Announcing DVDSubEdit Version 1.51

[jeanl]

mmm, that's strange. I tested it this morning, and it was doing the right thing for me. The VOB files are saved instantly when you do that, and I'm not sure it tells you that anything has changed... Re-timing subpics is a bit special in that sense. But if you say that the VOB wasn't changed, this indicates a problem....
Jeanl

[r0lZ]

Are you sure the file is not read-only?

[jeanl]

I think DVDSubEdit complains if it is...
Jeanl

[ericf]

Yes, it complains if I haven't shut down a DVD player after checking for differences. The player is still linked to the files unless you shut down the program.
I'll check and see if the subtitles adjustment works in this new version if I need the timings to change universally.

Thanks.
ericf

[setarip_old]

@jeanl

If one selects "Only show forced subpics", then makes some modifications to those forced subpics, and then saves - Will the saved file contain ONLY the (modified) forced subpics, or will it include ALL subpics (including modified forced subpics) that were in the original subpic stream?

[jeanl]

It will include all subpics.
Jeanl

[setarip_old]

Thanks for that info - but let me pursue this a bit further:

(Assuming that there is a set of forced subtitles included as part of the primary subtitle stream)

If one selects "Only show forced subpics", and then selects "OCR selected subpics, and then selects "Save selected subpics as .SUP file", would that result in an .SUP file of the ENTIRE original subtitle stream or an .SUP file of ONLY the forced subpics?

**EDIT - I meant to say, "Save as SRT" - and, as you stated, it does work...

[jeanl]

When saving to a sup file, it would only save the selected subpics. So you wouldn't have the rest of them, just the forced subpics.

Jeanl

[setarip_old]

Thanks, that's great news! Your automated OCR is so fast that it will save a considerable amount of time (versus a program such as "SubRip") when adding forced subs to an .AVI of a movie such as the "DaVinci Code".

(I read through the documentation and didn't find very much info regarding forced subs - certainly not about this wonderful nugget. It might be beneficial to add some more details about what can be done when selecting forced subs)

Once again, I've discovered another reason to be impressed by this jewel of a program - Thanks ;>}

[kmac61]

subedits ability to modify a subs starts also allows you to "fix" titles that weren't done well from the start. For instance 'Three Burials 'doesn't have forced subs for the mexican speech, you have to enable the english subs to view them. While you have to modify them 1 by 1 you can fairly quickly create forced subs as needed. (keyboard controls are much quicker). The opposite would be a movie like Heaven (Paradis) which is around 75% italian, the rest english. The english subs is displayed for all speech which is annoying for the english parts. In this case subedit can make the whole stream forced, then you can go back and set the subs for the english speech back to normal and they won't display (with subs off). I did notice that when there are separate ws and lb streams you have to modify both at the same time to effect any changes to type of start

[jeanl]

Man! You guys have discovered many more uses for forced subs than I was aware of. It's true that once you start thinking about it, it's possible to do a lot of things with forced subs. The only thing is my DVD player's remote control does not have a button for subs on/off. Turning them off/on is done by cycling through all languages after which there's a "no subs" choice. But this pretty much invalidate using forced subs, because for them to be visible, the stream has to be selected, with the subtitles "off". I can't do that with my player (how dumb is that?!)

Thanks for the good words guys!
Jeanl

[r0lZ]

But you can do it with a SetSTN command, to select the right stream but turn it off.

BTW, my old Sony has no Subpic ON/OFF function neither, but I've discovered that this function is available with an universal remote control. :)

[kmac61]

I think that if you've reauthored the title (movie only) any individual subs set as forced will display without touching the remote, ie. they'll act as true forced subs
another good use is some movies have background conversations that are included in the subs but only my dog could hear in the audio

[ericf]

So I'm back again with questions.

I'm trying to move all subtitles to .3 seconds earlier.
The guide says:
"DVDSubEdit lets you resynchronize the subtitles by moving them as a whole by a fixed positive or negative delay. Again, make sure you load the full domain and click the “Retime selected SPUs” button. A small dialog will popup where you can specify by how much the selected subtitles should be moved. Positive values (for example +1s) will make the subtitles appear later than they currently do. Negative values will make them appear before they currently do."

I do that, press apply changes, the screen blinks and it's done? Is that all I do? No other commands?
Because these changes are not appearing in the VOB. They're not saved again.

Should I select Edit, Apply last modifications to all? Because when I do, there is no trace of the changes I just made to the stream.

So, what do I do to move the whole subpicture stream .3 seconds earlier?

ericf

[_Assie_]

Hi Jeanl,

First of all thanks for creating DVDSubEdit.

But I got one problem. When moving the subs vertically and an uneven value is chosen to do so, the subs become fuzzy and messed up. Like this:

http://www.assie.speedxs.nl/forumpics/oceans11subs.jpg

This happens only when the sy= value is uneven. Like this:

Set Display Area: sx=240 ex=477 sy=419 ey=495

Can you fix this problem?

Greetings,
Mark

[setarip_old]

@_Assie_

Hi!When moving the subs vertically and an uneven value is chosen to do so, the subs become fuzzy and messed up.
This is a display problem, not a DVDSubEdit problem. Simply move the subs to an even numbered vertical line...

[_Assie_]

@_Assie_

Hi!
This is a display problem, not a DVDSubEdit problem. Simply move the subs to an even numbered vertical line...

Then you have to go trough all the subs of a movie manually!
When i move the subs with the borders there are some subs that have an uneven value but you don't know which ones.

Can't there just be a button to even up the sy= value of all subs?

[dialysis1]

The Da Vinci Code subpicts can be modified so that only the forced subs are visible. Simply make all subpicts clear and Apply Last Modification To All. Then put a check mark in Show Only Forced Subpicts and make those opaque. Then do Apply Last Modification To All again and save.

[setarip_old]

@_ASSIE_Then you have to go trough all the subs of a movie manually!That can be done in DVDSubEdit with just ONE click!

Move ONE of the subpics to an even vertical line number - and from the "Edit" dropdown menu, select "Apply last modification to all" and then from the "File" dropdown menu, select "Save"...

[_Assie_]

Yeah but that's not a perfect solution. Because when you move all the subs at just one value, subs with only one line are moved to high and subs at the top of the screen are moved up instead of down.

So you really need the borders for that. Otherwise you still have to go trough all the subs manually to check if they are not in the black bars.

[setarip_old]

So then you move the borders (with, perhaps, putting a checkmark next to "Flush")for just one subpic to an even vertical line number - and, as I said before, from the "Edit" dropdown menu, select "Apply last modification to all" and then from the "File" dropdown menu, select "Save".

It's still just required to manually modify ONE frame...

[r0lZ]

But, setarip, in this case, as _Assie_ said, it is impossible to have the guarantee that some subpics will not be moved by an odd number of scanlines.
This problem is not just a display problem. It is probably related to interlaced video. The top and bottom frames are inverted after the move.
IMO, DVDSubEdit should either swap the lines of the subpic in this case, or add a checkbox somewhere to force the moves by an even number of scanlines.
Jeanl, what do you think?

[jeanl]

DVDSubEdit does swap the lines when moving by an odd number of lines, but I wrote that code quickly, and I'm not 100% sure that I didn't mess something up (although it looked fine in my tests). I will revert to forcing even numbers for now, until I have time to fix that thing.
Jeanl

[jeanl]

So I'm back again with questions.

I'm trying to move all subtitles to .3 seconds earlier.
The guide says:
"DVDSubEdit lets you resynchronize the subtitles by moving them as a whole by a fixed positive or negative delay. Again, make sure you load the full domain and click the “Retime selected SPUs” button. A small dialog will popup where you can specify by how much the selected subtitles should be moved. Positive values (for example +1s) will make the subtitles appear later than they currently do. Negative values will make them appear before they currently do."

I do that, press apply changes, the screen blinks and it's done? Is that all I do? No other commands?
Because these changes are not appearing in the VOB. They're not saved again.

Should I select Edit, Apply last modifications to all? Because when I do, there is no trace of the changes I just made to the stream.

So, what do I do to move the whole subpicture stream .3 seconds earlier?

ericf
ericf, this is strange. I checked again recently and that worked just fine. Are you sure there are subpics in the file? Did you select a stream that had subpics in it? Normally, moving a full subpic stream by 3s would take quite a while (a few seconds for sure) and the vobs would be saved. You don't need to apply to all, the operation changes all the subpics. But did you make sure you were not modifying 1 subpic? Did you select "Re-time selected subpics"?
Jeanl

[_Assie_]

DVDSubEdit does swap the lines when moving by an odd number of lines, but I wrote that code quickly, and I'm not 100% sure that I didn't mess something up (although it looked fine in my tests). I will revert to forcing even numbers for now, until I have time to fix that thing.
Jeanl

That would be great, thanks Jeanl.

Can it be possible for DVDSubEdit to work directly inside an image file, in the future?

[jeanl]

You mean, an ISO? No, they're read-only usually, and for a good reason. But in absolute truth, it would be possible because in theory, DVDSubEdit does not change the length of the VOB, just moves packs around, so in theory that could be done in an ISO. But I don't plan on writing that... What specific use would you have for that?
Jeanl

[_Assie_]

It just would save time and space unpacking the files from the image files to hard disk. That's all.

[jeanl]

A question for mpucoder (which a few people might be interested in, so I'm asking here)...
There's one thing I'm not 100% clear on.
Does the TopField, in a subpic, necessarily correspond to an even starting line or can it be arbitrary?
Another way to ask the question is this: to move a subpic down by 1 pixel, can I simply increase the StartY value by 1, without exchanging the top/bottom field offsets in the subpic pack?

I think yes, (and from one of your earlier posts, I think this is right), but I just want to confirm.
When moving subpics up, and if StartY is 0 (i.e. the subpic data starts at the first line), then it's necessary to exchange the offsets if the number of lines I'm moving by is odd, if I'm correct.

This is what DVDSubEdit does, but somehow, this is messing up in some cases, and for some people.
So I'm puzzled: are we 100% sure that moving down by 1 pixel does not require exchanging the even/odd field offsets? (that could explain the problems I'm seeing)...

Jeanl

EDIT: I did some tests, and now, when moving down by 1 pixel by increasing StartY, at least in PowerDVD, the offsets do not need to be changed... So I'm puzzled as to what the problem could be.

[r0lZ]

Does it need to be changed in progressive video? It might be necessary for interlaced fields only. Just my 2 cents...

[jeanl]

Well, mpeg2 does not really define interlaced vs progressive, IIRC, as every combination of field/frame coding is allowed in the specs and can be done on a frame by frame basis. In any case, I believe the subpics are coded independently of the video, and always define an even and an odd field...
jeanl

[CoNS]

Can it be possible for DVDSubEdit to work directly inside an image file, in the future?I would love such feature, too.

Editing with DVDSubEdit is usually the only editing I do to my backups before burning, and since the DVDs on my harddisk are image files it would sure save me quite a lot of time and hard disk space if DVDSubEdit could handle image files.

[jeanl]

Well, now that ImgBurn can create an ISO on the fly, there's really no reason why you should rip in ISO mode, instead of file mode, in my opinion. But it would be quite a bit of work to make it work inside the ISO: the read/write functions would have to be replaced with something that can parse the UDF filesystem. not easy.

In any case, I posted a "new" version 1.36, which reverted to moving by even numbers. I'm still puzzled, but this will get you going for the time being.
Jeanl

[setarip_old]

@_Assie_

Did my last suggestion work for you?

[mpucoder]

I'll run a test myself, the definition of the pointers is top and bottom field (and subpictures are always defined as two fields without regard to the video. The intent was to allow for half res images, ie top and bottom field use the same data). Since wiping can be done without changing the pointers I'm beginning to believe the fields are not related to the screen position. One thing, though, StartY should never be < 2

[kmac61]

i've never seen a commercial title where the sy was anything thing
but even, the most common being 2. But whatever the value it's always even. I would guess the majority of interlaced tv's require this.

[mpucoder]

OK, here's what I've found so far. Of course on all players StartY of 2 or 4 works properly.
Odd numbers with the pointers in the same order as even (top field being line 0 of the source) display field-swapped on my Sony, properly on WinDVD, and PowerDVD does a line wrap (line 0 of the source displays at the bottom!)
Swapping the pointers got the standalone to display properly, WinDVD and PowerDVD both displayed field-swapped.
The question now is which players are following the rules?
The only thing left to test is to swap the data so that the pointers obey the rule that top field be at a lower address than bottom field.
The test was muxed using MuxMan, which always sets top field to the data from line 0 of the source. The pointers were swapped using VobEdit.

edit: here it is 20 minutes later, modifying MuxMan to swap the data was simple. The results are strange - standalone displayed properly, WinDVD displayed field-swapped, and PowerDVD displayed both field-swapped and line-wrapped

[jeanl]

mpucoder, thanks for all these tests!!! You're fast!
Given the strange results that we get for an odd StartY, the simplest and fastest solution is to always force StartY to be even, and play with the pointers to move the subpic by 1 line (I already do that last part).
I didn't know that StarY had to be at least 2. DVDSubEdit does not respect that constraint! That's bad! I'll have to fix that as well.
Your tests explain why things were messed up for some users, but not others or when tested in PowerDVD...
I think I know what to do to allow moving by any line count now. Thanks a whole lot!
Jeanl

[jeanl]

OK, here's a new beta version:
http://download.videohelp.com/DVDSubEdit/Downloads/DVDSubEdit1.361.zip

This version allows moving subpics by odd numbers of lines, but it does that while constraining StartY to always be even. I'm hoping this will behave right in all DVD players, hard and soft.
If you guys could give that a shot, that would be great! I tried it in PowerDVD and it works fine, but I don't have a player handy at this very minute...

Thanks!
Jeanl

[kmac61]

works fine now on sony and pioneer players

[jeanl]

GREAT! Thanks for testing!
Jeanl

[Mtz]

Seems to be OK. Still I have some problem with one character when moving the subtitles.
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/2999/1gd7.th.jpg (http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1gd7.jpg)
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/3697/2at7.th.jpg (http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2at7.jpg)

enjoy,
Mtz

[jeanl]

You know, I've noticed that on some of mine as well. I'll need to look into that again. It looks like the code broke down while I wasn't looking! :D :D :D
Jeanl

[Mtz]

This "bug" was always in all versions of DVDSubEdit if I remember correctly. But the last version is the best until now because in anothers subpictures I can't see this bug which was in previous versions with letters like p g.

enjoy,
Mtz

[_Assie_]

Hi Jeanl,

I tested your latest 1.361 version and when moving the subs by an odd number the sy= value stays even and the subs don't come out fuzzy anymore.

Good work!

[jeanl]

Thanks _Assie_... I'm glad this is fixed, I was really puzzled by it. Thanks to all who helped!
Mtz, one of these days, I'll take a better look at that part of the code. Promise!

Jeanl

[_Assie_]

Jeanl,

Is it possible to create a search function for the duration of subpics?
So that DVDSubEdit selects all the subpics that are above the specified amount of seconds.

[jeanl]

It's possible, but how useful is it? What's your idea?
Jeanl

[_Assie_]

It's possible, but how useful is it? What's your idea?
Jeanl

Mainly for troubleshooting.
After a conversion i've seen some subpics that have infinite duration.

BTW when the duration is set to infinite DVDSubEdit can't adjust this.

[_Assie_]

Does anyone know if you can adjust sunpics with infinite duration?

[jeanl]

What does DVDSubEdit report when you have an infinite duration?
Jeanl