Announcing DVDSubEdit Version 1.51

[setarip_old]

@jeanl

Hi!

Can DVD SubEdit be used to increase the height of subtitles?

[jeanl]

If you mean make them taller, no. If you mean move them up toward the top of the picture yes...
Jeanl

[setarip_old]

Unfortunately, I meant taller.

Glad to see you posting here ;>}

[_Assie_]

Any news on improvements for searching subpics?

[jeanl]

:) no, no real news... :(
Jeanl

[frank]

For using DVDSubEdit as tool in PgcEdit it would be very useful to implemet some CLI.
So we could open the right VOBs directly.

[r0lZ]

I agree! ;)

[jeanl]

Yeah, I keep on forgetting! I'll add that.
Jean

[fja_dk]

I've been using DVDsubEdit for some time now - great tool... I have one question:

-how come it is not possible to change sub-picture start-time in sup file mode ?

I have a DVB-T recording where one sub-pic is overlapping another (starting time is the same) - and dvdauthor fails because of this. I need to move one subpic to start earlier, but this is only allowed in VOB mode.... Seems strange as I AM allowed to change duration in sup mode ????

If possible I would very much like to have the needed feature added! I have one recording waiting - and I know of no other way to correct the error...

[jeanl]

It's an oversight on my part. It's true that changing the start time in sup mode is actually a lot easier than in vob mode! I should add that as well.
Are you sure none of the other tools allow you to modify that in your SUP file?
Jeanl

[BlueCup]

I second the editing of SUP files.

One thing I have encountered when trying to retime a subtitle is this error: Couldn't locate an empty slot!

Subpic# = 52 (0 in stream)
StreamID = 0x20
LBA = 293694
V/CID = 1/3
PTS = 44756712
Duration = infinite
TimeCode: 00:08:16,566 --> ?
DCSQT: 0
Set Color: e2=1 e1=0 p=0 b=0
Set Transparency: e2=15 e1=15 p=15 b=0
Set Display Area: sx=272 ex=449 sy=398 ey=438
Set field indexes
Start

I'd like to change the ???? to a duration.

[jeanl]

I think you're mistaking two things.
To change the duration from infinite to finite, a new DCSQT has to be added, and this can only be done if there's enough room in the subpic pack. If not, you get an error that says
"Not enough space in the subpic pack to add another DCSQT!"
To retime a subtitle (i.e., to advance it or delay it, but not change its duration) you often need to physically move the subpic pack(s) in the vob file, and insert it in an empty "slot". If no empty slot can be found you get this error:
"Can't find an empty slot for subpic XX! It won't be moved...."

The two errors are different, and apply in different situations...
Jeanl

[BlueCup]

Well I have a movie that was fansubbed and there are quite a few subtitles that are set to infinite. They need durations set to them otherwise they stay on screen.

So if the .SUP file itself was editable I can manage but I guess there isn't any empty slots for me to add/move in the VOB file?

[jeanl]

You can set a duration in a SUP file... The only thing you can't do is "retime", meaning, change the time at which the subtitle starts displaying. But you CAN open a sup file, and set a duration to a subpic that's infinite. Just click on the duration slider and it will ask you if you want to add a DCSQT to set a finite duration. However, if the subpic pack isn't large enough you can't turn an infinite subpic into a finite duration.

You can also set a duration in a VOB, almost always. If you can't this means the subpic pack isn't large enough to accommodate an extra DCSQT. Same as in a SUP file.

In fact, in a sup file, there shouldn't be any problem because there's no vob to make bigger, so it should be easy to enlarge the given subpic (add a full pack) to make the duration finite... But I haven't implemented that...

Jeanl

[mpucoder]

Couple things I don't quite follow on editing a sup file. A .sup file does not contain packs, these are used only in .vob files (as they are program streams). Rather each subpicture is stored as a spu in contiguous bytes.

The other thing is about timing subpictures in a .sup file. This should be very easy, the start time is encoded into bytes 2-5, in intel byte order, as the relative pts (the first frame has the value of zero). This value should always be a multiple of the frame duration (either 3003 for NTSC or 3600 for PAL)

[kumi]

.Sup editing would be a great feature. In the cases where you just can't do it in-VOB, especially.

[ericf]

I'm still unable to change starting times of all subtitles in a DVD.
According to the maual (which refers to button names that don't exist, by the way) I'm supposed to select a subtitle and then move it forward or back.
Well, I do. Then I try to make the command the same for all subpictures (nothing is checked in that box that comes up). I save and exit. Nothing has been changed. Could you perhaps create a button that says Change start time for subtitles and make that work? I can change transparency but not timing. By the way, nothing happens to the subtitle time when I use the Re-Time this subpic button. Only when I change total duration of subtitle.
And what is the difference between Re-time this subpic and Re-time Selected Subpic?
Thanks
Ericf

[jeanl]

ericf,
The retiming feature does not work exactly the same as the rest of the editing features. If you retime one (so it's displayed earlier or later), you can't "apply to all" that change (which is why you don't see that in the "apply to all" dialog).
To retime a bunch of subs in one shot, you need to select them, the click "Re-time Selected Subpics". They they will all be retimed, in a single shot. I thought the manual was clear about that?
The fact that the displayed timing does not change for the subpic that you've retimed might be a bug. I'll take a closer look at that, and get back to you.

Jeanl

[jeanl]

mmm, I just did a test:
Chose 1 subpic, clicked "retime this subpic", moved it by about 4 seconds, and the display updates normally and shows the new start time... Is this not working for you?
Jeanl

[ericf]

I guess it's the choosing of subtitles that isn't clear. I can see no info on how to choose subtitles, single or all. It just says:
"make sure you load the full domain and click the “Retime selected SPUs” button. A small dialog will popup where you can specify by how much the selected subtitles should be moved. Positive values (for example +1s) will make the subtitles appear later than they currently do."
No info on selecting the subtitles here.

The subpic selection box at the top is not the one, right?

I don't have the DVD I was working on on the HD anymore so I can't check right now but could you please tell me what to do to select the whole subtitle or a few subtitles?

Thanks.
Ericf

[jeanl]

That's where things are not as good as they could be. You can select an entire given stream, or a given cell, or subtitles that contain certain text. But you can't select several subs "by hand" (as for example, with Shift-click or Ctrl-Click in standard editors)...
Jeanl

[ericf]

Hmm...
So how do I go about selecting? The only feature I can find is the one I mentioned: The box at the top right. Subpic selection.

I always select the english language stream there.

I still can not make the whole subtitle track move a single 100th of a second. Nor can I make one single subtitle move. Even if I wanted to change one subtitle, the only way I can change it, from what I can see, is to make it shorter or longer. I can't make it move in time.

I've tried this so many times without being able to make it work and you say you can do it with no problems. So what do you do that I don't do? I try to follow the "guide" but the "guide" says nothing about how to select subtitles as my quote earlier shows.

Please make a step by step example so that I can follow the steps and try to make things work on my end.

When I have "selected" the subtitle stream I want to change in the upper right box that says Subpic selection (if there's only one subtitle stream I guess I don't have to select it), what do I do next? Press the Re-time Subpic or press the Re-time selected subpics? If I do any one of these the result is, what? Do I get some info on what has been done to the stream? Do I get info on how to apply the modifications to the whole stream? I cannot find any way to get any info on what changes have occured to the stream. Should there be information crossed in the Apply last modifications to all window? But no information appears in that window. Nothing is crossed after I make the timing changes.

Do you see where I'm coming from? From my end, I'm doing what I can to follow the manual but I still don't get anything to work.


Thanks.
ericf

[jeanl]

The "selected" subpics are the ones you can access with the horizontal slider: all the ones that can currently be seen by moving the selection slider, or using the left-right arrows.

You're not trying to do that on a SUP file, right? This only works on VOBs.

OK, here's the step by step instructions:
- Open the VOB files (the entire domain, which means vts_01_1.vob vts_01_2.vob ... etc if you're dealing with titleset 1.)
- Select the right language in the upper right box. Now the "selected subpics" are the subpics of that language.
- Click "re-time selected subpics". A dialog appears that says "Change timing for all selected subpics".
- Select by how much you want to move it by moving the slider. The video display updates to show you the frame that corresponds to the start of the subpic as you've selected it.
- Click "OK". A box opens to confirm "There is NO undo for this" etc... Click OK.
- There will be a progress dialog showing how far along it is.
- When done, the start time of all the subpics should be modified (you'll see a different PTS value, and the "Timecode" field will show different start and end times).

Jeanl

[Nobody At Home]

@ Jeanl,
have no much problems with your DVDSubEdit. But I have to say thank you for developing this great software. It's not easy to find Software thats matching my wishes. Your's match !

thanks

[jeanl]

Thanks! That's great to hear! :)
Jeanl

[ericf]

Sorry. That's how I've been doing things. It doesn't seem to work. If the first subtitle is at 0,0 seconds, will that stop the whole process? But I've never been able to move one subtitle in any DVD before either.

Also, I can tell you that the progress dialog doesn't appear for more than a fraction of a second.

The thing is, when I've done the things you say to do, I'm pressing make changes. Nothing happens in the subtitle display (exept a green text says its Modified). When I change the time the video window updates but that's it. And unless you save once more your changes won't be done to the stream, right? Unless you choose save all mocifications after, for example, changing the trasparency of the subtitles, the changes won't happen. So I tell the program to make the changes that I cannot see that it has done, exit the program and see that nothing has happened to the streams. The save time is not the time that is shown for the VOB files.

No, I would'nt know about sub editing. I only use regular formats like ssa, srt and ass for subtitling movies. Those formats don't come into play here.

So my question is; Why does it work for you and not for me when we are doing the same things to the stream?

The only time the time indicators change for a subtitle is when you change the duration of it. When I make changes to the start times of subtitles the only message that comes up in the subtitle box is Modified. But the subtitles are not being modified in the way I want them to be.

I've checked so that the stream isn't read only so that's not the problem either. I can change subtitle transparency without any problems.

I use version 1.38.

ericf

[jeanl]

mmm, something is not right here... I have a newer version available, but I don't think it would fix your problem, but it's worth giving it a shot.
http://download.videohelp.com/DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEdit1.389.zip

If that does not work either, then you should send me a tiny bit of the vob file so I can try myself...

When re-timing subtitles, you don't have to save. The changes are done in the VOB directly, which is why there is no undo. That's unlike all other modifications which are not effective until you press save all modifications (transparency, position etc).

Jeanl

[ericf]

I think I've found the problem. Not completely sure, but...

I had to copy the vobs from a burned DVD. I made sure to make the folder writable but it seems like it's impossible (it should be!). I don't know why but I kept changing the folder from read only to write and it kept changing back to read only.

Moving the vobs into an already existing folder was the key to success. Now I get a progress meter when making changes to the stream.

It's strange how this happened but sometimes you just have to be happy that you finally found the problem.

Thanks.
ericf

[jeanl]

Boy! Normally DVDSubEdit tells you if you open files that are read-only! It's surprising that it failed without any warning....
Jeanl

[ericf]

I was happy too early.

The DVD I tried and succeded with is, so far, the only one that I can change the subtitle timing on.

I can find no reason why this doesn't work on all DVDs. Perhaps you can.

You mentioned posting a bit of a VOB to you. How would I go about splitting that part off?

Could you guide me on how to check for differences in the one DVD I could change and the ones I can't? If there's a program to check on the streams there should be a way to get that info and post it for you to read.

All the DVDs I have tried are re-authored DVDs.

Do you have any idea what could be the problem with a VOB when it cannot be changed with your program?
All DVDs can change transparency without problems.

I did note that you said that this subtitle timing change is done differently than the other changes.

I'm out of ideas.
Could you let me know how we could pinpoint the problem so that it might be eliminated?
Thanks.
ericf

[jeanl]

:(
I'm really puzzled by that. Did you try the version I gave a link for, a couple posts above? If that does not work, then send me a bit of VOB. Here's how to do that.
- Use jsoto's cutfile program
http://download.videohelp.com/jsoto/tools/CutFile_exe.zip
- Cut about 10MB of vts_01_1.vob (assuming your movie is in vts 1), make sure at least a few subtitles are included!
- Now, try to open that tiny vob file with DVDSubEdit and see if you can or can't retime subtitles. Make sure the file is alone in the folder (DVDSubEdit will only re-time a subtitle if you have opened all the VOB files in the domain). If it doesn't work, then send that to me using either http://www.verzend.be/ or http://s2.yousendit.com/
My email address is jeanldvd at free dot fr.

Jeanl

[ericf]

I'll try that. I'm away for the whole day today so I'll try and do it in the evening.
Ericf

[ericf]

If I cut off a bit I can change the subtitle timing.
With the whole DVD I cannot.

Any idea why that is?
How do I check for differences in DVDs? Mabye there is something in how DVDs are authored that causes the progam to work on some not others?

ericf

[jeanl]

mmm, I was afraid that would be the case. Argh...
The program should be able to work right for all DVDs. Something is going wrong some place, but I don't quite see where.
Send me a message at jeanldvd at free dot fr and I'll send you a debug version with more messages. Perhaps this will tell us what's going on...
Jeanl

[r0lZ]

Have you noticed that:
(DVDSubEdit will only re-time a subtitle if you have opened all the VOB files in the domain).
Are you sure you have opened the whole set of VOB files (VTS_XX_1.VOB, VTS_XX_2.VOB...)?

[ericf]

Yes. The whole domain is opened.
ericf

[ericf]

Jeanl: You have mail!
ericf

[ericf]

Can't open the exe file. missing a file called msvcrtd.dll.
Any idea what to do?
A lot of other files and errors crop up when i've downloaded the first dll and a second (mfc42d.dll) that the program asks for. Then it asks for a number in the mfc42d.dll (5056).

ericf

[jeanl]

I sent you a full version (with mfc statically linked). Should be good now.
jeanl

[ericf]

With this version I get an actual progress meter. Now and then.

Second try the meter just blinks. No messages.
Subtitles are not retimed.
ericf

[jeanl]

OK. I think I'll have to run some more extensive tests, on a full DVD. This will have to wait a bit... :(
Jeanl

[ericf]

I should add that there is no change to the dates of the files. That should mean that nothing has happened to them, right?
By the way, I'm on a Windows XP Home OS.
ericf

[mc2man]

is there any way to run subedit in wine? All the other progs. of great value i've got running but no luck here

[jeanl]

Yes, no change of date -> no change whatsoever (if it's the modification date you're looking at).
@mc2man: What happens when you try to run it in wine? This question has probably been asked before, but I don't remember!
Jeanl

[mc2man]

What happens when you try to run it in wine?
Unfortunately nothing (Fiesty 7.04 wine 0.9.35) i'm 95% sure it's not a question of missing/wrong ver. dlls. As far as what events need to take place for subedit to open is well above me. I do see that menushrink does work(xp mode) and appears to be similar to subedit in alot of regards. (from a clueless point of view)

[doggersen]

DVDSubEdit really works great when it comes to removing the hearing impaired text automatically.

But a special mean kind of text for the hearing impaired unfortunately are now seen in most dvd-releases now.

It's the thing where all the text jumps around on the screen, dependent on who is talking. So if a guy in the upper right corner is talking, the text is shown in the upper right corner.

It would be nice with a feature where you could somehow automatically make the program center ALL the subs.
Would that be possible? (or any other solution that might solve the problem).

[CoNS]

In my experience approx. half of the new region 1 DVDs have subtitles like that.

When I first saw the non-centered subtitles I had the same thought as you, and I don't even think it would be very hard for jeanl to implement a function to center all subpics, since he has already developed the code for it (there is an option to horizontally center modified subpics when removing hearing impaired text).

However, if you think it through you may realize that the result would not look pretty.

Often there're subtitles showing dialogue between two or more people on the screen simultaneously, e.g. "Hello" to the left and "Hi Mrs. Smith" to the right at the same time. If you center such subtitles, you won't be able to see that the lines are spoken by more than one person, and you may even end up in situations where the dialogue gets mixed up in the same lines (if the dialogues are at the same line vertically).

Subtitles which are centered from the start usually account for this by having a dash (-) at the beginning of each line of the dialogue, but non-centered subtitles don't.

I have gotten used to the non-centered subtitles by now. Usually they don't jump around all over the screen as you describe; they are mainly located in the lower half of the screen.

[jeanl]

There's an additional wrinkle. If you have two subs at the same time, in different spots, they're encoded as a single bitmap (in other words, they're not two individual rectangles that you can move around). Moving them around independently means re-encoding the bitmap, so it's not a simple extension of the current technique to move them around....
jeanl

[doggersen]

First of all thanks for the feedback to both of you , Jeanl and CoNS!

It might not be as bad as I make it, and one can probably more or less get used to it.
But it still seems to me that with a few changes it could be quite a lot better.

If we, for a start, forget about trying to solve the "wrinkle" Jeanl mentions.

Wouldn't it be easy to center the MAIN-parts of the subs on the middle (and also lower it a bit, since they are often on 3 lines compared to the normal 2 lines) ?
And since it would conflict with trying to center the separated words displayed on the same time, wouldn't it be possible to have the option of removing them completely or move them down to the bottom of the screen? (i suggest remove them as an option, since thet usually just consists of a couple of words).

Regarding the text-bits showed simultaneously; im not sure how possible it is, now that it has to be re-encoded first.

But if we pretend for a moment it's possible to re-encode them, I have an idea as to how to treat them.
Split it up, so that each word gets displayed ONE at a time.
Let's say that "hello" and "hello smith" are displayed simultaneously for 3 seconds, then one would have the program show the first "hello" in 1½ second, then disappear and have "hello smith" displayed for 1½ sec.

It should be possible to get to read in time, since they are displayed over the same timespan as previously, just not at the same time anymore.
Natural to say, those would then be able to be centered, without any overlaps.


Sorry about the clumsy formulations!

[Grave]

is it just me or are the displayed button positions off by a couple of pixels? (not subpics/highlites, just green button outlines)
(2 pixels off vertically, button position shifted upwards)
noticed this when i verified the correct positions after editing button postions in pgcedit (which cant display hilites)