Alternative Matroska Splitter (Haali)

[robUx4]

Haali, our friend from Russia who is also hosting our website, has coded a new Matroska DirectShow Filter. For the moment it's only tested on his machine but should support all that Gabest's one supports (!!!).

You can download the sources and binaries on his website (http://haali.cs.msu.ru/mkv/).

Feel free to test it and give feedback here.

[gizmotech]

/me would love to test it but can't for a few weeks.

Anyone w/ reports?

Gizmo.

[darth rosenberg]

TCMP is not working. It doesn't allow audio stream selection with this splitter. In MPC it works :oO (yes i have disabled MPCs internal splitter)

[Tri]

Seeking is very slow compared to MPC's in-built splitter, no matter what seeking mode I select. Switching audio streams also takes some ages (I tried files with HE-AAC 5.1, 2.0 and vorbis).

[robUx4]

Yes, the seeking problem is known and Haali will be working on it.

Also note that this filter is not meant to replace the filter of Gabest (yet), but to add the Menu/Control Track functionality that we are currently developping. We'll see how things evolve :)

[thoralf]

Originally posted by robUx4
[...] but to add the Menu/Control Track functionality that we are currently developping. We'll see how things evolve :)
Does that translate as "with this splitter, Joe User will be able to choose a single audio strea that will be demuxed from a multi-audio mkv"? If so: I must be dreaming! Everyone praise Haali right now! :-)

[robUx4]

In short, yes. That's one of the many possibilities.

[thoralf]

great, great, great. Thank you, guys! Spassibo, Haali ...

[robUx4]

Haali as been working with Toff to resolve all the possible/known bugs. The filter is now working very fine with all the codecs Matroska support. So in theory it could replace the one of Gabest (we even fixed bugs in other filters thanks to this new one).

So anyone could try it on his/her machine to tell us if there is any other bugs.

Next will be Control Track and Menus :)

[Hiro2k]

Originally posted by robUx4

Next will be Control Track and Menus :)

Drool

[Liisachan]

Subtitles sometimes work with MPC, but then MPC gets garbages as the track names for subtitles.
The problem is just related to displaying. Functionality is decent...

[robUx4]

Did you get the vsfilter that Toff fixed ? Otherwise autoloading doesn't work. Maybe there are other issues too.

[pcjco04]

Did you get the vsfilter that Toff fixed ? Otherwise autoloading doesn't work. Maybe there are other issues too.
Where can we get this fixed vsfilter ?

[[Toff]]

It's contain in this archive :
http://www.matroska.org/~toff/103_rc4_filters.rar
Which contain some candidate filter for the next matroska pack.

The only fix is that it's able to autoload with Haali's Splitter.
And about VSFilter showing messed up track name it's normal, the splitter is missing a little something. :)

[Liisachan]

I tested MPC's internal sub renderer first (which is autoloaded internally by MPC), then that altered VSFilter. Both doesnt show the track Names for subs atm.

Originally posted by [Toff]
And about VSFilter showing messed up track name it's normal, the splitter is missing a little something. :)
Good to know.
I suppose this is just under construction right now.

[robUx4]

The new version has fixed the vsfilter problem (you'll still need Toff's version).

[gizmotech]

Interesting. The new splitter works quite well w/ mpc and wmp. Would it be possible to have an option which prevents the splitter from sending all available streams to DShow? It gets pretty crowded in the list when you right click on vsfilter right now.

It's also kinda funny that Toff is helping w/ the spliter and yet TCMP's "Media Streams" doesn't work w/ it :P

Gizmo.

[Palikrovol]

Hi.

Some bugs with filter (2004-08-18).

If the mkv has subtitles and you seek at the begining of the movie it got paused and you can not seek nor play the movie any more (the same problem when the player rewind to replay or if i stop and try to play it again).
Same problem when changing audio stream (with its own switcher or the players) in the begining of the movie.
But no problem at all changing subtitles in all the movie (not even in the begining)

Something strange in the begining of the movie.

If seeking to 1minutes & 45seconds in a 53minutes & 7seconds length movie there is no problem, if seeking to 1minute & 30seconds it got paused.
(strange thing, if seeking to 48seconds no problem, if seeking to 28seconds got paused)

In a 1minute 9secons movie you can seek to 4seconds, if seek to 3seconds it got paused.


More things.


If the mkv has only one audio stream it doens't appears in the icon menu (To see it i have to change "Audio switcher" to 'on' (from 'auto') in the options. If then i change again to 'auto' it still works).

Playing the movie "mewmew-vorbis-ssa.mkv" (i think i downloaded it from www.matroska.org and liisachan made it, i am not sure) the subtitles doesn't appears (and no problems with seeking at the begining). If i use the splitter from gabest (or the last modification from Toff) the subtitles works.

Hope this helps.

And BTW, what is the difference between "Splitter.dll" and "SplitterA.dll"?

Haali, ToFF go on with the good work, this splitter is promising.
Can't you call gabest to join you two? The work by the three could be impressive.

Good night every body and happy matroska :).

[[Toff]]

Originally posted by gizmotech
It's also kinda funny that Toff is helping w/ the spliter and yet TCMP's "Media Streams" doesn't work w/ it :P
Yeah it's because there is a bug in TCMP, it's now fixed.

[[Toff]]

Originally posted by Palikrovol
Playing the movie "mewmew-vorbis-ssa.mkv" (i think i downloaded it from www.matroska.org and liisachan made it, i am not sure) the subtitles doesn't appears (and no problems with seeking at the begining). If i use the splitter from gabest (or the last modification from Toff) the subtitles works.
It's because this is a very old file which use the old ssa codec ID "S_SSA" which is now "S_TEXT/SSA".

And BTW, what is the difference between "Splitter.dll" and "SplitterA.dll"?
SplitterA.dll is a none unicode version for Win9x, I donno if it really has been tested though.

[DAvenger]

Going to test this new splitter with RadLight as soon as I get the chance (currently without Internet access). I just hope it can replace the buggy original splitter. :rolleyes:

[robUx4]

Drum Rolls.

Haali has done an incredible job and fixed all the known bugs so far.

But most of all he came up with the idea of sharing some Intro and Credits between several episodes and having them only just once in the file !!! The solution we made up is using chapters and is included in the Matroska specs. That means it will be supported widely in the future.

But it's no vaporware since you can test it with the sample on his webpage (http://haali.cs.msu.ru/mkv/). The sample was made with a modified mkvmerge, Mosu will probably include the (simple) additions soon.

Such files will still play in older splitters, but you will see the Intro and Credits only from their location in the file...

[robUx4]

PS: of course you need his latest splitter version.

[Liisachan]

Originally posted by [Toff]
It's because this is a very old file which use the old ssa codec ID "S_SSA" which is now "S_TEXT/SSA". The bad thing about this is MKVmerge does support S_SSA still now, and it does not change S_SSA into S_TEXT/SSA even if you take trouble to transmux the old file.

As a side note, some subs in that file do not play on _win98_ even if you use Gabest's Splitter that is more backward-compatible. Because some parameters needed for win98 to handle Unicode are missing in the original SSA data. (not splitters' fault)

Btw - If audio switcher mode is 'auto', I'd like to see audio swithing menu at the tray icon always if it's multiaudio. And audio swither does not seem to working properly. If the mode is 'on', all the audio tracks are checked by default, but what you actually get is the 1st audio track only. If you select the 2nd+ audio track, the audio is just gone and you cant hear anything.

[[Toff]]

Originally posted by Liisachan
Btw - If audio switcher mode is 'auto', I'd like to see audio swithing menu at the tray icon always if it's multiaudio. And audio swither does not seem to working properly. If the mode is 'on', all the audio tracks are checked by default, but what you actually get is the 1st audio track only. If you select the 2nd+ audio track, the audio is just gone and you cant hear anything.
If you're player support audio track switching then you need to use 'auto' or 'no', and switch track IN the player.
If it doesn't, you need to use 'auto' or 'yes'.

If you choose 'yes' with a player that has audio track switching support it's like you are using 2 switches one after another, both need to be on the same position for the track to work.
It's why the audio menu is hidden in 'auto' mode, cause you need to switch IN the player, otherwise you need to keep both switch synchronized.

If you choose 'no' with a player that doesn't have audio track switching support then both track will play at the same time.

[Palikrovol]

Originally posted by [Toff]
If you're player support audio track switching then you need to use 'auto' or 'no', and switch track IN the player.
If it doesn't, you need to use 'auto' or 'yes'.

If you choose 'yes' with a player that has audio track switching support it's like you are using 2 switches one after another, both need to be on the same position for the track to work.
It's why the audio menu is hidden in 'auto' mode, cause you need to switch IN the player, otherwise you need to keep both switch synchronized.

If you choose 'no' with a player that doesn't have audio track switching support then both track will play at the same time.

In WMP (no internal audio track switching) is ok when the switcher is 'auto' and i change it to 'on', but if then i close the player and start it again with the movie (now the switcher is 'on') all the audio streams are checked and are playing at the same time. If then i turn the switcher to 'auto' (without stoping) it's ok again.

[Palikrovol]

In WMP the 5.1 audio tracks (in my mkv AAC 5.1) sounds in stereo. I think it has somenthing to do with the switcher because in MPC it's ok when uses its own switcher and doesn't work when i disable the internal switcher and uses the mlv-switcher.

Using Graphedit, in the properties of the "Core AAC audio decoder" of the 5.1 audio stream it says that the format in the "XForm in" tab is 'WaveFormatEx: 48.000 KHz 0bit stereo' and the same in the "XForm out" tab. But in the 'info' tab from CoreAAC it says 'Channels: 6->6'

BTW: The chapters works very well (in WMP and MPC).

[Mosu]

Originally posted by Liisachan
The bad thing about this is MKVmerge does support S_SSA still now, and it does not change S_SSA into S_TEXT/SSA even if you take trouble to transmux the old file.

w00t!? That should not happen. It should take S_SSA and change it into S_TEST/SSA... Time for another bug hunt :)

[Mosu]

Originally posted by Mosu
Time for another bug hunt :)

*splat* got it. http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/win32/pre/mkvtoolnix-0.9.4-build20040820-2.rar

(As with all my current builds you need either Toff's fixed version of Gabest's splitter or even better Haali's splitter for the resulting files to be playable properly.)

[filewalker]

Now I tested latest version of the splitter and the patched VSFilter in combination with Zoomplayer (The splitter's stream switcher is set to "no")

It works realy nice!!:) No problems, now.

Fast loading time, track names are shown correctly (as written in MKVmerge), chapters are aslo working, FF and rewind are also working in a fast way.... no bug to report.

Congratultions!

Cu filewalker

[Palikrovol]

The WMP bug with all streams playing at the same time when switcher is 'on' is solved :).

Great.

5.1 AAC still sounds in stereo in WMP.

Go on and congratulations.

[wiflye81]

My question may be stupid but is there any possibilities to test the new features under linux ?
I will test the new features under windows soon.
Thx for your great work.

[gizmotech]

Question. Has anyone tested the splitter w/ an incomplete/corrupted file?

Just to confirm that playback is still functioning correctly, and that it isn't loading fonts that are incomplete/corrupted at playback on S_TEXT/SSA encodes.

Gizmo.

[Liisachan]

Originally posted by Mosu
(As with all my current builds you need either Toff's fixed version of Gabest's splitter or even better Haali's splitter for the resulting files to be playable properly.)

If you mean 64-bit float things, Gabest's new filter at guliverkli (http://sourceforge.net/projects/guliverkli/) (1.0.2.4) is ok too, afaik. ( Gabest's 1.0.2.4 also supports TTA_1, and skippy audio around 35sec has been fixed, seemingly. )

As for the alt splitter, supporting S_SSA is not very important because that codec id is just scarcely used. But I hope, generally, all the backward compatibility will be respected as long as that is technically possible.

[robUx4]

Originally posted by gizmotech
Question. Has anyone tested the splitter w/ an incomplete/corrupted file?

Just to confirm that playback is still functioning correctly, and that it isn't loading fonts that are incomplete/corrupted at playback on S_TEXT/SSA encodes.

Gizmo.

There is a problem with corrupted/incomplete files as of now. For me (and all P2P users) it's a major issue, and Haali is going to have a look.

I don't think it can load fonts for the moment.

[gizmotech]

It is loading fonts atm. Which is why I brought it up.

Gizmo.

[robUx4]

Yeah, Haali told me about that :)

Other news: spyder has managed to mux MPEG2 in Matroska natively and MPEG1 should work. Haali will add support soon and the latest filter from Gabest should be able to read it.

We will also work on a Menu system very similar to the one of DVDs during the coming weeks. It should then be possible to transmux a whole DVD into Matroska without losing most features, if any.

[RBF]

robUx4

The new filter is made as file parser, to this it does not support playing mkv - files written on XCD (Mode2/Form2 CD).
Whether it is possible to make also the new filter as splitter?

[robUx4]

Haali prefer not to do it a splitter.
But he'll try to make it work with XCDs :)

[RBF]

Originally posted by robUx4
But he'll try to make it work with XCDs :)

It will be wonderful!

[spyder]

MPEG1 and 2 support in the filter now work perfectly :)

[Liisachan]

Originally posted by spyder
MPEG1 and 2 support in the filter now work perfectly :) I'd like to test that too, but I dont know how I can mux MPEG1/2 into MKV on Windows. Could you please explain that? I tried GraphEdit but my MatroskaMuxer doesnt like to eat MPEG vid...tyia.

[spyder]

Liisachan: check the MPEG2 in MKV thread.

[Liisachan]

Originally posted by spyder
Liisachan: check the MPEG2 in MKV thread. Aah! OK, thank you. I missed it.

Edit: Tested .m2v->mkv->mkv. Worked. Seeking is awesome, even in a big file (like 2-3 GBytes)

[robUx4]

Did you notice that the MPEG files are smaller when put in MKV ?
:D

[dcoder]

RealAudio (A_REAL/COOK) inside mkv doesn't work. AFAIK there is only gabest's RealAudio Decoder that can handle this, but it connects only to MEDIASUBTYPE_COOK, while haali's Splitter provides only the wFormatTag.

Is there any special reason writing this new Splitter as a Source Filter instead of a Parser/Splitter? IMHO a Splitter would be more suitable, since it allows to connect from any available Source (File/HTTP/XCD..)

[Kurtnoise]

Does anyone have tested the new experimental Haali filters (HaaliSubtitler & HaaliVobsubDecoder) ??

I tested them but without success for me...:(

[thoralf]

I finally got around to test the new splitter ... It looks promising.

Anyway, a few remarks:

- while the files play fine from the beginning, they start to stutter really badly after searching
- switching audio takes a long time and doesn't work at all sometimes (silence ...)
- the internal subtitler eats cpu for breakfast ... it also doesn't work with zoomplayer (produces garbage), but this is probably an issue with zp's internal switcher
- jumping to chapters works perfectly

I tested with several mkvs, all of them with several audio and subtitle streams, the latter were vobsubs. I registered both HaaliMatroskaSplitter.ax and HaaliVobsubDecoder.ax and unregistered the plain Matroska splitter and VSfilter.ax

I wouldn't consider the splitter as stable yet, but it looks promising :-)

[thoralf]

just as a matter of interest - has the development if this splitter stopped? That would be quite sad ...

[ChristianHJW]

Stopped ?

If all goes well, this splitter will allow us to introduce the matroska menue system. Haali is modifying it heavily to be able to handle segmented files, being a primary condition to support our menue system.

In the meantime, robux4 is about to finish his DVDXtractor tool. We released an alpha version already, but not here as robux4 is currently not allowed to post on Doom9, and there is no sense in having a thread when the main developer cant post to it. Mosu has started to implement muxing of the XML files outputted by DVDXtractor into mkvmerge.

All in all we estimate that the whole process will take another 2 - 3 months, and hopefully until the end of the year ( maybe Christmas ;) ) matroska files can be made and played with menues .....