List of BD-Rebuilder Compatible Players (BD5\BD9 output)

[alluringreality]

Still...I see your point but not a lot I can do as it could well be that ALL those "movie only" players need the AVCHD information?

My point was just either to change or remove the following quote, because it doesn't apply to the movie only selection.

The is a thread for listing known compatible and incompatible Bluray players with regards to playback of BD-ROM video structure on a DVD+R\-R\DL, also known as BD5 and BD9.

It is NOT a thread for listing players that are capable of AVCHD\Patched BD9\Anthing Else.

The movie only setting is similar to the mutant AVCHD/Blu-ray format that tsMuxer, TsRemux, or AVCHD-Patcher create. The disk falls outside BD-ROM because of the information that appears only on AVCHD disks, and it isn't really AVCHD either because the audio and video can fall outside spec.

As far as the question if all the players under movie only require the AVCHD information, I know the Magnavox does not because it is reported as being able to play strict HDMV from DVD media. On the other hand apparently the Magnavox does not play strict AVCHD, so it must have something to do with folders like reported with the Samsungs.

[Furiousflea]

My point was just either to change or remove the following quote, because it doesn't apply to the movie only selection.



The movie only setting is similar to the mutant AVCHD/Blu-ray format that tsMuxer, TsRemux, or AVCHD-Patcher create. The disk falls outside BD-ROM because of the information that appears only on AVCHD disks, and it isn't really AVCHD either because the audio and video can fall outside spec.

As far as the question if all the players under movie only require the AVCHD information, I know the Magnavox does not because it is reported as being able to play strict HDMV from DVD media. On the other hand apparently the Magnavox does not play strict AVCHD, so it must have something to do with folders like reported with the Samsungs.

Gotcha, I'll change that now. Only reason I worded it like that was to avoid confusion and try keep things clear cut as possible....

"I only want to know if the output from BD-Rebuilder will playback" would have been better in hindishgt.

Edit - I've changed the title and re-worded the text in op slightly. Hope this is all good? :)

[turbojet]

Samsung 2500 can be added to the list of Movie only, same line as 2550 is fine, just different regions of the same player.
AnyDVD fixed the region problem with panasonic players so that bit can be removed.
It seems like some Panasonic (BD35\55?) will only play movie only if 24p is unchecked in the player options, perhaps add 'If the movie doesn't play make sure 24p is disabled in the players menu'.

[Furiousflea]

Samsung 2500 can be added to the list of Movie only, same line as 2550 is fine, just different regions of the same player.
AnyDVD fixed the region problem with panasonic players so that bit can be removed.
It seems like some Panasonic (BD35\55?) will only play movie only if 24p is unchecked in the player options, perhaps add 'If the movie doesn't play make sure 24p is disabled in the players menu'.

Thanks, added.

[DK]

Technically the list might be wrong. But if what you say is true and has GaPony has said in the post after yours with the Samsung player needing this info too...Where are we supposed to find users knowledgeable and with the inclination to bother finding out if their players needs this extra info.

I actually have problems with BD-RE playback on the Samsung BD-2500 using bd-rb 0.20.03b

I did NOT use the "stricter avchd" setting yet but will retry.
So far bd9 w/out "stricter" setting work, but same title as bd-re25 does NOT work for me.

Will keep you updated.

+++

can confirm that i had to delete auxdata for bd9 playback

[turbojet]

Does deleting AUXDATA folder from BD25 do anything?

I believe all that stricter AVCHD setting does is delete folders (AUXDATA\BDJO?) that aren't part of AVCHD structure which somehow allows some players like Samsung's play even if it isn't really an AVCHD or even in the correct structure.

I would be interested to see if Sharp players can play encodes that are in a real AVHCD structure. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AVCHD_actual_file_structure.jpg)

[DK]

No, for BD-RE it did not help.
I already deleted auxdata because bd09 would not play at all with auxdata present.

I'm burning to BD-RE right now once again with different settings within imgburn and see if it changes anything.

[turbojet]

Have you tried while keeping the AUXDATA directory?
I think for full backups that folder might have some files in it that are needed to play some BD's.

[GaPony]

No, for BD-RE it did not help.
I already deleted auxdata because bd09 would not play at all with auxdata present.

I'm burning to BD-RE right now once again with different settings within imgburn and see if it changes anything.

Let me know exactly what you're doing and I'll try to duplicate it or find a solution... Is this a full movie or Movie Only? Let me know what movie(s) you're trying and if I have the same title, I'll use it.

[DK]

I used "movie only", burned with auxdata present and another time absent: failure in both cases

Title was Bone Collector, RCF => BD-RE 25

Same title => BD9 withOUT auxdata runs fine, with auxdata not.


Tonite I realized that my Samsung BD-2500 does NOT play 10 orignal Blu-rays, Bone Collector among them!
Only bought a BD player some 4 weeks ago and now I find it absolutely frustrating that (with latest firmware available) 10 out 30+ original titles do not play.

So I really wonder what can I try to analyze in order to find a system behind all this "failure"?

The BD-RE copy runs fine on the PC btw.

Is there any kind of folder/structural element that you would try to locate and see if other titles do or do not have this aspect in common?


+++
What FW do you have on your BD-2500, GaPony?

[Furiousflea]

If 10 of your original refuse to play and they are from different shops and they definately have no physical damage.

You player is broken.

Take it back and get a new one, we can't help you until you do because it's possible that your laser is on the way out and thus it might play some media types and not others. Either way we won't be able to help you because if something doesn't play it could be the player causing it. No way of us knowing.

I used "movie only", burned with auxdata present and another time absent: failure in both cases

Title was Bone Collector, RCF => BD-RE 25

Same title => BD9 withOUT auxdata runs fine, with auxdata not.


Tonite I realized that my Samsung BD-2500 does NOT play 10 orignal Blu-rays, Bone Collector among them!
Only bought a BD player some 4 weeks ago and now I find it absolutely frustrating that (with latest firmware available) 10 out 30+ original titles do not play.

So I really wonder what can I try to analyze in order to find a system behind all this "failure"?

The BD-RE copy runs fine on the PC btw.

Is there any kind of folder/structural element that you would try to locate and see if other titles do or do not have this aspect in common?


+++
What FW do you have on your BD-2500, GaPony?

[turbojet]

I can't think of anything else currently.

It is really frustrating even after 2+ years of BD having all these different issues with various BD players. When they start messing up their players because of new encryption they sink way too much money into and that usually gets cracked within a few months it's even worse. All I remember reading about with DVD players from the same brands is multi-angle and seamless branching issues but I don't think that even existed 2 years after DVD first showed up. I hope the BD industry realizes it needs to get back to the basics and stop complaining about how much money they are losing to piracy. I think most of there loss is due to the high prices (causing people to pirate) and trying to invent new encryption techniques that cause all the hardware manufacturers to come up with yet another firmware.

Basically in your case it sounds like you have to pirate the copyrighted material just to watch the BD you rightfully paid for in a very different state it really shouldn't work this way and you might want to let Samsung know of this. Whatever it is it could also be what's affecting your backup issue as well.

It could very well be laser but I wouldn't doubt Samsung is trying to play tricks in their firmware like they have been recently.

If you do take it back and have a chance to get another brand, you might want to keep in mind that Sony players play BD-RB full backups on BD5/9.

[GaPony]

I used "movie only", burned with auxdata present and another time absent: failure in both cases

Title was Bone Collector, RCF => BD-RE 25

Same title => BD9 withOUT auxdata runs fine, with auxdata not.


Tonite I realized that my Samsung BD-2500 does NOT play 10 orignal Blu-rays, Bone Collector among them!
Only bought a BD player some 4 weeks ago and now I find it absolutely frustrating that (with latest firmware available) 10 out 30+ original titles do not play.

So I really wonder what can I try to analyze in order to find a system behind all this "failure"?

The BD-RE copy runs fine on the PC btw.

Is there any kind of folder/structural element that you would try to locate and see if other titles do or do not have this aspect in common?


+++
What FW do you have on your BD-2500, GaPony?

I have the latest version... 2.4 I think. I think I agree that your player is broken. I've never had an original disc fail... and you shouldn't either.

[DK]

Very same BD-RE plays fine on a Samsung BD-1500 :mad:

[jwjohnson]

I can confirm that you have to disable 24p playback on the Panasonic DMP-BD35 to successfully play a movie only BD-25 done with BD-RB.

[treeboy]

I have a Philips BDP 7200 that has been able to play ever movie-only (BD-5 & BD-9) backup I have done with BD-RB with the exception of one, that being 40 Year Old Virgin. 40 YOV has multiple M2TS files and I assume this is the reason for failure as all the rest of the movies have been single M2TS's and as stated earlier all have been successful. I haven't tried a complete backup yet as I haven't purchased any BD-25's but perhaps I'll try it to a BD-9 just to see.

Well it's been a while and after a few (3) full movie DVD-9 backup attempts I have to say that the Philips 7200 does not, I repeat not play entire BD backups.

[Ghitulescu]

Denon BD-3800 both BD9 and BD5. Verbatim (BD9) and Ritek (BD5)
PS3 both BD9 and BD5. Verbatim (BD9) and Ritek (BD5)

I think after a player is known to play BR in BD9/BD5 discs, it is also important to note that some players prefers certain brands than others. Also, there are brands/batchs that are known for problems all the time either single or double layer. For instance, I have Ritek for DVD5 but that brand is not good for DVD9 (DL) whereas Verbatim shines.

Could you check again the Denons?
I've checked myself (all 3 EU-models) and none could play an industrial made BD5 (guaranteed 100%), not various outputs from freewares or badly written sharewares (1-click-solutions). You may check the post here -> http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1266385#post1266385.

[jdobbs]

Well it's been a while and after a few (3) full movie DVD-9 backup attempts I have to say that the Philips 7200 does not, I repeat not play entire BD backups. Some manufacturers have no interest in that market... and with the price of BD-Rs dropping, they may have good insight. I think they'll all eventually support AVCHD, just so there is at least one good home-video standard for HD. But that is a small subset of what full-up BD provides.

[Ghitulescu]

Well it's been a while and after a few (3) full movie DVD-9 backup attempts I have to say that the Philips 7200 does not, I repeat not play entire BD backups.

The EU model played my BD5 flawlessly. Its a Samsung, and all Samsungs did the same.

See my post and the follow-ups here->http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1266385#post1266385

[shearer69]

I can't think of anything else currently.

It is really frustrating even after 2+ years of BD having all these different issues with various BD players. When they start messing up their players because of new encryption they sink way too much money into and that usually gets cracked within a few months it's even worse. All I remember reading about with DVD players from the same brands is multi-angle and seamless branching issues but I don't think that even existed 2 years after DVD first showed up. I hope the BD industry realizes it needs to get back to the basics and stop complaining about how much money they are losing to piracy. I think most of there loss is due to the high prices (causing people to pirate) and trying to invent new encryption techniques that cause all the hardware manufacturers to come up with yet another firmware.

Basically in your case it sounds like you have to pirate the copyrighted material just to watch the BD you rightfully paid for in a very different state it really shouldn't work this way and you might want to let Samsung know of this. Whatever it is it could also be what's affecting your backup issue as well.

It could very well be laser but I wouldn't doubt Samsung is trying to play tricks in their firmware like they have been recently.

If you do take it back and have a chance to get another brand, you might want to keep in mind that Sony players play BD-RB full backups on BD5/9.
Samsung seem strange to me. I bought a 1500 was told by salesman to update when setup at home which I did. all was well till I did my own hd discs with nero from my hd camcorder, nothing would play, same with backups using bdrebuilder without deleting auxdata. and bd9 fullbackups no way would play. So out of curiosity I flashed firmware 2.3 back to previous version and then everything started playing without having to delete folders for movie only. I then shrank batman begins and pirates of caribbean fullbackup to dvd9 as a test and they played back perfectly. It seems there 2.3 update disables something for avchd etc. So I wrote to samsung awaiting reply (won't hold breath on it). So reverting back to older firmware seems to cure playback of avchd and bd9. Think dobbs is great for his proggy

[DK]

BD-9 (Verbatim DL 8x), which played on Samsung BD-1500 and BD-2500 before do NOT run on the latest BD-1600.

Auxdata folder removed.


BD-9 data burned to Verbatim BD-RE DOES run :mad:

[turbojet]

Have you tried on 1600 with blank auxdata directory?

[DK]

I did - doesn't make a difference.

The strange thing is that the very same/identical data burned to a DL media does NOT run whereas burned to rewritable BD-RE works.

[alluringreality]

BD-1600

The manual http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/200903/20090303154644515/BD-P1590,1600-XAA.pdf lists AVCHD. The Movie-Only mode is based around AVCHD *.bdmv files, and the "Stricter AVCHD compliance for movie-only" should mainly limit the output to actual AVCHD folders produced by commercial software. Try the Movie-Only mode with the item under Settings -> Setup and see if the player will play it. Many AVCHD players would play that output.

Using those settings the only items I can think of right away that are not in line with AVCHD from commercial authoring software is that the programs don't seem to include the CERTIFICATE folder. Also *.clpi would begin with HDMV0100, and *.mpls would begin with MPLS0100. I can't think of ever running across any standalone players that seemed to either fail or play depending on those items.

[DK]

Will give it a go and encode a title again with "stricter options".

Still I don't understand why the identical material runs fine from BD-RE and not from DL media.

[GaPony]

Will give it a go and encode a title again with "stricter options".

Still I don't understand why the identical material runs fine from BD-RE and not from DL media.

BD25 is pretty much a universal standard... BD5/BD9 written to DVD media are not. There are lots of people in the same boat. Only a handful of players handle BD5/BD9 without any intervention of some sort.

[alluringreality]

Will give it a go and encode a title again with "stricter options".

I don't think the setting does anything except get rid of some of the empty folders. If you've already done a Movie-Only disc, just delete the extra folders. AVCHD discs from commercial authoring software only appear to include:

/BDMV
/BDMV/BACKUP
/BDMV/BACKUP/CLIPINF
/BDMV/BACKUP/PLAYLIST
/BDMV/CLIPINF
/BDMV/PLAYLIST
/BDMV/STREAM

Generally over the past couple years Samsung players have performed differently depending on firmware, so you also might want to see if you're running current firmware.

[DK]

Thanx for the hint.

I was talking about MOVIE ONLY and still have all the data of different titles on my drives so I can check.


Concerning this:
Also *.clpi would begin with HDMV0100, and *.mpls would begin with MPLS0100.
Will I have to rename any files?

And yes, the BD-1600 is fairly new and the fw used on my version is up2date.


C.f. attached screenshot of the structure pls.

I will remove those folders not in your list and what about the files in the root folder:

index.bdmv
MovieObject.bdmv

Leave them as they are?

[alluringreality]

I'll assume that the Movie-Only encodes were done with the current version. If that's not the case then you might want to just rerun things. If you encoded using the current version, then BDMV is the main (or root) folder that will appear on the disk. Inside the BDMV folder you should have only the folders shown in the image, and you can delete the extra folders that Blu-ray uses.

What I was talking about with *.clpi and *.mpls was the contents of the files and not the file names. If you open the files with a text editor or a hex editor, the commercially-authored AVCHD would begin with HDMV0100 and MPLS0100 respectively. You can just use a text editor or a hex editor to change the 2 to a 1, but so far I haven't ran across a player that had a problem with the 2.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z109/alluringreality/AVCHD.png

[DK]

Tried the following to no avail:

a)
- BDMV
-- Backup
-- Clipinf
-- Playlist
-- Stream
-Certificate
-- Backup
index.bdmv
movieobject.bdmv

b)
- BDMV
-- Backup
-- Clipinf
-- Playlist
-- Stream
index.bdmv
movieobject.bdmv

Nothing works.

Thanx for your input so far!

[GaPony]

Try removing the \BDMV\Backup folder entirely.

[alluringreality]

Nothing works.

I'm scratching my head on what I would try. I would probably see if I could get the player to play an AVCHD disk created with commercial authoring software. If a commercially-authored AVCHD didn't work then I'd probably try complaining to Samsung, and if it did happen to work then it could provide a comparison to figure out what was different and keeping the Movie-Only disc from working. Programs like Corel VideoStudio, Nero Vision, and TotalMedia Extreme will allow you to author a video clip to AVCHD, and I think they might all have had free trials at one time or other.

The only other item I ever remember reading about with any Samsungs was about shutting off 24p http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16004283#post16004283.

[DK]

Try removing the \BDMV\Backup folder entirely.

Tried this as well and NO :mad:


Programs like Corel VideoStudio, Nero Vision, and TotalMedia Extreme will allow you to author a video clip to AVCHD, and I think they might all have had free trials at one time or other.

I'll see if I find any of those.

Regarding the 24film isssue: I'll check this but I doubt it makes a difference as the media will be ejected very soon after loading w/out any such green flash.

++++

24film setting did NOT help
Could "Booktypes" change anything?
I wonder if BD-R or BD-RE could be set instead of DVD-ROM.

[GaPony]

Maybe some consideration of exchanging this player for one of those listed to be compatible, is in order.

[DK]

I have had the 2500 in use before but it did not play ~1/3 of all my Blu-rays and that's why I exchanged it for this brand new 1600, which so far plays everything more thanf ine except BD-9.

I still don't understand why converted 8.x GB data burned to a BD-RE play whereas the same data burned to DVD double-layer don't.

[jdobbs]

I have had the 2500 in use before but it did not play ~1/3 of all my Blu-rays and that's why I exchanged it for this brand new 1600, which so far plays everything more thanf ine except BD-9.

I still don't understand why converted 8.x GB data burned to a BD-RE play whereas the same data burned to DVD double-layer don't.
The player senses a different disc type (different laser) and may access an alternate code-stream/path. When it knows the source is a red laser, it expects a DVD as opposed to a BD...

[Ghitulescu]

I still don't understand why converted 8.x GB data burned to a BD-RE play whereas the same data burned to DVD double-layer don't.
It's like feeding the digital-coax with a digital-optical cable expecting it to work because the signal is the same. It's the medium that makes the difference.

If you read one of my posts, you'll find there a comparison to miniDVD, which was a CD-R containing DVD video. Very few players could cope with such a "strange" format. Despite the capability was present.

BD5/BD9 is tolerated just because the BD-R and -RE standard and technic was not ready in time, so this would have delayed the sales on HDTV-camcorders.

That's why AVCHD discs on DVD (a sort of BD5/BD9) appeared before the BD-R standard, being a sort of BluRay Disc "lite".

[turbojet]

Samsung BD-P1600 should probably be added to the not compatible list then.

LG BD370 reported working with at least movie only backups (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1264293#post1264293) I'm still waiting to hear if it was full backups or movie only he was referring to though, but at least it can be added to movie only for now.

Also shouldn't Fully backup be full backup?

And regarding Philips BDP 7200 (Maybe have trouble with multiple m2ts movies, can be solved though by extracting with eac3to and then creating bd output in tsmuxer)
doesn't movie only produce a single m2ts so this should be a non issue?

[Furiousflea]

Samsung BD-P1600 should probably be added to the not compatible list then.

LG BD370 reported working with at least movie only backups (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1264293#post1264293) I'm still waiting to hear if it was full backups or movie only he was referring to though, but at least it can be added to movie only for now.

Also shouldn't Fully backup be full backup?

And regarding Philips BDP 7200 (Maybe have trouble with multiple m2ts movies, can be solved though by extracting with eac3to and then creating bd output in tsmuxer)
doesn't movie only produce a single m2ts so this should be a non issue?

Not nessacarily, BD-RB would always join up the m2ts though. (?)

I'll swap the other bits after I've had a coffee n a smoke n woken up...my brains somewhere else right now...It's difficult pressing buttons.

[turbojet]

The 3 seamless branching BD's I've done with BD-RB and movie only have processed this way from what I remember:

1. open playlist in tsmuxer and demux audio and subs
2. encode video of each m2ts separately
3. mux by appending all video streams and the audio/sub created in step 1 resulting in a single m2ts.

It's kind of a unique way of doing things but it does seem to work well and it's fast. Trying this outside of BD-RB is a ton of work.

Demuxing video from a seamless branched playlist in tsmuxer results in a corrupt video stream.
eac3to demuxing does work but it takes usually more then twice as long to demux then tsmuxer even on single m2ts BD's.

[zem]

Hey there,
Maybe somebody else pointed this out, but as the first page of this thread makes no mention of it...
Could anybody else re-check a BD9 with menus on the PS3 with the new firmware (2.70) ? I only have one of those (13 Ghosts), and it's working with menus and extras. I'm rebuilding another BD9 with menus as I speak, hope to be able to check tonight.

[turbojet]

Zem: European, USA or asian PS3?
Is there anything in the BDJO directory of 13 ghosts?

[zem]

It's a european PS3, first generation. I'm not at home right now, I'll check the disc tonight.

[turbojet]

Oh ok there was another report awhile ago of a european first gen PS3 playing full backups with hdmv menu (empty bdjo directory) but still definitely worth a try of latest firmware in other regions.

edit: It would also be interesting to see if first gen european players play BDJ menus (bdjo directory is not empty)

[turbojet]

A few things to add to movie only list:

LG BH300 (may need to use strict AVCHD option OR delete CERTIFICATE/AUXDATA/BDJO/JAR/META directories)
LG BH370 (may need to use strict AVCHD option OR delete CERTIFICATE/AUXDATA/BDJO/JAR/META directories)
Memorex MVBD-2510 (with Dec 24 2008 or later firmware)
Memorex MVBD-2511
Panasonic DMP-BD10
Pioneer BDP-51FD (use strict AVCHD option OR delete AUXDATA directory)
Pioneer BDP-94HD
Samsung BDP1200 (prior to firmware 2.3)

NOT COMPATIBLE
Samsung BDP1000

I'm all done now. Also you might want to mention that if you have a player that isn't playing a movie only output on DVD try using the strict AVCHD option OR delete AUXDATA directory, if that doesn't help try deleting CERTIFICATE/AUXDATA/BDJO/JAR/META directories

[Furiousflea]

A few things to add to movie only list:

LG BH300 (may need to use strict AVCHD option OR delete CERTIFICATE/AUXDATA/BDJO/JAR/META directories)
LG BH370 (may need to use strict AVCHD option OR delete CERTIFICATE/AUXDATA/BDJO/JAR/META directories)
Memorex MVBD-2510 (with Dec 24 2008 or later firmware)
Memorex MVBD-2511
Panasonic DMP-BD10
Pioneer BDP-51FD (use strict AVCHD option OR delete AUXDATA directory)
Samsung BDP1200 (prior to firmware 2.3)

Cheers very much! :)

[turbojet]

You missed

MOVIE ONLY
Pioneer BDP-94HD

and

NOT COMPATIBLE
Samsung BDP1000
Samsung BDP1600

in the first post and LG BH300 is listed twice.

[Furiousflea]

You missed

MOVIE ONLY
Pioneer BDP-94HD

and

NOT COMPATIBLE
Samsung BDP1000
Samsung BDP1600

in the first post and LG BH300 is listed twice.

BH300 isn't listed twice ;)

Thanks for the others...bit duhhhhhhhh today :)

[turbojet]

BH300 isn't listed twice ;)

Thanks for the others...bit duhhhhhhhh today :)

LG BD300
LG BH300 (may need to use strict AVCHD option OR delete CERTIFICATE/AUXDATA/BDJO/JAR/META directories)

it's really BH300

and you forgot to remove the unnecessary info attached to the phillips player

no problem

[Furiousflea]

LG BD300
LG BH300 (may need to use strict AVCHD option OR delete CERTIFICATE/AUXDATA/BDJO/JAR/META directories)

it's really BH300

and you forgot to remove the unnecessary info attached to the phillips player

no problem

...Well thanx again :)

Hopefully for the last time today ;)