GUIDE: Stereo to 5-Channel Surround [Archive] - Page 14

Eye of Horus

2nd July 2004, 22:36

Originally posted by ursamtl
<snip>
Anyway, I hope the mods do something because newcomers are missing some potentially great stuff. Yes, this thread is fascinating to read, but it's become somewhat leviathan for people who like you said just want to find something that might be what they're looking for, zoom in on it and have fun!

Regards,
Steve.

What should be done is a better search routine !

besides that :
A thread becomes sticky when it is proven important enough for a lot of people . The number of visitors to this thread, makes it important enough to get a sticky status.
That people post a lot of non-topic stuff in it, shouldn't be the reason to remove it's status. When all non-topic posts are removed, we come back to the basics ! And I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes less than 15 pages then !!
And as long as there is so much non-topic in it, yes, it will be difficult to find the things you want or need. And I'm sorry to say so (I made myself guilty of that too !) but for instance discussions about hardware drivers for a specific soundcard have nothing to do with this thread !
This thread is already split once, because the former got too much off-topic and became a Besweet commandline discussion.

And actually this discussion is again non-topic and only a waste of space !

So if we all stick to the subject we will get a cleaner and more on-topic thread.

It's not the thread that's wrong, it's the off-topic postings that made it this long.

Yes, I do miss a more active role of the moderators, but I guess this becomes too long for them too !

In the past every now and then a topic was moved to another place because it didn't belong here. I miss that lately !!

My 2 (last) cents, because I will try to stay on-topic from now on !

EoH

Eye of Horus

2nd July 2004, 22:44

Originally posted by Tantulus
Thanks for your response, EOH.

I've tried to use Audition's surround panner and found it daunting. Are the vst's your referring to have presets and tutorials?

Scott

LOL !! This SRS VST is so simple that I am still surprised that it even has a manual !!

There are almost no settings !

No presets, because it doesn't work that way.

You chose if you want a center speaker in the front only, or also one in the back or none at all. And you chose if you want extra volume to the voice and the LFE channel. If you chose for extra volume it has a standard setting of +5 Db. That's the only thing I advice to change to +3 Db. Sometimes it can clip with +5. (but it even has 7 VU meters, so you can see what's happening and adjust the settings if necessary.
That's all there is ! really !!

Just give it a try with the 7 days trial. It's a pity it's so expensive ! But..... quality obviously has it's price !

Good luck and let us know what you think of it,

kind regards,

EoH

ursamtl

2nd July 2004, 23:38

Originally posted by Eye of Horus
What should be done is a better search routine !

besides that :
A thread becomes sticky when it is proven important enough for a lot of people . The number of visitors to this thread, makes it important enough to get a sticky status.
That people post a lot of non-topic stuff in it, shouldn't be the reason to remove it's status. When all non-topic posts are removed, we come back to the basics ! And I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes less than 15 pages then !!
And as long as there is so much non-topic in it, yes, it will be difficult to find the things you want or need. And I'm sorry to say so (I made myself guilty of that too !) but for instance discussions about hardware drivers for a specific soundcard have nothing to do with this thread !
This thread is already split once, because the former got too much off-topic and became a Besweet commandline discussion.

And actually this discussion is again non-topic and only a waste of space !

So if we all stick to the subject we will get a cleaner and more on-topic thread.

It's not the thread that's wrong, it's the off-topic postings that made it this long.

Yes, I do miss a more active role of the moderators, but I guess this becomes too long for them too !

In the past every now and then a topic was moved to another place because it didn't belong here. I miss that lately !!

My 2 (last) cents, because I will try to stay on-topic from now on !

EoH Discussing the contents of a thread in the thread is hardly off-topic! Where else are we supposed to discuss it? :)

I think you missed my point. The problem is not off-topic posts, although the thread is full of those (Euro 2004, health problems, surround settings for soundcard drivers, yes we're all guilty :) ). The problem is how newcomers access the information. You wrote a very good guide in the beginning. I'm a technical writer by profession so I'm used to reading this kind of stuff. Yours is well done. As you know very well, I found the results disappointing, but it was not the fault of your guide. However, as I wrote before, someone reading this thread for the first time has to keep reading for a long time before other, equally valid approaches come up. In addition, others have written guides that are also equally valid, but these scroll off the front page before many people have time to read them. Ideally, all these guides, including yours, would appear on the Doom9 Guides page and not just in the forum. They don't, so instead of having to spend a long time searching through a 15 page thread (your estimate after we remove what you consider off-topic), it would be very helpful if people could just access a list of all the methods and go directly to them.

In addition, on most forums I've seen over the years, "Sticky" threads are used by the forum managers to provide important forum-related information, just as the BeSweet FAQ thread. A newcomer such as I was awhile back would naturally come to the conclusion that your guide is the official Doom9-sanctioned approach to creating surround sound. It's not. It's only one of several approaches. As you've said yourself, the best method to use depends on the source music. If there was a simple sticky thread with a list of all the methods, then newcomers would find all the approaches and be in a much better position to evaluate them just as Tantalus has done. For example, in his experience, kempfand's Preservation bidule outranked all the others, yet it only received a passing mention in this thread until kempfand asked me what I thought of it and I posted a message saying how good it sounded! Since then I've had people private messaging me asking how they can get it. This info is there, but it's not apparent, so people just private message instead.

So you see, it's not about off-topic information. It's about information access. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't have the time or desire to read through 14 or so pages of a thread just to find a surround approach that sounds as good as the Preservation bidule. I'm presently putting the finishing touches on something that sounds even better IMHO, and although I'll certainly post details about it in this thread, I'll also provide a complete guide somewhere else so that people don't have to spend forever reading just to stumble upon it.

Maybe we could all share the work in putting a menu together. I'd certainly be willing to help. Would you?

davidv@plogue

3rd July 2004, 16:13

Hi EoH,

I really dont know what's going on.
Both Bidule 6602 and Besweet b28 seem fine by me
I made two 6 channel files in bidule (not extensible as Besweet doesnt decode them)
and in each channel, a voice saying the channel number:
(available in http://plogue.com/davidv/temp)

and Both

BeSweet.exe -core( -input 06_16bit.wav -output temp- -type wav -6ch ) -ota( -G max )
BeSweet.exe -core( -input 06_32bit.wav -output temp- -type wav -6chfloat ) -ota( -G max )

Give the same mapping

temp-c.wav = 3
temp-FL.wav = 1
temp-FR.wav = 2
temp-LFE.wav = 4
temp-SL.wav = 5
temp-SR.wav = 6

Can you please confirm.

ursamtl

3rd July 2004, 16:21

Eye of Horus

3rd July 2004, 16:39

Originally posted by davidv@plogue
Hi EoH,

I really dont know what's going on.
Both Bidule 6602 and Besweet b28 seem fine by me
I made two 6 channel files in bidule (not extensible as Besweet doesnt decode them)
and in each channel, a voice saying the channel number:
(available in http://plogue.com/davidv/temp)

and Both

BeSweet.exe -core( -input 06_16bit.wav -output temp- -type wav -6ch ) -ota( -G max )
BeSweet.exe -core( -input 06_32bit.wav -output temp- -type wav -6chfloat ) -ota( -G max )

Give the same mapping

temp-c.wav = 3
temp-FL.wav = 1
temp-FR.wav = 2
temp-LFE.wav = 4
temp-SL.wav = 5
temp-SR.wav = 6

Can you please confirm.

Yep, same result here !
But, that was to be expected !

There is something wrong in Bidule with certain VST's but only on certain computers !
Layla1970 (also member here) gets random results from the filerecorder, I don't get random, but wrong order.
Kempfand reported the same kind of errors.

The two VST's where this happens are :
SRS VST
Spat DPL decoder

And I had it with another one, that we made, too, but ATM I don't remember which one.

So : this doesn't happen always ! That's also what makes it difficult, especially when the filerecorder gives it's output at random !

Resume : everything with the 2 VST works great in 16 bits, but with 32 bits there are problems........

I don't know if it's a fault in the VST's or in Bidule, but as I prefer the outcome in 32 bits, I hope you can find a solution !

with kindest regards,

EoH

kempfand

3rd July 2004, 16:46

My 2 cents on this: Having s short sticky with links to various methods is a good idea and can be of help for look-up and getting up to speed purposes, but it does in my opinion not replace the need to read through most of the pages of this threat. Where I live, there is a saying going along the lines: "reading educates", and this is what I mean when I advise all newcomers to take the time and read through the details. There is simply no replacement for doing this.

Concerning the pros and cons of each method, this is a function of so many variables (personal taste, source material used, reproduction equipment, even brand of CD-R used, just to name a few), and my preference would be to not use such ratings and just keep it to the technical description & details. Giving 'pros & cons' to the outcome of a method is just a source for endless and mostly unproductive discussions, and I believe that every one here can make up his mind and go the route he or she likes best.

Maybe 2 sticky would make everyone happy. Just my 2 cents.

Andreas

kempfand

3rd July 2004, 16:51

Originally posted by Eye of Horus
There is something wrong in Bidule with certain VST's but only on certain computers !
Layla1970 (also member here) gets random results from the filerecorder, I don't get random, but wrong order.
Kempfand reported the same kind of errors. I don't have the mapping problem, but still have the problem with >4 GB 32 bit multichannel WAV's and BeSweet demusing. Currently using WaveLab to demux things.

Kind regards,

Andreas

davidv@plogue

3rd July 2004, 17:38

Resume : everything with the 2 VST works great in 16 bits, but with 32 bits there are problems........

I don't know if it's a fault in the VST's or in Bidule, but as I prefer the outcome in 32 bits, I hope you can find a solution !

with kindest regards,

EoH [/B]

Im sorry but i know how the signal path works in bidule.
as i said ALL signal paths are in 32 bits, and there is no supplemental information that passes through the graph.
The VST plugin has no clue that we record the final output at 32 bits or 16 bits. (or that we change those settings in the file player or recorder)

Please send me your .bidules, and a clear step by step way to reproduce.

Eye of Horus

3rd July 2004, 17:39

Eye of Horus

3rd July 2004, 17:47

Originally posted by davidv@plogue
Im sorry but i know how the signal path works in bidule.
as i said ALL signal paths are in 32 bits, and there is no supplemental information that passes through the graph.
The VST plugin has no clue that we record the final output at 32 bits or 16 bits. (or that we change those settings in the file player or recorder)

Please send me your .bidules, and a clear step by step way to reproduce.

I can send you the bidules, but the two that gives the problems are so simple ;)

fileplayer 2 channels > SRS VST (or Spat DPL Decode) > filerecorder 6 channels.

That's really all there is !

But if you wish to have the bidules, please tell me where to upload them to !

BTW there is also some reaction from SRS : they tested in Nuendo and they worked. They didn't test in Bidule and the VST was not designed for Bidule.

Doesn't help much :-) and I thought VST's were universal ?!

What I will do is this : I will test the same in another program (I believe it's called Audiomulch ?) and see what happens there.

BTW could it have anything to do with settings in XP ??
Just wondering......

kind regards,

EoH

Eye of Horus

3rd July 2004, 17:49

Originally posted by kempfand
I don't have the mapping problem, but still have the problem with >4 GB 32 bit multichannel WAV's and BeSweet demusing. Currently using WaveLab to demux things.

Kind regards,

Andreas

LOL !! That is NO problem here ! Yesterday I did a 7.4 GB mch-WAV without any problem !
And we both have the same setup !!!

STRANGE !!!!

EoH

kempfand

3rd July 2004, 17:59

@ EoH / David: I think the mapping problem for a few is caused by specific combinations of drivers, dll's, .ax, DirectX, whatever, but not by Bidule a/o BeSweet. If it was, it would reproduce consistently on all machines.

In analogy, there were mapping problems reported for demuxing dts-wav's, and in the end, the solution was/is to use a working combination of azidts, ivaudio.ax, WinDVD, BeSweet (i.e. using specific versions of drivers etc).

@ EoH: But they still need to try them theirselves. That's my point. Even experiments leading to disappointing results are invaluable, as they help to 'recognize' "good" results. In my previous live, I used to be a student for classic piano, and my teacher always advised me to visit and listen to unknown (and therefore sometimes not-so-good) live performances. I was 25 years younger then, and didn't really get the point back then, but I now realize the good advice, as it helped me personally to recognize the "good" performances and not just call them "good" because of what the adds say.

Regards,

Andreas

Eye of Horus

3rd July 2004, 18:48

Originally posted by kempfand
@ EoH / David: I think the mapping problem for a few is caused by specific combinations of drivers, dll's, .ax, DirectX, whatever, but not by Bidule a/o BeSweet. If it was, it would reproduce consistently on all machines.

In analogy, there were mapping problems reported for demuxing dts-wav's, and in the end, the solution was/is to use a working combination of azidts, ivaudio.ax, WinDVD, BeSweet (i.e. using specific versions of drivers etc).

@ EoH: That's my point. Even experiments leading to disappointing results are invaluable, as they help to 'recognize' "good" results. In my previous live, I used to be a student for classic piano, and my teacher always advised me to visit and listen to unknown (and therefore sometimes not-so-good) live performances. I was 25 years younger then, and didn't really get the point back then, but I now realize the good advice, as it helped me personally to recognize the "good" performances and not just call them "good" because of what the adds say.

Regards,

Andreas

Perhaps I should try a clean install again ?
It's less than a month ago, I did so !

BTW I didn't know you could play the piano at the age of 3 !! LOL !!

grtz,

EoH

ursamtl

3rd July 2004, 19:10

Originally posted by kempfand
My 2 cents on this: Having s short sticky with links to various methods is a good idea and can be of help for look-up and getting up to speed purposes, but it does in my opinion not replace the need to read through most of the pages of this threat. Where I live, there is a saying going along the lines: "reading educates", and this is what I mean when I advise all newcomers to take the time and read through the details. There is simply no replacement for doing this.

Concerning the pros and cons of each method, this is a function of so many variables (personal taste, source material used, reproduction equipment, even brand of CD-R used, just to name a few), and my preference would be to not use such ratings and just keep it to the technical description & details. Giving 'pros & cons' to the outcome of a method is just a source for endless and mostly unproductive discussions, and I believe that every one here can make up his mind and go the route he or she likes best.

Maybe 2 sticky would make everyone happy. Just my 2 cents.

Andreas Welcome back, Andreas.

I agree that a "pros and cons" discussion would be counterproductive. Yes, reading does educate, but to read the whole thread just to find something specific is not very efficient. If each new method or vidule is presented in its own thread, then added to a master list of methods without any "editorial" information, then people can zero in one specifics and evlauate them for themselves. This current thread is valuable as a discussion are for the theory of surround, etc., but the specifics for each method are better dealt with in a thread for that specific method. At present, if someone decides to post a method in a separate thread, it quickly scrolls off the first page and only those with the curiosity (and time!:)) to read through the thread list get to know about these. Someone new might read the beginning and then go to the last page to see what's new, but what about all the middle stuff? If it were somehow easy to zoom in on these methods, bidules, VSTs, etc., without having to read for a long time, people could spend more time experimenting and less time reading.

davidv@plogue

3rd July 2004, 20:04

Hi

Unlike Directshow (graphedit and co)'s nighmarish configuration,
Bidule is not influenced in _any_ way by any directshow filters you may have installed, so .ax, directshow, and audio driver do _nothing_ to the computations in the bidule graph OR in the mapping of channels in our file writer, as we dont use any directshow filters to read or write files or to process audio.

all audio/file processing and mangling _appart_ from VSTs is entirely made in PlogueBidule.exe and libdnsfile.dll using cross platform code. reinstalling bidule wont change anything.
Please trust me on that will ya ? :)

As far as the SRS vst plugin is concerned, im afraid that theres NO way im going to install a PACE - protected plugin on my system. EVER.

PACE is EVIL.

i will try out woth the acousmodule one, and get you back on that.
(i fail to see how a VST can grow arms and penetrate bidule's graph code and mess things up)

Now the reason why i ask for a step by step way to reproduce and a specific bidule file is just because i KNOW (im a bidule programmer), that the problem is either in the VST or in the way the cables are wired.

Im trying to isolate the "bug" here.

Ive proven before that Besweet OR the bidule's file writer is NOT to blame. Now there MAY be a bug in the bidule intermodule routing, but if there is one, it is STATIC, it doesnt change if you load a 16 bit wav file or a 32 bit wav file., but maybe only if you add/remove connections between the various VSTs and bidules. (this is why i need the .bidules) or if you load an entirely new bidule (which has different routings)

Cheers

Eye of Horus

4th July 2004, 00:28

Originally posted by davidv@plogue
Hi

Unlike Directshow (graphedit and co)'s nighmarish configuration,
Bidule is not influenced in _any_ way by any directshow filters you may have installed, so .ax, directshow, and audio driver do _nothing_ to the computations in the bidule graph OR in the mapping of channels in our file writer, as we dont use any directshow filters to read or write files or to process audio.

all audio/file processing and mangling _appart_ from VSTs is entirely made in PlogueBidule.exe and libdnsfile.dll using cross platform code. reinstalling bidule wont change anything.
Please trust me on that will ya ? :)

As far as the SRS vst plugin is concerned, im afraid that theres NO way im going to install a PACE - protected plugin on my system. EVER.

PACE is EVIL.

i will try out woth the acousmodule one, and get you back on that.
(i fail to see how a VST can grow arms and penetrate bidule's graph code and mess things up)

Now the reason why i ask for a step by step way to reproduce and a specific bidule file is just because i KNOW (im a bidule programmer), that the problem is either in the VST or in the way the cables are wired.

Im trying to isolate the "bug" here.

Ive proven before that Besweet OR the bidule's file writer is NOT to blame. Now there MAY be a bug in the bidule intermodule routing, but if there is one, it is STATIC, it doesnt change if you load a 16 bit wav file or a 32 bit wav file., but maybe only if you add/remove connections between the various VSTs and bidules. (this is why i need the .bidules) or if you load an entirely new bidule (which has different routings)

Cheers

OK ! I will post it tomorrow as an attachment to your emailaddress !
BTW I also think the problem is in the VST, but.... it does work in other programs like Nuendo, as the spokeswoman of SRS said.
Can that be possible, that a VST works good in certain programs only ? I thought it was an universal format.
And if it is indeed the VST that causes the problem, I for sure wouldn't pay $ 299.= for it !! (Despite the excellent results it gives !)

BTW can you explain more about "PACE is EVIL" ?
Does it do anything unwanted to your system ? (I ask this because I just used AD-Aware for the first time on my PC and was surprised by the amount of thrash it found !)

kind regards,

EoH

davidv@plogue

4th July 2004, 01:07

Originally posted by Eye of Horus
[B]Can that be possible, that a VST works good in certain programs only ? I thought it was an universal format.
And if it is indeed the VST that causes the problem, I for sure wouldn't pay $ 299.= for it !! (Despite the excellent results it gives !)

i think you may be close to something, theres a whole section of the VST format thats not used at all as my experience is concerned (600 plugins in my folder), and upon looking, it does contain details on expected host "speaker arrangements"
and _maybe_ the plugin expects us to feed it some valid values (prolly cubase/nuendo does that). And its a part of the standard that only some surround plugins require, but thats the first news i have of it.

Seems like i have no choice but to download the PACE bugger,
and check it it require us to feed it values "as if it were" inside nuendo.

Speaking of which, PACE is the most stickest copy protection you can find, it crawls everywhere and its been reported to cause some instabilities in some users PC (allthough im trying to find some proof of that, ill post the links when i do).

Its used as a desperate mesure to block piracy but often timnes bugs the legitimate users more.

Eye of Horus

4th July 2004, 10:33

Hi all,

When someone hurt my feelings I tend to ignore all he wrote and also the good points. (hey, I'm human too ;) )
But it's never too late to do something about that......

My proposal : Let's make a top list with direct links to all methods used to make surround from stereo on Doom9.
I will make a start but need some help.

The way I think we should do this :
- Name of the method
- Author of the method
- Link to subject on Doom9
- Direct Link to the place to download

After that list is ready, we can add external (outside of Doom9) links.

So :

I will do this whole thread and find all the bidules and VST's mentioned in here.

Ursamtl : do you want to do the methods outside this thread on Doom9 ?

Daphy : will you do the direct links to your server ? (somethinng like : SAD51inBidule : http://www.needfulthing.org/audio/bidules/SAD51inBidule/SADinBidule.rar).

This way someone can chose not to dive into the subject, but direct download it.....

All others : when you find a link outside Doom9, please add !

You can send it all to me by PM, and I will make a list in the above mentioned format.

Let's ask DSPGuru then to add it as a sticky one above my sticky one....

What do you think ?

kind regards,

EoH

ursamtl

4th July 2004, 14:37

EoH,

I'd be happy to do the methods outside of this thread. I'll try and have that to you by the end of the day (the Canadian day. Yours ends 4 or 5 hrs earlier than mine :)).

I think the list this will be a really valuable addition to Doom9.

Regards,
Steve.

Eye of Horus

4th July 2004, 19:19

Originally posted by ursamtl
EoH,

I'd be happy to do the methods outside of this thread. I'll try and have that to you by the end of the day (the Canadian day. Yours ends 4 or 5 hrs earlier than mine :)).

I think the list this will be a really valuable addition to Doom9.

Regards,
Steve.

Excellent !!!
I need a little bit longer > Finals of the European Championship Soccer today !

kind regards,

EoH

ursamtl

5th July 2004, 01:13

Ok, I've read through the entire list of threads on this forum and sent EoH a list of all the surround methods I could find, 14 in all. This does count the earlier versions of EoH's method. Combine that with all the stuff in the big thread, and we should have a really nice list of methods!

I've also sent him some links to related threads. These contain info that may be useful.

Regards,
Steve.

heula

7th July 2004, 07:59

I saw this thread and I tried to make a 6channel wav following this guide. Now everything went well but when making the 6channel wav to 6 mono wavs with besweet, besweet can't open the wav. Nothing happens. Also besweet gui doesn't accept the wav. The wav I created with Ploque Bidule is playable in windows mediaplayer and windvd.
When making mono wavs with a standard 2channel wav it will work in besweet.
Am I doing something wrong or.....? :confused:

Please help me out here.

Eye of Horus

7th July 2004, 10:06

Originally posted by heula
I saw this thread and I tried to make a 6channel wav following this guide. Now everything went well but when making the 6channel wav to 6 mono wavs with besweet, besweet can't open the wav. Nothing happens. Also besweet gui doesn't accept the wav. The wav I created with Ploque Bidule is playable in windows mediaplayer and windvd.
When making mono wavs with a standard 2channel wav it will work in besweet.
Am I doing something wrong or.....? :confused:

Please help me out here.

I suppose you have the latest Bidule ? (0.6601)

Goto "Edit " , "Preferences", "disk I/O" and set use WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE to "NEVER".

This will fix the problem, but..... you will have to redo your files !

kind regards,

EoH

heula

7th July 2004, 11:44

Thanks, this solved the problem.

MaroonMike

16th July 2004, 03:00

Stay tuned because if you liked the bidules so far in this thread, you're going to love what I'm working on now! I should finish testing and writing a guide in another week or two. Ironically, I was testing it on the final movement of Beethoven's 9th yesterday as well as on a John Williams recording of Rodrigo's Concierto de Aranjuez. Talk about filling a room with sound

Steve,

Any update on this?

Thanks,
Mike

ursamtl

18th July 2004, 02:55

Originally posted by MaroonMike
Steve,

Any update on this?

Thanks,
Mike

Hi Mike,

I deleted my previous answer as I've now posted the bidule and a quickie mini-guide in the thread http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79862 . Give it a try. I've been quite pleased with the results so far using this bidule.

Enjoy!
Steve.

Sakuya

19th July 2004, 09:03

I really appreciate that you have created this guide. I don't understand how a given stereo track can be divided into a surround track since the original had nothing like that. You do mean a 5.1 track for DVDs right? I think 5.1 tracks is a division where some is designed to come out of the back speakers and whatnot. Since my stereo track has voices and background music mushed together, how will Plogue divide that? :confused:

Edit:
Okay, it finished recording and I now have a testresult.wav. Is there a program for me to convert it to AC3 keeping all the channels? I used BeSweet to enter this input line to get the 6 wav files:

BeSweet.exe -core( -input testresult.wav -output D:\TEST\ -type wav -6ch) -ota( -G max )

It gives me this error message:

Error 58: Error : Unknown Input-File Format : "testresult.wav".

I put the WAV file in the same folder as BeSweet.exe so why won't it work? :scared: In Plogue before I followed your guide, I set the Preferences to 48000 Hz since I'm working with that. I tried my best at the BeSweet GUI v0.7 b2 to convert the WAV to AC3 but it shows the same error message above. Is something wrong with the WAV file? I am sure I followed your guide correctly. I also tried using BeSplit to fix the WAV and output as an AC3 but the black command line box popped up and nothing happened. It just stays there with no moving white numbers. :scared:

daphy

19th July 2004, 11:22

It gives me this error message:
Error 58: Error : Unknown Input-File Format : "testresult.wav".
did you realy tried this:
http://stevethomson.ca/audio/guides/waveformatextensiblenever.gif
:(

Moderator Edit: Fixed Image link

ursamtl

19th July 2004, 13:12

Originally posted by Sakuya
I really appreciate that you have created this guide. I don't understand how a given stereo track can be divided into a surround track since the original had nothing like that. You do mean a 5.1 track for DVDs right? I think 5.1 tracks is a division where some is designed to come out of the back speakers and whatnot. Since my stereo track has voices and background music mushed together, how will Plogue divide that? :confused:Hi Sakuya,

No, almost all the methods described in the guides here actually produce five different audio channels and many also add a sixth LFE channel. They either take information that is already in the 2-channel stereo mix and manipulate it in some way to produce the differences, or else they add artificial ambience to generate a difference. Once you get them to work, I think you'll be quite surprised with the results.

As for your problem with Besweet, it is most likely due to what daphy just posted. Try the following:[list=1] Go to the Edit menu and choose Preferences.

Click the Disk I/O tab.

Set the use WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE dropdown list to never.

[/list=1] This should fix your problem.

Happy encoding
Steve.

Eye of Horus

19th July 2004, 15:05

Originally posted by ursamtl
Hi Mike,

I deleted my previous answer as I've now posted the bidule and a quickie mini-guide in the thread http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79862 . Give it a try. I've been quite pleased with the results so far using this bidule.

Enjoy!
Steve.

Link added in the list......

EoH

Eye of Horus

19th July 2004, 15:08

Originally posted by ursamtl
Hi Sakuya,

<snip>

Happy encoding
Steve.

Now we have on one page three times the same answer to the same question.......

3 times the question
3 the times the answer
In the last 10 messages !!

People, please search before asking !!
Thanks !

EoH

ursamtl

19th July 2004, 15:50

Originally posted by Eye of Horus
Now we have on one page three times the same answer to the same question.......

3 times the question
3 the times the answer
In the last 10 messages !!

People, please search before asking !!
Thanks !

EoH

Hi EoH,

Perhaps a good solution to this recurring question would be to edit your original guide and add a mention of this step. Feel free to use my screen grab, the one that daphy used.

Steve.

Eye of Horus

19th July 2004, 19:21

Originally posted by ursamtl
Hi EoH,

Perhaps a good solution to this recurring question would be to edit your original guide and add a mention of this step. Feel free to use my screen grab, the one that daphy used.

Steve.

Yep, I will....
But only after I finally find out how !!
When I try to edit the message, I get the error : your message has too many images. And I should remove some......
(the images were never there in the first place when I started the guide (I had just links to the pictures), but included later by a moderator. And now I read it back it contains some pictures on the wrong place, the layout is a bit of a mess..... but I cannot edit because of the message......)

thanks for the pic !

EoH

Sakuya

19th July 2004, 20:55

I did a test DVD with two different audio tracks. One is this:
http://www.planetquake.com/filterfactory/3daudio.html

The other one is the guide by EoH. The first one which has the 5 channels along with the subwoofer is not good for a movie. It divides up the voices and it sounds more like a concert hall than anything (plus, I can do that same effect just by using my receiver).

For EoH's output, it's much better than the above where the voices have less of the echo (but it was still there). Unless there is a stereo2surround which emphasizes more on the background music/other effects and leaves the voices in the center, I think I will keep to stereo.

Another setback was that my source had muffled audio. Normally, it sounds fine. When it gets just a bit louder, it will start to get muffled (like when someone is talking through a pillow). Both of the conversions above makes this worse. I cannot find an audio filter that solves this muffled audio and I have set up a thread asking this question but nobody replied. :scared:

Anyway, this was a pretty good experience. This would work well for CDs and concerts. :D So thank you to those who came up with this.

daphy

29th July 2004, 08:21

Hi folks,

I´ve found a nice VST plugin (http://www.needfulthings.webhop.org/files/audio/tools/vst-plugins/unzipped/AnechoicRoomSimulator.rar) to play around with virtual room size parameters.

Please please check it out, wheater it´s worth to add in the vst collection :rolleyes:

kempfand

29th July 2004, 08:45

LOL

As far as I remember, this VST does absolutely nothing :p, because that is what an Anechoic Chamber will do (no coloroation, no reflections etc).

Cheers,

Andreas

daphy

29th July 2004, 09:05

okay :(

let´s forget about it ;)

desertrat

23rd August 2004, 09:38

Hi folks,

been a few months since I was last here and it looks like I've got quite a bit of catching up to do. Anyhow the reason for the post is I've got an update to my bidule that I have u/l to the ftp (desertrat_ambi_combo.bidule) and a need to give a bit of explanation to go along with it.

First I would like to ask that these 2 files be removed from the server
desertrat_stereo2ambisonic_ambi_1.5_combo (ver 2).bidule
desertrat_stereo2ambisonic_ambi_1.5_combo (ver 3).bidule

they were put up way to early, before a sufficient amount of testing on my part, sorry if this may have caused anyone and trouble. These 2 bidules will cause distortion on newer source material ie. anything that has a peak close to 0.0 dB.

So now on to the revised method...

The bidule still has a left and right chain, the left side is taken from EoH's ambisonic method and uses the same settings. The right side is based on the ambi 1.5 method with the WXYZ to 5.1 set to J and the three gain modules after it should be set to the same setting.

I normally use one the following settings for the gain modules -10dB, -15dB -18dB -21dB depending on what sounds best for the particular type of music I'm using it on. The gain must be set for a minimun -5dB or you will most likely get distortion in your end results.

The gain modules allow you to control the amount of mix between the left and right sides. The gain modules are on the right side because the right side has a much higher level than the right side, somewhere around -15db to - 18dB seems to be where there's a pretty even mix between the two.

I have found that -15dB setting seems to work pretty well with reggae and dub. -18dB and -21dB work better on ambient music such as Jarre, Eno, etc.

Cheers,
desertrat

AI_Warrior

1st September 2004, 19:09

I have to problems
I know this prob had'n very movement lately but i have some questions
1st:BeSweet tell's me that the wav file is invalid
2nd:When im able to split the 6 chan to individual wavs and put it in the Surcode it also says that the wave header is invalid

Wt should i do???

Greetz 2 ALL

Eye of Horus

1st September 2004, 19:14

Originally posted by AI_Warrior
I have to problems
I know this prob had'n very movement lately but i have some questions
1st:BeSweet tell's me that the wav file is invalid
2nd:When im able to split the 6 chan to individual wavs and put it in the Surcode it also says that the wave header is invalid

Wt should i do???

Greetz 2 ALL

This subject passed by quite some times and alone in this thread I think the answer is given at least 4 times !! :D

Anyway : start Bidule and go to the settings. Make sure that WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE is set to "never". That should fix the problems.
In the version of Bidule used for the guide, this function didn't exist yet. I wanted to update the guide, but I get all kind of remarks about a ""too long message" and cannot save it.....

good luck and kind regards,

EoH

ursamtl

1st September 2004, 21:10

Hi AI,

For a graphic that shows the quick solution to this problem, see Step 1 of http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79862. If you follow the directions there, you'll come up with a file that will work fine in SurCode.:)

Hope this helps.

Steve.

AI_Warrior

2nd September 2004, 00:40

1st of all thanks for the so quick help
Im sory that there was already an answer for my question, and i repeated.(im new in this thread)
You were right about my problem but now i have another but just in Surcode. And i think its nasty:
Now i load the wavs(ok) but when i set encode he says "Parallel port lock required to encode"
Now this time i checked the web for this issue and nothing.
By the way when i tried de-activate the parallel port the blue screen showed up and system crashed

Can u help m?

ursamtl

2nd September 2004, 01:27

Originally posted by AI_Warrior
1st of all thanks for the so quick help
Im sory that there was already an answer for my question, and i repeated.(im new in this thread)
You were right about my problem but now i have another but just in Surcode. And i think its nasty:
Now i load the wavs(ok) but when i set encode he says "Parallel port lock required to encode"
Now this time i checked the web for this issue and nothing.
By the way when i tried de-activate the parallel port the blue screen showed up and system crashed

Can u help m?
Do you have a legal copy of SurCode? If so, be sure the dongle is properly installed. If it is and you still get the problem, contact SurCode. If you're using an illegal version well they're often tend unstable.

AI_Warrior

6th September 2004, 23:56

Well i reinstaled the program and all went fine but.....i only hear noise. I tried all possible donfigurations. I even tried BeSweet to make the ac3 but nothing..
Everything is alright but the dts/ac3 encoding dont work.

I only ambisonics wonking in pc(WAV)...and i can say its quite impressive, using the realtime DD5.1 provided by nforce(wich has not the briliance of DTS).

Please help m. Its only this that dont work
By the way is there any other DTS encoder than Surcode?

Greetz, and thanks in advance

ursamtl

7th September 2004, 20:40

Originally posted by AI_Warrior
Well i reinstaled the program and all went fine but.....i only hear noise. I tried all possible donfigurations. I even tried BeSweet to make the ac3 but nothing..
Everything is alright but the dts/ac3 encoding dont work.

I only ambisonics wonking in pc(WAV)...and i can say its quite impressive, using the realtime DD5.1 provided by nforce(wich has not the briliance of DTS).

Please help m. Its only this that dont work
By the way is there any other DTS encoder than Surcode?

Greetz, and thanks in advance

AI, if you didn't get either the DTS or AC3 encoding to work, then what you were hearing was not "realtime DD5.1" but some simulation provided by nforce.

I haven't heard of any other DTS encoder. Keep trying Besweet AC3Machine. It should work. Don't give up!

Schwa226

19th September 2004, 12:59

Hi all!

I build a installation routine what will install all of needed programs and files for the stereo to 5.1 AC3 conversation.

The routine will include:
Sonic Foundry Soft Encode
Plogue Bidule
BeSweet
SSRC
Layouts, Groups and Plugins from the server http://www.needfulthings.webhop.org/

Also a WIN32 GUI to handle Bidule,BeSweet,SSRC and Sonic will be included (still in development).

I already have contact with Daphy about uploading/testing the routine.

For more information: carmenelectra_gc@yahoo.de

schwa226

ursamtl

19th September 2004, 15:58

Originally posted by Schwa226
Hi all!

I build a installation routine what will install all of needed programs and files for the stereo to 5.1 AC3 conversation.

The routine will include:
Sonic Foundry Soft Encode
Plogue Bidule
BeSweet
SSRC
Layouts, Groups and Plugins from the server http://www.needfulthings.webhop.org/

Also a WIN32 GUI to handle Bidule,BeSweet,SSRC and Sonic will be included (still in development).

I already have contact with Daphy about uploading/testing the routine.

For more information: carmenelectra_gc@yahoo.de

schwa226

This is a most welcome initiative that will help a lot of newcomers. Well done!

You might want to include AC3Enc since SoftEncode is no longer available and some people are not comfortable using pirated software.

Another suggestion would be to read the registry key for the current VSTPlugins directory and install any plugins there. Then the user could be reminded in a prompt or guide to change the Plogue VSTPlugins folder to point to it. In this way, those of us who have other VSTs installed will have access to all our VST plugins from all hosts. It could be argued that one can always have supplementary VST plugin directories in hosts such as Cubase and Nuendo, but this approach doesn't give Plogue access to plugins outside of its own directory.

I look forward to checking out your routine!

Regards,
Steve.