If it crashes at this point, I think I know what the problem is.

If that's the case edit the .ini file and remove the line
MainWindowPos= x y z o

and try to restart the app. If that does the trick, I'm going to have to look into a way to avoid that pain in the neck annoyance...
jeanl

[mpucoder]

I had that problem with MuxMan, too - invalid or off-screen coordinates. I added a sanity check (within the bounds of the display).
// create the window
DlgSz.cx = 568;
DlgSz.cy = 326 + 15;
ConvertDialogUnitsToPixels(hDlgFont, &DlgSz);
DlgSz.cx += 2*GetSystemMetrics(SM_CXFRAME) + 2*GetSystemMetrics(SM_CXFIXEDFRAME) ;
DlgSz.cy += 2*GetSystemMetrics(SM_CYFRAME) + 2*GetSystemMetrics(SM_CYFIXEDFRAME)
+ GetSystemMetrics(SM_CYMENU) + GetSystemMetrics(SM_CYSMCAPTION);
x = GetPrivateProfileInt("General","Left", CW_USEDEFAULT, "Muxman.ini");
y = GetPrivateProfileInt("General","Top", CW_USEDEFAULT, "Muxman.ini");
if (y < 0) y = 0;
if ((y+50) > GetSystemMetrics ( SM_CYFULLSCREEN ) ) y = GetSystemMetrics ( SM_CYFULLSCREEN ) - 50;
if ((x+(short)DlgSz.cx-100) < 0) x = (short)(100-DlgSz.cx);
if ((x+100) > GetSystemMetrics ( SM_CXFULLSCREEN ) ) x = GetSystemMetrics ( SM_CXFULLSCREEN ) - 100;

hWnd = CreateWindow( gszMuxmanClass, gszAppName,
WS_OVERLAPPED | WS_CAPTION | WS_SYSMENU | WS_THICKFRAME | WS_MINIMIZEBOX /*| WS_MAXIMIZEBOX*/ ,
x, y, DlgSz.cx, DlgSz.cy, NULL, NULL, hInstance, NULL ) ;

[jeanl]

Thanks mpucoder. In this case, I'm not sure the problem is invalid or off-screen coordinates. I've seen it happen with perfectly legit values for x y, cx and xy. The crash happens in a call to SetWindowPos (IIRC), and that makes not sense whatsoever...
:(
Jeanl

[Mtz]

jeanl, can you use the location of the ini file in the same folder as the user have DVDSubedit.exe?

enjoy,
Mtz

[jeanl]

Mtz, that wouldn't be a bad idea... I'm not sure why I selected that location, probably because most apps use it... But that makes it difficult to find the ini... I will add a shortcut to open the ini file automatically in notepad...
jeanl

[President]

Try this however: Remove the DVDSubEdit.ini file (it's in C:\Documents and Settings\YOURNAME\Application Data)...
That's right. I deleted both files in this folder. That will do. Thank's.
*************************
Hmmm, sorry, it's me again. Apps start normally one time and crash again at the second start. I deleted "MainWindowPos" line from ini. A situation is repeat. First start nomally, second - crash.
My display resolution is 1280x1024 if it can help you.

[President]

Mtz, that wouldn't be a bad idea...I will add a shortcut to open the ini file automatically in notepad...
One more idea. You place a first line in ini:
DVDSubEdit version 1.321
Apps check this line from each start and delete old or incorrectly modified file (then create a new ini) if any mismatch detected.
In this case users has not necessary know what is the ini-file in general:-).

[jeanl]

President, I know the problem. The first time is OK because the value isn't there, but then the second time you open DVDSubEdit, you get the crash. OK. I'm going to post a quick fix which will lookup a value in the .ini file to tell it whether to read the position or not. This will solve your problem, until I can get to the bottom of that stupid crash. Sorry about that...
Jeanl

[jeanl]

President, go to the home page, and update to version 1.322.
Edit your ini file and at the bottom add the line:
NoSize=1
The app should now start just fine, but it won't remember the last size/position you used. This should fix your problem for now...
Jeanl

[President]

President, go to the home page, and update to version 1.322.
Edit your ini file and at the bottom add the line:
NoSize=1
The app should now start just fine, but it won't remember the last size/position you used. This should fix your problem for now...
Jeanl
Thank you very much. I don't extremely needed this app now (but I'll download update:-) ). I don't hurry you by no means. I just want to help you to improve a very good soft for all users. Thank's once more for fast response in any case.
*****************************
I downloaded update. All is Ok. Problem was killed:-).

[kumi]

jeanl:

Would it be possible to add an extra option called "All DCSQTs" to the dropdown DCSQT chooser? I find myself with a track where some of the SPUs have up to 17 DCSQT commands :scared: If I want to change a value globally, like color, I have to run through the whole color-picker thing for each DCSQT, as it is right now.

[jeanl]

Kumi, you're not the first one to mention/ask for that... I'll look into it. It might be a bit more complicated than it looks but I'll see... What I can probably include is an option, in the "Apply to all" dialog, to apply to all DCSQTs. Would that be OK?
jeanl

[kumi]

Absolutely, that would work just as well. Thanks for considering it :o)

[Skiro]

Is there possible to change text of selected subtitle?
I can erase but i can't change text.

[jeanl]

kumi, I'm looking into it, but I'll need some time.
Skiro. No, not possible, very very very hard!
jeanl

[Mtz]

Skiro. No, not possible, very very very hard!
jeanl
But if you'll make this someday, you'll "kill" many guides about "adding subtitle to a DVD". Also I wrote 2 guides about that in my native language. But no problem, I'll write another one for DVDSubEdit in my language. In english I'm sure that CoNS will write one. ;) I'm sure many eyes are watching you regarding this when you are releasing new versions of the program.
:thanks:

enjoy,
Mtz

[jeanl]

Mtz, really I don't know how to do this well.
One way would be to go through subpics and find templates of each letter (assuming you can really cut a letter out from its neighbors, which usually you can't in a clean way) then cut/paste them anywhere you like... But this would be quite tricky, and would require there being subpics already in your DVD, so not good for adding subpics from scratch.
Besides, what people usually want to do is add another stream, which means finding space in the VOB for the new subpic packs, then muxing them in. That's even worse than retiming (where the overall size of the VOB does not change) because you're trying to add stuff here...
Given that there are some great tools (and guides) for doing it, I don't see the point of trying to implement that...
Jeanl

[Skiro]

I think that, if is it possibility to change subtitle whitch is already in VOB's.
Now we can only erase text in existing subtitle, not (that it'll be very useful) change letters in existing subtitle:D

[jeanl]

Kumi, here's a quick update of DVDSubEdit
http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEdit1.323.zip
which implements the "select all DCSQT" feature. Just use the drop-down list to select all DCSQT. The slider and color adjustments will then be applied to all DCSQTs that have a color/contrast command. Apply to all will also apply to all DCSQTs if the corresponding checkbox is selected in the Apply to all panel...
Let me know if this does not work.
jeanl

[Mtz]

Hmm... I found some timming bugs in the output file when using a SUP file send to me by a friend which wanted some help.

91
00:08:03,0 --> 00:08:06,709 <<< bug

....

97
00:08:26,40 --> 00:08:27,359 <<< bug

98
00:08:29,0 --> 00:08:33,437 <<< bug

Another strange thing:

102
00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:52,437
That's my baby boy.
<<< bug ?
103
00:00:00,531 --> 00:00:03,967
-Where were you at my game, sis?
-Oh, l had to study for that history test.

enjoy,
Mtz

[jeanl]

Mtz, how do you know the timings are not correct? Or do you mean the 100th of a second should always be displayed with 3 digits? I'm not following you...
Jeanl

[kumi]

Thanks, jeanl! I will test your new DCSQT functions this weekend.

[CoNS]

@jeanl: I agree with Mtz that the milliseconds at the end of the time codes always should be displayed with three digits... (However, I'm not sure if it's just cosmetic, or if it's against the specs for the .srt file format, causing problems when other apps are reading the file?)

Wrt subtitle lines #102 and #103 in Mtz' example I think he's trying to show you that the time codes are not continous. They jump from the 9th minute in the movie (subtitle line #102) to the first minute (#103)...

[mpucoder]

That's probably a new vob. Seems we're discussing timing in two places.

[jeanl]

Yes, it looks like the PTS got reset and the output was not properly adjusted. I'll have to look into that...
Thanks CoNS, I had completely missed the point!
Jeanl

[mpucoder]

Since the sup came from another program there isn't much you can do as you don't know the exact duration of the first vob. Maybe a best guess (a little after the last spu) and then a manual adjustment?

[Mtz]

it's against the specs for the .srt file format...

Yes! Must to be 3 digits always.

@mpucoder, also I read the "thread about timmings" but in that thread is a specific problem encountered by some user. I posted my fingings here because them are related to DVDSubEdit and I want to help jeanl. The SUP file was extracted with DVDSubEdit, previous version before this.

enjoy,
Mtz

[mpucoder]

NP, it was just an observation (and I should have used a smiley - can we still call them smilies or has that been copyrighted and trademarked? Emoticons - oops, patented). The other thread is talking about a multitude of programs with timing problems, and I hope by talking about it in that forum that these programs will get fixed.
Many readers of this thread are probably unaware of that discussion, but can use this information.

As for the sup being created by DVDSubEdit, yeah, jeanl can fix that. But there are other programs doing the same thing, so importing a sup with clock reset will be around for a long time.

[CoNS]

@mpucoder: Yeah, we're kinda in a grey zone between the subtitle section and the IFO/VOB Editors section... *smile* (that's not copyrighted, is it?!!)

(For users that didn't already find it: Here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=110212) is the other thread about PTS calculation and time codes, as mentioned by mpucoder)

Mtz, do you remember which version of DVDSubEdit you used for saving the .SUP file? It's new to me that there should be a PTS/clock reset bug like this in DVDSubEdit when extracting .SUPs... Does the same thing occur if you open the same movie and save a .SUP with the latest version of DVDSubEdit?

I wonder what other programs that are capable of extracting .SUP files (PgcDemux, VobEdit, DVD Decrypter?, SubRip etc.) have this PTS/clock reset bug, too?!

[Mtz]

The used version was: 1.322. As I told in some previous post the SUP file was extracted by some friend with 1.322. I cannot extract another the SUP because the DVD is not mine and I don't have it.

enjoy,
Mtz

[mpucoder]

I just tried VobEdit 0.6 and it did not account for clock reset. PgcDemux, on the other hand, does. I believe PgcDemux was the first to get this right (the version I had handy was an old 1.2.0.4).

[jeanl]

Yes, jsoto alerted me to the reset problem, but I didn't implement it the right way at the time (saving a .sup was not high on my list at the time), so I'm not surprised that pgcdemux does it right. I will have to fix that in DVDSubEdit. I'll let you know when that's done...
Thanks guys.
Jeanl

[jeanl]

Guys, I posted a quick update of DVDSubEdit to fix the discontinuous PTS problem (and also the srt display problem)
http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEdit1.324.zip

Mtz, can you check whether this fixes your discontinuity problem?
Jeanl

[Mtz]

OK, first I will say what I did (used another DVD (NTSC 29.970) than the one used in my previous report):


I. Used PGCDemux to extract all streams, including one big VOB file (used to check the subtitles in Subtitles Workshop). Sup file named EnSubPGCDemux.sup. Run OCR and saved as: EnSubPGCDemux.srt.


II. Used DVDSubEdit to extract the subpictures. Sup file named EnSubDVDSubEdit.sup Run OCR and saved as: EnSubDVDSubEdit.srt.


III. Used SubRip to OCR to srt file. Srt file named EnSubRip.srt


Tests:

1. Compared the output between EnSubPGCDemux.sup and EnSubDVDSubEdit.sup in hex and found some differences. The differences are regarding to timing, more exactly, the programs used different delays applied to all subtitles with a constant value. PGCDemux reported Delay=0. This was checked later in the srt outputs


2. Compared the EnSubPGCDemux.srt and EnSubDVDSubEdit.srt in notepad and Subtitles Workshop and I found a delay:

EnSubPGCDemux.srt
1
00:00:58,799 --> 00:01:01,064

2
00:01:01,233 --> 00:01:03,929
...
1552
01:36:31,300 --> 01:36:34,531

1553
01:36:36,133 --> 01:36:38,033


EnSubDVDSubEdit.srt
1
00:00:59,299 --> 00:01:01,564

2
00:01:01,733 --> 00:01:04,429
...
1552
01:36:31,800 --> 01:36:35,031

1553
01:36:36,633 --> 01:36:38,533

From the line 1553: 36,633 - 36,133 = + 500 milliseconds between EnSubDVDSubEdit.srt and EnSubPGCDemux.srt. The difference is so small, so I can't tell which is the correct delay.


3. Testing the SRT files in Subtitles Workshop and using the big VOB with all movie. Only EnSubDVDSubEdit.srt and EnSubRip.srt tested because no needing the EnSubPGCDemux.srt because of the small constant delay.
a.) This is a screenshot from EnSubDVDSubEdit.srt. The delay is negative, progressive and bigger.
http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/5738/ensubdvdsubedit4cp.th.jpg (http://img250.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ensubdvdsubedit4cp.jpg)

b.) This is a screenshot from EnSubRip.srt. As you can see the subtitle line is displayed correct.
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4848/ensubrip3wn.th.jpg (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ensubrip3wn.jpg)


4. Comparing the last timing (approx.) betweens srt files:
EnSubDVDSubEdit.srt
1553
01:36:36,633 --> 01:36:38,533 <<< negative delay

EnSubPGCDemux.srt
1553
01:36:36,133 --> 01:36:38,033 <<< negative delay

EnSubRip.srt
1553
01:36:42,070 --> 01:36:44,038 <<< seems to be correct.


5. Comparing the last timings in Subtitles Creator betweens SUP files:

EnSubDVDSubEdit.sup

http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/444/endvdsubeditsubtitlecreator9ld.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

EnSubPGCDemux.sup

http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/3484/enpgcdemuxsubtitlecreator1yc.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

EnSubRip.srt

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/79/subrip6cr.jpg (http://imageshack.us) (Screenshot from Subtitles Workhsop)

The closest values seems to be between PGCDemux and SubRip.


Concusion: I thing the SUP files are extracted correctly by DVDSubEdit (excluding the delay, maybe), but the OCR to srt timing seems to be not correct because of the proggresive negative delay.

I know CoNS have some DVDs for testing. I hope he can help too.

enjoy,
Mtz

[jeanl]

Mtz, could you post the .sup file on yousendit.com? They're not big I guess. This would allow me to make sense of all this. It is possible that PGCDemux and DVDSubEdit don't get the same delay: DVDSubEdit removes the PTS of the first navpack it finds in the VOB file. I suspect that PGCDemux subtract the PTS of the first navpack in the PGC you're demuxing. This might be different if there's another PGC before the one you demuxed.

In any case, what makes you say that SubRip gets the right value? Visual inspection?
jeanl

[Mtz]

In any case, what makes you say that SubRip gets the right value? Visual inspection?
jeanl
Visual inspection. But as you can see in the example screenshots from SubtitesCreator, the SUP timings seems to be OK.
The files are uploaded here. (http://rapidshare.de/files/19040291/TestSubs_D9_2.rar.html)

enjoy,
Mtz

[jeanl]

Thanks Mtz... May I suggest that you use yousendit.com rather than rapidshare? It's a real pain to download anything from there (finding where to click, waiting a while while they do their pitch etc etc)...
I'll take a look at the files...
Jeanl

[jeanl]

I'm really puzzled here... The DVDSubEdit .sup file has a first spu at PTS 5297292 (58.80s) and the PGCDemux .sup has it at PTS 5342337 (59.30s)! I'm not sure how that came to be! To really figure it out, I would need a bit of the VOB file as well so I can see where the difference comes from. I could see how DVDSubEdit would show a PTS that's later than PGCDemux, but not smaller...
??
jeanl

[Mtz]

Files sent. Check your mail and your PM.

enjoy,
Mtz

[jeanl]

Thanks Mtz
OK now this makes sense.
- In the VOB, there's a first tiny VOBU 1/1 starting at PTS 45045 and ending at 90090. This cell isn't referenced in the movie PGC.
- This is followed by the normal cell 2/1 which starts at PTS 21021 (there's a clock reset here).
- The first subpic of the english stream has a raw PTS of 5318313 (LBA 10876).
- Because DVDSubEdit does not extract based on the PGC, it does not know VCID 1/1 shouldn't be taken into account. As a result, it computes the adjusted PTS of the first subpic as:
(5318313-45045-21021+90090) = 5342337 which yields 59.300 s. In other words, DVDSubEdit adjust the PTS by taking into accound the PTS reset after VCID 1/1.
- PGCDemux by contrast knows that VCID1/1 shouldn't be included (because it's demuxing by PGC). Its adjusted PTS is:
(5318313-21021) = 5297292 which yields 58.800s.

So this all makes sense. I believe PGCDemux is right here. The first VCID should not be taken into account as it isn't part of the movie PGC. I'm not sure whether this should be corrected in DVDSubEdit, which really isn't a demuxer...

Jeanl

[mpucoder]

Both programs are right, you just have to know the perspective. DVDSubEdit is giving timecodes relative to the multiplexed titleset, while PgcDemux can give a title relative view (among others).

[CoNS]

Hmmm, I think it's somewhat "dangerous" if it's left as it is.

IMHO the best solution would be to limit the ability to save .SUP files to cases where there's an .IFO file present, in connection with the loaded .VOB files. So that the PGC info in the .IFO file can be taken into account when saving the .SUP...

If you don't want to go into this, I think would be better to remove the .SUP file function, or keep it as a (hidden) function for debugging purposes only. At the very least I think you should issue a warning when saving a .SUP.

[Mtz]

If SubRip at this moment cannot offer precise timing I prefer to use the timings from sup files generated by PGCDemux or DVDSubEdit than load in DVDSubEdit, OCR to srt and obtain the srt with correct timings.
I hope jeanl to solve the sup > ocr > srt timings correct.
I'm glad to offer my little help to this wonderful application, jeanl.
enjoy,
Mtz

[jeanl]

Mtz, currently DVDSubEdit will give you exactly the same timing value in the .sup and .srt files. The formula is the same (it was not before I fixed the bug in that last version).
The case is that DVDSubEdit and PGCDemux will not necessarily give you the same timing. I'm not sure what to say about it.
My opinion is that it all depends how you demux your video. Presumably, you want a sup to remux in the video. If that's the case, I think you should use PGCDemux since it will demux both the video and the subpics (and the audio). The "save as sup" option in DVDSubEdit was meant to be a convenience rather than a full demuxing feature, for which you would need to specify the starting VCID etc...
jeanl

[odbo2005]

Dear jeanl
Is it possible to add effects to orginal subtitle in DCSQT?

[jeanl]

odbo2005, what kind of effect do you have in mind? At this point, the answer is no: you can't add DCSQTs, so you can't add effects like wipes and fades. If there's enough demand for it, I might add that at one point, but I've seen more people wanting to remove wipes and fades than wanting to add them! :)
Jeanl

[odbo2005]

Jeanl,I want to make subtitle in my DVD like karaoke,
include 2 music track & 2subtitle,one for normal & one for karaoke.
The wipe effect is my nessary.
I can make 2 same subtitle in DVD,than add wipe effect to
one for karaoke,if DVDSubEdit can do this.

[jeanl]

Sorry but DVDSubEdit can't do that at this point.
Beside, I believe you're talking about horizontal wipe effect, and that can't really be done with multiple DCSQTs. If your subtitle is longer than the width of the screen, you can't adjust the startx position outside of the screen to make it move left for example. If I'm not mistaken, these kinds of wipes have to be done by encoding and displaying multiple SPUs ...
Jeanl

[mpucoder]

In karaoke the color of the text changes as the words are sung - this is what I believe odbo2005 wants to do. And it is properly called a wipe, so is revealing the text without repositioning it (it's a wipe from transparent). If the text moves it's called a scroll.
Anyway, to do a wipe you need CHG_COLCON and only one spu.

[jeanl]

OK I get it, mistook a wipe for a scroll!!! Sorry at the moment DVDSubEdit can't do that stuff. I suppose what would be needed would be a way to add DCSQTs, adjusting their timing, and editing the commands in each DCSQT including the CHG_COLCON. That would be a lot of work, I'm afraid...
jeanl

[odbo2005]

Dear Jeanl
Yes,the wipe DCSQT command is mor Complex than scroll & fade.
It's a hard work,I thing so...
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f89/choring/wipe.gif

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f89/choring/wipe_command.gif

[phusg]

Greetings Jeanl et al,

Enjoyed another DVD film this weekend with subtitles nicely repositioned vertically downwards as far as possible!

Only now when I try to burn the adjusted DVD files with Nero I get an error along the lines of, 'File repositioning failed, DVD files not a multiple of 2k'. My question is whether it is possible that DVDSubEdit could have changed the size of the DVD files (even slightly)? I'm now burning the original .iso without problems.

regards,
Pete

[phusg]

Greetings Jeanl et al,

Enjoyed another DVD film this weekend with subtitles nicely repositioned vertically downwards as far as possible!

Only now when I try to burn the adjusted DVD files with Nero I get an error along the lines of, 'File repositioning failed, DVD files not a multiple of 2k'. My question is whether it is possible that DVDSubEdit could have changed the size of the DVD files (even slightly)? I'm now burning the original .iso without problems.

regards,
Pete

Shit, sorry, spoke too soon. Data verification just failed after burning the .iso, so it looks like the problem is all mine! Sorry...

[doggersen]

...I know this subject have been touched before, but just wanted to hear when we can expect (if at all? :)), an option to have the subtitles centered. I know it partly centers subtitles, but not on those subs for hearing impaired where the subtitles are positioned under the characters talking (subtitles practically flying all over the screen).

Also, i know this have also been touched before, but is it technically impossible to have your program edit movies that are "write protected" (i.e. like an image mounted in daemon tools!).

[jeanl]

no, you can't edit an ISO mounted DVD because the mounted files are read-only, and there's nothing that DVDSubEdit can do about that... Sorry. About centering, I"m not sure what you would like... YOu can already reposition the subs exactly where you like them (use the mouse, and drag the subs anywhere you like). I'm guessing you mean when there is text in 2 different places in the picture, and you'd like to be able to move them independently. I haven't implemented that, not too easy either, but I'll put that on the wish list...
jeanl

[doggersen]

Thanks for the answers!

The thing about multiple subs on the screen at once in different places, I haven't really thought about. But I guess some Hearing paired subs has that, so it's great that you will try and find a solution for that.

But it was actually not exactly what i meant.
What I'm thinking about are those hearing impaired subs where the subtitles are not in the middle of the screen at the bottom as normal, but instead they are situated under the characters speaking in the movie.
It's not that they are multiple places at once (at least not always), but that they at one point are displayed at the bottom, and the next subtitle that appears might be situated at the very top (because a character in the upper part of the screens says
something).
It's those subs that i would like to have AUTOMATICALLY centered both vertically and horizontially :)

I've taken the liberty to actually EMAIL you a subtitle file, so you can see the phenomena for yourself. Hope that's okay!

[jeanl]

OK I see, that's probably easier to achieve....
jeanl

[christopheramos]

Hi, I am kind of confused over subtitles versus captions for the hearing impaired when it comes to using DVDSubEdit.

This is an image from a tv show I want to remove the subtitles from. The audio language is in English, and the words at the bottom are Swedish. So I am guessing the words at the bottom are subtitles.

Given that, can DVDSubEdit remove these subtitles and the black boxes the words are in?

What about removing the number 5 at the top, can it do that to?

Thanks!
Chris :)

[setarip_old]

Hi!

When you initially captured this TV show and created the DVD, did you somehow create a separate subtitle/subpic stream, or did you (more likely) capture the onscreen subtitles as a PERMANENT part of the video?

If your DVD doesn't contain a separate subtitle/subpic stream, there's nothing DVDSubEdit can do for you...

[christopheramos]

Yeah, the subtitles are on there permanently. They can't be turned off and on with the hit of a button or anything.

So you're saying they can't be removed?

[setarip_old]

Again, if your DVD doesn't contain a separate subtitle/subpic stream, there's nothing DVDSubEdit can do for you...

[jeanl]

christopheramos, setarip is right, DVDSubEdit can't help you with that. In general, it will be pretty much impossible to remove these subtitles and recover the picture under them. Sometimes you can do that for a small logo, but what you describe, I'm afraid you'll have to live with it...
jeanl

[r0lZ]

If you reencode the video (with VirtualDubMod or AviSynth) you can try to add the "delogo" filter. Works pretty well to remove a permanent logo like the "5" in your example.
It is theoretically possible to remove also the hardcoded subpics, but since those subpics are constantly changing, you cannot define them with enough precision. Therefore, the part of the image under the subpics will be very damaged. IMO, it's better and simpler to keep the subpics.

[andryshik]

Hi All!

Sorry if this question was asked before...

I try to change colors (and/or transparencies), then press "save modifications" (all as described in guide by CoNS on videohelp.com). If I open these files again with DVDSubedit, it shows me new (modified) colors, all seems OK. But both PowerDVD and standalone player shows old (initial) colors! What have I do wrong? ;)

[r0lZ]

Don't forget to "apply to all", or you will change only the colors of the current subpic.

[jeanl]

Hi All!

Sorry if this question was asked before...

I try to change colors (and/or transparencies), then press "save modifications" (all as described in guide by CoNS on videohelp.com). If I open these files again with DVDSubedit, it shows me new (modified) colors, all seems OK. But both PowerDVD and standalone player shows old (initial) colors! What have I do wrong? ;)
Does DVDSubEdit show new colors on all subtitles, or just one? Are you sure you modified all the subtitle streams, or just one? Are you looking at the wrong subtitle stream in PowerDVD?
jeanl

[andryshik]

Hi!

r0lZ, I didn't ;)

2 jeanl:
It shows new colors on all subs. There is only one subpicture stream... :confused:

[jeanl]

???? That's very strange. Can you describe how you changed the colors? Did you change the CLUT colors, or did you change the color assignment (i.e., change the CLUT tile used for a given pixel)?
Jeanl

[andryshik]

2Jeanl:

I've set transparency to 15, click on color square for 'p' pixels, click on yellow color (initially subs was white and semi-transparent), press OK. Then select Edit > Apply last modifications to all and then File > Save all modifications. Result is old (unmodified) transparency and colors... I'm still :confused:

[jeanl]

What's strange is that when you reload in DVDSubEdit, you get the right modified colors.
Oh wait. Do you have multiple DCSQTs in your subtitles? (look at the DCSQT selector, does it have multiple values)? That could be the explanation, if you only modify the first DCSQT, and it's followed by another one you don't modify, then you won't see the modification. The area at the bottom left will also show you how many DCSQTs you have in any given subpic...
Jeanl

[jeanl]

P.S. You could post your .sup file with the IFO if you want me to take a look. Use yousendit.com to host the .sup file temporarily...
Jeanl

[andryshik]

Jeanl, thanx for your patience ;)

Yes, you're right - there are more than one DCSQTs in these subpics!

I dont't understand meanwhile how to apply changes made to all DCSQTs to all subpics... But I will try :)

:thanks:

[jeanl]

Easy:
1) Select "All DCSQTs" in the DCSQT drop down selector
2) Make your changes to transparency/color
3) Apply to all.

That should do it...
Jeanl
P.S. It's normal to have 2 DCSQT, one to start the subtitle and one that simply stops displaying it. If that's what you have, it does not explain your problem. If you have more than 2, and more than 1 has a color or transparency assignment command, that could explain your problem.

[andryshik]

There's 8 DCSQTs :) They continuously changes transparency from 0 to 9 and then to 0.

Maybe I dont't understand something, but I have no "All DCSQTs" position in drop list... Only "DCSQT 0" - "DCSQT 7"

[jeanl]

You probably don't have the latest unofficial version (which I have forgotten to make official!). Download
http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEdit1.324.zip
and you'll be in business (hopefully!).
Jeanl

[andryshik]

Jeanl, it works!!! You're right, it was version 1.322. Version 1.324 works fine in my case.

:thanks:

[jeanl]

cool!
jeanl

[jeanl]

Version 1.33 of DVDSubEdit is now available here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/)...


This is a small update with a few bug fixes and a couple improvements.


Added display of timing in the subpic info.
Added ability to change the transparency or color in all DCSQT at the same time.
Fixed a crash that could happen when removing hearing impaired text.
Fixed a crash that could happen upon startup on Win ME and Win 98.
Added a quick fix for the startup crash problem. Put a line in your ini file with NoSize=1 to avoid resizing the window on startup (which causes a crash).
Fixed a problem in the timing info saved in .srt files, thanks mpucoder for the clarification.
Cleaned up the GUI.


Enjoy...
Jeanl

[dirio49]

NIce program.

thanks jean:D

[President]

Version 1.33 of DVDSubEdit is now available
Enjoy...
Jeanl
Great thank's!
Did you plan to include a direct command editor for sub commands in all DCSQTs? E.g. I want to remove "Stop" commands in some subtitles.

[jeanl]

Well, I didn't really plan on doing that, it could be quite tricky. In the meantime, you can delay the Stop command until the next SPU, which will achieve almost the same result as removing it. Simply change the duration of the subpic to its maximum value...
jeanl

[President]

Well, I didn't really plan on doing that, it could be quite tricky. In the meantime, you can delay the Stop command until the next SPU, which will achieve almost the same result as removing it. Simply change the duration of the subpic to its maximum value...
jeanl
I have a DVD (Wimbledon) with annoying feature of subtitles. Subtitles makes with "fade (in/out) effect" and most of it displaying with flash (fade-in - normal displaying - fade-out - none - very short flash). I think the "Stop" commands are reason of this flashing.

[jeanl]

President, you can post a small snipped of your subs for us to look at. Save one of the streams as a .sup file and post that somewhere. I'll take a look at it. The stop command should not make it flash, there must be something else.
But you could also edit your VOB with VOBEdit yourself. You'd have to find the stop command (0x02 I think) and replace it with an "end of command" 0x0F I think, and see if that changes anything on that particular subtitle. A bit tedious, but OK for a test.

jeanl

[mpucoder]

But you could also edit your VOB with VOBEdit yourself
AFAIK there is no way to save a modified file with VobEdit, that part was never written.
But I, too, would like to see what makes it flash, probably a mistake in the sequence of commands used for fade out. Most likely the last DCSQT contains only a stop command and no CHG_COLCON, so the subpicture reverts to its original set of colors and contrast established by SET_COLOR and SET_CONTR. The terminate command is 0xFF

[Sir Didymus]

Quite inerestingly, I am facing almost the same type of troubles reported by President, about the "Stop" command...

The original sup file, with the fade in/fade out effects is this one [sorry, ~50MB]:

http://rapidshare.de/files/22283396/Subpictures_27.sup.html

Well, trying to decompile the file in the sst format, both with VSRIP+VSCONV or with Subrip 1.50B3, in order to import it in Scenarist or in DVDPlanner, lead to a code similar to the following (21 pictures are sufficient to show the first subpicture effect):


st_format 2
Display_Start non_forced
TV_Type PAL
Tape_Type NON_DROP
Pixel_Area (0 572)
Directory E:\tmp\out
Subtitle out
Display_Area (0 2 719 574)
Contrast (15 15 15 0)

PA (0 0 255 - - - )
E1 (255 0 0 - - - )
E2 (0 0 0 - - - )
BG (255 255 255 - - - )

SP_NUMBER START END FILE_NAME
Color (7 6 4 4)
Contrast (0 0 0 0)
0001 00:00:02:08 00:00:02:09 out_0001.bmp
Contrast (1 2 1 0)
0002 00:00:02:10 00:00:02:11 out_0002.bmp
Contrast (2 3 2 0)
0003 00:00:02:12 00:00:02:13 out_0003.bmp
Contrast (3 5 3 0)
0004 00:00:02:14 00:00:02:15 out_0004.bmp
Contrast (4 6 4 0)
0005 00:00:02:16 00:00:02:17 out_0005.bmp
Contrast (5 8 5 0)
0006 00:00:02:18 00:00:02:19 out_0006.bmp
Contrast (6 9 6 0)
0007 00:00:02:20 00:00:02:21 out_0007.bmp
Contrast (7 11 7 0)
0008 00:00:02:22 00:00:02:23 out_0008.bmp
Contrast (8 12 8 0)
0009 00:00:02:24 00:00:03:00 out_0009.bmp
Contrast (9 14 9 0)
0010 00:00:03:01 00:00:03:02 out_0010.bmp
Contrast (10 15 10 0)
0011 00:00:03:03 00:00:05:10 out_0011.bmp
Contrast (9 14 9 0)
0012 00:00:05:11 00:00:05:12 out_0012.bmp
Contrast (8 12 8 0)
0013 00:00:05:13 00:00:05:14 out_0013.bmp
Contrast (7 11 7 0)
0014 00:00:05:15 00:00:05:16 out_0014.bmp
Contrast (6 9 6 0)
0015 00:00:05:17 00:00:05:18 out_0015.bmp
Contrast (5 8 5 0)
0016 00:00:05:19 00:00:05:20 out_0016.bmp
Contrast (4 6 4 0)
0017 00:00:05:21 00:00:05:22 out_0017.bmp
Contrast (3 5 3 0)
0018 00:00:05:23 00:00:05:24 out_0018.bmp
Contrast (2 3 2 0)
0019 00:00:06:00 00:00:06:01 out_0019.bmp
Contrast (1 2 1 0)
0020 00:00:06:02 00:00:06:03 out_0020.bmp
Contrast (0 0 0 0)
0021 00:00:06:04 00:00:06:05 out_0021.bmp


By reauthoring the sst stream with MuxMan, the result seems ok (with DVDSubEdit all of the pictures and the transparency levels are ok, apart the duration ---> should'n be two frames, i.e. 80 ms ?):

[img=http://img446.imageshack.us/img446/9531/image12gr.th.gif] (http://img446.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image12gr.gif)

Anyway the playback (just used a sw player for the moment...) is flashing...

Edit: forgot to report that the reauthoring with the original sup asset, using MuxMan, leads to no problems...; also the sup file is one of the assets of "Spiderman", R2...

[mpucoder]

SD I think we're talking about two different problems here. I'm downloading the sup right now, but my guess is there are no stop commands and the sst file is wrong. The way it is written the subs should flash (on for one frame, off for one frame). Change the stop time to 00:00:00:00 and they will be compiled in either Scenarist or MuxMan (not sure about DVDPlanner on this) with no stop code.
But this is an ugly way to do a fade, only one bitmap is required with multiple DCSQT's using the CHG_COLCON command to change contrast - which, I believe, is the way Scenarist performs a fade if compiled as that effect. Note: sst does not support effects, only scp

[Sir Didymus]

I see - and sorry for being OT...

Well, the point is that I did not find any means of translating the sup file into a working sst file because all of the available tools I tryed (subtitle format translators) are actually placing stop commands into the compiled output.

I also already tryed your suggestion - to set the end time of each SPU to 00:00:00:00, but the stop command after each picture is still there...

http://img450.imageshack.us/img450/2503/image28et.th.gif (http://img450.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image28et.gif)


Anyway, the CHG_COLCON command is not used in the original asset (this is the reason the file is huge); I understand it is a bad practice of authoring, but it's here in the original asset, so it should be possible, with the same procedure, to "simulate" the fade effect using the sst format, right ?

[mpucoder]

My mistake (doing too many things at one time), duration of 00:00:00:00 in the mxp file removes the stop command. In an sst file you set the stop time to a minus sign, eg
0001 00:00:02:08 - out_0001.bmp

[Sir Didymus]

:)

A big, big thanks...

I think that asking if somebody knows some reference document describing the SST format would lead to the standard "use the search" answer, right ?

:cool:

Well, thanks again...
SD

[mpucoder]

http://www.mpucoder.com/Muxman/mxp/sst.html
and
http://www.dvdmadeeasy.com/downloads/acrobat/SubtitleFileFormat.pdf

[jeanl]

AFAIK there is no way to save a modified file with VobEdit, that part was never written.

mpucoder, I do that all the time! As soon as you enter anything in the boxes, it's saved instantly (well, probably saved when you quit)...
Jeanl

[kumi]

.SST has a limited command set, so doing advanced DCSQT stuff really is a pain, since you're forced to work frame-by-frame.

DVDMaestro's .STL format is more comfortable to use, but I am unaware of any tool that would accurately translate your .SUP commands into $fade* and $wipe* .STL commands...

[jeanl]

If there's enough people interested, I could add a couple functions to DVDSubEdit (it's been asked before)
- Remove fade
- Add fade
As far as swipes, that might be a bit harder...
jeanl

[kumi]

Wow, I would be very grateful for an Add Fade function :)

[r0lZ]

mpucoder, I do that all the time! As soon as you enter anything in the boxes, it's saved instantly (well, probably saved when you quit)...
JeanlNo, instantly! You don't have to save or quit. It's even somewhat dangerous, but it can be useful if you want to test your changes immediately, without having to reload the file and find the right LBA to change the value again. (However, this trick doesn't work if you need to test with a program requiring exclusive access on the VOB file.)

[mpucoder]

I didn't know that - good thing the rippers I use leave the files as read-only. (I just checked, and that is the reason none of my files get changed when I play with them in VobEdit)

@SD - the first sub in that sup file does not have a stop command (did not check any further) - so none of these programs can make a valid sst from subs without stop commands!?

[jeanl]

No, instantly! You don't have to save or quit. It's even somewhat dangerous, but it can be useful if you want to test your changes immediately, without having to reload the file and find the right LBA to change the value again. (However, this trick doesn't work if you need to test with a program requiring exclusive access on the VOB file.)
You're right r0lZ, I've actually used that feature extensively, now that I think of it, great for testing!!!
jeanl

[jeanl]

Wow, I would be very grateful for an Add Fade function :)
kumi, just out of curiosity, what would you use this for?
jeanl

[kumi]

I would use it for subtitling normal dialogue lines. If used with a light touch, i.e. 3-frame fadein + 5-frame fadeout, the effect looks professional and increases readability a little bit (IMHO). I do it in DVDMaestro now, but that authoring suite annoys me...mostly because I can't use my preferred workflow: SSA->MaestroSBT+VDub->MuxMan->DVDSubEdit.

It's definetely eye candy, but 99% of the DVDs I watch are subtitled, and I guess I've grown picky about things ;)

[Sir Didymus]

Wow, I would be very grateful for an Add Fade function :)

Want to second the vote for an add fade function...

Jeanl, very very nice application your DVDSubEdit !!!

Cheers,
SD

[jeanl]

You guys will have to give me some time! :D
jeanl

[mpucoder]

If used with a light touch, i.e. 3ms fadein + 5ms fadeoutI'm not clear on what this means, as one frame is either 33ms or 40ms long depending on tv system, how can a fade be done in less than one frame? Or does this refer to the time between steps? Since there are 15 steps would this mean an overall fadein of 45ms and fadeout of 75ms?

[Sir Didymus]

@SD - the first sub in that sup file does not have a stop command (did not check any further) - so none of these programs can make a valid sst from subs without stop commands!?

That's true, and that's the reason I thought President was facing some similar troubles with another title: it seems to me that the reauthoring using such type of sub assets can only be performed based on the vobs (i.e. with the integrated demuxer of muxman :) ) or based on the stream as is, straight demuxed in the sup format, and authored by applications supporting this compiled format.

No modification seems possible at all to the picture contents, apart by using DVDSubEdit, since, apparently, with this type of asset no program can make a valid sst from subs without stop commands.

Even with formats different from sst the problem of automatically decompiling such type of assets seems unsolved: tryed for example the usage of the very basic DVD SupTools (DVDSupDecode + DVDSupEncode), that fails too in this case...

Well, thanks for the references to the sst format...

Hem, to say the truth I have read the page you pointed out at least three other times...

So, sigh, let me go reading it again... :scared:
Hopefully this time I will not miss some important points...

SD

[CoNS]

Want to second the vote for an add fade function...I'm for a remove fade function! Don't like those fading subs!! :)

[President]

President, you can post a small snipped of your subs for us to look at.
jeanl
Uploaded .sup and appropriate .ifo (for original colors) here:

http://rapidshare.de/files/22341335/Wimb.zip.html (436 kb).

Thank's jeanl and mpucoder. But... one thing. May be it's a not subtitles bug. Today I watch this movie on PowerDVD 6.0. All is Ok. Flashing appear in PowerDVD 7.0 only. Who is right? I don't know. Maybe you helps me. I can't uploading a big files like VOB. Maybe you can detect an error by .sup file only.

[President]

I'm for a remove fade function! Don't like those fading subs!! :)
For remove a fade effect just choose "All DCSQTs" in DVDSubEdit and set it transparency (p, e1, e2) to max (15). Apply last modification to all. Save all modification. That's all. Fade was killed:-). Extremely fast operation:-).

[mpucoder]

This is what I get as the interpretation of the first sub
time commands
0 set_color 1023
00:00 set_contr 3330
set_darea 0,719,2,574
set_dspxa 0x0006,0x04c1
sta_dsp
cmd_end

3 set_color 1023
00:01 set_contr 6660
cmd_end

7 set_color 1023
00:02 set_contr 9990
cmd_end

10 set_color 1023
00:03 set_contr ccc0
cmd_end

14 set_color 1023
00:04 set_contr fff0
cmd_end

119 set_color 1023
01:09 set_contr ccc0
cmd_end

123 set_color 1023
01:10 set_contr 9990
cmd_end

126 set_color 1023
01:11 set_contr 6660
cmd_end

130 set_color 1023
01:12 set_contr 3330
cmd_end

133 set_color 1023
01:13 set_contr 0000
stp_dsp
cmd_end
And I don't see a problem with this, the last DCSQT sets the contrast to transparent and stops the display, so it looks like a bug in the software player.

edit: the time column contains the stm value first (clock ticks/1024) and then ss:ff

[kumi]

I'm not clear on what this means, as one frame is either 33ms or 40ms long depending on tv system, how can a fade be done in less than one frame? Or does this refer to the time between steps? Since there are 15 steps would this mean an overall fadein of 45ms and fadeout of 75ms?
Oops. I meant to write "3-frame fadein + 5-frame fadeout". DVDMaestro's GUI labels the Fade edit fields as "frms"... Somehow that made my wires cross, and it came out as "ms".

I should vow to stop posting in the wee hours of the morning...

[mpucoder]

I see, so what President has in the above would be a 5 frame fade (in and out)?

[jeanl]

This suggests a very simple UI for adding a fade-in/out:
- Two check boxes for fade in and fade out
- Number of frames for fade-in
- Number of frames for fade-out
- Perhaps a button to remove the fades in one shot.

and of course, the traditional "apply to all"...

I suspect going linearly may not be the best way to do it. mpucoder, do you know if the transparency encoding in SPUs is somewhat "perceptual" (i.e., if you go linear, you'll get a nice even fade in/out)?
Jeanl

[kumi]

I see, so what President has in the above would be a 5 frame fade (in and out)?Yes, that looks exactly like a 5-frame fade (in and out), as created by DVDMaestro.

i.e. a linear transparency progression like so: 3->6->9->12->15->12->9->6->3->0, with a stop at the last DCSQT.

EDIT: Here's (http://pastebin.com/762858) the DVDSubEdit dump of a DVDMaestro 5-frame fadein/out (NTSC), in case anyone wants to see.

[kumi]

I suspect going linearly may not be the best way to do it.
I made a little stub DVD so you can see linear fading clearly: http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=E965B5AB5B261B57 (7 MB)

Track 1 shows a linear fade using all 16 available transparency values. Looks pretty good to my eyes (as decoded by ivivideo.ax v6.0.6.56)

Track 2 shows noticeable stuttering, because it has more steps than available transparency values.

(I wrote "xx-color fadein" in the subs... i meant "xx-value fadein" of course :stupid:

[Sir Didymus]

...Today I watch this movie on PowerDVD 6.0. All is Ok. Flashing appear in PowerDVD 7.0 only....


Just to confirm: I replicated the problem (muxed back your sup file with some other video and audio assets). With PowerDVD 7.0 the first subpicture is "flashing". Playing the same title with Win DVD 6.0, no problem... It seems it's really a bug in Power DVD 7.0...

Cheers,
SD

Edit: just to be totally sure, I did also a quick check with the Philips Verifier...
Not a single one of the reported "glitches" is related to the sup asset...
I am very confident, if you burn your title and test it with a standalone, it will be ok!

Edit2: indeed, the fade-in fade-out test title of kumi is playing fine also in Power DVD 7.0... :confused:

[President]

Many many thank's, guys. I am satisfied.

[X-Calibar]

I was surfing www.google.com searching for a program that can extract/replace individual subtitles due to problems like mispellings, and other typos...
When I quickly found DVDSubEdit's original topic :O I checked through all 29 pages... and although DVDSubEdit cannot replace subs yet...

Wow! I've favorited this on my long list of programs I like to check progress on. Very professional and easy to use ;)
Just wanted to throw out my personal thank you~Jeanl:thanks:

[jeanl]

Thanks! Your feedback is highly appreciated!
I haven't worked on DVDSubEdit much in the past couple months, but development isn't on hold! It's just that I have some other stuff competing for attention (like, construction work at my house! :D )
Jeanl

[borry]

Hi,

I`ve tried to extract some subpictures from a dvd menu to a .ppm file.
When I place this subpicture over the original background the subpicture looks stretched.
I don`t know if this is a bug or are there some settings in dvdsubedit which i can adjust?

I`ve uploaded a photoshop project with the original background, a subpicture ripped with suprip, and a subpicture ripped with dvdsubedit for comperision.


http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=D3F7192B1B121784

The purpase of ripping to .ppm is that I wish to ad an extra button in the menu.

[jeanl]

borry, this might be a bug, I'll have to look into it, but I'm busy these days (remodelling of our house)...
jeanl

[borry]

@jeanl

If I set dvdsubedit to 4:3 display the ripped subpicture isn`t stretched.
The original menu is 16:9 pan&scan.

[jeanl]

mmm, so that's definitely a bug. The bitmap should be saved the same way regardless of what the display mode is...
jeanl

[unno]

I have a question. I'm not sure if it's somehow possible currently, but if not, I would like to suggest it as a future feature. I've got a DVD with subs that look like this.

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/6104/subsdp7.gif

In fact, this is a fairly standard practice with Asian DVD's. I'd like to be able to crop the first line of Asian characters out, leaving just the English. I tried doing this using the OCR and then going through subpic-by-subpic, but the OCR often recognizes the Asian characters as part of the English characters. Therefore, it's impossible to delete them. A feature which allowed for x number of pixels to be cleared off the top of all subpics would be awesome.

[jeanl]

mmm, it's hard to envision many other uses for this kind of feature. I'm thinking it's a lot of effort for a very specific use... But I can understand your frustration. YOu can certainly do it subpic by subpic by erasing the characters one by one (but maybe not), and in any case, this must be quite tedious...
I"m not sure I can put that in though...
Jeanl

[LogicDeLuxe]

I tried DVDSubEdit. It starts when there is no ini file. And when I try to start it again, it crashes immediately, unless I delete the ini file before that.

[President]

I tried DVDSubEdit. It starts when there is no ini file. And when I try to start it again, it crashes immediately, unless I delete the ini file before that.
Try to insert such (first) line in the ini-file after [DVDSubEdit] header. It helps me for the same problem.

[DVDSubEdit]
NoSize=1
MainWindowPos=90 78 1100 834
...............

[jeanl]

I still don't understand where this crash comes from. The line in the ini file is a band-aid against it, but I'm really puzzled. The problem is that this does not happen on my system, so it's very hard to figure out what's really going on...
Sorry about that...
Jeanl

[Mtz]

Hello!
Some months ago we discussed about the "jumping" subtitles when modifing the vertical position. I checked all letters from the bottom lines of the subtitles and with only one letter the subtitle is not moved at the bottom of the desired border.
You can see in the screenshot and this is because of the 6-th letter from the last word. Here I put X instead of the "t with something under it" of the subtitles word: >> divorXat <<.
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/3356/tzletterlq6.th.jpg (http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tzletterlq6.jpg)

enjoy,
Mtz

[blutach]

I suspect that is supposed to be a c with a "cedilla" accent.

Regards

[LogicDeLuxe]

Try to insert such (first) line in the ini-file after [DVDSubEdit] header. It helps me for the same problem.

[DVDSubEdit]
NoSize=1
MainWindowPos=90 78 1100 834
...............Thanks. It does not crash anymore.

Maybe this should be mentioned on the homepage.

[jeanl]

Version 1.34 of DVDSubEdit is now available here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/)...


This is a tiny update with a bug fixe and a one improvement.


Pressing "Hide subpic" and applying to all didn't hide all subpics. This is now fixed.
It's now possible to move subpics by odd numbers of pixels (imagine that!).


Enjoy...
Jeanl

[blutach]

Thanks Jean.

Regards

[Kerensky]

Are there any plans to add a "teaching" feature to the OCR? I've found the OCR to be very accurate, but almost always there are some letters which are mis-read throughout the movie. For instance, in one movie everything was basically perfect except f's were detected as l's throughout. I know I could manually go through and correct these errors, but that's pretty time consuming.

Anyway, great app either way.

[jeanl]

Well, GOCR (which DVDSubEdit uses for the ocr stuff) has a "teaching" thing... But I haven't enabled that (it would require a bit of a UI, plus a database, and quite a few changes to the code)... Maybe in a later version. Perhaps it would be wise to use SupRip if your main task is OCR...
Jeanl

[President]

Version 1.34 of DVDSubEdit is now available here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/)...

Thank's, Jean!
:thanks:

[kmac61]

I've never had a problem with past versions in moving subs down to better match my tv (4:3) but with 1.34 I happened to pick an odd pixel # which caused the subs to break up. Its hard to describe but they look like a comb was dragged thru horizontaly.
Moving them to an even # they stay solid. The effect is only apparent on a tv, not on pc. Maybe it's just this title (Trois Coulers Bleu) I'll try some others

[jeanl]

mmm, that's not good! I must admit I didn't run any tests using a TV... I'll try that.
Jeanl

[kmac61]

i happen to have 2 identical dvd players hooked up to my av, so I did a side by side with a clip from hard boiled on 2 rw's. Ideally I'd move -28 but to test i did one -5, the other -6.(to eliminate letterbox area as problem) The -5 shows same "breaking" so for 4:3 ntsc tv's I'd stick to even #'s
otherwise subedit is my most useful prog.

[mpucoder]

That's caused by the top and bottom fields now being reversed. Within the command area should be a SET_DSPXA (06) command, try swapping the addresses.

[jeanl]

I thought I took care of that!!! I'll have to double-check, again, sorry about that!
Jeanl

[kaypark]

i happen to have 2 identical dvd players hooked up to my av, so I did a side by side with a clip from hard boiled on 2 rw's. Ideally I'd move -28 but to test i did one -5, the other -6.(to eliminate letterbox area as problem) The -5 shows same "breaking" so for 4:3 ntsc tv's I'd stick to even #'s
otherwise subedit is my most useful prog.

Hi Kmac, I might be the cause of your problems ;) as I have asked JeanL for the feature allowing an odd-number moving of subs. See description of my problem I posted at VideoHelp.com:
http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?p=1580753&highlight=#1580753

I have a 4:3 TV as well (Sony of some sort), and the settop player I have now is Panasonic DMR EH55. This player is picky about subtitles that start vertically on an odd-line; it causes flicker on the TV. My previous player was Samsung SV-DVD1E and it was processing subs correctly, irrespective of where they start.

JeanL: thanks for sorting my issue but to prevent problems for other users, maybe the default vertical moving of DVDSubEdit should be by even numbers only (like pre-1.34), and there would be a box to untick in the Options dialogue where you could allow for moving subs by odd lines too (and you may wish to show some warning with link to this thread)

Kaypark

[jeanl]

Well, there has to be a way to move subpics by 1 line! and mpucoder outlined it. I must have a bug somewhere...
Jeanl

[thestig]

Hi, I'm new here but I have been using DVDSubEdit for some time :)

I was just wondering about a few things:

1) Why does the movie-area sometimes overlap the timeline? This only happens in very few movies that I edit, but what can be the reason for this?

2) One of my movies has the subtitles all over the place, is it possible to position all the subtitles to the same location somehow? Or what do you suppose is the easiest method to do this?

3) Why isn't there a global positioning system or something (eg. most subtitles have the same positioning in movies, but then you have the intro-sequence with credits where they have moved them further up - when you apply positioning changes to all subtitles, they don't all move to the same position, they move relative to their current position)?

[jeanl]

1) This would have to be a bug... Next thime this happens, make sure to make a note of which movie, whether it's NTSC, PAL, and whether it happens when you resize the window etc...

2) and 3) You can use the border tool to move them all to the same position: position the border where you want them, check "flush" so they will be drawn to the border whether's they're above or below the border, then apply to all...

jeanl

[thestig]

1) This would have to be a bug... Next thime this happens, make sure to make a note of which movie, whether it's NTSC, PAL, and whether it happens when you resize the window etc...

2) and 3) You can use the border tool to move them all to the same position: position the border where you want them, check "flush" so they will be drawn to the border whether's they're above or below the border, then apply to all...

jeanl
About the overlapping, my desktop resolution is 1920x1200, so I have a pretty huge workspace. It is probably because I resized the window of DVDSubEdit.


Thanks for the tip about the borders. This is brilliant except for one thing, it would be really nice to have vertical borders too. Some movies have the subtitles skewed off-center for some reason, and they can be a real pain in the butt to clean up :)

[jeanl]

Yes, vertical borders would be nice. I thought about adding them at one point, but I need to fix the bugs that have been reported, and I'm pretty busy elsewhere at this point...
Jeanl

[thestig]

Yeah, I understand. Maybe there is a better way than borders for the horizontal positioning, though. I was thinking, maybe a button to center all the subtitles would be better, maybe add a left and right button too, what do you think?

[Aryudsoh]

I want to make an anime DVD which has subtitles for signs as well as for dialogue. With this software I can postion the sign translation underneath the sign but is there anyway of having the sign tranlslation on-screen while a dialogue is running? I have seen this in some of my commercial anime-dvds but I have no idea how they do it.

[jeanl]

If you want two stubtitles at the same time (i.e., one for the sign and one for the dialog), they have to be authored together, in the same stream, in a single bitmap. You can't have two streams showing at the same time... DVDSubEdit can't help you with that.
Jeanl

[Aryudsoh]

If I author the subs for the signs and the dialogue in the same bitmap, is there a way I can use wipes to make them appear and disappear?

I don't know if it's possible to use wipes in DVDSubEdit but if not could the subs be positioned with DVDSubEdit and then used in conjunction with another program that uses wipes?

[jeanl]

You could wipes to make a portion appear and the other portion remain invisible, but you could do the same thing by authoring two independent bitmaps and displaying them in turn. I'm not sure what you're trying to do exactly. In any case, DVDSubEdit can't really modify or add swipes. It will show you the commands that are used in an existing swipe, but it won't let you add them to a normal subpic :(
Jeanl

[Aryudsoh]

OK. So it's not possible with DVDSubEdit. Shame because it seemed like the perfect choice for me for positioning subs under signs on the video. The problem comes when there are signs on the screen and dialogue taking place at the same time, so from browsing through the forums, I thought that using wipes would be the solution as described in this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=111007&goto=nextnewest).

That seems like it would work to have another line of dialogue appear above or below another but how do they do it in commercial DVDs where they have a subtitle for a sign at the top and then a few consecutive lines of dialogue while the sign translation is still at the top of the screen?

I hope that makes any sense to someone other than me.

Also I thought about displaying two independant bitmaps in turn, taking lines from the first one and adding them to the second but doesn't that cause flicker on standalones? Anyway that seems like the most viable solution so far.

[r0lZ]

DVDSubEdit is not a program to create a new subpic stream. It is designed to modify an existing stream without demultiplexing the VOB files. As a consequence, it is not possible to add new subpics, or to add something to an existing sub-picture, as that requires to have more room in the original stream to put the new data. It is impossible to do that without demultiplexing.

What you need is a real authoring program, with good subpic support. You will have to demux all streams, convert the subpic streams to images and modify then to include the signs you want, and recreate the VOBs with the authoring program. Of course, if you want to keep the original menus and/or bonuses, you will also have to recreate the whole DVD by importing the new title back in the original DVD. That's a complex job. If you really want to do it, you have to learn a lot of things, and to buy a good authoring program.

[Aryudsoh]

Well I have DVD-Lab Pro which I usually use for authoring. Would that be suitable for what I want to do?

I'm not worried about keeping original menus and bonuses. I'll just create new ones when I add the subtitles.

[r0lZ]

Well, I don't know DVD-Lab Pro too much, but it has support for the subpic streams. However, I'm not sure it supports real bitmaps as input.
Maybe you should ask this question at the DVD-Lab forum?

[Aryudsoh]

I'll do that. Thanks for all your help.

[ericf]

Hello.
I need some help with subtitle moving.
I need to move 3 subtitles about .20 seconds forward.
I authored the Substream with MaestorSBT and made the DVD in DVD-Lab Pro.
The problem is that MaestroSBT doesn't always keep to the timecodes in the script. In this case it means that some subs are too short and some too long.
I won't concentrate on that though.
I can see that subtitle duration is changed when pulling the lever but I cannot move the subtitle's timecode .20 seconds forward. I have more than .20 s to the next subtitle so that shouldn't be a problem.
Here is what the information about the first subtitle looks like:

Subpic# = 137
StreamID = 0x20
LBA = 236437
V/CID = 1/4
PTS = 40852812
Duration = 0.694s
TimeCode: 00:07:33,233 --> 00:07:33,927
Modified
DCSQT: 0
Start
Set Color: e2=7 e1=7 p=6 b=1
Set Transparency: e2=15 e1=15 p=15 b=0
Set Display Area: sx=0 ex=719 sy=2 ey=479
Set field indexes
End of commands
DCSQT: 1 -- Delay 0.693s
Stop

I need to know what to do to make the timecode change as I make the modifications.

Thanks.
ericf

[jeanl]

Normally, moving a sub back or forward is fairly easy in DVDSubEdit. Is that what you're trying to do?
There's a user manual that describes how to do that, both on the web page, and in the application itself. Are you finding that that's not working?
Jeanl

[jeanl]

OK, I think I see what you're describing: when I move a subpic, the time code is not updated... That's a bug. But if you save and reopen the vob with DVDSubEdit, you'll see that the timecode has indeed been changed. I'm going to have to fix that bug.
Jeanl

[jeanl]

Here's a quick quick bug fix. The timecode is now updated when you retime a subpic. Give this a shot...
Here's a direct link.
http://download.videohelp.com/DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEdit1.35.zip

Jeanl

[ericf]

Thanks for replying.
I did actually try to save and reload but there were no changes made.

The problem is that when I have modified the subtitle length and changed it's start/end time and tell the program to save nothing seems to happen to the stream.
I reload and the timecodes are the same.
I try playing the DVD from HD and no changes are apparent.
When using the command: Only show modified subpics I see no subpictures.

I don't know what else to do.
I'm following the guide but it seems like it's not working.
However, I was working from an .sst file so I can make the timing adjustments in the .sst document instead.

I did use your program to make the subtitles opaque.
Thanks.
ericf

[jeanl]

mmm, that's strange. I tested it this morning, and it was doing the right thing for me. The VOB files are saved instantly when you do that, and I'm not sure it tells you that anything has changed... Re-timing subpics is a bit special in that sense. But if you say that the VOB wasn't changed, this indicates a problem....
Jeanl

[r0lZ]

Are you sure the file is not read-only?

[jeanl]

I think DVDSubEdit complains if it is...
Jeanl

[ericf]

Yes, it complains if I haven't shut down a DVD player after checking for differences. The player is still linked to the files unless you shut down the program.
I'll check and see if the subtitles adjustment works in this new version if I need the timings to change universally.

Thanks.
ericf

[setarip_old]

@jeanl

If one selects "Only show forced subpics", then makes some modifications to those forced subpics, and then saves - Will the saved file contain ONLY the (modified) forced subpics, or will it include ALL subpics (including modified forced subpics) that were in the original subpic stream?

[jeanl]

It will include all subpics.
Jeanl

[setarip_old]

Thanks for that info - but let me pursue this a bit further:

(Assuming that there is a set of forced subtitles included as part of the primary subtitle stream)

If one selects "Only show forced subpics", and then selects "OCR selected subpics, and then selects "Save selected subpics as .SUP file", would that result in an .SUP file of the ENTIRE original subtitle stream or an .SUP file of ONLY the forced subpics?

**EDIT - I meant to say, "Save as SRT" - and, as you stated, it does work...

[jeanl]

When saving to a sup file, it would only save the selected subpics. So you wouldn't have the rest of them, just the forced subpics.

Jeanl

[setarip_old]

Thanks, that's great news! Your automated OCR is so fast that it will save a considerable amount of time (versus a program such as "SubRip") when adding forced subs to an .AVI of a movie such as the "DaVinci Code".

(I read through the documentation and didn't find very much info regarding forced subs - certainly not about this wonderful nugget. It might be beneficial to add some more details about what can be done when selecting forced subs)

Once again, I've discovered another reason to be impressed by this jewel of a program - Thanks ;>}

[kmac61]

subedits ability to modify a subs starts also allows you to "fix" titles that weren't done well from the start. For instance 'Three Burials 'doesn't have forced subs for the mexican speech, you have to enable the english subs to view them. While you have to modify them 1 by 1 you can fairly quickly create forced subs as needed. (keyboard controls are much quicker). The opposite would be a movie like Heaven (Paradis) which is around 75% italian, the rest english. The english subs is displayed for all speech which is annoying for the english parts. In this case subedit can make the whole stream forced, then you can go back and set the subs for the english speech back to normal and they won't display (with subs off). I did notice that when there are separate ws and lb streams you have to modify both at the same time to effect any changes to type of start

[jeanl]

Man! You guys have discovered many more uses for forced subs than I was aware of. It's true that once you start thinking about it, it's possible to do a lot of things with forced subs. The only thing is my DVD player's remote control does not have a button for subs on/off. Turning them off/on is done by cycling through all languages after which there's a "no subs" choice. But this pretty much invalidate using forced subs, because for them to be visible, the stream has to be selected, with the subtitles "off". I can't do that with my player (how dumb is that?!)

Thanks for the good words guys!
Jeanl

[r0lZ]

But you can do it with a SetSTN command, to select the right stream but turn it off.

BTW, my old Sony has no Subpic ON/OFF function neither, but I've discovered that this function is available with an universal remote control. :)

[kmac61]

I think that if you've reauthored the title (movie only) any individual subs set as forced will display without touching the remote, ie. they'll act as true forced subs
another good use is some movies have background conversations that are included in the subs but only my dog could hear in the audio

[ericf]

So I'm back again with questions.

I'm trying to move all subtitles to .3 seconds earlier.
The guide says:
"DVDSubEdit lets you resynchronize the subtitles by moving them as a whole by a fixed positive or negative delay. Again, make sure you load the full domain and click the “Retime selected SPUs” button. A small dialog will popup where you can specify by how much the selected subtitles should be moved. Positive values (for example +1s) will make the subtitles appear later than they currently do. Negative values will make them appear before they currently do."

I do that, press apply changes, the screen blinks and it's done? Is that all I do? No other commands?
Because these changes are not appearing in the VOB. They're not saved again.

Should I select Edit, Apply last modifications to all? Because when I do, there is no trace of the changes I just made to the stream.

So, what do I do to move the whole subpicture stream .3 seconds earlier?

ericf

[_Assie_]

Hi Jeanl,

First of all thanks for creating DVDSubEdit.

But I got one problem. When moving the subs vertically and an uneven value is chosen to do so, the subs become fuzzy and messed up. Like this:

http://www.assie.speedxs.nl/forumpics/oceans11subs.jpg

This happens only when the sy= value is uneven. Like this:

Set Display Area: sx=240 ex=477 sy=419 ey=495

Can you fix this problem?

Greetings,
Mark

[setarip_old]

@_Assie_

Hi!When moving the subs vertically and an uneven value is chosen to do so, the subs become fuzzy and messed up.
This is a display problem, not a DVDSubEdit problem. Simply move the subs to an even numbered vertical line...

[_Assie_]

@_Assie_

Hi!
This is a display problem, not a DVDSubEdit problem. Simply move the subs to an even numbered vertical line...

Then you have to go trough all the subs of a movie manually!
When i move the subs with the borders there are some subs that have an uneven value but you don't know which ones.

Can't there just be a button to even up the sy= value of all subs?

[dialysis1]

The Da Vinci Code subpicts can be modified so that only the forced subs are visible. Simply make all subpicts clear and Apply Last Modification To All. Then put a check mark in Show Only Forced Subpicts and make those opaque. Then do Apply Last Modification To All again and save.

[setarip_old]

@_ASSIE_Then you have to go trough all the subs of a movie manually!That can be done in DVDSubEdit with just ONE click!

Move ONE of the subpics to an even vertical line number - and from the "Edit" dropdown menu, select "Apply last modification to all" and then from the "File" dropdown menu, select "Save"...

[_Assie_]

Yeah but that's not a perfect solution. Because when you move all the subs at just one value, subs with only one line are moved to high and subs at the top of the screen are moved up instead of down.

So you really need the borders for that. Otherwise you still have to go trough all the subs manually to check if they are not in the black bars.

[setarip_old]

So then you move the borders (with, perhaps, putting a checkmark next to "Flush")for just one subpic to an even vertical line number - and, as I said before, from the "Edit" dropdown menu, select "Apply last modification to all" and then from the "File" dropdown menu, select "Save".

It's still just required to manually modify ONE frame...

[r0lZ]

But, setarip, in this case, as _Assie_ said, it is impossible to have the guarantee that some subpics will not be moved by an odd number of scanlines.
This problem is not just a display problem. It is probably related to interlaced video. The top and bottom frames are inverted after the move.
IMO, DVDSubEdit should either swap the lines of the subpic in this case, or add a checkbox somewhere to force the moves by an even number of scanlines.
Jeanl, what do you think?

[jeanl]

DVDSubEdit does swap the lines when moving by an odd number of lines, but I wrote that code quickly, and I'm not 100% sure that I didn't mess something up (although it looked fine in my tests). I will revert to forcing even numbers for now, until I have time to fix that thing.
Jeanl

[jeanl]

So I'm back again with questions.

I'm trying to move all subtitles to .3 seconds earlier.
The guide says:
"DVDSubEdit lets you resynchronize the subtitles by moving them as a whole by a fixed positive or negative delay. Again, make sure you load the full domain and click the “Retime selected SPUs” button. A small dialog will popup where you can specify by how much the selected subtitles should be moved. Positive values (for example +1s) will make the subtitles appear later than they currently do. Negative values will make them appear before they currently do."

I do that, press apply changes, the screen blinks and it's done? Is that all I do? No other commands?
Because these changes are not appearing in the VOB. They're not saved again.

Should I select Edit, Apply last modifications to all? Because when I do, there is no trace of the changes I just made to the stream.

So, what do I do to move the whole subpicture stream .3 seconds earlier?

ericf
ericf, this is strange. I checked again recently and that worked just fine. Are you sure there are subpics in the file? Did you select a stream that had subpics in it? Normally, moving a full subpic stream by 3s would take quite a while (a few seconds for sure) and the vobs would be saved. You don't need to apply to all, the operation changes all the subpics. But did you make sure you were not modifying 1 subpic? Did you select "Re-time selected subpics"?
Jeanl

[_Assie_]

DVDSubEdit does swap the lines when moving by an odd number of lines, but I wrote that code quickly, and I'm not 100% sure that I didn't mess something up (although it looked fine in my tests). I will revert to forcing even numbers for now, until I have time to fix that thing.
Jeanl

That would be great, thanks Jeanl.

Can it be possible for DVDSubEdit to work directly inside an image file, in the future?

[jeanl]

You mean, an ISO? No, they're read-only usually, and for a good reason. But in absolute truth, it would be possible because in theory, DVDSubEdit does not change the length of the VOB, just moves packs around, so in theory that could be done in an ISO. But I don't plan on writing that... What specific use would you have for that?
Jeanl

[_Assie_]

It just would save time and space unpacking the files from the image files to hard disk. That's all.

[jeanl]

A question for mpucoder (which a few people might be interested in, so I'm asking here)...
There's one thing I'm not 100% clear on.
Does the TopField, in a subpic, necessarily correspond to an even starting line or can it be arbitrary?
Another way to ask the question is this: to move a subpic down by 1 pixel, can I simply increase the StartY value by 1, without exchanging the top/bottom field offsets in the subpic pack?

I think yes, (and from one of your earlier posts, I think this is right), but I just want to confirm.
When moving subpics up, and if StartY is 0 (i.e. the subpic data starts at the first line), then it's necessary to exchange the offsets if the number of lines I'm moving by is odd, if I'm correct.

This is what DVDSubEdit does, but somehow, this is messing up in some cases, and for some people.
So I'm puzzled: are we 100% sure that moving down by 1 pixel does not require exchanging the even/odd field offsets? (that could explain the problems I'm seeing)...

Jeanl

EDIT: I did some tests, and now, when moving down by 1 pixel by increasing StartY, at least in PowerDVD, the offsets do not need to be changed... So I'm puzzled as to what the problem could be.

[r0lZ]

Does it need to be changed in progressive video? It might be necessary for interlaced fields only. Just my 2 cents...

[jeanl]

Well, mpeg2 does not really define interlaced vs progressive, IIRC, as every combination of field/frame coding is allowed in the specs and can be done on a frame by frame basis. In any case, I believe the subpics are coded independently of the video, and always define an even and an odd field...
jeanl

[CoNS]

Can it be possible for DVDSubEdit to work directly inside an image file, in the future?I would love such feature, too.

Editing with DVDSubEdit is usually the only editing I do to my backups before burning, and since the DVDs on my harddisk are image files it would sure save me quite a lot of time and hard disk space if DVDSubEdit could handle image files.

[jeanl]

Well, now that ImgBurn can create an ISO on the fly, there's really no reason why you should rip in ISO mode, instead of file mode, in my opinion. But it would be quite a bit of work to make it work inside the ISO: the read/write functions would have to be replaced with something that can parse the UDF filesystem. not easy.

In any case, I posted a "new" version 1.36, which reverted to moving by even numbers. I'm still puzzled, but this will get you going for the time being.
Jeanl

[setarip_old]

@_Assie_

Did my last suggestion work for you?

[mpucoder]

I'll run a test myself, the definition of the pointers is top and bottom field (and subpictures are always defined as two fields without regard to the video. The intent was to allow for half res images, ie top and bottom field use the same data). Since wiping can be done without changing the pointers I'm beginning to believe the fields are not related to the screen position. One thing, though, StartY should never be < 2

[kmac61]

i've never seen a commercial title where the sy was anything thing
but even, the most common being 2. But whatever the value it's always even. I would guess the majority of interlaced tv's require this.

[mpucoder]

OK, here's what I've found so far. Of course on all players StartY of 2 or 4 works properly.
Odd numbers with the pointers in the same order as even (top field being line 0 of the source) display field-swapped on my Sony, properly on WinDVD, and PowerDVD does a line wrap (line 0 of the source displays at the bottom!)
Swapping the pointers got the standalone to display properly, WinDVD and PowerDVD both displayed field-swapped.
The question now is which players are following the rules?
The only thing left to test is to swap the data so that the pointers obey the rule that top field be at a lower address than bottom field.
The test was muxed using MuxMan, which always sets top field to the data from line 0 of the source. The pointers were swapped using VobEdit.

edit: here it is 20 minutes later, modifying MuxMan to swap the data was simple. The results are strange - standalone displayed properly, WinDVD displayed field-swapped, and PowerDVD displayed both field-swapped and line-wrapped

[jeanl]

mpucoder, thanks for all these tests!!! You're fast!
Given the strange results that we get for an odd StartY, the simplest and fastest solution is to always force StartY to be even, and play with the pointers to move the subpic by 1 line (I already do that last part).
I didn't know that StarY had to be at least 2. DVDSubEdit does not respect that constraint! That's bad! I'll have to fix that as well.
Your tests explain why things were messed up for some users, but not others or when tested in PowerDVD...
I think I know what to do to allow moving by any line count now. Thanks a whole lot!
Jeanl

[jeanl]

OK, here's a new beta version:
http://download.videohelp.com/DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEdit1.361.zip

This version allows moving subpics by odd numbers of lines, but it does that while constraining StartY to always be even. I'm hoping this will behave right in all DVD players, hard and soft.
If you guys could give that a shot, that would be great! I tried it in PowerDVD and it works fine, but I don't have a player handy at this very minute...

Thanks!
Jeanl

[kmac61]

works fine now on sony and pioneer players

[jeanl]

GREAT! Thanks for testing!
Jeanl

[Mtz]

Seems to be OK. Still I have some problem with one character when moving the subtitles.
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/2999/1gd7.th.jpg (http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1gd7.jpg)
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/3697/2at7.th.jpg (http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2at7.jpg)

enjoy,
Mtz

[jeanl]

You know, I've noticed that on some of mine as well. I'll need to look into that again. It looks like the code broke down while I wasn't looking! :D :D :D
Jeanl

[Mtz]

This "bug" was always in all versions of DVDSubEdit if I remember correctly. But the last version is the best until now because in anothers subpictures I can't see this bug which was in previous versions with letters like p g.

enjoy,
Mtz

[_Assie_]

Hi Jeanl,

I tested your latest 1.361 version and when moving the subs by an odd number the sy= value stays even and the subs don't come out fuzzy anymore.

Good work!

[jeanl]

Thanks _Assie_... I'm glad this is fixed, I was really puzzled by it. Thanks to all who helped!
Mtz, one of these days, I'll take a better look at that part of the code. Promise!

Jeanl

[_Assie_]

Jeanl,

Is it possible to create a search function for the duration of subpics?
So that DVDSubEdit selects all the subpics that are above the specified amount of seconds.

[jeanl]

It's possible, but how useful is it? What's your idea?
Jeanl

[_Assie_]

It's possible, but how useful is it? What's your idea?
Jeanl

Mainly for troubleshooting.
After a conversion i've seen some subpics that have infinite duration.

BTW when the duration is set to infinite DVDSubEdit can't adjust this.

[_Assie_]

Does anyone know if you can adjust sunpics with infinite duration?

[jeanl]

What does DVDSubEdit report when you have an infinite duration?
Jeanl

[_Assie_]

What does DVDSubEdit report when you have an infinite duration?
Jeanl

When the subpic is infinite the sliderbar for the duration can't be moved and it shows 0.000 sec

http://www.assie.speedxs.nl/forumpics/subpic_infinite.jpg

[jeanl]

OK, I'll change that.
EDIT: The problem is that there's no stop command. To change that, I'll have to add one. This isn't as easy as it looks (there may not be room for it). So I can't change that super easily. You'll have to give me some time... :(
Jeanl

[Mtz]

And please don't forget the problem from the first post of this page.

Edit: can you add some guide-lines for the left and right for the safe area? Moving subtitles to the left or right can make them outside of the TV screen. Someday I moved some of them and were a little outside. I didn't move them at the max. left position, but somewhere I think is safe.

enjoy,
Mtz

[_Assie_]

OK, I'll change that.
EDIT: The problem is that there's no stop command. To change that, I'll have to add one. This isn't as easy as it looks (there may not be room for it). So I can't change that super easily. You'll have to give me some time... :(
Jeanl

That's OK. Hope it's not too much work.

What do you think about a search function for those infinite subpics? Then such a problem would be easily fixed.

[jeanl]

And please don't forget the problem from the first post of this page.

Edit: can you add some guide-lines for the left and right for the safe area? Moving subtitles to the left or right can make them outside of the TV screen. Someday I moved some of them and were a little outside. I didn't move them at the max. left position, but somewhere I think is safe.

enjoy,
Mtz
Mtz, I don't know what the first post on this page is, I must not have the same number of posts per page as you do :)
Are you talking about vertical borders?

@_Assie_ searching for infinite length subpic isn't too hard, that's true...
Jeanl

[Mtz]

This is the post: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=907966#post907966
Vertical borders is a new request. :D

enjoy,
Mtz

[jeanl]

Version 1.37 of DVDSubEdit is now available here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/)...



The code to move the subpictures by odd numbers of pixels is back in, and this time, it does work!
Some people were having problems with a previous version that linked a missing export in kernel32.dll. This is now fixed.


For those of you who have used 1.361 or 1.362, there's nothing new. This is the "official" version...

Enjoy...
Jeanl

[dialysis1]

Thank you!
I look foward to the new version.

[blutach]

Thanks Jean.

Regards

[President]

Version 1.37 of DVDSubEdit is now available...
Jeanl
Thank's, Jean! :thanks:

[Dr.Khron]

Holy crap, I wish I had found this program last week before I edited all those menus manually!

Very cool program, thank you very much.
I will download and begining playing with it immediately.

[jeanl]

I might not do everything you need to do with menus... I does not do colorscheme etc.... I had planned on implementing that, but didn't find the time, or the energy!
Jeanl

[Politiken]

Hi - I'm using your latest version 1.37 of DVDSubEDit

I loaded a small test DVD clip (one chapter) and moved the sub an odd number of pixels vertical. Saved the modifications and loaded the DVD - The sub couldn't be seen in the PC player (MPC) but loaded back again in DVDSubEdit I can see them fine. I can also see the subs fine when loaded in Intervideo WinDVD 6 .

I then move the sub one pixel down/up, save and now I can see the sub when playing the DVD in MPC.

When moving an odd number of pixels vertical the font-image changes in DVDSubEdit !

I loaded the DVD clip in Nero Recode - It reports (Info) that it is 'Picture - Progressive' .

Is all of this as it should be ?

regards Pol

[jeanl]

Well, if you can't see the subs when they're moved 1 pixel down, all isn't as it should be!!!! Are you sure you could see the original ones? Maybe is't a bug with MPC...
"picture progressive", no idea what nero recode means by that...
jeanl

[r0lZ]

I remember that, before DVDSubEdit, I've used the free version of DVD-Fab to move the subpics of several DVDs, and most of them were not visible any more on my Sony standalone. However, they were still visible with the software players (I don't remember if I have tried MPC.) Maybe it's somewhat the same bug.

It might be better to revert to the old method, and to move by 2 scanlines at a time. Who needs more precision?

[Politiken]

Hi - No problem using an even number of pixels when moving subs vertical - I first had the idea that it could be Interlaced/Progressive related - but as it plays fine in WinDVD but not in MPC, it could be a problem with MPC

Pol

[GravuTrad]

Hi jean.

after vexations in my personal life, i'm back and i will update and traduce all your softs.

I see you later...

[jeanl]

Salut GravuTrad! I hope these vexations weren't anything too serious! Good to have you back!
I'm guessing the original code might be the most useful for you. It's normally available on the home page, but perhaps not the latest one. I'll make sure I put the newer code monday or tuesday!
Bye
Jeanl

[GravuTrad]

yes ok.

yes it was hard vexations but i'm a fighter lol..
back with strong force...

[blutach]

Welcome back GravuTrad!

Bonne annee.

Regards

[GravuTrad]

Merci Blutach.

You too.

[_Assie_]

Jeanl,

Did you take a look at the infinite subpic adjustment issue?
(I posted it on page 28, the picture)

Greets,
Assie

[jeanl]

No, not yet. Well, I know what the problem is: it's missing a second DCSQT with a "stop" command. Because DVDSubEdit can't add one at this point, it's not able to change the duration. To fix that I have to add code to add a DCSQT, and that's not as easy as it sounds (mostly because you can't ever be sure that you have enough room for it)...
jeanl

[_Assie_]

No, not yet. Well, I know what the problem is: it's missing a second DCSQT with a "stop" command. Because DVDSubEdit can't add one at this point, it's not able to change the duration. To fix that I have to add code to add a DCSQT, and that's not as easy as it sounds (mostly because you can't ever be sure that you have enough room for it)...
jeanl

Aah oké, i was just wondering.

But it will be in a future version? :)

[jeanl]

mmm, I started writing the code, but I haven't finished yet. But don't expect it too soon :(
Jeanl

[kumi]

mmm, I started writing the code, but I haven't finished yet. But don't expect it too soon :(
Jeanl
Looking forward to it :goodpost:

[moadib2k]

I love dvdsubedit but I dont see anywhere that there is command line. I downloaded the source and maybe I missed it in there.

I am trying to automate my rip/convert process and one of the steps is to check for forced subs (like in DaVinci Code) where they use the main subpic stream and set the forced flag.

What I have to do now is open dvdsubedit set all subs to transparent then select forced subs and set them to non-transparent, save and close.

Is there are way to call dvdsubedit from the command line to accomplish this?

[jeanl]

No, but you could add that to the source code!!!! It's not terribly difficult.
Jeanl

[moadib2k]

No, but you could add that to the source code!!!! It's not terribly difficult.
Jeanl

Just got the source to compile under vs2003 looking at it now. It looks like CSubPicEngine is the main functional class. This may take a little time to figure out how it all operates. Educational though, thanks for making the source available.

[jeanl]

I would actually use the dialog class to do that, because a lot of the batch processing is implemented in the dialog class.
We can take that offline. If you have questions, send me an email at jeanldvd at free dot fr.
Jeanl

[_Assie_]

Just a comment.
If you got 256MB memory and try to read 20.000+ subpics, that's a no go.
The memory get's full and WinXP will try to use the swapfile, but that's so slow.

Tried it on a machine with 512MB and then there are no problems.

Just so you know.

[jeanl]

20000!!!! That's more than I have ever seen on any DVD! Which DVD is that?
Unfortunately, I can't do much about it, because I need the data for each subpic (not the bitmap, which is decoded on the fly) and each data is usually something lik 2-3 packs (6kB) per subpic. 20000 of that already occupies 120MB, and I also keep quite a bit of extra info around.... :(
Jeanl

[_Assie_]

I noticed this with Remember the Titans and The Hunt for Red October, both PAL.

But it's not a big deal, most machines nowadays have more than 256MB anyway.

[_Assie_]

When there are 2 subpics at the bottom and top of the same frame, DVDSubEdit can't adjust this?

http://www.assie.speedxs.nl/forumpics/2subpics.jpg

[jeanl]

No, because there's only 1 subpic, a very large rectangle with something at the top and something at the bottom. You can't move these two things independently, they're "connected". To do that, you need to decode, remove a few middle lines, then re-encode. I haven't implemented that...
Jeanl

[President]

Hi, Jean!

I have a trouble with SubEdit. Ver.1.37. Subpics here (http://rapidshare.com/files/18335617/Sub.rar.html) (544 kb).

I want to grow up the brightness of this subpics with DVDSubEdit. The DCSQT2 have a main time of subpics demonstration and also have a transparency parameter of pattern is 9, which I want to change to 15. No problem. I changed it. Then I made apply to all subpics and DVDSubEdit changed a pattern transparency of all DCSQT's 0 instead of DCSQT's 2. Is this a bug?

I found a manual solution. I changed an active DCSQT to 2 in all subpics manually (a devil work which broken my cursor keys :) ) and then SubEdit made changes correctly.

[r0lZ]

President, I've just signaled this GUI bug by email, and Jeanl has found its cause. It is now fixed.
Apply Last Modif and Apply To All don't work on transparency if you move from subpic to subpic with the cursor keys! However, you should be able to Apply To All before changing the current subpic, or Apply Last Modifications if you select only the subpics with the slider.

[President]

President, I've just signaled this GUI bug by email, and Jeanl has found its cause. It is now fixed.
Thank for your help, Roland. And please deliver my gratitude to Jean for bugfix.
Apply Last Modif and Apply To All don't work on transparency if you move from subpic to subpic with the cursor keys! However, you should be able to Apply To All before changing the current subpic, or Apply Last Modifications if you select only the subpics with the slider.
Hmm, interesting notice. I will try it at home.

[jeanl]

r0lZ, President's problem might be a different one! President, could you send me a tiny SUB file to test it on (I don't I have one handy with subs with several DCSQTs...) jeanldvd at free dot fr...
Thanks!
Jeanl
EDIT: OOOOPS! I found the subpics in your original post. Sorry, downloading now...

[jeanl]

OK I took a look at the problem. There are two problems:
- If you don't select "Apply to All DCSQT" only DCSQT 0 is changed when "apply to all" is run (and not the DCSQT you were actually working on). This is a limitation/bug I will need to fix. I will change is so the same DCSQT is modified, if it exists, in all subpics. If there's no such DCSQT for a particular subpic, no change will be made.
- The check box Apply to all DCSQT in the apply to all dialog is currently non-functional! I think I will remove it. If you want to change all DCSQT in one shot, select "All DCSQT" in the dropdown, make your modif, and then apply to all.
jeanl

[jeanl]

OK, here's a modified version. Let me know if that does the trick.
Version 1.373
- Improved the DCSQT selection mechanism:
. When selecting a DCSQT in a given subpic, the same DCSQT is selected (if it exists!) in all selected SPUs.
. When making a modification to the transparency or color and applying to all (or to another SPU), the same DCSQT is modified as in the original, if it exists.
If a given SPU does not have that DCSQT, it is not changed.

Temporary put on:
http://www.verzend.be/v/919053/DVDSubEdit.zip.html

Jeanl

[President]

OK, here's a modified version. Let me know if that does the trick.
Jeanl
Great! It's fully works now!
Thank you very much! :thanks:
You make more than I expected :).
Sorry, I forgot to say you about "Apply to all DCSQT's" checkbox, but you found it himself. One more thank's. And I agree with you, this checkbox is unneeded now.
I think this version can be put into main webpage as official release. My testing is Ok.

P.S. WOW! Moreover. If I making more than one modification of subpics (in different SPU) only last applying to all. That's right. In this case may be you add a warning message like that: "You make more than one modification of different SPUs. All previous changes will be lost".
http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/2684/123uo0.jpg

[jeanl]

Yes, if you make several modifications to the same subpic, they will all appear in the "Apply to all" window. I think it's pretty clear, given that some are ticked and some aren't, that you can choose which one to apply and which one not to...
I"ll make this version public asap... I'm glad it's working for you. I think it's much much better now.
Jeanl

[jeanl]

Version 1.38 of DVDSubEdit is now available here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/)...



Improved the DCSQT selection mechanism:
. When selecting a DCSQT in a given subpic, the same DCSQT is selected (if it exists!) in all selected SPUs.
. When making a modification to the transparency or color and applying to all (or to another SPU), the same DCSQT is modified as in the original, if it exists.
If a given SPU does not have that DCSQT, it is not changed.
Changing the transparency then pressing the Right or Left arrows prevented applying the modification to all. Now fixed.


Enjoy...
Jeanl

[CoNS]

Thanks jeanl.

When will you be ready for some tweaking of the hearing impaired removal routines? :)

[jeanl]

:) boy oh boy... not sure about that! I'm doing small fixes at the moment, but nothing major...
Jeanl

[blutach]

Thanks Jean!!!

Regards

[President]

Version 1.38 of DVDSubEdit is now available...
Merci, Jean :) :thanks:.

[video_magic]

Thank You jeanl :cool:

[Mtz]

Thanks jeanl.

When will you be ready for some tweaking of the hearing impaired removal routines? :)

You are talking about this situation?
JOHN: Hello!
MARY: Hello!

enjoy,
Mtz

[CoNS]

Yes, among other situations. You can read more about removal of hearing impaired text in this guide:

How to remove text for hearing impaired in DVD subtitles (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/Guides/HearingImpaired/guide.htm)

DVDSubEdit has some very neat and advanced functions for this. I use them a lot on region 1 DVDs. Unfortunately, there a bunch of minor bugs or ommissions in the routines, which I hope jeanl will find the time to address at some point...

[jeanl]

CoNS, do you have a list of the remaining problems when we stopped working on that? (I'm sure you do!!! :) )
Jeanl

[CoNS]

Actually I don't. What I do have is some notes and examples of issues with recent DVDs I have edited. I'll send it to you by email for you to have a look.

[Mtz]

CoNS, I know that guide and how to remove that subtitles. But in my example are 2 different situations:

1.
JOHN: Hello!
MARY: Hello!

2.
JOHN: I'm leaving you.
Good bye!

If DVDSubEdit will remove "JOHN:" and "MARY:" we have a problem: we'll lose the dialogs and will have:
Hello!
Hello!
Which is not correct. Correct is:
- Hello!
- Hello!

In the second example is no problem.

With the actual features of DVDSubEdit, if I have this example:
JOHN: - Hello!
MARY: - Hello!
I'm removing manual (searching for ":").

enjoy,
Mtz

PS: I hope Mary is not upset because John is leaving her, but I didn't have another idea. :D

[jeanl]

Mary's very upset!
These are difficult problems to fix though... Remember that DVDSubEdit cannot add any character, just remove! So I can't add a "-"....
Also, if you run into systematic OCR errors, you should send me the SUP file, and I'll take a look. It's usually quite difficult to fine tune GOCR to do the right thing (and preserve its performance on other subtitles!), but sometimes it's possible...
jeanl

[Mtz]

I don't have problems with OCR, because I don't use it too much. My problem is old (and I think you remember it): when moving the subtitles, some lines with some special characters are not moved at the same position.

enjoy,
Mtz

[jeanl]

Yes, I do remember that. and it's not a very easy problem to solve :( the kind of problem where if you solve it in one case, it breaks in another, and it's hard to find just the right balance...
Jeanl

[jeanl]

Hey guys,
Here's a beta for you to test. There isn't that much new, but I've added the code that adds or removes a DCSQT. This will allow adding fade in/outs in the future, but for now, it allows you to turn an infinite subpic (i.e., one that does not have a second DCSQT with a stop command) into a finite duration subpic (simply by adding a DCSQT with a stop command). It also allows removing the last DCSQT (if it has a stop command) to turn the subpic into an infinite duration one.
To use:
- If your subpic does not have a stop command, the duration slider is disabled. But if you click on it, you're given the option to add a DCSQT with a stop command to allow adjusting the duration.
- Click the tiny button next to the slider to turn your subpic into an infinite one.

Give it a shot and let me know. You can't apply that to all or to another subpic (you have to do them all one by one). If it works (it does for me) and is useful, I'll add the option to the "apply to all" dialog.

Jeanl

Find it here:
http://download.videohelp.com/DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEdit1.381.zip

[kumi]

Thanks jeanl, this is a welcome addition indeed!

This changelog reminded me of a problem I noticed earlier, but forgot to report...

I have a DVD with a subtitle track that has a subpic with a duration of 470 seconds. Obviously I'd like to fix that, but DVDSubEdit doesn't let me adjust the duration slider. It just sits there, stuck on one of the extremes (left or right, I can't remember which.) Bug?

[jeanl]

Kumi, is that with the old or the new version?
Check:
- Is the slider enabled?
- Does the subpic have 2 DCSQT (you'll see them on the left side of the UI), with the second one with a Stop command?
- Does the UI say 470 seconds?

If the new version does not fix the problem, send me the sup file and I'll take a look. jeanldvd at free dot fr.

[goonix]

Hi Jean!

If I save the subpicture of a menu in ppm format, it gets the size of 720x573 pixels (PAL).
Thats absolutely correct.

But if I want to modify it, I have to align it with the background image.
It would be much easier, if you can automatically add 2 lines at the top (PAL and NTSC) and 1 line at the bottom (additional for PAL) in background color.

This can be an option.

Is it possible or get we conflicts when saving normal subtitles?

goonix

[jeanl]

mmm, of course it's possible, but it's a bit of a kludge. The fact that it's 720x573 isn't a "standard" (the highlights don't have to cover the full screen, right?), so what works for this DVD might not work for the next, right? or am I missing something?
If so, perhaps it would be better to write a standalone little command line program that does what you want.
Jeanl

[goonix]

According to mpucoder the first 2 lines and the last line (only for PAL) can't be used for a subpicture. This is the maximum. But of course a subpicture can be smaller. Adding a fixed number of lines was not a good idea.

If I extract a subpicture with SubRip, I have an option to expand it to the full frame size 480 NTSC 576 PAL. The real subpicture remains in the correct place. The space is filled with the background color. The algorithm seems to be not too complicated and will work for all DVDs.

It would be nice to have a similar option in DVDSubEdit.

Nevertheless, thank you for this great tool as it already is.

goonix

[jeanl]

OK I understand... You'd like to have the inverse of the "crop" feature where you can save the subpic as a full frame bitmap, with the subpicture placed exactly where it is during playback.
I'll put that in the todo list.
Jeanl

[kumi]

Kumi, is that with the old or the new version?
Check:
- Is the slider enabled?
- Does the subpic have 2 DCSQT (you'll see them on the left side of the UI), with the second one with a Stop command?
- Does the UI say 470 seconds?

I couldn't find the DVD in question, but I have another with the exact same problem. This one has a subpic with a duration of 671.254 seconds.

In answer to your questions:

1/ It's the new version.

2/ The duration slider is enabled, but is stuck at the leftmost "short" position. The duration text box reads 671.254. If I try to move the slider, it stays put, but the text box changes to 671.300.

3/ The subpic has 2 DCSQT, the last one is a Stop (just like all the rest, in this stream.)

If I load the .SUP instead of the VOB full domain, the slider _is_ moveable. Just in case that's significant.

If the new version does not fix the problem, send me the sup file and I'll take a look. jeanldvd at free dot fr.You've got mail ;) The problem subpic is #16.

[jeanl]

Kumi,
I found the bug (I think). I'll send you an updated version, and you can tell me whether the bug is fixed...
Jeanl

[_Assie_]

Hi Jeanl,

This app keeps getting better and better. :)

I tested the function where a infinite subpic can be changed to a finite duration and it works perfect for me. Good work!

Did you also work on a function to search for infinite subpics?

Assie

[jeanl]

The search capabilities are a bit limited, I agree. Ideally the user should have a very flexible way to search/select subtitles based on various criteria... But flexibility is hard to implement...
Jeanl

[r0lZ]

BTW, I would like a function to search for forced start subpics.

[jeanl]

It's there already: "only show forced subpics" in the subpic selection area... :)
Jeanl

[kumi]

Jeanl, since implementing search is so involved, how about a "dump to text file" function in the meantime? It would help some people find too-long/overlapping/forced-start/etc subpictures. Just a dump of the subpic info would work:
Subpic# = 0 (0 in stream)
StreamID = 0x20
LBA = 0
V/CID = 0/0
PTS = 8661600
Duration = 4.096s
TimeCode: 00:01:36,239 --> 00:01:40,336
DCSQT: 0
Start
Set Color: e2=15 e1=15 p=11 b=11
Set Transparency: e2=15 e1=15 p=15 b=0
Set Display Area: sx=122 ex=580 sy=464 ey=531
Set field indexes
End of commands
DCSQT: 1 -- Delay 4.096s
Stop

Subpic# = 1 (0 in stream)
StreamID = 0x20
LBA = 0
V/CID = 0/0
PTS = 9039600
Duration = 5.279s
TimeCode: 00:01:40,439 --> 00:01:45,719
DCSQT: 0
Start
Set Color: e2=15 e1=15 p=11 b=11
Set Transparency: e2=15 e1=15 p=15 b=0
Set Display Area: sx=141 ex=561 sy=496 ey=529
Set field indexes
End of commands
DCSQT: 1 -- Delay 5.279s
Stop

...etc

[jeanl]

That's a very good idea, but it's still not perfect (for example, you can't easily search for forced start with this technique...).
But it's easy enough!
Jeanl

[kumi]

Oh? I saw that when I set a subpic to Forced Start, it gets added to the subpic info window:

DCSQT: 0
Forced Start
Set Color: e2=15 e1=15 p=11 b=11
etc...

[r0lZ]

It's there already: "only show forced subpics" in the subpic selection area... :)
Jeanl
Oops, sorry!

[_Assie_]

Jeanl, since implementing search is so involved, how about a "dump to text file" function in the meantime? It would help some people find too-long/overlapping/forced-start/etc subpictures. Just a dump of the subpic info would work:


That would be a good solution for searching for infinite subpics for the mean time.

Can you make it work, Jeanl?

[jeanl]

Oh? I saw that when I set a subpic to Forced Start, it gets added to the subpic info window:

DCSQT: 0
Forced Start
Set Color: e2=15 e1=15 p=11 b=11
etc...

Yes, sorry, my mistake!
Jeanl

[jeanl]

Here's a beta for you guys.
Version 1.384
- Fixed a crash that could happen in some cases (bug introduced in 1.381).
- Fixed a transparency problem in the display (fully opaque subpics were not displayed as completely opaque)
- Chose a better Y Cr Cb -> RGB mapping function, which yields a true white when Y=255 (Cr=Cb=0). Thanks r0lZ!

In addition, there's a couple new buttons "add fade" "remove fade" which are just experimental. They add a quick fade-in to the subpic, I did that just for fun.

Version available here:
http://download.videohelp.com/DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEdit1.384.zip

jeanl

[jeanl]

... and here's 1.385 which adds the ability to save the subpic info for all selected subpics. Simply right click on the command display area (bottom left) and click "Save ..."

http://download.videohelp.com/DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEdit1.385.zip

Let me know if that's useful.
Jeanl

[r0lZ]

Thanks Jean! :)

[bigotti5]

Thanks jeanl!

Adding fades produces incorrect STM entries some times

e.g. I got

DCSQT: 1 -- Delay 0.011s (STM in DCSQ=0x01, should be 0x00 or 0x03)
another VOB
DCSQT: 5 -- Delay 0.410s (STM in DCSQ=0x24, should be 0x23 or 0x26)

225/64*n for PAL and truncate
3003/1024*n for NTSC and truncate

[jeanl]

Thanks bigotti. I'll look into that and correct...
Jeanl
EDIT: I didn't realize the STM had to match a frame time, which is why I wasn't rounding off to the nearest frame. I'll add that.

[mpucoder]

Don't forget to truncate the answer, ie integer division
For NTSC (frames*3003)/1024
for PAL (frames*3600)/1024
Another way if you have a compiler that doesn't understand integer divide, or wants to round, is to shift right 10 bits, eg (frames*3600) >> 10

[jeanl]

Yes, I'm truncating, I've noticed you mention that a few times in your subpic documentation!
Thanks!
Jeanl

[derebo]

hi,

today i have posted a message asking for a way to use fade in fade out effect to subs just to learn yout latest release implements it. congratulations! that is so cool! because i had tried 1.37 and seemed very interesting. 1.384 and onwards will be even better for sure! afaik, only $$$ software could do that effect. now, there is an alternative.

greetings,

[jeanl]

Thanks for the message! I'm not too sure how many people are interested in these kinds of effects. They're not terribly useful in my view, but occasionally, there might be a time when you need to do that. Unfortunately, the current function can't be customized so it's still not terribly useful...
Jeanl

[Mtz]

The "Fade" is a nice feature, thanks!
I saw the "Inf" button and... tested. :D But after pressing it I wanted to revert back the original duration. Can you make an Undo button or someting to give me back the original duration?
Fade out is possible? :D

enjoy,
Mtz

[derebo]

I'm not too sure how many people are interested in these kinds of effects.

n+1! ;) looking forward to fade-in-out!

greetings!

[jeanl]

@Mtz: just click on the slider, and it will offer to put a duration back. Or click Ctrl-Z (but that reloads the subpic, so you lose whatever modification you might have made on that subpic).

Fade-out is possible, of course. But you're never sure you can implement it: the subpic pack needs to have enough room for the additional DCSQTs. They're small so usually it's not a problem, but occasionally a subpic won't have enough room to put either fade-in or out.
I intend to put an option for fade-in, fade-out, as well as the duration of the fade-in and fade-out...
Jeanl

[bigotti5]

@jeanl

One question - why is it not possible to change start time in sup files (PTS in sup-header)?

[jeanl]

Well, probably because the function to move subpics was originally created for VOB files (in which case it's a lot harder!). To do that in a sup is much easier, but you still need to do some error checking (make sure you don't move it before another one or something).
I thought there were better tools to adjust that kind of stuff in sup files, no?
Jeanl

[Angelus]

I have a small bug (at least on my end) using DVD SubEdit after processing my DVDs using the Big 3 method. You can view the entire thread here:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=123068

The basic problem was that after running DVD SubEdit, it would render my DVD unplayable. I finally looked at the pre/post/cell commands in PCGEdit, and I realized that after processing with DVD SubEdit, all of these commands were erased in the main movie VTS. Is this normal, or did I do something wrong? The DVD played fine afterwards after I copied all of the commands back again

[jeanl]

OMG, if it's true that DVDSubEdit does that, that's a HUGE BUG! I'll look into it...
Jeanl

[jeanl]

I really don't understand what's going on. I tried to replicate your problem, but I can't.
DVDSubEdit only modifies the IFO if you change the CLUT (color lookup table). Otherwise, the IFO isn't even touched. If all you did was move a few subtitles up or down, it should absolutely not save the IFO.
Which version of DVDSubEdit are you using?
Jeanl

[Angelus]

Version 1.38

Here's what I did exactly in DvdSubEdit:

Open Full Domain (main movie) -> Re-time selected Subpics -> Save all Modifications

I just tried it on another movie as a test and the cell commands were still in tact afterwards...I must have done something wrong when I did it before. Sorry to give you a scare!

[jeanl]

mmm, I will keep an eye for it though...
Jeanl

[Mtz]

Hi, jeanl!
On some episodic disc, I made the following steps to my favourite subpicture stream:
- decrease the transparency to 14
- adding fade at a few subpictures
- addind forced start at my favourite stream. Apply this last setting.
- save the DVD

When I reloaded the DVD, all subictures with fade was marked as hidden. Not showed in DVDSubEdit and not in the player. After increasing the transparency to opaque (15), saving and reloading again, all subpictures are OK.
Can you confirm this in a test?

enjoy,
Mtz

[jeanl]

Mtz, could you possibly send me either a small portion of the original VOB or the SUP file? This would allow me to replicate your problem...
Thanks!
Jean (jeanldvd at free dot fr)

[Mtz]

You can try with any sample. I used PAL. Right now I made another test with a small custom created VOB, I made the same steps, but this time the modified subtitles are showed in PowerDVD, but in DVDSubEdit are hidden.

enjoy,
Mtz

[bigotti5]

but this time the modified subtitles are showed in PowerDVD, but in DVDSubEdit are hidden.

DVDSubedit shows the first frame of each subpicture. If you add fade-in the first frame is full transparent......:)

[jeanl]

Thanks bigotti5! That's right! I must have been spacing out...
If you add a fade-in, the first frame is fully transparent. So obviously you won't see it. Use the drop-down DCSQT selector to go to the last DCSQT, it's fully opaque. The selector normally applies to all selected subpics.

Thanks bigotti5!
Jeanl

[setarip_old]

@jeanl

Hi!

Can DVD SubEdit be used to increase the height of subtitles?

[jeanl]

If you mean make them taller, no. If you mean move them up toward the top of the picture yes...
Jeanl

[setarip_old]

Unfortunately, I meant taller.

Glad to see you posting here ;>}

[_Assie_]

Any news on improvements for searching subpics?

[jeanl]

:) no, no real news... :(
Jeanl

[frank]

For using DVDSubEdit as tool in PgcEdit it would be very useful to implemet some CLI.
So we could open the right VOBs directly.

[r0lZ]

I agree! ;)

[jeanl]

Yeah, I keep on forgetting! I'll add that.
Jean

[fja_dk]

I've been using DVDsubEdit for some time now - great tool... I have one question:

-how come it is not possible to change sub-picture start-time in sup file mode ?

I have a DVB-T recording where one sub-pic is overlapping another (starting time is the same) - and dvdauthor fails because of this. I need to move one subpic to start earlier, but this is only allowed in VOB mode.... Seems strange as I AM allowed to change duration in sup mode ????

If possible I would very much like to have the needed feature added! I have one recording waiting - and I know of no other way to correct the error...

[jeanl]

It's an oversight on my part. It's true that changing the start time in sup mode is actually a lot easier than in vob mode! I should add that as well.
Are you sure none of the other tools allow you to modify that in your SUP file?
Jeanl

[BlueCup]

I second the editing of SUP files.

One thing I have encountered when trying to retime a subtitle is this error: Couldn't locate an empty slot!

Subpic# = 52 (0 in stream)
StreamID = 0x20
LBA = 293694
V/CID = 1/3
PTS = 44756712
Duration = infinite
TimeCode: 00:08:16,566 --> ?
DCSQT: 0
Set Color: e2=1 e1=0 p=0 b=0
Set Transparency: e2=15 e1=15 p=15 b=0
Set Display Area: sx=272 ex=449 sy=398 ey=438
Set field indexes
Start

I'd like to change the ???? to a duration.

[jeanl]

I think you're mistaking two things.
To change the duration from infinite to finite, a new DCSQT has to be added, and this can only be done if there's enough room in the subpic pack. If not, you get an error that says
"Not enough space in the subpic pack to add another DCSQT!"
To retime a subtitle (i.e., to advance it or delay it, but not change its duration) you often need to physically move the subpic pack(s) in the vob file, and insert it in an empty "slot". If no empty slot can be found you get this error:
"Can't find an empty slot for subpic XX! It won't be moved...."

The two errors are different, and apply in different situations...
Jeanl

[BlueCup]

Well I have a movie that was fansubbed and there are quite a few subtitles that are set to infinite. They need durations set to them otherwise they stay on screen.

So if the .SUP file itself was editable I can manage but I guess there isn't any empty slots for me to add/move in the VOB file?

[jeanl]

You can set a duration in a SUP file... The only thing you can't do is "retime", meaning, change the time at which the subtitle starts displaying. But you CAN open a sup file, and set a duration to a subpic that's infinite. Just click on the duration slider and it will ask you if you want to add a DCSQT to set a finite duration. However, if the subpic pack isn't large enough you can't turn an infinite subpic into a finite duration.

You can also set a duration in a VOB, almost always. If you can't this means the subpic pack isn't large enough to accommodate an extra DCSQT. Same as in a SUP file.

In fact, in a sup file, there shouldn't be any problem because there's no vob to make bigger, so it should be easy to enlarge the given subpic (add a full pack) to make the duration finite... But I haven't implemented that...

Jeanl

[mpucoder]

Couple things I don't quite follow on editing a sup file. A .sup file does not contain packs, these are used only in .vob files (as they are program streams). Rather each subpicture is stored as a spu in contiguous bytes.

The other thing is about timing subpictures in a .sup file. This should be very easy, the start time is encoded into bytes 2-5, in intel byte order, as the relative pts (the first frame has the value of zero). This value should always be a multiple of the frame duration (either 3003 for NTSC or 3600 for PAL)

[kumi]

.Sup editing would be a great feature. In the cases where you just can't do it in-VOB, especially.

[ericf]

I'm still unable to change starting times of all subtitles in a DVD.
According to the maual (which refers to button names that don't exist, by the way) I'm supposed to select a subtitle and then move it forward or back.
Well, I do. Then I try to make the command the same for all subpictures (nothing is checked in that box that comes up). I save and exit. Nothing has been changed. Could you perhaps create a button that says Change start time for subtitles and make that work? I can change transparency but not timing. By the way, nothing happens to the subtitle time when I use the Re-Time this subpic button. Only when I change total duration of subtitle.
And what is the difference between Re-time this subpic and Re-time Selected Subpic?
Thanks
Ericf

[jeanl]

ericf,
The retiming feature does not work exactly the same as the rest of the editing features. If you retime one (so it's displayed earlier or later), you can't "apply to all" that change (which is why you don't see that in the "apply to all" dialog).
To retime a bunch of subs in one shot, you need to select them, the click "Re-time Selected Subpics". They they will all be retimed, in a single shot. I thought the manual was clear about that?
The fact that the displayed timing does not change for the subpic that you've retimed might be a bug. I'll take a closer look at that, and get back to you.

Jeanl

[jeanl]

mmm, I just did a test:
Chose 1 subpic, clicked "retime this subpic", moved it by about 4 seconds, and the display updates normally and shows the new start time... Is this not working for you?
Jeanl

[ericf]

I guess it's the choosing of subtitles that isn't clear. I can see no info on how to choose subtitles, single or all. It just says:
"make sure you load the full domain and click the “Retime selected SPUs” button. A small dialog will popup where you can specify by how much the selected subtitles should be moved. Positive values (for example +1s) will make the subtitles appear later than they currently do."
No info on selecting the subtitles here.

The subpic selection box at the top is not the one, right?

I don't have the DVD I was working on on the HD anymore so I can't check right now but could you please tell me what to do to select the whole subtitle or a few subtitles?

Thanks.
Ericf

[jeanl]

That's where things are not as good as they could be. You can select an entire given stream, or a given cell, or subtitles that contain certain text. But you can't select several subs "by hand" (as for example, with Shift-click or Ctrl-Click in standard editors)...
Jeanl

[ericf]

Hmm...
So how do I go about selecting? The only feature I can find is the one I mentioned: The box at the top right. Subpic selection.

I always select the english language stream there.

I still can not make the whole subtitle track move a single 100th of a second. Nor can I make one single subtitle move. Even if I wanted to change one subtitle, the only way I can change it, from what I can see, is to make it shorter or longer. I can't make it move in time.

I've tried this so many times without being able to make it work and you say you can do it with no problems. So what do you do that I don't do? I try to follow the "guide" but the "guide" says nothing about how to select subtitles as my quote earlier shows.

Please make a step by step example so that I can follow the steps and try to make things work on my end.

When I have "selected" the subtitle stream I want to change in the upper right box that says Subpic selection (if there's only one subtitle stream I guess I don't have to select it), what do I do next? Press the Re-time Subpic or press the Re-time selected subpics? If I do any one of these the result is, what? Do I get some info on what has been done to the stream? Do I get info on how to apply the modifications to the whole stream? I cannot find any way to get any info on what changes have occured to the stream. Should there be information crossed in the Apply last modifications to all window? But no information appears in that window. Nothing is crossed after I make the timing changes.

Do you see where I'm coming from? From my end, I'm doing what I can to follow the manual but I still don't get anything to work.


Thanks.
ericf

[jeanl]

The "selected" subpics are the ones you can access with the horizontal slider: all the ones that can currently be seen by moving the selection slider, or using the left-right arrows.

You're not trying to do that on a SUP file, right? This only works on VOBs.

OK, here's the step by step instructions:
- Open the VOB files (the entire domain, which means vts_01_1.vob vts_01_2.vob ... etc if you're dealing with titleset 1.)
- Select the right language in the upper right box. Now the "selected subpics" are the subpics of that language.
- Click "re-time selected subpics". A dialog appears that says "Change timing for all selected subpics".
- Select by how much you want to move it by moving the slider. The video display updates to show you the frame that corresponds to the start of the subpic as you've selected it.
- Click "OK". A box opens to confirm "There is NO undo for this" etc... Click OK.
- There will be a progress dialog showing how far along it is.
- When done, the start time of all the subpics should be modified (you'll see a different PTS value, and the "Timecode" field will show different start and end times).

Jeanl

[Nobody At Home]

@ Jeanl,
have no much problems with your DVDSubEdit. But I have to say thank you for developing this great software. It's not easy to find Software thats matching my wishes. Your's match !

thanks

[jeanl]

Thanks! That's great to hear! :)
Jeanl

[ericf]

Sorry. That's how I've been doing things. It doesn't seem to work. If the first subtitle is at 0,0 seconds, will that stop the whole process? But I've never been able to move one subtitle in any DVD before either.

Also, I can tell you that the progress dialog doesn't appear for more than a fraction of a second.

The thing is, when I've done the things you say to do, I'm pressing make changes. Nothing happens in the subtitle display (exept a green text says its Modified). When I change the time the video window updates but that's it. And unless you save once more your changes won't be done to the stream, right? Unless you choose save all mocifications after, for example, changing the trasparency of the subtitles, the changes won't happen. So I tell the program to make the changes that I cannot see that it has done, exit the program and see that nothing has happened to the streams. The save time is not the time that is shown for the VOB files.

No, I would'nt know about sub editing. I only use regular formats like ssa, srt and ass for subtitling movies. Those formats don't come into play here.

So my question is; Why does it work for you and not for me when we are doing the same things to the stream?

The only time the time indicators change for a subtitle is when you change the duration of it. When I make changes to the start times of subtitles the only message that comes up in the subtitle box is Modified. But the subtitles are not being modified in the way I want them to be.

I've checked so that the stream isn't read only so that's not the problem either. I can change subtitle transparency without any problems.

I use version 1.38.

ericf

[jeanl]

mmm, something is not right here... I have a newer version available, but I don't think it would fix your problem, but it's worth giving it a shot.
http://download.videohelp.com/DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEdit1.389.zip

If that does not work either, then you should send me a tiny bit of the vob file so I can try myself...

When re-timing subtitles, you don't have to save. The changes are done in the VOB directly, which is why there is no undo. That's unlike all other modifications which are not effective until you press save all modifications (transparency, position etc).

Jeanl

[ericf]

I think I've found the problem. Not completely sure, but...

I had to copy the vobs from a burned DVD. I made sure to make the folder writable but it seems like it's impossible (it should be!). I don't know why but I kept changing the folder from read only to write and it kept changing back to read only.

Moving the vobs into an already existing folder was the key to success. Now I get a progress meter when making changes to the stream.

It's strange how this happened but sometimes you just have to be happy that you finally found the problem.

Thanks.
ericf

[jeanl]

Boy! Normally DVDSubEdit tells you if you open files that are read-only! It's surprising that it failed without any warning....
Jeanl

[ericf]

I was happy too early.

The DVD I tried and succeded with is, so far, the only one that I can change the subtitle timing on.

I can find no reason why this doesn't work on all DVDs. Perhaps you can.

You mentioned posting a bit of a VOB to you. How would I go about splitting that part off?

Could you guide me on how to check for differences in the one DVD I could change and the ones I can't? If there's a program to check on the streams there should be a way to get that info and post it for you to read.

All the DVDs I have tried are re-authored DVDs.

Do you have any idea what could be the problem with a VOB when it cannot be changed with your program?
All DVDs can change transparency without problems.

I did note that you said that this subtitle timing change is done differently than the other changes.

I'm out of ideas.
Could you let me know how we could pinpoint the problem so that it might be eliminated?
Thanks.
ericf

[jeanl]

:(
I'm really puzzled by that. Did you try the version I gave a link for, a couple posts above? If that does not work, then send me a bit of VOB. Here's how to do that.
- Use jsoto's cutfile program
http://download.videohelp.com/jsoto/tools/CutFile_exe.zip
- Cut about 10MB of vts_01_1.vob (assuming your movie is in vts 1), make sure at least a few subtitles are included!
- Now, try to open that tiny vob file with DVDSubEdit and see if you can or can't retime subtitles. Make sure the file is alone in the folder (DVDSubEdit will only re-time a subtitle if you have opened all the VOB files in the domain). If it doesn't work, then send that to me using either http://www.verzend.be/ or http://s2.yousendit.com/
My email address is jeanldvd at free dot fr.

Jeanl

[ericf]

I'll try that. I'm away for the whole day today so I'll try and do it in the evening.
Ericf

[ericf]

If I cut off a bit I can change the subtitle timing.
With the whole DVD I cannot.

Any idea why that is?
How do I check for differences in DVDs? Mabye there is something in how DVDs are authored that causes the progam to work on some not others?

ericf

[jeanl]

mmm, I was afraid that would be the case. Argh...
The program should be able to work right for all DVDs. Something is going wrong some place, but I don't quite see where.
Send me a message at jeanldvd at free dot fr and I'll send you a debug version with more messages. Perhaps this will tell us what's going on...
Jeanl

[r0lZ]

Have you noticed that:
(DVDSubEdit will only re-time a subtitle if you have opened all the VOB files in the domain).
Are you sure you have opened the whole set of VOB files (VTS_XX_1.VOB, VTS_XX_2.VOB...)?

[ericf]

Yes. The whole domain is opened.
ericf

[ericf]

Jeanl: You have mail!
ericf

[ericf]

Can't open the exe file. missing a file called msvcrtd.dll.
Any idea what to do?
A lot of other files and errors crop up when i've downloaded the first dll and a second (mfc42d.dll) that the program asks for. Then it asks for a number in the mfc42d.dll (5056).

ericf

[jeanl]

I sent you a full version (with mfc statically linked). Should be good now.
jeanl

[ericf]

With this version I get an actual progress meter. Now and then.

Second try the meter just blinks. No messages.
Subtitles are not retimed.
ericf

[jeanl]

OK. I think I'll have to run some more extensive tests, on a full DVD. This will have to wait a bit... :(
Jeanl

[ericf]

I should add that there is no change to the dates of the files. That should mean that nothing has happened to them, right?
By the way, I'm on a Windows XP Home OS.
ericf

[mc2man]

is there any way to run subedit in wine? All the other progs. of great value i've got running but no luck here

[jeanl]

Yes, no change of date -> no change whatsoever (if it's the modification date you're looking at).
@mc2man: What happens when you try to run it in wine? This question has probably been asked before, but I don't remember!
Jeanl

[mc2man]

What happens when you try to run it in wine?
Unfortunately nothing (Fiesty 7.04 wine 0.9.35) i'm 95% sure it's not a question of missing/wrong ver. dlls. As far as what events need to take place for subedit to open is well above me. I do see that menushrink does work(xp mode) and appears to be similar to subedit in alot of regards. (from a clueless point of view)

[doggersen]

DVDSubEdit really works great when it comes to removing the hearing impaired text automatically.

But a special mean kind of text for the hearing impaired unfortunately are now seen in most dvd-releases now.

It's the thing where all the text jumps around on the screen, dependent on who is talking. So if a guy in the upper right corner is talking, the text is shown in the upper right corner.

It would be nice with a feature where you could somehow automatically make the program center ALL the subs.
Would that be possible? (or any other solution that might solve the problem).

[CoNS]

In my experience approx. half of the new region 1 DVDs have subtitles like that.

When I first saw the non-centered subtitles I had the same thought as you, and I don't even think it would be very hard for jeanl to implement a function to center all subpics, since he has already developed the code for it (there is an option to horizontally center modified subpics when removing hearing impaired text).

However, if you think it through you may realize that the result would not look pretty.

Often there're subtitles showing dialogue between two or more people on the screen simultaneously, e.g. "Hello" to the left and "Hi Mrs. Smith" to the right at the same time. If you center such subtitles, you won't be able to see that the lines are spoken by more than one person, and you may even end up in situations where the dialogue gets mixed up in the same lines (if the dialogues are at the same line vertically).

Subtitles which are centered from the start usually account for this by having a dash (-) at the beginning of each line of the dialogue, but non-centered subtitles don't.

I have gotten used to the non-centered subtitles by now. Usually they don't jump around all over the screen as you describe; they are mainly located in the lower half of the screen.

[jeanl]

There's an additional wrinkle. If you have two subs at the same time, in different spots, they're encoded as a single bitmap (in other words, they're not two individual rectangles that you can move around). Moving them around independently means re-encoding the bitmap, so it's not a simple extension of the current technique to move them around....
jeanl

[doggersen]

First of all thanks for the feedback to both of you , Jeanl and CoNS!

It might not be as bad as I make it, and one can probably more or less get used to it.
But it still seems to me that with a few changes it could be quite a lot better.

If we, for a start, forget about trying to solve the "wrinkle" Jeanl mentions.

Wouldn't it be easy to center the MAIN-parts of the subs on the middle (and also lower it a bit, since they are often on 3 lines compared to the normal 2 lines) ?
And since it would conflict with trying to center the separated words displayed on the same time, wouldn't it be possible to have the option of removing them completely or move them down to the bottom of the screen? (i suggest remove them as an option, since thet usually just consists of a couple of words).

Regarding the text-bits showed simultaneously; im not sure how possible it is, now that it has to be re-encoded first.

But if we pretend for a moment it's possible to re-encode them, I have an idea as to how to treat them.
Split it up, so that each word gets displayed ONE at a time.
Let's say that "hello" and "hello smith" are displayed simultaneously for 3 seconds, then one would have the program show the first "hello" in 1½ second, then disappear and have "hello smith" displayed for 1½ sec.

It should be possible to get to read in time, since they are displayed over the same timespan as previously, just not at the same time anymore.
Natural to say, those would then be able to be centered, without any overlaps.


Sorry about the clumsy formulations!

[Grave]

is it just me or are the displayed button positions off by a couple of pixels? (not subpics/highlites, just green button outlines)
(2 pixels off vertically, button position shifted upwards)
noticed this when i verified the correct positions after editing button postions in pgcedit (which cant display hilites)

[doggersen]

Having tested a few more DVD's today with those before-mentioned irritating "jumping around"-subs for hearing-impaired. I've come to the conclusion that it would indeed be great if one had the option of centering them (vertically/horizontally).
Never mind about those few cases in the movie where it can't be done (subs in two different spots).
It would still mean a big difference, and as i imagine, pretty simple to program.
And I can't see any negative side-effects.

[myso]

thanks jeanl for the great program. But i got some bugs.
Sorry if they are mentioned before, i didn't read the most of the topic. :)

My first problem is that if i move the subpicture it gets corupted.
If i select all DCSQTs and move it goes very well. it's a little long to choose in all subpictures the "all DCSQTs" function. I get this problem when i move subtitles in vobs and in sup files. The sup file was made with SubtitleCreator v2.2.2. I should probably use an older version that has "apply to all DCSQTs" option in "apply last modifications to all" page.
I think if the program works while moving the subtitles, as if the "all DCSQTs" option is selected. It would be fine.

[cweb]

I'm trying to open a dvd's vob files.. I'm getting in subpic selection the option 'All streams', but no choice for a particular stream.
The subtitles are mixed in English and French as a result..

How can this be fixed?

[jeanl]

If I understand you correctly, if you move a subtitle for which "All DCSQTs" isn't selected, that subtitle becomes corrupted? I will have to reproduce the problem and solve it. Thanks for the report. Just to be sure: what gets corrupted, and how do you find out that it is corrupted?
Jeanl

thanks jeanl for the great program. But i got some bugs.
Sorry if they are mentioned before, i didn't read the most of the topic. :)

My first problem is that if i move the subpicture it gets corupted.
If i select all DCSQTs and move it goes very well. it's a little long to choose in all subpictures the "all DCSQTs" function. I get this problem when i move subtitles in vobs and in sup files. The sup file was made with SubtitleCreator v2.2.2. I should probably use an older version that has "apply to all DCSQTs" option in "apply last modifications to all" page.
I think if the program works while moving the subtitles, as if the "all DCSQTs" option is selected. It would be fine.

[jeanl]

I'm trying to open a dvd's vob files.. I'm getting in subpic selection the option 'All streams', but no choice for a particular stream.
The subtitles are mixed in English and French as a result..

How can this be fixed?
Are you sure that you have separate streams for French and English? Also, is the .IFO file available in the same directory as the .VOB file (the IFO file is the one that would indicate the language for each subtitle stream)?

Jeanl

[cweb]

Are you sure that you have separate streams for French and English? Also, is the .IFO file available in the same directory as the .VOB file (the IFO file is the one that would indicate the language for each subtitle stream)?

Jeanl
Yes I managed to extract english subs with subrip as an alternative.

The IFO is there. I guess it's some protection..

[myso]

Well, yes. I made a test using DVDSubedit v1.68. I moved first two subpictures, in the first one i select "All DCSQTs", and in the second one i didn't select. The first one looked well after moving. But the second subpicture looks weird. It's like pixel lines of subpicture is not visible. One visible, after not visible. The visible lines were "discontinuous". I made a quick makro for selecting "All DCSQTs" for all subtitles. And it worked.
I got this issue only when using media player classic, and gom player. Subtitles seems well in other players like vlc, powerdvd, mplayer...
And when i move subpictures using v1.67 selecting "apply to all DCSQTs" in "apply last modifications to all" page, it goes well too.

Thanks for your help. :)

[jeanl]

myso,
Try the latest unofficial version and tell me if it doesn't work either. This will allow me to start from the "current" version.
http://download.videohelp.com/DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEdit1.389.zip

You mention version 1.68, I'm guessing you mean 1.38, right?
If you still see the problem, can you send me a SUP file and tell me how to reproduce the problem? (send directly to jeanldvd at free dot fr)
Jeanl

[jeanl]

Hi guys,
I've put a new "beta" version here:
http://download.videohelp.com/DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEdit1.396.zip

for you guys to test...
The main improvement is the ability to edit the bitmap with an external bitmap editing tool (such as mspain) and re-import it in the subpic data. Give that a shot, it's pretty cool.

Here's the change log from 1.389
Version 1.396

NEW: Bitmap editing is now available:
Added code to save a subpic as a bitmap (24 bit, full video size, b p e1 and e2 are black, R, G and B).
Added code to load a bitmap (24 bit, full video size, with only black, red, green and blue colors). After loading, the bitmap is substituted to the original subpic, black is b, red is p, green is e1, blue is e2. If the subpic data is not large enough to fit the encoded new bitmap, the subpic isn't replaced.
Added menu option to edit a subpic bitmap in one shot: it exports the bitmap to a temporary file, launches a selected edit tool, waits for the tool to exit and reloads the modified bitmap. Go to the preferences to select which tool to edit the bitmap with. I use paint.
When replacing the subpic with an imported bitmap, the commands are pushed as far back to the end of the subpic, to maximize the space available for the new bitmap.
Also...
Added rudimentary command line support: DVDSubEdit.exe FileName.VOB opens the single file FileName. Add -F to open the full domain.
When changing the color index in a CLUT for a pixel type and applying to all, the change is now applied to all selected subpics, regardless of whether they use the same CLUT or not.
Added option in ini file to force vertical moves by even numbers of pixels (for people who have seen problems with odd moves).
The value displayed by the transparency slider when "all pixels" is selected now reflects the average of all *used* pixels (excluding the background).
Fixed a crash that could occur when loading very short VOB files.
Add Fade-in now uses the current transparency as the maximum value during the fade (in other words, if the current transparency of the subpic is 12, add fade will make a fade-in from 0 to 12. When removing a fade-in, the maximum fade opacity is used as the fixed value.
When adding a fade-in, the commands are pushed toward the top of the subpic to make room for additional DCSQTs, if necessary.
Added option in the preferences for the x-y crop borders: you can decide how much bigger the background should be, relative to the text in the subpicture.
Made the app return 0 upon exit, which gets rid of the warning you get if used as a tool in PGCEdit.

[setarip_old]

Great meaningful addition!

See my other comments in the "Subtitles" "sticky"...

[blutach]

Thank you Jean for this great addition ;)

Regards

[President]

Thank's Jean. Very important and useful changes.

[mpucoder]

Is that a typo? you export BG as white, but import black? or is it a case of BG is everything that isn't PA, E1, or E2?

[r0lZ]

Yep, it's black in both cases. And currently SubEdit refuse to import a bitmap with an additional color.

[jeanl]

That was a typo, background is black both out and in. I'll fix that in my post.
Jeanl

[jeanl]

Folks, here's a new beta version (1.399) that fixes a few problems, but also changes the way the data and the commands are handled.
It would be great if you could test it on settop players, especially the "crop background", "add fade-in" and "import bitmap" functions.
A good thing to do after you save your changes is to reload in DVDSubEdit to check that nothing got majorly screwed up!
Version 1.399
http://download.videohelp.com/DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEdit1.399.zip

The zoom window can now display the subpic at a 1x or 2x magnification.
A few changes having to do with where the commands and the data are arranged in the packs:
. The commands are always moved by an even number of bytes, as this seems to be important for some players?
. When saving, the commands are moved as far down to the end as possible to make sure all subpic packs are preserved.
. After that, the data is moved down to fill the gap between the commands and the end of the data.
When importing bitmaps, the commands are moved as far down as possible, and the data as far up as possible to make more room for the imported bitmap.
When adding a fade-in, the data is moved up to allow moving the commands up too (to make room for the fade).
Added code to round the pixel color to the nearest valid one (it's very simple, so it may not do the smartest thing) but it should avoid most import errors due to shading/antialiasing etc.
Fixed a few bugs in the import bitmap routine (for cases when the imported bitmap didn't fit, or had the wrong colors).


Give it a shot and let me know if something's broken!
Jeanl

[setarip_old]

@jeanlAdded code to round the pixel color to the nearest valid one (it's very simple, so it may not do the smartest thing) but it should avoid most import errors due to shading/antialiasing etc.Does this mean that the program is now capable of importing anti-aliased bitmaps that contain more than 4 colors
(e.g. Those created by either PaintShopPro or Photoshop)?

[r0lZ]

Yes. (But I haven't tested that yet.)

But I think that SubEdit should export and import the real colors of the subpics, as defined in the CLUT, to let the user use antialiasing without too many constraints. The current primary colors are fine, but I doubt a paint program will let the user draw red characters with a blue outline, and be smart enough to draw the antialiazed pixels in green!

Of course, there is a problem when several different pixels use the same color in the CLUT, and with the transparent color(s), but in those case, SubEdit could replace the color by an unused primary color, or issue a warning and use the current method, or its default palette.

[jeanl]

@setarip_old, yes it will import them, but there's no guarantee that it will do the right thing. It was a quick fix, but not a smart one, and I'm not sure I'll keep it in.
@r0lZ,
I'm not sure I understand why using the "real" colors (as defined by the CLUT) is better than the arbitrary ones... In both cases, the paint program will have to be configurable to create the right colors for the anti-aliasing, assuming that it does that at all! But I'm not familiar with advanced paint programs, so I'll be open to suggestions...
Jeanl

[Mtz]

Quick test: exporting a BMP and reimporting the same BMP again.
1.
Original: Set Display Area: sx=171 ex=551 sy=206 ey=245
Modified: Set Display Area: sx=171 ex=550 sy=204 ey=246

2.
Original: Set Display Area: sx=171 ex=551 sy=206 ey=287
Modified: Set Display Area: sx=171 ex=550 sy=204 ey=287

3.
Original: Set Display Area: sx=132 ex=590 sy=38 ey=445
Modified: Set Display Area: sx=132 ex=588 sy=38 ey=446

In example 1 and 2 the new subpicture position (moving up) is visible in DSE. In 3, is not visible any change even if the change is real.

The small test used for this is here. (http://www.mytempdir.com/2036436) The subtitles streams are the same (excepting timmings).

enjoy,
Mtz

[jeanl]

It's possible for the sx,ex,sy and ey values to change because the new bitmap is cropped and re-encoded. The important thing is to verify that the bitmap ends up exactly in the same spot, regardless of these values...
Jeanl

[setarip_old]

I just did a quick test and, rather than modifying the anti-aliasing and reducing the number of colors to 4, it appears to be stripping ALL anti-aliasing and reducing the total number of colors to 2...

[Mtz]

I edited my previous post and added the sample. For the subpictures values changed for "sy", the new position is visible.

enjoy,
Mtz

PS: I forgot to say "Thank you for the new version!" Sorry... ;)

[setarip_old]

@jeanl

Shouldn't this "sticky" be combined with the "sticky" in the "Subtitles" sub-forum?

[blutach]

@setarip_old

Unfortunately, while we can combine the posts into one giant thread, they have to be housed in one or the other sub-forum (ie there is no mirroring capability, other than labelling one thread as "moved". This would have the effect of posters in one sub-forum actually ending up posting in another, which might not be what they want).

Regards

[setarip_old]

@blutach

Sorry to hear that you, as a moderator, believe this to be too complicated or undesirable.

The simple fact of the matter is that the two "stickies" are about exactly the same thing - DVDSubEdit updates and usage.

If anything, posters may be getting only half the information by all posters about this wonderful program by "jeanl", because it's not readily observable that "stickies" exist in two different sub-forums.

But, of course, this is just one member's opinion...

[AlanHK]

I mentioned this on Videohelp, but this seems the more appropriate place, so please ignore the other post if you see it.

Feature request: You have an option to set "Forced start". I'd like also an option to set Start default off. Many players automatically display subtitles if no default is set. Currently I have to edit with PGCedit to set this.
(http://download.videohelp.com/r0lZ/pgcedit/third_party/2cool/subtitles/subtitles_off_default_pgcedit.htm)

[jeanl]

@Mtz, you need to explain to me what you did and what seems not to be working... At this point I'm a bit confused!
I'm downloading your example...
Jeanl

[jeanl]

@setarip, this is the behavior I'm expecting. The current code rounds the RBG values to the nearest allowable value (0 or 255), so shades of green for example will be rounded to plain Green, (for values above 127) or black (for values below 127).
Like I said, the code isn't smart enough at the moment. It's only there to help import bitmaps that would otherwise not load...
Jeanl

[jeanl]

@AlanHK: This is a job for PGCEdit, as it requires adding commands to a PGC, something that DVDSubEdit isn't equipped to do...
Jeanl

[setarip_old]

It's only there to help import bitmaps that would otherwise not load...And it does that perfectly well ;>}

I'm looking forward to the time when the code is, as you put it, "smart enough" to generate 4 color, anti-aliased text.

[blutach]

@jeanl

As you might know, the green button outlines in letterbox mode are not displayed correctly. They are fine for WS.

Regards

[jeanl]

@blutach, yes, I'm aware of that.... That's something that needs to be fixed in the preview code...
Jeanl

[Anime]

hello, i love this tool, ultimate. have been using for quite long time.

do you think it is possible to make adjustable window size in future release?

my workshop monitor has some trouble controling some function above resolution 640x480.

* can it like having floating toolbar like photoshop
* or a detecting schemes of user resolution and provide scrollbar when needed?...
* or tabs at bottom or side chossiing tools..

currently i can only see... or use such function in this screenshot... below...

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/vaxva/misc/dvdsubedit_control.gif

i know... my monitor resolution suxs big time. but it is a panasonic TV rgb monitor which only gives 640x480....
which i find convinence by pressing on remote can watch TV/DVD already.... my room is also small and cramp doesn't allow me to have a place for another monitor....

sorry, just a small request hope a day will be fullfilled. but i also understands that i'm one of the few problematic fellows who might need this function who is lesser than the majority who doesn't need it.

[jeanl]

Anime, making floaing toolbars isn't not super easy (that would be a big rewrite), but I could add an option to make the window smaller, for example by making the command info area smaller... I'll look into it.
Jeanl

[Mtz]

From my sample: load DVD sample. Go to subpicture 3. Note the values. Save BMP. Replace that subpicture with the same BMP without modifing anything in it. Compare the new values with the old ones.

enjoy,
Mtz

[_Assie_]

Hi Jeanl,

When can we expect a HDDVD/Blu-RaySubEdit ?? :)

Greets,
Assie

[jeanl]

@Mtz: the bitmap is reencoded, and may not have the same "border" around the useful part of the picture (the text). As a result, it's quite possible for it to have start and end x/y values. But, barring any bug, the text should appear excatly in the same position relative to the video.
To explain more: Given a bitmap the word "TEXT", I can encode the bitmap by leaving 2 background pixels on every side of the word, and place the top left corner of the resulting encoded bitmap at position x=0 and y=0. The top left pixel of the letter T will be at x=2 and y=2.
OR, I can encode with a border of 1 pixel on every side, and place the top left corner of the resulting encoded bitmap at position x=1 and y=1. The top left pixel of the letter T will be at x=2 and y=2, exactly the same as above. But the sx/sy values will be different in both cases, even though the text is exactly in the same position.

Jeanl

[jeanl]

Hi Jeanl,

When can we expect a HDDVD/Blu-RaySubEdit ?? :)

Greets,
Assie
You've got to be kidding! I'm boycotting high def formats at the moment! :)
Jeanl

[jeanl]

Version 1.4 of DVDSubEdit is now available here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/)...

The main new feature is the ability to quickly edit the bitmap with an external tool and re-import it into the subpicture.

This is the change log since version 1.38.

New export/import bitmap function: You can save the current subpic as a bitmap, (either 4-bit, or 24-bit). The subpic is saved ignoring transparencies, using the current CLUT.
The bitmap size is the size of the video, and the subpic bitmap is placed as it would appear on a video display.
You can also import a bitmap into the current subpic. This will only work if there's enough room in the subpic packs to accomodate the encoded bitmap.
There is also a shortcut that saves the current subpic as a bitmap, opens your favorite bitmap editing tool, lets you edit it, then re-import it back into the subpic.
These functions make it possible to apply small changes to a subtitle, add things here and there, without the need to demux/remux the entire VOB files.
This is a HUGE time saver.
Be sure to read the doc (which has been updated) for details on this powerful new function.
Changed the CLUT selection to a drop down with only 2 choices: The normal IFO CLUT, or the automatic CLUT (which attribute colors based on which pixel is used for text, background, outine and antialias). The old "Auto CLUT" wasn't useful at all.
Clicking on a pixel type (such as "b" "p" "e1" or "e2") in the CLUT area temporarily shows that pixel with full opacity, hiding all other pixel types. This is very convenient to quickly see what pixel is used for the body of characters, for the background, etc.
Added a slider to visualize any I-Frame within the duration of the subpic.
Added a "Add Fade-in" function to add a fade to a subtitle. The fade-in lasts 1/8 of the total duration of the subtitle, and reaches the transparencies used in the original.
Added a "Remove Fade-in" function to remove fade-ins.
Added option in the preferences for the x-y crop borders.
Added option in preferences to control how much larger the background rectangle is relative to the size of the subpic itself, when the "Crop Background" command is used.
Added option in ini file to force vertical moves by even numbers of pixels. This is only useful for certain buggy players.
Added rudimentary command line support: DVDSubEdit.exe FileName.VOB opens the single file FileName. Add -F to open the full domain.
Added right-click context menu to command display area to save the subpic info for all selected subpics as a text file. This will allow complex searches in a text editor if desired.
The zoom window can now show the subpic at a 1x or 2x magnification factor.
The "apply to all" data is no longer reset after performing an "apply to all" operation. This will allow you to apply a set of modifications to all subpics in one stream, then again in another stream etc.
If you attempt to change the duration of a subpic that has an infinite duration (no STP_DSP - stop display - command), DVDSubEdit offers to add a STP_DSP command for you (which will enable you to adjust the duration).
Added display of subpic number in its own stream (as opposed to in all streams).
The goto function works as before if "All Streams" is selected. But if a particular stream is selected, it will go to subpic N in this stream.
When changing the color index in a CLUT for a pixel type and applying to all, the change is now applied to all selected subpics, regardless of whether they use the same CLUT or not.
Now using a better Y Cr Cb -> RGB mapping function, which yields a true white when Y=255 (Cr=Cb=0). Thanks r0lZ!
Made the app return 0 upon exit, which gets rid of the warning you get if used as a tool in PGCEdit.

In the hearing impaired removal code, any trailing space after "Man: " is now removed.
As well, times such as "8:30 pm" are no longer removed.
And text in all caps left of a colum as in "RADIO ANNOUNCER: " is also removed.

The value displayed by the transparency slider when "all pixels" is selected now reflects the average of all *used* pixels (excluding the background).
Fixed a transparency problem in the display (fully opaque subpics were not displayed as completely opaque)
Fixed a problem with the duration slider that could occur if the PTS of the next subpic was smaller than the current one!
The delay value in the DCSQT are now computed the right way (they point to a frame).
When importing bitmaps, the commands are moved as far down as possible, and the data as far up as possible to make more room for the imported bitmap.
When adding a fade-in, the data is moved up to allow moving the commands up too (to make room for the fade).


Enjoy, and let me know if you encounter any problem with this version.
Jeanl

[blutach]

Thanks Jean!

Regards

[dirio49]

Thanks Jean :)

[goonix]

Thanks for the new version, Jean!

But the green outlines of the hotspot rectangles in LB and PS menus are still wrong.

goonix

[jeanl]

Yes, that's correct. I haven't fixed that yet (that code is in the dvd previewer, adapted from DVD2AVI, I have to take a deep breath before diving into that!)... :)
Jeanl

[tom942]

Thank you Jeanl :).

[kikatu]

Thanks you, very useful tool indeed.

[Anime]

Anime, making floaing toolbars isn't not super easy (that would be a big rewrite), but I could add an option to make the window smaller, for example by making the command info area smaller... I'll look into it.
Jeanl

nice hope it be added.!! =D
_____________
hey by the way; a day when using 1.384 open full domain (fine)
i try to add about 2(same TIMED)*stream*51 "INF" using 1.384 and save
after playing the the dvd i found 1*stream;subtitle not displaying in certain area
and reopen with 1.384 it reports that a area(tba) corrupted / error and will skipped reading it.

then i went have no choice and remake the subtitle with already INF before muxing into vob, so then solve the issue.

actually i also don't know why the 1st time open full domain no error reported, but after playing in dvdsubedit and save the error comes out. and only happens to a stream and not in both stream with exactly same timing and exact same INF location

[jeanl]

It's quite possible that that version had a bug in the routine that adds a DCSQT to time a subtitle... :(
If you confirm the bug with the latest version, please let me know and I'll look into it...
Jeanl

[GrofLuigi]

Well, yes. I made a test using DVDSubedit v1.68. I moved first two subpictures, in the first one i select "All DCSQTs", and in the second one i didn't select. The first one looked well after moving. But the second subpicture looks weird. It's like pixel lines of subpicture is not visible. One visible, after not visible. The visible lines were "discontinuous". I made a quick makro for selecting "All DCSQTs" for all subtitles. And it worked.
I got this issue only when using media player classic, and gom player. Subtitles seems well in other players like vlc, powerdvd, mplayer...
And when i move subpictures using v1.67 selecting "apply to all DCSQTs" in "apply last modifications to all" page, it goes well too.

Thanks for your help. :)

This is the behaviour I got on 1.401. Looks like interlaced picture with every second line missing (but not all, and some lines added at bottom/top). At first I thought it was only display glitch, but it was present in the saved file. Don't know which step made the corruption, I'll just try approximately decribing the steps I made:

SRT created with Subtible Creator and muxed with Muxman free (both latest versions), no transparent color, worked on one subtitle and then applied to all (but not in one step, and also reloaded several times both fast and full domain).

Changes involved: changing b,p,e1,e2 colors, including defining custom color for the last two, moving subpic up/down, and setting forced start. In the middle I applied transparency in order to position the subtitle, but did not save the change. I did not touch any other commands.

For now, I have reverted to version 1.389 and haven't seen the bug (but also tried to minimize handling).

Jeanl, I'm sorry I can't provide any screenshots or more detailed bug report, I've deleted the faulty project.

GL

[ericf]

Hello again. I think it's time you looked at the retime function again.
It's simply not working properly. If I can make it work on one DVD, the next one won't work at all. All other changes seem to work but everything concerned with retiming subtitles is weird.
I compiled a DVD the other day of 2 TV episodes, each one separate title.
To change subtitle color you have go to both parts of the subtitle. First save hour one and then save hour two.
Then I click the left button with the text: Re-time this subpic. I move the slider so that the subs are moved forward by 0,3 seconds. I go to File > Save all modifications and there's a short blink from the progress meter. If I try with the right hand button with the text: re-time selected subpics the same happens when I tell DVDsubEdit to save.
The modifications have not been done.

Of course, if the whole subtitle is mistimed one of the earlier parts of the DVD process is wrong, but that's what this program is for.

Please explain to me why one DVD can be changed but not others.
Thank you.

ericf

[jeanl]

ericf, I just did a test on one of my DVDs and didn't find any problems. Could you possibly find the log file (don't start the app, as that might erase the log, but find it in your %TEMP% directory
C:\Documents and Settings\YOUR_NAME\Local Settings\Temp\DVDSubEdit.log
The log file might have some message indicating why things simply don't work at all in this case.
Jeanl

[r0lZ]

Then I click the left button with the text: Re-time this subpic. I move the slider so that the subs are moved forward by 0,3 seconds. I go to File > Save all modifications and there's a short blink from the progress meter.
According to what you said, you have modified the timing of only one subtitle, and saved it.

[jeanl]

If I try with the right hand button with the text: re-time selected subpics the same happens when I tell DVDsubEdit to save.
@r0lZ: this should modify all selected subpics. Note: When you select that you don't need to save after the modification, because the modification is done in place, without the possibility of "undo", and there's a warning panel to let you know before you do it.
Typically, on a 1h DVD, this operation takes quite a bit of time (the time does depend on the amount by which you move), on my most recent tests, moving by 3 seconds took 2 minutes. The progress bar normally shows what's happening, and you should see two phases (the second phase is the update of the "trick-play pointers").
If that's not happening, the function must hit a snag early on, and there should be some info in the log.
Jeanl

[jeanl]

To make it very clear:
- To re-time 1 subpic, press the "retime this subpic" button.
- To re-time all selected subpics, do not try "Apply to All" (this does not work for re-timing, that's the only exception). Instead, use the "Retime selected subpics" button.
In both cases, there's no undoing, and there's no need to save.

If things don't seem to work (for example, the function seems to finish much too fast), open the log (Help menu, "view log file").

Jeanl

[ericf]

Here's the log file.
I hope you can see what is going wrong.
I fixed the timing problem at the source (DVDLabPro) but it's sometimes necessary to do some re-timing.

Thanks.
ericf

[jeanl]

Thanks ericf... I'll have to wait to get the log file. If you want you can also send it to jeanldvd at free dot fr...
Jeanl

[jeanl]

Well, the log does not say much, except that things go waaay too fast! assuming the last operation you ran was the retiming...
jeanl

[ericf]

I'm not totally sure if the retiming was the last thing I tried but I don't have the disc on the HD anymore.
I got the timing problem fixed in the authoring and then continued to author the next DVD.

I still haven't had any luck with the DVDs I tried to retime last time I asked.

Thanks for replying.
ericf

[masscamp24]

How does one call DVDSUBEDIT through the tools section of PGCEDIT :stupid:

[r0lZ]

Application: <path>\DVDSubEdit.exe
Arguments: -F "%p\%v"
Working folder: %p

The rest is up to you. I have the Run app in background option ticked.

To launch DVDSubEdit, select any PGC of the domain with the subpics to edit, and call the tool.

[Comers]

Hi jeanl,
Thanks for your magnificent program!
Just got Shoot 'Em Up /R1 NTSC/. Using DVDSubEdit 1.40
opened full domain (main movie) Changed only e1 subpic color using IFO CLUT and applied modifications to all. Saved all.
After reopening again full domain during the vob scan got:
"Inconsistend data in subpic at LBA 518646.
Unknown command 156".
Scrolling DVDSubEdit then will generate error and exit.
The DVD playback at this point stops showing any subpics.
No problem with ver. 1.38
Hope this might help...

[r0lZ]

I had exactly the same problem with another movie (The Prestige, Z2, French edition.) However, in my case, that was after having moved all subpics down. Jeanl and I have tried to locate the bug, but unfortunately, that problem is very rare and difficult to reproduce by Jeanl without the original VOBs, so it is not fixed yet.

[jeanl]

Comers, is the error repeatable?

When you say, "no problem with ver. 1.38" do you mean that 1.38 can open the modified subpic OK, or do you mean that when you make the same modification using 1.38, there's no problem when you then reload the file?

In any case, here's what you could do:
- Re-rip VTS_xx_1.VOB (apparently, the problem is located toward the end of the first VOB) from your disc.
- Using CutFile (available from jsoto's vobblanker website http://jsoto.posunplugged.com/others.htm), cut the vob files from LBA 518000 to LBA 522000. This should give you an 8MB file which includes the problematic subpic.
- Make a copy of it (so you can send it to me), and try to reproduce the bug with that small VOB file. Hopefully, you'll be able to reproduce the bug.
- If so, send the 8MB file to me, using yousendit.com for example, (send me the link at jeanldvd at free dot fr).
- If I'm able to reproduce the bug, it will be easy for me to fix...

Thanks for your help with this. I've tried to make this bug happen for the last few months, but it's been really hard, as r0lZ mentioned...
Jeanl

[Comers]

Hi jeanl, Hi r0lZ
Sorry I didn't respond earlier - just got home from work :)
Yes jeanl, 1.38 can open the modified subpic OK
and yes, 1.38 can make the change and reload the file with no problem (repeatedly).
Fortunately I still have the VOB so will give you the cut.
BRB...

[jeanl]

That's quite surprising! (that 1.38 can open a vob file that was messed up by 1.40!)... I'll be curious to look at the file!
Jeanl

[Comers]

Hi guys,
Test vobs uploaded to yousendit.com
The error appears always and exactly at one subpic.

@jeanl
1.38 can change all subpics colors successfully.
1.40 will mess that subpic so 1.38 afterwards
will report the same problem at that spot.
So I finally used 1.38 and watched the movie
on a standalone and it's perfect.

Best regards,
Comers

[jeanl]

Comers,
I got the files, but I can't reproduce the bug. Are you able to make the bug happen on the small VOB files you sent me? If yes, can you tell me exactly how?
I can see what went wrong in the file that's messed up, though... Bad offset to the commands. :(
But I would like to be able to reproduce the bug.
Jeanl

[Comers]

Hi Jeanl,
Tried many times with same result - error + crash when sliding.
And it's the same subpic - 2nd one in the VOB cut.
There is something else - when I saved all modifications with 1.40 it was done in a flash!! 1.38 need couple of secs though.
Also if using the VOB cut in 1.40 there is no way to pick color
from the palette - 1.40 freezes with not respond.
1.38 does that color change with no problem and I'm talking abount the modified (messed up) VOB.

Is it possible to be a system error?
My PC is pretty regular one: Intel D975XBX2 board, Dual Core @ 2.67GHz, 4GB RAM (remapped to 3.25GB but tested ok with memtest86), GeForce 8800GT. No overclocking, nothing exotic.
Win XP Po (x86) SP2, DirectX 9c (Nov'07) .NET 1.1, 2.0, 3.0
No viruses :)
I can recall reading some posts about the problem with XP (32-bit) with large memory - if there is some usage of unsigned instead of integer vars in the program code.
Ex: NeroRecode 2.x crashes if I'm transcoding (<100%) the main movie. But no problem with cce or burning or anything else for that matter.
Best regards,
Comers

[Comers]

Oops, forgot ..
I've used the big (VTS_..) vob, changed the subpic color
in 1.40 and saved. Then used CutFile to give you the piece.
And did the same cut from the original (unmodified) vob to give you some reference data.

[jeanl]

no no... it's certainly not a system thing.
I sent you an email with more detailed instructions to help me, if you feel up to the challenge :)
THanks in advance...
Jeanl

[Comers]

Hi Jeanl,
Always up to challenges :)
But 1.409 is still making the same problem.
Check your mail.

Best regards,
Comers

[jeanl]

Comers, I got it! I was able to reproduce the bug, and find out where it came from. It was a nasty one, introduced in 1.40.
So I will prepare an update very soon! THanks for your tremendous help!
Jeanl

[r0lZ]

Yeah! Great! That bug was very frustrating, as, without a backup, you can lose all your work!

[Comers]

Hi guys,
Happy to hear it. :)
Once again many thanks for your outstanding work.
Comers

[jeanl]

Version 1.41 of DVDSubEdit is now available here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/)...

There are two very important bug fixes. Other than that, I added a "Most Recently Used" list (in the open menu) and started adding support for colorscheme. This isn't completely done but I want to release the bug fixes now.


This is the change log since version 1.40.

Fixed a serious bug that was introduced in version 1.40, which could cause errors in the saved subpic data if field 1 was encoded before field 0. Thanks r0lZ for finding the bug and providing the example!
Fixed another serious bug that was introduced in version 1.40, which could also cause errors in the saved subpics! Thanks Comers for the help!
Fixed a bug that could cause a crash when a sup file was dragged and dropped on the app.
Fixed a bug that could cause a given VCID to appear multiple times in the VCID selection, when angles are present.
Fixed the bad display of the button outlines in pan&scan and LB mode.
Fixed a problem when editing bitmaps with SUP files, which could cause crashes.

Added support for "Most Recently Used (MRU) files". The file menu now lets you quickly reload the last files you've previously loaded. A fast reload enables all normal functions, except for the retiming functions which require the files to be scanned from scratch.
Implemented colorscheme display for menus. When displaying menu highlights, you can visualize the selected and activated states for each individual button. For now, use Ctrl-Q to toggle between selected and activated, and Ctrl-N / Ctrl-P to go to the next/previous button.
During the in-place bitmap editing, if two pixels have the same color in the currently used CLUT, a message is issued, and CLUT changed to automatic. This is essential to ensure proper exporting/importing of subpic bitmaps.
Command line support: passing a list of files now opens them all. This means you can now drag/drop a bunch of files on the app icon.
Also added -A input command argument to let DVDSubEdit open the largest VTS (usually the movie). You can also pass video_ts.ifo (it has the same effect).

Added a line 1/* in the VCID selector to select all vob cells with a given VOBID and any CELLID.

Improved the error handling in the function to retime subpics.
Subpics with bad commands are now better identified, and subsequently ignored (to avoid crashes).


Enjoy...
Jean

[r0lZ]

Great release, Jean! Thanks!

[Comers]

Perfect Jeanl,
Thanks :)

[CoNS]

Many thanks for your continued development of this awesome tool, jeanl. :thanks:

(I still cross my fingers and hope you get around to improving - or just bugfixing - the you-know-what part of the tool :) )

[jeanl]

Many thanks for your continued development of this awesome tool, jeanl. :thanks:

(I still cross my fingers and hope you get around to improving - or just bugfixing - the you-know-what part of the tool :) )
:)
Jeanl

[blutach]

As always, many thanks Jean.

Regards

[Teebeeke]

Can anyone tell me what this error is about ?

Serious error while parsing commands at LBA 217048
Something is wrong with this SPU.

I only get that when i use convertx2dvd and try to edit the dvd with dvdsubedit. Sometimes only once, but more then often i get 3-4 of those errors.

[jeanl]

This means that there's a problem with this SPU (subtitle)... this can be, for example, a bad offset, or an invalid value... This usually means that whatever tool was used to create or modify the subtitle messed it up (apparently, convertx2dvd in your case?). I'm not familiar with that program though...
Jeanl

[ericf]

I've got a problem. It seems like the subtitles on my authored DVD can't be seen. If I open them in DVDSubedit, they are clearly there, but I can't see any subtitles when I play the DVD.

Any ideas?

Thanks.
ericf

[blutach]

Have you got the CLUT right and, if there are buttons, the colourscheme (note the transparency/contrast settings).

Regards

[ericf]

This is what happened.
I tried to do that copy colors from original ifo into the authored ifo.
Disaster struck. The subs were either completely green or completely black.

I was unable to change those settings without using Ignore IFO CLUT or Automatic CLUT. But when changing the subs to the correct colors like that I couldn't save the modifications. Nothing was changed according to the Apply last modifications...

So I open the DVD again and no subs show.
I tried several combinations of colors but it didn't work.
I had to re-author the DVD again to get the subs to show.
Not even deleting the modified files (ifo) and putting back the newly authored files made the subs appear.

Not sure whay this happened.

But why can't I copy the colors of the ifo and copy them into a second ifo? I tried it with sup files and it seemed to work (Not sure it was needed at all. Mabye the sup files contain all info that is needed and doesn't have to be modified.).

Anyway, after re-authoring the DVD I opened it in DVDSubEdit 1.41 (thanks for that, by the way. I had the same problem as the other guys with subs not showing) and changed the colors and vertical position of the subs (it's a 4:3 letterbox movie called A Killer's Romance). It worked this time.

Hope you got some info that is useful.
I just can't understand how the subs could be seen in DVDSubEdit but not in any of my players.

Thanks.
ericf

[blutach]

The easiest way to copy the CLUT over is to open the project in PgcEdit and in another instance of PgcEdit, open the original. Double click on the title, and click copy all in the CLUT area. Now, without closing this instance of PgcEdit, go to the reauthored PgcEdit instance and in the title, click on paste all.

See the tooltips.

Regards

[ericf]

I have the same problem again.
The subs disappear.
Why can't I get the subs to appear just like they look in MaestroSBT? I get the white background with either blue or red text and black outline on the BMPs from MaestroSBT.

I use Muxman and then it turns to blue with red outline.

The trouble is that I have to use two colors for the main subs. I can do it two ways. Create a style with a different color or just add the color code into the script. MeastroSBT accepts it without any problems. I can change the colors into white with black outline and grey with black outline. No big problems the first time. But the CLUT showed a different shade of grey than what I had put into the script. Ok, so I changed that color in the CLUT. Saved. Boom, no more subs. If I change the existing CLUT into a new one, shouldn't that just replace the old one and cause no problems?

The View Log File command only shows a time and 0% done.

I'm confused.

ericf

Update:
One more try. S**t happens. Well, I make the color changes in DVDSubEdit 1.41. Only the program has now changed my settings so that some subs that were 1grey/1white are now 2grey. I try to change it back to what it's supposed to be. DVDSubEdit doesn't save. What's up with that? Why can't I re-save when I have made changes and I can see that color changes have been done in the drop down menu?
Ericf

Here's a log file. I triied saving at 20:15 but it doesn't show.

20:11:32 -- 197.27 MB scanned (8.47 MB/s) -- 22 subpics -- 12 secs to go
20:11:32 -- 198.24 MB scanned (8.49 MB/s) -- 22 subpics -- 11 secs to go
20:11:32 -- 199.22 MB scanned (8.50 MB/s) -- 22 subpics -- 11 secs to go
20:11:32 -- 200.19 MB scanned (8.51 MB/s) -- 22 subpics -- 10 secs to go
20:11:33 -- 201.17 MB scanned (8.53 MB/s) -- 22 subpics -- 10 secs to go
20:11:33 -- 202.15 MB scanned (8.54 MB/s) -- 22 subpics -- 9 secs to go
20:11:33 -- 203.12 MB scanned (8.55 MB/s) -- 22 subpics -- 9 secs to go
20:11:34 -- 204.10 MB scanned (8.56 MB/s) -- 22 subpics -- 8 secs to go
20:11:34 -- 205.08 MB scanned (8.56 MB/s) -- 22 subpics -- 8 secs to go
20:11:34 -- 206.05 MB scanned (8.58 MB/s) -- 22 subpics -- 7 secs to go
20:11:35 -- 207.03 MB scanned (8.58 MB/s) -- 22 subpics -- 7 secs to go
20:11:35 -- 208.01 MB scanned (8.59 MB/s) -- 22 subpics -- 7 secs to go
20:11:36 -- 208.98 MB scanned (8.60 MB/s) -- 22 subpics -- 6 secs to go
20:11:36 -- 209.96 MB scanned (8.61 MB/s) -- 22 subpics -- 6 secs to go
20:11:36 -- 210.94 MB scanned (8.62 MB/s) -- 22 subpics -- 5 secs to go
20:11:37 -- 211.91 MB scanned (8.64 MB/s) -- 22 subpics -- 5 secs to go
20:11:37 -- 212.89 MB scanned (8.66 MB/s) -- 22 subpics -- 4 secs to go
20:11:37 -- 213.87 MB scanned (8.67 MB/s) -- 22 subpics -- 4 secs to go
20:11:37 -- 214.84 MB scanned (8.69 MB/s) -- 22 subpics -- 3 secs to go
20:11:38 -- 215.82 MB scanned (8.68 MB/s) -- 22 subpics -- 3 secs to go
20:11:38 -- 216.80 MB scanned (8.70 MB/s) -- 22 subpics -- 2 secs to go
20:11:38 -- 217.77 MB scanned (8.72 MB/s) -- 22 subpics -- 2 secs to go
20:11:38 -- 218.75 MB scanned (8.74 MB/s) -- 22 subpics -- 1 secs to go
20:11:39 -- 219.73 MB scanned (8.76 MB/s) -- 22 subpics -- 1 secs to go
20:11:39 -- 220.70 MB scanned (8.78 MB/s) -- 22 subpics -- 0 secs to go
20:11:39 -- 221.68 MB scanned (8.79 MB/s) -- 22 subpics -- 0 secs to go
20:11:39 -- 221.76 MB scanned (8.79 MB/s) -- 22 subpics
20:11:39 -- 100% done
20:11:39 -- 100% done
20:11:40 -- 100% done
20:11:40 -- 100% done
20:11:40 -- 100% done
20:11:40 -- 100% done

Yet another edit:
Now the subtitles disappeared after I moved them vertically!

The log:
20:19:27 -- 0% done
20:19:27 -- 95% done

What the problem is, it seems, about my colors is that they change position. It's not like All subs on top are grey/white. I change that when I need to. That means you can't have a constant color depending on position. Does this confuse DVDSubEdit?

ericf


Mabye I can clear something up.
When I have the BMPs ready from MaestroSBT all 1 color (intended to be white) subs are red. Ok? But the subs with 2 colors (White and Grey) switches the colors so that what should end up red (white) becomes blue (grey) in the BMP.

Is this the reason DVDSubEdit gets confused?

Is this a glitch in maestroSBT?

Also, if I use CTRL+V to save a particular change, if I then make a change to another subtitle and then use the Apply last modifications to all, will the CTRL+V edited sub be changed or will it be unchanged?
ericf

[jeanl]

Mabye I can clear something up.
When I have the BMPs ready from MaestroSBT all 1 color (intended to be white) subs are red. Ok? But the subs with 2 colors (White and Grey) switches the colors so that what should end up red (white) becomes blue (grey) in the BMP.

Is this the reason DVDSubEdit gets confused?

Well, DVDSubEdit shows it the way it's encoded in the subpic packs, and in the IFOs... your post is quite confusing, it's hard to follow what you did and what you got...

Also, if I use CTRL+V to save a particular change, if I then make a change to another subtitle and then use the Apply last modifications to all, will the CTRL+V edited sub be changed or will it be unchanged?
ericf
When you do an "apply to all" then the one you modified with Ctrl-V is also modified. "to all" means to all the subtitles currently "selected" (i.e., visible using the selection slider), with no exception. So if you move 1 up, then move all the subtitles down, the one you moved up will be moved down.

If you're still having problems, you should send me the SUP file (save as .SUP) along with the IFOs at jeanldvd at free dot fr... I'll take a look.

Jeanl

[ericf]

I guess the trick is to make small moves.

I open the subs in DVDSubEdit.
I make all subs white with black outlines using apply to all.
I go into each of my 4 subtitle tracks and change the color of the individual subs, top or bottom and grey and white combinations, with the CTRL+V key combination.
Then I save all modifications and exit.

Now I have a working copy.

I'm not sure I can open the subs again and change the vertical position and still have the subs appear. They dissapeared once before when I did that.

Can't understand CLUT and those things.

ericf

[jeanl]

Can't understand CLUT and those things.

ericf
Well, that's the problem. It's hard to understand subtitle colors if you don't get into the technical aspect :( ...
You have to understand that the subpic data (in the VOB file) contains no indication as to what the colors are. The subpic data only defines 4 pixel types, b, p, e1 and e2 and each type is assigned 1 color.
The color itself is defined in the CLUT that's located in the IFO.
So, if you change the IFO CLUT, the colors of your subtitles will be changed as well... That's what's a bit complicated to understand.
And that's why you always have 2 ways of modifying subtitle colors:
1) You can change which CLUT color is assigned to which pixel type (for example, map pixel type b to color 5 in the CLUT's 16 colors). You do that DVDSubEdit by clicking the color tile next to the pixel type and selecting one of the 16 available colors. This isn't very flexible since you have to select among the 16 colors defined in the CLUT. But the advantage is that you can change the color for 1 subtitle at a time, if that's what you want, leaving all other subtitles unchanged.
2) You can change the color defined in the CLUT. This modifies the IFO, but you have to realize that all the subtitles that use that CLUT color will be modified. So, if you modify the color #3 in the CLUT, to change it from red to blue, then all the subtitles that use color #3 in the CLUT will see the red change to blue as well. In DVDSubEdit you do that by clicking the tile to open the CLUT color picker, then shift-cliking one of the 16 CLUT color to change it to any arbitrary color.

You really have to understand that stuff to be able to change your subtitle colors in a predictable way.
Moving subtitles up and down has absolutely no effect on the color, unless there's a bug in DVDSubEdit. If you subs disappear after you move them, there's a bug somewhere.

Jeanl

[laserfan]

Hey jeanl, tonight I used v1.41 to modify the CLUT and adjust positions of some 900+ subs, and upon Save All Modifications got dozens of errors "Failed to seek/read 0-th subpic pack at LBA xxxxxx". Nothing in the log but a bunch of "XX% done" messages all the way to 100% as I OK'ed my way thru the errors (no way to abort). The VOB loaded OK, and my various edits worked OK (CLUT and position for every one), but I can't save the changes. Any ideas? I can look at the subs at the error locations (LBA xxxxxx) and so I don't know what this error might mean.

The VOB btw is a single 6.7Gb file, made this way (using DVD Shrink) because I want to play it back from a media player that doesn't like multiple VOBs.

The "only" other oddity is that the mpg itself is 25fps PAL changed to 29.97 using DGPulldown. But the whole thing plays perfectly well with both AC3 audio and the subtitles in perfect sync. The subs just needed to be tweaked a bit for clarity.

I suppose I can go back and re-do the original sup file (output from SubtitleCreator) so I don't have to use DVDSubEdit at all, but thought I'd seek your counsel first. TIA for any ideas...

[jeanl]

Yes, that's a know problem/bug, whatever you want to call it. If the vob is larger than about 1GB (that's normally the largest size in a DVD), DVDSubEdit fails when time comes to save the modifications. :(
It's been reported once before, but I haven't found the time to fix it yet, sorry about that. At this point, I don't know a good solution for you. I'll try to see if I can do a quick fix tonight...
Jeanl

[laserfan]

Wow, you're all over this tonight jeanl! I just jumped-around on my 7Gb vob and it actually seems to have taken the edits???!!!??

Anyway, you've given me the idea to simply edit instead the 7 VOBs I still have, the ones before I combined them into one with DVD Shrink!

Thanks for the quick reply! :)

[jeanl]

That should work...
Jeanl

[laserfan]

Now I am struggling with appearance; I hope you can guide me: I demuxed a Swedish disc, and added an English subtitle (from an .srt converted to .sup by SubtitleCreator) by muxing the .ac3 and .m2v and .sup (used IfoEdit). But I can't for the life of me get my player to make these subtitles look as good as the original (Swedish!). The originals are crisp & clear, but my English are very "fuzzy" as if (at least) the emphasis values are wrong. But I've modified these in dozens of ways and can't seem to make a difference.

Is there any way to "Copy & Paste" the CLUT and sub values from the original into my new .sups and/or VOBs?

Is there any way to directly set the NUMBERS that I've noted from the original in my new subtitle?

Struggling (obviously) as I don't understand the CLUT, but it APPEARS that my media player is utilizing info from the VOBs alone--if I remove the IFO from the original folder entirely the VOBs play/look great. Removing the IFO from my homemade VIDEO_TS still looks like crap.

Any ideas??? :confused:

[dirio49]

Adding sound to dvdsubedit? :D
and as an extra feature , ability to edit menus + bovs.
such as removed, add buttons, edit menu commads. :D
later

[jeanl]

Is there any way to "Copy & Paste" the CLUT and sub values from the original into my new .sups and/or VOBs?

Is there any way to directly set the NUMBERS that I've noted from the original in my new subtitle?

Struggling (obviously) as I don't understand the CLUT, but it APPEARS that my media player is utilizing info from the VOBs alone--if I remove the IFO from the original folder entirely the VOBs play/look great. Removing the IFO from my homemade VIDEO_TS still looks like crap.

Any ideas??? :confused:
PGCEdit can copy the clut value from one PGC to another, but I doubt that that's your problem! DVDSubEdit can't do that.
What numbers are you talking about? Also, it's quite surprising that a DVDPlayer could play a DVD without the IFOs. You can usually play the VOB but then you can't display the subtitles.
The CLUT is defined in the IFO, so if you don't have the IFOs, the player would have to make a wild guess as to what color to assign to which pixel type.

In any case, why don't you do this:
- Save the original swedish subs as a .sup file, along with the IFO that correspond to that movie (the IFO from the movie VTS).
- Do the same thing for your home-made version.
Send me these two sets at jeanldvd at free dot fr. I'll take a look...

Jeanl

[jeanl]

Adding sound to dvdsubedit? :D
and as an extra feature , ability to edit menus + bovs.
such as removed, add buttons, edit menu commads. :D
later
Sound is coming (it's actually already working in fact, with a real playback with subs). Menus bovs, and button commands, that's probably best done with PGCEdit...
I'll post a tiny beta for you guys to test with the new sound and real-time playback support.
Jeanl

[jeanl]

Hi guys,
Here's a beta version that those interested can test.

http://download.videohelp.com/DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEdit1.4102.zip

Be careful what you do while the video is playing. There are no safeguard so I think it won't be very hard to crash the app by doing silly stuff while the video is playing.
One thing that's not supported is changing some of the attributes while the video is playing (that would be useful).

Compared to 1.41, here are the changes:
Version 1.4102

Added support for VOB files larger than 1GB.
When reloading from the MRU, the list of subpics is now updated as the reloading takes place.
Added support for real-time playback of video with audio and subtitles.
Better reporting of errors found in the subpic streams.
If the user aborts while a vob file is being analyzed, the vob is no longer put in the MRU.

Version 1.4101

Fixed a (very old) bug that could cause a subpic that had been moved down to cause a UI spillover when the background video wasn't displayed.
Added better handling of non MPEG2 video (the video isn't displayed, which avoids crashing!).
Added an ini option (AutoForceDisplayVideo) to not automatically display the video when opening VOBs etc.
Fixed a problem that could occur when no CLUT was found (no IFO file for example).
Fixed cosmetic problems related to showing or hiding the background video.

[laserfan]

...it's quite surprising that a DVDPlayer could play a DVD without the IFOs.No, I said I was using a media player (the Pinnacle players).

But I found the solution, if not the answer! ;)

By making a small snippet of m2v, ac3, and sup I was able to alter the sup w/SC and mux/test quickly. What I found to work:

Set Color: e2=9 e1=2 p=3 b=9
Set Transparency: e2=0 e1=0 p=15 b=9

So on the DVDSubEdit screen it looks like a pitch black/block background with pure white lettering. Via the media player it looks white with no background.

Oddities: these players show normal DVD VOBs just fine (as I said above); why need these other settings under this case? Also, there was horrific "shimmering" before, but w/the above settings lettering is rock solid.

I never argue with success--thanks jeanl for your quick responses!

[blutach]

Jean,

Great addition! However, if you press stop, move the slider, and press start again, while the audio is fine, the subs are not appearing.

Note, you can move the slider while playing with no ill effect.

Is it just me or is there a bug?

Regards

[jeanl]

Jean,

Great addition! However, if you press stop, move the slider, and press start again, while the audio is fine, the subs are not appearing.

Note, you can move the slider while playing with no ill effect.

Is it just me or is there a bug?

Regards
OK, here's a few things you need to realize:
- When you start Play, the stream that correspond to the current subpic is selected automatically (because you don't want to play the video and see all the subpics of all the languages!). So, if later on there's no subpics in that stream you might not see anything
- If you start in an area where there's a long gap without subpics, the video will play and no subpics will be shown, of course....

Perhaps that's what you're seeing...
Jeanl

[blutach]

No, there's lots of dialogue and only 1 audio and 1 subpic stream. I am moving quite long distances, too.

Regards

[ericf]

The subs disappeared again. There's no info in the log to indicate a problem.
I just quick opened the subs and used the slider to move the subs down a bit. Applied to all and saved (Very quick save window, almost like nothing happened).
I open the DVD and no subs!

There must be a bug.
This is the only thing I find in the log:

19:09:18 -- 0% done
19:09:18 -- 0% done
19:09:18 -- 2% done
19:09:18 -- 4% done
19:09:19 -- 5% done
19:09:19 -- 7% done
19:09:19 -- 9% done
19:09:19 -- 10% done
19:09:19 -- 12% done
19:09:20 -- 13% done
19:09:20 -- 15% done
19:09:20 -- 17% done
19:09:20 -- 19% done
19:09:20 -- 20% done
19:09:21 -- 22% done
19:09:21 -- 24% done
19:09:21 -- 26% done
19:09:21 -- 27% done
19:09:21 -- 28% done
19:09:22 -- 30% done
19:09:22 -- 31% done
19:09:22 -- 33% done
19:09:22 -- 34% done
19:09:22 -- 35% done
19:09:23 -- 37% done
19:09:23 -- 38% done
19:09:23 -- 39% done
19:09:23 -- 40% done
19:09:24 -- 40% done
19:09:24 -- 41% done
19:09:24 -- 42% done
19:09:24 -- 44% done
19:09:24 -- 46% done
19:09:25 -- 48% done
19:09:25 -- 50% done
19:09:25 -- 52% done
19:09:25 -- 55% done
19:09:25 -- 57% done
19:09:26 -- 59% done
19:09:26 -- 61% done
19:09:26 -- 64% done
19:09:26 -- 66% done
19:09:26 -- 69% done
19:09:27 -- 72% done
19:09:27 -- 74% done
19:09:27 -- 77% done
19:09:27 -- 79% done
19:09:27 -- 83% done
19:09:28 -- 85% done
19:09:28 -- 88% done
19:09:28 -- 90% done
19:09:28 -- 93% done
19:09:28 -- 96% done
19:09:29 -- 99% done
19:09:38 -- 9% done
19:09:38 -- 19% done
19:09:38 -- 29% done
19:09:39 -- 39% done
19:09:39 -- 49% done
19:09:39 -- 59% done
19:09:39 -- 69% done
19:09:39 -- 79% done
19:09:40 -- 89% done
19:09:40 -- 99% done


???????????
ericf

[jeanl]

What does it mean that they disappeared? Are they still visible in DVDSubEdit? Where did they disappear from?
Jeanl

[ericf]

I think you can see subs in DVDSbEdit no matter what you do to them.

I can't see the subtitles in any player on my computer.
That's what happens now and then when I use the slider to re-position the subtitles vertically.

I don't know why, but it's the second time it has happened for me.

I do the work one time with the subtitle colors.
I exit.
Decide I need to lower the subs. Open them in DVDSubEdit again and move them vertically.
Save (doesn't really seem to save) and exit.
Oops, the subs have disappeared.

ericf

[jeanl]

OK I see (of course, this has never happened to me :( ).
Could you send me a snippet? You could cut 5-10MB of the VOB in question, making sure that there are some subs there, then zip that up with the IFOs, and send me that via http://www.mediafire.com/ (a great hosting site btw)...
I'll take a look. I should be able to see why they're not showing.
Jeanl
P.S. use jsoto's cutfile little app to cut the vob. It's on his vobblanker website, in the tools section.

[[Tobi]]

Carefully and friendly questioningly...

Is the used preview in DVDSubEdit identically with the PgcEditPreview? My problem is, the audio stutters after a short time and then it is no more synchronous with the subtitle.
I have this behavior not with the preview in PgcEdit.

Is it maybe possible to change the directory for the DVDSubEdit log?
I would like to be able to see the logs without changing every time the folder options in the control panel.

[jeanl]

Hi Tobi,
It's the same code in both programs, BUT .... the pgcedit preview can use the overlay buffer (which is much faster) while the DVDSubEdit app cannot (because of the need to superimpose the subtitles), which means the preview in DVDSubEdit takes more CPU. If it takes too much, then the audio stutters.
One thing you can do to avoid that is to make the DVDSubEdit window smaller (as small as possible in fact), this helps on my own computer.

You can't change the log folder, but there's a button to open the log in the Help menu...
Jeanl
P.S. If you still get the stutter problem after making the window small, send me an email, and I'll see if I can send you a version that downsamples the video even more (if you don't mind doing a few tests for me).

[[Tobi]]

My cpu uses 47% for the preview in DVDSubEdit and in PgcEdit I really use the overlay. I cannot deactivate the overlay in the control panel of the graphics card. In the current driver of the graphics card, the option exists no more. The window has the smallest size, but the audio still stutters.

I know the button in the help menu, it would be only nicer if the logs were not saved in a hidden folder. However, I accept it...

OK, mail is on the way....

[jeanl]

mmm, if the cpu really is 47%, then the processor isn't running out of cycles. Unless you have a dual-core... Is that the case? (in such cases, the CPU rating shows the overall percentage, usually, which means 47% is 1 core running at near max capacity).
Jeanl

[blutach]

My 3800x2 runs up to 50%, but shares the load. This is on the largest preview screen.

Regards

[jeanl]

It shares the load between the two processors? Amazing...

Jeanl

[blutach]

Looks that way on the graphs in Process Explorer. :)

Regards

[ericf]

It seems like I can't replicate the problem with the disappearing subtitles now.
I'll get back to you on that when it happens again.

ericf

[jeanl]

Please, so. Save the subs as a sup file... Or a tiny sample of the VOB (probably better).
Jeanl

[robsoslz]

Hi Jeanl

Did you manage to do the new program DVDSubEdit?
New version DVDSubEdit?
Exemple:
Optical Character Recognition (OCR)
I'm getting married. --> Erase
What? --> Insert text
(BUTTON)
* Size text
* Fonts
* Erase Text
* New text

Hug

Thanks,

Robson (Brasil)

[jeanl]

No, The "insert text" idea isn't going to work, for reasons I explained to you... That's really not feasible... Same for the fonts, or resize...
Jeanl

[SquallMX]

Hello Jeanl, i too still have the missing subtitles problem, this happen if i change the subtitle(s) position(s) in the frame, after a little research:

PowerDVD 6: Play subtitles just fine
PowerDVD 8: Play subtitles just fine
Intervideo 6: Play subtitles just fine
PlayStation 2: Play subtitles just fine
Standalone DVD: Play subtitles just fine
MPC - Homecinema (Internal MPEG Decoder): Some subtitles appear, some don't.
Nero Showtime: Some subtitles appear Ok, some appear with interlaced like look.

Sample (Original):
http://spanish.doom9.org/Soft4/Original.rar

Sample (Modified with DVDSubEdit 1.4102):
http://spanish.doom9.org/Soft4/Mod.rar

Nero ShowTime Screen Capture:
http://spanish.doom9.org/Soft4/ShowTime.jpg

Greetings :thanks:.

[jeanl]

Thanks for the detailed bug report and the sample, that's really useful. I'm taking a look.
Is MPC mediaplayerclassic?
Jeanl

[kumi]

I'm pretty sure he means http://sourceforge.net/projects/mpc-hc/

[jeanl]

Well mediaplayer classic shows none of the modified subpics!!!!!
But your example is great, it allows me to figure out exactly what is wrong, and I think I have it...
I'll keep you posted.
Jeanl

[SquallMX]

Kumi is right, I was talking about MPC Homecinema, it's a great mod of the original Media Player Classic. But the bug is also present in the original (Media Player Classic 6.4.9.0).

Jeanl, in this particular movie (Hitman Uncut) most of the subtitles are lost in MPC, but in others (Sony Pictures DVD mostly) some subtitles appear, some don't, and in others (Warner) all the subtitles appear correctly.

Probably because diferent studios use diferent authoring programs/tools?

Incidentally i found a workaround that can fix the problem:

1.- Open DVDSubEdit.
2.- Select the the affected VOBs.
3.- Click on "Crop Subpic Background".
4.- "Edit" --> "Apply last modifications to all" --> "DO IT!".
5.- "File" --> "Save All Modifications"
6.- Close DVDSubEdit.
7.- Problem solved!!!

Sample (Workaround):
http://spanish.doom9.org/Soft4/Fixed.rar

Thanks for your help :thanks:.

[jeanl]

SquallMX,
Thanks to your excellent debugging and your perfect sample DVD, I was able to reproduce, and find the source for the problem.
This is a problem that's been plaguing DVDSubEdit since the beginning (well, not quite). When moving subpictures by an odd number of pixels, some players have problem displaying the subpicture. This is the problem you encountered.
Up to now, I hadn't been able to figure out what the real cause for the problem was, but your small example provided the key!

As it turns out, mediaplayerclassic (and other players) don't like it when the offset to the Top Field is larger than the offset to the Bottom Field. Subpictures are organized in two fields, the top and the bottom fields, the top field corresponding to even lines, the bottom field to odd lines. The subpicture data contains two offsets into the binary representation of the bitmap, one offset for the top field, and one offset for the bottom field. The idea behind that was to allow for half-resolution bitmaps (saving only the even lines, and setting the two offsets to the same value, so odd lines would be the exact copies of the even lines, thereby saving half the space).

Up to now, when DVDSubEdit was moving a subpicture by an odd number of lines, for example, by 1 line, it was pointing the top field to the first line of the bottom field, and the bottom field to the second line of the top field, which caused the Top Field Offset to be larger than the Bottom Field Offset (since the top field is usually placed before the bottom field).
Most players don't have a problem with that, but mpc does. :(

This was a known problem, and the .ini file for DVDSubEdit has a hidden variable ForceEvenMoves that's normally set to 0 but could be set to 1 to avoid the problem. If set to 1, only vertical moves by an even number of lines are allowed, which was known to work in all cases.

I have modified the code to detect when the top field offset is larger than the bottom field offset, and swap the two fields in that case before saving. On your sample DVD, this fixes the problem and allows moving subpictures by odd numbers of line.

I will post an update to DVDSubEdit, so you can try it on your full DVD, hopefully this will work just fine.

Jeanl

[r0lZ]

Finally that bug has been trapped! I had the same problem with my Sony, and probably also with a recent cheap Magnum combo. I'm glad it has been fixed! Thanks, Jean and SquallMX!

[SquallMX]

:thanks: Jeanl.

[jeanl]

Thanks guys, but it's mostly SquallMX's very nicely made before/after DVD that pointed me in the right direction.
It's not 100% fixed yet, but it's almost there.
Jeanl

[jeanl]

OK, here's a version (beta 1.4203 EDIT: sorry, that's 1.4103) that fixes this problem.
EDIT: I'm removing this version because of a bad bug. Here's 1.4106 instead.
http://download.videohelp.com/DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEdit1.4106.zip
SquallMX, could you possibly test this version on your DVD? I think it will work, it does work on the sample you sent me. Remember to move the subpics by odd numbers, otherwise the old version would work just fine.
Jeanl

[myso]

Thank you jeanl for this useful program. :) I use it very often.
And thanks for the update, as i was suffering from deinterlacedish subtitles.

We can extract existing subtitle stream from a dvd as a *.sup file, is it possible to add a dvd substream from a *.sup file? If yes it would be great. Many people need to subtitles to dvds to watch movies. It's not a difficult job but people are afraid of doing it. If this feature could be implemented, many people can do it easily.

To add a completely new subtitle stream you need to modify .ifo attributes, but many dvds are coming with multiple subtitles and replacing one of them can be easier. We can retime subtitles if we open the dvd fully. And we also can replace subpictures. The only thing left is to add new subpictures to an existing subtitle stream if needed :)
I hope you can do it. :o

anyway thank you again. :thanks:

[blutach]

To add a subpic stream, use muxman.

Regards

[jeanl]

As blu said, it's best to use muxman. The problem is that if you add a stream, you have to add packets here and there to the vob file, making it larger, which means you have to worry about how you multiplex and time everything. It's not very easy, and muxman does a wonderful job, so that's clearly the way to go.
I think subtitle creator has a kind of wizard to do that, which involves calls to muxman (I'm not 100% sure though).
Jeanl

[kumi]

I have modified the code to detect when the top field offset is larger than the bottom field offset, and swap the two fields in that case before saving. On your sample DVD, this fixes the problem and allows moving subpictures by odd numbers of line.
Just curious,

Can the new version of DSE fix a disc that was previously "broken" with an old version of DVDSubEdit?

[jeanl]

yes, but you have to make a change to the subpic for it to be saved (DVDSubEdit only saves the subpics that have been modified).
So for example, you can move all subpics by 2 pixels up, then do that again 2 pixels down, then save.
All the subpics that have the fields in the "wrong" order will have them reversed upon saving.
Jeanl

[SquallMX]

Works Perfectly!!!

No problems or bugs so far.

Again :thanks:.

[jeanl]

Great! Thanks for letting me know, and thanks again for the test DVD, that was invaluable!
Jeanl

[kumi]

Thanks a lot for the clarification jeanl.

By the way, you said the new beta is version 1.4203, but the executable says 1.4103. Mistake?

[jeanl]

Yes, sorry, it's 1.4103, I"ll correct that in the post.
Jeanl

[jeanl]

Hi guys!
Over the week end, I found and solved a bad bug in the latest beta of DVDSubEdit posted above.
Here's a link to the version you should use instead.
http://download.videohelp.com/DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEdit1.4106.zip

The bug only occurred if you used the "Add Fade-in" function, after having moved the subtitles by an odd number of pixels. The resulting subpics became completely worthless because the offset to commands was erased.

Please use the version above instead!
Thanks,
Jean
P.S. The format of the MRU files has changed, so when you use this new version, none of your previously opened files will appear in the File menu, sorry about that.

[dirio49]

Are allowed to modify the text, because it seems we are not allowed.
erase selected text does not work if you select the whole subscript and click the button
later

[jeanl]

mmm, I just tried it and everything works normally. Is that on a DVD or a sup file?
Jeanl

[alfixdvd]

With new version 1.41016 when I open a sup file, the DvdSubedit's window is filled with garbagge. If I minimized it and restore all's ok.

[jeanl]

OK, I'll look into that.
Jeanl

[jeanl]

I tried it and it works for me. Can you send me the sup file in question, and I'll see if I can reproduce the problem?
Send it to jeanldvd at free dot fr.
Thanks.
Jeanl

[dirio49]

mmm, I just tried it and everything works normally. Is that on a DVD or a sup file?
Jeanl

DVD, that i have blanked a lot of other stuff in it

ok, multi line erase does work with erase button
as for the edit, in can erase text but not add text or modify it

Example
-ls he here yet?
-No.

[jeanl]

DVDSubEdit has never been able to edit or add text! :D :D
It would be a nice feature but it's extremely hard to implement...
So this isn't a bug. It's a limitation.
Jeanl

[dirio49]

oops, sorry.:D
what about the multi line selecting and click erase button

[jeanl]

OK describe the bug again, because I'm not understanding what the problem is...
Thanks,
Jeanl

[dirio49]

if you select all the text in a multi line subtitle and try to delete it with the erase buttons nothing happens

[jeanl]

OK, I'll check that! :)
Jeanl

[jeanl]

This is a limitation of the erase function that has been here all along.
You can only select characters that are on the same line, the code does not allow you to erase a selection that spans two lines. I'll if I can fix that.
Jeanl
EDIT: I fixed the problem. I'll post an update tonight.

[alfixdvd]

Hi jeanl

I send you the sup file, the ifo file, and to screen shoot's of 1.4106.

[jeanl]

Excellent! Thanks. I realize I didn't post the update. I will do so soon.
Jeanl

[jeanl]

Here's an update:
http://download.videohelp.com/DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEdit1.4107.zip

It should fix alfixdvd's problem, and it allows selecting multiple lines in the OCR to erase them...
Give that a shot...
Jeanl

[alfixdvd]

It should fix alfixdvd's problem
Jeanl

Bad news jeanl the problem of garbagge he persists in 1.4107 as in version 1.4106.

version 1.41 dont has the problem of DvdSubedit's window garbagge when open a sup file.

I think is a problem of "refresh" or "repaint" when closes dialog of load sup file, and brings dialog of load ifo file. it is then when it appears the black garbagge on the DvdSubedit window.

[SuperDre]

When opening a 'Full domain' I can only select VOB files, but when entering an ISO filename and press OK It does load it properly, so would it be possible to add at least '*.* all files' to the selection or '*.ISO'..
thanx..

[jeanl]

????????? You can load an ISO with DVDSubEdit?! First I've heard!
Jeanl
EDIT: :D :D :D Indeed, it seems to "work"!!! This is clearly a bug! but it might be a useful one as it allows you to change the ISO (which is normally read-only) directly. There are problems though: of course, it won't find the IFOs, and all the colors will be wrong, also, I'm guessing it treats all the subpics found as belonging to the same VTS, combining all titles, all menus etc! This is a recipe for problems, but if you know what you're doing, you can probably get away with it.
So, my answer is, it's a bad idea to allow loading ISOs (because the program does not have the necessary safeguards), but I won't prevent it, for people who know what they're doing...

[GrofLuigi]

:D :D :D Indeed, it seems to "work"!!! This is clearly a bug!
It's clearly a feature. :D :D :D

GL

[jeanl]

Bug, Feature, what's the difference anyway? :D :D :D
If you know what you're doing, then it's a feature, if you don't then it's a bug! Your pick! ::D
Jean

[CoNS]

????????? You can load an ISO with DVDSubEdit?! First I've heard!
Jeanl
EDIT: :D :D :D Indeed, it seems to "work"!!! This is clearly a bug! but it might be a useful one as it allows you to change the ISO (which is normally read-only) directly. There are problems though: of course, it won't find the IFOs, and all the colors will be wrong, also, I'm guessing it treats all the subpics found as belonging to the same VTS, combining all titles, all menus etc! This is a recipe for problems, but if you know what you're doing, you can probably get away with it.
So, my answer is, it's a bad idea to allow loading ISOs (because the program does not have the necessary safeguards), but I won't prevent it, for people who know what they're doing...
Amazing!! Would it be very difficult/time consuming to add such safeguards in case of loading an ISO?

[jeanl]

But why? There's a bunch of stuff wrong with opening an ISO, unless you can parse the filesystem. I don't even want to go there! But you have to admit it's of limited use...
Jeanl

[SuperDre]

ahh k.. I'll extract it then and change it, because that's exactly what was wrong, you can't change everything in one run because of the menu's etc.. but ofcourse it would be great if eventually it would be supported, as it seems you already are able to load about everything.. hehe.. and I'm clearly someone who doesn't know what he is doing, the only reason (at the moment) I use dvdsubedit for is adjusting the position of the subs in 2.35:1 movies so the subs are in the picture and not in the black bars (I have a projector and then having subs in the black bars is very annoying).. hehe...

[jeanl]

Well, instead of doing that on your ISO, you can just do that on the files, then burn them with ImgBurn in just one shot without the need to create an ISO. Selecting just the movie when you open an ISO is going to be very difficult, unless the VCIDs are unique, which might happen, but would be lucky.
I too have a projector and I too adjusts my subtitles to be where I like them to be. I"m guessing you're talking about movies that have already been letterboxed in a 4:3 format (I have seen that, it's horrible), in which case they put the subs in the black bars, but your projector can rescale the pic so it occupies an entire 16:9 screen so you need the subs inside the picture.
Anyway, I don't think I'll do anything on that anytime soon! :D :D
Jeanl

[CoNS]

But why?
Obviously in cases where you have the DVD stored as an ISO on the HD, like I often have, it would save you the mounting, extracting and re-creation of the ISO.

[SuperDre]

A new question: I want to set new defaults for the Border, so I go and edit dvdsubedit.ini, but then I see the following:
Border4_3S_N=48
Border4_3S_P=58
Border4_3LB_N=60
Border4_3LB_P=72
Border4_3LBS_N=89
Border4_3LBS_P=106
Border1_85_N=10
Border1_85_P=12
Border2_39_N=62
Border2_39_P=74

What does the _N and _P stand for? (at the moment for the current movie I'm trying to move the subs the default seems to use the _P..

[jeanl]

N stands for NTSC and P stands for PAL :) ... I guess I could have made that a bit clearer! Sorry about that! You must be in PAL land then...
Jeanl

[SuperDre]

ah.. thanx.. and yes I'm in a PAL country, but it depends on the dvd (I've got PAL & NTSC).. great tool, I use it for positioning subs into the 'active' part, if only there were some dvd-players (or a firmwareupdate for the PS3) which can do it on the fly... thanx for the tool...

[jeanl]

I fully agree with you! It would be very easy for a DVD player to do that on the fly, completely trivial! I don't know why they don't allow you to do that, but I guess it would be a bit of a UI problem, and probably not that very many people are interested in such a feature.
Jeanl

[tandi]

hi jeanl, i have a little problem using dvdsubedit
i add new subtitles to an existing DVD using muxman & vobblanker
but it seem the color gone weird & the position one the sub is out of range so when i play it in stand alone player i can't saw that sub
so i tried to change color & the position
for position i did it like this way :

open full domain - select ifo ( i select the vts_02_1.vob ) - adjust position in subpic vertical position - apply last modification to all - save all modification

then after fix the sub position with dvdsubedit, then i check with powerdvd when i press play button it goes straight to scene menu not play the movie instead, and in scene selection menu i tried to choose scene 1 , 2, 3, ..... but it keep in scene selection page , can't play the movie
i mean when we press play button it have to play movie
when we press scene button it have to go to scene selection menu, right ?

after doing with vobblanker have tried to play it with powerdvd it didn't have any problem everthing go smooth except for color & position sub

so sorry my english is not very good

[jeanl]

Hi Tandi...
Tell me if I understand you correctly:
- The original DVD plays OK in PowerDVD before you make any changes with DVDSubEdit.
- After the change of color and position your make with DVDSubEdit, the DVD no longer plays normally (play movie goes to scene selection and scene selection never takes you to the movie).

Tandi, I suggest you start again from scratch, from the beginning. I can't think of anything that DVDSubEdit does that could cause this to happen. DVDSubEdit does not modify the navigation (it really can't!). I suspect something got corrupted in your IFOs, or your IFOs got out of sync with your VOBs, but I really don't think this has anything to do with DVDSubEdit...
Jeanl

[tandi]

- The original DVD plays OK in PowerDVD before you make any changes with DVDSubEdit.
- After the change of color and position your make with DVDSubEdit, the DVD no longer plays normally (play movie goes to scene selection and scene selection never takes you to the movie).


yap that like that
sorry jeanl, didn't understand what is the meaning start again from scratch
if you mean start again from the beginning, i have try it several time, i really confused here, didn't know where i do wrong
my earlier post is from here, user as pcb
http://forum.videohelp.com/topic338721-60.html?sid=55761048db70c0ac370c04912d3e1556

and i don't know if i can / not provide link from another site , correct me if i am wrong to post above link

i just tried over & over again , just after muxman
so have add the sub , only have main movie , didn't have any menu yet
change the position in dvdsubedit , after apply last modification for all - save all modification
test it with powerdvd , when open it the player only freeze can't play the movie
so i tried to play the movie before changing with dvdsubedit , it didn't have problem

really need help here jeanl

[cweb]

Sometimes when I try to ocr subtitles, dvdsubedit mistakes 'I' for '['..
any ideas on what to try / change etc?
I usually end up editing the srt file manually but if I could prevent this, it would be more convenient.

[jeanl]

Sometimes when I try to ocr subtitles, dvdsubedit mistakes 'I' for '['..
any ideas on what to try / change etc?
I usually end up editing the srt file manually but if I could prevent this, it would be more convenient.

Difficult to fix that and make it work for all fonts in all cases. That's one of the shortcomings of the OCR technique used in dvdsubedit (gocr). It's not so easy to fix problems like that without creating other problems with other fonts... Manually editing is the only viable solution I can see for now, sorry...
Jeanl

[cweb]

Difficult to fix that and make it work for all fonts in all cases. That's one of the shortcomings of the OCR technique used in dvdsubedit (gocr). It's not so easy to fix problems like that without creating other problems with other fonts... Manually editing is the only viable solution I can see for now, sorry...
Jeanl
Thanks anyway. It's already a very useful too even in its present state.

[blutach]

You can search the SRT for special characters like []()_:# and then make a decision.

Regards

[cweb]

You can search the SRT for special characters like []()_:# and then make a decision.

Regards
That's one of the things I do usually..

[jeanl]

Version 1.5 of DVDSubEdit is now available here (http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/)...


There's an important bug fix having to do with moving subs by odd numbers of pixels, but the most important improvement is the preview with audio.

This is the change log since version 1.41.

Added support for real-time playback of video with audio and subtitles. There are two new buttons that can be used to play the video while displaying the subpictures. One plays the video normally, the other one loops around the current subpic. There is a drop down in the preferences for the frame-per-second adjustment, in case your machine is running out of cycles when playing video (which is possible because DVDSubEdit does not use the overlay buffer, and therefore consumes more cycle than a normal video playback engine).
Added support for VOB files larger than 1GB.
Added an option to only select subpics that are fully transparent.
Changed the behavior of the "Hide" button. Instead of making all pixels transparent, it assigns all pixels to "background".
Added better handling of non MPEG2 video (the video isn't displayed, which avoids crashing!).
Added an ini option (AutoForceDisplayVideo) to not automatically display the video when opening VOBs etc.
Finally fixed the problem of vertical moves by odd numbers of lines, by swapping the top and bottom fields when the top field ends up below the bottom field after a move. This should fix the problems with media player classic and other players.
Fixed a display problem that occurred when loading sup files with IFOs.
Fixed a bug that occurred in the OCR when subtitles were present at the top and at the bottom of the display, and one attempted to erase some characters at the bottom.
Fixed the wrong display of the number of MB scanned during the scanning of a VOB file.
Removed the "Not enough room for padding block" error (changed to a warning in the log since it's not crucial anyway).
When reloading from the MRU, the list of subpics is now updated as the reloading takes place.
Added better reporting of errors found in the subpic streams.
If the user aborts while a vob file is being analyzed, the vob is no longer put in the MRU.
Fixed a (very old) bug that could cause a subpic that had been moved down to cause a UI spillover when the background video wasn't displayed.
Fixed a problem that could occur when no CLUT was found (no IFO file for example).
Fixed cosmetic problems related to showing or hiding the background video.
Modified the way the subpic info is saved and loaded (for fast reloading of previously scanned DVDs). This simplifies the code and the file. As a result, the first time you run this version, none of your recently-used files will be available for fast-reload.
Fixed a bug in the "Save as sup file" function that prevented a new sup file from being created.
Added code to deal with a padding stream smack in the middle of our subpic data, as seen in DVDs created by ConvertXtoDVD.
Fixed a problem in the timecode display. The value didn't correspond to the time shown in a player if the PTS of the first VOBU wasn't close to 0.


Enjoy...
Jean

[blutach]

Thanks very much for the hard work Jean - especially on the preview.

A small feature request please? Maybe have a preference for always answer OK to switch to autoclut when editing BMP with external tool when 2 colours collide. It's just a bit of a pain to always answer yes (I suppose I could change to autoclut anyway).

Regards

[kotyczka]

Thank you very much for this new version of DVDSubEdit!

One minor "bug": You have forgotten to update the version
info in the VERSIONINFO section of the resource file (still 1.4/1,4,0,0).

I am not sure about the source code (dated 09-Sep-2008 18:27).
Is it version 1.5 or 1.4103?
VERSIONINFO shows 1.4, whereas VERS is defined as "...1.4103..."
And BTW in DVDSubEditSource.zip the file Resource.hm is missing.

[jeanl]

Thanks kotyczka,
I'll fix the version info (blutach must be cracking up, this is a recurrent problem for me! :D )...
I'll upload the source code too.
Jeanl

[jeanl]

I've put the source code up including the missing file...
Enjoy...
Jeanl

[cweb]

thanks for the update!

[blutach]

this is a recurrent problem for me! A VERY recurring problem :D :D :D

Regards

[mattstan]

Hi Jeanl,

We corresponded a few years back about the horizontal positioning of subs in DVDSubEdit at the time you were implementing that feature and back in beta-release days and I beta tested horizontal positioning for you.

DVDSubEdit has continued to be a most useful tool, many thanks for all your work on it.

Today I came accross what I think may be a bug, certainly it is an error somewhere of some kind.

I was testing the forced subtitles of 'The Lord Of The Rings: The Return Of The King' DVD (opened full domain) of which there are just 3 in the 185 minute movie. I told DVDSubEdit to display only the forced subtitles of its single subtitle stream and I noted the time of all 3 so that I could check just the 3 forced subtitles were displayed correctly when viewing the movie.

The 3 starting points of the forced subtitles are:

01:15:56, 01:16:02, and 01:28:15.

The first 2, 01:15:56 and 01:16:02, were both correctly shown when playing the movie and at the time DVDSubEdit had said.

However the 3rd at 01:28:15 was the wrong scene, not the same frame that DVDSubEdit had shown which corresponded to 01:28:15 into the mivie, and no forced subtitle was displayed there. On further investigation I found that frame which was very near the end of the movie at 02:57:25 and sure enough at that point the frame that DVDSubEdit has shown to correspond with the forced subtitle appeared the correct forced subtitle was displayed.

It's no problem for me, all is working and the 3 forced subtitles are displayed during the movie playback at the correct time. However I thought you would like to know that for some reason DVDSubEdit said the 3rd of 3 forced subtitles should be displayed at 01:28:15 even though the frame shown by DVDSubEdit actually occurs at 02:57:25 as does the forced subtitle during movie playback.

There is a problem somewhere, I hope this rather long explaination helps you diagnose the problem.

Regards,

mattstan

[blutach]

@mattsan

I have seen this before too, right at the end of VCIDs. Sometimes, the first subtitle of a VCID is pushed into the previous VCID after editing with DVDSE and using DVD Rebuilder - check that out.

Regards

[jeanl]

Yes, that's a problem I need to fix... Thanks for the bug report...
Jeanl

[mattstan]

I have seen this before too, right at the end of VCIDs. Sometimes, the first subtitle of a VCID is pushed into the previous VCID after editing with DVDSE and using DVD Rebuilder - check that out.
I hadn't used DVD Rebuilder on it, the error occurred after stripping just the DVD's full movie, audio, and subtitle tracks with DVD Shrink (no compression mode).

Yes, that's a problem I need to fix... Thanks for the bug report...
Jeanl
No problem, glad to help. If you need any extra info. let me know and I'll get it for you.

Regards,

mattstan

[THXTEX]

Hi,

Thanks for this nice program. With the recent release I have discovered an issue.

If you open a .sup file without loading a IFO the screen is garbled.

[ericf]

Hello.
Thanks for the update of the program.

The below text seems to be redundant. Saving a second time in DVDSubEdit1.5 seems to have updated the IFO CLUT to the correct colors.

(I have a question.
I opened my DVD and made changes to first all subtitles (White) and then some subtitles (Blue).
Then I saved the project.

I checked the DVD and found the blue color to be wrong. I opened the DVD again and made changes. Then I saved the project. I opened the DVD again and checked the colors in WinDVD.
The color changes had not been implemented.

If I open them in DVDSubEdit again the right colors are there in the stream.

Is it possible to open a DVD and change things a second time?
The program doesn't seem to save the VOB changes. Only the ifos and since the ifos doesn't seem to update with the correct colors...
I should mention that the color blue is a new color that wasn't in the original CLUT.)

Thanks.
ericf

[jeanl]

Ericf, so is this a bug, or did you find that there was no bug in the end, I'm a bit confused.
Sorry for not responding earlier, I haven't had much time to work on DVD-related stuff lately. :(
Cheers,
Jeanl

[alfixdvd]

I am using the version 1.5 and when I Save selected subpics as .sup file the created file has the attribute of read only. If I try to open it with dvdsubedit it does not show any stream. Not warning of error is showed.

If I remove the attribute of read only everything works well.

What happens?

[jeanl]

??? I'll try to replicate the bug... Thanks.
Jeanl

[ericf]

jeanl: I think my problem was ifo-related. This ifo had 3 VTS but the DVD (video vts) only had one. The subtitles in VTS 01 had the correct info from DVDSubEdit. VTS 02+03 (episodes 1+2) didn't. I just copied the colors of VTS 01 to 02+03 and it worked fine.

Now, I'm trying to find out about subtitles with different colors.

I'm doing some projects where I have one regular color for the dialog and another for the song subtitles.
The colors look like they should in MaestroSBT when I check the preview but when I make the SST and the bmps the colors change.

When I open the result in DVDSubEdit the subtitles are blue with a red outline.

The information about a different color is in the clut but how do I change the clut so that I don't have to edit the color of the song subtitle manually?

I think I have noticed that the second color combination is in the left pair of the clut. Is that correct? So if I change that for one subtitle and have the correct color on the right for the regular dialog, then save changes for all subtitles, will the two different subtitle styles have the correct color all through the subtitle stream?

It's really tedious to go through every subtitle you want to change colors to and then save that edit manually (Ctrl+v).

Any way to make this easier?

Or is it something I can "fix" in MaestroSBT? I tried many different settings for the 4 colors in that program but never managed to get the subtitles to look right without any color edits later.

Thanks.
ericf

[Mtz]

jeanl, can you implement some feature to modify the sy and ey to be always even? I have problems (bottom garbage) with all subpictures with odd values.

enjoy,
Mtz

[jeanl]

jeanl, can you implement some feature to modify the sy and ey to be always even? I have problems (bottom garbage) with all subpictures with odd values.

Are you sure the problem is really related to sy and ey being odd?
Jeanl

[Mtz]

Yes, the problem is when one is even and the other is odd. With both even or both odd, no problems. The garbage is only on TV using SAP and not appear in the DVDSubEdit preview.

enjoy,
Mtz

[jeanl]

from a pm from Mtz:

mmm, do you see the problem with anything other than a DVD player? I.e., on a soft player on the computer?The problem is only on standalone players.
OK, then this is going to be hard. Did you see the problem with several standalone players? or just one? I can add the code just for you, but it's best if I can understand if I'm doing something not legit. I have never observed the problem and I'm using DVDSE daily to move my subpics...
Jeanl

[r0lZ]

Maybe it's the bug I had with my KISS player. When I've tried to locate the problem, I was convinced that it was related to the even moves, but we have never really fixed the bug. We have never checked the sy values.

[jeanl]

Well, if all you're doing is moving the subpic, both values should change in sync, so they should both be even or odd at the same time. I'm wondering how Mtz is getting one odd and one even after a modification if that wasn't the case in the original subpic...
Jeanl

[Mtz]

The subtitles are created with Subtitles Creator.

Edit:
as far as I can tell, standalone players will try to display the same number of fields (top and bottom) for a given subtitle.
When those are not equal (ey-sy=odd), it displays garbage (which is not really garbage, is the very first line of the subtitle)

enjoy,
Mtz

[Sir Didymus]

Please be very very careful with subtitles generate with SC!!!

The bug you are observing depends on the fact that this application very easily generates subpictures out of spec.

The bug (whose solution is pending since long time) is known. See here for details on the matter:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1188904#post1188904

Cheers,
SD

[r0lZ]

I did not know that, Sir. But if you do not change the default display area in SC, I guess it produces good subpics, right?
Anyway, I have never noticed any problem with SC, but I had some garbage problems on some standalone players with DVDSubEdit after having cropped the background of the subpics of commercial DVDs. So, I'm convinced that there is something wrong in DVDSubEdit. However, the garbage appears usually at the bottom of the subpic, so my problem could be different than Mtz, since in his case, the garbage appears in the top line of the subpic.

[Sir Didymus]

...if you do not change the default display area in SC, I guess it produces good subpics, right?

WRONG! That's the point. The values you put in the SC GUI Edit box don't match always with the values you expect... It's easy to veryfy, by using first SC, and then DVDSubEdit to check the individual SPUs... I have frequently observed values of StartY = 0 and EndX = 720 in some individual SPUs by using the straight default choices proposed by SC. Most sw players do not complain about, but for the standalones it's a nightmare...

In case something else is wrong in DVDSubEdit, that's a possibility. I don't want to comment on this, since it's something in the court of jeanl, but Mtz should use compliant pictures to start with its arguments... Otherwise the bug reporting method is weak...

[r0lZ]

Otherwise the bug reporting method is weak...I agree, but maybe Jeanl could add a check for illegal subpic dimensions or positions. It is always nice when a program can fix the bugs of another app!

[jeanl]

I agree, but maybe Jeanl could add a check for illegal subpic dimensions or positions. It is always nice when a program can fix the bugs of another app!
Yes, I could add an option to fix these problems. I'll put that on my todo list. Mtz sent me some sample of badly formed subpics, so I'll have something to play with.
But Mtz hasn't stated whether the original subpics created by SC were bad, or if it's DVDSE that made them bad. If the originals were OK, then something's not right with DVDSE. Mtz, could you clarify that?
Jeanl

[blutach]

I've actually also seen some badly formed subpics (not created on SC) but edited with DVDSE. They look fine in the DVDSE preview but on the screen look like mush. Haven't pinned down a reason though.

Regards

[GrofLuigi]

Me too (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1065656#post1065656). :(

I thought it was due to too many operations/reloads I did.

Since then, I carefully choose the operations and don't experiment - it hasn't happenned again. :confused:

GL

[Sir Didymus]

I've actually also seen some badly formed subpics (not created on SC) but edited with DVDSE. They look fine in the DVDSE preview but on the screen look like mush...
Regards

That deserves some run with a DVD format verifier... I discovered the (serious) issue of SC by using the Philips and "with some careful navigation" in the sea of the reported errors...

:)

Cheers,
SD

[_Assie_]

Why does DVDSubEdit OCR italic subpics but not put the italic tags (<i> and </i>) in the .srt output file?

[AlanHK]

It's really tedious to go through every subtitle you want to change colors to and then save that edit manually (Ctrl+v).

Any way to make this easier?


Ctrl-A.
Apply last modification to All.

[jeanl]

Why does DVDSubEdit OCR italic subpics but not put the italic tags (<i> and </i>) in the .srt output file?
It can OCR them, but it can't reliably say that they are italics... Or at least, I haven't implemented that. Is that really an important feature?
jeanl

[jeanl]

Me too (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1065656#post1065656). :(

I thought it was due to too many operations/reloads I did.

Since then, I carefully choose the operations and don't experiment - it hasn't happenned again. :confused:

GL
Well if this happens again, be sure to send that to me. DVDSE should NEVER output badly formed subpics. I thought I had fixed all these kinds of bugs, and I need to make sure that's the case. I use DVDSE on every one of my rips, applying various effects, and testing on my standalone, and I've never seen anything fishy, but I'm not saying it can't happen.
Make sure to save the output, the input, and try to remember what you did! :)
Jeanl

[Mtz]

Regarding standalones, I have something to ask.
Some people have standalone Divx players and are trying to play DVD from USB. Of course, they can only select the VOBs with the movie and play directly the VOBs one by one. The movie can be played OK if the USB is 2.0, the subtitles are showing up, but with bad colors. With USB 1.1 the movie is suttering but this is not the problem here.

For example here is the original subpicture:
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6480/originaldse.th.jpg (http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=originaldse.jpg)

On TV the subtitle is displayed like this:
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/1732/sapdse.th.jpg (http://img5.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sapdse.jpg)

So, the outline is ignored. Can be anything done in DSE to always show the color of subtitle (for example: white) and the outline (with or without alias) in black?

enjoy,
Mtz

[r0lZ]

If the player has an hardcoded color table with a black entry, it might be possible to display the outline in black, but you have to know which colour index to use. You may find it by modifying the 16 first subpics, and assign a different colour index to the outline of each subpic. If all are white, then your player uses an all-white color table, and you cannot display the black outline. In that case, you can probably hide it completely (by forcing it to full transparent.)

[Mtz]

But when I'm modifying some color for the subpicure, that information is not saved in the IFO file? I can't select or play an IFO file, just VOB. And when playing a VOB file, the information from IFO will be not read by the player.
Testing the 16 colors from some DVD and found one (something like purple) which will give black outline. Tested on 2 different players (same Mediatek chipset, but different brands).
Using the same color on other DVD and the outline was yellow. In this second DVD i had only 3 colors: white, grey and black. Even I had only these colors, the utline contain some yellow and white. IIRC, on some DVDs the subtitles are green or other colors.

The only acceptable subpictures were with e1 and e2 set to transparent. But with no outline, the subtitles are hard to be readed on white backgrounds.
Maybe is something related in the player firmware with some YUV>RGB conversion.

enjoy,
Mtz

[r0lZ]

It is useless to modify the colour itself, as, as you explained, it is saved in the IFO, which is ignored by the player.
You should just select another colour slot. The selected slot is saved in the VOB. (The colour you see in DVDSE doesn't matter: it might be totally different in the hardcoded CLUT of your player.) If your player can display black outline, you will finally find which colour slot to use, by tries and errors. Remember the combination that works well, and use if for your other DVDs.
(Of course, you might want to change the colour as well and save it in the IFOs, if you use another DVD-Video compliant player that knows the IFOs.)

[Mtz]

That purple outline color which gave me the black outline for one DVD movie wasn't good for another movie. Saving the tested OK clut, loading it in PgcEdit for the other movie and then modify the outline in purple in DSE is too much work. I supposed that can be done in some way only with DSE.
Of course the easy way to watch a DVD movie saved on HDD is to burn it on DVD RW.
And the best thing to have both is to modify the firmware player to always display white subtitle with black outline. But i don't know where is this conversion table and I'm already tired of modifying firmwares.

enjoy,
Mtz

[r0lZ]

But you don't have to use PgcEdit.

The principle: load your DVD in DVDSE. Finds which colour is used for the outline (b, p, e1 or e2.) Change that color to the slot that gives you the black outline in your player. Apply to all and save. That's all.

As I said, the colour you see in DVDSE is extracted from the IFOs. The fact that the purple gave a good result is only an hazard. You should use the slot that contained that purple, but with another DVD, it might be a totally different colour. The important thing is to remember the position of the slot, not its colour.

[Mtz]

r0lZ is always right... ;)
The secret was the clut position... and of course the purple color.
Here is a screenshot for the position and color for outline black color for standalone players with Mediatek chipset (tested on 2 brands: E-Boda and Medion):
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/3811/dseclutposition.th.jpg (http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dseclutposition.jpg)
The blue color I think is not important because is the background and is transparent. But I think also the white p position for subpicture white color is important.
Maybe some users with Mediatek chipset players and USB will test some direct play of VOBs.

Regarding subtitles order displayed on standalone: the order is the same as in DVDSubEdit. For example if French is the first on DSE, also on stadalone will be the first, even if in IFO is the last for example.

Thank you very much for the help.

enjoy,
Mtz

[r0lZ]

IMO, you should create a CLUT in PgcEdit with the right colours used by the player (ie black in the last slot) and assign another colour (for example red) to the slots that are not used by the player. Finally, you should have the 3 colours needed for the standard subpics at the right position: white, black and grey for the antialiasing, (and, perhaps, blue for the transparent background if you can locate it), plus red in all other slots. Save that CLUT. This way, you can change the original CLUT easily with PgcEdit, then go to DVDSE and assign the right colour slots with the right colours. Furthermore, the modified DVD will also play fine on any player that uses the IFOs. What you will see in DVDSE is what you will get on all players.

Also, please post the final CLUT (or an image) here. That might be interesting for the other users of standalone players with Mediatek chipset.

[Mtz]

Hmm... I don't think that we can have a solution to have correct colors for both Disc Play and USB play.
On standalones, only the 1, 2, 11 and 16 position are used and "reading" only that positions. The others are always white.
I made a picture with all "story" regarding changing colors in DVDSubEdit to have correct colors on standalones:

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3718/changingthecolorsforsta.th.jpg (http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=changingthecolorsforsta.jpg)

As you can see, i need to assign at least the 16th position to purple for the black outline. Of course I can use PGCEdit for some changes (creating 2 clt files, one for disc play and one for USB play) but for some Joe is easy with DSE.

enjoy,
Mtz

[r0lZ]

No, again, the colour in the slot doesn't matter for your standalone. It ignores it completely, since it doesn't even read the IFOs, where the colour is stored. It uses an hardcoded colour lookup table (CLUT), where the last colour IS black. So, to display the outline in black, you must assign it the last slot in the CLUT. You do that with DVDSE: it assigns the last slot to the outline, and stores the information in the VOBs.

Of course, a normal player will see that the last slot is used for the outline, and search in the lookup table the corresponding colour. In your example, it will find purple, and display it. That's obviously wrong. So, change that colour to black (with PgcEdit or DVDSE, it doesn't matter), and save the IFOs. Both players will display black.

In other words, you have to change the colour indexes in the VOBs, because your USB player uses an hardcoded CLUT. So, if you change also the CLUT in the IFOs to match the hardcoded CLUT, the same colours will be displayed by all players. The difficulty is to figure out the hardcoded CLUT of your player. We know already that the last slot is black. According to your screenshot, the other slots of interest are slots 1, 2 and 11 (they should be 0, 1 and 10, because the CLUT is zero-indexed but that's not important.) So, it ignores completely the other slots, and you can put any colour that is never used (I suggested red.) But you have to put white in the slot that is used for white (probably slot 1 or 2) and gray in the antialiasing slot (probably slot 11.)

Try it!

[Mtz]

The colors no matter for all slots excepting 1, 2, 11 and 16 and is always white. So is no needing for setting some color (for the rest of 12 slots) because the body is always white if is not in one of that 4 slots.

Again, the ONLY used slots are:
1 > yellow (set it to blue in DSE)
2 > pink (set it to red in DSE)
11 > brown
16 > black (set it to purple in DSE)

The only colors displayed by the standalone are: yellow, pink, brown, black and white. To have these colors you'll need to use only these colors in DSE: blue, red, brown and purple. Other colors set in DSE will be ignored and displayed as white on standalone, no matter in which slot they are.

For example, if you want yellow subtitles, set the p to slot 1 and blue color in DSE.

I made some test DVD with 2 subtitles streams: one with the colors from C. (stream 1) and one with colors from D. (stream 2) from my previous screenshot.
Playing from disc I have the right colors from stream 1 (C.). Stream 2 (D.) was with purple outline.
Playing from USB I have the right colors from stream 2 (D.). Stream 1 (C.) was with white outline.

The subtitles files used in my test are here. (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?o52rg1yntzw) Duration of subtitles: 51 seconds starting from second 3 when is displayed the first subpicture.

enjoy,
Mtz

[r0lZ]

There is something you don't understand. I'll try to explain the theory.

The subpic image is a made of two bitplanes. That means that every pixel in the image can have the value 0, 1, 2 or 3 (arbitrary named b, p, e1 and e2). In other word, it's a 4 colours image, but I don't like this terminology, as the colours are not defined yet. They are abstract concepts. It's why they have been named b, p, e1 and e2, instead of, for example, red, white, grey and black. Of course, there is a mechanism to assign them a real colour, and that mechanism is rather complex.

In the VOB is stored an "colour scheme", that assigns an index (ranging from 0 to 15) to each of these values. For example, the pixel "b" of value 0 might be assigned to the index 0, the pixed p (value 1) to index 2, e1 (value 2) to index 10 and e2 (value 3) to index 15. Again, those indexes are not real colours: they are just the number of the "slot" they occupy in the Colour Lookup Table. Those indexes are what you can change in DVDSE, and save back in the VOBs. Note that even if you see a colour in each slot in the GUI of DVDSE, when you click on a "slot", you assign its NUMBER (and NOT its colour) to the corresponding b, p, e1 or e2 pixel type. So, if you click the "e2" colour type in the main window of DVDSE, and then the last box in the little window, you assign the index 15 to the e2 colour type. (Similarly, the VOB contains also the transparency values for each of the 4 pixels values b, p, e1 and e2, but that's not the point.)

There is NO real colour stored in the VOB file, and it's the cause of the problem with your player. (BTW, I have never understood why the DVD-Video specs are made this way. I don't understand why the colour is saved in the IFOs, and the colour indexes and the transparency values in the VOBs. It would have been much more simple and efficient to store everything in the VOBs. Anyway, we have to live with the specs!)

Finally, the real colour is stored in the Colour Lookup Table (CLUT), in the PGC. It is made of 16 colours, but only 4 of them are really used for a specific subpic at a time (but it is possible to change the indexes for each subpic, to display them in different colours, for example to distinguish the different subtitles for hearing impairs.) So, in my example, the e2 pixel type is assigned to the slot 15. If e2 is used for the outline, you want to display it in black. Therefore, you have to assign black in slot 15 of the CLUT in the IFOs. You can do that with PgcEdit, and also with DVDSE by Shift-clicking the corresponding slot. (AFAIK, it's the only action in DVDSE that requires to modify the IFOs. All other things you can do in DVDSE is stored in the VOBs only.)

In short, the process of assigning a colour to a specific pixel in the subpic image is rather complex: the player reads the image, and determines the pixel value. If it's 3 (e2), then it looks in the VOB for the index assigned to the e2 pixel type. In my example, it's 15. It reads therefore the real colour value to display on screen in slot 15 of the CLUT in the IFO.

Of course, if the player doesn't read the IFOs, it cannot do correctly the last step of that process. Instead of using the right CLUT, it uses an hardcoded CLUT stored in its ROM. Of course, the colour it will assign to the different pixel types will probably be wrong, unless the indexes have been created specifically for that hardcoded CLUT. It's the problem of your USB players.

If the picture of post 920 is correct, you can indifferently assign slot 2-9 or 11-14 to the white part of the subpic, and slot 15 to the outline. Unfortunately, there is no grey for the antialiasing, so you will have to select either a white index, or 15 for black. You have successfully created a good subpic with black outline. Fine. By doing so, you have modified the indexes in the VOBs. Therefore they point to other slots in the CLUT. That's OK for your USB player, but not for the standard players, because the colour pointed to by the index is different, since it is in a different slot. To fix this problem, you can modify the CLUT in the IFO, and clone the hardcoded CLUT of your player, so that the same index will display the same colour. That will certainly work.

In other words, the colours displayed in your picture in the "original DVD colors A" are NOT right any more, since the outline is now assigned to index 15, which is dark purple in the IFO CLUT. You must therefore change that colour to black in the IFOs to display the modified VOB file correctly on a standard DVD-Video compliant player, that reads the IFOs. (And similarly for the other colours.) The simplest way to accomplish this is simply to export the "Mediatek colors B" CLUT with PgcEdit, and import it in all PGCs that need to be modified.

I hope you understand now that you are wrong when you say "The only colors displayed by the standalone are: yellow, pink, brown, black and white. To have these colors you'll need to use only these colors in DSE: blue, red, brown and purple." Blue, red, brown and purple are displayed by DVDSE because it shows you the IFO CLUT. Those colours will be different if you load another DVD! If you assign the right colours in the IFOs, you can select the right colours in DVDSE, to easily change the indexes in the VOBs. What you see is what you get.

Try it! Change the CLUT in the IFOs with PgcEdit to the Mediatek CLUT, and save. Then, Open the VOBs with DVDSE. See the changes! Now, you can select the right colour slots easily to assign them to the b, p, e1 and e2 pixel types, apply to all and save the VOBs. And you will have a DVD that can be played in your USB players and in any standard player. Of course, you must change the TWO things accordingly: the indexes with DVDSE, and the CLUT with PgcEdit (or DVDSE by shift-clicking the slots.)


Additional note:
The menu button highlights can use a total of 4 different colour schemes: the "default scheme" that is saved in the VOB, exactly like for a standard subtitle, plus 3 additional extended schemes (that you can edit in PgcEdit.) Those additional schemes are stored in the nav packs of the VOBs, with the menu buttons information (but the default scheme is saved in the subpic stream itself.)
This is necessary as the highlights must change when a button is selected and when it is activated. This is another reason for the 16 colors in the CLUT: 4 colours per scheme x 4 schemes gives a total of 16 possible colours.
Anyway, if your USB player doesn't read the IFOs, it is certainly unable to handle a menu. :(

[blutach]

Don't forget about transparency <-> opacity!!! :D :D

Regards

[Mtz]

r0lZ, thank you for the explanation. Before your last post, I used my both neurons from my brain to figure how to make a DVD to work with correct subtitles from disc play and usb play and to simplify it, just talk about outline: to have black outline in USB play I must to assign the slot number 16 and to dark purple. Any other slot or color will give the wrong outline color. Assigning a slot which is not black will distroy the outline color for disc play.
In USB play, the player will read the colors only from slots 1, 2, 11 and 16. Any other color or slot will give white.
Saving the CLUTs from PGCEdit will not help me in any way, because even if I use the Mediatek CLUT, I need to assign the outline for some position slot ant its color and if this is not 16 and purple, in USB play will be wrong.

I don't have a standard DVD player, just DVD/DivX players (more than 10 players) with or without USB.
So, I made another test on a standalone without USB and burned 2 identical files with different extensions to be sure I can see at least one file and play it:
VTS_01_1.VOB
VTS_01_1.MPG
Both files played with subtitles.
Maybe your DVD can play in this way and you can test it.

The only chance to have at least the right color for both USB and Disc play is to modify the firmware at least to make that purple > black.

How is working the player in USB play: find the subpicture in the video file > search the assigned slot > display the color from the assigned slot. If the assigned slot is not 1, 2, 11, or 16 it will display white color. Tested on 3 different brand players, all with Mediatek chipset, with or without USB.

Edit:
DVD USB play is possible without suttering only with players with USB 2.0. For example: Philips DVP 3260, DVP 5990, DVP 5996K (the latest one have 5.1 analog output and DTS decoding).

enjoy,
Mtz

PS: blutach, transpareny is working as expected, so no problems.

[r0lZ]

If the player displays black when you select the last slot (slot 15, not 16 BTW), then that slot is BLACK in its hardcoded CLUT, not purple!
If you see it purple in DVDSE, it's just because DVDSE displays that colour, because it ignores that you will use your USB player to display the subpics, and anyway it cannot guess what's the colour in the ROM of your player. That's all. That purple is only a coincidence! Load another DVD in DVDSE, and you will see that slot #15 is NOT purple any more. But you still have to select slot #15 to display the correct outline colour with your USB player, no matter what colour it is.

So, to display the correct black outline in your USB player, you must select the last slot. That's right. But its colour in DVDSE is totally irrelevant, since the colour is stored in the IFOs ONLY, and your player ignores them totally! For the same reason, you can freely change the colours of the CLUT in the IFOs without affecting the way your player will see the VOB files, since, again, it ignores the IFOs. If it ignores them, it ignores also what changes you have made!

Since a standard player does NOT ignore the IFOs, it will display the colour in slot 15 of the IFO. If it is purple, it will display a purple outline. If it is black, it will display a black outline. It's why there is a CLUT in the IFOs. So, changing the colour of the last slot in the IFO allows the standard players to display the correct outline colour and DOES NOT AFFECT the way your USB player will display the outline.

Here is a graph to illustrate this:

USB Player:

e2 pixel ->
mapped to slot 15 ->
it displays the colour #15 in its hardcoded CLUT: black (and it ignores completely the IFO CLUT, and the fact that it could contain black, purple or whatever.)

Standard player:

e2 pixel ->
mapped to slot 15 ->
it displays whatever colour is in slot #15 in the IFO CLUT: purple or black, it depends ONLY of the content of the IFO.


It's simple, no?

[Mtz]

In theory is simple, yes... ;)
But as I told you before, if the color is not purple, the player will not display black. In some prevoius post I wrote that the player make some conversion for colors.
In another post I uploaded 2 sup files created with SubtitleCreator. One with correct colors for DVD play and one for USB play. The colors are in the sup files. When I opened the sups again in SubtitleCreator, it show me that colors I set. The colors are in the VOB files (from SUPs) and the player read them if are in 0, 1, 10 and 15 (1,2,11,16) and make the color conversion as is showed in A. > B.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3718/changingthecolorsforsta.jpg

In D. is the way I must to assign the colors showed in A. So C. become D. I used brown for antialias because I think is the best choice.

Did you tried to burn a vob or mpg file (without IFO) to a DVD and test it in the player?

enjoy,
Mtz

[r0lZ]

The colors are in the sup files.
That's NOT true. The colours are NEVER stored in the sup files or in the VOBs. Only the indexes in the CLUTs. And BTW, it is easy to verify that. Load one of your .sup file in DVDSE. It asks you which IFO to use. If you cancel that dialog, it uses its "automatic CLUT", and it assigns black to the outline (because it is smart enough to recognize the outline, and assign it the right colour.) In that mode, you cannot change the colour indexes, nor the colours of the IFO CLUT. (To test, be sure to put your .sup file in a folder WITHOUT IFOs, or DVDSE may use the IFO anyway; I'm not sure.)

Of course, if you select an IFO, it uses the colours of the CLUT of the FIRST PGC (because it has no way to know what PGC is associated with the .sup file). It's not the hardcoded CLUT of your player, since that CLUT is in ROM, and you cannot load it in DVDSE.

I've just made that test with your .sup examples. With no IFO loaded, DVDSE displays the correct colours (because it is smart!) If I select an IFO, it uses the colours of the IFOs, and since I don't have your IFOs, the colors are totally dirrerent than in your screenshot, and of course, the subpic colours are totally wrong. In my case, the outline is light blue, not purple or black!


Instead of repeating that the colours matter, please try what I have explained at the end of my long post above. You will see that if you clone the hardcoded CLUT of your USB player in the IFO, you will have the same display on ALL players! (Unless, of course, you try another USB player, with a different hardcoded CLUT.)

[Mtz]

OK, tested again and figured how to do it only with DVDSubEdit:

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/1820/dsedvdusb.jpg

Many thanks to r0lZ for patience and explanations.

enjoy,
Mtz

[r0lZ]

That's what I have tried to explain since the beginning: slot 15 must be black.

I'm glad I have finally been able to convince you! :)

[Mtz]

I'm glad I have finally been able to convince you! :)
I think it could be easier for you to convince Jessica Alba, for example... :devil:

And you can see, I used 0-15 instead of 1-16 as you suggested.

Did you tested direct play of VOB (MPG) from DVD without IFO with your standalone?

enjoy,
Mtz

[r0lZ]

No, I haven't tested, because my standalone players do not have USB ports. Maybe it is possible to burn a data DVD with only a single VOB, and play it like a DivX movie, but I don't think my old KISS DivX player will accept that. As far as I know, it supports only AVI files (or regular DVD-Video files with the IFOs.)

BTW, a good VOB-only player should use a method similar to DVDSE's "automatic CLUT" to detect which pixel type is assigned to the white part of the subpic, which one to the outline, and which one to the optional antialiasing, and assign them a correct, dynamically built CLUT. Jeanl has programmed that feature, and the code is open source! That should not be difficult to implement in the Mediatek chipsets. With that feature, you will always see correct subpics colours, regardless of the indexes in the VOBs. But unfortunately, the standalone players are usually much more primitive than the software tools and players.

[Mtz]

Even if you don't have an USB port, I was curious how is displaying your standalone the subtitles from a VOB burned as data on DVD.

Regarding players, I know they are primitive, but now the next step are HD players like the Media Centers. Developing software for DVD/Divx player is made now only to make it as cheaper as possible. Quality is not important anymore. The Philips DVP 3260 is very cheap and have USB 2.0. Also a very nice custom firmware created by vb6rocod, a romanian coder.

enjoy,
Mtz

[r0lZ]

Thanks for the info. I may buy a new layer soon. I just need some additional donations for PgcEdit! ;)

[Mtz]

In my country the 3260 is about 35 euro. I hope you'll receive at least 2 donations for this, but if I was you, I'll try to buy the 5996K for 5.1 analog output and DTS decoding. If these 2 things are not important for you, you can go to 3260. I like to donate, but I can't use Paypal.

enjoy,
Mtz

[_Assie_]

It can OCR them, but it can't reliably say that they are italics... Or at least, I haven't implemented that. Is that really an important feature?
jeanl

Well, now i have to go through all the subpics manually to see if a subpic is italic and change that in de .srt file. So it would save time to get the .srt file in order.

[ptrachte]

I'm trying to use the playback function on DVDSubedit 1.51 in order to help me retime subtitles starting around the middle of a video. The problem is - I don't see anything that would start the video playback! There don't seem to be any buttons or menu selections that would do it. I'd greatly appreciate it if someone could let me know how that function is triggered.

thanks

I should add, I did find the description of video playback in 1.8 of the User Manual, but I don't see the two arrow buttons it describes anywhere in the program window.

Here's a screencap:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30385306@N04/3384480834/

[jeanl]

I'm trying to use the playback function on DVDSubedit 1.51 in order to help me retime subtitles starting around the middle of a video. The problem is - I don't see anything that would start the video playback! There don't seem to be any buttons or menu selections that would do it. I'd greatly appreciate it if someone could let me know how that function is triggered.

thanks
Assuming you're using version 1.5, or better yet, 1.501 (newly available from the web site, with a bug fix), the playback buttons are at the bottom of the window, in the middle. They're only active when a VOB file is loaded (as opposed to a sup).
It's possible that your screen resolution is so small that you don't see the bottom of the window?
jeanl

[ericf]

A question about a problem I just had.
I made subs for a movie where there is text on a computer.
I used the font Game Power.
I have two subtitle tracks, 1 in English and 1 in Spanish. I make special color changes to these subtitles. All of them have the same color combination (adding the right color by using SHIFT+Click.
When I look at the subs on the DVD the colors are different for the two languages. And the first two subtitles show one color combination while the next two show a second color combination. The two subtitle tracks don't show the same combination of colors.

Note that I have adjusted the CLUT colors so that all of them show exactly the same colors.

Any idea why this might happen?
I'm using 105.

A short comment: Is it possible to make a command for copying colors from one subtitle and then paste them into the next?
There's quite a lot of work when you have 30 or so subtitles to change color for and you have to make button clicks several times for each one.

Thanks.
ericf

[jeanl]

So you're saying that all the CLUTS in the PGCs that reference the subs are identical, yet the player shows different colors? Are you sure the various parts in all the subtitles use the same pixel types? For example, are you sure the body of the subtitles always uses the same pixel type (say p for example)? Does DVDSubEdit show the colors the way you want them?
Jeanl

[jeanl]

A short comment: Is it possible to make a command for copying colors from one subtitle and then paste them into the next?
There's quite a lot of work when you have 30 or so subtitles to change color for and you have to make button clicks several times for each one.

Thanks.
ericf
mmm, when you say "color", this is a bit misleading. The colors are coded in the CLUT which is in the PGC. So you never need to copy that from a subtitle to the next, all use the same CLUT if they're in the same VCID.
What you might need to do is to copy the color assignment (i.e., the mapping from p,b,e1,e2 pixel types to 4 colors from the CLUT) from one sub to the next (because this color mapping can change from sub to sub)...
I guesss that could be done...
Jeanl

[ericf]

So you're saying that all the CLUTS in the PGCs that reference the subs are identical, yet the player shows different colors? Are you sure the various parts in all the subtitles use the same pixel types? For example, are you sure the body of the subtitles always uses the same pixel type (say p for example)? Does DVDSubEdit show the colors the way you want them?
Jeanl


The color in DVDSubEdit shows correctly. The colors on the DVD does not. The color (the colors of the specific subs are variations that are not in the CLUT) looks the same on all 4 color squares (b, p, e1 and e2). b, p and e2 have the background color and e1 has the main color.

ericf

[ericf]

mmm, when you say "color", this is a bit misleading. The colors are coded in the CLUT which is in the PGC. So you never need to copy that from a subtitle to the next, all use the same CLUT if they're in the same VCID.
What you might need to do is to copy the color assignment (i.e., the mapping from p,b,e1,e2 pixel types to 4 colors from the CLUT) from one sub to the next (because this color mapping can change from sub to sub)...
I guesss that could be done...
Jeanl

It would be very nice to have this. There is so much clicking at times that I sometimes make mistakes.
Thanks.
ericf

[*ale*]

Hello,
i use DVDSubEdit when i need to add some buttons or simply modify their position in a dvd menu.
This time i have a problem that i'm not able to solve.

This is the original cell of the subtitle menu:
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/3666/subsorig.jpg

I want to replace it with this modified picture:
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/8539/subsmod.jpg

As you can see, i changed the position of two buttons so now i need to change also the subpic bmp

The problem is that when i re-import the modified subpic bmp in DVDSubEdit all the highlights are gone (I mean that when i go over the button with the mouse i can't see the highlight).

I'm using latest version on Windows Vista 64, but tried also with WinXp SP3

This is the menu (exported with dvdremake), if someone wants to try :

[blutach]

@ale - do not crosspost either!

Read the rules please

Regards

[oso2k6]

Hello, this program is great, thank you for creating it, i use it mainly for replacing menu's subpictures, backgrounds and to change subpics colours. I would like to know, is it possible to implement retiming of single .sup files? Bye.

[jeanl]

Hello, this program is great, thank you for creating it, i use it mainly for replacing menu's subpictures, backgrounds and to change subpics colours. I would like to know, is it possible to implement retiming of single .sup files? Bye.

Not at this point. The program only retimes VOB files. Retiming .sup files should be a lot easier, but what would you use that for?
Jeanl

[jeanl]

It would be very nice to have this. There is so much clicking at times that I sometimes make mistakes.
Thanks.
ericf
I'll add that to my long todo list... :)
Jeanl

[jeanl]

It would be very nice to have this. There is so much clicking at times that I sometimes make mistakes.
Thanks.
ericf

Wait a minute, this is already implemented! If you change the colors of the pixels in a subpic (by clicking the colors in the clut display - NOT by shift-clicking which changes the color of the CLUT itself), you can apply the same modification to any other subpic by pressing Ctrl-V (shortcut for paste).
Isn't that what you want?
Jeanl

[oso2k6]

Not at this point. The program only retimes VOB files. Retiming .sup files should be a lot easier, but what would you use that for?
JeanlHi, well for retiming you would save to ocr, retime and create the subs again, that way you don't lose the font type of the original sub, also would save a lot of time when converting pal dvds to ntsc to adjust subs or vice-versa.
If i'm not wrong, you won't have retiming limitations if you work directly with the sup file as you have when you retime the vobs. There is no other program that can do that correctly, well subtitle creator can, but it will output a totally messed up sup file, adding at the bottom of the subs something that look like the upper part of the next subs. Well if it is not time consuming or difficult to implement, please al least consider it :D Bye.

[jeanl]

Hi, well for retiming you would save to ocr, retime and create the subs again, that way you don't lose the font type of the original sub, also would save a lot of time when converting pal dvds to ntsc to adjust subs or vice-versa.
If i'm not wrong, you won't have retiming limitations if you work directly with the sup file as you have when you retime the vobs. There is no other program that can do that correctly, well subtitle creator can, but it will output a totally messed up sup file, adding at the bottom of the subs something that look like the upper part of the next subs. Well if it is not time consuming or difficult to implement, please al least consider it :D Bye.
OK, I'll put it in the todo, but who know when I'll get a chance to do it ... :)
Jeanl

[jeanl]

Hello,
i use DVDSubEdit when i need to add some buttons or simply modify their position in a dvd menu.
This time i have a problem that i'm not able to solve.

This is the original cell of the subtitle menu:
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/3666/subsorig.jpg

I want to replace it with this modified picture:
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/8539/subsmod.jpg

As you can see, i changed the position of two buttons so now i need to change also the subpic bmp

The problem is that when i re-import the modified subpic bmp in DVDSubEdit all the highlights are gone (I mean that when i go over the button with the mouse i can't see the highlight).

I'm using latest version on Windows Vista 64, but tried also with WinXp SP3

This is the menu (exported with dvdremake), if someone wants to try :
You say you moved the positions of the two buttons: I can see that you moved the background, but did you move the rectangle that defines the position of each button? Your new buttons are in the middle, in a position kind of in between where the buttons were before. You need to adjust the two rectangles for the button numbers that will correspond to these two buttons, so they include the background. Then, when you move the highlights with DVDSubEdit, they will be highlighted correctly.
You can adjust the rectangles with PGCEdit.
Remember that highlights only show within the rectangle that correspond to the button currently selected. If the highlight is in the middle, but the rectangle is in the upper left corner, you won't see any highlights.
Jeanl

[*ale*]

ok, i think that thing with the position of the buttons turn aside of the problem... so forget about it
there's a simple test you can do to see what i mean: take one of the "scene selections" menu pages and edit the subpic bmp (also with paint)... simply draw something where you are sure there's already the "rectangle"
save all modifications and play the dvd: can you see the highlights you modified?

[r0lZ]

Short answer: no.

But it's not so simple.

The long answer depends of the color scheme that is stored in the VOB (not the 3 color schemes that you can edit with PgcEdit, but the "default" color scheme that you can modify only with DVDSubEdit.) It is usually full transparent, and therefore everything that is not included in the currently highlighted rectangle cannot be seen.

But the menu can be authored in totally different ways, for example so that the buttons that are NOT active are covered or obscured by the subpic. When it's the case, you can see one or several of the 4 colors of the subpic on the whole screen EXCEPT in the currently selected button rectangle. That method is rarely used, but I've found 2 examples so far: the second edition of Polanski's The Fearless Vampire Killers, and the Abenobashi anime.

[jeanl]

Short answer: no.

But it's not so simple.

The long answer depends of the color scheme that is stored in the VOB (not the 3 color schemes that you can edit with PgcEdit, but the "default" color scheme that you can modify only with DVDSubEdit.) It is usually full transparent, and therefore everything that is not included in the currently highlighted rectangle cannot be seen.

This is 100% correct, but note that DVDSubEdit has a little tick mark button named "ignore transparency" that allows you to see highlights that are transparent by default (which is typical for buttons).


But the menu can be authored in totally different ways, for example so that the buttons that are NOT active are covered or obscured by the subpic. When it's the case, you can see one or several of the 4 colors of the subpic on the whole screen EXCEPT in the currently selected button rectangle. That method is rarely used, but I've found 2 examples so far: the second edition of Polanski's The Fearless Vampire Killers, and the Abenobashi anime.
and, IIRC, "dog eats man" "ca s'est passe pres de chez vous" where the highlights hide small rectangles that have a small animation. Only the selected button shows the animation because the highlights are turned to transparent when selected.
Jeanl

[jeanl]

ok, i think that thing with the position of the buttons turn aside of the problem... so forget about it
there's a simple test you can do to see what i mean: take one of the "scene selections" menu pages and edit the subpic bmp (also with paint)... simply draw something where you are sure there's already the "rectangle"
save all modifications and play the dvd: can you see the highlights you modified?
OK, I'm not sure how familiar you are with menu highlights, but I have a couple questions:
1) Did you see the highlights before you used paint? Normally, (i.e., in a normal menu) you wouldn't unless you clicked the "ignore transparency" tick mark, because highlights are normally transparent by default (which they are in your menu).
2) After the edit, it's the same thing: you won't see the highlights unless you click that tick mark.

If you did that, and highlights showed before but not after, then there's a bug which I need to fix.

NOTE: There are a couple shortcuts to "select" a button and show its highlight the way a player would, but I don't remember them by heart, and I'm afraid I haven't put them in the user manual yet (big oversight :( ). They're very useful to see what happens when you select a button (i.e., transparency usually changes, colors can also change etc).
Jeanl

[*ale*]

OK, I'm not sure how familiar you are with menu highlights, but I have a couple questions:
1) Did you see the highlights before you used paint? Normally, (i.e., in a normal menu) you wouldn't unless you clicked the "ignore transparency" tick mark, because highlights are normally transparent by default (which they are in your menu).
2) After the edit, it's the same thing: you won't see the highlights unless you click that tick mark.

If you did that, and highlights showed before but not after, then there's a bug which I need to fix.

NOTE: There are a couple shortcuts to "select" a button and show its highlight the way a player would, but I don't remember them by heart, and I'm afraid I haven't put them in the user manual yet (big oversight :( ). They're very useful to see what happens when you select a button (i.e., transparency usually changes, colors can also change etc).
Jeanl

If you looked at the screens i sent to you you already know the answer... anyway, no the "ignore transparency" check box is not selected; before the edit i can see the first highlight (because it's the default selection i suppose) but after the edit i can't see neither the first and also all the other highlights in the page will not work anymore

[blutach]

The shortcuts are ctrl-q from memory, Jean. It's a toggle.

Regards

[Mtz]

For editing the buttons from menu I'm using only version 1.39 of DVDSubEdit. ;) Try it! For all other things I'm using the latest version.

enjoy,
Mtz

[jeanl]

For editing the buttons from menu I'm using only version 1.39 of DVDSubEdit. ;) Try it! For all other things I'm using the latest version.

enjoy,
Mtz

Is there a good reason for that? Things should work just fine in the latest version... Is something broken?
I tried the modification described by *ale* and it worked for me... so I'm not sure where things diverge here...
Jeanl

[jeanl]

The shortcuts are ctrl-q from memory, Jean. It's a toggle.

Regards
Yes, thanks! I can't believe it's not in the manual!
Ctrl-Q toggles between selected, and activated. Ctrl-N goes to the next button, Ctrl-P goes to the previous button, and Ctrl-1 through 9 selects button 1 through 9...
This should definitely be in the manual, and probably on the GUI as well! :(
jeanl

[blutach]

A little feature request, SVP...

I hate subbies for the hearing impaired (my hearing is not quite that bad) and religiously remove these.

The backspace key works fine in the OCR box, but not the Delete key for deleting in front of the cursor (where sometimes there are "leftovers").

I don't suppose it is possible to program this in Jean?

Regards

[Mtz]

Is there a good reason for that? Things should work just fine in the latest version... Is something broken?
I tried the modification described by *ale* and it worked for me... so I'm not sure where things diverge here...
Jeanl
I don't think you broken anything, but my friends and me, we are using the 1.399 version.

On left is 1.501 and on right is 1.399 version of DSE:
http://thumbnails16.imagebam.com/3716/ebeabb37154025.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/ebeabb37154025)

The menu is not edited.
On left is 1.501 and on right is 1.399 version of DSE:
http://thumbnails14.imagebam.com/3716/243d0e37154027.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/243d0e37154027) http://thumbnails10.imagebam.com/3716/c144f537154028.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/c144f537154028)


Another menu, but edited with 1.399 because instead of None, another subtitle language is added.
Before:
http://thumbnails7.imagebam.com/3716/42456637154029.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/42456637154029)
After:
http://thumbnails17.imagebam.com/3716/e028ea37154031.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/e028ea37154031)

enjoy,
Mtz

[jeanl]

A little feature request, SVP...

I hate subbies for the hearing impaired (my hearing is not quite that bad) and religiously remove these.

The backspace key works fine in the OCR box, but not the Delete key for deleting in front of the cursor (where sometimes there are "leftovers").

I don't suppose it is possible to program this in Jean?

Regards
I should be doable, but I remember looking into it so perhaps there's a catch. I'll add that.
Jeanl

[blutach]

MB

Regards

[alfixdvd]

When I check show only forced subtitles of a stream, and save they as a sup file, they are delayed with regard to the original stream.

It has happened to me with different movies, not all, but the last one has been Punisher 2 War Zone.

I solve it loading them in SubtitleCreator and correcting it.

Why DvdSubedit does this ?

[jeanl]

ok, i think that thing with the position of the buttons turn aside of the problem... so forget about it
there's a simple test you can do to see what i mean: take one of the "scene selections" menu pages and edit the subpic bmp (also with paint)... simply draw something where you are sure there's already the "rectangle"
save all modifications and play the dvd: can you see the highlights you modified?
OK, with your help I figured out what was happening. The default AutoCLUT colors (which are used during import/export of bitmaps if the current CLUT has two identical colors), had two identical colors!!!! Very silly since that's what I was trying to avoid.
I have corrected the problem, the next version will have more suitable default auto-clut colors.
jeanl

[jeanl]

When I check show only forced subtitles of a stream, and save they as a sup file, they are delayed with regard to the original stream.

It has happened to me with different movies, not all, but the last one has been Punisher 2 War Zone.

I solve it loading them in SubtitleCreator and correcting it.

Why DvdSubedit does this ?

Are you saying that you don't get the same delay if you check "show only forced" or if you don't?
I'll run some tests...
Jeanl

[alfixdvd]

Are you saying that you don't get the same delay if you check "show only forced" or if you don't?
I'll run some tests...
Jeanl

Yes, on screen I see the same delay, but when I save subtitles to sup file and open with DvdSubedit, they don't show the same delay or timing that show in original stream.

[jeanl]

Yes, on screen I see the same delay, but when I save subtitles to sup file and open with DvdSubedit, they don't show the same delay or timing that show in original stream.

OK I'm going to need some help from you, because I tried it, and on the DVD that I tried on, I didn't get any difference (same PTS value in both cases). It looks like I need to use your DVD. Can you cut a bit of the vob file, with maybe 10 subpics (you can compress with DVDSHrink to make that as small as possible), and send that to me? You can send that to jeanldvd at free dot fr or use http://www.mediafire.com/ if it's more than about 6MB (mediafire is great for this kind of purpose, no wait etc)...
But first, make sure you can make the problem happen with the small file so I have a chance to reproduce the bug and fix it.

THanks.
Jeanl

[alfixdvd]

OK I'm going to need some help from you, because I tried it, and on the DVD that I tried on, I didn't get any difference (same PTS value in both cases). It looks like I need to use your DVD. Can you cut a bit of the vob file, with maybe 10 subpics (you can compress with DVDSHrink to make that as small as possible), and send that to me? You can send that to jeanldvd at free dot fr or use http://www.mediafire.com/ if it's more than about 6MB (mediafire is great for this kind of purpose, no wait etc)...
But first, make sure you can make the problem happen with the small file so I have a chance to reproduce the bug and fix it.

THanks.
Jeanl

I uploaded sub.rar (10MB) at mediafire: http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=020790ff2d2ea227a0f2f20c509059d9e04e75f6e8ebb871

[jeanl]

I uploaded sub.rar (10MB) at mediafire: http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=020790ff2d2ea227a0f2f20c509059d9e04e75f6e8ebb871

Thanks for that. Here's what I get:
- When I save all the subpics from stream 0x21 (the one that has the forced supbic), the forced supbic, which is number 0 in that stream, is saved with a PTS of 496800
- When I save only the forced subpic, it is saved with the same PTS of 496800.

So the problem isn't whether you save only the forced subpics, or all subpics in a given stream. This does not affect the PTS any given subpic is given.

Now, maybe you're wondering why that saved PTS does not match the PTS shown if you open the VOB file. Indeed, in the original VOB file, the PTS or that forced subpic is 112482000, very different from the PTS shown in the sup file.

This is "normal". In the sup file, the PTS is measured relative to the PTS of the first video frame in the stream. So if the PTS of the first video frame isn't 0, then the PTS in the vob file won't match the PTS in the sup file.
I believe measuring PTS relative to the PTS of the first frame is standard, because this means the PTS shows you the exact time at which the subpic will be played, relative to the start of the video, regardless of the (somewhat arbitrary) PTS given to the first frame.

Why is that a problem by the way?
Jeanl

[alfixdvd]

This is "normal". In the sup file, the PTS is measured relative to the PTS of the first video frame in the stream. So if the PTS of the first video frame isn't 0, then the PTS in the vob file won't match the PTS in the sup file.
I believe measuring PTS relative to the PTS of the first frame is standard, because this means the PTS shows you the exact time at which the subpic will be played, relative to the start of the video, regardless of the (somewhat arbitrary) PTS given to the first frame.

Why is that a problem by the way?
Jeanl

I want to extract only the forced subtitles of a stream, in order to re-author the movie with the forced subs only.

If the PTS it's not the same as VOB it does not serve me as anything.

The sub must to appear at PTS:11248000 (00:20:49,799) not at PTS:496800 (00:00:05,519)

[jeanl]

I want to extract only the forced subtitles of a stream, in order to re-author the movie with the forced subs only.

If the PTS it's not the same as VOB it does not serve me as anything.

The sub must to appear at PTS:11248000 (00:20:49,799) not at PTS:496800 (00:00:05,519)
I understand... I could add an option to save with the original unmodified PTS, in the preference.
Also, would it help to be able to remove (make transparent) all subpics that are not forced? (select all forced subpics, "invert the select" - a feature not currently available - then apply hide subpic to all)?
Jeanl

[r0lZ]

(select all forced subpics, "invert the select" - a feature not currently available - then apply hide subpic to all)?An Invert Selected would be useful anyway! Not only for the forced subs, but for everything. :)

[jeanl]

An Invert Selected would be useful anyway! Not only for the forced subs, but for everything. :)
yes, I agree! It's on my todo list. The biggest problem at this point is finding space on the UI!!!!! :)
Jeanl

[alfixdvd]

I understand... I could add an option to save with the original unmodified PTS, in the preference.


Brilliant this possibility.


Also, would it help to be able to remove (make transparent) all subpics that are not forced? (select all forced subpics, "invert the select" - a feature not currently available - then apply hide subpic to all)?
Jeanl

More than Brilliant this possibility.

First option is good for me.

Second option give more possibilities

I hope that soon they should be a reality

Thank you very much

[jeanl]

I've added an option in the preferences for saving sup files with the original PTS (unselect "fix PTS discontinuities in sup files"), and a warning when you're editing a bitmap with an external tool, and the automatic CLUT has two or more identical colors. I also added an option to invert the current selection.

This is a temporary version if you want to check that the changes works OK.

http://download.videohelp.com/DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEdit1.5022.zip

Jeanl

[alfixdvd]

I've added an option in the preferences for saving sup files with the original PTS (unselect "fix PTS discontinuities in sup files").


It works. :)


I also added an option to invert the current selection.


It works. :)


With this version and the previous ones, when I save the selected subtitles as sup, the sup file generated has the attribute of read only.

If I open it with Dvsubedit it does not show me the stream, I have to remove this attribute, so that DvdSubedit shows it on having opened it.

[jeanl]

With this version and the previous ones, when I save the selected subtitles as sup, the sup file generated has the attribute of read only.

If I open it with Dvsubedit it does not show me the stream, I have to remove this attribute, so that DvdSubedit shows it on having opened it.
Yes, this has happened to me on occasions! I'll look into it.
Jeanl

[kotyczka]

What an interesting discussion!

There is a really strange effect which I do not understand.
I'm using DVDSubEdit 1.501, the latest official release.

I open some .sup file, no corresponding .ifo. Next I choose
"16:9 Widescreen" in the combobox. Now the first subpic is
shown in widescreen mode.
I edit the subpic (Ctrl-Shift-E), but in the external graphic
editor I do _nothing_, just close it. Now the "modified"
bitmap is reimported, the subtitle is marked as "modified".
However the subpic _seems_ to have moved some few pixels.
I can see this when I reload the original SPU from file
(Ctrl-Z). When typing Ctrl-Z the subpic moves sligtly a few
pixels.
I get the same strange effect if I choose "4:3" instead of
"16:9 Widescreen" in the beginning. However, if I do not choose
any screen mode after loading the .sup file - i.e. the combobox
is empty, then I do not see any difference between the modified
and the original subpic.
So I guess, that the content of the subpic has not moved, it must
be some kind of "display problem". But it is annoying anyway.

What might be the reason? I guess stepping though the source code
will not help _me_ fnding the reason.

To make the problem reproducible, I uploaded a small (57k) .sup file:
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=752bb9d5bc1236d0896b8bcfb63f39f8e04e75f6e8ebb871

[kotyczka]

Not at this point. The program only retimes VOB files. Retiming .sup files should be a lot easier, but what would you use that for?
Jeanl

Retiming a single .sup file would be a great feature.
It is one of the few things I'm missing in DVDSubEdit.
And I guess it should be much easier to implement
than retiming a .vob.
What so I need it for? Sometimes I wish to add a new
subtitle stream in another language. So I demux the
original .vob's, duplicate one .sup file, change the
text subpic by subpic and remux the whole thing in the
end. I open the audio files in some audio editor and
see very exactly, how much the subpics should be retimed.
It would be really helpful to do the retiming in the .sup
file before remuxing.
And if the translated text is larger than the original,
I have to worry that the compressed modified subpic is
too large to fit into the .vob. That should not be the
case for .sup.

[jeanl]

What an interesting discussion!

There is a really strange effect which I do not understand.
I'm using DVDSubEdit 1.501, the latest official release.

I open some .sup file, no corresponding .ifo. Next I choose
"16:9 Widescreen" in the combobox. Now the first subpic is
shown in widescreen mode.
I edit the subpic (Ctrl-Shift-E), but in the external graphic
editor I do _nothing_, just close it. Now the "modified"
bitmap is reimported, the subtitle is marked as "modified".
However the subpic _seems_ to have moved some few pixels.
I can see this when I reload the original SPU from file
(Ctrl-Z). When typing Ctrl-Z the subpic moves sligtly a few
pixels.
I get the same strange effect if I choose "4:3" instead of
"16:9 Widescreen" in the beginning. However, if I do not choose
any screen mode after loading the .sup file - i.e. the combobox
is empty, then I do not see any difference between the modified
and the original subpic.
So I guess, that the content of the subpic has not moved, it must
be some kind of "display problem". But it is annoying anyway.

What might be the reason? I guess stepping though the source code
will not help _me_ fnding the reason.

To make the problem reproducible, I uploaded a small (57k) .sup file:
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=752bb9d5bc1236d0896b8bcfb63f39f8e04e75f6e8ebb871

I have a suspicion that this isn't caused by the outside editing, but by the cropping that takes place before the bitmap is exported. Can you check whether this happens when you do "crop" (instead of shift-ctrl-E)?
Jeanl

[jeanl]

Retiming a single .sup file would be a great feature.
It is one of the few things I'm missing in DVDSubEdit.
And I guess it should be much easier to implement
than retiming a .vob.
What so I need it for? Sometimes I wish to add a new
subtitle stream in another language. So I demux the
original .vob's, duplicate one .sup file, change the
text subpic by subpic and remux the whole thing in the
end. I open the audio files in some audio editor and
see very exactly, how much the subpics should be retimed.
It would be really helpful to do the retiming in the .sup
file before remuxing.
And if the translated text is larger than the original,
I have to worry that the compressed modified subpic is
too large to fit into the .vob. That should not be the
case for .sup.
I see, but aren't there tools out there that allow you to do that easily? I'll look into adding that to DVDSE...
Jeanl

[jeanl]

Here's version 1.5023
http://download.videohelp.com/DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEdit1.5023.zip

I've fixed the read-only attribute on sup files. I've added re-timing of sup files. Give that a shot, and let me know.
Jeanl

[kotyczka]

Here's version 1.5023
I've fixed the read-only attribute on sup files. I've added re-timing of sup files. Give that a shot, and let me know.
Jeanl

Thank you very much, it works like a charme!

One very minor note. When opening a .sup file
the playback buttons at the very bottom should
be disabled. It makes no sense to press them.
I already had the case that I startet playback
when only a .sup file was opened:

First I opened a full domain, then I opened the .sup.
Next I wanted to press the "next subpic" button,
which already had the focus. I didn't use the mouse
for pressing the button, but wanted to use the
"Space" key. I did not remember that you catch
that key event to start playback. So the playback
did start, but since there was nothing to play the
button just was flickering. No way to stop that.
So maybe it just should be disabled if a .sup file is
loaded.

[kotyczka]

I have a suspicion that this isn't caused by the outside editing, but by the cropping that takes place before the bitmap is exported. Can you check whether this happens when you do "crop" (instead of shift-ctrl-E)?
Jeanl

It seems you are perfectly right with this assumtion.
If I press the "Crop subpic background" button, I do see
the text moving some pixels too. And it happens only
if I choose 16:9 or 4:3. If the combobox keeps empty
I do not see the subpic moving while cropping.
However I still have no idea if that effect changes the
final subpic stream.

[jeanl]

Thank you very much, it works like a charme!

One very minor note. When opening a .sup file
the playback buttons at the very bottom should
be disabled. It makes no sense to press them.
I already had the case that I startet playback
when only a .sup file was opened:

First I opened a full domain, then I opened the .sup.
Next I wanted to press the "next subpic" button,
which already had the focus. I didn't use the mouse
for pressing the button, but wanted to use the
"Space" key. I did not remember that you catch
that key event to start playback. So the playback
did start, but since there was nothing to play the
button just was flickering. No way to stop that.
So maybe it just should be disabled if a .sup file is
loaded.
Yes, of course, that's an oversight. I'll fix that. Thanks.
Jeanl

[jeanl]

It seems you are perfectly right with this assumtion.
If I press the "Crop subpic background" button, I do see
the text moving some pixels too. And it happens only
if I choose 16:9 or 4:3. If the combobox keeps empty
I do not see the subpic moving while cropping.
However I still have no idea if that effect changes the
final subpic stream.
It shouldn't affect the final stream but I can't say that I've done extensive testing to prove that the subpic is absolutely in the same position whether it's cropped or not. However, I'm 99% sure that it is.
The reason why it appears to move is because of the display in DVDSubEdit: because in general the subpic isn't displayed as 1 pixel for 1 pixel (i.e., there's some reduction in size going on to fit the screen), there has to be some approximation. The approximation is never worse than 1/2 pixel, and can change depending on the display mode (4:3, 16:9 etc) and also depending on the size of the app. If you maximize the app to make the display area as large as possible, you might find that the subpic does not move at all when you crop. In any case, I don't think that's anything to worry about.
jeanl

[oso2k6]

Here's version 1.5023
http://download.videohelp.com/DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEdit1.5023.zip

I've fixed the read-only attribute on sup files. I've added re-timing of sup files. Give that a shot, and let me know.
JeanlHi, i asked for this option some posts before, and first of all thank you for implementing it, i tested it applying big delays of 15 seconds, then when remuxing, all was in perfect sync, so again, thank you very much. If i find any problems i'll post them here. Bye.

[alfixdvd]

With ripped movies that have the protection ARCOSS of SONY, and they have a first a cell of few frames, ie: 00:00:00.12, DvdSubedit shows incorrectly the time of all the subtitles, they are delayed forward.

Nevertheless extracted with PgcDemux they are correct.

Last movie with this behavior is Rachel Getting Married.

What's wrong!

[r0lZ]

The protected cells are wrong, not DVDSubEdit!

You can try to remove them with PgcEdit before using DVDSE, but be sure to keep a backup of your ripped files, as removing the cells may be very difficult. Verify also if the main movie plays fine.

[alfixdvd]

The protected cells are wrong, not DVDSubEdit!

You can try to remove them with PgcEdit before using DVDSE, but be sure to keep a backup of your ripped files, as removing the cells may be very difficult. Verify also if the main movie plays fine.

Yes I know, I can remove this first cell with PgcEdit, Dvd2one, DvdShrink, etc. But PgcDemux in spite of the wrong first cell, it extracts the subtitles with correct timming, I do not need to do an additional previous step with PgEdit or similar.

Why DvdSubedit does not do the same ?

[jeanl]

When you say that DVDSubEdit shows the wrong timing, what timing are you referring to? Is it the "Timecode" in the subpic info, or is it the PTS?
Could you post a detailed example showing the PTS and the timecode in DVDSE and the pts shown by pgcdemux?
Jeanl

[alfixdvd]

When you say that DVDSubEdit shows the wrong timing, what timing are you referring to? Is it the "Timecode" in the subpic info, or is it the PTS?
Could you post a detailed example showing the PTS and the timecode in DVDSE and the pts shown by pgcdemux?
Jeanl

The movie is Rachel Getting Married.

It has a first cell of duration 00:00:00.12.

Subtitles extracted with Pgdemux show:

First subtitle in stream PTS = 9579600 TimeCode: 00:01:46,439
First forced subtitle in stream PTS = 115729200 TimeCode: 00:21:25,880

Subtitles extracted with DvdSubedit (File -> Open Full domain) show:

First subtitle in stream PTS = 19958400 TimeCode: 00:03:41,759
First forced subtitle in stream PTS = 126108000 TimeCode: 00:23:21,200.

PTS's and Timecode are different.

Values from PgDemux are synchronized with the image, values from DvdSubedit are moved forward.

[fulham]

Hi,
I recently moved to apple computer and tried to use DVDstudio PRO which is a MAC software. Unfortunately this programme's text 'back bar or background' covers the whole screen and it cannot be resized! I need the 'back bar' or the grey text box as most of the video clip that I subtitle have light background.
I then tried to use dvdsubedit's 'crop' feature on one of the subtitles and I could see the dramatic effect. The back bar was trimmed to the size of text immediately. I applied the modification to all subtitles which also worked very well. I saved and exited with joy.
But when I played the edited dvd folder - nothing has changed. The whole screen still darkening everytime a subtitle shows up!
Tried it again and again - no success. I don't know if it is only a problem with saving or the backbar itself cannot be resized.
I didn't have such problems with the windows based computers.
I will really appreciate your help re this matter.
Please note that I am running dvdsubedit using "virtual win XP" from within the MAC platform.
Cheers,
Fulham

[QUOTE=jeanl]This is surprising. If you cropped, applied to all, and saved, and everything went OK, then this really shouldn't happen. When you reload the modified DVD into DVDSE, does the background take the whole picture, or does it appear cropped, as when you saved it.
I can only see the following explanations:
- You applied to a particular stream of subs which is different than the one you selected in the player? Try applying to all stream simultaneously, then saving.
- On some of the subs (maybe many), the cropping fails to properly see the bounding box of the text (could be because of a spurious pixel here or there in the sub), and you didn't see that when you applied to all. Try pinpointing a sub that shows the problem, then open the DVD with DVDSE, go to that sub (make sure it's the same stream), and look at the background to see whether it was properly cropped.

Another way to solve your problem is to make the background transparent (which it obviously isn't currently). DVDSE can easily do that for you, all you have to do is select the background pixel, and move the transparency slider to full transparent, apply to all, and save... This should do it.

Jeanl

Hi Jeanl,
Thanks for the response.
1. I need the back bar as my video clip has very light background. One can't read most of the the subtitles without it.
2. There is only one subtitle stream and I applied the crop 'to all' and then saved it before exiting DVDSE. Before I closed it, I did browse the changes at random (as I have about 600 subtitles, I didn't go through all of them) and they all looked cropped properly.
3. When I reload the modified DVD into DVDSE, the cropping is all gone! In other words, nothing seems to have been saved!
This is all reproducible everytime.
I am really stuck now.
Please let me know what should I do next.
Thanks,
Fulham

[ericf]

Wait a minute, this is already implemented! If you change the colors of the pixels in a subpic (by clicking the colors in the clut display - NOT by shift-clicking which changes the color of the CLUT itself), you can apply the same modification to any other subpic by pressing Ctrl-V (shortcut for paste).
Isn't that what you want?
Jeanl

Thanks for alerting me to that feature!
However, most of the time I'm not using the CLUT colors since I'm using a color that is the closest to the signs I'm subbing. That what I'm using this feature for most of the time.

Is it possible to implement this ctrl+v option with the shift+click colors as well?

Oh, and is it possible to "teach" the OCR not to substitute l with I and mark italics so that they come out right in the srt?

Thanks.

ericf

[r0lZ]

The colors you change with the shift key are the colors in the IFOs. They are not dependent of the current subpic, but are global to the whole PGC. It doesn't make sense to save the same CLUT several times.

However, in some rare cases, the same VOB cells are reused in several PGCs, and they may have different CLUTs. I'm not sure DVDSubEdit saves the colors modified with shift in all PGCs referencing the VOB cells, or only in the first PGC it finds. Anyway, you can modify or copy/paste the CLUTs of the PGCs with PgcEdit.

[ericf]

Thanks. I'll see if I can try that. Never done it before.
ericf

[jeanl]

Yes, I couldn't have said it better than r0lZ! in 99% of cases, you'll just need to create the color you want once, then use it for every subpic, in which case, Ctrl-V (or apply to all) will answer your needs.
Jeanl