GUIDE: Stereo to 5-Channel Surround

[Eye of Horus]

removed

[Sycho]

can this new method be used with the equations from this page for better results on Dolby Surround material http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=60331

[bitsnbytes]

Curiosty bit me so I downloaded Besplit.
Using commandline


BeSplit -core( -input Gene.wav -prefix C:\channel -type wav -demux )

Rendered me 6 wav files named channels 1-6

but they were 44,100 so i resampled in cooledit to 48000.
44,100 would not play on my system

I have to say this was a guess but I went with this:

channel 1 = Front Left
channel 2 = Center
Channel 3 = Front Right
Channel 4 = Surround Left
Channel 5 = Surround Right
Channel 6 = LFE -empty
Its late at night so I wasnt able to fully test
or the wife would be pissed heh

but all speakers seemed to render a audible level
equal to each other.

further test tomarrow.

Oh yeah if my channel mapping is wrong please post

Thanks

[kempfand]

@ bitsnbytes:

If you use BeSplit, be aware that the audio is not normalized, so you have to turn up the volume. But in principle, it should not matter :)

Using BeSplit is fine (do it also sometimes), but the correct channel ordering for this method (i.e. the Pentagon-rig with Emigrator) is as follows:

channel 1 = Center
channel 2 = Front Left
Channel 3 = Surround Left
Channel 4 = Surround Right
Channel 5 = Front Right
Channel 6 = LFE -empty

Andreas

[downloada]

hi,

i found a way to get an lfe-channel out of the 5 channels generated by emigrator. while searching for freeware vst-plugins, i found a filter called "HNM_filter". it is a low-, band and high-pass-filter.
download it here (http://www.niederma.de/freeware/Audio/VST/HNM_Filter.zip).

i integrated it into the processing chain as shown on this picture (http://downloada.in-berlin.de/hnmfilter.gif). as it is only a 1-channel-filter, you need 5 instances in our case.

i saved the settings to a file which you can get here (http://downloada.in-berlin.de/hnm_lowpass80.fxb). if it doesn't work for you, here are the values you need to fill in, from top to bottom:
filter: 0.000
cutoff: 0.023 (kind of a weird value, but the statusbar tells me that it means 81Hz)
resonance:0.500 (the standard value)
slope: 0.000
inamp: 0.500
outamp: 0.500
but you can just load the file i give you ("load preset" in the options of the filter), but you have to load it for EVERY instance of the filter. of course you can change the cutoff-frequency and experiment with the other values (but i don't know what they exactly do, the readme is kind of "short"). also i don't know what the second output-pin does, i have to test that.

another suggestion: couldn't we just rearrange the links between the output of emigrator and the input of the recorder so that besweet demuxes them with the correct names?

cu

[downloada]

hi,

i couldn't do a real comparison between the result with and without lfe, but the short test i did sounded promising, so i thought i'd share my discovery with others so they can test for themselves.

about the lfe-frequency: AFAIR 120hz is the THX-guideline but a 120hz-lfe has got too much middletone-frequencies in it. and who cares for thx anyways? it's after all a specification for movie-playback, that's why thx-speakers aren't the best at playing music. if i had bigger speakers, i would set the cutoff even lower, like 40hz or 30hz so that only the real deep bass is being played on the sub. but i think that's a matter of taste. and my receiver doesn't create an lfe on multichannel-input (only if i let it downmix it to stereo and then use pl2, but that would be non-sense), so this is the only way i can get bass on my system.

edit: i almost forgot: thanks for the great guide, it makes the whole thing so much easier and gives great results!

cu

[kempfand]

downloada: Thanks also from my side for the LEF-option. Although I have no LFE, we thought about adding it to the method.

However, there are a few reports already on the topic which advise not to use LFE on decoded b-files (= 'Ambisonic' files).

I'm not saying that results will be bad, and I'm keen to learn about your judgement after you compared the 'without vs with', I'm just saying 'careful'.

Also, none of the First and Second Order Ambisonic Decoding Equations (http://www.muse.demon.co.uk/ref/speakers.html) suggest a LFE.

As said: We are very keen to learn how it compares.

Kind regards,

Andreas

[KpeX]

@Andreas and EoH

Thanks for your work.

1. Worked fine for me, I used the channel mapping as suggested in the first post of this thread by EoH, is that correct?

2. I might have missed this somewhere, but at what bit depth is the editing done?

3. Interesting fill effect. First impression is that it gives a very even, consistent channel mix across all channels. To me the major drawback is renaming those channels :sly:. I will definitely have to add an LFE channel :D for my musical taste; haven't experimented with that yet.

Cheers,

[DSPguru]

BeSweet's naming convention is :
Channel 1->"FL"
Channel 2->"FR"
Channel 3->"C"
Channel 4->"LFE"
Channel 5->"SL"
Channel 6->"SR"


A. i can add another switch with different namings.
in the meantime, you can remap the channels in the graph, or simply make a nice batchfile that does the renamings.
B. what bug did you encouter with BeSweet v1.5 ?
v1.4 is good and stable, but i still want to know about v1.5 bugs.
C. i believe the guide should include info about using BeSweet for encoding that wave directly to dts. (kempfand :) ?)
D. how about publishing your "stereo2surround.bidule" ? wouldn't it save some precious time to other users ?

[bitsnbytes]

Not Bad at all.

Just listned to jimmy wale out along the watchtower, with the addition of the 6th channel LFE set @ 60hz as my sub is set at that crossover. I made one small adjustment to the
http://home.wanadoo.nl/appyhappy/18.jpg
i moved the centre slider up about a 1/4 inch, and slid vol up to top. I used besweet to demux and upsample to 48000. and surcode to dts at 24/48. jimmy seemed to be singing from the center
as guitars seemed to wale out the lefts n rights.

The other method I use doesnt generate as much from the center.

questions:I thought one of the goals was to work in 32bit mode.. I take it besweet and besplit only handle 16 bit?
Is there a alternative?

The real bugger to watch is the bprocedit it seems to keep my fist dial setting but the third dial is always default to the left a bit.

volume is down from original is that the normalizing? would like to remove it.


OK lets Rock!

[kempfand]

@ DSPGuru:

A. you can remap the channels in the graph That is indeed the most easy & elegant solution :) Why didn't we think at that before :devil: :o :devil: Anyhow: Big thanks ;)

B. BeSweet -core( -input In-6ch.wav -output Out_ -type wav -6ch ) -ota( -G max ) -ssrc( --rate 48000 )
For BeSweet v1.5b20, this produces garbled (clicking) mono-wav's on 2 XP machines I tested. Same EoH & bitsnbytes. It works for v1.4.

C. Will do, as soon as we understand better why above (B) command-line works only for BeSeet v1.4 for some of us.

D. I believe in learning by doing, but point taken :)


@ bitsnbytes & KpeX:

Doing the B-Proc/P-Pan/Emigrator steps @ 32 bits gives slightly better results in our ears, with an emphasis on 'slightly' (i.e. one has to really carefully listen, and know the piece well).

The Ambisonic-VST even work at 64 bit, and the author suggested to use the highest possible bit-resolution.

In order to keep the method 'workable', we thought the current 16-bit is a good start and avoids 1st going into an application or use tools such as SOX. I personally do it @ 32 bit.

The real bugger to watch is the bprocedit it seems to keep my fist dial setting but the third dial is always default to the left a bit. --> Watch out for upcoming versions of Bidule, which hopefully will fix that (i.e. settings are kept).

Kind regards,

Andreas

[downloada]

hi,

i just got up, didn't do my listening comparison yet.
but i looked at the emigrator settings a little bit and i saw that there's a preset called "surround" which i think should be ideal for most users because it has the same speaker-arrangement as most home theaters have today.
i will definitely include that in my comparison but the problem is that i don't exactly know the channel-mapping of that preset. do the numbers near the speakers in emigrator represent the output-pins from left to right? then it would be easy.

cu

[downloada]

hi,

ok, just compared the different settings. my test track was "trinity dream" from the matrix reloaded score mainly because it's rather short (1:56) but not too short and because i just had it ripped on my hdd ;)

on my setup, the pentagon with lfe sounded best to my ears. it has a wide sound stage and the bass is as good as i thought. although i could get my receiver to create an lfe out of the 5.0-signal, it wasn't as good as the dedicated lfe.
you're right about the surround-rig, but it's always better to hear it with your own ears. it sounded sort of compressed and too small to me (i can't really express it in english as it isn't my native language either).

so, in the future i will use the guide with my lfe-addition and be happy with the results :)

cu

[daphy]

Hi,

I´ve done so much testings and comparisons between the SAD5.1, Kpex and this method (->EOH whats the new name for this :D) and for me ambisonic system wins the match :rolleyes:
The addon of the LFE is definitivly a must have because it´s really the bass what misses.

For those who want to save their time I´ve uploaded the complete VSTPlugins (the same as in the guide + lfe patch) (http://needfulthings.webhop.org/) in one file.
Start archiv and extract the files in the right folder (maybe you have to change the location from C:\Programme\... in C:\Program Files\... etc.)
The only thing left to do is to scan the VSTPlugins with Plogue Bidule and load the settings!!!


@ EOH

really fine work and even for newbies an essential recomondation :D ;) :D
One question - is it possible to make Plogue Bidule faster? Now it works only in real time -> the CPU usages is less then ~12%
much more posibilities with those machines nowadays ;)


CYA Daphy :cool:

[kempfand]

whats the new name for this [method]
- Visual Ambisonics :D :cool:
- Hitchhiker's Guide to Ambisonics :p

Andreas

[Mug Funky]

holy crap! eye of horus, you've given me something to do in idle moments... i love this stuff!

right now i'm listening to Portishead's "Humming" off 180g vinyl, routed through bidule and simultaneously outputting to a 5ch wav.

this is the awesomest thing since i got a 16 bit sound card in 1993!

thanks everyone who contributed... if i find some sweet settings, i'll let y'all know.

[daphy]

Hi folks,

found a bug in this routine, don´t know exactly what program produces it:

after the besweet part you have single 6 wavs (I use the DTS transcoding into 44.1 khz). And sometimes, I don´t now why I got a clipping noise in each channel. First time I explored this problem to late while sitting in my favorit chair in front of my stereo - whooom :scared:

This noise only takes 1~2 seconds and then the normal sound starts - but it could be enough for your speakers - mine survived this attack (gladly)

Bug search:

I tried the new Besweet 1.5 B20 and the old 1.4 -> I´m shure this can´t be the reason , also Surcode isn´t guilty because the 6 mono files already have this damage

last but not least it must be Bidule itself! I´ve got this error two times EOH shurely not, so maybe it depends on the lfe transcoding :confused:

I´ll do some more testing for finding the bug!

One thing I noticed last time I got this error the transcoding with Bidule hang at the beginning -> about one second ;) after this it works normal...

As advise:

check at least one of the mono files with a WAV-editor like cool edit. If there is an error in this file at the beginning transcode it again.

CYA Daphy

[kempfand]

Beware!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I experienced this once, an it was at the very beginning (timeline) of the soundfile. Looks like your's also at the beginning of the track.

If it's in the beginning, a quick fix is to add the 'Sound Mapper' to the Bidule layout (see section 8: tipps & tricks), so you will instantly hear it during the 'transcode'.

My impression was that it had sth to do with the overall 'interplay' of the sound-drivers, sound-SW etc on the system, but this was just a guess.

Regards,

Andreas

[daphy]

thx for the suggestion

I added this profile to the layouts
(see the connections) (http://needfulthings.webhop.org/)
If this is the only problem - nevermind :D

Fine toy!
I´m wondering to make a DVD instead of many CDs.
What format (WAV in 44.1 or 48 khz) are needed to make a Audio DVD on DTS?

CYA Daphy

[SallyDog]

Originally posted by daphy
Hi folks,

found a bug in this routine, don´t know exactly what program produces it:

after the besweet part you have single 6 wavs (I use the DTS transcoding into 44.1 khz). And sometimes, I don´t now why I got a clipping noise in each channel. First time I explored this problem to late while sitting in my favorit chair in front of my stereo - whooom :scared:

This noise only takes 1~2 seconds and then the normal sound starts - but it could be enough for your speakers - mine survived this attack (gladly)

Error.gif (http://www.daphy.de/ambisonic/error.gif)

Bug search:

I tried the new Besweet 1.5 B20 and the old 1.4 -> I´m shure this can´t be the reason , also Surcode isn´t guilty because the 6 mono files already have this damage

last but not least it must be Bidule itself! I´ve got this error two times EOH shurely not, so maybe it depends on the lfe transcoding :confused:

I´ll do some more testing for finding the bug!

One thing I noticed last time I got this error the transcoding with Bidule hang at the beginning -> about one second ;) after this it works normal...

As advise:

check at least one of the mono files with a WAV-editor like cool edit. If there is an error in this file at the beginning transcode it again.

CYA Daphy


I had the same problem, was driving me nuts. Then I realized that Bidule was not maintaining the "stereo2surround" default setting. I solved the problem by making sure to load the "S2S" setting at the beginning of each session. Only takes an extra 2 seconds. Maybe this is causing your problem too.

SallyDog

[erymax]

Can you post a link for the latest version ?

thanks



erymax

[daphy]

@ erymax

read the posting right from the start
;)

CYA Daphy

[erymax]

@daphy

thanks, I've got it now, sorry for my mistake.

erymax

[Sycho]

is there any way at all of using these equations for converting stereo to b-format:

Dolby MP:
W' = 0.36(S - jD(a /180))
X' = 0.54(S + jD(a /180))
Y' = 1.00D(a /180)


where:
S = Left + Right
D = Left - Right
a = Width control, varying between 0 and 180°
j = 90° phase shift

taken from:
http://www.geocities.com/ambinutter..._equations.html

if usde it sould provied better results on dolby surround

[kempfand]

@ sycho: Can't answer your Q directly, but here are 2 suggestions:

1) Have a look at the non-GUI-version of B-Pan-e, and especially at the related documentation (http://www.dmalham.freeserve.co.uk/bpan_help.html) . There are much more settings there to play around with.

2) I'm sure the author (Dave Malham) would be able to answer. You might send him an email.

Keep us posted on your findings ...

Regards,

Andreas

[bitsnbytes]

I spent A good portion of my late night making files from cd and mp3. I finished late morning
with A good mix of songs all encoded the same.
centers up a 1/4 LFE at 500's @60hz using the 16bit method. Besweet to demux and resample @ 48000. DTS encoded to 24/48000.

Now I traveled 30 mile to my trusted highend stereo shop where the gave me the room with about 60-$80,000 system the pricer one wouldnt play my files heh.

surfing the disk on there $5000 dvd audio player was troublesome only rendering track1,2,3 etc no folders...{they didnt have the model I bought on floor} but anyway played 5 or 6 diff tracks.
The sounds drew A bit of a crowd as salesmen brought customers in and volume was at A loud setting they started asking who, what is this?

All were thoughly impressed and enjoyed children of the sun huge. I know this guy runs comparison test and room environment sweet spot test... so I kept asking for his proffesional opinion I think I got it he, just kept saying it sounded sweet and asking how I made them and would I do his favorite CD he uses to setup sytems... with the music he likes best :D

So now im sure this is the way to do surround sound.

Good job guys and as they say the proof is in the pudding... now about doing this 24 bit :sly:

PS he loved the bass coming from the 15in subwoofer and asked if I turned it up... um er i used .500 i said heh LFE baby yeah

[bitsnbytes]

ok lets see if I can get on to better.

so lets say i want to work at 32 bits and end up with 24 bit... also @48000

so i tried making 6 recorders @24 bit but rendered some of the channels invalid or with un recoverable errors.

can this be done in the bidule?


If so an example please :-)

[kempfand]

@ bitsnbytes: Thanks for the nice feedback.

The Ambisonic VST's (B-Pan, B-Proc, Emigrator) work at 32 bit (even 64). For quick tests, I suggest you use CoolEdit (or your preferred app) to bring things up to 32 bit precision and 48 kHz before you feed into the Bidule scheme.

To my knowledge, the encoders (ac3 or dts) will request 16 bit input, so just use the 'Audio File Recorder' in Bidule with the 16-bit depth.

Regarding the LFE: I have not tested this yet, but this might only work in 16 bit (and therefore the errors you got). So you'd have to use a more complex set-up scheme to do things in one run.

Regards,

Andreas

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by daphy
thx for the suggestion

I added this profile to the layouts (http://www.daphy.de/ambisonic/2.0to5.1_soundmapper.bidule) (use save as.. option).
(see the connections) (http://www.daphy.de/ambisonic/verbindun.gif)
If this is the only problem - nevermind :D

Fine toy!
I´m wondering to make a DVD instead of many CDs.
What format (WAV in 44.1 or 48 khz) are needed to make a Audio DVD on DTS?

CYA Daphy
Thanks for the module you made !
Nice work

EoH

[specise_8472]

EOH

For those that own the Nuendo Dolby DIgital Encoder.
How about just plugging in this baby and then just straight encode into AC3 from Bidule.:D

Also has Decode for AC3 in package - decode DD AC3 2.0 from some dvds and then viola, Ambisonic AC3

Am waiting with baited breath for the Nuendo DTS encoder to appear - Also when I can afford it:( Hopefully it also contains a Decoder for DTS.

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by specise_8472
EOH

For those that own the Nuendo Dolby DIgital Encoder.
How about just plugging in this baby and then just straight encode into AC3 from Bidule.:D

Also has Decode for AC3 in package - decode DD AC3 2.0 from some dvds and then viola, Ambisonic AC3

Am waiting with baited breath for the Nuendo DTS encoder to appear - Also when I can afford it:( Hopefully it also contains a Decoder for DTS.

I know, we thought about it, but .....it's nit freeware, huh ?? LOL !!

AC3 2.0 to Ambi AC3 5.1 : See former message about LPCM :-)

I think you can forget about the decoder :-(
I like the possibility (if it is possible !) to have a DTS encoder on the Bidule screen ! OTOH DTS has not much options, so for quality I doubt anything will change.......

BTW good to see you here too ;)


EoH

[kempfand]

@EoH:
Do you prefere "normalise" on all files (with a VST plugin or a preprocessor like R8brain) before the Ambisonics conversion or afterwards on all 6 mono wavs ?
Normalise (with BeSweet -ota( -G max ) ) after b-file decoding. After all, this is what the 'old' Command-Line Ambisonic Decoder (http://www.muse.demon.co.uk/utils/ambidec.html) does (where the -g switch is disabled by default).

I still have some problems when I input a 32 bits file and output (in the file recorder) as 16 bits..... Strange ... always works here...

Andreas

[Eye of Horus]

Today I did so many experiments...... I lost count :D

That's the nice thing with this system. There are hundreds of freeware VST plugins and they are so easy to use in Bidule and on "our" Ambi project.
You can immediately hear the effect.....

Here are a few sites with loads of free plugins.....

http://usitweb.shef.ac.uk/~mup01jrm/vst/vstlinks.htm

http://acidfreak.future.easyspace.com/

http://www.vstcentral.com/results.asp?fTitle=&fAuthor=&fType=&fMoreLess=0&fPrice=1&fVST=true&fPC=true&fDX=&fMac=&fSort=Author&fPe=50&fFreeCom=&fPlugin=&Submit2=Submit

For those who are real ambitious : make your own VST !
http://www.steinberg.net/en/ps/support/3rdparty/vst_sdk/download/index.php


EoH

[bitsnbytes]

I converted the .wav to 32bit 48000 then loaded it in the player and set recorder to 16bit.

Result was a 16/44 and sound was muffled, female voice was mannish.

Perhaps the setup doesnt handle 48000?

I played the original file sounds fine.

[kempfand]

@ bitsnbytes: I might have given a wrong suggestion earlier. In summary, and more concrete:

What I tested and what works:
- Increase precision to 32-bit before Biduel scheme
- Record to 16 bit multichannel wav
- Use BeSweet to upsample to 48 kHz after the Bidule scheme, using:
BeSweet -core( -input In-6ch.wav -output Out_ -type wav -6ch ) -ota( -G max ) -ssrc( --rate 48000 )

What I didn't test, is the 48 kHz upsampling before running the Bidule scheme. I just assumed it works... Maybe that's not the case, which would explain the muffled sound you mention.

@ EoH: Hope that doesn't mean Guide v1.02 :devil: :scared: LOL

Andreas

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by bitsnbytes
I converted the .wav to 32bit 48000 then loaded it in the player and set recorder to 16bit.

Result was a 16/44 and sound was muffled, female voice was mannish.

Perhaps the setup doesnt handle 48000?

I played the original file sounds fine.

Did you change the 44100 to 48000 in the settings screen ???

EoH

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by kempfand
@ bitsnbytes: I might have given a wrong suggestion earlier. In summary, and more concrete:

What I tested and what works:
- Increase precision to 32-bit before Biduel scheme
- Record to 16 bit multichannel wav
- Use BeSweet to upsample to 48 kHz after the Bidule scheme, using:
BeSweet -core( -input In-6ch.wav -output Out_ -type wav -6ch ) -ota( -G max ) -ssrc( --rate 48000 )

What I didn't test, is the 48 kHz upsampling before running the Bidule scheme. I just assumed it works... Maybe that's not the case, which would explain the muffled sound you mention.

@ EoH: Hope that doesn't mean Guide v1.02 :devil: :scared: LOL

Andreas

Nope :rolleyes:

Author of Bidule said : 48 Khz before using it ! But..... don't forget you also have to change in the settings-menu !!

EoH

[bitsnbytes]

ok got this sucker workin now:cool:

cool edit I resample to 32/48
set recorders to 24bit

Load 6 Recorders only link 1 at a time
6th recorder is LFE/Optional
record one channel at a time slow but I think results are worth looking at,the lack of "normalizing" is a different sound all together.

Ok Emigrator Mapping for those crazy enough to follow heh

from left to right
channel l = Center
channel 2 = Front Left
channel 3 = Rear Left
channel 4 = Right Rear
channel 5 = Front Right
channel 6 = LFE /optional

Really hope they can fix this so we can output to 6 recorders at a time

MY HNM Low Pass Filter settings for Subwoofer Crossover @ 60hz

Filter: .060
CutOff: .017
Resonance: .500
Slope: .000
InAmp: .500
OutAmp: .333 im lookin at increasing this slightly... .500 was very intense I had to reduce SW to -5db .333 is nice but I want A inbetween ;-)

[kempfand]

Try using 'Audio FIle Recorder' (6 channels) for the 5 pins from Emigrator (as outlined in the guide), and use the proven DSPGuru tools (BeSweet ... -6ch -OTA). For the LFE, try using one 1-channel 'Audio File Recorder'.

Good luck,

Andreas

[kempfand]

@ EoH / all: Today I did so many experiments...... I lost count

More food: :D

B-Plane Mirror (http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/mustech/3d_audio/vst/bfpmirror_help.html)

B-Mic (http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/mustech/3d_audio/vst/bfmic_help.html)

Bpan3 - Third Order Ambisonic Encoder (http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/mustech/3d_audio/vst/bpan3_help.html)

Let's test :cool:

Andreas

[TerraForce1]

Hi,

First of all I would like to thank everybody pointing out on this.

At first glance I wanted to test if this method worked out for me. I have the following problem and it keeps doing it over and over.

The pitch of the created 6 channel wav is higher compared to the original stereo WAV file, so I end up with a 14 seconds less than the original. The songs ends like it has to end but the pitch is higher compared to its original. The created multichannel wav is like 2:45 as for the original is 2:59. I dont know if anybody has experienced this problem.

I know I just could alter the pitch, but I find it better that the program works flawless.

Could somebody point me out what I am doing wrong or is it bidule itself?

[TerraForce1]

Hi, well as the post subjects says it all:

I love the way your mind works. Meaning you are right.

Thx.

[daphy]

@ all

If you have a new profil that works fine for you please contact me via PM. Than send me your settings (***.bidule -file) via email, so I can give others the opportunity to download it and make further development possible :D

CYA Daphy

[TerraForce1]

Hi,

I want to report about the awesome results I got. I own an Eagles DVD. You can choose between DTS or PCM. I have expirmented on the song California Hotel (Acoustic version). Because I own the DVD, I downloaded a mp3 of this song and tried the guide. Unbelievable, you can hear the same effects as they come on the original DTS track as with the new encoded DTS sound. I don't know how, but it looks like the same. But however there is a but, and that is. In the original DVD I hear the BassTablets from Front Left, as with the encoding they come from Rear Right. As from the original DVD I get the hihats from Rear Right as from the Encoded they come from Front Left. Somehow it looks like the sound is swapped between the Speakers. The center and right front speaker also look to be just the way around. I had not much time for more analyzing. But the sound of the original DVD gives with the original speaker setting a better harmonic between the sounds.
My first thought is the setting of the Emigrator where you can set the conrolled opposites. But I may be wrong.

For your information.

TerraForce1

[kempfand]

@ TerraForce1: Thanks for the nice feedback. Three comments:

1) The channel-mapping with the method in the guide is correct (we checked this again and again before publishing). Despite the 'good' results with this method, it is very likely that results are different from those optained with special 5.1-mix (btw: I know California Hotel from the DVD very well too :) ).

2) The Ambisonic method is more about creating a 'sound-image', not about isolating effects & instruments to discrete channels. Given this, having effects coming out of the same speaker as with the DVD-5.1-mix (with emphasis on mix) should not be expected.

Another way to put this: B-Pan creates an Ambisonic 1st-order B-file (=WXYZ). The fact that we decided for the guide to outline decoding to 5.0 is just because most of us have a 5.1-system. However, decoding could be easily made for 4.0, 8.0, 12.0, etc. etc. speaker rigs :eek:

3) You can experiment with the `controlled opposite' (vs. 'strict soundfiled'). Richard Furse finds that the `controlled opposite' equations produce a larger listening area at the expense of some directional information (Ambisonic Decoding Equations (http://www.muse.demon.co.uk/ref/speakers.html) . Keep us posted on your preference.

Regards,

Andreas

[specise_8472]

Originally posted by Eye of Horus
BTW I just did some tests with the Nuendo, but I don't get it to output anything..... Do you have an idea ?

kind regards,

EoH


It was just an idea - but am working on it at the moment:)

Also, is there any good reason why in Bidule you cannot just define 6 single channel outputs and output each channel as a single wave file. Then at the end you have your 6 waves all ready to go:confused:

[bitsnbytes]

Originally posted by specise_8472
It was just an idea - but am working on it at the moment:)

Also, is there any good reason why in Bidule you cannot just define 6 single channel outputs and output each channel as a single wave file. Then at the end you have your 6 waves all ready to go:confused:


You can but it is time consuming.
I tried 6 recorders but some generated invalid files.

So I set the six recorders unlinkig all but the first... then unlink the first and link the second...etc
then in my encoder it warned me that there were files of different data lenghths... but song encoded correctly and sounded right.

ps I only did it this way to go from 32bit/48000
to 24 bit/48000 directly

with this manner you dont get normalizing

so a 5 min song gonna take you 30 min.....
results are not worth the extra time I dont think.... but maybe later when they fix it ;-)

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by specise_8472
It was just an idea - but am working on it at the moment:)

Also, is there any good reason why in Bidule you cannot just define 6 single channel outputs and output each channel as a single wave file. Then at the end you have your 6 waves all ready to go:confused:

But..... I want to make AC3's from the 6-in-1 wav.....
I can load this file directly into Soft Encode !!

&@Kempfand
These are the pros and cons of hitchhiking :-)

EoH

[bitsnbytes]

I got The Edgar Winter Group - "They Only Come Out AT Night" CD from guy at work... I have to say zzz Frakenstein is A masterful piece and made sweet love to my ears.... originally encoded for quadraphonics... I now see why:cool:

[specise_8472]

Interesting find.
Load the resultant 6 channel wave into Adobe Audition and it automatically splits the file into 6 waves. Then add them to multitrack view.
The only problem then is that the only multichannel output formats supported at the moment are Windows Media 9 Multichannel. Will also export 6 wavs and multichannel wave.
Am still playing around with various options and programs.

BTW have you tried the TAPEIT vst plugin (get from vst central) as the recorder for individual wavs.