DVD Rebuilder (CCE One-Click Beta v0.46) Comments and Suggestions

[Joergen]

jdobbs: I noticed the encode button now says Pause instead of Abort? Can we now pause.. reboot and continue at any time from the last completed section? (this is the dream).

I guess you forgot to mention it in the changelog.

[philos31]

JDobbs: First of all, great job, I am allready converting a 4:3 DVD 2 16:9, this was something I wanted for a long time.

But now a question, and maybe it's a stupid question, but the again I am used to be called stupid :)

As RB is now not only a backup tool, but starting to get more and more a conversion tool also, would it be possible to also convert NTSC -> PAL and PAL -> NTSC.

If so, could you put it on the bottom of your list, you know, the 216 pages list with requests :D

[nimbles]

hey nice work jdobbs- i take it you've spent your easter "hols" doing this? Thanks! its very greatly appreciated.

Is the 4:3->16:9 conversion assuming that the 16:9 picture has only black bars top and bottom, this copy of goodfellas i have has additional bars on either side, so i'm guessing if i ran it through your 16:9 converter i'd end up with a picture with a far smaller border (but a border never the less)

I mean once i crop the black bars top, bottom, left and right, i'm left with 660x376 and the picture isn't even properly centred so my resize filter looks like this:
LanczosResize(720,576,24,102,672,384)- (assuming i need to keep the dimensions of the picture thats cropped multiples of 16?)

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by nimbles
hey nice work jdobbs- i take it you've spent your easter "hols" doing this? Thanks! its very greatly appreciated.

Is the 4:3->16:9 conversion assuming that the 16:9 picture has only black bars top and bottom, this copy of goodfellas i have has additional bars on either side, so i'm guessing if i ran it through your 16:9 converter i'd end up with a picture with a far smaller border (but a border never the less)

I mean once i crop the black bars top, bottom, left and right, i'm left with 660x376 and the picture isn't even properly centred so my resize filter looks like this:
LanczosResize(720,576,24,102,672,384)- (assuming i need to keep the dimensions of the picture thats cropped multiples of 16?) The original had borders of 24 on each side??? That is really kludged up... is this a factory disc?

[jdobbs]

Also -- if you are doing resizing, please download 0.34 (just posted). I made a masking error in 0.33 and was misconfiguring the IFO file. It only matters in the REBUILD, so no one should have to run a lengthy job all over again.

[nimbles]

Originally posted by jdobbs
The original had borders of 24 on each side??? That is really kludged up... is this a factory disc?

yup its a retail disc- goodfellas (r2, pal) i think was the first ever dvd i bought- flipper, single layered, the rubbishest case you have ever seen, and a load of bumf on the back about how great the extras were, all there was scene selection, and a couple of stills explaining the careers of the main actors/ director in the film :D

hopefull there is a remastered single sided version on the way soon :rolleyes: fingers crossed.

worst thing is from experimenting it seems the picture isn't even centred correctly :eek:

man these holywood studios have come along way!! :D

[psdos]

why RB v0.33 only give me warning in ilvu film and RB v0.34 say me dont support this options?

[rui]

Originally posted by Joergen
jdobbs: I noticed the encode button now says Pause instead of Abort? Can we now pause.. reboot and continue at any time from the last completed section? (this is the dream).

I guess you forgot to mention it in the changelog.

Oh, version .34 now says ABORT :(

Oh well, when it's ready (the pause possibility), it' ready.

Good work :)

[quantum]

@jdobbs - I think we could all benefit from a separate read-only (or locked) thread (preferrably sticky) where you could post the latest info about updates and whatever else you feel is news-worthy.

[Joergen]

Or just change the topic of the original "one click beta." thread to include the latest number.

I'm just about to burn my latest 3pass encode. Toes crossed (fingers are operating the computer)!

[nwg]

I also think there shold be a locked FAQ thread. I keep seeing the same questions again and again.

Things like why does it only take a few seconds - not using eclCCE and why does it show only 2 passes when I select 3 - counts the VAF as a pass etc.

[djan]

Originally posted by nwg
I also think there shold be a locked FAQ thread. I keep seeing the same questions again and again.

Things like why does it only take a few seconds - not using eclCCE and why does it show only 2 passes when I select 3 - counts the VAF as a pass etc. Are you using CCE Basic ?

[auszeus]

Where is version 34, when you click the download link you get the April 10, 33 version ??

[nwg]

Try deleting your cache or try another browser. I had the same problem with Firebird browser, I kept getting the old version. I used IE browser and it worked.

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by rui
Oh, version .34 now says ABORT :(

Oh well, when it's ready (the pause possibility), it' ready.

Good work :) Whoops... I was working that and decide it wasn't ready to post... I forgot to change the caption back!

[Rombaldi]

Originally posted by jdobbs
The original had borders of 24 on each side??? That is really kludged up... is this a factory disc?

It's not necessarly wrong. Some films are not EXACTLY 16:9, for instance some Disney's are 1.66:1 instead of 1.85:1 (16:9) which
WILL give you (roughly) a 24 pixel 'gutter' on each side. DON'T REMOVE THEM else you end up with people stretched WIDE.

Assorted aspects ratios (but they ALL have to fit in a 16:9 'hole' when being anamorphized on a DVD, so additional black bars WILL happen on anything but 1.85:1).

Cinerama - 3.0:1, 2.77:1, 2.75:1, and 2.59:1
VistaVision - 1.96:1, 1.85:1, and 1.66:1
Todd-AO -2.35:1 and 2.20:1
Ultra Panavision 70 - 2.76:1
Panavision - 2.35:1 and 1.85:1
Super 35 -2.35:1

ADDENDUM: The only thing I can think of that you might want to add/modify to the 4:3 > 16:9 logic is a 'fine' adjustment that let's you slide the 16:9 'window' up/down to compensate for discs that may not have the actual picture 'centered' in the 4:3 frame, (ie. instead of cropping 60 from the top/bottom, it needs to be cropped 58/62) or you have a 2.35:1 picture and you crop to the 'top' of the 16:9 window and have one black bar at the bottom vs top/bottom (nice place for subtitles to go..) so instead of 60/60 you crop 120/0

[Oldeman]

How about an option to save/print the status log on errors ie 4,5 9 etc.

If you are running minimized, and get the error all is lost. Maybe thaere is a way to recover log?

For your debugging info.

Thaks for almost great program. It getting there.

Happy Easter...

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by Rombaldi
It's not necessarly wrong. Some films are not EXACTLY 16:9, for instance some Disney's are 1.66:1 instead of 1.85:1 (16:9) which
WILL give you (roughly) a 24 pixel 'gutter' on each side. DON'T REMOVE THEM else you end up with people stretched WIDE.

Assorted aspects ratios (but they ALL have to fit in a 16:9 'hole' when being anamorphized on a DVD, so additional black bars WILL happen on anything but 1.85:1).

Cinerama - 3.0:1, 2.77:1, 2.75:1, and 2.59:1
VistaVision - 1.96:1, 1.85:1, and 1.66:1
Todd-AO -2.35:1 and 2.20:1
Ultra Panavision 70 - 2.76:1
Panavision - 2.35:1 and 1.85:1
Super 35 -2.35:1

ADDENDUM: The only thing I can think of that you might want to add/modify to the 4:3 > 16:9 logic is a 'fine' adjustment that let's you slide the 16:9 'window' up/down to compensate for discs that may not have the actual picture 'centered' in the 4:3 frame, (ie. instead of cropping 60 from the top/bottom, it needs to be cropped 58/62) or you have a 2.35:1 picture and you crop to the 'top' of the 16:9 window and have one black bar at the bottom vs top/bottom (nice place for subtitles to go..) so instead of 60/60 you crop 120/0 There is never a good reason for 48 pixels being removed from the sides. The width should be fixed and the height adjusted for other resolutions. Good suggestion.

[Knocks]

Tried the latest version and still got buffer overflow #0004 at the beginning of Stage III (copying unmodified files). Will be patiently waiting as the work progresses.

[JDay]

I tried the deinterlace option on a film source (detected as ntsc interlace by dvd2avi) and on a television video source. FieldDeinterlace() looked fine on the video source but caused "ghosting" on the film source. I edited the avs's to FieldDeinterlace(blend=false) and this fixed the ghosting on the film source (looks the same as with telecide), with no noticable difference on the video source. Maybe set blend to false as default or put a toggle in the options screen?

[Stive]

Sorry...wrong thread

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by JDay
I tried the deinterlace option on a film source (detected as ntsc interlace by dvd2avi) and on a television video source. FieldDeinterlace() looked fine on the video source but caused "ghosting" on the film source. I edited the avs's to FieldDeinterlace(blend=false) and this fixed the ghosting on the film source (looks the same as with telecide), with no noticable difference on the video source. Maybe set blend to false as default or put a toggle in the options screen? I personally almost never deinterlace, so I'm not the expert there -- is that generally the setting everyone uses? If so that's an easy fix.

[nwg]

I have just made the first release of The X Files(non anamorphic 2.35:1) movie into anamorphic 2.35:1.

It has worked really well and so easy to do. I have never been able to do it before. It has coped with the menus as well.

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by nwg
I have just made the first release of The X Files(non anamorphic 2.35:1) movie into anamorphic 2.35:1.

It has worked really well and so easy to do. I have never been able to do it before. It has coped with the menus as well. Cool.

[quantum]

I would use blend=false every time on fielddeinterlace. Otherwise it can produce the ghosting effect which is an overlay (blend) of two frames. With blend=false you end up with duplicated (not blended) frames which looks okay when played for some reason.

All the more reason to hide this feature. It adds complexity, possibly introduces video probelms, slows encoding, and doesn't do anything useful. Except maybe fix a specific TFF/BFF issue? Unsure about that one.

[bobwillis]

Hi jdobbs,

Just looking at a recent rebuilder.ecl file, and I see: seq_endcode=0, it was regarded amongst us DVD2DVD guys, that the recommended setting was seq_encode=1; I just wondered if it would help with the stuttering issues (just a guess).

Regards,
Bob

[JDay]

Originally posted by quantum
All the more reason to hide this feature. It adds complexity, possibly introduces video probelms, slows encoding, and doesn't do anything useful. Except maybe fix a specific TFF/BFF issue? Unsure about that one.

I've been using QuEnc which seems to produce progressive output regardless of input. The deinterlacing fixes this issue until QuEnc encodes interlaced material.

[DDogg]

Originally posted by jdobbs
The idea is that if I record the flags and ignore the rate (make it constant), and then reinsert the flags verbatim on rebuild, I will have a perfect representation of the original (even if it changes to and from telecine every few GOPs -- as some do). I set the framerate back to its correct value at REBUILD also. The only thing that is preserved in the .D2V is TFF -- just to make sure I don't get field shift during encoding. I would be fibbing if I said I really get this, especially on pure ntsc interlace, but it does not really matter as it works as advertised (damn well so far). Congrats on a new concept. As to creating a conventional d2vs, seems unneeded as they still allow accurate prediction which again I don't quite get, but it works.

I have some data for you:

Source 720x480 ntsc interlaced from "Good Fences"

All trailers combined and sampled seems to show, duh, that 1/2 D1 takes exactly half the bitrate to hold same quality. You might want to play with halving the bitrate on any 1/2D1 and banking the reserve back over to the main. Maybe just for the hell of it to see if you can maintain size control. That would nearly be too simple, wouldn't it? Results for 56,556 frames:

Q32 derived bitrate, full res - 3598 kbps
Q32 derived bitrate, 1/2D1 - 1790 kbps

[dancis]

with v0.34 i am getting a runtime error '9': subscript out of range everytime.

what am i doing wrong?? never had this problem with the previous versions

[quantum]

Originally posted by DDogg
I would be fibbing if I said I really get this, especially on pure ntsc interlace, but it does not really matter as it works as advertised (damn well so far). Congrats on a new concept. As to I don't get it myself, but if this works, it's big. Really big. Problems with telecided and mixed interlaced / telecided video has been a big nagging issue with going the CCE route from the beginning. Most of the time you don't even know you have a problem until you see jerky movement in the middle of your otherwise perfect backup. This has driven me to use transcoders in many cases since that way you avoid the risk of telecide and field order problems. Hats off to jdobbs and I hope he really has spun some magic to fix all this.

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by bobwillis
Hi jdobbs,

Just looking at a recent rebuilder.ecl file, and I see: seq_endcode=0, it was regarded amongst us DVD2DVD guys, that the recommended setting was seq_encode=1; I just wondered if it would help with the stuttering issues (just a guess).

Regards,
Bob Actually it was recently changed to 0 after someone else advised that having it set to 1 could be the cause...

I'm pretty confident 0 is right...

[DDogg]

dancis, this thread is for comments and suggestions. I think you would get a better result if you would post in the bug report (+30) thread and give details like:

Source - What title and region, ntsc or pal? How ripped? File mode or mounted ISO. Encoder used? Post log. See the first page of the bug report thread for a list of things jdobbs asked for. Good luck with your problem.

[quantum]

@jdobbs: I think we're getting ready to let you start working on the interleaved multi-angle stuff :-)

My Matrix 1 disk is sitting on the shelf eagerly waiting to be tested.

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by DDogg
I would be fibbing if I said I really get this, especially on pure ntsc interlace, but it does not really matter as it works as advertised (damn well so far). Congrats on a new concept. As to creating a conventional d2vs, seems unneeded as they still allow accurate prediction which again I don't quite get, but it works.

I have some data for you:

Source 720x480 ntsc interlaced from "Good Fences"

All trailers combined and sampled seems to show, duh, that 1/2 D1 takes exactly half the bitrate to hold same quality. You might want to play with halving the bitrate on any 1/2D1 and banking the reserve back over to the main. Maybe just for the hell of it to see if you can maintain size control. That would nearly be too simple, wouldn't it? Results for 56,556 frames:

Q32 derived bitrate, full res - 3598 kbps
Q32 derived bitrate, 1/2D1 - 1790 kbps Hey -- that's good information to know! Maybe I'll add a single setting that makes all extras Half-D1 and gives all that extra bandwidth to the movie.

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by quantum
@jdobbs: I think we're getting ready to let you start working on the interleaved multi-angle stuff :-)

My Matrix 1 disk is sitting on the shelf eagerly waiting to be tested. The next release will support BOV... then I'll get started on interleaving.

[DDogg]

Originally posted by jdobbs -
Hey -- that's good information to know! Maybe I'll add a single setting that makes all extras Half-D1 and gives all that extra bandwidth to the movie. Yeah, might be a good first iteration when you are in playing around mode. Couple of convolutions occur to me - ISpy=16:9 and 4:3, plus the trailers - Would be useful for "Video Title Sets" window to show AR and length. Maybe allow a right click "Boost Bitrate" for VTS_X or Xs? Everything else gets 1/2D1 with bitrate halved with bitrate balance distributed to selected Boost/s. That last just a thought that popped up, dunno if workable for you.

[quantum]

I would still prefer to lower the extra's bitrate by softening, or blurring. You can accomplish this by reducing the low pass filter in CCE or use the avisynth blur feature. You can then lower the bitrate to whatever you want, and the output will be nearly identical to half d1 without any worries of incompatibility.

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by quantum
I would still prefer to lower the extra's bitrate by softening, or blurring. You can accomplish this by reducing the low pass filter in CCE or use the avisynth blur feature. You can then lower the bitrate to whatever you want, and the output will be nearly identical to half d1 without any worries of incompatibility. What settings would give you comparable bitrate settings? I'd like to try it. (AVISYNTH and CCE)

[Stive]

Originally posted by bobwillis
Hi jdobbs,

Just looking at a recent rebuilder.ecl file, and I see: seq_endcode=0, it was regarded amongst us DVD2DVD guys, that the recommended setting was seq_encode=1; I just wondered if it would help with the stuttering issues (just a guess).

Regards,
Bob

I'm desparate. Is this something I can change? If so, where and how? I've been unable to get away from the chapter stutter.

Nevermind...I found the file and will try it?

[wmansir]

Originally posted by quantum
I would still prefer to lower the extra's bitrate by softening, or blurring. You can accomplish this by reducing the low pass filter in CCE or use the avisynth blur feature. You can then lower the bitrate to whatever you want, and the output will be nearly identical to half d1 without any worries of incompatibility.

If you test this method out (compared to half-d1) please be sure to include interlaced material. I find Half-D1 perticularly useful on it (and a most featurette/extras are interlaced).

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by Stive
I'm desparate. Is this something I can change? If so, where and how? I've been unable to get away from the chapter stutter.

Nevermind...I found the file and will try it? It won't help. Go back and look at it a couple versions ago and it was set to 1...

[quantum]

For CCE, under the quality button, reduce the low pass filter from 8 (default) to 4. For some reason lower is stronger. This softens the video and 4 is fairly strong. You can get away with 1500 bitrate with this and get watchable video. I don't know if this number compares exactly with half d1, but I remember spending several hours and figuring out you can achieve the same end result this way.

To do it with avisynth, add blur(1) or double it this way:
blur(1)
blur(1)

You can't do blur(2)

While all this is entertaining to experiment with, it's probably better to just encode in CCE the regular way even at 1500. This way you get sharp video for low motion scenes, like interviews, and you get some blocks in high motion scenes. The other way (either half d1 or softened), you get everything blurry.

Still, options are nice. Some people prefer soft video with fewer macro blocks, so I'd be in favor of allowing both techniques.

[DDogg]

Originally posted by quantum -
I would still prefer to lower the extra's bitrate by softening, or blurring. You can accomplish this by reducing the low pass filter in CCE or use the avisynth blur feature. You can then lower the bitrate to whatever you want, and the output will be nearly identical to half d1 without any worries of incompatibility. Compression filters introduce much complexity for the in-experienced user, plus it is a religious issue. I had thought about asking jdobbs to consider a temporary and hidden INI item to trigger an import line to import a users personal choice of compression filters. Doing it manually is an awful grind.

From a personal standpoint, I agree [edit-change] compression filters can be useful, but I've got a feeling it might be contrary to the dvd-rb target design. Maybe jdobbs could comment on that if he has time.

I've got some good fresh data on this subject using the Undot() and Deen() combo, but don't want to start anything way OT -- Just consider an FYI -
56,556 frames 4:3 True Interlaced
Q32 derived bitrate, full res - 3598 kbps Original rate
Q32 derived bitrate, full res w/filters - 2923 kbps 19% total reduction
Q32 derived bitrate, 1/2D1 - 1790 kbps 50% total reduction
Q32 derived bitrate, 1/2D1 w/filters - 1645 kbps 54% total reduction

[Stive]

Originally posted by jdobbs
It won't help. Go back and look at it a couple versions ago and it was set to 1...

Ok. Thanks. I'll try something else.

[[BMC]]

Thanks for adding the field deinterlacing option. If possible could you modify it to add (blend=false) and/or use tomsmocomp.

[Redbacks]

I could to PAL to NTSC and back... AVISYNTH can do anything.

I'd really appreciate this feature. This program, (DVD-RB) is by far the best little tool in my tool bag. Keep up the great work. Greatly appreciated by those still learning :)

[philos31]

Originally posted by jdobbs

I could to PAL to NTSC and back... AVISYNTH can do anything.

Yes Please, I allready asked this one time, but felt stupid to ask...
But I think this will be a lot of work, with 3:2 pullback, and the audio conversion etc.... :scared:
But, if you are up to it, I would appreciate it....

PS: Going to donate today,(Not only for the NTSC->PAL conv.) The Program is now stable enough for me to do some real work with it...
So I think you have the right to some of my money ;)

[jdobbs]

A new version (0.35) has been posted with a couple of bug fixes. See the first message of this thread.

Please also note, that per a suggestion I am changing the title of this thread each time I post an update so you can easily see it from the "One Click DVD backup solutions" page.

[Stive]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jdobbs
[B]A new version (0.35) has been posted with a couple of bug fixes. See the first message of this thread.

Tried to download it, but says invalid attachment.:(

[philos31]

Yup, get the same message:

Invalid attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the webmaster