Alternative Matroska Splitter (Haali)

[Rectal Prolapse]

More bugs in Haali Media Splitter (latest version June 2007 release):

1) Playback of the Casino Royale North American Blu-ray release - at the 1:15:28 mark of the M2TS file, Haali suddenly stops playback and seeks to the very end of the file. Only way around it is to restart the player and navigate to just past this point to continue playback. This issue is NOT present when using any other splitter (Gabest, Nero Splitter, Sonic HD Demuxer).

2) LPCM tracks in M2TS streams are not flagged correctly as LPCM - instead they are sent as PCM, which unfortunately is wrong as the channel order for multichannel PCM is *DIFFERENT* from LPCM. Directsound expects tracks in this order: L,R,C,LFE,LS,RS - but LPCM tracks (from Blu-ray discs for example) are: L,R,C,LS,RS,LFE (for >5.1 tracks, LFE is always the last track). People are getting the WRONG channel order and are not noticing it, probably because they don't use Haali, or they have stereo-only speakers. :)

Anyways - here's hoping for a new release - it's been 10 weeks. :)

[Kurtnoise]

There is also an issue (or a feature not included yet ? but it's strange because audio streams are read as well. That's why I suspect a bug) with files remuxed with FFmpeg : video stream isn't read/parsed whereas with the Gabest splitter it is...

I can provide you a sample if you want.

[Pirks]

Haali, could you please look into adding AC3 audio support for QuickTime MOV files into your Media Splitter?

Here's a URL of the sample file for you: http://www.dniq-online.com/misc/video/swordfish-explosion.mov

It has AC3 5.1 audio track and H.264 hi-def video track. Size is 32 megabytes.

Thanks! :)

[Kurtnoise]

I'm curious...:) How this file has been created ?

[Pirks]

I'm curious...:) How this file has been created ?With Apple Quicktime 7.2 of course. What else people could use to create such crazy files, huh? :)

Kurtnoise, are you a developer or just a bystander?

I'm asking 'cause I've been dealing with Haali directly w.r.t. my bugreports. Are you one of the Haali Media Splitter developers now?

[Kurtnoise]

not really a developper...:) afaik, Haali is the only one (God?) who wrote this filter.


About Quicktime: maybe...but not on windows OS then.

[Pirks]

Kurtnoise, sure it was created not on Windows, since Windows Quicktime doesn't have any AC3 codecs available.

Haali, could you please also look into adding MIDI soundtrack support to your Media Splitter? Here's a sample of a MOV video clip with a MIDI sound track:

http://www.dniq-online.com/misc/screenshots/osx_vs_vista/SwanLake%20and%20MIDI%20soundtrack.mov

Thanks again :)

[gigah72]

i use halli renderer as default output in mpc, now i downloaded a 720p hd trailer from apple and realized, i can't view it with this renderer, same with upsized avs script, or the resize filter set in ffdshow to match screen resolution. now problem with other renderer output in mpc.
is this a known problem?

[chros]

i use halli renderer as default output in mpc, now i downloaded a 720p hd trailer from apple and realized, i can't view it with this renderer, same with upsized avs script, or the resize filter set in ffdshow to match screen resolution. now problem with other renderer output in mpc.
is this a known problem?
Which trailer is this? URL ?
I've never encountered any problem with Apple's trailer with this setup ...

And this is not the renderer thread ... :)
See: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=108088&page=40

[Rectal Prolapse]

It's nearly the end of September - is the Haali Media Splitter project dead? Has Haali gone on sabbatical? :P :)

[Thunderbolt8]

The DMO codecs are COM components just like DirectShow filter, so simply regsvr32-ing them should be sufficient, but I don't think I've ever tried that.

I'll give you a hint: wmvdmod.dll is the old (pre-v11) decoder, wmvdecod.dll is the new (v11) decoder. If you've got wvc1dmod.dll present, you'd probably want to unregister that one too, as wmvdecod.dll handles both WMV3 and WVC1 decoding.
hm I regged the wmvdecod.dll and unregistered the wmvdmod.dll, but I cant playback 300 in vc-1 codec remuxed to .mkv any more. I was able to play it back with mpc & haali when I used the WMVdecoderDMO (or what it name was) as external filter, but after that unregistering of the wmvdmod.dll there is just <not registrered> written in such brackets beside the filter now and it wont playback the video any more -.-

[clsid]

Those two filters use the same registry keys. So if you unregistered the old one *after* registering the new one, then you should try registering the new one another time.

[Thunderbolt8]

worked, thanks :)

[bmnot]

I going through withdraw, I need me some Haali updates :(

[Nicholi]

Yes, the project is dead. Haali said he doesn't like you anymore. No more updates, evar! Greedy children get nothing for Christmas this year n_n.

Take, Take, Take!

[Liisachan]

Really? Gabest is inactive too now. Which makes, matroska inactive on Windows (no updates for some of most-used muxers/demuxers). Just a few days ago Musepack SV8 beta was out. If this was a few years ago, Matroska perople would have worked so that users could mux Musepack. First kaxdemux.dll was stalled. Then 2nd filter by Gabest. Then now 3rd filter by Mighty Haali? Sad.
Good news is that mosu's MkvToolnix is totally alive, working on Windows too. But no decoders? Maybe we need to use ffmpeg, mplayer, or VLC in the future to play MKV if Mosu adds something new encoder-side?

Edit: encoder/decoder-->I mean "muxer/demuxer"

[Isochroma]

Yes, it is scary that no progress by Haali or Gabest has been made. Mosu may yet find the time, once MKVToolnix is mature, to take the source code for these splitters and improve it, since he is now in the leading development position.

Luckily, the most important work has already been done, VFW and ACM support across all MKV tools means the majority of current and new codecs will be supported. Outside of VFW/ACM, AVC, AC3, DTS support is pretty mature.

What needs work is native VC-1 de/muxing (for HD-DVD & Blu-Ray), proper (complete) native MPEG-2 support for de/muxing. Now perhaps just using WVC1 fourcc in VFW-mode will work OK, but I'm not sure how well b-frames are supported?

[Rectal Prolapse]

Oh, is the source for Haali Media Splitter actually available? If so, then it doesn't matter if Haali stopped work on it - we can do the work ourselves! :)

There are some bugs I want to fix in Blu-ray playback - and I would like to add Blu-ray and HD-DVD subtitle support, as the pins are present but are not active or so it seems. Later I can modify the open-sourced DirectVobSub filter to support the subtitle streams...

Nicoli: Boy are you overreacting or what? Very funny at any rate. :)

Anyways - thank you haali for the great run with your splitter/muxer.

[vlada]

AFAIK Haali's splitter is not opensource. In fact I wasn't able to find any word on it's license.

The good thing is that Haali is still visiting these forums. According to his profile he's been here yesterday. Haali please let us know what's going on. Whatever it is, we'll understand. ;-)

[LeMoi]

Really? Gabest is inactive too now. Which makes, matroska inactive on Windows (no updates for some of most-used muxers/demuxers).

Really ? I saw some days ago a project on SF called 'Guliverkli2' with versions of Media Player Classic, isn't Gabest the owner of this project ?

[lamer_de]

As you can guess by Nicholi's post, the project is not dead. He was working with core, as they bundled the splitter with their coreavc, so at least I'd guess if they want something in, it'll be done. However, rumor has it he was asked by a company to write a firmware for a standalone player that supports matroska, so he's probably doing that right now.

CU,
lamer_de

[kurt]

However, rumor has it he was asked by a company to write a firmware for a standalone player that supports matroska, so he's probably doing that right now.
maybe on this one? http://www.tvix.co.kr/eng/support/betafirmware.aspx

[vlada]

Really ? I saw some days ago a project on SF called 'Guliverkli2' with versions of Media Player Classic, isn't Gabest the owner of this project ?

Guliverkli2 is a fork of the original project, it was created by clsid, as you can see on the SF page. You probably also know, that there is a ffdshow fork (called ffdshow-tryouts), because Milan has disappeared.

Sorry for OT.

[Rectal Prolapse]

Ah that makes sense - I forgot about Core. Well, I guess it'll be a while - best of luck to Haali and whoever else is working on it.

[Egh]

Haali media splitter is not open source and iirc never was intended to be. That is the only trouble I can see with this project. If Haali stops support and doesn't release the code either to public or at least to some chosen developers, someone would need to create it all from scratch :)

However Haali splitter is remarkably stable piece of software anyway, and hopefully wouldnt require much updates in future. I use that june build and tbh really don't have any issues.

In regards to post-Gabest MPC projects, first of all source was always there, it was only a matter for people to further the development. Me personally prefers Casimir's mods of MPC btw. He really moves into right direction adding new useful features.

[Haali]

To tell the truth, I didn't add any new features recently, only a few bugfixes. The project is certainly not dead, I'm still around, blablabla. I think it got to the point where I myself can use it daily as a plain user without having to constantly tweak or fix it. This is a good thing, and means a project reached some maturity. I have a couple of ideas about improving it, but that won't happen immediately.

[Thunderbolt8]

do you think it could be useful to release the sourcecode, so that others who like new features and would like to see them implemented faster, could do it themselves? or wouldnt you want this?

[Liisachan]

Really ? I saw some days ago a project on SF called 'Guliverkli2' with versions of Media Player Classic, isn't Gabest the owner of this project ? No, like already answered by vlada. But its not like a real 'fork', it's just "the original Guliverkli project plus a few patches made by various people. Please note that this project is NOT actively being developed." (quoted from the site) Still, it's very nice imo, at least much better than nothing.

FYI, the last I heard from gabest is:
http://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?msg_id=4201111

RE: Is MPC project dead?
By: Gabest (gabestProject AdminAccepting Donations) - 2007-03-10 10:18
It's not dead, just my current work does't really let me to continue it.

[madshi]

To tell the truth, I didn't add any new features recently, only a few bugfixes. The project is certainly not dead, I'm still around, blablabla. I think it got to the point where I myself can use it daily as a plain user without having to constantly tweak or fix it. This is a good thing, and means a project reached some maturity. I have a couple of ideas about improving it, but that won't happen immediately.
Thanks for the heads up! :)

I agree that the project is in a good state and doesn't really need constant tweaks/fixes. Especially TS support is very good and stable. If I had one free wish for this project it would be the addition of muxing support for HD DVD and Blu-Ray h264 movies.

[Nicholi]

I wonder what everyone thinks what "progress" needs to be made with the Haali Media Splitter? It sounds like people just want updates, but have no idea what updates they want. If it's not moving, it must be dead!

I didn't mean to give you all a heart attack :P. I "see" Haali on a daily basis in IRC channels...so I found it pretty laughable people thought the project was dead, let alone he was inactive/gone. As opposed to other developers like Milan, who we never see anymore, and Gabest who only pokes his head out of the woodwork every now and then in a post somewhere (he's had even more recent posts then the one Liisa-chan pointed out). The world of audio/video doesn't end and begin on doom9 ya know :). Gasp!

[vlada]

I think that there are quite clear feature requests: Support for new formats (Blu-ray, HD DVD) and improvements for current splitters (subtitles support for example).

Also I think there are some unanswered bug reports. So there certainly is some space for further development.

But I agree that Haali's splitter is a mature and stable project now and I'm using it without any problems.

[Thunderbolt8]

it would be nice, since newer implementions by hali arent planned in the near future, but only a bit later, if he could just release a quick update of the new version with the bugfixes he spoke of. I guess this could already help some more users with their problems.

[Jaja1]

Hi guys,

First post here.

First of all, thanks Haali. I use your splitter everyday and am impressed by the stability for ts files. For most blu-ray and HD-DVD titles it works great as well.

I would like to add Blu-ray and HD-DVD subtitle support, as the pins are present but are not active or so it seems. Later I can modify the open-sourced DirectVobSub filter to support the subtitle streams...
Adding subtitle support would be great, I miss that very much. At the moment I use evodemux or tsremux to demux the subs and convert them to .srt using supread. A process that doesn't allways give good results. So I would be very happy to be able to display subs on the fly.

As mentioned some HD-DVD and Blu-ray titles are not working properly. For instance Unforgiven HD-DVD runs well in some places, but is a total mess for most of the time. A complete Sonic chain works well, so I guess the problem is in the Haali splitter. Hopefully the bugfixes Haali mentioned will solve this.

[Liisachan]

I guess we were over-reacting a bit because we are feeling more or less uneasy now, facing major 'changes' (ffdshow, mpc...) Originally, I asked "Really?" when Nicholi said "the project is dead", so that was some kind of joke after all :) it's not like I believe everything I hear, but looking at ffdshow and mpc or vsfilter, I can't help but feel uneasy. Generally.
Technically there are several things that Matroska was going to support. Like Musepack SV8, and Theora (1.0 beta ish now?) but admittedly those formats are not too popular or widely used, so there's no big hurry at all. In a practical sense. Still, if asked "what would be progress?" I have several things in mind. Like, stalled USF, Gabest's SSF, ...Haali once talked about even faster sub-video renderer (He said '100fps') intriguing.

I agree, no version up for a long time could mean "stable" :)

@Nicholi: where can we read that post by Gabest?

[KoD]

HD-DVD and Blu-ray subtitles support also need vsfilter support, so simply having Haali demuxing the streams will not solve the problem.

The death of USF is a good thing. I think nobody that actually uses subs inside matroska files wants more formats of bitmap subtitles.

A standardized (and documented) method of storing avc and vc-1 streams inside matroska is what's needed, because as I understood the current way of doing things is a hack that's different from what the mkv specs say. In other words, the files currently being muxed by Haali's muxer as well as the new mkvmerge are not doing what the mkv specs say.

[DeepBeepMeep]

Thanks Haali, it is good to know that you are still working on your great filter. Personally I am also quite happy with it from a functional point of view and don't see any real need for new features beside maybe the ability to force fps / timestamps of the (muxed) video track to some predefined fps to avoid incompatibility issues with Reclock.

I wished I could have just one universal tool I could use to meet all my muxing / demuxing mastroka needs. At the moment, I have to switch between Mkvtoolnix, Haali filter, EvoDemux and TSDemux.

I think if you could fix some of the bugs which have reported recently (incompatibility with EVO/VC1 and ffdshow, AVC muxing problems, EVO / VC1 demuxing issues, DTS muxing issues, etc...), this would make the Haali filter a perfect candidate to be this univeral matroska tool.

Hopefully you can make this comes true. Thanks in advance...

[Nicholi]

@Nicholi: where can we read that post by Gabest?
He has made numerous comments at vdub.org over the last year, in reference to Avery Lee's "blog". Here is the last one I read, which was the beginning of this month.

http://www.virtualdub.org/blog/pivot/entry.php?id=167

[Liisachan]

Thanks Nicholi!

KoD: USF, ASS2, and SSF are all text-sub format, not bitmap. One of the motivations for a new textsub format is, that SSA/ASS has only 0.01 sec (100fps) time resolution, so currently subbers have to use some kind of hack to handle VFR equivalent to 120fps w/ null-frames. Nothing to do with rippers, who don't create sub themselves, and so probably what I'm talking about doesn't make any sense for 99% of mkv users.

After all, I'm not saying Matroska is 'delayed' or something new should be done; I just was shocked when reading Nicholi's joke, is all.

[KoD]

Sorry, I was under the impression USF was another bitmap subtitle format. I don't know why. The google cache of one of the corecodec sites says that it was and XML based format. Now I see why it hasn't caught, just like mp4's timed text sub format has not, either. While usual subs formats like srt or ssa/ass allowed for easy manual editing, writing an xml file all by yourself is not a funny task.

[lamer_de]

One of the motivations for a new textsub format is, that SSA/ASS has only 0.01 sec (100fps) time resolution, so currently subbers have to use some kind of hack to handle VFR equivalent to 120fps w/ null-frames.I don't get this, if you create the subs yourself there's no problem with using timecodes and a timecode-aware subbing program (i.e. aegisub) either, which makes 120fps obsolete.

CU,
lamer_de

[foxyshadis]

Which is pretty much why USF disappeared. USF was created several years before Aegisub & Medusa, though. =p

KoD: Mosu would never allow that to happen, so at least for AVC that's not the case. The specs are somewhat flexible anyway, there are several ways you can store the same stream (how headers are stored, especially).

[Haali]

We didn't specify any official way of vc-1 storage. My muxer writes it as a vfw compatibility stream. For a very short time there was a version that wrote V_VC1 streams, the code got to a public release by accident and is not present in current versions.

[Isochroma]

Can VC-1 be properly stored in VFW-mode or does its b-frames require a special packing mode?

[Haali]

No, it works fine as vfw. MS DMO decoders know how to handle that.

[Rectal Prolapse]

Haali, I think it is safe to say that my bug report for Casino Royale Blu-ray playback is in error. I believe i used the wrong method to rip using AnyDVD - 6 months ago I used the Windows Explorer method and that is (was?) known to not work properly! :)

(I did some tests and found discontinuities while processing with xport that should have not been there.)

[Liisachan]

I don't get this, if you create the subs yourself there's no problem with using timecodes and a timecode-aware subbing program (i.e. aegisub) either, which makes 120fps obsolete.

CU,
lamer_de If the container is MKV, yes. But we sometimes have to work on 120 fps AVI.

[Egh]

No, like already answered by vlada. But its not like a real 'fork', it's just "the original Guliverkli project plus a few patches made by various people. Please note that this project is NOT actively being developed." (quoted from the site) Still, it's very nice imo, at least much better than nothing.



10x, then i'm not bovvering myself with Guliverkli2. And of course there's more than nothing available as an alternative -- Casimir666 builds. Not only they include patches, but also some tasty features like EVR Custom presenter support.

[LeMoi]

I have a couple of ideas about improving it, but that won't happen immediately.

Maybe adding number of channels for audio tracks in Shell Properties ? Video framerate ? Number of chapters ? :)

[Rectal Prolapse]

Oh I forgot to mention the audio channel order bug when playing LPCM tracks. Blu-ray's channel order is different than regular multichannel PCM!

[gdb66]

Does anyone know if there has been any progress made on the MKV hardware acceleration problem?
See also this thread http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=129522
So far what I have been reading is that it is not sure if this is caused by Cyberlink, or the Haali splitter. Maybe Haali can say something about this?