Inexpensive BD-R Media

[jdobbs]

With BD Rebuilder getting fairly stable now (especially for BD-25 backups) I thought I'd start a thread where we can post our experiences with media that's available and help each other find good deals.

In the past I'd been sticking mainly to Ritek BD-R media, but I recently decided to try and started using these Optical Quantum discs (http://www.meritline.com/optical-quantum-4x-blu-ray-white-inkjet-oqbdr04ipw---p-32886.aspx). So far my luck has been good -- not bad for $79 for a cakebox of 25 ($3.16 each). I haven't hit a bad one yet after about half of one stack (that could be dumb luck), I'll update this post if if I do.

Note: I have no affilliation with MERITLINE -- and I would expect that anyone else posting stick by that rule... otherwise this thread could become a SPAM nightmare and I'll have to close it.

[Capsbackup]

I have tried RiData 4x BD-R and Memorex 4x BD-R ( which has the same mfg ID as the RiData, just Blue in color), with no problems.
Found RiData for $35.00 for a 15 pack spindle, and Memorex for $40.00 for a 15 pack spindle. Now that I know Memorex is the same mfg., I probably won't pay more for the color.
It's funny, I will never buy anything but Verbatims for my DVD media, but was willing to try these for BD-R. Verbatim 10 pack spindle goes for $50.00. ( Fry's ). Next purchase I will try Verbatims, but I am uncertain if this will be necessary for BD media. I will be curious of others opinions.
A very good thread to start. :goodpost:

[GaPony]

I've used several brands of BD-R media and have had great success with all of them, to be honest. Brands that I wouldn't touch to copy a DVD have all proven to be reliable for BD-R.

Lately, I've been using the Blaze 4x BD-R from shop4tech simply because of the price... I've used just over 30 discs with no coasters and excellant playback.

$3.19 ea. for 10 packs ($31.90)

$3.09 ea. for a 20 pack ($61.80)

$2.99 ea. for a 100 pack ($299.00) for the truely dedicated user.

All have free shipping.

They have the Ritek (RITEK-BR-2-00) media code.

http://www.shop4tech.com/item7856.html

I have no affiliation with shop4tech.com and if I find it cheaper someplace my loyalty will vanish. :) Unless I run into problems, I'll continue to buy whatever is cheapest on the day I order.

[Ghitulescu]

Just out of curiosity, how do you check their quality?

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=20888&PageId=0

[GaPony]

cdrinfo.com and similar places have proprietary software along with other professional software for checking the quality. I just use my eyes and ears.

[cybercurves]

There's a place called megamediamall.com that has BD-R media for as low as $2.59 per disc or $64.25 for 25.

http://www.mediamegamall.com/blank-media-bluray-discs-c-29_139.html

[jdobbs]

There's a place called megamediamall.com that has BD-R media for as low as $2.59 per disc or $64.25 for 25.

http://www.mediamegamall.com/blank-media-bluray-discs-c-29_139.html Have you tried the Mega Media discs? I thought the listing for 250 discs @2.59 ea plus a free disc printer was interesting -- especially since the discs were printable silver laquer.

[cybercurves]

Have you tried the Mega Media discs? I thought the listing for 250 discs @2.59 ea plus a free disc printer was interesting -- especially since the discs were printable silver laquer.

I haven't tried Mega Media discs, so I don't know how reliable they are.

[shamoo]

can someone tell why verbatim is the best for dvd's but it seems it doesn't matter what BD media you use? i know verbatim are made better for dvd but is there no such issue with blu-ray? at the moment i have only used verbatim BD 25, and have had no problems but at about £5 per disc ($8) so if there is no difference in what disc to use then i could save myself some money, or if anyone knows where to get cheap disc that are either in the uk or deliver to uk..
thanks

[jdobbs]

can someone tell why verbatim is the best for dvd's but it seems it doesn't matter what BD media you use? i know verbatim are made better for dvd but is there no such issue with blu-ray? at the moment i have only used verbatim BD 25, and have had no problems but at about £5 per disc ($8) so if there is no difference in what disc to use then i could save myself some money, or if anyone knows where to get cheap disc that are either in the uk or deliver to uk..
thanks Interesting point. I had lots of issues with "cheaper" DVD+-R's and went to and stuck (to this day) with Verbatims -- but my experience so far on the BD-R side is that the manufacturer doesn't seem to make a whole lot of difference.

It could be the standards required for Blu-ray certification are higher.

Of course I'm confident some cheap-o manufacturer will eventually prove me wrong... ;)

[GaPony]

I'm pretty sure that everyone is manufacturing to the original specs for BD-R media, so quality is pretty uniform. Once some "College Boy" figures out a way to cut some corners and save a few cents, we'll see prices... and quality drop, I'm sure.

Back in the day, there were only a few manufacturers of DVD media and quality wasn't an issue, but prices were relatively high. You can see where that went. BD-R will be no different once its widely used on PCs. Right now we're in an extremely low percentage of the population. Very few people actually burn BD-R media on their PCs.

[GaPony]

Have you tried the Mega Media discs? I thought the listing for 250 discs @2.59 ea plus a free disc printer was interesting -- especially since the discs were printable silver laquer.

That looks like a Primera Signature Z1, or Teac P11 Thermal Disc printer. I have the Casio version and it works very well for people like me, who can't write legibly with a Sharpie.

You can always forego the expense of buying 250 discs and just buy it for $90 online. :) Check the specs if you use a 64-bit OS, my Casio doesn't have 64-bit drivers.

[pbeumer2001]

I live in Europe and I have done over 300 copies now. About 5 of them are bad copies.

I`ve used MediaRange in the past. 25 euro for 10. That`s about 35 USD

Now I use Variox. The are 20 euro for 10. That`s 28,60 USD


Only reason I`m burning on Variox is the price. The quality is the same.

My burnspeed is 2x max. Higher than 2x made some discs not playable in some players

[GaPony]

Now that's where the issues are! Standalone Players! The quality and standards used in manufacturing are all over the place.

[pbeumer2001]

Now that's where the issues are! Standalone Players! The quality and standards used in manufacturing are all over the place.

Yep,

Best players on the market for me are: PS3 and LG BD370.

I`ve tested a Panasonic player. Godfather part 2 and 3 work great but part 1 not!!! All three went through rebuilder with the same settings.

PS3 an LG BD370 will play everything!!!

[jdobbs]

That looks like a Primera Signature Z1, or Teac P11 Thermal Disc printer. I have the Casio version and it works very well for people like me, who can't write legibly with a Sharpie.

You can always forego the expense of buying 250 discs and just buy it for $90 online. :) Check the specs if you use a 64-bit OS, my Casio doesn't have 64-bit drivers. I have an Epson R380 I use right now to print on DVD/CD/BD. Pretty good deal, though when you can get your BD-R discs for $2.59 ea and a $90 printer is thrown in. Of course $650 is a lot to outlay at once -- and the price of discs will probably be down to $1 ea by the time you use all 250 of them. :)

[Mediogre]

For inexpensive media, Fry's always have the RiData 4x blanks on sale for $2.33 apiece (well once a month or so).
http://www.frys.com/product/5900884?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

For top quality media, I buy directly from Japan in bulk. Even with international shipping charges, they are still cheaper. The TDK blanks linked below come out to $3.50 apiece with all charges included. Not bad for 4x discs with hard coat. If the link doesn't work, search the site for "tdk blu-ray 120". The downside is you have to buy 120 at a time.
http://en.item.rakuten.com/toyooka/10000775/sn=toyooka:tdk-brd25pwb20ps-120&vm=2&f=1&sid=190234&k=tdk+blu-ray+120

[Wombler]

Is there any software available yet to do quality scans on Blu-ray burns in a similar fashion to DVD media scans (that show up PIF and PIE spikes etc)?


Wombler

[GaPony]

I don't know of any, but just like with DVDs the proof is in the viewing. I find that software like Nero CD/DVD speed are very subjective based on the player itself. I've had plenty of discs that scan poorly and playback perfectly, others than scan well on one drive and poorly on another drive, so I let my eyes be the judge. :)

[Wolfe999]

@ Mediogre: Thank you very much for the Rakuten link. I was a little bit afraid and "only" bought 80 TDK's. Indeed it's cheap. Though I still haven't received the e-mail with the definitive shipping expenses, I think the end price for each BD-R will be around €2,60. Unimaginable prices to buy from Europe... at least to my knowledge. Cross my fingers they are good media (they are manufactured by Imation).

Just a sidenote about Verbatim. Yeah, they used to be the "shangri-la" of DVD and CD media... but lately I was unlucky enough to get a batch manufactured in India by Moses Baer that were absolute s**t. In some places, among them Netsoftmedia-dot-com, in the USA, they sell only Verbs made in Singapore. Go always for those.

Regards and thanx again :-D.

PS: If I'm satisfied with these BD-R, I'm sure will buy often from Japan

[sethk]

Only the DVD+R DL Verbatims are still made in Singapore, and even then, not all DL packs sold in the US are from Singapore. You can check out the CDFreaks media forum for more information on how to spot them and where to get them from.

[bobrap]

Been without internet since Friday and have been thinking all weekend (yea, my head hurts). I'm playing with the idea to get a BD burning now that media is getting a little cheaper. Any suggestions for a good burner, or, should I just hang with BD9? Sorry if this was the wrong place to ask. Thanks for any advice.:confused:

[GaPony]

The LG GGW-H20L has served me well, but I don't burn nearly as much to BD-R since the BD9s work so well. I haven't even used the BD9 method as much lately, since I figured out how to stream my Blu-Ray movies to my PS3. :)

Technology marches forward. I may be disc-less soon! ;)

[DaMacFunkin]

Ive been using a piccasso silver printable disk (Richoh media code) @ £15 for a tub of 10, all burned at 4x and play back no probs on my Pannasonic.
get em from scan. Previous to that was using Traxdata FF Printable (Ritek media code) burned at 4x with no probs, and have also had some unbranded printables (Philips media code) all burned at 4x no probs. Luckily i don't think princo are still around so cheap blu-ray media may stay good quality ;-)

[canuckerfan]

any Canadians ordering around here?

[DVD Maniac]

@ Mediogre: Thank you very much for the Rakuten link. I was a little bit afraid and "only" bought 80 TDK's. Indeed it's cheap. Though I still haven't received the e-mail with the definitive shipping expenses, I think the end price for each BD-R will be around €2,60. Unimaginable prices to buy from Europe... at least to my knowledge. Cross my fingers they are good media (they are manufactured by Imation).

Just a sidenote about Verbatim. Yeah, they used to be the "shangri-la" of DVD and CD media... but lately I was unlucky enough to get a batch manufactured in India by Moses Baer that were absolute s**t. In some places, among them Netsoftmedia-dot-com, in the USA, they sell only Verbs made in Singapore. Go always for those.

Regards and thanx again :-D.

PS: If I'm satisfied with these BD-R, I'm sure will buy often from Japan

Interesting dabate because I have never burnt one yet! Why Bother?

1.5TB SATA 3GB Int...... £78 (Including Postage!)
..................................£0.05 per GB or...
..................................£1.32 for a 25GB Backup or ...
..................................£0.47 for a 9GB Backup

vs

Budget 25GB BD-R (Datawrite).....£2.50 per disc...

OK so you can buy slighthly cheaper imported as the above source mentiones @ Euro 2.60 (£2.28) but its still a no brainer to use HDD. Let's assume that BR-R blanks eventually come down in price to match or challenge HDD £/$ per GB. You still have all the hassle of never ending coasters, quality testing (apparently in its infancy with BD-R). I much prefer my new tried and tested setup - 1GB or 1.5GB HDD + USB Docking Station + PC Softplayer - no coasters, no wasting time with quality checks and burning, easy simple and reliable AND CHEAPER! I tend to backup to 9GB (my eyes can see no difference) that's about 115 Movies per 1TB HDD and of course dual layer DVD blanks are even MORE expensive per GB so the economics still swing in favour of HDD

Why not?

HDD's die eventually. Yes they do, (none of mine ever have btw) but the modern ones have BIOS level error warnings and if you are that paranoid there's software out there to run diagnostics to trap imminent failures

Portability. Answer - buy external HDD's (still cheaper £ per GB!)

[Ghitulescu]

Is there any software available yet to do quality scans on Blu-ray burns in a similar fashion to DVD media scans (that show up PIF and PIE spikes etc)?


Wombler

Yes there are!

http://www.cdrlabs.com/forums/test-results-bluray-dvd-burners-and-media-t21949.html

I know I had another link posted, I spent almost one hour screening my posts, no chance...

Got it -> http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Print.aspx?ArticleId=20888

[EdoNork]

since I figured out how to stream my Blu-Ray movies to my PS3. :)

Any link? Thank you.

[Wombler]

Yes there are!

http://www.cdrlabs.com/forums/test-results-bluray-dvd-burners-and-media-t21949.html

I know I had another link posted, I spent almost one hour screening my posts, no chance...

Got it -> http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Print.aspx?ArticleId=20888

Very interesting Ghitulescu!

So I wonder why people aren't posting scans as it would be a lot more accurate of judging budget media than saying 'this one works' or 'doesn't work'?


Wombler

[GaPony]

since I figured out how to stream my Blu-Ray movies to my PS3.

Any link? Thank you.

Here ya go. :) http://code.google.com/p/ps3mediaserver/

If you have a decent network and a PS3, there is virtually no configuration required..

[GaPony]

Very interesting Ghitulescu!

So I wonder why people aren't posting scans as it would be a lot more accurate of judging budget media than saying 'this one works' or 'doesn't work'?


Wombler

I disagree. Knowing from firsthand experiences that such and such a media works well with a perticular burner or player, is much more useful in the real world than software tests that are most usually geared to a particular set of drives. The numbers produced by these software test are fine for geeks, but not the average Joe, just trying to make a copy of his Blu-Ray or DVD movie. Besides, being totally arbitrary, they do nothing in determining whether any problem is from the media, the firmware used by the burner, or the burner/player itself.

I'd much rather hear... I bought a 20 pack of 123 brand media and they burned well on my xyz brand burner and played back beautifully on my ABC brand/model standalone player.... or didn't, as the case may be.

[GaPony]

Interesting dabate because I have never burnt one yet! Why Bother?

1.5TB SATA 3GB Int...... £78 (Including Postage!)
..................................£0.05 per GB or...
..................................£1.32 for a 25GB Backup or ...
..................................£0.47 for a 9GB Backup

vs

Budget 25GB BD-R (Datawrite).....£2.50 per disc...

OK so you can buy slighthly cheaper imported as the above source mentiones @ Euro 2.60 (£2.28) but its still a no brainer to use HDD. Let's assume that BR-R blanks eventually come down in price to match or challenge HDD £/$ per GB. You still have all the hassle of never ending coasters, quality testing (apparently in its infancy with BD-R). I much prefer my new tried and tested setup - 1GB or 1.5GB HDD + USB Docking Station + PC Softplayer - no coasters, no wasting time with quality checks and burning, easy simple and reliable AND CHEAPER! I tend to backup to 9GB (my eyes can see no difference) that's about 115 Movies per 1TB HDD and of course dual layer DVD blanks are even MORE expensive per GB so the economics still swing in favour of HDD

Why not?

HDD's die eventually. Yes they do, (none of mine ever have btw) but the modern ones have BIOS level error warnings and if you are that paranoid there's software out there to run diagnostics to trap imminent failures

Portability. Answer - buy external HDD's (still cheaper £ per GB!)

That's great for streaming movies or playing on the PC, but it sure is hard to stick a hard drive into the disc tray of my uncle's Blu-Ray player... :)

Multiple external HDDs are a waste of money and space. The true "best practice" would be to use an external HDD docking station and forget USB, that's soooo 2005. Use eSATA if at all possible and buy a dock that supports both formats. ;)

Even better, use an old PC to build a Home Server and make all your movies available to all your networked devices, and protect the data your harddrives from failure with redundancy. To reproduce 115 9GB copies from a failed HDD, at 4hrs a pop, would be 460hrs... What's your time worth? The convience of the server over the long run is impossible to calculate.

[Capsbackup]

@GaPony;
Multiple external HDDs are a waste of money and space. The true "best practice" would be to use an external HDD docking station and forget USB, that's soooo 2005. Use eSATA if at all possible and buy a dock that supports both formats.
I'm with you there! Vantec,( http://www.vantecusa.com/front/product/pro_list/70) makes this type, and it works great. The price of SATA drives is very reasonable too. Samsung 1.5TB for $99.00, Seagate 1.5TB for $114.00 ( Fry's). :cool:

[jdobbs]

@GaPony;

I'm with you there! Vantec,( http://www.vantecusa.com/front/product/pro_list/70) makes this type, and it works great. The price of SATA drives is very reasonable too. Samsung 1.5TB for $99.00, Seagate 1.5TB for $114.00 ( Fry's). :cool: I'll tell you, though. I have both (external USB2 and SATA) and at least on my system they seem to transfer at about the same speed...

[GaPony]

I'll tell you, though. I have both (external USB2 and SATA) and at least on my system they seem to transfer at about the same speed...

I'm afraid you may have a serious hardware issue. There is virtually no difference in data transfer of an eSATA and an internal SATA. USB 2.0 and even Firewire can't touch it! SATA/eSATA are about 6x faster than USB 2.0 in everyday use...not just some benchmark test.

In some activities it doesn't matter much. If you're talking about using BD-Rebuilder to an external USB drive vs. an eSATA drive, you might be correct, but its not the same thing. An eSATA DVD burner is alot faster than a USB DVD burner... in terms of burner speeds. If you copy 8GB of data to/from a USB HDD to your PC's internal drive and then that same data using an eSATA HDD, you'll be tempted to throw the USB drive into the closest dumpster.

I have to tell you that your software has cost me a ton of money... I keep all the original ripped movies and all the BD-Rebuilder copies on hard drives... along with the BD25 or BD9 copies on disc. I used to be blissfully ignorant that a Blu-Ray could even be copied. Now here I am 20 (1TB and 1.5TB) drives later....... :D j/k

[DVD Maniac]

I disagree. Knowing from firsthand experiences that such and such a media works well with a perticular burner or player, is much more useful in the real world than software tests that are most usually geared to a particular set of drives. The numbers produced by these software test are fine for geeks, but not the average Joe, just trying to make a copy of his Blu-Ray or DVD movie. Besides, being totally arbitrary, they do nothing in determining whether any problem is from the media, the firmware used by the burner, or the burner/player itself.

I'd much rather hear... I bought a 20 pack of 123 brand media and they burned well on my xyz brand burner and played back beautifully on my ABC brand/model standalone player.... or didn't, as the case may be.

Its for this precise "random" results iv'e switched to an HDD storage regime. I'm not convinced consumer BD Blanks are universally "higher" in quality than their DVD equivilants or ever will be. Recording onto a DVD blank is, and still remains a lottery in my experience regardless of how much you pay or what research you make on mutually compatible burners, blanks and players. I have lost count of the number of discs i've burnt on high quality media which pass so called quality tests with flying colours only to discover flaws when played first time or else play fine (once) then crap out on you on a future viewing.

For me, HDD is the way to go as per my previous post, cheaper, more reliable and absolutely less hassle all round. BD Blank suppliers can keep there £3.00 rip offs!

[EdoNork]

since I figured out how to stream my Blu-Ray movies to my PS3.



Here ya go. :) http://code.google.com/p/ps3mediaserver/

If you have a decent network and a PS3, there is virtually no configuration required..

=h! Thanks.
I use it. I didn't know it cans stream BD too. I will try.

[bobrap]

Got to ask the dumb question of the day.:D How much quality difference is there in playback between a standalone BD player and connecting your PC to a TV?

[Wolfe999]

@DVD Maniac: I've seen this debate before and it all falls on personal tastes. :)

I'm old fashioned enough to like my movies on a disc, see the case and enjoy the beauty of a custom cover. Besides, I still haven't found a SW player that plays absolutely any movie without giving a problem with this or that.

So, for me it's the DVD, or BD-R in this case. For me in this case, the money difference is not that big enough as to make me want to change. But I'm happy you are happy with your HDD and that you save money with that. And I mean it, no irony intended

Regards :)

Edit: Forgot to say that HDD die... and mine have died on me several times. Another reason that makes it not worthwhile for me.

[GaPony]

Here ya go. :) http://code.google.com/p/ps3mediaserver/

If you have a decent network and a PS3, there is virtually no configuration required..

=h! Thanks.
I use it. I didn't know it cans stream BD too. I will try.

Here's how I do it... I use DB-Rebuilder to make a Movie Only copy to BD-9, then I extract the 00000.m2ts file and rename to the name of the movie (ie. Gladiator.m2ts). I move that file into a shared folder and also put a .jpg of the front cover (ie. Gladiator.jpg) into the same folder. The PS3 lists the movie with a picture. I get about 175 Blu-Ray movies on a 1.5TB HDD (using BD-9 sizing).

I sacrifice a couple things in my method. I don't keep any subtitles when I use BD-Rebuilder and the PS3 can't figure out how to jump chapters for a .m2ts file, but the "Jump To" feature works on most movies. Its not perfect, but works "well enough" for the time being. The audio & video is great, but the mechanics still need a little work.

Don't get me wrong guys... I still use plenty of BD-R and DL DVD media. This is just something I'm working on for the future and mostly stream movies suitable for my (2 y/o) grandson, since he seems to have permant sticky fingers which he likes to rub all over the shiny discs. :eek:

I'm still in the constant hunt for reliable, but inexpensive media. :) Currrently www.shop4tech.com has a $17% off everything sale and has some great prices on BD-R media, as well as DVD media. It ends 09-07-09. Use Promo Code ES17 at checkout

[Capsbackup]

I'll tell you, though. I have both (external USB2 and SATA) and at least on my system they seem to transfer at about the same speed...

I have noticed a big difference in transfer times. I use my internal HD, which I rip the original Blu-Ray to and reencode with BD-RB, then transfer to my ESATA HD for long term storage. Much faster this way then with USB2.0. I have been keeping all my original rips too, like GaPony does, and maybe will have to look into the PS3 some day. :p
For now, I'm content on BD-5/9 and BD-R/RE.
Besides, I would NOT want to miss out on all this fun were having backing up/developing BD-RB, and for that we need to BURN!! :D

[GaPony]

Like I said Capsbackup... I still do plenty of burning, I've just added the additional excitement of streaming! :D I'll have my own little personal version of NetFlix around here soon! :p The good news is that BD-Rebuilder has functionality far beyond just copying and burning... as if that wasn't enough. :)

[jdobbs]

I'm afraid you may have a serious hardware issue. There is virtually no difference in data transfer of an eSATA and an internal SATA. USB 2.0 and even Firewire can't touch it! SATA/eSATA are about 6x faster than USB 2.0 in everyday use...not just some benchmark test.

In some activities it doesn't matter much. If you're talking about using BD-Rebuilder to an external USB drive vs. an eSATA drive, you might be correct, but its not the same thing. An eSATA DVD burner is alot faster than a USB DVD burner... in terms of burner speeds. If you copy 8GB of data to/from a USB HDD to your PC's internal drive and then that same data using an eSATA HDD, you'll be tempted to throw the USB drive into the closest dumpster.

I have to tell you that your software has cost me a ton of money... I keep all the original ripped movies and all the BD-Rebuilder copies on hard drives... along with the BD25 or BD9 copies on disc. I used to be blissfully ignorant that a Blu-Ray could even be copied. Now here I am 20 (1TB and 1.5TB) drives later....... :D j/k You may want to do some testing -- as there's a huge difference as to what specs say and what really happens in a Windows environment. I get about the same speed if I copy from SATA to SATA drive (both internal) and if I copy from USB2. In both cases when copying a ripped BD directory, I get a true throughput of around 16MB/sec. I guess it could be hardware -- but is seems to be consistent across all four of my working/testing computers using Explorer to copy... the external USB2 drives I have all have SATA physical drives inside them anyway -- and cracking them open and installing them internally (as I have done) didn't make a bit of difference in speed.

As for burners/BD drives -- I only have one and it is SATA so I can't really make any comparisons... :)

Of course this is just my humble opinion and my humble experience.

You think the software has cost you a ton of money? In addition to the wall of drives I have now so I can keep copies online for testing -- and all the movies I buy just so I can find bugs in them (even though some pretty much suck) -- I'll need two or three years of donations just to break even... :)

Hmmm... I hope my wife isn't reading this... I'd hate to have to admit to it!

[GaPony]

I think that goes along with what I was saying. For this purpose of using BD-Rebuilder, there probably won't be much, if any difference. The output of BD-Rebuilder isn't very fast. The same is true of copying from a DVD drive to the internal or external hard drives, the DVD drive is the limiting factor. If, on the other hand you copy from the internal hard drives, to an external hard drive, say like in backing up your C: drive to an external. You'll see a huge difference between USB and eSATA. A SATA interface with a USB connection, is still USB speed. Its not about the internal connections of the enclosure, but about the connection to the PC. You have an eSATA port on the PC in order to get the enhanced speed. I'll run a few different scenarios with an enclosure that has both a USB connection and an eSATA connection and post the comparison in a new thread.... since its definitely off topic for this thread. :)

[jdobbs]

I think that goes along with what I was saying. For this purpose of using BD-Rebuilder, there probably won't be much, if any difference. The output of BD-Rebuilder isn't very fast. The same is true of copying from a DVD drive to the internal or external hard drives, the DVD drive is the limiting factor. If, on the other hand you copy from the internal hard drives, to an external hard drive, say like in backing up your C: drive to an external. You'll see a huge difference between USB and eSATA. A SATA interface with a USB connection, is still USB speed. Its not about the internal connections of the enclosure, but about the connection to the PC. You have an eSATA port on the PC in order to get the enhanced speed. I'll run a few different scenarios with an enclosure that has both a USB connection and an eSATA connection and post the comparison in a new thread.... since its definitely off topic for this thread. :)When I say I copy from drive to drive internally -- I mean from an SATA HDD to a SATA HDD. It copies at the same rate as from a USB-2 External to a SATA HDD. The resulting "true throughput rate" of 16MB per second is significantly below the highest possible throughput rate of either of the standards -- it comes out to about 168Mbs, and USB-2 should be able to handle (theoretically) up to around 400Mbs. I'm guessing it's limited by seek times, Microsoft overhead, latency, whatever -- but it's a lot less than either of the standards should accomodate.

[Capsbackup]

Two recent examples I tested:
Internal SATA 7200RPM HD to ESATA Vantec SATA/USB2.0 HD Dock. Using the ESATA connector for both tests:
30.6GB took 8min. 4sec.
42.9GB took 11min. 37sec.
This, though just copy/paste from Internal HD to ESATA, is many times faster than if through the USB cable. :)

Hmmm... I hope my wife isn't reading this... I'd hate to have to admit to it!
I've already been discovered by mine, but it wasn't here at Doom9. The mail just isn't reliable, and CC statements are hard to cover up when she gets the mail first! :p

[jdobbs]

Two recent examples I tested:
Internal SATA 7200RPM HD to ESATA Vantec SATA/USB2.0 HD Dock. Using the ESATA connector for both tests:
30.6GB took 8min. 4sec.
42.9GB took 11min. 37sec.
This, though just copy/paste from Internal HD to ESATA, is many times faster than if through the USB cable. :)


I've already been discovered by mine, but it wasn't here at Doom9. The mail just isn't reliable, and CC statements are hard to cover up when she gets the mail first! :pIt's about 4 times faster than either my SATA or USB2. But it's still 64MB/s which is only 28% faster than the theoretical maximum transfer rate of a USB-2 interface. The largest part of the difference is probably in the drives themselves (yours and mine).

[DVD Maniac]

@DVD Maniac: I've seen this debate before and it all falls on personal tastes. :)

I'm old fashioned enough to like my movies on a disc, see the case and enjoy the beauty of a custom cover. Besides, I still haven't found a SW player that plays absolutely any movie without giving a problem with this or that.

So, for me it's the DVD, or BD-R in this case. For me in this case, the money difference is not that big enough as to make me want to change. But I'm happy you are happy with your HDD and that you save money with that. And I mean it, no irony intended

Regards :)

Edit: Forgot to say that HDD die... and mine have died on me several times. Another reason that makes it not worthwhile for me.

Well I hope your optical discs you have access to are more reliable long term than the ones I have tried :) Never had an HDD fail on me yet, but if I had £1 for every optical coaster or 2nd time around failure i've had I would have enough money to buy every single Blu-ray ever released! I hear you on the case and cover thing but its all just to much frustration and effort for me.

[jdobbs]

Let's get off this subject, ok? Each person has the right to use whatever media/interface they want.

Everybody's right on this one. Because the method you prefer (personally) is the one that is obviously right for you.

My personal preference is to capture each individual frame and print it to a sheet of paper so I can play back the movie by flipping through it with my thumb. I've never had a single sheet go bad and it has never failed due to power outage. None of you high-tech'ers can make that claim.

This post is NOT directed at anyone in particular. Just to be fair, I know I'm just as guilty as everyone else in pulling this thread off topic.

[DVD Maniac]

Let's get off this subject, ok? Each person has the right to use whatever media/interface they want.

Everybody's right on this one. Because the method you prefer (personally) is the one that is obviously right for you.

My personal preference is to capture each individual frame and print it to a sheet of paper so I can play back the movie by flipping through it with my thumb. I've never had a single sheet go bad and it has never failed due to power outage. None of you high-tech'ers can make that claim.

This post is NOT directed at anyone in particular. Just to be fair, I know I'm just as guilty as everyone else in pulling this thread off topic.

Jdobbs, if your current full time job and / or software development career ever not work out there is always politics :)

Agree with your comments, my posts are just intended to highlight a point that some may have not considered given the mass marketing of blank optical recordable media. In (my) full time job i have seen what goes into the pressed production of original CD/DVD media and I know for a fact that consumer optical media is intended to meet a deliberate inferior standard much like the old days of cassetts tape, VHS etc. Look no further than light bulbs or the car industry to see the same commercial analogy.

HDD's on the other hadn meet an enirely different broad market usage requring higher manufacturing standards and reliability. I'm done with coaster creation weekends - life's tto short! :p

[Chefkoch_ico]

Hi.

To stick with topic, I buy most BD-Rs on ebay.com.

Always imports from Japan. At first Sony BD-R 4x printable.

Later then I switched to TDK BD-R 4x printable (20 pcs in a cakebox). Price is about 4 Dollars including shipping (approx 3 EUR per disc).

For me, living in Europe, a good price.

-----------

My NAS with 3 TB capacity I only use temporary. If I have no discs atm, I can play the ISO images over network in my HTPC (Mediaportal+PowerDVD). But later on I burn the files to BD-R.

Bye

[mariush]

When I say I copy from drive to drive internally -- I mean from an SATA HDD to a SATA HDD. It copies at the same rate as from a USB-2 External to a SATA HDD. The resulting "true throughput rate" of 16MB per second is significantly below the highest possible throughput rate of either of the standards -- it comes out to about 168Mbs, and USB-2 should be able to handle (theoretically) up to around 400Mbs. I'm guessing it's limited by seek times, Microsoft overhead, latency, whatever -- but it's a lot less than either of the standards should accomodate.

To clarify this subject, the theoretic transfer speed of USB2 is 480bmps which is 60MB/s. But transfers are half-duplex, meaning you get up to half of that in each direction so that's a maximum of 30MB/s. Additionally, Windows reserves about 10% of bandwidth for other devices if I remember correctly.

You may be able to increase the speed of transfers by raising the polling rate of the usb connectors but not by much.

So 16MB/s is little, but not that much lower than the maximum possible. If you see speeds higher than that with USB sticks or small devices it's just Windows caching reads and writes.

[DVD Maniac]

To clarify this subject, the theoretic transfer speed of USB2 is 480bmps which is 60MB/s. But transfers are half-duplex, meaning you get up to half of that in each direction so that's a maximum of 30MB/s. Additionally, Windows reserves about 10% of bandwidth for other devices if I remember correctly.

You may be able to increase the speed of transfers by raising the polling rate of the usb connectors but not by much.

So 16MB/s is little, but not that much lower than the maximum possible. If you see speeds higher than that with USB sticks or small devices it's just Windows caching reads and writes.

I have never experienced any issues with SATA / USB 2 docking stations playing back any current HD sources so I can only assume USB 2 has sufficient bandwidth to work in this way with my partucular setup. Had this not worked I always have a spare Internal SATA connector and power lead available patched into the front panel of my MPC but with the obvious downside of Power Down / Up cycles to swap out the HDD. My new MB has an AHCI BIOS which (allegedly) allows for Internal SATA hot swapping but to be honest i've never trusted it enough to try it!

[jdobbs]

To clarify this subject, the theoretic transfer speed of USB2 is 480bmps which is 60MB/s. But transfers are half-duplex, meaning you get up to half of that in each direction so that's a maximum of 30MB/s. Additionally, Windows reserves about 10% of bandwidth for other devices if I remember correctly.

You may be able to increase the speed of transfers by raising the polling rate of the usb connectors but not by much.

So 16MB/s is little, but not that much lower than the maximum possible. If you see speeds higher than that with USB sticks or small devices it's just Windows caching reads and writes. Ok... I have to correct my self here. When I was looking at transfers previously I was measuring from my BD drive to either the USB-2 or SATA. Just to satisfy myself I did a couple of BD copies from SATA to SATA HDDs... No comparison. The SATA drives were well above 45MB/sec (almost 3 times faster than what I'm seeing on the USB-2s). So this time I have to raise the B.S. flag on myself this time. :)


Additional note:
Is that how they measure half-duplex on USB-2? I pretty sure it isn't. Most of the time half-duplex means you can go full speed but only in one direction at a time, not half-speed in two directions. From what I've read, the maximum transfer rate (reality) is about 40MB/sec for a dedicated USB-2 interface on a HDD. 60MB/sec is the maximum theoretical rate, but it can never actually be reached.

[Sophocles]

I went to a debate on this very subject of USB-2 in comparison to SATA II.Speed claims for any format or drive rarely rise to its makers claims.

http://www.rt.db.erau.edu/655s08/655webUSBSAT/index.htm

[Capsbackup]

Back to BD-R media: Memorex 4x BD-R, which has the same mfg ID as the RiData, just Blue in color (Ritek) $29.99 for a 15 pack spindle at Fry's.

[jdobbs]

For you Ritek lovers. (http://www.meritline.com/ritek-ridata-4x-blu-ray-bd-r-white-inkjet-printable-bdr-254-iwcb25---p-34649.aspx). $2.95 ea.

[GaPony]

You gotta love seeing the prices dropping. Maybe BD-Rebuilder's popularity is effecting the market? :D

[SilverBlade]

Yikes, I'm jealous of you Americans..

in Canada, the cheapest BD-R media I've come across is $4 per disc (In Canadian dollars), and that's a brand known as 'Microboards': https://www.blankmedia.ca/prodsubcats.asp?id=171

Anything less the $3 per disc is a bargain for me..

[DVD Maniac]

Yikes, I'm jealous of you Americans..

in Canada, the cheapest BD-R media I've come across is $4 per disc (In Canadian dollars), and that's a brand known as 'Microboards': https://www.blankmedia.ca/prodsubcats.asp?id=171

Anything less the $3 per disc is a bargain for me..

@SilverBlade

Don't be jealous, just get smart, BD-R media is a mugs game. Find yourself a competitive HDD source and waive goodbye to endless coasters and tedious quality checks :). Europe is the same deal, inflated prices indicative of media suppliers manipulated by Holywood lawyers scared shitless of the source of the next gin palace yacht on the med. Use your options :cool:

[GaPony]

Yikes, I'm jealous of you Americans..

in Canada, the cheapest BD-R media I've come across is $4 per disc (In Canadian dollars), and that's a brand known as 'Microboards': https://www.blankmedia.ca/prodsubcats.asp?id=171

Anything less the $3 per disc is a bargain for me..

I wonder what the media code is on their BD-R media. Microboard uses Taiyo Yuden for its DVDs.

[Wolfe999]

@ Mediogre: Thank you very much for the Rakuten link. I was a little bit afraid and "only" bought 80 TDK's. Indeed it's cheap. Though I still haven't received the e-mail with the definitive shipping expenses, I think the end price for each BD-R will be around €2,60. Unimaginable prices to buy from Europe... at least to my knowledge. Cross my fingers they are good media (they are manufactured by Imation).


BEWARE European residents and (I suppose, though I'm not sure) North American residents too. I just received a call from the guy from DHL, the international courier through which the order was sent, from Spain's Customs and I'll have to pay around €90 of customs for the 80 BD-R I bought, so the end price will be around €4 each BD-R. Not too expensive but in no way cheap. I know this is kind of a lottery, because many times I passed customs withouth paying anything... So, you are warned.

Good luck :)

Of course, I won't be buying anymore from Japan. I'll try to find something cheap (difficult) from Europe or from the States, as my sister or I go frequently there and can bring it directly with no customs hassle.

Edit: somo typos

[Chefkoch_ico]

BEWARE European residents and (I suppose, though I'm not sure) North American residents too. I just received a call from the guy from DHL, the international courier through which the order was sent, from Spain's Customs and I'll have to pay around €90 of customs for the 80 BD-R I bought, so the end price will be around €4 each BD-R. Not too expensive but in no way cheap. I know this is kind of a lottery, because many times I passed customs withouth paying anything... So, you are warned.

Good luck :)

Of course, I won't be buying anymore from Japan. I'll try to find something cheap (difficult) from Europe or from the States, as my sister or I go frequently there and can bring it directly with no customs hassle.

Edit: somo typos

Just be careful taht you stay under 150 EUR, below that you dont have to pay customs.

What you need to pay is the tax, but if you get lucky, you dont even have to pay this.

Bye

[hoju3508]

Last day at Fry's (in-store) for Memorex's BD-25 15 pack for $29.99 (~$2 a piece).

[DVD Maniac]

[QUOTE

Of course, I won't be buying anymore from Japan. I'll try to find something cheap (difficult) from Europe or from the States, as my sister or I go frequently there and can bring it directly with no customs hassle.

Edit: somo typos[/QUOTE]

Or you could avoid ALL this hassle, cost, waste of time, being ripped off etc etc by switching to HDD! :)

[Ghitulescu]

Or you could avoid ALL this hassle, cost, waste of time, being ripped off etc etc by switching to HDD! :)

So you can easier loose the whole collection should the HDD fail - and it will as the drives of today are worse built than their predecesors ...

[dazmac]

been using picasso silver inkjet 25gb bd discs all worked flawless £20 for 10

daz

[therat]

I can't believe how cheap Blu-ray 25G media is overseas. Here in Oz it's still too expensive to even bother about thinking a Blu-ray burner. A pack of 5 Verbatim costs $AUD 79.00 :(

No wonder dealers are only selling Blu-ray/DVD combo drives.

cheers

[pbeumer2001]

Here in Holland/Germany the prices are dropping each month. 10 Varion 25 GB now cost 17,50 euro. That`s 25 USD.

[DVD Maniac]

So you can easier loose the whole collection should the HDD fail - and it will as the drives of today are worse built than their predecesors ...

I never once had a (Full) catastrophic HDD failure and ive been through a few as drive capacities have increased and £ per GB has dropped sharply. Sure, the odd partition failure or a bad sector appearing which are all repairable easily. The likelihood of the entire drive failing without warning is for me so unlikely that the benefits out weigh the significant downsides of the optical burning lottery. :rolleyes: Carefully sourced kit with error prediction support and you are sorted. :)

Have you tried playing one of your old discs in your library which you haven't watched for ages, one which played just fine the last time? I've got lots of those - half don't play at all and most have errors on them which seem to get worse over time. Have you counted how many coasters you have burned over time (and all the time wasted in testing and reburning the damn things!) :devil:

Optical storage (at least on consumer blanks) sucks period :p

[jdobbs]

I never once had a (Full) catastrophic HDD failure and ive been through a few as drive capacities have increased and £ per GB has dropped sharply. Sure, the odd partition failure or a bad sector appearing which are all repairable easily. The likelihood of the entire drive failing without warning is for me so unlikely that the benefits out weigh the significant downsides of the optical burning lottery. :rolleyes: Carefully sourced kit with error prediction support and you are sorted. :)

Have you tried playing one of your old discs in your library which you haven't watched for ages, one which played just fine the last time? I've got lots of those - half don't play at all and most have errors on them which seem to get worse over time. Have you counted how many coasters you have burned over time (and all the time wasted in testing and reburning the damn things!) :devil:

Optical storage (at least on consumer blanks) sucks period :p Well for me, at least, the answer is pretty much none and none. If a disc fails to play back typically its caused by a bad drive either during the write or during the read. So I just buy a good quality burner instead of one of the cheap ones (Sony right now).

Optical discs are very, very reliable -- and so are hard drives. So the argument becomes a matter of preference-- and nobody can win an argument over preference.

[Taurus]

I never once had a (Full) catastrophic HDD failure and ive been through a few as drive capacities have increased and £ per GB has dropped sharply. Sure, the odd partition failure or a bad sector appearing which are all repairable easily. The likelihood of the entire drive failing without warning is for me so unlikely that the benefits out weigh the significant downsides of the optical burning lottery. :rolleyes: Carefully sourced kit with error prediction support and you are sorted. :)

Have you tried playing one of your old discs in your library which you haven't watched for ages, one which played just fine the last time? I've got lots of those - half don't play at all and most have errors on them which seem to get worse over time. Have you counted how many coasters you have burned over time (and all the time wasted in testing and reburning the damn things!) :devil:

Optical storage (at least on consumer blanks) sucks period :p

I dont have my camera here at hands,
A picture might give you an impression how durable and longlasting HDDs are :p
Almost one feet high broken HDDs.
And yes, i have some running since 1998 and others died in a 2 years lifespan.
What does this tell you? Nothing is secure. Not your life, nor computers.
It all depends on your backup strategy.
And yes, I'm using DVDs too.
And no, no LAN Partys, no carrying around, bouncing, rocking, etc...

[GaPony]

I use both good burners and good media. The few pennies spent on buying good quality stuff saves time and money in the long run. Except for the first few DVDs I copied as a rookie, when I used cheap media, I haven't had an issue on any DVD copies I've made over the past 5 or 6 years.

I've had hard drives fail, very seldom, but it happens. Backup, backup, and backup. Maintain your system, keep it clean and keep things cool, you won't have many things break prematurely. Using consumer drives in RAID is just asking for trouble. A foot high stack of broken drives tells me you're either doing something wrong, or can't bring yourself to throw anything away. :)

Died in a 2 year lifespan? Sounds like a warranty claim to me.

I keep all my movies on HDD, DVD and Blu-Ray alike. I also put them all on disc. I'm not sure which is backing up which, but I'm confident I can play any movie I have, whenever I want. ;)

[DVD Maniac]

Well for me, at least, the answer is pretty much none and none. If a disc fails to play back typically its caused by a bad drive either during the write or during the read. So I just buy a good quality burner instead of one of the cheap ones (Sony right now).

Optical discs are very, very reliable -- and so are hard drives. So the argument becomes a matter of preference-- and nobody can win an argument over preference.

jdobbs forever the polite mediator! :) Maybe I have just been unlucky, but ive played the high quality / compatible burner + blank + player combo game to death and lost every time. :rolleyes:

Oh look! That disc that played just fine last time on my old DVD set-top refuses to play now. Put the disc back in the same drive that quality checked it last time and oh! what a surprise - full of errors now and a quality control graph looking like a 2-D cross section of the frickin Rocky Mountains! :devil:....Another coaster to add to the pile....:rolleyes:

But like you say, its down to preference....now, where's that pile of coasters I need to shred....:)

[GaPony]

Can you send me some of those coasters? I'm having a party and want my tables to stay tidy. :D

[DVD Maniac]

Can you send me some of those coasters? I'm having a party and want my tables to stay tidy. :D

Sure, hope you gotta lot of BIG tables to cover cos my coaster pile has ice on the top of it and mountain climbers looking for their next big challenge. Have to shake the buggers off it every time I need to move it. :D

[Ghitulescu]

Have you tried playing one of your old discs in your library which you haven't watched for ages, one which played just fine the last time? I've got lots of those - half don't play at all and most have errors on them which seem to get worse over time. Have you counted how many coasters you have burned over time (and all the time wasted in testing and reburning the damn things!) :devil:

1. I did recently a test on my first DVDRs from 2005. Still way below the error margins (PIEs were at the time some 30-60, now 60-90, same PIFs, about the same total errors). Probably another 5 years of carefree storage (PIE<=280, but most devices can endure up to 400 even 600) ...

2. Maybe you should have burned'em at 4x max. I don't care if people say they got good burns at 16x, I burned always at 4x (except for the first ones which were 1x or 2x) and this never failed me. The same goes for CDRs, 1x for audio (sometimes 4x with cheap CDRs, you know, car copies, which usually got scratched much before the dye rots). And try not to pick the best buy brand, keep up with the quality manufacturers ...

3. Coasters I have only occasionally and always at the beginning of the burn which can be traced down to incompatibilities between the drive and the disk. Since I'm collecting them in a spindle I can tell you that I have about 10 in 5 years - I keep them for recovery purposes (data disks).

4. But I have seen the fragility of HDDs several times in my life, including one of mine which hold at the time some 250GB of rare documentaries I've collected from SAT and (luckily) safe copies of DVDs I own. Was a sad loss.

5. Should no manufacturer in 5 years produce DVDRs (and CDRs), maybe I'll move to HDDs (if they will be produced, the tendence is towards flash-media), however no MediaPlayer/MediaTank/etc. I've seen has a comparable image quality to my Pioneer. Which explains why most people convert the DVDs to xvids since they don't see the difference anyway ;)

[DVD Maniac]

1. I did recently a test on my first DVDRs from 2005. Still way below the error margins (PIEs were at the time some 30-60, now 60-90, same PIFs, about the same total errors). Probably another 5 years of carefree storage (PIE<=280, but most devices can endure up to 400 even 600) ...

2. Maybe you should have burned'em at 4x max. I don't care if people say they got good burns at 16x, I burned always at 4x (except for the first ones which were 1x or 2x) and this never failed me. The same goes for CDRs, 1x for audio (sometimes 4x with cheap CDRs, you know, car copies, which usually got scratched much before the dye rots). And try not to pick the best buy brand, keep up with the quality manufacturers ...

3. Coasters I have only occasionally and always at the beginning of the burn which can be traced down to incompatibilities between the drive and the disk. Since I'm collecting them in a spindle I can tell you that I have about 10 in 5 years - I keep them for recovery purposes (data disks).

4. But I have seen the fragility of HDDs several times in my life, including one of mine which hold at the time some 250GB of rare documentaries I've collected from SAT and (luckily) safe copies of DVDs I own. Was a sad loss.

5. Should no manufacturer in 5 years produce DVDRs (and CDRs), maybe I'll move to HDDs (if they will be produced, the tendence is towards flash-media), however no MediaPlayer/MediaTank/etc. I've seen has a comparable image quality to my Pioneer. Which explains why most people convert the DVDs to xvids since they don't see the difference anyway ;)

Well on Point 1 you have kinda backed up what i'm saying - 5 years is not a long time. Besides, read the various threads on the subject and lifespans seem to vary wildly and more annoyingly, player dependent. My old (forgiving) Pioneer player died on me the new one simply refised to play half my collection :mad:

On point 2, ive played that game and tryed all the various combo's of media, burn speed etc which MIGHT work if the manufacturers maintained consistent quality across batches and new brands - they don't. So you may find your winning combination of blank brand, burn speed, buring program, burner, player etc, for a while....... then you are back to the compatibility game again when a a parameter out of your contraol changes...

On point 3 - you deserve a prize! :)

On point 4, use the 3 b's, Brand Choice, Backup (media that is irreplaceable), BLOODY big cooling systems. Iv'e not had an HDD failure in nearly 20 years of building my own PC's :)

On point 5. A mate brought round his brand spanking new Pioneer Blu ay set-top and we ran a blind test of my combo of a backed up AVHCD movie on hard disc / softplayer vs the original Blu Ray on his set top (same monitor). He fianlly admitted he could not tell the difference i in either picture or sound quality. :)

But as jjobbs said its all personal preference...

[jdobbs]

We're getting more-and-more OT here. No more posts on the benefits of hard drives or the weakness/strengths of optical media. This thread is meant as a place where folks can post about deals they've found -- not to argue about media types.

[Capsbackup]

Fry's has 15 pack spindle of Memorex(Ritek) 4x BD-R spindle for $24.99 each.

[vamsiklak]

the day befroe yesterday i got 10pack for 15.00
thats 1.49 apiece its optimum i burnt two discs it works good sofar

[VistaVick]

Those are some improved prices, but I am too used to printing on the labels with my canon.......need some deals on printables.

[Willobee]

the day befroe yesterday i got 10pack for 15.00
thats 1.49 apiece its optimum i burnt two discs it works good sofar

Where did you buy them? What brand?

[JJB]

vamsiklal bought the same ones I did at Fry's. They are branded Optimum but are made by cmc according to the ID code. I have used 6 that were verified by imgburn and all have played back from start to finish with no problems. Fry's also carry's Memorex with a Ritek ID at everyday price of $24.99 for 15@ a disc price of $1.67. I have had no problems with verify or playback with those either.

[Willobee]

@jjb

Thanks for the info. I was buying the Memorex BD-R 25's at Newegg for alot more $. These Memorex BD-R's work great. I burn them at 8x on my Pioneer BDR203. No coasters so far.

[vamsiklak]

Nice
ineed some of those
Now i can burn my 38gb-45gb files from my Hd on 2 bd-r25gb since these are getting lower
I hope i can get these puppies for dollar on black friday

[PhilippeB]

I had used only 2 brands so far, one Verbatim for BD-RE, and Optical Quantum (rated 4x but burns @ 8x on my LG BH08).
It is quite a fun to watch a disc burn at 36.xxx Mb/sec = )

The Verbatim BD-RE detected only at 1x on my burner (what a pain) even if it is sold as 2x. So far, Verbatim sucks.

Absolutly no problem with the discs so far. They are available at cheap price. Check NewEgg (got mine 74$ CAD for printable surface, but you can get the same discs LOGO for 64$ / 25 qty).

Also, they have a printable to hub version, my favarite, but also the most expansive so far. Check them out they sold pretty everywhere.

[jdobbs]

I had used only 2 brands so far, one Verbatim for BD-RE, and Optical Quantum (rated 4x but burns @ 8x on my LG BH08).
It is quite a fun to watch a disc burn at 36.xxx Mb/sec = )

The Verbatim BD-RE detected only at 1x on my burner (what a pain) even if it is sold as 2x. So far, Verbatim sucks.

Absolutly no problem with the discs so far. They are available at cheap price. Check NewEgg (got mine 74$ CAD for printable surface, but you can get the same discs LOGO for 64$ / 25 qty).

Also, they have a printable to hub version, my favarite, but also the most expansive so far. Check them out they sold pretty everywhere.Interesting you'd mention the 1x problem. I had the same problem with my Sony BD-REs. I reformatted them (long format) and they then started working at 2X.

[Capsbackup]

Interesting you'd mention the 1x problem. I had the same problem with my Sony BD-REs. I reformatted them (long format) and they then started working at 2X.

Same here. After a full format, which takes a very long time for me ( almost 2 hours ), now they burn at 2X. :)

[PurpleMan]

Anybody knows where can I get inexpensive BD-R printable media from a website that ships internationally (outside the US) ?

[JJB]

http://lmgtfy.com/

[Capsbackup]

I recently had purchased a 10 pack spindle of Optimum brand 4x BD-R 25GB media for $14.99. It looked like a pretty good deal!
Disc ID: CMCMAG-BA3-00.
Well, only 8 out of 10 discs worked properly, and those 8 also verified correctly with IMGBurn.
Two of the discs would not even start to burn, throwing out an error message. If I ejected the discs and tried again, IMGBurn reported the discs as empty/recordable, but as soon as you clicked burn, it would error out again. They will not write.
I do not believe I will use this brand again, since I have never had a problem with the Memorex/Ritek brand after 45 plus burns. :cool:

[JJB]

What burner? I have used about 4 of the 10 packs from Frys. All have burnt and verified OK with Imgburn. I use a Pioneer BD-205.

[Warbucks81]

For any canucks in this thread, Newegg Canada has the 10 pack of Verbatims 4x for $34.99. I picked up a couple packs when they had a free shipping promo.

[jdobbs]

I bought some of these Ritek BD-Rs (http://www.meritline.com/ritek-ridata-4x-blu-ray-bd-r-white-inkjet-printable-bdr-254-iwcb25---p-34649.aspx) for $2.22 ea (box of 25) and have had good luck so far (I've burned about 20 of them).

[laserfan]

I recently had purchased a 10 pack... It looked like a pretty good deal!
Disc ID: CMCMAG-BA3-00.
Well, only 8 out of 10 discs worked properly, and those 8 also verified correctly with IMGBurn.

What burner?Yeah and have to checked to verify that your burner supports CMCMAG-BA3-00.

[Capsbackup]

Yeah and have to checked to verify that your burner supports CMCMAG-BA3-00.

My burner is a Matshista UJ-225S, which came with my Dell XPS M1530 Laptop.
I'm not sure how to tell if that burner supports what different media, but 8 out of 10 leads me to believe it does, and the media is suspect.

[laserfan]

I'm not sure how to tell if that burner supports what different media, but 8 out of 10 leads me to believe it does, and the media is suspect.You're probably right, but OTOH maybe that's why 2 have failed.

I dunno if MediaCodeSpeedEdit works with your drive, but it looks at firmware to see if specific disc types are supported:

http://ala42.cdfreaks.com/MCSE/MediaCodeSpeedEdit_ScreenShot.png

[laserfan]

I noticed these on Amazon for something like $38 bucks for qty 20, and wonder if anyone here has tried them. I found this document

http://www.verbatim.com/userfiles/file/BDR_LTHCompatibility_2.pdf

which suggests they should work with my LG BD burner, but it's not as clear whether they'll be read by my BD player (which is not on their list).

Anyone here try them? I dunno if the "organic AZO layer" is inferior in some way to the regular "inorganic" type heretofore available, but they are significantly cheaper (best deal I can find on Verb BD-Rs is $29 at newegg for 10).

[datman]

I noticed these on Amazon for something like $38 bucks for qty 20, and wonder if anyone here has tried them. I found this document

http://www.verbatim.com/userfiles/file/BDR_LTHCompatibility_2.pdf

which suggests they should work with my LG BD burner, but it's not as clear whether they'll be read by my BD player (which is not on their list).

Anyone here try them? I dunno if the "organic AZO layer" is inferior in some way to the regular "inorganic" type heretofore available, but they are significantly cheaper (best deal I can find on Verb BD-Rs is $29 at newegg for 10).

I just ordered 20 I'm betting you can't beat it.

[laserfan]

I just ordered 20 I'm betting you can't beat it.Well, by all means report back your results. I suspect that if a player plays recordable DVD-5 and -9 (with AZO ink layer) that it will play the LTH, but... if it doesn't then you've got 19 discs left for data backups huh! :)

[datman]

Well, by all means report back your results. I suspect that if a player plays recordable DVD-5 and -9 (with AZO ink layer) that it will play the LTH, but... if it doesn't then you've got 19 discs left for data backups huh! :)

well just burned one and it plays fine on my computer. I don't have a player.

[laserfan]

Hmm thanks but that doesn't help me. Guess I will buy some blanks and give one a spin on my settop player.

[datman]

I may take a few discs over to best buy (bd5,bd9,bd25) just to test them but that won't be till next week

[rippn]

I bought some of these Ritek BD-Rs (http://www.meritline.com/ritek-ridata-4x-blu-ray-bd-r-white-inkjet-printable-bdr-254-iwcb25---p-34649.aspx) for $2.22 ea (box of 25) and have had good luck so far (I've burned about 20 of them).

I have been using blaze media purchased from shop4tech which are rebadged riteks and not one coaster, or any weird glitches while watching. However my recent blaze media I purchased are now rebadged phillips, I've burned 1 so far and it burned well, but the physical appearance seems lower quality then the riteks. I'm going to return them and buy these (http://www.meritline.com/ritek-ridata-blu-ray-bd-r-4x-25gb-white-inkjet-hub-printable-254-rdiwn-cb25---p-38017.aspx)riteks instead of the ones you linked because the thumbnails on the ones you linked look like they are not full face like the ones I linked and they are the same price..?

[jdobbs]

I have been using blaze media purchased from shop4tech which are rebadged riteks and not one coaster, or any weird glitches while watching. However my recent blaze media I purchased are now rebadged phillips, I've burned 1 so far and it burned well, but the physical appearance seems lower quality then the riteks. I'm going to return them and buy these (http://www.meritline.com/ritek-ridata-blu-ray-bd-r-4x-25gb-white-inkjet-hub-printable-254-rdiwn-cb25---p-38017.aspx)riteks instead of the ones you linked because the thumbnails on the ones you linked look like they are not full face like the ones I linked and they are the same price..?Cool. As you said, they have full-faced ones at that site also -- I just don't personally care for full-face for most discs. I've had a lot of luck with these Riteks -- many, many burned and no coasters as yet. The Optical Quantum discs are good too -- but they're not keeping pace (in terms of price) with the Riteks.

[laserfan]

Cool. As you said, they have full-faced ones at that site also -- I just don't personally care for full-face for most discs.
Whyzzat? Aesthetics only, or some techical reason? I might not have noticed the difference except for these couple posts.

[jdobbs]

Whyzzat? Aesthetics only, or some techical reason? I might not have noticed the difference except for these couple posts. Yes. Aesthetics only. Most disc artwork isn't full-faced, and I like to scan them and print them on the backup (a little anal compulsive for a backup, I know, but I'm weird that way :)). I think other than that they are pretty much the same disc.

[laserfan]

I think other than that they are pretty much the same disc.
Thanks--if I give those a try I will report back results. Hopefully they are the very same formulation.

I am surprised about the good reports on Ritek BD-R; apparently it is a different process/formulation and maybe even a different factory for producing BDs vs. DVD which never seem to get good reviews...

[setarip_old]

@laserfan

Actually, I've been testing the Ritek D/L DVD+R media (under the "Memorex" label) on the basis of "risk versus reward", since the Ritek/Memorex discs can be purchased at about 60% of the typical price for Verbatim D/L DVD+R media.

The results after burning approximately 50 of the Ritek discs have been quite satisfactory with only two coasters (the result of trying to push 8x burning without updating burners)...

[slimm]

Ritek Bd-r's (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817132069&cm_re=blu_ray_media-_-17-132-069-_-Product) for $2.00 each (spindle if 15)

[JJB]

If you have a Frys nearby keep a eye out for their sale on Maxell and Memorex spindle of 15 for $24.99, both are Riteks. They do it every couple of weeks.

[jdobbs]

Ritek Bd-r's (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817132069&cm_re=blu_ray_media-_-17-132-069-_-Product) for $2.00 each (spindle if 15)Cool.

[nelly09]

I purchased 75 optical quantum BD-R and i have backed up every single one without any coasters and no playback problems. Burns at 8x on my LG-BH08 burner so that is great. Ebay has some good buys if you search, i have purchased a few white hub printable ones, dont really know what name brand they are but i have had no issues with playback and quality.

[rippn]

If you have a Frys nearby keep a eye out for their sale on Maxell and Memorex spindle of 15 for $24.99, both are Riteks. They do it every couple of weeks.

The problem with these is they are not inkjet printable, so if this is your need, fry's does not carry any at this time.

[JonRead]

Cheap blu-rays for UK customers : http://www.rivierapublishing.co.uk/acatalog/Blu-Ray_Media.html

[laserfan]

I know we're talking about BD-R here, but just FYI when ordering some BD-R from Meritline.com I came across some Memorex DVD+R DL discs for cheap 50@$35. They are from Taiwan and altho I'm not intimate with Ritek they might be a new formulation as they are 8x discs, RITEK-S04-66. My LG drives can only do 4x with these which is fine cuz I do "half speed" typically anyway to be safe. So far I'm 1 for 1 in getting a perfect verify out of ImgBurn! ;)

[setarip_old]

@laserfan

See my Post#110 in this thread...

[K56]

You guys might want to start testing some of your older burns with BD-R and BD-RE media. We've started getting reports of disks that initially burned well, and had no issues on playback, but are now deteriorating. The first reports were only with Ritek media, sold under various brands, but one of the mods at myce.com is now saying that he has failures in several different types/brands, including the Ritek disks, but also TDK, Panasonic and Verbatim. He has been burning BD-R media for four years now. Apparently the BD-RE disks are showing the most degradation in his collection.

[setarip_old]

@K56

Hi!We've started getting reports of disks that initially burned well, and had no issues on playback, but are now deteriorating.Who is "we"?

[Ghitulescu]

well just burned one and it plays fine on my computer. I don't have a player.

Any burner should recognize its own burned disks.

[Ghitulescu]

@laserfan

Actually, I've been testing the Ritek D/L DVD+R media (under the "Memorex" label) on the basis of "risk versus reward", since the Ritek/Memorex discs can be purchased at about 60% of the typical price for Verbatim D/L DVD+R media.

The results after burning approximately 50 of the Ritek discs have been quite satisfactory with only two coasters (the result of trying to push 8x burning without updating burners)...

A DVDR can be fully tested, a simple "It works" is not a criterium - so how about the PI/PO/PIE/POF/TA/Jitter now and after 1 year?

[robinthehood]

@K56

Hi!Who is "we"?

I Can add to this, i have several (not tested all yet) Traxdata discs that i burnt this time last year (2009) i watched these at the time on my PS3. Now when i go back to watch them again they do not get seen by my PS3! They were burnt with Imgbrn and a Pioneer BDR-202 this same drive does not recognise the discs now either nor does my LG H20L

[setarip_old]

@Ghitulescu

Hi!a simple "It works" is not a criterium - so how about the PI/PO/PIE/POF/TA/Jitter now and after 1 year?To each his own. If it plays without problems, whether 1, 2, or more years after burning, I'm a happy camper. The technical test results which, of course, are subject to the performance of the disc playing hardware as well as the discs themselves means absolutely nothing to me.

If that's your cup of tea, you'd likely enjoy posting and reading the results of others at the sub-forum devoted to such test results at the wings-clipped Digital Digest forum...

BTW - In the 10 or more years since I started burning DVDs, I've not had one subsequent failure of a disc that was initially a good burn. I attribute this to the care and protection - except, of course, the occasional damage and destruction caused by an overly excited grandchild ;>}

[Ghitulescu]

BTW - In the 10 or more years since I started burning DVDs, I've not had one subsequent failure of a disc that was initially a good burn. I attribute this to the care and protection - except, of course, the occasional damage and destruction caused by an overly excited grandchild ;>}

For more than 12 years I burn CDRs, with no failure, and still "young" (low C1/ no C2), and for 8 also DVDRs, again with very low figures. It's also because I care. The only coasters I had were the DVDR DL, that were rejected during the burning.

However, there are people that do not care. Most of them burn the CDRs at 54x (DVDRs at 22x) and don't even consider to click the "Verify after burn" box. If the burner did not yielded any error, then the burn was succesful. And they post their "findings" on various fora, people buy those blanks in good faith - but the OP don't come to say, hey, it's no good after 3weeks, because that would mean they were wrong.

[jdobbs]

The same types of reports started coming in with CD-R and DVD-R discs a year or two after they got popular -- but I never found a single disc that lost data with time. I'll worry about it when it happens -- which I expect to be never.

[K56]

You can find the reports of failures in this thread at myce: http://club.myce.com/f142/my-ritek-2x-bd-rs-all-dead-306492/ And I see reports of failed dvds and cds all the time over there, where the initial burn was good and the data was lost/unreadable later. This is not a truly uncommon event, though of course, I have no way of determining the care used in storage.

[Ghitulescu]

I'll repost this link
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Print.aspx?ArticleId=20888

[jdobbs]

JMHO, but I think the best way to ensure a good quality recording that will playback over time is to invest a few extra dollars in a high quality writer/burner. I would think that to be more likely a cause of issues in the long run than media. But, I guess, anything is possible.

[laserfan]

We talk here about making "backups" but the reality is (or at least "should be") that we are making Primary playback discs i.e. in my case I alter subtitles and fit to 2.35 screens (mostly) but also hate discs that make you wade thru a bunch of crap to get to the movie.

In any case when we go to watch our beloved "backups" and they don't play anymore, then we have the originals to fall back on, don't we.

K56 (from West Texas) reminds me to suggest to everyone that they keep their blanks and their burned discs out of the "reach" of any UV whatsover. I see the OP at myce said he stored his in "light-tight" boxes so maybe that wasn't his problem, but I know for a fact that sunlight destroys everything (not just discs)!

[Capsbackup]

I had recently reported that I had purchased a 10 pack spindle of Optimum brand 4x BD-R ( CMCMAG-BA3-00 ). 2 of the 10 would not even start to burn, the other 8 were fine and also verified with ImgBurn.
Out of curiosity, I mailed the two bad discs with a note to the MFG, who stated they would replace the discs. Four weeks later, they mailed me two more discs.
Well, 1 burned fine and verified, the other would not burn, or started but failed within seconds. So, 9 out of 12 were a success with this brand. :rolleyes:
I have now burned approx. 45 of the Ritek-BR2-00, and all have burned and verified successfully! :)
Now only time will tell the longevity of these burns. :p

[jdobbs]

I had recently reported that I had purchased a 10 pack spindle of Optimum brand 4x BD-R ( CMCMAG-BA3-00 ). 2 of the 10 would not even start to burn, the other 8 were fine and also verified with ImgBurn.
Out of curiosity, I mailed the two bad discs with a note to the MFG, who stated they would replace the discs. Four weeks later, they mailed me two more discs.
Well, 1 burned fine and verified, the other would not burn, or started but failed within seconds. So, 9 out of 12 were a success with this brand. :rolleyes:
I have now burned approx. 45 of the Ritek-BR2-00, and all have burned and verified successfully! :)
Now only time will tell the longevity of these burns. :p I've had one Ritek fail during write... but, honestly I think I caused it by playing around on the computer while the disc was burning. I gave myself the blame, anyway. :)

[Mediogre]

Here's a good price on high quality Verbatim blanks. Shipping is very reasonable too. I bought 10 of them and it worked out to be $2.75 a disc. IMHO, if people have reliability issues with these, then the entire technology is dead.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=592757&is=REG

[Ghitulescu]

At the beginning the causes are different from what happens at the end of the product cycles.

At the beginning: - there are few manufacturers of both devices and media - both products are of high quality, but the problems arise mainly due to compatibility issues. The technology is expensive, early adopters are usually disappointed (now more than ever, as the Quality check is done nowadays by the consumers, it's even cheaper). If the burn is good, then it's really good.

Midlife: - more manufacturers, devices and media available. Sensible quality drop, also a sensible price drop, although good/premium quality products are still available. Problems mainly due to inadequate pairing device-media or hurry (high speed burning). Good burns are easily obtained if one avoids crap media and devices.

End of cycle (Scientology ;)) - the big names already cooked the next technology, only products manufactured on the ship heading to US/EU from Asia are available, everyone wants cheap and faster, quality completely sucks. EoS.

[jdobbs]

I just went back to some of my oldest discs just to verify (1.5 - 2 years old, I'd guess). No problems with playback -- and I've always used inexpensive discs (although back then "inexpensive" was a very relative term).

[K56]

Well, my first post was just a heads up. I doubt the disk failures will be widespread, but no harm in checking your burned media. I haven't experienced any problems personally, but I have only been burning BD disks for a short time, less than a year. I am still suspicious of the Ritek media I have, and will monitor them monthly with surface scans. I've purchased Verbatim as replacements...got them from Newegg for a very similar price to Mediogre's B & H link, and they had free shipping at that time, but the price has jumped back up at Newegg.

[setarip_old]

Much ado about nothing. Just more of the same - periodic, unsubstantiated, alarmist posting.

Again, properly storage and protection of your successfully burned discs is all that's necessary...

[jdobbs]

Let's get back on track. The topic of this thread is where/how to get inexpensive media. Debating the technology isn't its intent. So from here on in let's concentrate on helping each other by pointing out places we've found good prices on what we believe to be good media.

[Sophocles]

It would be nice if some of us could ID the discs that we purchase. I purchased a spindle of 15 Memorex from Newegg for $29.99+ $1.99 shipping. I checked their ID and discovered that they were made by Ritek. Newegg now has some Ridata/Ritek for the same price so $2.00 each seems to be the current sweet spot with an occasional loss leader find dipping below that, and Ritek seems to be the low side supplier. It would however be nice to know the ID of other makes as well so if we could all ID them we could get a feel for where they're made and not who's rebadging them now. Sorry if I missed that somewhere in this post.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817132069

[K56]

The Verbatim disks have gone on sale again at Newegg, and there is a code for an additional 10% off. Unfortunately I didn't find this until very late, and there are only a few hours left for the code. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817130047
That would work out to $2.70 apiece, so nowhere near the price of the Ritek disks listed by Sophocles.

@Sophocles
I'm not sure how well links to outside sites are received here, but there is a Blu ray media thread at MyCE which identifies blank media by mid codes, country of origin and shows the outside packaging. If you'd like to know the manufacturer of a particular brand, you can look through that thread. http://club.myce.com/f142/blu-ray-media-thread-274174/

[Ghitulescu]

There's an interesting list on Verbatim's page that comprises some BDR-burners and their compatibility with the new LTH disks it manufactures.

On the reverse page of this 2-pages document there's a second list with standalones' compatibility.
Notable incompatibles are: Samsung P1600, Sharp HP1, Pioneer LX70, LG BD370 and Sylvania NB500SL9.

So, it might also be important to list the type of the tested disc (the cheaper are almost surely LTH), the burner and the tester.

[Sophocles]

Here's a link that provides a little more information on Verbatim's LTH media.

http://www.cdrlabs.com/News/verbatimmkm-announces-industrys-first-6x-bd-r-lth-type-media.html

The question I would have is who is the actual manufacturer of various BD-R media. I know that Mitsubishi made their well received dual layer media. This is often the best way to find a specific media that often cost more or less depending on how it's rebadged.

[Ghitulescu]

Premium media will ALWAYS cost premium money - you don't pay here only for technology but also for the Quality Control. "Budget Verbatims" are disks produced on the same line, that were not inspected, so you, as the final customer, will find whether the disks works wondeful (and yes it's the bargain) or the unique recording you just moved is gone forever to Nirvana/Hades/Hell. In the last case you'd have payed 1€ per DVDR, but the chance has simply gone.

[jdobbs]

I've been around this industry a long time and just the opposite is much more commonly true. The discount manufacturers build for both themselves and the "high end" brands -- and the extra money you pay is for the label.

But let's get back OT (again).

[JJB]

On Topic:

Fry's has a Maxell (ritek) spindle of 15 for $24.99 till Wednesday this week. Limit 1

[rizzo7883]

here are some links to BD-R that I have bought and used without any Frisbee. Good cheap BD-R media. about $2 each.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817607025

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817132069

http://www.runtechmedia.com/product.asp?sku=OQBDR04LT25&a=11


I have personally bought all these and had NO problems.

[Ghitulescu]

here are some links to BD-R that I have bought and used without any Frisbee. Good cheap BD-R media. about $2 each.

In Germany GEMA asks 3.74€ per BDR (some 5-6$). GEMA collects the studios rights from every kind of copy machines and media. I think it's the equivalent of MPAA. So it's hard to believe that the prices will go down more than 5€ apiece. Maybe now it's the time to separate the state from the media as we did before with the state and the church.

[datman]

Well, by all means report back your results. I suspect that if a player plays recordable DVD-5 and -9 (with AZO ink layer) that it will play the LTH, but... if it doesn't then you've got 19 discs left for data backups huh! :)

Laserfan I finally got a player LG BD390 and it will not play thes discs:stupid:

I'm looking for disc that will play in this player.

Funny it will play any BD5 disc

[laserfan]

Hmmm well that sux doesn't it; sorry to hear it. I wonder (if you used ImgBurn to burn) did it have anything to say in its log about these discs? Did it burn/verify without error? How many did you try?

I burned my very first BD-R yesterday (Ritek-BR2-00 Hub-inkject printable) and it went perfect. So far so good w/these cheap ($2.25) discs from Meritline.

[datman]

They burned perfect using imgburn, no errors. I got 3 and they play fine from computer. How is it that BD players are so finicky and drives are so forgiving. I will make use of them. When I set up a new computer or reinstall OS I make an image hard disc, these will be perfect for that.

[DK]

There's an interesting list on Verbatim's page that comprises some BDR-burners and their compatibility with the new LTH disks it manufactures.

On the reverse page of this 2-pages document there's a second list with standalones' compatibility.
Notable incompatibles are: Samsung P1600, Sharp HP1, Pioneer LX70, LG BD370 and Sylvania NB500SL9.

So, it might also be important to list the type of the tested disc (the cheaper are almost surely LTH), the burner and the tester.

I have successfully used 2x LTH Verbatim on a Samsung 1600.

c.f. here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1397529#post1397529)

[jdobbs]

I just received a couple of cake boxes of Ridata Hub Printable 4x BD-Rs from Meritline... under $2.00 each and the four I've used so far have worked great. The prices keep dropping, and I'm loving it.

Note: Interestingly the price just went up by 12 cents a disc -- so they could now offer free shipping.

[laserfan]

I had bought a 25-pack from Meritline for $55.99+shipping, the BDR-254-RDIWN-CB25 print-to-hub and no coasters yet, maybe 5 used thus far. I also could not resist a 50-pack of Memorex DVD+R DL for $35.99, and they a working as well. Dunno if the Ritek factories have figured it out, but this is good news for another reason: driving prices down. My last visit to Sam's showed their 50-pack of Verbatim DVD+R DL going for $40 where a month ago they were $60. :)

[DK]

For DVD-DL I use Verbatim only. They are still ~ €22 here for 25pcs but their quality was simply the best I tried.

The Verbatim BD-R LTH were €18 for 10pcs.

[mobie29]

I would not use the Verbatim BD-r LTH if i were you. In my testing, they have been very unreliable in playback for different standalone blu ray players. I have also experienced many inconsistent burn errors. Stay away!! They are cheap for a reason.

Verbatim BD-R 4x and 6x are more stable and reliable.

[no.1_dark_knight]

I've been getting mine from RunTechMedia, the Optical Quantum brand. 50$ for 25 disc and Free shipping in the US. So far no problems, they burn at 8x on my LGWH08LS20.
Disc ID: PHILIP-R04-00. Just thought I would share :)

[Warbucks81]

I've been getting mine from RunTechMedia, the Optical Quantum brand. 50$ for 25 disc and Free shipping in the US. So far no problems, they burn at 8x on my LGWH08LS20.
Disc ID: PHILIP-R04-00. Just thought I would share :)

I've been using the same discs on the same burner. Excellent price and quality.

[DK]

I would not use the Verbatim BD-r LTH if i were you. In my testing, they have been very unreliable in playback for different standalone blu ray players. I have also experienced many inconsistent burn errors. Stay away!! They are cheap for a reason.

Verbatim BD-R 4x and 6x are more stable and reliable.

Cant say so from my experience so far.

Burnt with decent speed (2x) I havent had any problems with either bunring or playback. They play just fine.

Of course it may always be a matter of burner firmware or player but in my case I must say: good media with great value for money.

[wensteph]

Do some research if you want to try the LTH disks. Be sure to check the compatible burners listed on the Verbatim website. I thought my LG WH10LS30K would support it, but not without a firmware update that LG hasn't or won't do. Disks played on the computer they were burned on, but not on two Samsung players and an Oppo player. Non LTH disks played fine.

[DK]

Which Samsung players were it in your case because on my 1600 the LTH work flawlessly.

[wensteph]

Which Samsung players were it in your case because on my 1600 the LTH work flawlessly.

Don't know offhand because one belonged to a friend, the other to a relative. Both are 2009/2010 purchases. I posted a query about my coasters on the BD-RB bug thread; my playability problem was fixed with a change of media because my burner didn't support LTH. My point is to pay attention that the hardware on both ends is compatible with LTH.

[JJB]

If anyone is interested, Sams wholesale clubs now carry Verbatim DVD+R DL 50 pack cakebox made in Singapore disc for $29.99 which is .60 per disc.

[jdobbs]

If anyone is interested, Sams wholesale clubs now carry Verbatim DVD+R DL 50 pack cakebox made in Singapore disc for $29.99 which is .60 per disc.Excellent! That's good to know. I like Verbatim.

[laserfan]

FYI at my Sam's Club they'd reduced the price first from $59.99 to $39.99, then to $29.99, and now they are completely gone in favor of Memorex brand. It appears they no longer carry Verbs.

I suggest to anyone who finds the Verbatims at this price that they buy 'em right away! Before they're gone!

[JJB]

Oh Jeez...I suspected something but not this. I will go to my 2 closest Sams tomorrow and try to load up. Memorex, not now...!!

Thanks laserfan!

[hoju3508]

Fry's has Verbatim BD-R 20-pack for $23.

[A.Fenderson]

Fry's has Verbatim BD-R 20-pack for $23.

They are Verbatim LTH (http://www.frys.com/product/6207880?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG)--just FYI. I ordered this exact product elsewhere recently, but haven't yet tried burning any of them. My Sony BDP-S350 should work with them though.

[hoju3508]

Just realized about that today when I bought one. Lucky for me, my BDP-S350 and LG burner "should" work according to the compatibility document.

http://www.verbatim.com/userfiles/file/BDR_LTHCompatibility.pdf

[A.Fenderson]

That compatibility .pdf hasn't been updated (that I've noticed) since it first appeared. I can confirm my BDP-S350 and PS3 both work with these just fine with these LTH, but my Lite-On iHOS104-08 internal BD-ROM drive will not read them at all (it's not on the chart, but I had to try).

Does anyone know of any additional players/burners/readers that are LTH compatible (either new or via firmware update) but that haven't yet appeared on Verbatim's chart?

[DK]

Like i said: Samsung 1600 plays the LTH fine (chart said "not compatible"

[Ghitulescu]

Does anyone know of any additional players/burners/readers that are LTH compatible (either new or via firmware update) but that haven't yet appeared on Verbatim's chart?

It helps only a look on mfg's webpage, or screening out the FW's history. There were also some databases with drives and their features, not sure whether accurate and/or actual.

[TheGlumph]

Fry's has Verbatim BD-R 20-pack for $23.

Was this a sale price or are they always this price?

[jdobbs]

Just wanted to post that I just bought some of these discs (http://www.meritline.com/blu-ray-bd-r-4x-25gb-white-inkjet-hub-printable-media---p-48708.aspx) from MERITLINE. I'm on my third disc and they seem to work well... which is incredible considering that I got 50 BD-Rs for 59.99 ($1.20 ea). That makes DVD-9 backups kinda' OBE.

[laserfan]

Just wanted to post that I just bought some of these discs (http://www.meritline.com/blu-ray-bd-r-4x-25gb-white-inkjet-hub-printable-media---p-48708.aspx) from MERITLINE. I'm on my third disc and they seem to work well...A great deal, if they're good discs. Like (I believe) you, I've been using these Riteks (http://www.meritline.com/ritek-ridata-blu-ray-bd-r-4x-25gb-white-inkjet-hub-printable-254-rdiwn-cb25---p-38017.aspx) which are still almost 2x the cost.

Could you be so kind as to post the part of an ImgBurn log that shows the disc type? Curious as to the mfr.

[jdobbs]

I assume this is what you mean:Disc Information:
Status: Empty
State of Last Session: Empty
Erasable: No
Free Sectors: 12,219,392
Free Space: 25,025,314,816 bytes
Free Time: 2715:27:17 (MM:SS:FF)
Next Writable Address: 0
Supported Write Speeds: 2x, 4x

BD Disc Information:
Disc ID: OTCBDR-001-00
Disc Type: BD-R
Disc Size: 120mm
Disc Class: 0
Disc Version: 1
Number of Layers: 1
Layer Type: Writable
DVD Layer Present: No
CD Layer Present: No
Channel Bit Length: 74.5nm (25GB Per Layer)
Push-Pull Polarity: Positive
Recorded Mark Polarity: HTL
BCA Present: Yes
Maximum Transfer Rate: Not Specified
Last User Data PSN for Disc: 0
First PAA of Data Zone: 131,072
Last PAA of Data Zone: 1,658,494

[laserfan]

Thanks jdobbs; the mfr doesn't appear to be any of the usual suspects. One thing I miss btw from an actual burn log is the writer you use (for compatibility). Which? Mine's a LG GGW-H20L which has burned everything to-date.

Well I'm damned if I can find anything about manufacturer "OTC" or Merax, so let us know if your happiness with this cake goes south... ;)

[Mediogre]

Verbatim 4x BD-R's on sale at B&H Photo. $17.50 for a 10 pack.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=592757&is=REG

[Capsbackup]

A great deal, if they're good discs. Like (I believe) you, I've been using these Riteks (http://www.meritline.com/ritek-ridata-blu-ray-bd-r-4x-25gb-white-inkjet-hub-printable-254-rdiwn-cb25---p-38017.aspx) which are still almost 2x the cost.

Could you be so kind as to post the part of an ImgBurn log that shows the disc type? Curious as to the mfr.

I have been using Memorex branded 4x, 15per spindle purchased from Fry's for $19.99. They have the same IMGBurn Disc ID as those Ridata's cake box:
Ritek - BR2-00.
I go with whatever is on sale, and it seems like every other week they have one brand or the other. :)

[jdobbs]

Thanks jdobbs; the mfr doesn't appear to be any of the usual suspects. One thing I miss btw from an actual burn log is the writer you use (for compatibility). Which? Mine's a LG GGW-H20L which has burned everything to-date.

Well I'm damned if I can find anything about manufacturer "OTC" or Merax, so let us know if your happiness with this cake goes south... ;) It's Optodisc Technology Corporation (http://www.optodisc.com). I write with a Sony 200s burner. I bought it when Blu-ray writers were pretty new -- it cost $600 back then.

[jdobbs]

I have been using Memorex branded 4x, 15per spindle purchased from Fry's for $19.99. They have the same IMGBurn Disc ID as those Ridata's cake box:
Ritek - BR2-00.
I go with whatever is on sale, and it seems like every other week they have one brand or the other. :) I'm just glad these things are starting to get into the "reasonable" range. I think $1.20 a disc for a BD backup is perfectly fine.

[setarip_old]

@jdobbs

Hi!

I'm not trying to be an alarmist, but I'd suggest you keep a careful eye on your newly acquired blank media. Historically, while Optodisc manufactured high quality blank CDs, they failed miserably (under their own name and a multitude of others) with their DVD media - low price, poor quality (many initial failures), and burned DVDs that failed after a brief period of time "on the shelf"...

[Capsbackup]

I'm just glad these things are starting to get into the "reasonable" range. I think $1.20 a disc for a BD backup is perfectly fine.

I agree, these prices are as good as, unless on sale, DVD+R DL media.
I'm quite sure bug reports would be almost eliminated too, if more users went to BD-R media.
But I just can't get over the challenge of making full disc backups to BD5/9 media, and they look awesome! :p

[jdobbs]

@jdobbs

Hi!

I'm not trying to be an alarmist, but I'd suggest you keep a careful eye on your newly acquired blank media. Historically, while Optodisc manufactured high quality blank CDs, they failed miserably (under their own name and a multitude of others) with their DVD media - low price, poor quality (many initial failures), and burned DVDs that failed after a brief period of time "on the shelf"... Luckily, though, blu-rays are held to a stricter standard... and these are "official".

[jdobbs]

I agree, these prices are as good as, unless on sale, DVD+R DL media.
I'm quite sure bug reports would be almost eliminated too, if more users went to BD-R media.
But I just can't get over the challenge of making full disc backups to BD5/9 media, and they look awesome! :p That's true. But I can get high quality output to a BD-R in about a 1/4 the time... :)

[laserfan]

It's Optodisc Technology Corporation (http://www.optodisc.com). I write with a Sony 200s burner...Thanks for this--I sure couldn't find them.

I dunno what to make of what to me are recent advancements (giant leaps?) in disc quality. I have had zero problems w/the Ritek discs I've bought, so I too will give the Merax OTC a try when my Ritek printable BD blanks run out.

[techno1]

New offer from newegg.com - LG WH10LS30K 10X Blu-ray Burner, LightScribe Support - Bulk - OEM $99.99 w/ free shipping - Free 3D software, glasses and BD media, ends 10/31.
http://goo.gl/OTQx

[Ch3vr0n]

that the BH10

[Capsbackup]

that the BH10

No, CH10. Not a Blu-ray burner, only the reader!!
$179.99 for the BH10.

[Racem22]

Just an fyi, Newegg has Optical Quantum 10 packs for $9.99 each, you can get up to 5 in one order, I just ordered 5 and it came to $59.71 with shipping, so not too shabby. Also, they've got the LG WH10LS30 BD Burner for $109.99 and free shipping. Does anybody know what the difference is between the BH10, CH10, and WH10?

[techno1]

Just an fyi, Newegg has Optical Quantum 10 packs for $9.99 each, you can get up to 5 in one order, I just ordered 5 and it came to $59.71 with shipping, so not too shabby. Also, they've got the LG WH10LS30 BD Burner for $109.99 and free shipping. Does anybody know what the difference is between the BH10, CH10, and WH10?

I have the WH10LS30 OEM model. It's a commercial product without ANY support from LG. It includes a firmware update program that does absolutely nothing, but sit in the system tray. I haven't had any problems with this drive, but I did purchase the egg 1 year replacement service for 16.99. Heck, it will be worn out by then and need replacement anyway ;)

[Video Dude]

Anybody have experience with Kodak BD-R white inkjet printable? Are they HTL or LTH? I can't find any reviews online.

Most places have the 15 pack for $25 and the 25 pack for $40. It comes to $1.60 per disc.

[A.Fenderson]

Unless they're going for a customer service failure of epic proportions, they won't be LTH if it's not printed prominently on the package (and from the pics I found, it's not).

[geomtchr]

i havr tried several brands. I didn't have great success with Verbatim's LTH discs. I've had great success with Ridata's 25 Gb discs as well as Kodaks printable discs (HTL). The Ridata discs are seeling for about $27 on amazon. With amazon prime shipping, you're not going to get a better price.

[JSERLE]

Optical Quantum 25GB 4X BD-R 25 Packs Logo Top Blu-ray Disc
Model OQBDR04LT-25
Item #: N82E16817607025
Consumable Item Refund Only Return Policy
$39.99
$34.99
Subtotal $34.99
Tax $0.00
UPS 3 Days $1.99
Order Total $36.98

Copy of NewEgg invoice above does not include $5 mail in rebate. I have burned a couple BluRay movies of around 21G size with ImageBurn, which maxed out at 8x, (burn time under 15 minutes) using LG WH10LS30 10X burner. I cannot find DVD DL discs much cheaper than this. If you factor in the time of BD9 recoding, BD25 backup is going to be more cost & quality effective. Maybe JDobbs can work on an option to split a BD9 over 2 standard DVDs, which would be the cheapest option.

[lopies]

Been using WINDATA BD-R with my Plextor PX-B940SA firmware 1.08 writing at 10x. The Disc ID is PHILIP-R04-00 according to ImgBurn. All seems good so far. Tried the disc's on my LG BD390 and my brothers player as well. I didn't get that model number. You have to purchase these in store. $9.99 for 10 isn't to shabby.

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0341415

[Ghitulescu]

This is good news that a 4x rated BD-R sold by Windata (which generally sells only rejected BD-R media) could be written at 10x and still be readable.

[RB Newbie]

Newegg has Optical Quantum 25GB 4X BD-R 10 Packs Logo Top Blu-ray Disc Model OQBDR04LT-10 for $8.99 with free shipping.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817607024&Tpk=OQBDR04LT-10

I've never used them but the reviews are very good. At under a buck each, I ordered 2 packs.

[Chiamos]

Newegg has Optical Quantum 25GB 4X BD-R 10 Packs Logo Top Blu-ray Disc Model OQBDR04LT-10 for $8.99 with free shipping.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817607024&Tpk=OQBDR04LT-10

I've never used them but the reviews are very good. At under a buck each, I ordered 2 packs.

They do burn quite well at optimal speed with imgburn. :)
Hope the costs keep in this downward spiral.:)

[techno1]

I ordered 2 packs of 10 also. See what happens:thanks:

[bobrap]

Has anyone heard of or used Optical Quantum VL Blu-ray? I don't know what the VL means (value?). Supermedia store has them for $10 a 10 pk.

http://www.supermediastore.com/product/u/optical-quantum-bd-r-25gb-4x-white-inkjet-hub-printable-blu-ray-recordable-single-layer-media-oqvbdr04wip-h-10-10pk?filter=Type%3DBD-R+%28Recordable%29%7Cbrand%3DOPTICAL+QUANTUM&max=15&offset=0

[john920]

I have been making full bd25 disc backups using the ridata bd-r printable disc's using imageburn with no issues, unless its a movie with all those multiple broken up files, iron man 2, the watchmen, and so on. These play fine in a computer or PS3 but not in my LG nor my Insignia standalone players, without freezing at the file changes. I have been reluctant to spend the money on the verbatim discs for fear of the same problem at twice the price per disc. I like the printable disc's because I just need my art, I'm silly like that...

[jdobbs]

Has anyone heard of or used Optical Quantum VL Blu-ray? I don't know what the VL means (value?). Supermedia store has them for $10 a 10 pk.

http://www.supermediastore.com/product/u/optical-quantum-bd-r-25gb-4x-white-inkjet-hub-printable-blu-ray-recordable-single-layer-media-oqvbdr04wip-h-10-10pk?filter=Type%3DBD-R+%28Recordable%29%7Cbrand%3DOPTICAL+QUANTUM&max=15&offset=0 I got a 50 pack of Optical Quantums through Meritline -- not sure if they are "VL" or not. I've gone through about 25 or so -- no issues. The DisC ID says "PHILIP-R04-00"

[jdobbs]

I have been making full bd25 disc backups using the ridata bd-r printable disc's using imageburn with no issues, unless its a movie with all those multiple broken up files, iron man 2, the watchmen, and so on. These play fine in a computer or PS3 but not in my LG nor my Insignia standalone players, without freezing at the file changes. I have been reluctant to spend the money on the verbatim discs for fear of the same problem at twice the price per disc. I like the printable disc's because I just need my art, I'm silly like that... It just seems like a hellavu' coincidence that it would happen exactly at change points -- I'm not sure how media could cause that. It sounds more like the LG player isn't buffering. It's also possible, I guess, that the physical positioning of the files may cause seeking delays -- but I think that might be a stretch. Not impossible, though.

Have you tried a BD-RE? It's always good to have one around for testing, and if you get the freezing on that -- it means the discs probably aren't the issue.

[CpT]

i havr tried several brands. I didn't have great success with Verbatim's LTH discs.

I've had great luck with the LTH disks. I've used over 100 of them now with 0 coasters.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817130070

Using this burner:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136186

[john920]

both of my players do the same thing with the freezing, they play movies with large video files perfectly. Should I start a new thread and post a log to show you my settings? I use the standard quality not the highest mode to save time.....

[jdobbs]

both of my players do the same thing with the freezing, they play movies with large video files perfectly. Should I start a new thread and post a log to show you my settings? I use the standard quality not the highest mode to save time..... I just find it odd that is happens only on your SAPs. Is it happening with encodes done with v0.35.1? There was a fix in that version that might have theoretically caused a similar issue if you happened to have stopped and restarted BD-RB during the encodes (on some previous versions).

Also, are you using IMGBURN to write to the discs? You're not using NERO or some other package are you?

[john920]

I just did Iron Man 2 with 35.1 and I always use the latest imagburn. Now you have me wondering if my drive is messed up....

[john920]

I have started burning at 2x speed to see if that makes some kind of difference, nothing. I have an LG wh08ls20 internal drive. This happens on every stand alone player, I have tried it on Sony's and panasonic as well, same thing, freezing at branch points.

[Capsbackup]

Looks like you need to try a different burner then, to rule this out.
Do you create an image to hard drive with IMGBurn, then use this image to burn to disc? I do this, but probably it does not make a difference.
Do you have IMGBurn verify the burn? If so, does it verify successfully?
You state they play fine on a PS3, but not on a Sony standalone? Which standalone Sony's have you tried?
My S360 plays Iron Man 2 perfectly, and it was a BD-25 full movie backup.

[john920]

I have done the verify and they always pass. The sony player was a friends, so I don't know the model number.
Thats the other thing I am going to try, I have been building and burning at the same time. I am going to have imgburn build the image first and then in a separate process actually burn the disc and see if that helps. and I might as well have it verify the data too.....

[john920]

the bummer is its a $150 test to try another burner ugg......

[waynezo]

Considering these two, which is better?

Will they burn at 10x like a verbatim?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100006519%2050008354%2040000071%20600010543&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&SpeTabStoreType=1&CompareItemList=71|17-607-008^17-607-008-S01%2C17-607-024^17-607-024-TS

[john920]

Capsbackup Looks like you need to try a different burner then, to rule this out.
Do you create an image to hard drive with IMGBurn, then use this image to burn to disc? I do this, but probably it does not make a difference.
Do you have IMGBurn verify the burn? If so, does it verify successfully?
You state they play fine on a PS3, but not on a Sony standalone? Which standalone Sony's have you tried?
My S360 plays Iron Man 2 perfectly, and it was a BD-25 full movie backup.
tried that with no success, still stutters or freezes at the branching points. sooooo I'm looking at two other burners to try.... any opinions?

Pioneer BDR-205 - OEM
and the
Lite-on iHBS112 - OEM

[waynezo]

Capsbackup
tried that with no success, still stutters or freezes at the branching points. sooooo I'm looking at two other burners to try.... any opinions?

Pioneer BDR-205 - OEM
and the
Lite-on iHBS112 - OEM

I have the Pioneer BDR-205. Works great no riplock and it burns Verbatim BD-R at up to 10x

[Capsbackup]

john920;
Have you tried a full disc backup to DVD+R DL of one of these discs that are being troublesome, and if so, do you experience the same problem?
Do you have the latest firmware for your burner?

[john920]

firmware is the latest, there has not been a change since sept of 2009

I have not tried a dvd 9..... i will have to try that tonight.... I have a pioneer bdr 205 coming on wednesday so who knows....

[john920]

Still working on the dvd9, my players keep spitting them out so I must be doing something wrong.... Just got the pioneer 205 today, burned the bd25 image of iron man 2 onto both my ridata and optodisc blu rays, the freezes are now short pauses..... but it gets through them. I donkt know.... do I really need the verbatims? ugg

[Capsbackup]

I use Memorex, which are Ridata, disc ID: Ritek-BR2-00, never had a failed disc or any problem at all with them! I have never used Verbatim BD-R.
It sure appears there is something wrong on your end, and it is not the burner. :confused:
Have you any other codec packs installed, like K-lite, etc...? Perhaps other video encode software, Corel, Nero,etc..

[john920]

This machine is exclusively for bdrebuilder, no nero or anything else. I am trying the 25 rebuild again on high quality..... I'm going nuts wasting discs here... oh well what are you gonna do....

and my ridata-br2-00 are the same disc's that I have....

[Ghitulescu]

From what I have read in the internet and various German magazines (like the well respected c't), I don't own a Pioneer (yet, it's still way too expensive as it's not sold in EU and must be reimported), it appears that the Pioneer 205 can burn better the expensive disks, while the saleshit LG10 burns better the cheaper ones. Especially when people are in a big hurry and use 10x or 12x. I used my LG 10 only on RE25, no problems both on standalone and the drives, average bitrate around 30 (live concerts), as my player displayed them.

[john920]

the only titles that don't play properly are the ones with multi-file branching, thats why I'm going crazy

[jdobbs]

I know I mentioned this before... what just recheck the version of BD Rebuilder are you using. Make sure it is v0.35.1...

[john920]

I always update, it is 35.01. something funny must be happening during the rebuild.... i don't know.....

[jdobbs]

I always update, it is 35.01. something funny must be happening during the rebuild.... i don't know..... That's really not likely... the exact same code is working fine on a few thousand other computers/players.

[john920]

That's really not likely... the exact same code is working fine on a few thousand other computers/players.

I know the problem has to be in my system.. I just cant figure out where....
I feel I have taken over this thread with my silly problems, I will be trying a few more things and starting a new thread if I cant get this going....
ugg....

[CpT]

Newegg is running a 72 hour promotion atm.

Verbatim 25GB 2X BD-R LTH @ 24.99 - usually 26.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817130070

And all their hard drives are 10% off for 48 hours.
Promo code = EMCZYNZ73 - apply it in cart.

http://promotions.newegg.com/NEemail/oct-0-2010/72hoursaler2/index-landing.html?nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL102110&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL102110-_-EMC-102110-Index-_-E0-_-PromoWord

[waynezo]

I got a 50 pack of Optical Quantums through Meritline -- not sure if they are "VL" or not. I've gone through about 25 or so -- no issues. The DisC ID says "PHILIP-R04-00"

Optical Quantums work great for me. I find them on sale either at newegg or meritline.

[BlackWolf]

Optical Quantum 25GB 4X BD-R 25 Packs Logo Top Blu-ray Disc Model OQBDR04LT-25 are at Newegg now for $22.50 USD w free delivery. They have been as low as $20.00 USD for a 25 pack. The Disc ID says "PHILIP-R04-00", or at least that what the ones I previously purchased have as a Disc ID. I have used over 50 of these with no issues. I have seen them sell under the name Vinpower with the same media ID, "PHILIP-R04-00". at Meritline for $8 USD for a 10 pack with a coupon code, no issues with these either.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817607025

[jdobbs]

Optical Quantum 25GB 4X BD-R 25 Packs Logo Top Blu-ray Disc Model OQBDR04LT-25 are at Newegg now for $22.50 USD w free delivery. They have been as low as $20.00 USD for a 25 pack. The Disc ID says "PHILIP-R04-00", or at least that what the ones I previously purchased have as a Disc ID. I have used over 50 of these with no issues. I have seen them sell under the name Vinpower with the same media ID, "PHILIP-R04-00". at Meritline for $8 USD for a 10 pack with a coupon code, no issues with these either.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817607025 I've had no issues whatsoever with the Optical Quantum discs (PHILIP-R04-00), and I've used over 50.

[Warbucks81]

I've had no issues whatsoever with the Optical Quantum discs (PHILIP-R04-00), and I've used over 50.

Same here. I've burned over 150 without any issues. They're quality media. Also, their DVD+R DL discs have a MID of RICOHJP. More good stuff.

[k-c-ksum]

tried some verbatim 25gb disc from japan, no dudz yet, the print surface is also excellent, best blacks ive seen on printable media

[djmasturbeat]

since i have used Verbies so long, especially after so many DVDR DL fails for anything but Verbies, i stuck with them for BDR too.
served me well until recently. i am about to return the spindles i got, both open and still sealed, since i am suddenly burning more junk than not.

at first i thought even my baby changed a seting on ImgBurn and i couldn't figure out what... unfortunately not :(

ALL I ever used were LTH, so my drive can handle them... i just think i got a bad batch or they are making them really crappy now.
see my thread here (and i had more bad burns repeatedly since this thread):
http://forum.imgburn.com/index.php?showtopic=16745&st=0&p=126653&fromsearch=1&#entry126653

so much for Verbatim being the king of media. I am about to buy Ridata and others over Verbatim now. how sad.

btw, all of these were direct backups of BDs that were BD25 to start, and sometimes they took 3 or 4 burns, but would finally burn. I know it isn't that they weren't decrypted correctly or anything like that. It was purely these new LTH discs . they have the same code as earler ones i used, so i have no idea what is different other than i am unlucky with a bad batch or Verbatim is cutting corners.

does anyone know anything about how to tell where the LTH discs come from? (the rumour i heard was that these are made at DVD facilities using a more DVD -like process, hence the cheaper end-user cost).

[jdobbs]

With standard BD-25 discs under a dollar at some places (like Newegg) -- I can't understand why people are messing around with LTH?

[djmasturbeat]

curious what cheap media is working well for people with an HL (LG) WH10LS30 or similar models.
has anyone using this series of drives used the Optical Quantum discs that are a buck each at NewEgg?
I see people saying they had luck with them, but really drives (and the firm available) are half the issue of compatibility for burning, at least in my experience.

after this last run i won't be using the LTH. It's about the only (affordable) thing available locally, and i was still paying $2+/ea; and mail order is an issue for me (thieves in my post office, no joke, it's the hood tho, so no one cares), but i may just order from NewEgg & send to a friend's or my parent's

[Ghitulescu]

curious what cheap media is working well for people with an HL (LG) WH10LS30 or similar models.

If you have had time to read all the posts I said that the LG burners are designed to work with cheap and/or lower quality media, while expensive drives, like the Plextors/Pioneers would work better with quality media. That explains the boom they had in optical drives.

[djmasturbeat]

thank you. i will go and read through all the posts since i admit i skipped several pages.

EDIT: well I did read them, but looking at some reviews it seems some LG owners are having issues with Vinpower Discs, more or less the same as Optical Quantum, i believe, tho i see more issues posted for the Vinpower specifically, but often it is the same drive as i have or the series before, the supermultis that had HDDVDROM too, the *H20 series).
I may still order a pack of 10, since they are 11 plus shipping, and i can afford that .. tho hopefully not throw it all away :P

[Ghitulescu]

thanks you. i will go and read through all the posts since i admit i skipped several pages.

There's no longer needed now :)

[djmasturbeat]

if anyone wants to take a plunge, this is the cheapest BD50s i have ever seen:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B004DNEZUG/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&qid=1294475010&sr=1-18&condition=new
DIGISTOR 50GB BD-R Media, 6X (25 pack)
by Digistor
$115+7.25 s/h
never heard of this company though, so who knows?
EDIT:sole review for some BD25s -- :ahem: no longer available :/
http://www.amazon.com/Blu-ray-Inkjet-Printable-Surface-25-Pack/product-reviews/B0034XNLOW/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
still that is far below all the other BD50s i have seen around of any make. i don't have the cash one way or the other to try them out, even if they were very reputable brands.


also i see some other no name in BD25 printable, 50 for $55:
Melody 50 pcs BD-R Blu-ray Recordable White Inkjet Printable Blank Disc, 25GB, 1-4x
http://www.amazon.com/Melody-Blu-ray-Recordable-Inkjet-Printable/dp/B004DTVJG8/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_1

[werd84]

i have both GGW-H20L and the WH10LS30 burners and have had no bad burns with either using the Optical Quantum branded disc's, and i've went through about 6 of the 25pack splines. but i do have to admit that i've only used the WH10LS30 to burn a few discs, just got it for christmas :D .

[k-c-ksum]

verbs from japan both 25 and 50gb, far cheaper than euro/US

[A.Fenderson]

verbs from japan both 25 and 50gb, far cheaper than euro/US

Can you recommend any good sellers of those who ship outside of Japan?

[k-c-ksum]

Can you recommend any good sellers of those who ship outside of Japan?

ebay, seller j-stop. 10 25gb verbs for $26

[A.Fenderson]

ebay, seller j-stop. 10 25gb verbs for $26

Looks like those are the 4x, so you can get the same 4x Verbatims at B&H for $19.49 plus shipping (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/592757-REG/Verbatim_96769_BD_R_Blu_ray_Recordable_Disc.html), which to my location is less than $3.50 currently, and sometimes shipping is free. They've also got the 6x Verbatims for $29.95 for 10 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/723315-REG/Verbatim_97238_BD_R_Blu_Ray_25GB_6x.html), with free shipping currently, or a 25 spindle of the same 6x Verbs for $60.24 w/ free shipping (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/741448-REG/Verbatim_97457_BD_R_Blu_Ray_25GB_6x.html) ($2.41/ea). I've had nothing but great experiences in buying different things from B&H.

[djmasturbeat]

i was about to post that too:
the complete list of BDs at B&H (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?ci=13279&N=4289301619+4264330173+4294951273+4294952249+4294952244+4294952247+4294952250+4294952243&Ns=p_PRICE_2|0)

best deal i have seen on the Verb (non-LTH) discs. they are sold out of the biggest packs of most of the 25 & 50GB verbies, but i don't have that much money anyhow. i still have yet to buy any 50 GB discs to date :P i could often just buy a second retail of some things for near-same price.

[Darth_Emma]

Both Newegg and Amazon have 10 packs of the cake boxes of Verbatim 4x BD-R for 18.99 today with free shipping at Newegg.

[djmasturbeat]

i just saw a new egg ad for that.
i am ordering a pack, since that is about all the cash i can spare for a good while

[Gregintosh]

I bought the WinData discs at MicroCenter ($9.99 for 10 pack), and they were terrible, at least with my burner. I burned 6 successful discs and got about 8 coasters. I will use my remaining discs and never buy them again. I had to also burn at 2x for them to play properly as burning at 4x (which they were rated for) resulting in skipping.

On the other hand, I went on eBay and bought Gigablock discs. $38 for a 30 pack. So far no coasters after burning 11 discs in a row. What made me buy these was that my burners model was listed on the eBay page for compatiblity, I guess they weren't kidding. They also all play well.

[Ch3vr0n]

Get verbatim. Never heard of windata nor gigablock. They're crappy brands.

[quartex]

any quality difference between Verbatim BD-R 25 printable
http://www.cdrohlinge24.de/verbatimbluraybdr25gb4x10pcsincakebox-p-27162.html

and non printable?
http://www.cdrohlinge24.de/verbatimbluraybdr25gbfullprintable4x25pcsincakebox-p-37297.html

The printable cost is lower that non printable...

[Gregintosh]

Get verbatim. Never heard of windata nor gigablock. They're crappy brands.

They are less known but that doesn't necessarily mean they are crappy. From my experience, WinData definitely seems to be crappy, but Gigablock seems to be working great.

It would be a fallacy to assume that just because a brand is more famous it is automatically higher quality or better than one that is not.

And make no mistake, this is a fallacy that big companies count on people believing which is why "brand name" products go for more money despite being often made in the same factories on the same assembly lines (read: exactly the same quality) as lesser known brands.

I would rather try the products for myself and judge, which is what I did and so far I concluded that Gigablock looks like a winner to me at a price much lower than Verbatim while delivering premium quality.

Granted my test was not scientific but I had no coasters or problems playing these discs in my recent Samsung Blu-Ray player and my Sylvania Blu-Ray player from several years ago. This leads me to believe that these discs are just as good as anything else out there.

Since this post is all about getting the cheapest BD-R media, I could recommend Gigablock based on my experience for "best and cheapest" blank BD-Rs (especially if your burner is listed on the compatibility list).

At the price they go for on ebay, $38 for a 30 pack ($1.26 a disc) they are a much better deal than Verbatims which in the post above go for around $2 a disc (60% more money).

I am not super rich, so for my money I would rather have 100 blank BD-Rs from Gigablock for my backups now that I have tested them and found them to be of premium quality than 62 blank BD-Rs from Verbatim.

[jdobbs]

I've personally had very good experiences with Merax, Optical Quantum, and Ridata discs -- all of which sell in the $1 a disc range.

[Capsbackup]

I have tried RiData 4x BD-R and Memorex 4x BD-R ( which has the same mfg ID as the RiData, just Blue in color), with no problems.

Found RiData for $35.00 for a 15 pack spindle, and Memorex for $40.00 for a 15 pack spindle. Now that I know Memorex is the same mfg., I probably won't pay more for the color.

It's funny, I will never buy anything but Verbatims for my DVD media, but was willing to try these for BD-R. Verbatim 10 pack spindle goes for $50.00. ( Fry's ). Next purchase I will try Verbatims, but I am uncertain if this will be necessary for BD media. I will be curious of others opinions.

A very good thread to start. images/smilies/goodpost-t.gif

__________________

@NhocCuteGirls;
Your second post, and you didn't even try to use your own words! :rolleyes:
This one from me was the second from this thread.

I have tried RiData 4x BD-R and Memorex 4x BD-R ( which has the same mfg ID as the RiData, just Blue in color), with no problems.
Found RiData for $35.00 for a 15 pack spindle, and Memorex for $40.00 for a 15 pack spindle. Now that I know Memorex is the same mfg., I probably won't pay more for the color.
It's funny, I will never buy anything but Verbatims for my DVD media, but was willing to try these for BD-R. Verbatim 10 pack spindle goes for $50.00. ( Fry's ). Next purchase I will try Verbatims, but I am uncertain if this will be necessary for BD media. I will be curious of others opinions.
A very good thread to start. :goodpost:

[jdobbs]

@NhocCuteGirls;
Your second post, and you didn't even try to use your own words! :rolleyes:
This one from me was the second from this thread. It's gotta be a SPAMBOT, or a BOT of some kind (I don't see the SPAM only the weirdness). NhocCuteGirls has only posted only two times, and both of them used text copied from an earlier post.

@NhocCuteGirls

If you're a real person, respond quickly -- or you'll be banned in the very near future...

[Darth_Emma]

The egg has all VERBATIM media for 20% off this weekend with coupon code: EMCYTZT271

I got 2 BD-R 10 packs for $15.99 each with free shipping today.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817130047

They are $19.99 less 20% with the coupon code making them $15.99 each with free shipping.

[JJB]

The egg has all VERBATIM media for 20% off this weekend with coupon code: EMCYTZT271

I got 2 BD-R 10 packs for $15.99 each with free shipping today.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817130047

They are $19.99 less 20% with the coupon code making them $15.99 each with free shipping.

Be careful on ordering the LTH (Low to High) BD. Some burners reject them like bad milk.:sly:

[DVDIT]

Be careful on ordering the LTH (Low to High) BD. Some burners reject them like bad milk.:sly:

The Verbatim 25GB 4X BD-R 10 Packs Spindle Box Disc Model 96769 are not LTH. That is awesome price for those discs.

[Ghitulescu]

According to several threads at the imgburn forum, the Verbatims are not really the top, at least not when burned with certain "less expensive" burners (check the results for them in the topic of the burner you have - the topics are ordered according to the burner, not according to the media).

[DVDIT]

According to several threads at the imgburn forum, the Verbatims are not really the top, at least not when burned with certain "less expensive" burners (check the results for them in the topic of the burner you have - the topics are ordered according to the burner, not according to the media).

Thanks, I will check it out. I have a Pioneer 205 and burn with 4x speed only using Imgburn. I own several blu-ray players and each backup plays back on all players without a hitch.

[GaPony]

FWIW...

In all honesty, I haven't had the first bit of trouble from ANY brand of BD-R media. No coasters, except for a couple user aborted burns, and no problems with playback on LG, Samsung, or Sony machines.

I always just look for the cheapest, unbranded, thermal printable, discs I can find and have never been disappointed.

[jdobbs]

I got worried a couple of days ago... I put in 5 different BD-Rs and got "check" error when I tried to burn. I thought I'd finally run into some bad discs -- but then it did the same thing on two other brands.

It turns out that my Sony BWU-S200 drive finally met its demise after several years of continual (daily) use. I went to Best Buy and picked up an LG BH10LS30 drive the next day, used MCSE to disable the BDMV read speed limit, and now I'm ripping nearly twice as fast as I was with my Sony. I guess there's always a silver lining, eh? It turns out I can even even use the discs that had "failed".

Amazing how prices have changed. The Sony was $600 when I bought it. Now faster drives with more features are around $100.

FWIW...

In all honesty, I haven't had the first bit of trouble from ANY brand of BD-R media. No coasters, except for a couple user aborted burns, and no problems with playback on LG, Samsung, or Sony machines.

I always just look for the cheapest, unbranded, thermal printable, discs I can find and have never been disappointed.
Same for me. I buy whatever disc is cheapest, burn it at maximum speed, and I think I can only remember 1-2 bad discs out of all the packs I've bought (and I've bought a lot of them).

[laserfan]

...the next day, used MSCE to disable the BDMV read speed limit, and now I'm ripping nearly twice as fast...
You meant MCSE (MediaCodeSpeedEdit) and thanks for reminding me about it--I'd been put-off in the past by the 'write strategy' aspect and have never tried its riplock removal feature. Will have to do so!
:thanks:

[jdobbs]

You meant MCSE (MediaCodeSpeedEdit) and thanks for reminding me about it--I'd been put-off in the past by the 'write strategy' aspect and have never tried its riplock removal feature. Will have to do so!
:thanks: Yep...

[laserfan]

Nice...about a 30% improvement in read speed on my LG drive. That is significant indeed--thanks again.

[RB Newbie]

Newegg has 25 packs of Optical Quantum 4X "Logo Top" on sale for $19.99 with free shipping.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817607025

They burn at 8x on my LG 10x drive.

[techno1]

Newegg has 25 packs of Optical Quantum 4X "Logo Top" on sale for $19.99 with free shipping.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817607025

They burn at 8x on my LG 10x drive.
I tried the Optical Quantum disks from 'the egg' on my LG drives and have several that failed using ImgBurn at 2x. Not a single bad RiDATA disk yet. My LG's must like RiDATA.

[jdobbs]

I tried the Optical Quantum disks from 'the egg' on my LG drives and have several that failed using ImgBurn at 2x. Not a single bad RiDATA disk yet. My LG's must like RiDATA. I went through 50 of the Optical Quantum White Inkjet Printable discs (OQ/BD-R/04/IPW) from Meritline -- and never had a single bad one. That was on my old Sony drive, though.

[Wolfe999]

I tried the Optical Quantum disks from 'the egg' on my LG drives and have several that failed using ImgBurn at 2x. Not a single bad RiDATA disk yet. My LG's must like RiDATA.

My drive is an LG GGW-H20L and so far have had no problem with Ritek (Traxdata) nor Optical Quantum from Newegg. Though curiously I've had many coasters at the beginning (when they were quite expensive I bought 10) with verbs. I stopped buying them. Had no problem either with TDK's.

[GaPony]

I went to Best Buy and picked up an LG BH10LS30 drive the next day, used MCSE to disable the BDMV read speed limit, and now I'm ripping nearly twice as fast as I was with my Sony.

Excellant tip, jdobbs! I installed modified firmware onto my WH10LS30 drive and tested it on 16 Blocks, which was handy at the time. The rip time went from 23 minutes to 14 minutes. This is a pretty small Blu-Ray (14GB), but the speedup is fantastic. I did the same thing with my old LG GGW-H20L and it went from 40 minutes to 24 minutes.

I had forgotten all about MCSE...

Thanks again!

[DVDIT]

Excellant tip, jdobbs! I installed modified firmware onto my WH10LS30 drive and tested it on 16 Blocks, which was handy at the time. The rip time went from 23 minutes to 14 minutes. This is a pretty small Blu-Ray (14GB), but the speedup is fantastic. I did the same thing with my old LG GGW-H20L and it went from 40 minutes to 24 minutes.

I had forgotten all about MCSE...

Thanks again!

Where can I download a modified firmware for LITEON iHOS104 for use with MCSE to speed up rip time?

[jdobbs]

Where can I download a modified firmware for LITEON iHOS104 for use with MCSE to speed up rip time?Are you sure you need modified firmware. I just downloaded the latest for my drive and then ran MCSE against it. It does the patch. I think MCSE tells you which firmware versions it supports.

[DVDIT]

Are you sure you need modified firmware. I just downloaded the latest for my drive and then ran MCSE against it. It does the patch. I think MCSE tells you which firmware versions it supports.

I thought I needed a modified one. But still I was unable to find the latest firmware for my Lite-on even on the manufacturer website. Google didn't help either.

[jdobbs]

I thought I needed a modified one. But still I was unable to find the latest firmware for my Lite-on even on the manufacturer website. Google didn't help either.Did you try this:

http://us.liteonit.com/us/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=274&Itemid=191

I haven't tried to download it, but this is where its supposed to be.

You may also want to do a search for MediaCodeSpeedEdit along with that drive to see is it and the firmware is supported.

[DVDIT]

Did you try this:

http://us.liteonit.com/us/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=274&Itemid=191

I haven't tried to download it, but this is where its supposed to be.

I did. It shows no file to download. When I click on download anyway it keeps denying me access. It keeps saying permission denied. Funny thing is there is instruction on how to upgrade the firmware but the firmware itself is MIA.

[djmasturbeat]

From my experience, WinData definitely seems to be crappy,


since i live by a MicroCenter I have tried WinData before too -- it is their own brand of media. It IS terrible, so i have never tried the BDRs. their DVDs are often FAKE MCC-003 (or other fake coded MCC/Verbatims). i learned from having many bad burns, and worse, ones that burned okay, but had disk rot sometimes only a week or so later.
I especially have to warn against the DVD9s.
but, yeah, i learned my lesson with their crap media many years ago:P
I don't care if their BD25s are 25 cents each, I don't want to burn something off like a custom subbed disc, and then have it evaporate off of the disc.

[techno1]

I went through 50 of the Optical Quantum White Inkjet Printable discs (OQ/BD-R/04/IPW) from Meritline -- and never had a single bad one. That was on my old Sony drive, though.

Definitely different discs. The ones that failed were from New Egg, are matte nickel in color with the Optical Quantum logo. Disc ID:PHILIP-R04-000

[DMagic1]

Those Optical Quantum disc can be hit or miss. I had two 10 pack spindles that were perfect with my LG then I got two more spindles and half error near the end of the burn.
I left them alone for awhile and got a recent spindle and they are burning fine again. They vary so much in quality I'm afraid to get more than a 10 pack.

since i live by a MicroCenter I have tried WinData before too -- it is their own brand of media. It IS terrible, so i have never tried the BDRs. their DVDs are often FAKE MCC-003 (or other fake coded MCC/Verbatims). i learned from having many bad burns, and worse, ones that burned okay, but had disk rot sometimes only a week or so later.
I especially have to warn against the DVD9s.
but, yeah, i learned my lesson with their crap media many years ago:P
I don't care if their BD25s are 25 cents each, I don't want to burn something off like a custom subbed disc, and then have it evaporate off of the disc.

Actually the Windata BDR are pretty much the same in quality as the Optical Quantum. Same media code also.

[DVDIT]

Those Optical Quantum disc can be hit or miss. I had two 10 pack spindles that were perfect with my LG then I got two more spindles and half error near the end of the burn.
I left them alone for awhile and got a recent spindle and they are burning fine again. They vary so much in quality I'm afraid to get more than a 10 pack.



Actually the Windata BDR are pretty much the same in quality as the Optical Quantum. Same media code also.

Even though they are cheap and seem to have excellent user review, I am afraid to use them not so much whether burn will be successful or not but don't have confidence about their longevity. I have been let down by Ridata DVDs that burned fine but they becomes unreadable after a year. That was about seven years ago and I since changed to Verbatim DVD+R and never experience any issues. Based om that experience I chose Verbatim 96769 for my BD backup and no coaster so far, all burned OK and all tested with CD-Speed for disc quality and surface scan and come out with no errors. I have used the Verbatim 96769 for about 16 months now. At $20 per 10 pack why take a chance on cheap ones. While BD-R archival quality is still unknown, I rather take a chance on a brand that has served me well and are known for their DVD quality.

[hotrodbob1976]

I have used both Memorex and Verbatim, both from Newegg and have burned 30+ with no issues. I also installed the latest firmware for my Liteon drive and now the same disks burn at 9-10x as opposed to 4x using ImgBurn.

[djmasturbeat]

unfortunately, so far I have had more coasterson average with Verbatims, than i have had with Optical Quaanta... and this doesn't even take into account the LTH discs (for awhile i used them since they were cheaper, but then i got some really terrible spindles all at same time).
I never use anything but Verbies for DVD+/-R and that goes double for, well, the doubles, DVD9s. the BDs are not reliable like that tho. too bad.

---------
some deals:

http://www.runtechmedia.com/Product.asp?sku=OQBDR04LT10&a=11&CategoryID=&Format=BD-R

Optical Quantum 4X 25GB BD-R Blu-ray Blank Disc Logo Top
10pk @ $1.10 each (MPN: OQBDR04LT10)
Reg: $18.50 Sale: $10.95
25pk @ $0.96 each (MPN: OQBDR04LT)
Reg: $40 Sale: $23.99
100pk @ $0.90 each (MPN: OQBDR04LT)
Reg: $110 Sale: $90
300pk @ $0.85 each (MPN: OQBDR04LT)

--------------------------------------
also
Newegg has a lot of things with coupon codes, some include codes that get 10% OFF (for me at least, that is for all items in my cart)
10% off w/ promo code EMCKFJE25, ends 4/16

make sure you use the correct code, some have same 10% off, but use different code

[DVDIT]

unfortunately, so far I have had more coasterson average with Verbatims, than i have had with Optical Quaanta... and this doesn't even take into account the LTH discs (for awhile i used them since they were cheaper, but then i got some really terrible spindles all at same time).
I never use anything but Verbies for DVD+/-R and that goes double for, well, the doubles, DVD9s. the BDs are not reliable like that tho. too bad.

---------
some deals:

http://www.runtechmedia.com/Product.asp?sku=OQBDR04LT10&a=11&CategoryID=&Format=BD-R

Optical Quantum 4X 25GB BD-R Blu-ray Blank Disc Logo Top
10pk @ $1.10 each (MPN: OQBDR04LT10)
Reg: $18.50 Sale: $10.95
25pk @ $0.96 each (MPN: OQBDR04LT)
Reg: $40 Sale: $23.99
100pk @ $0.90 each (MPN: OQBDR04LT)
Reg: $110 Sale: $90
300pk @ $0.85 each (MPN: OQBDR04LT)

--------------------------------------
also
Newegg has a lot of things with coupon codes, some include codes that get 10% OFF (for me at least, that is for all items in my cart)


make sure you use the correct code, some have same 10% off, but use different code

Maybe the drive disc compatibility issues ? I use a Pioneer BDR-205 with the verbatim BD-R. I burn only at 4x even though I could burn the discs @ 10x. I have gone through 5 packs so far with a perfect result.

[DVDIT]

Can someone please post the media code for Optical Quantum and Optimum brand discs. I recently bought a TDK branded disc form Japan and the media code is CMCCMGBA3-000 (CMC Magnetics). I thought a disc form Japan would have a TDK MID. Anyways, I think I remember reading somewhere the Optical Quantum and Optimum brand discs also have the same media code as the TDK I got.

[jdobbs]

Here are the three types I have on-hand:

Optical Quantum: PHILIP-R4-000
MERAX: OTCBDR-001-000
RITEK: RITEK-BR2-000

Just a note: Sometimes manufacturers will "borrow" the media code from other discs that have the same characteristics.

[DVDIT]

Here are the three types I have on-hand:

Optical Quantum: PHILIP-R4-000
MERAX: OTCBDR-001-000
RITEK: RITEK-BR2-000

Just a note: Sometimes manufacturers will "borrow" the media code from other discs that have the same characteristics.

Thanks, jdobbs. In case you wanted to know...

Optical Quantum: PHILIP-R4-000 is made by Moser Baer India Ltd
MERAX: OTCBDR-001-000 is made by Optodisc Technology Corporation
RITEK: RITEK-BR2-000 is made by RITEK CORPORATION.

[thegame]

Here are the three types I have on-hand:

Optical Quantum: PHILIP-R4-000
MERAX: OTCBDR-001-000
RITEK: RITEK-BR2-000

Just a note: Sometimes manufacturers will "borrow" the media code from other discs that have the same characteristics.

Thanks for this info, are there any specific brands better for different make drives, for example, I have a Pioneer BDR-203(latest firmware) is there any brand that is better for that drive over others? I have only been using Verbatim blanks but these are more pricey than these you listed, I wouldn't mind trying a different brand, just a little nervous to LOL.

Thanks

[jdobbs]

Thanks for this info, are there any specific brands better for different make drives, for example, I have a Pioneer BDR-203(latest firmware) is there any brand that is better for that drive over others? I have only been using Verbatim blanks but these are more pricey than these you listed, I wouldn't mind trying a different brand, just a little nervous to LOL.

ThanksYou know, honestly I've gone through a lot of brands -- and I have yet to have found one that caused any issues. The first time I ran into any issues at all (after two years of no-coaster burns to pretty much every low-price disc there was) was when my old Sony drive started failing on Ritek discs -- only to start doing the same on others shortly thereafter. I replaced the drive and suddenly all my discs were good again.

My personal belief is that most of what people think are disc issues are actually drive issues.

[DVDIT]

jdobbs,

Have you tired to playback or did error check on some of the discs you burned, say 1 1/2 - 2 years ago? If so, any problem with playback on those cheap discs?

[Capsbackup]

You know, honestly I've gone through a lot of brands -- and I have yet to have found one that caused any issues. The first time I ran into any issues at all (after two years of no-coaster burns to pretty much every low-price disc there was) was when my old Sony drive started failing on Ritek discs -- only to start doing the same on others shortly thereafter. I replaced the drive and suddenly all my discs were good again.

My personal belief is that most of what people think are disc issues are actually drive issues.

I might normally agree with you on this, but unfortunately ( or fortunate for me! :p ), the Optimum 4x, Disc ID: CMCMAG-BA3-00, BD-R I tried a while back were terrible. The disc would start and within 30 seconds through out an error. I would stop and retry this same disc, since it did not say it was written to, but still would not work. I sent them back to Optimum Mfg., and two months later they sent me some more, which one worked ( I guess since it burned an verified with IMGBurn :rolleyes: ), and one more did the same thing.
But since that time I have used Ritek BR2-00, either from Memorex or Ridata spindles, and have not had a single bad burn, and all verify successfully. :)
So my still going strong Matshita 2x burner is still working great, and no more Optimum media for me. :p
Maybe my burner does not agree with this media, if that is a possibility, but I learned not to buy off price alone and don't mess with what works! :cool:

[jdobbs]

jdobbs,

Have you tired to playback or did error check on some of the discs you burned, say 1 1/2 - 2 years ago? If so, any problem with playback on those cheap discs?None so far.

[thegame]

jdobbs,

Have you tired to playback or did error check on some of the discs you burned, say 1 1/2 - 2 years ago? If so, any problem with playback on those cheap discs?

Now that is a good question, definitely want these Discs to hold up as long as they can, don't want no 6-12 month lifespan LOL, I have seen this on cheap DVDr's.

[DVDIT]

None so far.

Good to know. If the burned data integrity holds that long, it probably saferrrrrrrrrrrrr to assume they will hold much longer.

[rysktkr]

I have had several RITEK BR2 disk go bad on me:

Memorex (Blue disk) RITEK BR2 burned 6/09. Have had 7 disks fail out of 15.

RiData (silver disk) RITEK BR2 burned 6/09 had 1 disk fail out of 4 checked.

RiData (printable disk) RITEK BR2. The oldest I have of these are from 4/10. I have not yet seen any failures. Scanned 4 disk using Nero Disk Speed all 4 clean.

As a result of these failures I will be switching to Verbatim.

[DVDIT]

I checked all my Verbatim BD R, using Nero and Opti Drive control and 3 different BR drives. Some were burned as far back as 12/09. All checked out green (100% readable) with Nero ScanDisc and all have very low LDC and BIS values when tested with both Nero and OPD. No need for me to look at another media. Data integrity is more important than saving a few $$.

[Capsbackup]

It was quite some time ago when I burned these discs, once thought successfull Memorex BD-R 25GB (Ritek BR2-00), back in the early development of BD-RB. So some are close to 1 1/2 years old. Well an interesting development to find that the now three tested discs will not play in my PC's Blu-ray player nor my Sony BX-1 and S360! :( :mad:
The player reports Invalid Disc.
So I guess I will have to start checking my previous backups to this media, which is quite extensive, to see how many more are now no longer able to play.
All these discs were once tested on these Sony players to insure they worked originally when made. All verified successfully with IMGBurn! All were kept in Blu-ray cases, standing vertically, stored in a closet with no sunlight and cool conditions... something I was trying to be diligent with so as to avoid this problem.
Needless to say, very disappointing! :devil:
I have all the original Blu-rays, so recreating is only a time consuming process at worst. However, I will have to re-think this since I was not prepared to see such short life for this media. Maybe other brands will be similar, short life!
Since BD-R media is not that old anyway, it will be interesting to hear if anyone else is experiencing this on any / all other brands of media.. time will only tell. :eek:

[DVDIT]

Why is it that disc manufacturers don't make identical BD-R disc just like those used on commercial blu-ray discs ? I see that the dye used are of a different kind.

[Ghitulescu]

So the 50years claim is definitively destroyed.

[DVDIT]

So the 50years claim is definitively destroyed.

I would not jump to that conclusion. So far the reportedly bad disc are made by RITEK. There is a detailed discussion about the failure of this particular media at Club MyCE.

[Ghitulescu]

While I agree grosso modo with you, I have to notice that the medium/media stability dropped much faster than [at its time] the DVDR and [again at its time] CDR. By comparison, the CDR, even if burned at 54x looks like a master of this art. I haven't yet burned BD-Rs (only a few), only BD-REs and I think I'll hardly burn BDRs in the future or at least as long the BD-REs are similarly priced.

[DVDIT]

I have experienced the same issue in the DVD days with Ritek media, where the disc burned were checked and no error found at the time of burn, only to become unreadable a year later. I then changed to Verbatim and never had any disc that failed on me yet (7 years and counting). I am now using Verbatim BD-R as well. I only make backup of those discs we watch multiple times so I don't do that many backups. The wise thing to do is to keep the original disc in a very safe place and away from the kids. That way burning another copy if needed, though a hassle, could easily be done.

[thegame]

I sure am glad I check this thread often, after what I have been reading, I'm sure I am just going to stay with Verbatim blanks, I actually have to place an order now LOL and decided to check this thread first, I use Verbatim dual layer DVD blanks as well, never a bad burn and hold up very well, but for DVD5's, I only use Tayo Yuden, have not had any bad burns and they hold up forever it seems.

[Capsbackup]

After checking several of my Ritek BR2-00 discs, I have found 12 bad so far, and all are the Memorex original royal blue color face ( same color as a Blu-ray case ). None of the silver Ridata cake box nor the greyish/blue color Memorex discs have been bad... yet! :( Some of these silver face ones are as old too, so I am not sure what to make of this. The greyish/blue ones were in the same original looking cake package as the royal blue ones, but must have been the next generation.
And I use to think the color of the royal blue was pretty neat... to distinguish them as Blu-ray media. :rolleyes:

[pan07]

i'm in the same situation as Capsbackup had a few of the ritek dye's no longer playable or readable.

i really should have known better after suffering the same fate with their dvdrs years ago and not touching them since.

will have to start ordering my discs from china again as premium meida is impossible to get at a decent price in the uk

[DVDIT]

i'm in the same situation as Capsbackup had a few of the ritek dye's no longer playable or readable.

i really should have known better after suffering the same fate with their dvdrs years ago and not touching them since.

will have to start ordering my discs from china again as premium meida is impossible to get at a decent price in the uk

Check out these vendors based in Japan that sell through ebay (store name - (From Japan Gift" & "u-japan"). They have premium discs at a reasonable price. If that doesn't work out for you, buy direct from Japan from this vendor. His prices a bit expensive and choices are limited. >>>>
http://nikonekoya.com/a-v-electronics/recording/blu-ray/25gb-bd-r.html

I would stay away from LTH type media for now.

[pan07]

Check out these vendors based in Japan that sell through ebay (store name - (From Japan Gift" & "u-japan"). They have premium discs at a reasonable price. If that doesn't work out for you, buy direct from Japan from this vendor. His prices a bit expensive and choices are limited. >>>>
http://nikonekoya.com/a-v-electronics/recording/blu-ray/25gb-bd-r.html

I would stay away from LTH type media for now.

yeh cheers dvdit i ordered off nikonekoya before but got hammered at customs, it was part of the cdfreaks group buy, think i ordered to many about 50 in jewel cases.
i ordered some 50gb ones in sleeves other week of ebay only took a week to come and no custom charges.

oh and whats is lth media they have some verbs and thats bdr discs pretty cheap that say lth, should i avoid.

[DVDIT]

LTH discs are not compatible with all burners and players. If you want compatibility with all burners and set top players, skip the LTH media.

[CV91913]

I have been buying the Optical Quantum BD-R for quite some time now. Have probably gone through 50+ with no problems. They have a disk ID of "philip-r04-000". I just bought a 25 pack from Amazon for $25 delivered. Great price but these disks have a disk ID of "CMCMAG-BA3-00". These are mfg by CMC Magnetics. Has anyone had any experience with this disk ID??

[Capsbackup]

@CV91913;
What I have learned is that just because you have a successful burn and verify, that does not mean that the discs will last and be usable very long. Even if stored properly. I had only watched some of these discs once, and a few not all the way through but just tested and chapter advanced to the end. So only time will tell. ;)

[jdobbs]

I have been buying the Optical Quantum BD-R for quite some time now. Have probably gone through 50+ with no problems. They have a disk ID of "philip-r04-000". I just bought a 25 pack from Amazon for $25 delivered. Great price but these disks have a disk ID of "CMCMAG-BA3-00". These are mfg by CMC Magnetics. Has anyone had any experience with this disk ID?? I bought quite a few of them from MERITLINE.COM -- they worked well for me.

[DVDIT]

I have been buying the Optical Quantum BD-R for quite some time now. Have probably gone through 50+ with no problems. They have a disk ID of "philip-r04-000". I just bought a 25 pack from Amazon for $25 delivered. Great price but these disks have a disk ID of "CMCMAG-BA3-00". These are mfg by CMC Magnetics. Has anyone had any experience with this disk ID??

I bought a 10 pack TDK discs direct from Japan thinking I would get a TDK ID but the ID turned out to be CMCs, "CMCMAG-BA3-00" to be exact in the inside, while the outside surface has a TDK logo imprint. I burned all of them back in early 2010 and I did a quality check last week all are readable but don't have an a low LDC values as the Verbatim I use. I recently learned from a forum member at Club MyCE, discs with TDK ID can be found here for a $1.25/disc. Those seem to have a very low LDC and BIS values (same as the Verbatim) from the disc quality test results I have seen posted at several threads at MyCE. Discs can be purchased from here >>> http://www.mediamegamall.com/smartblu-m-260.html

[rysktkr]

I am considering verbatim after I have had several RITEK BR2 disk go bad on me:

Memorex (Blue disk) RITEK BR2 burned 6/09. Have had 7 disks fail out of 15.

RiData (silver disk) RITEK BR2 burned 6/09 had 1 disk fail out of 4 checked.

RiData (printable disk) RITEK BR2. The oldest I have of these are from 4/10. I have not yet seen any failures. Scanned 4 disk using Nero Disk Speed all 4 clean.

I am wondering if these Verbatims would give the longetivity I am looking for:

http://www.meritline.com/verbatim-4x...--p-30268.aspx

I want to stay away from the LTH as this is a relatively new technology and prefer not to be a guinea pig at a small savings. I have learned my lesson on that route .

[A.Fenderson]

Bad link.

LTH & organic dye really isn't a new tech, it's what they used in writeable DVDs, I believe--the problem is that it hasn't been in the BD standards from the beginning. I use a combination of Verbatim (HTL) 4x/6x BD-Rs and Verbatim LTH 2x BD-Rs, and so far I've had no problems with them. I know which of my devices will read/write LTH discs and which won't--admittedly, finding that out prior to actually testing the device yourself can be some trouble, but otherwise I think the Verbatim LTH discs are OK, though I haven't run any scans on any of my older burns yet...I'll do that and post back.

[DVDIT]

From what I have read set top players like the Sony S570 and Oppo players don't recognize LTH discs. These are reports I have read and I am sure there may be plenty others that don't play them not to mention your burner might not support LTH discs. They may be supported in the future though. Another thing to consider is the organic dye used in the LTH have less longevity that those used inorganic dye used in the HLT discs. More info about this can be found on the net. I personally have decided long ago to use Verbatim 96769 (MID:VERBAT-IMc-000) and burn @ 4X speed. Not a single coaster nor failing discs in 18 months so far. I check my discs with Nero Disc Speed and recently with Opti Drive control and I get a very low LDC (1-3) and BIS (0-1) values. These disc quality values represent great burns and the values stay the same after several months after burn which could be seen a good indicator of their longevity.


Here is the discs I use. Always buy them from here >>>>

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817130047&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-CD/DVD+R/RW+Media-_-VERBATIM-_-17130047

[RobertM]

FWIW:

I have been trying out a pack of Verbatim BD-25 LTH discs, and they seem to be working fine. I burn with an LG WH10LS30, set ImageBurn to verify upon completion, and then validate with my Sony BDP-S380 (stepping through by chapter to the end). No coasters so far.

It could well be that the S570 won't read LTH; I dunno. But, based on my experience, I would bet that the S580 will.

Regards,
Bob

[A.Fenderson]

I scanned 6 of my BD-R LTH Verbatim 2x burns via Nero DiscSpeed 5, and they all came out 100% "Good", 0% "Bad" or "Damaged". These burns range in age between about 8 months minimum (for the ones I know when they were burned) and up to around 10 months. My burns are stored in translucent Blu-ray cases, upright on shelves, and don't receive any direct sunlight, but other than that no special care has been taken to maintain their condition. If anyone can recommend a different (free) means of scanning the quality of the discs, and they'd like the results, please let me know and I'll give it a shot.

[proxpilot]

i have had quite a few Memorex BD-R's become unreadable. im going to have to put them on the banned list.

[ripburnlearn]

Wow, its good to see a lot of people have been using Optical Quantum discs for a long time. I've been having this mental question for a couple weeks now: "I wonder how well these will last over time". It seems some of you have been using them for close to two years now. Could you tell me if you've had any read errors on this media? I think testing this old media with Nero DiscSpeed 5 would be a fantastic educational piece for everyone. I see people all across the internet wondering the same thing about Optical Quantum's BD-R longevity. So far I haven't burned a coaster, loving their discs right now.

I picked up some optical quantum discs the other day for 76 cents a disc! I would have shared with this community but I had to wait 5 days before I could post... :(

[thegame]

So are these Optical Quantum discs really any good? I always thought they were like an off brand or something, and I ONLY use Verbatim blanks for BD's, and DL DVD's, I mean I want to like them because they really priced good, so can someone tell me if these really hold up like the Verbatim blanks do?

Thanks

[geomtchr]

So are these Optical Quantum discs really any good? I always thought they were like an off brand or something, and I ONLY use Verbatim blanks for BD's, and DL DVD's, I mean I want to like them because they really priced good, so can someone tell me if these really hold up like the Verbatim blanks do?

Thanks

I've not had any problems with the Optical Quantum blu rays. Over 200 burns without any problems. I'v been using these for about 8 months without difficulty, hopefully they will last!

[setarip_old]

@ripburnlearn

Hi! I picked up some optical quantum discs the other day for 76 cents a disc! I would have shared with this community but I had to wait 5 days before I could post... And now that you ARE able to post, perhaps you can let us know where you acquired these Optical Quantum (I presume) BD-Rs...

[ripburnlearn]

@ripburnlearn

Hi! And now that you ARE able to post, perhaps you can let us know where you acquired these Optical Quantum (I presume) BD-Rs... Its at newegg. Although it goes in and out of stock quickly. Save some for me now! :)
Here's a link to it:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817607054&Tpk=N82E16817607054

Newegg also has a 25 pack for $19.99 going on right now (in stock). Although that is a special memorial weekend deal and will be gone in a few days!

[djmasturbeat]

to all the people buying LTH, beware. I burnt them for a while (many months, somewhere over a year maybe), went thru quite a few of them (probably a couple hundred). But then I got a few bad spindles of 20, and almost every single one, or every other one was giving errors galore in ImgBurn. the worst was not the ones that errored out a few minutes into the burn. the worst were the ones that did the whole damn write and couldn't finalize... or they didn't verify -- immediately!
I steer clear of them now.
verbatim with their Lifetime Warranty --they never even got back with me after i sent numerous messages thru the North American branch website. That made me lose a lot of faith in their name, too. Luckily I had bought those 2 packs locally, and was able to return 1 spindle of the 2 (since some of the burns were good, i decided to keep them and return 1 spindles worth and cut my losses).

I am now kinda leery of Verbatim, and have noticed a huge decline in quality of their DVD+/-Rs, too. lots of really thin discs, rough edges, uneven hubs, blotches in the dyes.... signs of junk media. And about all i get when i mailorder them (or that i can find locally) are made in China, India, UAE, you know, all the garbage plants.

I have been having better luck with Optical Quanta BD25 discs than I have had with the Verbatims BD25 (both LTH an HTL), and that is even if i don't include the 2 bad spindles. far fewer bad burns, and rated higher speeds. they do feel like really thin junk, tho, but at least they aren't pretending to be first class, but still outperforming the Verbatims. sad, but true.

That said, I have never used anything but Mitsubishi/Verbatim BD50s for the rare BD50 (custom subbed or made discs), but obviously the choices are fewer and further between.

if anyone is curious, I have found out that the only brands that are definitely always made in Japan (usually top-notch) are any Panasonic BDR 25/50 and only Sony's BDRE 50 (not any other Sony-Branded stuff).

A friend in Japan who can get all of this stuff really cheap recommends against TDK media b/c the coating is so thick it causes issues for a lot of writers (espec the BDRE50s have major issues), and sometimes they snap/break. he also recommended against Maxell, and the JVC/ Victor should only be bought if they are cheaper than the other big brands (they usually aren't). It'd be nice to get newest, highest speed, any brand of BD50s (R and RE both) for $2 each like my friend in Japan (or $1 or less for any major brand of BDR/RE 25).

[DVDIT]

^^^^
I don't know which model # of Verbatim BD-R's you are buying, you are the first one I have seen that experienced issues with them. I have bought at least 20 spindles of Verbatim BD-R at different times from Amazon, Newegg and B&h Photo and all are made in Taiwan NOT the countries you listed above.

[ripburnlearn]

Here's something I can't figure out with verbatim. They made those LTH discs because they could be manufactured cheaper. But consumers aren't seeing these cheaper prices. I've never seen them cheaper than Optical Quantum's discs (which use the more expensive manufacturing techniques).

Plus add to the fact that these discs aren't compatible with all devices and are often questioned with their longevity (I've read reviews on Newegg stating there readability declines drastically over time). Seems like their asking consumers to play Russian Roulette.

[DVDIT]

I say stay away from LTH discs no matter the manufacturer.

[jdobbs]

I say stay away from LTH discs no matter the manufacturer. I think using LTH is simply looking for trouble. What's the point with better true-BD discs selling for about $1 each?

[djmasturbeat]

i agree. I found out. and the prices are not cheaper than many brands have their HTL discs for.
The OQs are working great for me, and New Egg had them on sale again a few days ago (25 packs for 19.99). just don't have the $ to get them. last time i ordered is after getting tax return and i ordered 4 at the $25 price, but now i can't buy any. oh well, i still have enough to last for a good long while.

btw, I also see TY is making LTH BDRs, too ... and so far it is the only BDR type I have seen from TY, but that may be just b/c I don't live in Japan, or haven't looked enough.

[A.Fenderson]

I'm toying with the idea of purchasing a few Optical Quantum for personal trials, and I noticed that their 6x write, dual-layer BD50s are (relatively) cheap at $5 each (http://www.amazon.com/Optical-Quantum-Double-Layer-Silver/dp/B004WYTO8Y/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&qid=1307562139&sr=8-22): has anyone tried these? If they're reliable, they'd almost be worth it for those BDs that have tons of HD bonus features, etc, that make it less desirable to run them through BD-RB.

[JJB]

I'm toying with the idea of purchasing a few Optical Quantum for personal trials, and I noticed that their 6x write, dual-layer BD50s are (relatively) cheap at $5 each (http://www.amazon.com/Optical-Quantum-Double-Layer-Silver/dp/B004WYTO8Y/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&qid=1307562139&sr=8-22): has anyone tried these? If they're reliable, they'd almost be worth it for those BDs that have tons of HD bonus features, etc, that make it less desirable to run them through BD-RB.

You could be a Guinea Pig and go for it @ $5 a pop. Let us know how it feels. If I can buy a 1 year BR movie for $9-10 and most all that I have backed looks superb on DVD5/9 then it seems like a crap shoot for most folks regardless of the extra junk on a BR.

Just put the extras on another 20 cent DVD.:rolleyes:

[jdobbs]

I'm pretty skeptical when I see something for $5 that sells at $20-$30 everywhere else. I become even more skeptical when I read "NOT compatible with all LG 6x, LG 8x, Pioneer 4x, and Pioneer 8x Blu-ray burners". I have to ask myself "why would something that actually meets the BD standard not work with certain burners?"

But if you're willing to take the risk -- try them and report back.

You can get them a little cheaper here (http://www.mediamegamall.com/optical-quantum-bluray-disc-50gb-branded-10pk-cakebox-oqbdrdl06lt10-p-32041.html), but I know nothing about this company.

I also saw what they say are Verbatims here (http://cgi.ebay.com/10-Verbatim-blu-ray-disc-dual-layer-bluray-50GB-bd-4X-/400215068029?pt=BI_Blank_Media&hash=item5d2ead4d7d).

[A.Fenderson]

I'm pretty skeptical when I see something for $5 that sells at $20-$30 everywhere else. I become even more skeptical when I read "NOT compatible with all LG 6x, LG 8x, Pioneer 4x, and Pioneer 8x Blu-ray burners". I have to ask myself "why would something that actually meets the BD standard not work with certain burners?"

But if you're willing to take the risk -- try them and report back.

You can get them a little cheaper here (http://www.mediamegamall.com/optical-quantum-bluray-disc-50gb-branded-10pk-cakebox-oqbdrdl06lt10-p-32041.html), but I know nothing about this company.

I also saw what they say are Verbatims here (http://cgi.ebay.com/10-Verbatim-blu-ray-disc-dual-layer-bluray-50GB-bd-4X-/400215068029?pt=BI_Blank_Media&hash=item5d2ead4d7d).

Damn good question about it not working with certain burners--I didn't even see that until you pointed it out, guess I just assumed something that's flat-out incompatible with certain burners wouldn't get the BD logo.

The Verbatims you linked at around the same price are tempting, but I'm somewhat skeptical of these ebay repacks: not only am I not getting the retail packaging to assure me they're not fakes, but I worry about damage occuring while or as a result of the repacking process--anyone ever ordered any BD50 repacks like this off ebay?

[jdobbs]

Damn good question about it not working with certain burners--I didn't even see that until you pointed it out, guess I just assumed something that's flat-out incompatible with certain burners wouldn't get the BD logo.

The Verbatims you linked at around the same price are tempting, but I'm somewhat skeptical of these ebay repacks: not only am I not getting the retail packaging to assure me they're not fakes, but I worry about damage occuring while or as a result of the repacking process--anyone ever ordered any BD50 repacks like this off ebay? I haven't used e-bay for them...

I just assumed something that's flat-out incompatible with certain burners wouldn't get the BD logo. I guess it could be that the firmware on those drives just doesn't support/recognize the Disc ID.

[hello_hello]

I guess it could be that the firmware on those drives just doesn't support/recognize the Disc ID.

Has the version number of blank discs changed much (as it did with blank DVDs)?

I just stuck a CMCMAG-BA5-000 disc in the drive. Nero tells me it's version 4, ImgBurn tells me it's version 1. I don't know who to believe, but maybe it's a version thing when it comes to compatibility with older burners?
If they're LTH discs not all burners support them.

While I'm butting in, has anyone had any experience with discs using CMCMAG-BA5-000 dye? Any good? I've gone through a couple of spindles now and while I can't run quality tests, they verify at full speed and I've only made one coaster.

[jdobbs]

If they're LTH discs they should be avoided completely. But I couldn't find anything that indicated they were LTH.

[Ch3vr0n]

From what i've heard from my retailer, verbatim stopped production of LTH discs alltogether. Probably due to the small amount of compatible devices. Not confirmed though

[mobie29]

Stay away from LTH BD discs period. Even the Verbatim brand is unreliable.

I use Digistor 25g BD-R's for my projects. I have burned over 250 with zero bad burns and are compatible with all blu ray players as far as i know.

[stereo55]

I'm toying with the idea of purchasing a few Optical Quantum for personal trials, and I noticed that their 6x write, dual-layer BD50s are (relatively) cheap at $5 each (http://www.amazon.com/Optical-Quantum-Double-Layer-Silver/dp/B004WYTO8Y/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&qid=1307562139&sr=8-22): has anyone tried these? If they're reliable, they'd almost be worth it for those BDs that have tons of HD bonus features, etc, that make it less desirable to run them through BD-RB.

Ive been using the Optical Quantum 25's 4x for my last few Blu movie burns without a single hickup . They seem to burn just fine at 4.7x-8x on my LG WH12LS30 .

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817607024

I'd imagine the same "should" apply for the 50 disc .

[jdobbs]

My experience with DVD-9s tells me that you can't make the assumption that dual-layers will act the same as single layers. For a long time a huge percentage of DVD-9s were a high probability for coasters.

[apophis906]

Damn good question about it not working with certain burners--I didn't even see that until you pointed it out, guess I just assumed something that's flat-out incompatible with certain burners wouldn't get the BD logo.

The Verbatims you linked at around the same price are tempting, but I'm somewhat skeptical of these ebay repacks: not only am I not getting the retail packaging to assure me they're not fakes, but I worry about damage occuring while or as a result of the repacking process--anyone ever ordered any BD50 repacks like this off ebay?

I came on here to read what thoughts were on Optical Quantum and saw your post and thought I could help some. I have bought from the seller that jdobbs linked to on ebay a few times. Actually bought from another one as well and I like the way that one packs them better. First thing is that u-japan puts the disc on a spindle. So they are safe for shipping from Japan. Also the Verbatim have the name and speed in small print on the outer edge of the printable area. They also show up as their disc mid as VERBAT-IMd-000. Last set I ordered as a 20+1. They were spread across two small spindles and packed well. To be honest I was like you at first and only wanted sealed disc. When I finally tried a few repacked disc I found that they were repacked well and had no problems with them. I say order a small quantity to see how you like them.

[A.Fenderson]

Good info, thanks!

[apophis906]

Good info, thanks!

Your welcome. Its a tough thing to know if you can trust repacked disc. I know I was pretty worried myself till I took a chance on them.

[Ghitulescu]

Stay away from LTH BD discs period. Even the Verbatim brand is unreliable.

Are there other LTH manufacturers? :p

[A.Fenderson]

Are there other LTH manufacturers? :p

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=26769

http://little-tokyo-from-jpn-to-your-door1.amazonwebstore.com/Victor-Bluray-BDR-Disk-LTH-Type/M/B002SSA3BS.htm?traffic_src=froogle&utm_medium=CSE&utm_source=froogle

[ripburnlearn]

Be quick guys $38 for a 50 pack of Optical Quantum: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817607054

Make sure to enter in that coupon code. This deal is for 24 hours only.

[rs008f]

I get too many data verification errors but the files do play fine. I'm using white inkjet Vinpower 4x BD-R, MID Philip R04. My Blu Ray burners are Lite-On iHBS112 and iHBS212. Can anyone recommend me a compatible Blu Ray media for these burners?

Edit: According to http://blog.consumerpla.net/2011/02/best-blu-ray-media-brands-review.html, I should have gotten Optical Quantum brand instead. Too bad they don't have it in White inkjet.

[A.Fenderson]

Interesting how Verbatim LTH, which receive so much flak here, are one of only three types in the highest-rated "archival quality" category. :)

[RobertM]

Re: Verbatim 97339 discs

Not exactly "inexpensive" (over $2.50 a disc), but they are hub inkjet printable and I've never had a coaster yet. B&H was selling these for over $150 a spindle a while ago, but have dropped the price to $134, so I ordered a pack. Shipping cost to Canada is very reasonable too.

FYI.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/741462-REG/Verbatim_97339_BD_R_Blu_Ray_25GB_6x.html

[worknstiff]

I just recently had a prob with Optical Quantum DVD+R DL --RICOHJPN D01 (067). I have used 3 or 4 of the 50PK spindles and was very pleased since they were only 38 bucks for a 50pk. I never had a problem untill last week and now I've had 5 bad disks. They sometimes fail right at the start of the burn (laser calibration), but the last ones were at 49 or 50 percent complete (at the layer change. BUMMER! I have decided that maybe Verbs are still the DL champ and after I finish this spindle, it's back to Verbatim. At least the price has been reasonable lately, 49 for 50 at Newegg, but still not as cheap as Optical Quantum, sigh!

[jdobbs]

I just recently had a prob with Optical Quantum DVD+R DL --RICOHJPN D01 (067). I have used 3 or 4 of the 50PK spindles and was very pleased since they were only 38 bucks for a 50pk. I never had a problem untill last week and now I've had 5 bad disks. They sometimes fail right at the start of the burn (laser calibration), but the last ones were at 49 or 50 percent complete (at the layer change. BUMMER! I have decided that maybe Verbs are still the DL champ and after I finish this spindle, it's back to Verbatim. At least the price has been reasonable lately, 49 for 50 at Newegg, but still not as cheap as Optical Quantum, sigh!Don't know if this applies -- but I saw something similar once. I turned my computer off and then back on, and the discs were fine. The drive was confused. I even found that the discs I thought were in error now worked.

[worknstiff]

I don't know if this helps, but these disks that failed are taking place on my new computer with an Asus BW-12B1LT/ 12x Blu-Ray Burner. The Optical Quantum DVD+R DL's are rated for 8x but ImgBurn only burns them at 4x speed. I tried putting the files to be burned on different drives and nothing makes it burn at 8x. When a disk fails I can put in another disk and it will then do a successfull burn of the same files and without rebooting. It seems like if it was a computer or drive error then it would keep burning coasters, perhaps I just got hold of a bad spindle. On the other hand my older computer with a LG H20L burner, has never had but a couple of bad burns in over 100 burns of the optical quantum disks, or over a 1000 Verbs. Could just be this asus drive is being picky, and as soon as I finish this last spindle I will feed it 50 verbs and see if it makes a difference.

[RobertM]

For DVD-DL duties I tried Maxell, Memorex, Imation, Sony, ProData, Ritek, TDK and Verbatim. Some of these brands wouldn't burn reliably, some would burn OK but would freeze at the layer break upon playback. I tried a new burner (LG), firmware updates, etc., etc. It was very frustrating.

The ONLY brand that gave consistent 100% performance were the Verbatims. They do tend to be more expensive, but I have had no coasters and no playback problems -- EVER, not even once -- in the couple of years since I started using them exclusively. For me, the extra cost offers very good value, and I won't consider anything but Verbatims for my DVD-DL duties. I'll pay a little more so that I don't have to worry about, and baby-sit, each and every burn.

I am now quite loyal to Verbatim, and I use them for BD-R. They are more expensive, but, so far, they have been 100% reliable.

[Ghitulescu]

For DVD-DL duties I tried Maxell, Memorex, Imation, Sony, ProData, Ritek, TDK and Verbatim. Some of these brands wouldn't burn reliably, some would burn OK but would freeze at the layer break upon playback. I tried a new burner (LG), firmware updates, etc., etc. It was very frustrating.

The ONLY brand that gave consistent 100% performance were the Verbatims. They do tend to be more expensive, but I have had no coasters and no playback problems -- EVER, not even once -- in the couple of years since I started using them exclusively. For me, the extra cost offers very good value, and I won't consider anything but Verbatims for my DVD-DL duties. I'll pay a little more so that I don't have to worry about, and baby-sit, each and every burn.

I am now quite loyal to Verbatim, and I use them for BD-R. They are more expensive, but, so far, they have been 100% reliable.

That was my cree too, however, the new batches of Verbatim DL come from India. I still have the old one, but have any of you tried them and compared to the old ones?

[RobertM]

the new batches of Verbatim DL come from India

The last batch of Verbatim DVD-DLs that I purchased were made in Singapore, and they work fine. I'll keep this in mind and report back when I have to replenish my supply.

[worknstiff]

@RobertM Re:The last batch of Verbatim DVD-DLs that I purchased were made in Singapore, and they work fine.
I was not knocking the Verbatims either, I was just tired of having to buy them even on sale for 29.00 dollars for a 20 pack. Then I saw these Optical Qunatum DVD+R DL's that other people said were of good quality. I agree with everyone about the other crappy DL's like Memorex etc. I just liked that the Optical Quantums were less than a buck a piece and worth a go to see if they were comparable to Verbs. I used about 100 of them with no problems untill this new sandybridge computer with 12x asus bluray drive came along and now I am getting coasters. I don't know if maybe it's a bad spindle or just damged in shipping. I am hoping the burning troubles will go away if I go back to using verbatim DL's again, if not maybe I have some configuration problems to sort out. I wanted to see if anyone else is having problems with these disk too. thanks for all the input, worknstiff

PS: I order the Verbatims from Newegg in CA, and they are from Singapore also, but if you look on the label it says Verbatim Americas LLC Charlotte, NC. I live about 7 miles from there and have to buy them from California because none of the office chains, big box electronics stores, or even Wallymart carry them or can't beat Newegg's prices. How can they be shipped accross the country twice and still be cheaper than buying local???

[QBhd]

I used to have issues burning DL disks with my older LG burner... I went and got a Samsung burner and now every DL disk I throw at it burns without any failure. Makes things nice when I can just grab the cheap Memorex disks that burn at 8x... BTW it was a cheap Samsung drive...

QB

[Ghitulescu]

The last batch of Verbatim DVD-DLs that I purchased were made in Singapore, and they work fine. I'll keep this in mind and report back when I have to replenish my supply.

MIS is also my preferred source for verbatims DL.

[ripburnlearn]

Hey guys, the 50 pack of BD-Rs are on sale for $37 again at newegg! Be quick, these sales NEVER last! Amazing price!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817607054&Tpk=N82E16817607054

[buffalofloyd]

Hey guys, the 50 pack of BD-Rs are on sale for $37 again at newegg! Be quick, these sales NEVER last! Amazing price!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817607054&Tpk=N82E16817607054

Just ordered myself some of these discs. Never burned to a BD disc before cause they're so damn expensive but these were a reasonable price. Hopefully they are not garbage!

[buffalofloyd]

Wow, got my Vinpower bee's in the mail yesterday and ripped off about 10 burns so far with no issues. +1 for those discs, nice and reasonably priced!

[jfcarbel]

I prefer these RiData (http://www.rima.com/prod/1817.html)to the Optical Quantum. They are thicker and seem more durable. They are inkjet printable to the hub and print just fine on my Artisan 710. And are priced very reasonable for inkjet printable. You can also get them at newegg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817132071)as well.

They get high ratings and I have not had a single bad burn out of 30. Then again I use ImgBurn and the very reliable Pioneer burner.

These Optical Quantums (http://www.genesysdtp.com/index.htm?oqldbdrdetails.htm) look very good too and I wonder if they are thicker then the silver ones that seem thin and are sold at newegg.

For DVD-DL I still prefer the Verbatims and I also buy these from rima.com since they are a highly reputable and recommended seller. The last 50 pack I ordered were inkjet printable DVD-DL and were from Singapore.

T

[laserfan]

I have had very good luck with Memorex-branded Ritek BD-Rs and DVD+R DLs lately myself. And it was not very long ago where Memorex and Ritek were total bleep! So Ritek seems to have gotten its act together very well.

[jdobbs]

I rarely have problems with any brand of BD discs. But Ritek just happens to have been an example of where it happened -- so I've been a little resistant to buy them since then.

[jfcarbel]

And it was not very long ago where Memorex and Ritek were total bleep! So Ritek seems to have gotten its act together very well.

Agreed, when I was reading reviews on the Ritek media on other forums and this one, I was like - "is this the same crappy Ritek I remember." But comments were so positive that 8 months ago I gave their media a try and am quite happy to say I have not had a single coaster. But I will for sure go back to this media in 1 and 2 years and do a scan to make sure they still hold up.

Anyone here scan Ritek BD-R media after significant interval? If so, could you post on results.

Before this I was always a Verbatim BD-R advocate and still use both brands. I just wish Verbatim prices on the inkjet printable versions would come down near the Ritek prices. If they did, I would probably swing back to Verbatim.

I am quite interested to see someones experience with these (http://www.amazon.com/DIGISTOR-50GB-BD-R-Media-pack/dp/B004DNA0HI/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top) below $5 BD-R 50GB DL media. In fact, never heard of Digistor until seeing someone post about them here. Anyone here yet give these a try?

[techno1]

Be quick guys $38 for a 50 pack of Optical Quantum: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817607054

Make sure to enter in that coupon code. This deal is for 24 hours only.

I ran out of RiDATA discs this week and "backed-up" True-Grit on some Optical Quantum SL media I've had for a few months. Sure enough my LG standalone player froze and skipped a dozen times or more and locked up at the end. I haven't had this problem with RiDATA media. I use two LG BD Rewriters. One reads, one writes, and ImgBurn. I still have the .iso file so I might run the verify option in ImgBurn against the disc, but I suspect it's a player issue with the Philip R04 media. I'll report back my findings.

[jfcarbel]

I ran out of RiDATA discs this week and "backed-up" True-Grit on some Optical Quantum SL media I've had for a few months. Sure enough my LG standalone player froze and skipped a dozen times or more and locked up at the end. I haven't had this problem with RiDATA media. I use two LG BD Rewriters. One reads, one writes, and ImgBurn. I still have the .iso file so I might run the verify option in ImgBurn against the disc, but I suspect it's a player issue with the Philip R04 media. I'll report back my findings.

Yes, these discs have been problematic with LGs. It seems my Pioneer loves all discs equally. If you ever upgrade your burner in the future go with Pioneer. Ever burner I have owned was a Pioneer and I can only recall burning 2-3 bad DVDs and no bad BDs in over 300+ burns.

[jdobbs]

Yes, these discs have been problematic with LGs. It seems my Pioneer loves all discs equally. If you ever upgrade your burner in the future go with Pioneer. Ever burner I have owned was a Pioneer and I can only recall burning 2-3 bad DVDs and no bad BDs in over 300+ burns.

My LG has no problems with Optical Quantums at all.

[slimm]

Neither does mine. I have two.

[Stereodude]

Rule number one of any burned disc is do a full verify after burning. If the drive that burned it can't read it, toss it and try again. Verbatim BD-R's are the only brand I've not had fail a verify (yet?). I can't say the same for Optical Quantum (Philips) or Memorex (Ritek).

[RoyGBiv-inRI]

Being new to backing up BDs I am considering starting to burn BD-25's instead of BD5's or BD9's. This may already be in this thread, but I've looked through a lot of it and haven't seen it. Can someone tell me the deal about Verbatim's LTH discs? Are they better/worse than others, or is there really no difference at this time? I have a Panasonic BD player, and my understanding is Panasonic players can play LTH discs with the latest firmware (which my player should already have gotten). Are they compatible with other players? If my Panasonic craps out, I don't want to have a bunch of discs I can't play in a new machine. Also, do they require a special burner, or can any BD burner burn those discs?

TIA.

SMK

[Ch3vr0n]

The list of compatible players for the verbatim LTH's is available on the verbatim site but don't bother. From what i've heard they've stopped production on them due to the low amount of compatible devices. Doesn't bother me one bit, they swapped back to the normal ones that can burn at 8-10x

[A.Fenderson]

re LTH:

I've had lots of luck with these: the Verbatim LTH work as well as the Verbatim BD-R (HTL/MABL) discs (or better--they're considered "archival quality" according to this site (http://blog.consumerpla.net/2011/02/best-blu-ray-media-brands-review.html)), so long as you make sure your equipment is compatible FIRST: don't assume it will be. This takes some effort.

The list mentioned above is here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=155169), I posted it, but I haven't updated it in quite a while. IMO, there's nothing wrong with BD-R LTH tech, it's just that since it wasn't part of the spec all along, compatibility with any given device is hit-or-miss.

Also, I've never seen these claims that BD-R LTH discs will be discontinued substantiated anywhere--not saying it's untrue, just that no one who's claimed it has ever provided so much as a link that I've seen. :-)

[Ch3vr0n]

I havent seen an official statement either, its just what my store told me :) That being said if it is true i'm glad they did. The normal ones can burn 25GB in about 15minutes, 2X LTH would take 45 or longer

[A.Fenderson]

That is definitely a factor: it's hard to wait on a 2x LTH to burn when regular 6x discs are done so much faster!

However, I just found these Verbatim 6x LTH discs (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/783593-REG/Verbatim_97344_25GB_6x_Branded_Blu_ray.html)--I've never seen those before. Perhaps LTH is moving forward after all instead of being discontinued. Here's a compatibility chart from Verbatim-Europe (http://www.verbatim-europe.co.uk/pdfs/BD%20Writer%20Compatibility_1.pdf) that includes the 2x and 6x LTH discs.

[jdobbs]

JMHO -- But I'd stay away from LTH. Why ask for trouble when "real" blu-ray discs are available at the same price?

[Ghitulescu]

That is definitely a factor: it's hard to wait on a 2x LTH to burn when regular 6x discs are done so much faster!

You'll loose more time (and money) for repeating the burning every 3-6 months than by doing it at 2x, as high speed burning lowers the quality and the life expectancy of the media.

PS: I've never burnt a BDR at higher than 2x speeds, but I see no reason to deviate from the teaching both the CD and the DVD learned us (me :)).

[hello_hello]

You'll loose more time (and money) for repeating the burning every 3-6 months than by doing it at 2x, as high speed burning lowers the quality and the life expectancy of the media.

Not necessarily. Some burners burn to a particular dye better at faster speeds, some burn to the same dye better at slower speeds. It all depends on the writing strategy of the burner, the firmware, the quality of the hardware, the dye being used etc...
If a particular dye is rated at a certain speed and a good quality burner writes well at that speed, there's nothing to say it'll do a better job at slower speeds, and if in fact the dye is designed to be burned at a certain speed using a certain laser power there's no guarantee lowering both won't reduce the quality. Ever seen blank DVDs which state "for use in high speed burners only"?
There's absolutely no way you can make a generalisation which says higher speeds = lower quality, because it's simply not true.

PS: I've never burnt a BDR at higher than 2x speeds, but I see no reason to deviate from the teaching both the CD and the DVD learned us (me :)).

I can't imagine what that might have been.

[Ghitulescu]

Not necessarily. Some burners burn to a particular dye better at faster speeds, some burn to the same dye better at slower speeds. It all depends on the writing strategy of the burner, the firmware, the quality of the hardware, the dye being used etc...
If a particular dye is rated at a certain speed and a good quality burner writes well at that speed, there's nothing to say it'll do a better job at slower speeds, and if in fact the dye is designed to be burned at a certain speed using a certain laser power there's no guarantee lowering both won't reduce the quality. Ever seen blank DVDs which state "for use in high speed burners only"?
There's absolutely no way you can make a generalisation which says higher speeds = lower quality, because it's simply not true.



I can't imagine what that might have been.

I've tried to explain this several times this issue. I assume you have a good memory (in contrast to other capacities) so I won't repeat it.

And I haven't said "higher speed = lower quality" just "highest speed = lower quality". There is an optimum, a fine balance between the overburning of the dye (which is largely overrated) and other issues, to me more important, like the jitter. The manufacturers label their media according to tests performed on statistical samples taken from larger batches, especially at the beginning of a new technology. Like with CPUs and memories, some discs may be very well "overclocked". And again, like CPUs and memories, not all of them may be "overclocked".

What I can find it curious (the actual meaning is another one) is that nobody cared to show the damages of DVDR burned at 24x, but I can tell that my first DVDRs (burned at 1x, both media and burner rated 4x) some 8-9 years ago, are way below the limits sets by the standard (tested with a Plextor) showing almost no sign of ageing. And nobody likes to make himself a fool by admitting he creates coasters using the max. speed, these reports are usually found in various fora by accident and generally related to other issues.

[Groucho2004]

And I haven't said "higher speed = lower quality" just "highest speed = lower quality".
No, you have not:
You'll loose more time (and money) for repeating the burning every 3-6 months than by doing it at 2x, as high speed burning lowers the quality and the life expectancy of the media.

You remind me of politicians. They also are skilled in denying what they said when it suits them. Very annoying.

[Ghitulescu]

The higher the burning speed the higher the need for the perfect timing - any wrong nanosecond increases the jitter. On top comes the mechanical vibrations that make the laser burn also wrong places.
Jitter is usually not measurable with most drives (it is usually read as data error), but when it goes up you're screwed, few drives have such a good error correction to overcome wrong data. The overburning of the dye is mostly overrated - how come that a burner can do 4x-54x for CDRs and 4x or 6x-24x for DVDRs? How come that professional CD-Recorders, that use 1x, 2x or 4x optics (they used in the '90ies for CD-writers), happily burn 52x computer CDRs in real time, that is 1x, CDRs that play better in standalones and caraudios than CDRs burned in PC-drives at higher/highest speeds (to get the same laser exposure for the dye)? "Smoke gets in your dyes", or what? Someone even wrote that the burners cannot change the laser intensity, which is utterly false ... they can and they do it every time before the actual burn but the designers don't want to spend resources in finetuning their drives for speeds that nobody wants to use them anyway.

However, I'm sick and tired to give one person (under two ids) the opportunity to hunt for errors, as a goal of his life.
Be happy and burn your blanks at speeds that suit your expectations. I know mines ...

[RoyGBiv-inRI]

Well, I thank all of you for the LTH info. I believe that when I do go ahead and get a BD burner, I will just use BD-R media and not likely LTH (unless something changes in the interval).

Thanks.

SMK

[Ghitulescu]

I assume you're old enough to remember the claims of the early nineties, "speeds higher than 4x are unrealistic due to technical issues", also those of the beginning of the new millenium, about the same speed but for the DVD.... And if you're even more older, you'd probably learned by now how to "read" the marketing announcements. I said probably because it's not prima facie evident.

And it's not overburning of the disc (burning more than the rated capacity) but overburning the dye (ie heating it more than it can stand).

The rest of your arguments are theoretical sophisms (ie deductions based on literature and advertising rather than on facts, speculations). On my side, I never had any coaster (except for those DL yielded by a defective burner - it started to burn the DVD, and realised it cannot burn it and aborted the operation but leaving the leadin already written - damn, I wouldn't expect such a behaviour from a Pioneer, since then no Pioneers anymore) and the old discs are as good as they initially were and on par with the fresh burned ones. If one wants to profit from my experience, fine, if not, again, fine.

And if you scroll back the thread of DVD burning quality, you'll find there my experience with a 15 years old Matsushita burner, able to burn DVDR at only 1x (it was built when speeds higher than 4x were technically not possible, remember?) and (of course) RAMs, that burned with its default strategy some 16x-rated nonames at 1x, in the same quality as a tuned Plextor at its optimum strategy for that brand. So much about the laser power, high speed optimisation, and other balooney marketing slogans. My even older TEAC R50 (built even before the RID was invented) burns happily any high speed name or noname CDR with excellent relative quality (there are no longer quality CDRs today, except maybe the CD-R Audio, expensive, and of course the pro/studio ones, very expensive).

You may wanna say that older burners are optimized for lower speeds, but the high speed drives cannot burn at 1x without damaging the dye? Well, let's take the 54x Plextor Premium, that happily burns any CDR at 1x if I instruct it to do this. Or the 44x Yamaha F1. With the same excellent quality. I want even more quality? I'll activate the AMQR (which defaults to 1x, 2x or 4x, depending on the drive, not on the media). How come that the engineers of Yamaha and Plextor never thought of overburning the dye at lower speeds, or did they not find yet that the laser power is fixed? Or the engineers of TEAC, that even today put the optics of their 15 years old W54 (4x) into the professional line of CDR recorders? All the optics in Philips (Marantz, Denon etc.) are the same good old CDD2600 (2x), and yes, these units can be tricked to burn 54x-rated CDRs. Don't they know how bad is to burn at lower speeds, god forbid 1x (real time)? While for you, loosing a disc because of a bad burn is nothing, most people anyway copy not create, a bad burn in a live session is a disaster, an irreplaceable thing.

I think we're getting around. So I'll end here. Not before that I have to say that I've seen the newer generations of BDR in the shelves and they look by far lower quality than their predecessors. The quality drop was even faster than in the CDR/DVDR cases. So a piece of advice, keep well your originals, don't rely on their copies to reconstruct it later on, you may have a bad suprise.

[Ghitulescu]

If you want to ask questions, then open a thread of your own.

[Ghitulescu]

May the Plextor 760 be considered "contemporary", as opposed to 20 years gear? It's the last genuine Plextor.
The best speed over 3 brands (I don't buy crap anyway) is 6x for SL and 4x for DL. Not 18x. Not 16x. This doesn't mean that the burns at 16x are defective, they are quite good indeed, just that not so good as the lowest speed. People don't care, but I do. I pay premium prices and I expect to get premium quality.
I don't want to buy the latest crappy liteons just to see that they are "optimised" for high speeds (because this is the marketing direction and advantage - speed) as opposed to "optimised upon a larger range of speeds". Of course they'll burn bad at 8x or 4x since anyway nobody from the targeted customers will ever attempt to do a 8x, if both the media and the drive were 16x rated they'll cry for 20x.
About outraged consumers, I think there are many hits on google - just that few people consider it justified to complain about a DVDR that costs 0.10$ apiece, they burn another and end of story.

[a.green817]

With BD Rebuilder getting fairly stable now (especially for BD-25 backups) I thought I'd start a thread where we can post our experiences with media that's available and help each other find good deals.

In the past I'd been sticking mainly to Ritek BD-R media, but I recently decided to try and started using these Optical Quantum discs (http://www.meritline.com/optical-quantum-4x-blu-ray-white-inkjet-oqbdr04ipw---p-32886.aspx). So far my luck has been good -- not bad for $79 for a cakebox of 25 ($3.16 each). I haven't hit a bad one yet after about half of one stack (that could be dumb luck), I'll update this post if if I do.

Note: I have no affilliation with MERITLINE -- and I would expect that anyone else posting stick by that rule... otherwise this thread could become a SPAM nightmare and I'll have to close it.

i have been using traxdata no probs no coasters 4x printable £46 for 50 free postage from ebay

[Ghitulescu]

So the Plextor 16x burns are not only not defective, they're actually quite good? So are you saying burning at 16x you won't lose more time (and money) by repeating the burning every 3-6 months, or does "quite good indeed" still lower the quality and the life expectancy of the media? I'm just trying to understand whether you've changed your mind or confused yourself.

I am not confused, but you take disparate pieces of information from various parts of the message, use them out of their context, and hocus pokus, bingo, contradiction.

People don't buy premium products, that are subjected to tighter QC than the cheaper ones (mostly just putting a goldish QC sticker ;)). People are interested more in speed than in quality, and on the very top, the price.

Please don't confuse premium products with mass production. Part of the premium price is the guarantee that this particular product gives quality burns. And it does.

I explained several times the burning technology, yet people like you, that believe every word of the marketing depts, believe that God locally changed the universal physics laws to suit their claims. So, the same dye misteriously (and divinily) changes its meltdown temperature to be optimised for higher speeds.

Yes, I use my extensive experience with CDR and DVDR, since I am not in the possession of BDR quality control tools/software. That a BDR is correctly written (and is correctly read back) is not a guarantee for its quality. Climatic tests have been already shown for CDRs and DVDRs, that even the best burns could age rapidly, while burns that were just OK aged very slow (it's called stability). I see no reason to depart from the teaching CDR/DVDR provided me, since the technology is the same.

One should also not forget that the blue laser rots much rapidly than the red one, so a medium quality burning will sonner stress the reading device than a good one, unlike the DVD (or CD) where these tolerances were high enough.

[Wolfe999]

@Ghitulescu & hello_hello: In no way this comment is meant to offend you... but you're beginning to hijack this thread seriously and completely, and I don't think that's of any use to people like me who come here to see if they can find a new offer posted or some worthy information about x brand of media.

So, please, could you take this discussion to a thread of its own? I believe it would benefit everybody, as we'd all know where to go to read what we want to read at any specific moment.

Thank you :)

[RobertM]

Wolfe,... agreed. This thread is supposed to be about where to find good deals on blank media. Somebody should shut down this argument.

[laserfan]

Just click on the ! icon on their posts and let a mod deal with them. As for whether they qualify as fighting, harassment, or rudeness, I for one would say "all three"!

[RobertM]

Hello hello_hello, ;)

You seem like a reasonable fellow, so might I suggest that you edit your last posting to remove sentences 2 and 4. No sense stoking a fire that we are trying to put out.

[Ghitulescu]

I apologise for my inadequate behaviour with respect to the following issues in no particular order:
- for mistaking this thread for a thread where one want to obtain the best quality : price ratio. For the cheapest BD-R (actually for all merchandises) we have in Germany www.guenstiger.de and many other similar sites, that list the cheapest online prices for a quite a large number of sellers and shops, that also have comments and quality ratings. It never crossed my mind that people wanted only the lowest price possible, because there were other way of getting this info
- for trying to provide arguments for quality burns, which issue was of course irrelevant for the topic
- for crossing my word to ignore a certain member, which has a habit of commenting almost each post of mine
- and last but not least for challenging with nonsense arguments the opinion of the greatest guru the earth has seen with respect to burning issues, thus polluting this thread with a futile discussion.
It will never happen.

[RobertM]

Ghitulescu, don't get mad. I'm not saying that your arguments don't have merit, and I do appreciate that you are passionate about defending your opinions. But this particular thread is just not the place for this detailed argument about BD-R disc technology.

hello_hello, don't get mad. All I was suggesting is that if you are trying to withdraw gracefully from an argument -- not conceed, but just withdraw -- then you probably shouldn't include barbed comments when you do so, or there will be unnecessary, lingering animosity.

[Ghitulescu]

I am not mad at all, I just wanted to summarize all the facts that I know about burning issues.
Since it doesn't count at all if 99% of all users suggest that a certain BDR brand is terrific if your burner is not able to burn it.
I own a LiteOn BDR burner and it failed to correctly write a BDR (I can use that disc only on PC and mediaplayers but not on most BDplayers) - exactly the same project has been written with an LG on a BDR from the same batch and its burn works just perfect. That probably explains the decline of liteon and the outsource of Sony to Panasonic (all business laptops from sony use matsushita drives) and all sony media I've used do far were all panny (MEI). I feel the need to remember that all Sony DVD writers were LiteOns.

[DMagic1]

Yes, these discs have been problematic with LGs. It seems my Pioneer loves all discs equally. If you ever upgrade your burner in the future go with Pioneer. Ever burner I have owned was a Pioneer and I can only recall burning 2-3 bad DVDs and no bad BDs in over 300+ burns.

I have to agree. I had a LG before and had 40% problems with those Optical Quantum. Of that 40% about half would only burn at 4x even when 8x was selected and the other half would result in a failure near the end of the burn.

I upgraded to the Pioneer and only had about 10% problems with the Optical Quantum. That 10% would just burn at 4x with no failure.

I also used Kodak BD-R (http://www.meritline.com/kodak-52125-blu-ray-media-disc-bd-r-disc-4x-25gb-white-printable---p-43459.aspx) which has the same media ID as the Optical Quantum PHILIPR04 and had better success even when with the LG.

I've also tried these Unnamed BD-R (http://www.meritline.com/blu-ray-bd-r-4x-25gb-white-inkjet-hub-printable---p-57668.aspx) before which had media ID OTCBDR001 and only burned at 4x both the LG and Pioneer. They worked pretty good with no failures.

I just got an order of these new Titan (http://www.supermediastore.com/category/a/titan-blank-recordable-blu-ray-bd-r-re-disc-discs-media) BD-R. Media ID is CMCMAG-BA3-000 and burn up to 10x with the Pioneer 206. Hopefully they will work out. Just did my first burn with them at 8x with no issue.

[Ch3vr0n]

@Dmagic1: did you ever think your media might be the cause and not the drive. I've got 3 LG drives with them and only use quality verbatim media. I've got a 100% burn rate every time, 0 failures on my LG BH10LS30, BH08LS20 and my GH20NS10

[DMagic1]

@Dmagic1: did you ever think your media might be the cause and not the drive. I've got 3 LG drives with them and only use quality verbatim media. I've got a 100% burn rate every time, 0 failures on my LG BH10LS30, BH08LS20 and my GH20NS10

Yes that actually what my statement started with, a quote from jfcarbel.
-"Yes, these discs have been problematic with LGs".-
I'm pretty sure its the disc thats why I've tried other inexpensive brands as other options.

[jdobbs]

Yes that actually what my statement started with, a quote from jfcarbel.
-"Yes, these discs have been problematic with LGs".-
I'm pretty sure its the disc thats why I've tried other inexpensive brands as other options. I don't think it would be correct to say that, though, seeing as myself and at least one other person with an LG burner have said we are having no problems with Optical Quantum discs.

[DMagic1]

Well that's the case with cheaper media. They may vary batch to batch. I even exchanged one LG for a new LG thinking maybe it was the drive. I've gone thru one spindle without issue and have the next one have 4 out 10 fail. You may want to look at the write surface after you burn also. With some of those Optical Quantum I would see what can best be described as dots in the burn rings.

I'm not saying that Optical Quantum are bad, I've just had an issue with about 3 out of 4 spindles I've got at different times. Maybe they're better now, maybe not. Since I no longer have the LG I cant say how the current quality is now as it relates to the LG.

That same media code finds its way on Kodak, Windata, Optical Quantum, and a few other low end makes. Surely you can't expect them to all be of the same quality? This forum isn't as focused on media and hardware as another I'm involved in but believe me I've done a lot of media and burner testing over the years. This isn't something I haven't seen before.

If a brand works for you without issue use it. I've always believed that. When everyone was saying use Verbatim DVDR I used cheaper Prodisc because they worked well for me and my burner of choice.

[CV91913]

I have a LG BH10LS30 and have burned 50 or 60 of the Optical Quantum BD discs (generally use 10 piece spindles.) I always burn and verify and have never had a failure. Have also watched all of them. I do burn at 4x. I have only been doing these discs for about 6 or 7 months so I can't comment on how they hold up over time.

[jdobbs]

I have a LG BH10LS30 and have burned 50 or 60 of the Optical Quantum BD discs (generally use 10 piece spindles.) I always burn and verify and have never had a failure. Have also watched all of them. I do burn at 4x. I have only been doing these discs for about 6 or 7 months so I can't comment on how they hold up over time. I also always burn at 4x.

[Stereodude]

I have a LG BH10LS30 and have burned 50 or 60 of the Optical Quantum BD discs (generally use 10 piece spindles.) I always burn and verify and have never had a failure. Have also watched all of them. I do burn at 4x. I have only been doing these discs for about 6 or 7 months so I can't comment on how they hold up over time.My Pioneer BDR-206 has had a few Optical Quantum and Memorex (Ritek) discs fail a verify. Not a lot, but a few. I burn mostly at 4x or 6x.

[Ghitulescu]

What was the success rate at 2x? Just for curiosity ... Even if only a few discs from a batch failed, I would assume the other "QC passed" ones are not so OK.

I said long time ago, verify after burning is not a quality control test. Like sailing, it just says "it floats upon water". One needs a sonar to find how deep is the water (or how close the underwater cliffs are), to know how dangerous the sailing is.

[Groucho2004]

I said long time ago, verify after burning is not a quality control test. Like sailing, it just says "it floats upon water". One needs a sonar to find how deep is the water (or how close the underwater cliffs are), to know how dangerous the sailing is.

I just ordered a Sony BWU-500S and a bunch of Verbatim SL-25 based on this (http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=29942) review. It looks pretty good, see the summary of quality tests (http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=29942&PageId=34).
I'll be using "Opti Drive Control" as my "sonar". Let's hope I won't hit any cliffs.

[jdobbs]

I just ordered a Sony BWU-500S and a bunch of Verbatim SL-25 based on this (http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=29942) review. It looks pretty good, see the summary of quality tests (http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=29942&PageId=34).
I'll be using "Opti Drive Control" as my "sonar". Let's hope I won't hit any cliffs. I used to have a Sony BWU-200S. It was a great drive. After a few years it finally gave out, but it's fair to say I'm not your typical user and that meant a couple of thousand successful burns.

[Ghitulescu]

I just ordered a Sony BWU-500S and a bunch of Verbatim SL-25 based on this (http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=29942) review. It looks pretty good, see the summary of quality tests (http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=29942&PageId=34).
I'll be using "Opti Drive Control" as my "sonar". Let's hope I won't hit any cliffs.

That's a LiteOn iHBS112 clone, despite NEC-like bezel. Even the tests are striking close -> http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=28230&PageId=36
I have the LiteOn and it failed a Panny (it burned the BDR ok, just wrong - it can be read on PC and mediaplayers but not on real BD-players).

But it's a good news that it will burn verbatims ok. I have some, too.

[Groucho2004]

That's a LiteOn iHBS112 clone, despite NEC-like bezel.
Yeah, I knew that.

I have the LiteOn and it failed a Panny (it burned the BDR ok, just wrong - it can be read on PC and mediaplayers but not on real BD-players).
Could you elaborate a bit? Which Panny did it fail on? What media? Which authoring tool?

The Sony apparently has a better firmware than the Lite-on, let's hope this also improves compatibility.
I'll be playing the disks exclusively on a Sony BDP-S350.

[Ghitulescu]

Could you elaborate a bit? Which Panny did it fail on? What media? Which authoring tool?

The Sony apparently has a better firmware than the Lite-on, let's hope this also improves compatibility.
I'll be playing the disks exclusively on a Sony BDP-S350.

Sure, I repeat an earlier post.
I own a LiteOn BDR burner and it failed to correctly write a BDR (I can use that disc only on PC and mediaplayers but not on most BDplayers) - exactly the same project has been written with an LG on a BDR from the same batch and its burn works just perfect. That probably explains the decline of liteon and the outsource of Sony to Panasonic (all business laptops from sony use matsushita drives) and all sony media I've used do far were all panny (MEI). I feel the need to remember that all Sony DVD writers were LiteOns.

I managed once to get a batch of Panasonic BD-R 25GB for Data (see this post too -> http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=157750) and did a backup of a 23GB movie onto one disc. I own a Pioneer, quite old, but I've chosen it for it could play almost everything (all codecs on all media - a fact that is not granted). It refused the disc, an identical disc was played flawlessly. Both discs have no problems in terms of quality, so I assume it has something to do with the format data was written.

[GaPony]

I don't think it would be correct to say that, though, seeing as myself and at least one other person with an LG burner have said we are having no problems with Optical Quantum discs.

I have two different models of LG drives and have had no problems with the Optical Quantum. I've only used about 500 of them, but feel thats a pretty good quantity with which to form a reasonable conclusion.

This isn't really that much of a revelation though, since I have used several different brands and haven't had any problems from any BD-R media that I have used.

I also only burn at 4x and don't overclock my PC.

[Rich86]

I have a Lite-On iHBS112 in my system. It has worked just fine since I installed it in January, 2011. I've been using Merax branded 25gb BD-R media (Opto media code) and Ritek. I burn using Imgburn. They seem to work just fine and are readable everywhere (including my primary blu-ray player - a Sony BDP-S1000es). I expect these burned BD-Rs play fine on a S350 or S550 also.
I'm about to pick up a 5 pack of Fujifilm BD-RE media. Has anyone tried these out?

Update: My 2nd stack of Merax (Opto media apparently) won't even write the lead-in in my drive. They fail 100%. Meritline blew me off when I contacted them. What a waste.
The Riteks (currently a spindle under the Imation brand name) continue to work perfectly.
The Fujifilm BD-RE media works fine.

[Ghitulescu]

Both Sonies are extremely tolerant, don't worry. And the drives come from Panasonic, one additional reason not to worry.

[Rich86]

I have a Lite-On iHBS112 in my system. It has worked just fine since I installed it in January, 2011. I've been using Merax branded 25gb BD-R media (Opto media code) and Ritek. I burn using Imgburn. They seem to work just fine and are readable everywhere (including my primary blu-ray player - a Sony BDP-S1000es). I expect these burned BD-Rs play fine on a S350 or S550 also.
I'm about to pick up a 5 pack of Fujifilm BD-RE media. Has anyone tried these out?

I've used a couple of the Fuji BDRE media I mentioned in my previous post. So far, they seem to work fine (although slow, as they are 1-2x media and the drive insists on 1x). I'm using a Lite-ON iHBS112 BD drive. They burned without a problem and played back on my Sony BDP-S1000es perfectly. We'll see how they do after being erased and rewritten a few times.
Update: The Fuji BD-RE media are continuing to work just fine after a number of erasures/rewrites.

[Capsbackup]

@Rich86;
If you do a full format, rather than a quick format, with ImgBurn, then you will be able to get 2x write speed. You only need do this once, and it will take quite some time ( 45 to 90 min. :( ) but it will be worth it! ;)

[Rich86]

@Rich86;
If you do a full format, rather than a quick format, with ImgBurn, then you will be able to get 2x write speed. You only need do this once, and it will take quite some time ( 45 to 90 min. :( ) but it will be worth it! ;)

I'll give that a try. Thanks.

[laserfan]

Newegg has the inkjet hub-printable RiDATA 25 packs (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817132071) on sale for $21, no coupon needed. Last year I paid $60 for this same cake. Not a single coaster yet with my LG burner.

The 30-disc Memorex are also on sale for $26.99, though you need a coupon.

I'm amazed at these as it wasn't too long ago we thought Ritek made crappy discs...

[setarip_old]

@laserfan I'm amazed at these as it wasn't too long ago we thought Ritek made crappy discs... It seems to go in cycles. Even further back, for the first two years or so of available writeable DVD media, Ritek/Ridata was far and away the most reliable brand/MID (Brand and MID were one and the same at that time)...

[Rich86]

I have been slowly working my way through a 25 pack of Ritek inkjet printable BD-R media with no problems whatsoever, so far. Burning them at 4x in my Lite-on 112 burner using imgburn.

[techno1]

I'm an avid RiDATA BD-R user but could not resist a recent sale @ FRY's for a 50 Pack for $39.99. I burned a test disk with Nero Speed Disk and it passed without any errors. However, I've had skipping problems on my standalone LG player with Optical Quantum of the same Disc ID. Tonite I'm "backing up" Dexter S5 D2. Wish me luck. :eek:

BD Disc Information:
Disc ID: PHILIP-R04-000
Disc Type: BD-R
Disc Size: 120mm
Disc Class: 0
Disc Version: 1
Number of Layers: 1
Layer Type: Writable
DVD Layer Present: No
CD Layer Present: No
Channel Bit Length: 74.5nm (25GB Per Layer)
Push-Pull Polarity: Positive
Recorded Mark Polarity: HTL
BCA Present: Yes
Maximum Transfer Rate: Not Specified
First PAA of Data Zone: 131,072
Last PAA of Data Zone: 1,658,494

[techno1]

I have been slowly working my way through a 25 pack of Ritek inkjet printable BD-R media with no problems whatsoever, so far. Burning them at 4x in my Lite-on 112 burner using imgburn.
Does the label say Ritek or RiDATA? I use RiDATA 1-4x and have never had a problem burning or playing.

[Rich86]

Does the label say Ritek or RiDATA? I use RiDATA 1-4x and have never had a problem burning or playing.

RiDATA BD-R 4x (it says 1-4x below the label quoted above). However, my Lite-On drive and Imgburn only see 4x as a valid write speed. So far, I've had 100% successful burns with perfect playback.

[Video Dude]

Is it true Verbatim discontinued BD-R discs?

Many online media stores have posted discontinued notices on Verbatim BD-R disc pages. I also saw a discontinued notice on B&H and in customer reviews on Newegg.

I looked for an official Verbatim statement but could not find one.

[Ghitulescu]

They discontinued the 4x only. 6x is still manufactured.
Learn how to read an announcement ;)
That's a normal process, it happened to CDRs (they "discontinued" everything but 52x) and to DVDRs (only 16x are to be found), too.
Why would one manufacture 4x DVDRs when everyone cries I WANT 24x, including magazines and internet?

[BassPig]

I bought some of the Blaze BD-R media a while back, maybe late 2009 or early 2010 and burned a few video productions to them on my LG burner. The burns went fine, but I found that the discs' longevity were not good. One of the discs played flawlessly for 7 or 8 plays, but by the 9th, had trouble reading the menu. Intermittent problems recognizing the disc in my Oppo BDP83. By the 11th play, the disc was not recognized at all. I had left one of these discs in the player all weekend, just looping the menu. Apparently, the dye layer was affected by the read laser over that period. As a result, I am careful not to leave my BD-R productions in any player except while being actually watched.
I don't know if there is a problem with other media, but the Blaze so far are the first BD-R media that I've seen go bad with play.
I'm using Panasonic and now the latest Verbatim media, and waiting to see if they all get past a dozen plays and still remain useable.
BTW, I discovered that in order to burn 6X media at more than 1X, one has to turn off the defect management in Nero. Now I get 5.8X by the end of the burn and discs take about 15-18 minutes instead of 2 hours to burn. I think this defect management option is advisable for questionable media whose surface might not be up to the quality standards of a major brand.
Time will tell as to how this plays out. I burned nearly a half dozen BD-R titles last night and this morning and will be evaluating them in the next few days.

[Ch3vr0n]

Verbatim is quality media mate, they'll last for years. I know it isnt exactly the same but i've got DVD's i burnt in the early 2000's and that have been stored in 200CD boxes in paper/plastic kinda sleeves and they still play perfectly. Oh and about that 1X burn issue, that's the write/verify option. Hate that kinda thing too, though if i can give you a piece of advice. Drop nero alltogether for burning blu-rays. It sucks compared to IMGburn (wich is free, not nearly as bloated with crapware and a 100x better), that and the closer you get to the edges of a disc burning, the higher the tendancy is nero tends to have to fail to complete the burn. Wether it's cd/dvd/blu-ray. Something it tends to do. I've pretty much completely replaced nero by other stuff that's just as good or even better and free (and in most cases free).

standard CD: iTunes
mp3 cd's: iTunes
video dvd: imgburn
data discs: imgburn
blu-ray: imgburn
1:1 copies for anything except blu-ray: CloneCD (slysoft)

[jdobbs]

I have to agree with that. I really don't know why anyone would use Nero when ImgBurn is free, complete, and does everything. More importantly it does everything very well.

[BassPig]

Now that I'm able to obtain the Verbatim at good prices, I'm stocking up on it. I opened a new spindle of them this week and like the way they burn and play. No glitches.

Nero has been a solid performer for me, though I will say it has one annoying flaw: if the folders have been moved or deleted, and the disc to be written is a BD, Nero won't warn of the missing files until it starts burning! As to what it burns to the BD-R, I have no idea, but, due to a hard drive failure last month, I lost a bunch of stuff. Went to burn a compilation, not realizing that the source files were on the drive that had been replaced, and Nero happily loaded it and offered NO warning of the missing folders! I hit the burn button and went away. Came back 20 minutes later and noticed a bunch of stuff scrolling in the status window--it was a bunch of missing folders. "There goes a coaster!" I said.

For DVD video, Nero makes a lot of visual noise if anything is missing or replaced in the source folders. Why it does not for BD is a mystery, but given the cost of the media, one would expect more care be taken to detect missing files before allowing a burn session.

I have ImgBurn, but seldem played with it because Nero generally works fine, caveates noted above.

Oh, that reminds me... back in '05, I bought some Meritline unbranded DVD-R, cheap. Wrote a bunch of MP3s to them. Stored in jewel cases on my shelf. 4 years later, I tried to grab some MP3s off those discs.. after a long wait, Windows produced a BLANK Explorer window. I tried a data recovery program, and it was unable to recover any of the disc. Over 90% of it was unreadable. Lesson: Cheap discs are for throwaway demos only, no archiving.

[JJB]

I have ImgBurn, but seldem played with it because Nero generally works fine, caveates noted above.



Imgburn always works great that is the exact reason it is the software of choice!:D

[Ghitulescu]

I have to agree with that. I really don't know why anyone would use Nero when ImgBurn is free, complete, and does everything.
Maybe because it comes with the drive. And also because it does a little more, especially for people that do not care about the result.

[DVDIT]

If you want trouble free burn, always use Imgburn, nothing but Imgburn.

[BassPig]

If ImgBurn were proven to make BD-Rs that statistically were readable in a greater number of set top Blu-ray players, then I would run--not walk--but run to it immediately. But I have yet to read that ImgBurn makes a more compatible BD-R.

I use Nero because Prassi Primo DVD stopped working years ago when I upgraded my hardware and they no longer updated the program to support the latest DVD burners of the time. Then I switched to Nero 6 at the time, which everyone raved about as being THE software of choice to burn DVD-R. Now, two whole versions later, and with BD-R media and burners, I am pretty happy with Nero's results. They fixed some little bugs about not storing the volume label of the project and so I really have no reason to switch, unless someone can show me scientific test results that the BD-Rs from ImgBurn will read in players that won't read the same BD-R content burned in Nero. Compatibility is my biggest concern, because clients return discs that don't play and suddenly it's MY problem and I'm somehow the villain, not the companies that made BD such an unfriendly format for indie video folks. :-\

[Ch3vr0n]

If they're player won't recognise the discs, it's not always due to a lousy burn but often the player just doesnt "see" the disc or doesnt "like" it while technically the disc is just fine. This sort of behavior is usually to blame to the use of crappy brand of blank media such as memorex etc. The reason alot of use prefer imgburn over nero is because

1) imgburn isnt bloated and filled with stuff ppl hardly ever read/use. You tell me, is an RSS stream needed in burning software? is a backup agent needed that takes backups of cd's/dvd's/flashdrives, ... in burn software. that's the exact opposite of its true purpose
2) IMGBurn is less prone to burn errors near the edges of discs. Especially for blu-ray's and 1:1 (on-the-fly) copying
3) IMGBurn is FREE, nero isnt.

[setarip_old]

@BassPig

Hi! Compatibility is my biggest concern, because clients return discs that don't play and suddenly it's MY problemAs a businessperson, I'm sure you maintain records regarding these failed returns.

What have you determined to be the primary cause of these failed returns and what have you done to correct the problem(s) going forward?

Is it media quality related? Burn speed related? Player related? Creation software related?

[laserfan]

setarip's right--we don't know WHAT kind of problem you have; there are a number of links-in-the-chain that need to be examined. As one example, there are some set-top BD players that won't play burned BD-REs PERIOD! Indeed you're likely barking-up the wrong tree with just the burning step.

[BassPig]

We're not 100% certain of the cause, but it appears to be that various players do not like to play non-AACS encrypted discs. The manufacturers have been largely mum on the issue, but Sharp Electronics said that their players do not support burned media as an anti-piracy measure and that it's by intent.

We regularly conduct surveys by sending someone out to retail stores that have BD players on display as demo units. Our guy puts in a burned disc and notes the model number, date and playback result. Admittedly, the last survey was 2 years ago, and at that time, 53% of the players available on store shelves were unable to play our test disc.

That said, I've spent a good week getting familiar with ImgBurn. I like it. Although it lacks templates for various types of projects, so I'm not confident that the file structure of the disc I'm burning is correct for a given type, except for BD and DVD, where ImgBurn will pop up a dialog that it thinks you're trying to burn such a type and to confirm so it will make corrections to file and disc type info.

I've also found some nice options to tweak the speed of writing. Just burned a Blu-ray disc on the new LG burner with Verbatim's best media at a record-breaking speed:

19:10:49 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:12:35
19:10:49 Average Write Rate: 30,027 KB/s (6.7x) - Maximum Write Rate: 36,365 KB/s (8.1x)

That was very impressive. What's more, the disc played all the way through on the Oppo BDP-83 that we use in our screening room. No glitches. In the past, this particular disc title took about 2 hours to burn with Nero. That alone makes ImgBurn worth using. I've spent hours reading through the online instruction manual and FAQ. Still trying to wrap my brain around certain things. Then I have to train staff on how to use it, or make templates for them to use for each given type of project.

I had to replace a hard drive in one of our editing boxes last week and the floppy disk with the WD setup utility was 'bad media' after many years. I downloaded a new disc and made a new floppy, but though, wouldn't it be great to make a bootable CD with this software that doesn't loose it's magnetic flux over time... I found out that I could easily extract the boot image from this floopy, save it as an ISO and burn a bootable CD. I tested the CD and it works.

So, despite the complexity of ImgBurn, I like the new capabilities very much. I'm sold on it. Thanks to everyone who recommended it!

[setarip_old]

@BassPig Compatibility is my biggest concern, because clients return discs that don't play and suddenly it's MY problem and I'm somehow the villain, not the companies that made BD such an unfriendly format for indie video folks... We're not 100% certain of the cause, but it appears to be that various players do not like to play non-AACS encrypted discs. The manufacturers have been largely mum on the issue, but Sharp Electronics said that their players do not support burned media as an anti-piracy measure and that it's by intent.
Do I correctly infer from these statements that people are willing to pay your firm for BURNED (not pressed) Blu-rays?

[Ghitulescu]

We're not 100% certain of the cause, but it appears to be that various players do not like to play non-AACS encrypted discs. The manufacturers have been largely mum on the issue, but Sharp Electronics said that their players do not support burned media as an anti-piracy measure and that it's by intent.

That was true with their first two models. Like JVC 10 years ago, Sharp found out, too, that the customers didn't like "very much" players that play only originals (especially at the MSRP they quoted) and released FW upgrades to make even them to read burned BDRs. Newer models from Sharp (and those from Pioneer that were manufactured by Sharp) do read BDRs.

[BassPig]

Re: compatibility, we're seeing an increasing number of event video clients who are requesting the BD version after having seen a demo in our screening room. About 80% of clients to whom we show the DVD sample and then a BD sample, say they'll pay a little extra for the BD version. Usually, we're talking 3-25 copies, not enough for a replicated BD and certainly not the kind of budget where BD's AACS licensing would be covered.

It's good news to hear that Sharp learned their lesson from angry customers. I would be very angry if I'd found out my player was intentionally crippled, too. Frankly, my wife bought a new Sony BD player for $109 at Costco and for kicks, I tried one of our discs in it and, delightfully, it played. So it appears that the tide is turning. Now to hope that the first gen of $500 BD players gets purges from owners real soon so I don't have to deal with them anymore. :)

[ruva]

Anyone has found a good deal on BD-R DL ?
Since there is no way to reencode a 3d Movie to make it fit in a 25gb disk, I see no other option than o DL support.
thanks,
ruva

[jdobbs]

Anyone has found a good deal on BD-R DL ?
Since there is no way to reencode a 3d Movie to make it fit in a 25gb disk, I see no other option than o DL support.
thanks,
ruva

Really? I would think 3 movies would look fine. That's almost 8GB per movie -- which is plenty unless you are keeping HD audio (which isn't recommended because HD audio serves no real purpose).

[JJB]

Really? I would think 3 movies would look fine. That's almost 8GB per movie -- which is plenty unless you are keeping HD audio (which isn't recommended because HD audio serves no real purpose).

I think he was referring to 3D movies....

[jdobbs]

I think he was referring to 3D movies....Haha... :) I guess I need some reading glasses. Unfortunately I haven't see any cheap DLs. Hmmm... I may need to get a DL BD-RE for testing. I'm not sure whether creating an ISO image would actually work on a 3D disc. I've never tried.

I think you can get a 25 pack spindle for about $180 at Meritline -- that's about $7 a disc. Not too bad I guess.

[ruva]

Yes, I meant 3D movies.
I found on ebay, from Japan, deals on Verbatim: 50 disk for eur 168.9 ( $ 213) or 20 disk for eur 72.9 ( $ 92 )
Free shipping.

[JJB]

Haha... :) I guess I need some reading glasses. Unfortunately I haven't see any cheap DLs. Hmmm... I may need to get a DL BD-RE for testing. I'm not sure whether creating an ISO image would actually work on a 3D disc. I've never tried.

I think you can get a 25 pack spindle for about $180 at Meritline -- that's about $7 a disc. Not too bad I guess.

I have 50" Samung and a 40" Sony and for the life of me all DVD5\9 movies work outstanding for me. I do some DB25 but only keepers such as Bond Movies (And I can't tell the difference}, etc.
But again this is on an Oppo BD-93 which makes everything perfect....

[jfcarbel]

Getting ready to order some more media. Had no issues with any coasters at all with either my last batch of RiData or the Optical Quantums.

But I am now seeing on newegg with recent reviews that folks are complaining that latest batches of RiData being problematic.

What worries me is one reviewer mentioning had no problems with any burns, but then checked his RiData burns a year later and they are no all failing after multiple plays.

What I do not understand, is why high quality manufacturer like Taiyo Yuden is not producing any BD-R media.

I am now wondering if I should go back to Verbatim to be on the safe side, but there inkjet printable media is at $2 a disc versus half that for RiData and Optical Quantum.

[DVDIT]

Getting ready to order some more media. Had no issues with any coasters at all with either my last batch of RiData or the Optical Quantums.

But I am now seeing on newegg with recent reviews that folks are complaining that latest batches of RiData being problematic.

What worries me is one reviewer mentioning had no problems with any burns, but then checked his RiData burns a year later and they are no all failing after multiple plays.

What I do not understand, is why high quality manufacturer like Taiyo Yuden is not producing any BD-R media.

I am now wondering if I should go back to Verbatim to be on the safe side, but there inkjet printable media is at $2 a disc versus half that for RiData and Optical Quantum.

Hate to say if but you get what you pay for. That is exactly what happened to me to all the DVD's. I then switched to Verbatim and never experienced a single failure after many years. When BD-R came around, I decided to stick with what I know is the best. I have used Verbatim BD-R since 09 and all are readable today. They even scan excellent in Opti Drive control. I have recently found some Smartblu ($1.49 per disc for printable) or $.79 for non-printable and they do seems to burn and scan just as good as the Verbatim. They are TDK MID and are made by FTI in U.A.E. Check them out here >>>http://www.mediamegamall.com/smartblu-bluray-disc-25gb-branded-25pk-cakebox-sbr4br25-p-28554.html

You can get user feedback here>> http://club.myce.com/f142/smartblu-media-322979/index5.html#post2620776

[jdobbs]

I thought I'd add that I've been using MERAX BD-25 discs from MERITLINE (DISC ID: OTCBDR-001-000) for quite some time with no issues -- but be warned, I got a spool of 25 recently that have been nothing but headaches... now I'm forced to go back through my backups to try and guess which are good and which are hosed. Unfortunately I also have another cakebox of them staring at me from my shelf. Ughh...

[DVDIT]

I thought I'd add that I've been using MERAX BD-25 discs from MERITLINE (DISC ID: OTCBDR-001-000) for quite some time with no issues -- but be warned, I got a spool of 25 recently that have been nothing but headaches... now I'm forced to go back through my backups to try and guess which are good and which are hosed. Ughh...

The problem is even if some are readable now, they may go bad in a year or two. Granted, there is no data regarding longevity of the Verbatim, but I feel confident they would last long, given their history. I cannot say the same about their LTH discs. The TDK MID discs made by FTI/Falcon, has released some documents showing the test done for these discs and they state that the discs are of archival quality (100 years). I am suspect about that too, but at least they have done some controlled environmental testing.

[BassPig]

I'm guessing it's a licensing issue, but I could be wrong.

The Verbatim are inexpensive enough now at $2/disc and work well. I've burned some at 8X and they play fine.

[jfcarbel]

Did a search and the only BD-Rs Taiyo Yuden produces seem to be these LTH ones that I have heard bad things about.

Still confused why a leading Japanese media company like them is not producing some high quality BD-R. Is this company now run by new leadership perhaps that cannot see the market for BD-R media? Perhaps a result of the JVC merge.

Rima has a good deal (http://www.rima.com/prod/97339.html) on Verbatim DataLifePlus Inkjet's for $2 disc in a 50 cake bundle for $99.
So I think I am going to give these a try

[jfcarbel]

I'm guessing it's a licensing issue, but I could be wrong.

The Verbatim are inexpensive enough now at $2/disc and work well. I've burned some at 8X and they play fine.

By licensing issue, what were you refering to? Was this regarding Taiyo Yuden's lack of BD-R media?

[DVDIT]

Did a search and the only BD-Rs Taiyo Yuden produces seem to be these LTH ones that I have heard bad things about.

Still confused why a leading Japanese media company like them is not producing some high quality BD-R. Is this company now run by new leadership perhaps that cannot see the market for BD-R media? Perhaps a result of the JVC merge.

Rima has a good deal (http://www.rima.com/prod/97339.html) on Verbatim DataLifePlus Inkjet's for $2 disc in a 50 cake bundle for $99.
So I think I am going to give these a try

I have read somewhere that TY has stopped making LTH BR-R disc. Maybe they are switching to HTL ?

[jfcarbel]

I thought I'd add that I've been using MERAX BD-25 discs from MERITLINE (DISC ID: OTCBDR-001-000) for quite some time with no issues -- but be warned, I got a spool of 25 recently that have been nothing but headaches... now I'm forced to go back through my backups to try and guess which are good and which are hosed. Unfortunately I also have another cakebox of them staring at me from my shelf. Ughh...

According to this article (http://blog.consumerpla.net/2011/01/blu-ray-media-brands-and-manufacturers.html), the Merax could be made by Philips or Optodisc. I bet the crappy ones you have a Optodisc ones.

[Rich86]

I thought I'd add that I've been using MERAX BD-25 discs from MERITLINE (DISC ID: OTCBDR-001-000) for quite some time with no issues -- but be warned, I got a spool of 25 recently that have been nothing but headaches... now I'm forced to go back through my backups to try and guess which are good and which are hosed. Unfortunately I also have another cakebox of them staring at me from my shelf. Ughh...

I am in the exact same situation - the first 25 spindle worked 100% perfectly (same internal code as jdobbs posted). The 2nd spindle fails 100% immediately. It won't even write the lead-in. I also have an unopened spindle on the shelf. Meritline just blew me off when I contacted them. :mad:

[jfcarbel]

I am in the exact same situation - the first 25 spindle worked 100% perfectly (same internal code as jdobbs posted). The 2nd spindle fails 100% immediately. It won't even write the lead-in. I also have an unopened spindle on the shelf. Meritline just blew me off when I contacted them. :mad:

That's why I always buy from Rima :)

I decided I am going to spend the extra $1 per disc an go with the Verbatim's.

I went back and play some of the RiData discs with no issues, but they are only about 4 months old will test again in another 4 months and report back.

[jdobbs]

I am in the exact same situation - the first 25 spindle worked 100% perfectly (same internal code as jdobbs posted). The 2nd spindle fails 100% immediately. It won't even write the lead-in. I also have an unopened spindle on the shelf. Meritline just blew me off when I contacted them. :mad: At least you knew it was an issue right away. On mine you don't see the problem until you're playing it back -- and it's a pixelation-fest.

[setarip_old]

I have had complete success with both 25Gb and 50Gb "Optical Quantum" brand (Phillips MID). Additionally, the 25Gb OPtical Quantums can be found at several places (Usually NewEgg, as well as others) for as little as 80cents US each - and the 50Gb at $4.00US...

[BassPig]

By licensing issue, what were you refering to? Was this regarding Taiyo Yuden's lack of BD-R media?

Yes, that's what I meant. BD has many unusual licensing requirements and I wouldn't be surprised if some of these extend to the disc manufacture as well. Maybe TY didn't want to bother with what they may feel were an onerous burden and decided not to manufacture. This is not an unusual scenario in other products. Could be the case, but I am speculating here.

[color43]

Just an FYI about "Optical Quantum" with ID "PHILIP-R02" or similar. These are not made by Phillips, but instead Moser Baer India.

See http://www.blu-raydisc.info/licensee-list/discmanuid-licenseelist.php

[setarip_old]

And Moser Baer appears to have come a long way (for the better) since the Verbatim D/L near debacle of several years ago...

[Ghitulescu]

MBI, despite not being up to the best, still provides a reasonable good quality. Nowadays I will buy their media if I would have the choice.

[DrinkLyeAndDie]

I have had complete success with both 25Gb and 50Gb "Optical Quantum" brand (Phillips MID). Additionally, the 25Gb OPtical Quantums can be found at several places (Usually NewEgg, as well as others) for as little as 80cents US each - and the 50Gb at $4.00US...

I have to concur with respect to Optical Quantum, now known as Vinpower Digital. Specifically, I am referring to the PHILIP-R04-000 25 GB BD-Rs and they've have been flawless in my use thus far with respect to burning, playback, and longevity [so far]. I've purchased them in 25 and 50 packs.

Anyone know who actually manufactures the 50 GB BD-DLs for Vinpower Digital?

[DVDean]

I thought I'd add that I've been using MERAX BD-25 discs from MERITLINE (DISC ID: OTCBDR-001-000) for quite some time with no issues -- but be warned, I got a spool of 25 recently that have been nothing but headaches... now I'm forced to go back through my backups to try and guess which are good and which are hosed. Unfortunately I also have another cakebox of them staring at me from my shelf. Ughh...

Yikes! I'm ashamed for merely donating money to your brilliant work on BD Rebuilder and not stopping by your forum. I could have saved you time and money wasted on media. Sorry. I also used the Optodiscs. They were barely usable for video playback, early on. Optodisc appears to have stepped up their production rates to levels higher than their machinery was designed to handle to meet demands and their disc quality is all over the map. Longevity is poor. One year old burns that were playable are no longer. The same with Optical quantum MBI PHILIP R04. R04's are very burner-dependent. Pioneer burners have had by far the best burn strategy for them, but disc quality also varies widely, as Vinpower/Optical Quantum is not shy about buying B and C grade discs from Ritek, MBI, and CMC. Please throw away the spindle you have on the shelf? I'll make a point of clicking that "donate" button again to help you replace them :).

The SmartBlu BD-R's(use the printables myself) linked by DVDIT are in the nose bleed high-end realm really only shared with Panasonic currently. Japanese materials/manufacturing technology. 50+ years accelerated aging longevity test results. And minimum quality of discs leaving the factory certified to meet or exceed the Blu-ray disc association's book spec for burn quality/compatibility and playback quality/compatibility. Please don't gamble on anything else that might have you wasting precious time re-burning that could have been spent perfecting one of my favorite softwares? :)

[jdobbs]

Yikes! I'm ashamed for merely donating money to your brilliant work on BD Rebuilder and not stopping by your forum. I could have saved you time and money wasted on media. Sorry. I also used the Optodiscs. They were barely usable for video playback, early on. Optodisc appears to have stepped up their production rates to levels higher than their machinery was designed to handle to meet demands and their disc quality is all over the map. Longevity is poor. One year old burns that were playable are no longer. The same with Optical quantum MBI PHILIP R04. R04's are very burner-dependent. Pioneer burners have had by far the best burn strategy for them, but disc quality also varies widely, as Vinpower/Optical Quantum is not shy about buying B and C grade discs from Ritek, MBI, and CMC. Please throw away the spindle you have on the shelf? I'll make a point of clicking that "donate" button again to help you replace them :).

The SmartBlu BD-R's(use the printables myself) linked by DVDIT are in the nose bleed high-end realm really only shared with Panasonic currently. Japanese materials/manufacturing technology. 50+ years accelerated aging longevity test results. And minimum quality of discs leaving the factory certified to meet or exceed the Blu-ray disc association's book spec for burn quality/compatibility and playback quality/compatibility. Please don't gamble on anything else that might have you wasting precious time re-burning that could have been spent perfecting one of my favorite softwares? :) Well, I got lucky on the final spool. It appears these discs are at least burning ok. But once bitten, twice shy -- so I'm running ImgBurn's verify against all written discs from here on out.

On the other hand -- maybe I'll just toss them and write it off as a lesson-learned.

I'll do some googling and see how prices are on the SmartBlu discs... if they're reasonable I'll give them a whirl.

[Edit] Wow. 85 cents each at the first site I hit (for the branded version)... I'm sold -- if I can find a good deal on some inkjet printables I'll order some today.

[RobertM]

I used to worry about the media that I was using. I tried several brands and I validated every disc after burning. I would find occasional failures, so I could never let down my guard, for fear of missing a bad burn.

Then I switched to Verbatim. I hesitated initially because I didn't want to pay the premium price, but I won't go back to another brand now. They have been absolutely flawless in my experience, which is quite a contrast to the multitude of brands that I tried before.

YMMV, but I'm absolutely sold on Verbatim.

[DVDIT]

Well, I got lucky on the final spool. It appears these discs are at least burning ok. But once bitten, twice shy -- so I'm running ImgBurn's verify against all written discs from here on out.

On the other hand -- maybe I'll just toss them and write it off as a lesson-learned.

I'll do some googling and see how prices are on the SmartBlu discs... if they're reasonable I'll give them a whirl.

[Edit] Wow. 85 cents each at the first site I hit (for the branded version)... I'm sold -- if I can find a good deal on some inkjet printables I'll order some today.

The only place to get the Smartblu is here >>> Check http://www.mediamegamall.com/blank-media-bluray-blank-media-c-29_139.html?sort=5a&filter_id=260

MID is TDKBLD-RBB-000 and they burn pretty nice @4x with LG and 8x with Lite-on and Pioneer. The disc quality scan using Opti Drive control or Nero disc speed is pretty amazing for the price. What is your burner?

[RobertM]

The only place to get the Smartblu is here

A statement like this would be a red flag for me. They may be great, but then I would expect to be able to buy them from well known retailers.

[DVDIT]

@RobertM,

I am not pushing anyone to buy these discs. I am just merely indicating where I was able to buy them from.


@jdobbs,

I believe you are located in Maryland. If so, PM me your address and I will send you a few if you want to test drive them.

[DVDean]

YMMV, but I'm absolutely sold on Verbatim.
I've had nothing but good playback results with them too. I am becoming hesitant to recommend them after seeing someone in another forum reporting that 37% of their Verbs burned 2 years ago are showing playback problems or failures. Verb never released accelerated aging test results for their BD-R's, but a German magazine recently published the results of several independent professional media companies who did not score them very high for longevity. TDK(FTI/SmartBlu), Panasonic, and Sony were ranked as best.
Well, I got lucky on the final spool. It appears these discs are at least burning ok. But once bitten, twice shy -- so I'm running ImgBurn's verify against all written discs from here on out.

On the other hand -- maybe I'll just toss them and write it off as a lesson-learned.


Please try a few in your standalone player before you consider keeping them? A marginal quality burn will verify with ImgBurn but be a freezin' pixelated mess in a more finicky SAP due to high error levels. A read speed test with DiscSpeed or Opti drive control may be more revealing as to the burn quality vs verification. Or even just ripping it back to iso w/ ImgBurn and looking at the read graph produced.

It is a crazy low price for one of the best BD-R's being manufactured. Pretty rare to get excellent on the cheap. Interesting story as to how this is possible. This really is one of those have your cake and eat it too opportunities. Didn't mention, I've burned 100's of them in Pioneer, LG, and Lite-on burners at every speed available. No coasters. Smooth playback. As bullet-proof as it gets.

[DVDean]

A statement like this would be a red flag for me. They may be great, but then I would expect to be able to buy them from well known retailers.

FTI does not care to sell their media retail. They have no interest in trying to appeal to the consumer market. These are made by FTI. They manufacture professional level media that are primarily sold at duplication suppliers like MMM at the B2B level or direct to corporations (Verbatim is one of them). Margins at the optical media retail level are terrible, this is what drives other manufacturers to outsource and cheapen their media to stay profitable. You've heard of Verbatim's change to "Life Series" lower quality DVD-R's? Your reasoning is not going to help you find good media :). That road leads to outsourced B and C grade media territory.

[RobertM]

I've had nothing but good playback results with them too. I am becoming hesitant to recommend them after seeing someone in another forum reporting that 37% of their Verbs burned 2 years ago are showing playback problems or failures.

Well, I'll be well and truly PO'd if my discs start failing after a couple of years of storage in a cool, dark place. Those 37% reported failures could be a result of poor initial burns on the users h/w (even though they verified OK on that same h/w), or deficiencies in their current h/w, or something else. I would put little stock in one person's bad experience, the same way that nobody should take my good experience alone as a reason to go with Verbs.

As I said, Verbs are the only ones that have been flawless for me through the write/verify/playback process, so that gives them lots of credibility in my book. If the other brands couldn't even prove to be reliable at that stage, why would I believe that they would be any better at long term aging. I don't have multi-year old BD-R Verbs to test, only year-old ones, so I can't make any comments about their longer-term playback. But I do have years-old DVD-R Verbs, and I've never seen a playback problem with one yet.

That being said, I'm perfectly willing to believe that there may be better discs out there. I just haven't found any yet.

[DVDIT]

As I said, Verbs are the only ones that have been flawless for me through the write/verify/playback process, so that gives them lots of credibility in my book. If the other brands couldn't even prove to be reliable at that stage, why would I believe that they would be any better at long term aging. I don't have multi-year old BD-R Verbs to test, only year-old ones, so I can't make any comments about their longer-term playback. But I do have years-old DVD-R Verbs, and I've never seen a playback problem with one yet.

That being said, I'm perfectly willing to believe that there may be better discs out there. I just haven't found any yet.

I can vouch for Verbatim as well. I have many backups I did 2.5 years ago and I tested some of them at random last month and they all scan, read and play fine. I also have many Verbatim DVD+R and DVD+R DL backups that are more than 9 years old, they are still 100% perfect. How long the BD-R last is anybody's guess at this point. Since I have a very positive initial experience with Smartblu and are only $.79 each, $1 less than what Verbs cost me now, I have started using them along with some stock of verbs I have.

[DVDean]

Up till a week ago, I had little doubt that Verb's BD-R's were among the best all-around. They've worked well for me. You're right of course about the questionable significance of one person's longevity results. It was only because I ran across the magazine article about the same time that I was forced to go hmmm. Won't try to discourage anyone from buying Verbs amidst all the bad choices out there. Just got me wondering.

In fact, Verbatim 6x labeled BD-R's are on sale at newegg-- $26.99 for 25 of the HTL's.

[DVDean]

Anyone know who actually manufactures the 50 GB BD-DLs for Vinpower Digital?

This week they are made by CMC Magnetics in Taiwan or China. MID is CMCMAG D16. Not compatible with some older 8x and earlier burners.

Optical Quantum sellers rarely offer this information for the media because Vinpower buys from whichever manufacturer gives them the lowest price and can change at any time. Sellers do not want complaints from customers who expected to get a particular BD-R.

[Ghitulescu]

I used to worry about the media that I was using. I tried several brands and I validated every disc after burning. I would find occasional failures, so I could never let down my guard, for fear of missing a bad burn.

Then I switched to Verbatim. I hesitated initially because I didn't want to pay the premium price, but I won't go back to another brand now. They have been absolutely flawless in my experience, which is quite a contrast to the multitude of brands that I tried before.

YMMV, but I'm absolutely sold on Verbatim.

If you're talking about DVDRs, then you should know that it's impossible to get Verbatims made by MKM, as they outsourced al their production, in order to get fast into the BD boat. You'd be lucky if you can buy a Verbatim made by MBI (which also manufactures for Sony and Panasonic and a miriad other "Premium" relebellers).

If you're talking about BDRs, then it's too soon to draw any conclusions, besides, the "technology" evolves and 2x BDRs are not the same as the 6x ones, nor the drives.

PS: it appears that Mitsubishi had recently a lot of issues, on all their fields.

[DVDIT]

PS: it appears that Mitsubishi had recently a lot of issues, on all their fields.

The reason I started looking at other brands was the 6x Verbatim I bought, even though they burn OK and play fine, the disc quality scan was poor with a very high LDC and BIS values. In my experience most discs that with high LDC and BIS values are prone to fail later. I have used nothing but Verbatim in the past, but now I will not be buying more once I exhaust the ones that I have. When and if the quality returns, I will start buying them again.

[jdobbs]

The only place to get the Smartblu is here >>> Check http://www.mediamegamall.com/blank-media-bluray-blank-media-c-29_139.html?sort=5a&filter_id=260

MID is TDKBLD-RBB-000 and they burn pretty nice @4x with LG and 8x with Lite-on and Pioneer. The disc quality scan using Opti Drive control or Nero disc speed is pretty amazing for the price. What is your burner?

My burner is an LG BH10LS30.

[DVDIT]

My burner is an LG BH10LS30.

You are in luck there. The Smartblu burn best with LG BH10LS30, LG WH12LS30. The disc quality scan is almost as good as pressed commercial BR-R if you burn them @4x. They still burn better than Verbatim @6 and 8X. If you want speed and quality burn them @ 8x. If you want the best quality possible best them @4x.

[DVDIT]

In fact, Verbatim 6x labeled BD-R's are on sale at newegg-- $26.99 for 25 of the HTL's.

That is a great price for Verbatim. If only they were model #96769.

[jdobbs]

You are in luck there. The Smartblu burn best with LG BH10LS30, LG WH12LS30. The disc quality scan is almost as good as pressed commercial BR-R if you burn them @4x. They still burn better than Verbatim @6 and 8X. If you want speed and quality burn them @ 8x. If you want the best quality possible best them @4x. What software are you using when scanning disc quality? Opti Drive Control, I assume?

[Ghitulescu]

I've had nothing but good playback results with them too. I am becoming hesitant to recommend them after seeing someone in another forum reporting that 37% of their Verbs burned 2 years ago are showing playback problems or failures. Verb never released accelerated aging test results for their BD-R's, but a German magazine recently published the results of several independent professional media companies who did not score them very high for longevity. TDK(FTI/SmartBlu), Panasonic, and Sony were ranked as best.Which magazine, please?
Please try a few in your standalone player before you consider keeping them? A marginal quality burn will verify with ImgBurn but be a freezin' pixelated mess in a more finicky SAP due to high error levels. A read speed test with DiscSpeed or Opti drive control may be more revealing as to the burn quality vs verification. Or even just ripping it back to iso w/ ImgBurn and looking at the read graph produced.

It is a crazy low price for one of the best BD-R's being manufactured. Pretty rare to get excellent on the cheap. Interesting story as to how this is possible. This really is one of those have your cake and eat it too opportunities. Didn't mention, I've burned 100's of them in Pioneer, LG, and Lite-on burners at every speed available. No coasters. Smooth playback. As bullet-proof as it gets.
I hope you're in your earlier thirties so you can double check the 50 years claims of Panasonic. BTW, this was written on 2x media only.

[DVDIT]

What software are you using when scanning disc quality? Opti Drive Control, I assume?

Yes, I use both Opti Drive control and Nero Disc Speed. Nero Disc Speed with Lite-on drive on computer A and Opti Drive with Samsung BD drive on computer B.

[DVDIT]

Which magazine, please?

I hope you're in your earlier thirties so you can double check the 50 years claims of Panasonic. BTW, this was written on 2x media only.

There is no guarantee on any BD-R media as far as longevity is concerned. User reviews and personal experience is all we have to make some decision.

[DVDean]

Which magazine, please?

I hope you're in your earlier thirties so you can double check the 50 years claims of Panasonic. BTW, this was written on 2x media only.

That article would be here (http://dr-gerald-albach.suite101.de/blu-ray-disc-r-rohlinge-test-25-gb-bd-rs-bei-stiftung-warentest-a84329).
Actually, TUV Rheinland claims to have tested all of Panasonics's BD-R's, all passing the longevity tests (http://www.tuvdotcom.com/quality_marks/0000000050?locale=en). I have been in this long enough to know better than to trust the accuracy of any one source.

No, I'm not in my 30's. I do not expect my media to need to last more than 30 years or so :).

The best we can do is research everything we can get our hands on in professional testing, professional distribution results, personal testing, consumer results, manufacturer info, and material/manufacturing science. You might be surprised how much you can learn by going straight to the top and having dialogues with factory/manufacturer/brand personnel. If you have some knowledge of the industry to begin with, they can be quite willing to talk shop with you :) .

I've burned and used a multitude of BD-R media to get a sense of what can be trusted for playback. I do a bit of media production/distribution as a sideline and hobby, and VERY concerned about giving folks 100% usable product. And having fun with the Blu-ray adventure :). I assume that we're all on the same page on this in this thread. At the end of the day its all about PLAYBACK...PLAYBACK...PLAYBACK :). The info I've amassed on the longevity prospects of the FTI BD-R's gives me reasonable confidence that they'll be good for a decent bit. The playback has been faultless burned at any speed in any burner. Incidentally, TDK has turned over production of their original made in Japan professional BD-R's to FTI. They are much more pricey in the TDK wrapper. FTI also added a little tweak (http://www.falcon-media.net/pdf/white_papers/Label%20Side%20Sputtering%20of%20BD-R(E)%20Discs_Low%20res.pdf) to the original excellent TDK design to boost reliability.

Just doin the best I can to find the best bang for my buck without any compromise on performance. These (http://www.mediamegamall.com/smartblu-m-260.html?osCsid=6f3c1551fadec1bcd852b81bac92a0ae) work.

[Ghitulescu]

Thank you for the link. I have the article.
About the insiders, yes, I know, one can get a lot of useful info from them, sometimes under the cover of full anonimate.

[Rich86]

Just for the heck of it, I dug out the very first BD-R I ever burned - from over a year ago - it was Merax brand - I did not play it entirely, but did load it up, run it for a bit, skip to every chapter & let it play a bit, scan through most of the final chapter, and then let it play the last part of the final chapter to conclusion. It seems fine. Whew.
Tomorrow maybe I'll test my oldest burned Ritek.

[jdobbs]

Interesting... I did the same thing the other day. There seems to be no issues on mine either.

[Capsbackup]

I was not so fortunate with some of my oldest Ritek discs. :( These were Memorex branded Ritek-BR2-00, and were a royal blue color. I had 9 bad discs that would no longer even load. :mad:
The newer Memorex branded Ritek discs, blueish/gray in color, are, so far ok still. :rolleyes:
But time will tell of course, as these are not as old as the first batch I bought and burned. ( about 2-3 years )

[Video Dude]

What would be the main cause of degradation of HTL discs? I would have thought they would have lasted longer since they use an inorganic recording layer.

[JJB]

I was not so fortunate with some of my oldest Ritek discs. :( These were Memorex branded Ritek-BR2-00, and were a royal blue color. I had 9 bad discs that would no longer even load. :mad:
The newer Memorex branded Ritek discs, blueish/gray in color, are, so far ok still. :rolleyes:
But time will tell of course, as these are not as old as the first batch I bought and burned. ( about 2-3 years )

The exact same thing happened to my 25 box of Memorex royal blue color. About half will not load and Imgburn won' even recognize them.

Just received a batch of SmartBlu with the TDK MID.
Good price and hoping for the best.

[DVDIT]

The exact same thing happened to my 25 box of Memorex royal blue color. About half will not load and Imgburn won' even recognize them.

Just received a batch of SmartBlu with the TDK MID.
Good price and hoping for the best.

While I can't vouch for the longevity of those Smartblu discs, I can say that they burn slightly better than Verbatim BD-R. Since these are made by Falcon/FTI and have TDK MID, I feel confident that longevity will be quite good as well. I have about 10 TDK backups I did 2.5 years ago, and all read, scan and play fine today as are all my Verbatim backups. I don't see why this would be any different as the discs are made under the same specification as TDKs and have TDK MID. I avoid anything made by Ritek. I learned my lesson well years ago with many, many DVD backups that went bad after a few months. For best result, burn the Smartblus @ 4x with LG and 6-8X with Lite-on and Pioneer burners.

[DVDean]

The exact same thing happened to my 25 box of Memorex royal blue color. About half will not load and Imgburn won' even recognize them.

Just received a batch of SmartBlu with the TDK MID.
Good price and hoping for the best.

Good to hear:). I truly would not be recommending these merely on my own research. I know at least a few people who have also burned 100's of them, and find them to be the best burning most consistent 25GB BD-R's currently available. I honestly don't know if its just that the TDK BD-R design is so solid or the fact that drive manufacturers have had a long time to perfect their burn strategies for them, but no matter what drive or what speed I use I can't coaster one or end up with anything less than smooth as silk playback/FF/RW and chapter access.

I have a really finicky LG standalone that I use for final quality testing. FTI/TDK's just work. Every time. Can't say the same for Merax, Sony, Optical Quantum, Ritek, et al.
And a bonus, TDK/FTI's super-duper scratch resistant claims are for real. Being the curious creature that I am, I've put this to the test. I've been abusing and being careless with a couple videos I watch regularly to test it out. Leave them lying around out of the case, wipe off fingerprints with my shirttail or on my pants. After a year of this, not even a hint of a fine scratch to be found. These are excellent for anyone backing up their kids videos. 100% kid-proof at my sister's house so far :).

Have a look at this (http://www.taperesources.com/docs/falcon-ritek-bluray-performance-report.pdf) to see why you can expect the Smartblu's to play better/last longer than Ritek's.
We're talking 10 to 100 times lower error rates with FTI's across a wide range of burners. Talk about a safe bet :).

Anyone looking to escape the $4.95 minimum order charge, their blu-ray cases are slightly nicer quality than similar-priced cases at Supermediastore and elsewhere. Silver licensed Blu-ray logo on the front. Just a thought.

[DVDean]

Just for the heck of it, I dug out the very first BD-R I ever burned - from over a year ago - it was Merax brand - I did not play it entirely, but did load it up, run it for a bit, skip to every chapter & let it play a bit, scan through most of the final chapter, and then let it play the last part of the final chapter to conclusion. It seems fine. Whew.
Tomorrow maybe I'll test my oldest burned Ritek.Thank goodness for that. Back at that point Optodisc's quality was just starting to slide downhill, and you could find a decent spindle here and there. A friend in another forum tested his from that time period and found an alarming number of discs that failed or were just barely able to be ripped back to hard drive. Fortunately, I reburned and tossed my own after a couple showed signs of failing or failed. Looking around to see if I missed any. You may wish to take the time to do a read test with your computer BD drive on the one that still plays as a baseline and test your others against that. Serious drops in read speed are the result of rising error levels and signal the impending death of the disc. I tried that random playback test early on, ended up having more than a few discs teach me that isn't enough. On full playback, error rate had risen to freeze-up or pixelation levels at just one or two 5-10 second points on the disc, didn't show up with a fast forward scan.

What would be the main cause of degradation of HTL discs? I would have thought they would have lasted longer since they use an inorganic recording layer.I thought so, too. Disc longevity is primarily a result of initial burn quality, materials/manufacturing quality, and storage conditions. Too many manufacturers are cutting materials quality, using cheaper manufacturing lines, and running their production lines faster than they were designed. Poor quality polycarbonate and bonding offer little protection for the recording layer. Add lower precision from production line cost-saving measures and you end up with BD-R's that produce poor to marginal initial burn quality/high error rates with very little to protect them from degrading to unusable.

It really is worthwhile to run a read speed test on your oldest burns occasionally to catch them before they die.

[vze2mp9g]

Good to hear:). I truly would not be recommending these merely on my own research. I know at least a few people who have also burned 100's of them, and find them to be the best burning most consistent 25GB BD-R's currently available. I honestly don't know if its just that the TDK BD-R design is so solid or the fact that drive manufacturers have had a long time to perfect their burn strategies for them, but no matter what drive or what speed I use I can't coaster one or end up with anything less than smooth as silk playback/FF/RW and chapter access.

I have a really finicky LG standalone that I use for final quality testing. FTI/TDK's just work. Every time. Can't say the same for Merax, Sony, Optical Quantum, Ritek, et al.
And a bonus, TDK/FTI's super-duper scratch resistant claims are for real. Being the curious creature that I am, I've put this to the test. I've been abusing and being careless with a couple videos I watch regularly to test it out. Leave them lying around out of the case, wipe off fingerprints with my shirttail or on my pants. After a year of this, not even a hint of a fine scratch to be found. These are excellent for anyone backing up their kids videos. 100% kid-proof at my sister's house so far :).

Have a look at this (http://www.taperesources.com/docs/falcon-ritek-bluray-performance-report.pdf) to see why you can expect the Smartblu's to play better/last longer than Ritek's.
We're talking 10 to 100 times lower error rates with FTI's across a wide range of burners. Talk about a safe bet :).

Anyone looking to escape the $4.95 minimum order charge, their blu-ray cases are slightly nicer quality than similar-priced cases at Supermediastore and elsewhere. Silver licensed Blu-ray logo on the front. Just a thought.

Okay, which brand would you recomment and where can I get the best price?
Thank You.

[DVDean]

Okay, which brand would you recomment and where can I get the best price?
Thank You.

Sorry for not making it easier with a link. I simply do not want anyone mistaking my enthusiasm for these discs for anything other than sharing the goodness :). Here (http://www.mediamegamall.com/smartblu-m-260.html?osCsid=5186a2149609c5a9877eb54bd32bef25) is the duplication supplier where you can find the lowest price. They are also available elsewhere, but only in reseller quantities(600+). All the 4x 25GB SmartBlu discs listed are the same disc I was speaking of.
They also have a ridiculously low price on Falcon 25GB BD-RE's. Recording quality is excellent on those too. I will never use up the 25 spindle that I bought, but couldn't resist the price.

[wedge]

A computer shop in Vancouver had a sale on verbatim bd-r 25 4x early last year.They came in 10 pack boxes.I bought 300 of them.(30 boxes).I have since purchased about another 10 of these boxes in the last year.
Well I was asked to do some duplicates of these discs in the last 2 weeks.I haven't checked them since my original burning of these discs.
Well you can imagine my surprise when virtually ALL of these discs are Defective.The only ones that so far seem not to be,are the ones burned within the last 3 months.
I use 1 LG and a couple Pioneer burners,all at 2x speed burning.
Needless to say I am VERY Pi**ed.I purchased verbatim's under the assurances that they were the best discs available,and no, even on sale they were not cheap.

So what do you chaps figure are the best out there..Sorry haven't read all 25 pages of this section yet,maybe I will tomorrow.

(PS)Just noticed that as of next month,I'll have been a member of Doom9 for 10 years..Man how time flies.:)

[DVDIT]

A computer shop in Vancouver had a sale on verbatim bd-r 25 4x early last year.They came in 10 pack boxes.I bought 300 of them.(30 boxes).I have since purchased about another 10 of these boxes in the last year.
Well I was asked to do some duplicates of these discs in the last 2 weeks.I haven't checked them since my original burning of these discs.
Well you can imagine my surprise when virtually ALL of these discs are Defective.The only ones that so far seem not to be,are the ones burned within the last 3 months.
I use 1 LG and a couple Pioneer burners,all at 2x speed burning.
Needless to say I am VERY Pi**ed.I purchased verbatim's under the assurances that they were the best discs available,and no, even on sale they were not cheap.

So what do you chaps figure are the best out there..Sorry haven't read all 25 pages of this section yet,maybe I will tomorrow.

(PS)Just noticed that as of next month,I'll have been a member of Doom9 for 10 years..Man how time flies.:)

What is the model number ? If it is Verbatim 96769, that are the best I ever had. Try burning them @ 4x. If they are LTH discs, then we are not surprised.

[DVDean]

Well I was asked to do some duplicates of these discs in the last 2 weeks.I haven't checked them since my original burning of these discs.
Well you can imagine my surprise when virtually ALL of these discs are Defective.The only ones that so far seem not to be,are the ones burned within the last 3 months.
I use 1 LG and a couple Pioneer burners,all at 2x speed burning.
Needless to say I am VERY Pi**ed.I purchased verbatim's under the assurances that they were the best discs available,and no, even on sale they were not cheap.



(PS)Just noticed that as of next month,I'll have been a member of Doom9 for 10 years..Man how time flies.:)
Did you have a chance to test these discs when they were first burned? Is it possible there was a problem at the start? How are they defective? What are the prices on good quality BD-R's you might be considering?


Congratulations on your upcoming anniversary :).

[Rich86]

Just for the heck of it, I dug out the very first BD-R I ever burned - from over a year ago - it was Merax brand - I did not play it entirely, but did load it up, run it for a bit, skip to every chapter & let it play a bit, scan through most of the final chapter, and then let it play the last part of the final chapter to conclusion. It seems fine. Whew.
Tomorrow maybe I'll test my oldest burned Ritek.

Well, it took a fair amount of complaining and badgering, but Meritline has issued me a RMA # to return the defective Merax (OTCBDR-001-000 internal code) media spindle (this is the media that won't even write the lead-in using imgburn). They agreed to issue me a store credit to use. That is fine by me. The defective media is on the way to them.

Update: and now Inland has agreed to replace the 3rd unopened spindle if I find them to be defective also since we are still within their 1 year warranty period. These are the same media (internal code = OTCBDR-001-000) only Fry's sold them under the Inland brand name.

[Rich86]

I burn BD-Rs with a Lite-On iHBS112 2 blu-ray burner. It has firmware CL0K. I also have the Lite-On utilities module installed.
When I decide to give the last spindle of OTCBDR media a workout, what settings would folks suggest.
I burn using imgburn. I keep Smartburn On - and OPC On - Overspeed Writing Off. How about Hyper Tuning - Forced? Online? Both? Neither?
I have no earthly idea if the firmware for this drive knows anything at all about this media beyond what it figures out on its own on the fly while burning.
It seems obvious to me that the media is inconsistent (although the manufacturer denies that, of course), so some on the fly analysis and adjustment might be good?
Any ideas or experience is appreciated before I start playing and making $ coasters . . .

[JJB]

I burn BD-Rs with a Lite-On iHBS112 2 blu-ray burner. It has firmware CL0K. I also have the Lite-On utilities module installed.
When I decide to give the last spindle of OTCBDR media a workout, what settings would folks suggest.
I keep Smartburn On - and OPC On - Overspeed Writing Off. How about Hyper Tuning - Forced? Online? Both? Neither?
I have no earthly idea if the firmware for this drive knows anything at all about this media beyond what it figures out on its own on the fly while burning.
It seems obvious to me that the media is inconsistent (although the manufacturer denies that, of course), so some on the fly analysis and adjustment might be good?
Any ideas or experience is appreciated before I start playing and making $ coasters . . .


Whats wrong with Imgburn?:confused:

[Rich86]

Whats wrong with Imgburn?:confused:

Nothing - that is what I use but neglected to mention that - now fixed.

[DVDean]

I burn BD-Rs with a Lite-On iHBS112 2 blu-ray burner. It has firmware CL0K. I also have the Lite-On utilities module installed.
When I decide to give the last spindle of OTCBDR media a workout, what settings would folks suggest.
I burn using imgburn. I keep Smartburn On - and OPC On - Overspeed Writing Off. How about Hyper Tuning - Forced? Online? Both? Neither?
I have no earthly idea if the firmware for this drive knows anything at all about this media beyond what it figures out on its own on the fly while burning.
It seems obvious to me that the media is inconsistent (although the manufacturer denies that, of course), so some on the fly analysis and adjustment might be good?
Any ideas or experience is appreciated before I start playing and making $ coasters . . .

You are a brave man, sir. That challenge drove me to near madness :). You can try unchecking "BD-R verify not required" on the "write" tab in ImgBurn's settings for a little help. This will enable the drive's full on-the-fly burn quality checking/adjustment. When burning high quality media, this is unnecessary and should be checked. Clear the OPC. Turn off OPC. A bad disc's optimum laser power requirements will often vary quite widely across the disc, and leaving the drives OP at default is usually better. By all means enable online hypertuning and force hypertuning. And if it burns successfully, consider it a victory and celebrate by returning them and buying something else.
At the very least, run a read speed test on the burn and watch for any read slowdowns before you consider it a good burn.

[Rich86]

You are a brave man, sir. That challenge drove me to near madness :). You can try unchecking "BD-R verify not required" on the "write" tab in ImgBurn's settings for a little help. This will enable the drive's full on-the-fly burn quality checking/adjustment. When burning high quality media, this is unnecessary and should be checked. Clear the OPC. Turn off OPC. A bad disc's optimum laser power requirements will often vary quite widely across the disc, and leaving the drives OP at default is usually better. By all means enable online hypertuning and force hypertuning. And if it burns successfully, consider it a victory and celebrate by returning them and buying something else.
At the very least, run a read speed test on the burn and watch for any read slowdowns before you consider it a good burn.

The first spindle was reasonably priced - and worked fine. Both the 2nd and 3rd spindles were very inexpensive due to coupons/rebates, which is why I bought them since the 1st spindle was working so well. In hindsight, it sure seems like Optodisc and their brand name marketing partners (Merax & Inland, in my case) were simply unloading problematic product. I guess that's what got me annoyed and determined to hold them accountable in at least a small way.
I will open and try to use this 3rd spindle and see what we've got - something good like the 1st spindle - or trash like the 2nd. Then I can decide who to pester for a refund or replacement - Fry's, Inland (who has already agreed to honor their 1 year warranty) or Optodisc.

[DVDean]

The first spindle was reasonably priced - and worked fine. Both the 2nd and 3rd spindles were very inexpensive due to coupons/rebates, which is why I bought them since the 1st spindle was working so well. In hindsight, it sure seems like Optodisc and their brand name marketing partners (Merax & Inland, in my case) were simply unloading problematic product. I guess that's what got me annoyed and determined to hold them accountable in at least a small way.
I will open and try to use this 3rd spindle and see what we've got - something good like the 1st spindle - or trash like the 2nd. Then I can decide who to pester for a refund or replacement - Fry's, Inland (who has already agreed to honor their 1 year warranty) or Optodisc.

The reasonable price was certainly what led me to give them a try. And my first couple spindles, though reporting higher error rate averages than I was accustomed to, were usable for SAP video playback. Seemed I might have a decent inexpensive media for non-mission-critical use. Then I ran into a spindle where the error levels had increased significantly, and the playback problems began. It was a valuable learning experience, as it gave me a better sense of how high the error rates can be on a BD-R before overcoming a set-top player's error correction ability.

Manufacturers/brands/resellers know very well that they can count on a substantial number of sales at the consumer retail level based on low price. And many consumers will come back for more before spending a little more per disc in spite of running into some coasters. Our free enterprise system has some drawbacks. The responsibility for ending up with quality products lies entirely with us. Unfortunate that sellers can count on very few people taking the time and effort to hold them to a higher standard.

Be careful out there :)

I wish you the best of luck with those. There is no sure-fire combinations of Lite-on settings that works best with every spindle unfortunately.

[ni9ht_5ta1k3r]

here in Australia i can find a place that sells a 5-pack for $14 AUD or $2.80 AUD per disc....that's the cheapest i have seen so far. many other places are asking $5-6 AUD per disc while major chains have been asking $15 AUD per disc.

[vze2mp9g]

Sorry for not making it easier with a link. I simply do not want anyone mistaking my enthusiasm for these discs for anything other than sharing the goodness :). Here (http://www.mediamegamall.com/smartblu-m-260.html?osCsid=5186a2149609c5a9877eb54bd32bef25) is the duplication supplier where you can find the lowest price. They are also available elsewhere, but only in reseller quantities(600+). All the 4x 25GB SmartBlu discs listed are the same disc I was speaking of.
They also have a ridiculously low price on Falcon 25GB BD-RE's. Recording quality is excellent on those too. I will never use up the 25 spindle that I bought, but couldn't resist the price.

Thank you for the Link, I just purchased Falcon 25Gbs. You've been very helpful. :D

[DVDean]

Thank you for the Link, I just purchased Falcon 25Gbs. You've been very helpful. :D

You're quite welcome. You could also buy the same BD-RE with a TDK label on it for well over $3.00 each :). Quite a bargain at $1.49ea./shipped. I'm sure many people don't know that you can still get Made in Japan TDK BD-R/BD-RE quite easily. You just need to know that their new address is in the UAE, and they come in spindles made by FTI/Falcon ;). And Smartblu 25GB are FTI's.

[Cloudane]

Trying to work out the consensus here :)

I get my media from scan.co.uk

The last lot I got were these "AONE" branded ones: http://www.scan.co.uk/products/10pcs-cakebox-aone-blu-ray-bdr-ff-10c-25gb-full-face-printable
They identify as Philips R04 (HTL) in DVD Identifier

They burned fine and read fine at the time (burned at 4x using a BDR-205), but 6 months later they're unreadable - if I tilt them in bright light, I can see a sort of "decay" of the recording layer (odd since I thought HTL wasn't organic), in the sort of pattern that liquid would make if it were spilled on it.

So avoid those for anything long term.

Reading all the way through the thread, Ritek and Verbatim seem to get mentioned a lot but on both sides of the story. Thing is the Verbatims are expensive and they're LTH which people seem to think best avoided.

These are the Traxdata branded Riteks I'm looking at (RITE801)
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/10pcs-cake-box-ritek-(traxdata)-rite801-25gb-bd-r-4x-blu-ray-single-sided-printable-130min

Wondering if they're any good... failing that I might just have to give up on Blu-Ray as I don't like spending £1 a pop only to find they're unusable 6 months later. Not sure I want to be gambling close to £2 a go on Verbatims either.

[RobertM]

Thing is the Verbatims are expensive and they're LTH which people seem to think best avoided.


Verbatim makes both HTL and LTH. Generally you can assume that they are HTL unless the description specifically states LTH.

[Cloudane]

Ah right, yeah, I looked up the model number of the ones at Scan (which are twice the price of the Riteks) and they appear to be LTH

[DVDean]

Trying to work out the consensus here :)

I get my media from scan.co.uk

The last lot I got were these "AONE" branded ones: http://www.scan.co.uk/products/10pcs-cakebox-aone-blu-ray-bdr-ff-10c-25gb-full-face-printable
They identify as Philips R04 (HTL) in DVD Identifier

They burned fine and read fine at the time (burned at 4x using a BDR-205), but 6 months later they're unreadable - if I tilt them in bright light, I can see a sort of "decay" of the recording layer (odd since I thought HTL wasn't organic), in the sort of pattern that liquid would make if it were spilled on it.

So avoid those for anything long term.

Reading all the way through the thread, Ritek and Verbatim seem to get mentioned a lot but on both sides of the story. Thing is the Verbatims are expensive and they're LTH which people seem to think best avoided.

These are the Traxdata branded Riteks I'm looking at (RITE801)
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/10pcs-cake-box-ritek-(traxdata)-rite801-25gb-bd-r-4x-blu-ray-single-sided-printable-130min

Wondering if they're any good... failing that I might just have to give up on Blu-Ray as I don't like spending £1 a pop only to find they're unusable 6 months later. Not sure I want to be gambling close to £2 a go on Verbatims either.

I've been discussing better affordable Ritek and MBI PhilipR04 options with friends in Europe. Yes, I have heard that those Aone's are junk. These (http://www.aprmedia.com/product.php?pid=7778) are one of the better options. They are also available here (http://shop.cd-writer.com/catalog/falcon-bdr-4x-consumer-inkjet-25-pack-p-242879.html?manufacturers_id=1743) even cheaper, though they sold out a few days ago, don't know when they will be back in stock. I know of people who have found both versions of the Riteks to fail much too quickly. I think I would stay away from those. Philips branded INFOMER30 BD-R's in Europe are looking encouraging, but have not been around long enough to have much long term life feedback.

[Rich86]

The first spindle was reasonably priced - and worked fine. Both the 2nd and 3rd spindles were very inexpensive due to coupons/rebates, which is why I bought them since the 1st spindle was working so well. In hindsight, it sure seems like Optodisc and their brand name marketing partners (Merax & Inland, in my case) were simply unloading problematic product. I guess that's what got me annoyed and determined to hold them accountable in at least a small way.
I will open and try to use this 3rd spindle and see what we've got - something good like the 1st spindle - or trash like the 2nd. Then I can decide who to pester for a refund or replacement - Fry's, Inland (who has already agreed to honor their 1 year warranty) or Optodisc.

Meritline received the bad spindle of OTCBDR media purchased there and posted the amount paid for it to my account for me to spend.
The 3rd spindle of OTCBDR media was just as useless as the 2nd. These were purchased at Fry's under the Inland brand name. I tried to return them there - and got turned away (not a surprise, but it was worth a shot). Inland had already given me a RMA # to return them since they have a 1 year warranty, so they are on the way back to Inland via USPS "media mail" for replacement. One can only hope Inland has since changed suppliers for media sold under the Inland brand name and another bad spindle of OTCBDR doesn't show up on my doorstep . . .

I am currently using "Imation" brand inkjet printable media - internal code Ritek - working perfectly fine - $20 for a 25 disc spindle @ Fry's.
Ritek branded inkjet printable media is $18 + $1 shipping for a 25 disc spindle @ Newegg.

[DVDean]

Sorry to hear that. Seems doubtful they will send back anything better. But one can hope.

If you must spend that Meritline credit on BD-R's and likely to go with cheap, the Philips 4x inkjets have been a decent grade of CMCMAG BA3's. Better gamble than any of the others I see in the $1.00/ea. range over there.

[oglaf]

Does anyone have a line on where I can get TDKBLD-RBD media at a Southern California RETAIL outlet? I have some Falcon 6x media on the way from a mail-order company, but I'd like to get started burning good discs tonight if I can.

[DVDean]

Does anyone have a line on where I can get TDKBLD-RBD media at a Southern California RETAIL outlet? I have some Falcon 6x media on the way from a mail-order company, but I'd like to get started burning good discs tonight if I can.I know that feeling :D. You finally reach that point where you're done risking your time and money on spinning the BD-R Wheel of Chance.

At retail you would have to get lucky enough to run across some stock of made in Japan or made in UAE TDK Professional spindles. Hope someone from your area knows of a stash :). Falcon's are not and will not be sold at the retail level. This is how they are capable of maintaining their no compromise/no outsourcing business model. TDK and others that sell at retail need to give you cheap in order to make any profit in that market. Here (http://orders.mediadistributors.com/Catalog.asp?categoryname=Bulk%2C+Printable+Blu-ray+Discs) is one location in Southern California for Falcons. Don't hesitate to contact Fred Perez fred.perez@falconrak.com for other professional suppliers in your area. He has been quite determined to keep Falcon USA media at a true professional quality level as other media companies struggle with losing money at the retail level and end up cutting the quality of their supposed "Professional" media to remain profitable.

[Ghitulescu]

I'm not that sure that the manufacturers actually have or implement a grading system (quality A for pro, quality B for public). I think it's either/or. Optical discs are not the mainstream storage option, so this market is small compared to the customers' one.

[DVDean]

I'm not that sure that the manufacturers actually have or implement a grading system (quality A for pro, quality B for public). I think it's either/or. Optical discs are not the mainstream storage option, so this market is small compared to the customers' one.

In fact, they do. Optical media manufacturing facilities spend a great deal of money for systems like DVD CATS and Pulstec BD-ODU to keep track of their media's quality and grade them. The grade is determined by many factors. A professional media manufacturer like FTI/Falcon who chooses to keep their materials consistent and manufactures all their own media in-house has grades based on things like stamper wear. Other manufacturers will reduce manufacturing costs and produce cheaper grades by a number of means like using thinner dye/reflective layer, running production machines at faster than ideal rates, using older production lines, or using lower quality/recycled polycarbonate. The professional optical media market is still quite substantial. Video production houses and professional duplication services among others still have need for high quality media that results in 100% usable product for them. Businesses/organizations are still using them for redundant archival records.

[Ghitulescu]

Well, you might be right, but I said a different thing: I am not talking about grading "after" (as in sampling the batches and those not fulfilling some criteria be sold as B grade), I was talking about having two lines: one or more for premium products (that must fulfil all these criteria) and one or more for consumer ones (whose products may not reach the pro criteria by design, yet still be of a good quality). A priori grading.

Optical media, to my knowledge, was never the main archival media (they are simply too small for big archives, and for regular backups they are not erasable), but yes, those corporations/organisations do still need them because they are compatible with "regular" workstations, remote located small departments may share confidential data on discs, and so on. Also small companies that are required by the law to keep archives, like medical labs or notarial offices, use either MODs or magnetic tapes. But I am located in Europe, things may be different in the USA.

[DVDean]

I'm sorry if I was not clear enough. Manufacturers are intentionally producing A priory B and C grade media to be sold at the retail/consumer level. Price competition and mark-ups through the retail supply chain require that they use the manufacturing cost-saving and quality-reducing measures that I mentioned along with others to remain profitable and competitive with media sold at the retail/consumer level. I'm sorry to be the one to tell you, but the difference between true professional quality media and consumer media is very real and intentional and created by A priory manufacturing/material choices by manufacturers.

[Adbear]

Trying to work out the consensus here :)

I get my media from scan.co.uk

The last lot I got were these "AONE" branded ones: http://www.scan.co.uk/products/10pcs-cakebox-aone-blu-ray-bdr-ff-10c-25gb-full-face-printable
They identify as Philips R04 (HTL) in DVD Identifier

They burned fine and read fine at the time (burned at 4x using a BDR-205), but 6 months later they're unreadable - if I tilt them in bright light, I can see a sort of "decay" of the recording layer (odd since I thought HTL wasn't organic), in the sort of pattern that liquid would make if it were spilled on it.

So avoid those for anything long term.

Reading all the way through the thread, Ritek and Verbatim seem to get mentioned a lot but on both sides of the story. Thing is the Verbatims are expensive and they're LTH which people seem to think best avoided.

These are the Traxdata branded Riteks I'm looking at (RITE801)
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/10pcs-cake-box-ritek-(traxdata)-rite801-25gb-bd-r-4x-blu-ray-single-sided-printable-130min

Wondering if they're any good... failing that I might just have to give up on Blu-Ray as I don't like spending £1 a pop only to find they're unusable 6 months later. Not sure I want to be gambling close to £2 a go on Verbatims either.
Don't buy the traxdata, unless they've improved in the past couple of years they have a high decay rate, over 70% of mine from 2-3 years ago now all have read errors on them. If you're in the UK and looking for a good cheap brand I've found PiiData(Ritek) seem to be very good and stable as long as you don't burn faster than their rated speed, I've been using them since they first came out and so far (over 3 years down the line and well over 800 discs) all of the discs still work (I know this because I've just recently copied them RAID box)
You can get them from here
http://www.optical-disc.co.uk/index.html

[Rich86]

Meritline received the bad spindle of OTCBDR media purchased there and posted the amount paid for it to my account for me to spend.
The 3rd spindle of OTCBDR media was just as useless as the 2nd. These were purchased at Fry's under the Inland brand name. I tried to return them there - and got turned away (not a surprise, but it was worth a shot). Inland had already given me a RMA # to return them since they have a 1 year warranty, so they are on the way back to Inland via USPS "media mail" for replacement. One can only hope Inland has since changed suppliers for media sold under the Inland brand name and another bad spindle of OTCBDR doesn't show up on my doorstep . . .

I am currently using "Imation" brand inkjet printable media - internal code Ritek - working perfectly fine - $20 for a 25 disc spindle @ Fry's.
Ritek branded inkjet printable media is $18 + $1 shipping for a 25 disc spindle @ Newegg.

My replacement spindle of BD-R media arrived from Inland. This is the warranty replacement for the OPT media purchased at Fry's. It is not the same media as what I sent them (maybe good news?). Unfortunately, it is also not ink jet printable media, which is my preference and what I sent them for replacement. It has a blue label branded "ProHT powered by Inland". I read elsewhere this may be Philips media, but I haven't opened it yet to check it out. I may try to unload it for inkjet printable media. But, at least I have successfully gotten a refund or replacement for both spindles of bad OTCBDR media.

[Ghitulescu]

Don't buy the traxdata, unless they've improved in the past couple of years they have a high decay rate, over 70% of mine from 2-3 years ago now all have read errors on them.

That is a non-sense, a company that does not manufacture something cannot "improve". Can only change to a better supplier :), but generally they change to a cheaper one.

[Adbear]

That is a non-sense, a company that does not manufacture something cannot "improve". Can only change to a better supplier :), but generally they change to a cheaper one.No it's not a 'nonsense', the quality of the discs they receive even from the same supplier may have improved, and even if they get them supplied by a different supplier the quality of the disc they supply under their own brand name may still have either improved or degraded. Just because they don't manufacture the disc themselves doesn't mean the quality of the discs they put out under their brand name can't improve or degrade.

[Rich86]

My replacement spindle of BD-R media arrived from Inland. This is the warranty replacement for the OPT media purchased at Fry's. It is not the same media as what I sent them (maybe good news?). Unfortunately, it is also not ink jet printable media, which is my preference and what I sent them for replacement. It has a blue label branded "ProHT powered by Inland". I read elsewhere this may be Philips media, but I haven't opened it yet to check it out. I may try to unload it for inkjet printable media. But, at least I have successfully gotten a refund or replacement for both spindles of bad OTCBDR media.

I heard back from Inland Media concerning my replacement "branded" media vs. the defective inkjet printable media I sent them for replacement. Quote follows:

They are from a different (better) manufacturer but the main reason for the change on the front was to promote our ProHT brand name actually. ProHT is going to attempt to mimic Inland in having the best price, but they are trying to raise the bar on quality a little bit so they will have a better reputation quality wise. ProHT products should have a much lower defect rate while still maintaining very competitive prices to our original Inland products (which we still carry in most catagories).

However, in the case of this product, all of the older Inland model have been sold or recycled already and the only new ones we will get are pre-printed with the ProHT logo.

So, it sounds like they (Inland) realized they had a quality problem with the OTCBDR media and have taken steps to head in a different direction with a different manufacturer as a result. I haven't opened or used media from the replacement spindle yet, but will report back on what it is and how it works when I do.

[setarip_old]

all of the older Inland model have been sold or recycledA skeptic might interpret that statement as Inland knowingly sold defective media...

[Ghitulescu]

No it's not a 'nonsense', the quality of the discs they receive even from the same supplier may have improved, and even if they get them supplied by a different supplier the quality of the disc they supply under their own brand name may still have either improved or degraded. Just because they don't manufacture the disc themselves doesn't mean the quality of the discs they put out under their brand name can't improve or degrade.

No, I said something different. The quality, to be compared, must be referenced. Each burner has a different, optimised strategy for each MID (at least one hopes it's like that). If ones buys a Ferrari over his old Dodge, it's not an improvement of the Dodge. If one buys Make 4 over Make 3 of a Dodge, and its quality surpasses the older one, this is an improvement.

Changing from a supplier to another one is not an improvement. It's a new start.

Let's play this mental game: Maybe the Optiarc yields better results with OPTODISC while the LGs have very good burns with INFOMEDIAR, but not viceversa. So, for LGs a change from OPTO to INFO is an "improvement", but not for Optiarc.
Ah, if one uses newer batches of OPTODISC (same MID, thus same strategy) in the same burner and the results are better - now this is an improvement.

[DVDean]

So, it sounds like they (Inland) realized they had a quality problem with the OTCBDR media and have taken steps to head in a different direction with a different manufacturer as a result. I haven't opened or used media from the replacement spindle yet, but will report back on what it is and how it works when I do.

Anxious to hear what you find in that spindle. The suspense is killing me :D. Hopefully they did not take a tiny step in the right direction with Ritek or MBI and chose CMC or Infomedia. Their consumer grades have been looking a little more reliable recently.

I am not getting my hopes up, though. Their statement "ProHT products should have a much lower defect rate" reflects the sad truth about most of what reseller brands are selling us. The media they can buy cheaply enough to make a profit on still has an acceptable "defect rate".

[Cloudane]

I've been discussing better affordable Ritek and MBI PhilipR04 options with friends in Europe. Yes, I have heard that those Aone's are junk. These (http://www.aprmedia.com/product.php?pid=7778) are one of the better options. They are also available here (http://shop.cd-writer.com/catalog/falcon-bdr-4x-consumer-inkjet-25-pack-p-242879.html?manufacturers_id=1743) even cheaper, though they sold out a few days ago, don't know when they will be back in stock. I know of people who have found both versions of the Riteks to fail much too quickly. I think I would stay away from those. Philips branded INFOMER30 BD-R's in Europe are looking encouraging, but have not been around long enough to have much long term life feedback.

Cool, I'll bear those links in mind, thanks.

Don't buy the traxdata, unless they've improved in the past couple of years they have a high decay rate, over 70% of mine from 2-3 years ago now all have read errors on them. If you're in the UK and looking for a good cheap brand I've found PiiData(Ritek) seem to be very good and stable as long as you don't burn faster than their rated speed, I've been using them since they first came out and so far (over 3 years down the line and well over 800 discs) all of the discs still work (I know this because I've just recently copied them RAID box)
You can get them from here
http://www.optical-disc.co.uk/index.html

That's exactly what I was looking for - something tried and tested in the long term, and well priced! :thanks:

Ritek seem to have a fairly mixed reputation, but it's probably the most palatable of the options with such feedback in mind. Can't be any worse than the Aone (Philips R04)s.

[Ghitulescu]

I use Riteks 4x (cheap), no problems at all, look solid built, too.

[Adbear]

No, I said something different. The quality, to be compared, must be referenced. Each burner has a different, optimised strategy for each MID (at least one hopes it's like that). If ones buys a Ferrari over his old Dodge, it's not an improvement of the Dodge. If one buys Make 4 over Make 3 of a Dodge, and its quality surpasses the older one, this is an improvement.

Changing from a supplier to another one is not an improvement. It's a new start.

Let's play this mental game: Maybe the Optiarc yields better results with OPTODISC while the LGs have very good burns with INFOMEDIAR, but not viceversa. So, for LGs a change from OPTO to INFO is an "improvement", but not for Optiarc.
Ah, if one uses newer batches of OPTODISC (same MID, thus same strategy) in the same burner and the results are better - now this is an improvement.
Why do people always resort to these wildly inaccurate car analogies? Using your own analogy, Make 4 uses components sourced from a different manufacturer than Make 3, therefore going by your argument that can't be an improvement as the components come from a different manufacturer even though they are branded as Dodge.
The disc are supplied under their own brand name therefore their own brand can improve, makes no difference if they buy them from the same supplier and the discs get better or if they buy them from another manufacturer altogether, the disc sold as their own brand will have still improved if the new supply is better. This also has nothing to do with burner versus disc brand as the discs were burnt across a range of burners at the time and they worked at the time and have since degraded over time.

[Rich86]

A skeptic might interpret that statement as Inland knowingly sold defective media...

Well, they surely knew it was bad at some point (probably when the phone started ringing off the hook in their technical support department and their email in-boxes filled up). I imagine folks like me cost them a bit of money also, as we insisted on replacement or refunds within their 1 year warranty period . . :-)
I will say, however, that Inland was very cooperative and responsive to the problem once I contacted them. I got the RMA # promptly, and received replacement product promptly after shipping them the defective media.

I had asked the person I was communicating with if he knew what brand model the new media was, and got the following response:

"Unfortunately I do not have that information available off hand.
These discs should work more like 98% of the time given the general manufacturing defect rate, but generally it will be a whole spindle that's defective not just 1 or 2 discs.
Hopefully this new manufacturer proves to be more reliable than the last one. Let me know how it goes."


Sounds pretty clear to me they knew they had a problem. The 25 disc spindle I had was purchased for $12 after a $15 rebate from Inland . . so . . maybe at some point someone knew they were dumping marginal goods into the market. They would not be the first - and won't be the last.

The replacement media they sent me has an internal code of "PHILIP-R04-000". The spindle has a made in China sticker on the bottom. I think someone commented that Philips media was actually manufactured by CMC in Taiwan. I'm glad to not see an "OTC" code anywhere!

[DVDean]

The replacement media they sent me has an internal code of "PHILIP-R04-000". The spindle has a made in China sticker on the bottom. I think someone commented that Philips media was actually manufactured by CMC in Taiwan. I'm glad to not see an "OTC" code anywhere!

Moser Baer India(MBI) bought out Philips optical media branch and manufactures PHILIPR04's. CMC has nothing to do with Philips media. I have not heard of MBI doing any production in China. So those are quite likely unlicensed "fake" PHILIPR04's.
Keep a close eye on those. They have basically already told you how long to expect them to last with their 1 year warranty. Chinese BD-R are not currently being sold as "Pro" by anyone else for good reason. Talk about marketing hype ;).

[Ghitulescu]

Chinese BD-R are not currently being sold as "Pro" by anyone else for good reason. Talk about marketing hype ;).

I don't know exactly for this type of disc, however the most crappy things I have ever seen were proudly labelled Professional, Professional quality or For professional uses or similar slogans. Look on eBay for professional - you'll see what I mean :)

[DVDean]

I don't know exactly for this type of disc, however the most crappy things I have ever seen were proudly labelled Professional, Professional quality or For professional uses or similar slogans. Look on eBay for professional - you'll see what I mean :)

I stand corrected :D. I have seen some pathetic Taiwan-made "Professional" media. I'm unfortunately willing to believe you if you say you've seen MIC "Pro".
FTI actually went into business 6 years ago in response to this decline in the standard of what is being called "Professional" media. Large investment in state-of-the-art "clean-room" technology at their facilities for all operations from production to print coating to packaging, unique in the world of optical media production. And minimum quality of media leaving the factory required to meet book spec. In 2008, with high-end production facilities already in place, they were the first company outside of Japan to begin Blu-ray production, using the best of Japanese materials and technology. Very glad that their business model proved to be sustainable and I have not had to put up with an "acceptable defect rate" with my media for several years now.

[Ghitulescu]

I was not talking about FTI media. I generally do not discuss things I don't know.
I said that many things that are more or less junk (Teleshopping quality) are labelled as Professional or similar.
I don't think that my negative comments on things that have been labelled as professional do cause to the real pro products. At least in Germany they are sold through specific channels, from profi to profi, to reuse a slogan.

[Cloudane]

Just burned a couple of my new PiData (Ritek) 4X discs and suddenly realised Toast said "Current write speed: 6x" (And maybe faster?)
That doesn't bode well for those discs then. I thought the speed of a disc was encoded on it to stop software from burning too fast unless you explicitly enable an overspeed feature :/

[Ghitulescu]

Just burned a couple of my new PiData (Ritek) 4X discs and suddenly realised Toast said "Current write speed: 6x" (And maybe faster?)
That doesn't bode well for those discs then. I thought the speed of a disc was encoded on it to stop software from burning too fast unless you explicitly enable an overspeed feature :/

Not exactly. The value indicated by the disc's manufacturer is the MAX SPEED possible with this disc if one needs to be within the required specs. How much technicality and how much marketing is hidden there I can't say.

Beasides, who's gonna buy a 12x recorder if no 12x discs are sold? :D

[hello_hello]

No, I said something different. The quality, to be compared, must be referenced. Each burner has a different, optimised strategy for each MID (at least one hopes it's like that). If ones buys a Ferrari over his old Dodge, it's not an improvement of the Dodge. If one buys Make 4 over Make 3 of a Dodge, and its quality surpasses the older one, this is an improvement.

What an odd analogy. Of course a Ferrari isn't an improved dodge, but it's still better than a dodge.
If a disc manufacturer was using "dodge" dye on their discs, but later switch to using "Ferrari" dye on the same discs, how have the discs not improved?

[hello_hello]

Just burned a couple of my new PiData (Ritek) 4X discs and suddenly realised Toast said "Current write speed: 6x" (And maybe faster?)
That doesn't bode well for those discs then. I thought the speed of a disc was encoded on it to stop software from burning too fast unless you explicitly enable an overspeed feature :/

The way I understand it, supported speeds are a function of the drive's firmware as well as the speed of the media. Nero InfoTool reports the supported speeds for a disc, and I'm pretty sure it's based on the drive's firmware. For instance I have a few different DVD burners and a Bluray burner. I can stick a 16x Verbatim disc (DVD) in each drive and the maximum speed reported by Nero InfoTool can be either 16x, 18x or 20x, depending on the drive. I can insert different brands of 16x media and get different maximum speeds. Something like this:
http://www.dslreports.com/r0/download/1298378~d2fe82f4a823a36dd7f27c4ee70ea886/dvds.png
If the burner is willing to burn the disc above it's rated speed, it should be a reasonable indication the drive's firmware is capable of decent quality at an increased speed and possibly an indication the discs are of a decent quality. I say that because a given drive will be more likely to burn good quality media at higher than it's rated speed than it will cheap media.
If you're worried about it, you should be able to set the burn speed to the disc's rated speed manually.

If the firmware doesn't support a particular disc, then I think the drive should stick to the maximum rated speed. For instance the Bluray discs I use are rated at 4x but when I run Nero InfoTool it says it's unable to determine the supported speeds... I assume because the drive's firmware doesn't specifically support those discs. The burner starts off at 1x and happily ramps up to 4x by the end of the burn though.


Beasides, who's gonna buy a 12x recorder if no 12x discs are sold?

All the people who buy 22x DVD burners??

[Cloudane]

Thanks for the info on the speeds.

I'll leave the two I did at the faster speed, burn the rest at 4X for safety, and see which ones still work in 6 months :)

[hello_hello]

Cloudane,
What's the MID of the discs you're using? The only 4x Ritek media on my burner's support list are RITEK_BR2 and RITEK_BO1. The latter are LtoH discs. According to the support list my Pioneer BDR-206 should be able to burn the former at 10x and the latter at 4x, so if your discs are RITEK_BR2, then 6x probably isn't too over the top, speed-wise.
After researching my drive I guess my assumption a drive would limit the speed of unsupported media to the media's rated speed was wrong. Seems the drive probably just uses it's own maximum speed when burning unsupported media.

Seems I was also a little incorrect about my Bluray discs. I think they're rated at 6x (don't have a spindle with a label still intact to check) but according to this list they are:
Disc Manufacturer ID & Media Type ID Licensee List (http://www.blu-raydisc.info/licensee-list/discmanuid-licenseelist.php)
CMC Magnetics Corporation, CMCMAG, BA5, 1-6X

So then I did some research on my drive (Pioneer BDR-206) and downloaded the media support PDF. If I'm reading it correctly when media is not supported by the drive it limits the speed to 4x but the CMCMAG media is on the list and seems to be supported at a burn speed of 12x.
After reading that, and as I'm using an older version of Nero, I thought I'd give ImgBurn a spin. When it comes to DVD media ImgBurn and Nero seem to agree on the maximum supported speed, but it appears ImgBurn is aware my drive can burn this 6x media at up to 12x whereas Nero is not. Why, I don't know.

Unfortunately I don't have any more blank discs to use to test burn speeds, but I'll be buying some in the near future. At least thanks to this thread I may have discovered the error of my ways, although it's kind of disappointing to realize I probably could have been burning these discs at 12x using ImgBurn rather than at 4x using Nero.

[DVDean]

The quality of Ritek 4x BR2 is on the low side to begin with. The 6x Ritek BR3 are slightly better, but best not burned above 4x. A friend burning some of the Ridata branded 4x BD-R's just a couple days ago wound up with error levels that make it unlikely those discs will remain readable for long. Ritek quality has not been improving.

OK folks. Here's the deal with high speed burning. The high speeds that are allowed by burner firmwares exist for the sake of professional users in duplication towers who need the faster production ability and are spending the extra money for high quality duplication grade media to enable usable high speed burns. They are generally not concerned with longevity, simply getting a usable disc in the shortest time possible. Just because your burner is willing to burn a particular disc MID at 12x or 24x does not mean it is capable of doing so with all grades of that disc.

Error rates on burns generally climb rapidly with burn speed. A little less so with high quality media, drastically so with consumer level media. If you wish to get as much longevity as possible from your media, as well as increase your odds of avoiding coasters, do not burn it above rated speed. If you have high confidence in the quality of your media, you may get decent results and longevity burning one or two speeds above the rated speed. If you are not familiar with the quality of your media or feel it may not be the best, one or two speeds below rated is often the best choice.

[hello_hello]

Error rates on burns generally climb rapidly with burn speed. A little less so with high quality media, drastically so with consumer level media. If you wish to get as much longevity as possible from your media, as well as increase your odds of avoiding coasters, do not burn it above rated speed. If you have high confidence in the quality of your media, you may get decent results and longevity burning one or two speeds above the rated speed. If you are not familiar with the quality of your media or feel it may not be the best, one or two speeds below rated is often the best choice.

Are you able to supply burn quality tests to support your speed claims?
I can't say I've ever tested a Bluray disc but I regularly test DVDs and I'm of the opinion burn quality at various speeds is very dependent on the drive/disc combination. A generalization that error rates climb rapidly with (over)speed doesn't seem to hold up.
I'm also skeptical burning at higher than rated speed is enabled specifically for professional duplication because burning speeds aren't exactly something manufacturers are scared to market to consumers, and they're certainly a factor when choosing a burner for a home PC.

There's also the fact burners don't burn at the same speed throughout the whole disc. It's quite possible a burner burning at 6x may only burn a small portion of the disc faster than it would at 4x, and it's also possible one burner burning at 4x times may ramp up to that speed earlier in the burn than a different burner burning at 6x, and would therefore be burning earlier portions of the disc faster. Ever noticed (when burning DVDs at least) how sometimes one burner at 16x may only be marginally faster at filling a disc than another burner at 12x?

Your friend who ended up with lots of errors when burning at 6x.... how much of the disc was actually burned at a faster speed than it would have been had he stuck with 4x? And did the error rate increase over the whole disc, or just towards the end where the speed increased beyond 4x?

I'm even willing to believe error rates can change according to how often the drive is used. ie whether the dust inside the drive has had a chance to build up if it doesn't get used a lot. I've had some marathon burning sessions in the past where after a while I seem to produce consistently higher quality burns for no apparent reason. I even wonder how much ambient temperature might play a part in burn quality.

[Ghitulescu]

Are you able to supply burn quality tests to support your speed claims?

You are the only one here who is of the opinion that increasing burning speed does not cause increasing errors.

And it is also interesting to see that you ask for evidence instead of providing yourself some. The burden of proof lies usually with the one going against the mainstream.

[DVDean]

Are you able to supply burn quality tests to support your speed claims?

Personally? Thousands. Plextor scans. BenQ scans. Lite-on scans. FACTORY SCANS. I would point you to club.MYCE for thousands more.

The fact that error rates continue to rise beyond a certain speed with any media is simple physics. As burn speed increases and laser pulses get faster, motor speed control becomes more critical, vibration induces miswrites, disc tilt pushes tilt compensation to it's limits, etc., etc.

I am intimately aquainted with CAV, P-CAV, CLV, Z-CLV. These have nothing to do with the fact that write errors are more likely at higher than rated speed.

You need to understand something. Your consumer drive is not as accurate as the testing equipment used at the factory level. A 4x, 8x, 16x rated media is required to provide a burn that meets industry book spec at that speed tested by highly accurate systems. Media manufacturers provide prime samples of their media to meet this certification. All too often much of what comes from their factory will not meet that standard. Entirely too few manufacturers continue to hold that level of quality after initial certification.
On the other hand, if they had a disc formulation that could burn to spec at 18x, 20x, 24x, they would be shouting it from the rooftops and selling 20x dvd's like hotcakes. Have you noticed that isn't happening?

Only the highest quality media will be able to yield a burn that is within spec at above rated speed. Many spindles of media do require burning at lower than rated speed to come close to a book spec burn. Most people are not using the highest quality media. Most people who are using average quality media and following your advice will pop their overspeed burned disc in their drive a year from now and find it unreadable. Does that make you feel good about yourself?

My reference to Riteks was simply to try to help save people from coastering their BR2's in spite of your wrong guess that they might be good enough to overspeed. And the friend that is seeing poor quality with BR2 at rated speed is the moderator for an optical media forum. He actually does know what he's talking about. There's no mystery behind the short longevity of Riteks.

Anyone with some knowledge of optical media and burners knows better than to advise people to burn their media as fast as they can. It would be irresponsible. I've lost count of the times I've helped a forum member stop burning coasters by manually setting their burn speed lower and not letting their burning software choose a higher speed.

Your superstitions about changing error rates are cute :). I have a friend who swears he gets better burns when he's wearing his dark blue pinstriped shirt. Harmless fun, I suppose.

[Rich86]

Well, they surely knew it was bad at some point (probably when the phone started ringing off the hook in their technical support department and their email in-boxes filled up). I imagine folks like me cost them a bit of money also, as we insisted on replacement or refunds within their 1 year warranty period . . :-)
I will say, however, that Inland was very cooperative and responsive to the problem once I contacted them. I got the RMA # promptly, and received replacement product promptly after shipping them the defective media.

I had asked the person I was communicating with if he knew what brand model the new media was, and got the following response:

"Unfortunately I do not have that information available off hand.
These discs should work more like 98% of the time given the general manufacturing defect rate, but generally it will be a whole spindle that's defective not just 1 or 2 discs.
Hopefully this new manufacturer proves to be more reliable than the last one. Let me know how it goes."


Sounds pretty clear to me they knew they had a problem. The 25 disc spindle I had was purchased for $12 after a $15 rebate from Inland . . so . . maybe at some point someone knew they were dumping marginal goods into the market. They would not be the first - and won't be the last.

The replacement media they sent me has an internal code of "PHILIP-R04-000". The spindle has a made in China sticker on the bottom. I think someone commented that Philips media was actually manufactured by CMC in Taiwan. I'm glad to not see an "OTC" code anywhere!

Update:
I just burned the 1st disc out of the spindle of Philip-R04-000 replacement media from Inland. It burned fine @ 4x and seems to read/play just fine.

[diogen]

The fact that error rates continue to rise beyond a certain speed with any media is simple physics.Very much so. But what is that "certain speed"?

The first CD burners ($3,000 apiece, IIRC) couldn't do anything better than 1x.
Today burning CDs at less than 24x I'm not sure is possible. At least without hacking the burner.
Hence, that "certain speed" is a moving target.

On the other hand, there were tests showing that going above 52x speed lifts the odds of disk destruction to 50/50...

For the record: I haven't done much CD/DVD burning over the last few years, use hard drive based storage instead.

Diogen.

[Ghitulescu]

Today burning CDs at less than 24x I'm not sure is possible. At least without hacking the burner.

I think it's 8x or 10x for most burners. The only new CD-burners that allowed 4x or (god forbid :)) 1x was the Yamaha CRW-F1 (44x) and the Plextor Premium (54x). NEW is a relative term, but in this context it refers to the last generations of pure CD-burners.

The latest generations of DVD-burners did not allow anything below 4x if not 6x, even with 1x, 2x or 4x rated media.

Writable media should never be burned above their rated speed. Even their rated speed is sometimes nothing than gambling, especially with budget manufacturers or distributors, as they tend to give some fantasy values (marketing).

[Rich86]

I think it's 8x or 10x for most burners. The only new CD-burners that allowed 4x or (god forbid :)) 1x was the Yamaha CRW-F1 (44x) and the Plextor Premium (54x). NEW is a relative term, but in this context it refers to the last generations of pure CD-burners.

The latest generations of DVD-burners did not allow anything below 4x if not 6x, even with 1x, 2x or 4x rated media.

Writable media should never be burned above their rated speed. Even their rated speed is sometimes nothing than gambling, especially with budget manufacturers or distributors, as they tend to give some fantasy values (marketing).

My philosophy has always been to select a burn speed in the middle of the burners capabilities and rated media (ex. 48x speed cd-r media in a 52x burner gets 24x, 16x DVD media generally gets 8X). This approach has served me well, so far (although I find with some BD-R media, my drive seems to insist on using 4x burn speed with 4x media - but it works ok).

[DVDean]

Update:
I just burned the 1st disc out of the spindle of Philip-R04-000 replacement media from Inland. It burned fine @ 4x and seems to read/play just fine.Glad to hear it.

From my experience, your burn speed recipe is a very good way to end up with usable/durable discs.

Very much so. But what is that "certain speed"?

With media quality varying as much as it does from some manufacturers, that is a moving target :) .
One of the best reasons to advise conservative burn speeds to allow for the occasional sub-par batch of media.

[diogen]

In January this year, while cleaning one of the shelves, I found a black zipped sleeve with half a dozen burned CDs.
Those were at least 15 years old since they had Netscape Web Server (and related) software burned on it, multiple copies.
I don't recall when and how I burned it, but the media was not really top of the line, more like no-name with one white (writable!) side.

I put it into my optical CD/DVD/HD-DVD/BD drive (LG) and had absolutely no problems reading the content...

Admittedly, this evidence is nothing but anecdotal.
But I think there is more than just burning speed responsible for the longevity of burned media.
Leave a CD with the data side facing direct sunlight, and you might not be able to read it by the end of the day.

Regardless of burning speed...

Diogen.

[F3L0N]

Hey all, I browsed through this thread briefly, so sorry if this has been covered... But I was wondering if anyone has a suggestion for BD-25 media to use with a PS3 Slim? just upgraded to a BD burner and was hoping for a recommendation of something that works well. Thanks for the help!

[Ch3vr0n]

There's only 1 brand i use for all my different types of blanks, that's verbatim. Playback pretty much guaranteed on any device

[hello_hello]

Well I'm late coming back to this thread, but I hadn't realized there were further replies, and upon reading them was astounded (well I wasn't really surprised at all) to discover how selective the memory can be when it's convenient.

You are the only one here who is of the opinion that increasing burning speed does not cause increasing errors.

And it is also interesting to see that you ask for evidence instead of providing yourself some. The burden of proof lies usually with the one going against the mainstream.

One of the many times I've posted quality test results.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1535400#post1535400

And of course I never said increasing burning speed can't increase errors, I said it's dependent on the media and the drive's burning strategy etc. Chances are there's a particular speed at which a particular drive is going to burn best using a particular media, and I'd be willing to bet more often than not, it's not going to be the drive's slowest speed.
I've stated several times in other threads I have a couple of old Pioneer burners which seem to do best at 12x using 16x Verbatim media so that's the speed I use.


Only the highest quality media will be able to yield a burn that is within spec at above rated speed. Many spindles of media do require burning at lower than rated speed to come close to a book spec burn. Most people are not using the highest quality media. Most people who are using average quality media and following your advice will pop their overspeed burned disc in their drive a year from now and find it unreadable. Does that make you feel good about yourself?

I wasn't arguing that's not the case. I simply stated that I don't think you can offer a generalization that higher speed = more errors as you originally did. I've used cheap media in the past where no doubt the best quality was obtained by slowing down the burn, however maybe some manufacturers are more responsible than others. I just looked at the media support list for the latest Pioneer DVD burner (24x) and currently there's only 2 brands of media it'll burn at 24x, 3 brands at 22x, 12 brands a 20x, 24 brands at 18x and 26 brands of disc at 16x.
So you can't just stick in any old disc and burn at more than 18x, and your speed argument doesn't take the drive's burn strategy into account. There's a very strong likelihood a given burner will burn 90% of the disc at the same speed regardless of whether you burn at 16x, 20x or 24x.... it might only be the last few percent of the disc which ever achieves the maximum speed, and chances are much of that speed is more marketing than it is a reduction in burning time.

I've got one burner here which (if memory serves me correctly), when it's set to burn at 12x, ramps up to that speed much faster than another drive set to burn at 16x. For a good portion of the disc it's burning faster at 12x than the second burner at 16x, so a burn using the second drive isn't all that much faster in total burning time.
Drives don't burn the disc at the same speed from start to finish, yet "slower is better" generalizations often seem to be made under the assumption they do.

My reference to Riteks was simply to try to help save people from coastering their BR2's in spite of your wrong guess that they might be good enough to overspeed. And the friend that is seeing poor quality with BR2 at rated speed is the moderator for an optical media forum. He actually does know what he's talking about. There's no mystery behind the short longevity of Riteks.

I never made any reference to Ritek, so saying I wrongly guessed they're good enough to overspeed is simply putting words in my mouth, and of course if the quality is poor at rated speed it's not likely to improve at faster speeds, but there's nothing to say it'll decrease either. If a particular burner isn't doing well with a particular media at it's rated speed, you don't need to be an moderator of an optical forum to know it simply isn't very good at burning to those discs. As I've said, it depends as much on the burner being used as it does the disc.

Anyone with some knowledge of optical media and burners knows better than to advise people to burn their media as fast as they can. It would be irresponsible.

Well I guess it's just as well that's not what I said, isn't it?

Very much so. But what is that "certain speed"?
The first CD burners ($3,000 apiece, IIRC) couldn't do anything better than 1x.
Today burning CDs at less than 24x I'm not sure is possible. At least without hacking the burner.
Hence, that "certain speed" is a moving target.

Thank you. My point exactly.

[nikknightt]

You can try unchecking "BD-R verify not required" on the "write" tab in ImgBurn's settings for a little help. This will enable the drive's full on-the-fly burn quality checking/adjustment. When burning high quality media, this is unnecessary and should be checked. Clear the OPC. Turn off OPC. A bad disc's optimum laser power requirements will often vary quite widely across the disc, and leaving the drives OP at default is usually better. By all means enable online hypertuning and force hypertuning. And if it burns successfully, consider it a victory and celebrate by returning them and buying something else.
At the very least, run a read speed test on the burn and watch for any read slowdowns before you consider it a good burn.

I'm new to using ImgBurn & BD-R.
If you get a chance could you explain these a little more?

"You can try unchecking "BD-R verify not required" on the "write" tab in ImgBurn's settings for a little help."
--I've always used 'verify' whenever I burn something..

"Clear the OPC. Turn off OPC."
--The only reference I see for OPC is 'perform before write'

"By all means enable online hypertuning and force hypertuning."
--Can't find this setting at all.

[DVDean]

I'm new to using ImgBurn & BD-R.
If you get a chance could you explain these a little more?

"You can try unchecking "BD-R verify not required" on the "write" tab in ImgBurn's settings for a little help."
--I've always used 'verify' whenever I burn something..

"Clear the OPC. Turn off OPC."
--The only reference I see for OPC is 'perform before write'

"By all means enable online hypertuning and force hypertuning."
--Can't find this setting at all.

Certainly. Welcome to the forum :).

1. The "BD-R verify not required" setting is kind of confusing. It refers to on-the-fly burn quality checking and adjusting. It has no relation to the verify after burning function that you wisely choose to use. With a check in that box, on-the-fly write/read verification can be disabled. The effect of this setting varies from drive to drive. Little to no difference with some drives and media, a noticeable improvement or decline with others. Unchecking this option can help at times, but the results are too variable depending on media/burner combinations for me to develop a hard and fast rule. I encourage anyone to find the best choice for their particular situation with this setting. If in doubt, I would probably leave it unchecked. Some of my drives(Pioneer BDR-205 comes to mind) often perform noticeably better with it unchecked.

2&3. Turning off OPC would be unchecking the "perform OPC" of course. OPC is a quick test that a drive can do before burning the disc. A drive simply burns short bursts at different laser power levels within the power calibration area of the disc and examines the result to fine tune the laser power output for the best burn with that disc. Some drives use this more effectively than others. Again there is no universal best setting for this option. It is worth experimenting with on/off to get better burns. There is a "change advanced settings" button on the bottom right in ImgBurn write mode to access "clear OPC history" and "hypertuning".

[RobertM]

B&H (bhphotovideo.com) is now selling Verbatim BD-25 inkjet hub printable blanks (Verb #97339) for $60 for a 50 pack. I started using these discs about 15 months ago, after struggling with several different brands. I've never had a bad burn since. My previous purchases of these discs from B&H were in the $100 range, so this is a great deal, IMO. FYI.

[jfcarbel]

B&H (bhphotovideo.com) is now selling Verbatim BD-25 inkjet hub printable blanks (Verb #97339) for $60 for a 50 pack. I started using these discs about 15 months ago, after struggling with several different brands. I've never had a bad burn since. My previous purchases of these discs from B&H were in the $100 range, so this is a great deal, IMO. FYI.

Awesome thanks for the heads up. I paid $100 for these back in Jan 2012. Rima has then for about the same price $4-5 more.

[A.Fenderson]

I've had good luck with Verbatim as well--in fact for non-RE discs, I've only ever used Verbatim (standard and LTH) and one other brand. B&H is also a great site: awesome service and almost always the best price.

I do want to quickly give my initial experiences with those other discs I tried: they are the Falcon/FTI-manufactured discs previously recommended in this thread. I bought a 25-piece spindle of Falcon-branded BD-RE SL discs (http://www.mediamegamall.com/falcon-bluray-disc-25gb-bdre-falconmedia-branded-25pk-spindle-3161106504000467-p-40080.html) at only US$1.49 per disc, and though I've only used a few of them, they seem great. I also have now bought 5x 25-piece spindles of the Falcon-manufactured SmartBlu BD-R SL discs (http://www.mediamegamall.com/smartblu-bluray-disc-25gb-branded-25pk-cakebox-sbr4br25-p-28554.html) at US$0.79/disc and I've burned 50+ of these discs: not a single unreadable burn or other issue detected thus far, though I don't have any quality-scan software that works with my drive. These are also *not* LTH but standard BD-Rs. For anyone else considering SmartBlu, I don't know which (if any) of their other types of discs are actually made by Falcon/FTI, but I don't think they all are (probably not the DLs, for instance).

[jfcarbel]

I've had good luck with Verbatim as well--in fact for non-RE discs, I've only ever used Verbatim (standard and LTH) and one other brand. B&H is also a great site: awesome service and almost always the best price.

I do want to quickly give my initial experiences with those other discs I tried: they are the Falcon/FTI-manufactured discs previously recommended in this thread. I bought a 25-piece spindle of Falcon-branded BD-RE SL discs (http://www.mediamegamall.com/falcon-bluray-disc-25gb-bdre-falconmedia-branded-25pk-spindle-3161106504000467-p-40080.html) at only US$1.49 per disc, and though I've only used a few of them, they seem great. I also have now bought 5x 25-piece spindles of the Falcon-manufactured SmartBlu BD-R SL discs (http://www.mediamegamall.com/smartblu-bluray-disc-25gb-branded-25pk-cakebox-sbr4br25-p-28554.html) at US$0.79/disc and I've burned 50+ of these discs: not a single unreadable burn or other issue detected thus far, though I don't have any quality-scan software that works with my drive. These are also *not* LTH but standard BD-Rs. For anyone else considering SmartBlu, I don't know which (if any) of their other types of discs are actually made by Falcon/FTI, but I don't think they all are (probably not the DLs, for instance).

I have also tried other brands with no issues, but it is my understanding that the true issue is with age. Many have gone back to discs after 6 months to year and found a drastic change in quality of media doing verification tests. This is where I believe a quality media like Verbatim would differentiate itself from the others. See this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1559493&postcount=488) here.

I will need to scan a few of my 10 month old Optodisc and Ri's and report back. I have some Verbatim burns about 3-4 months old as well.

[DVDIT]

I've had good luck with Verbatim as well--in fact for non-RE discs, I've only ever used Verbatim (standard and LTH) and one other brand. B&H is also a great site: awesome service and almost always the best price.

I do want to quickly give my initial experiences with those other discs I tried: they are the Falcon/FTI-manufactured discs previously recommended in this thread. I bought a 25-piece spindle of Falcon-branded BD-RE SL discs (http://www.mediamegamall.com/falcon-bluray-disc-25gb-bdre-falconmedia-branded-25pk-spindle-3161106504000467-p-40080.html) at only US$1.49 per disc, and though I've only used a few of them, they seem great. I also have now bought 5x 25-piece spindles of the Falcon-manufactured SmartBlu BD-R SL discs (http://www.mediamegamall.com/smartblu-bluray-disc-25gb-branded-25pk-cakebox-sbr4br25-p-28554.html) at US$0.79/disc and I've burned 50+ of these discs: not a single unreadable burn or other issue detected thus far, though I don't have any quality-scan software that works with my drive. These are also *not* LTH but standard BD-Rs. For anyone else considering SmartBlu, I don't know which (if any) of their other types of discs are actually made by Falcon/FTI, but I don't think they all are (probably not the DLs, for instance).

I have extensive experience (3+ years) with verbatim BD-R, model # 96769 and I have never had a single coaster nor any backup that has failed in the last three years. All read,s can and play very well. I do some of my backups with Smart blu's as well and they do burn quite well, and do better than Verbatim on disc quality scans. They also seem to be very, very consistence, as burn quality scan shows very slight difference from disc to disc. Can't say much about longevity however, since my experience with Smartblu's is limited to a few months. But going forward, I've decided to buy nothing but these two, whichever is cheaper.

[varekai]

Can anybody explain what's the difference of these Verbatim mediacodes:
VERBATIMe
VERBATIMu
VERBATIMc

I used to buy 25GB VERBATIMc with excellent burn and read results but I can't find them anymore.

[Video Dude]

Can anybody explain what's the difference of these Verbatim mediacodes:
VERBATIMe
VERBATIMu
VERBATIMc

I used to buy 25GB VERBATIMc with excellent burn and read results but I can't find them anymore.

VERBATIMb = 2x
VERBATIMc = 4x
VERBATIMe = 6x
VERBATIMu = 6x LTH

[jfcarbel]

I have extensive experience (3+ years) with verbatim BD-R, model # 96769 and I have never had a single coaster nor any backup that has failed in the last three years. All read,s can and play very well. I do some of my backups with Smart blu's as well and they do burn quite well, and do better than Verbatim on disc quality scans. They also seem to be very, very consistence, as burn quality scan shows very slight difference from disc to disc. Can't say much about longevity however, since my experience with Smartblu's is limited to a few months. But going forward, I've decided to buy nothing but these two, whichever is cheaper.

Those 96769 Verbatim's are the lower quality LTH media. Many have had issues with LTH media. The 97339 are the regular ones.

These test results here (http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=29942&PageId=34) would also agree with what you see with Verbatim LTH media in your disc quality scans, but the regular Verbatim's are in a whole different league.

Those SmartBlu discs sound interesting, but the low price makes me wonder about long term quality. I have had DVD-R media in the past that burned all 100 no issues (meritline brand), but then half are unreadable now 4 years later. So it would be interesting to see some disc quality scans on these after several months and later.

[varekai]

VERBATIMb = 2x
VERBATIMc = 4x
VERBATIMe = 6x
VERBATIMu = 6x LTH
Thanks, will order VERBATIMe = 6x

regards

[RobertM]

Those 96769 Verbatim's are the lower quality LTH media.

I think they are HTL, based on the product photos and descriptions that I can find.

[DVDean]

I have extensive experience (3+ years) with verbatim BD-R, model # 96769 and I have never had a single coaster nor any backup that has failed in the last three years. All read,s can and play very well. I do some of my backups with Smart blu's as well and they do burn quite well, and do better than Verbatim on disc quality scans. They also seem to be very, very consistence, as burn quality scan shows very slight difference from disc to disc. Can't say much about longevity however, since my experience with Smartblu's is limited to a few months. But going forward, I've decided to buy nothing but these two, whichever is cheaper.
I've started testing my oldest Smartblu discs. I've scanned a number of them from 16-19 months old. I thought you might appreciate hearing that they are holding their quality very well.

LDC averages at that age still down in the 2-6 range. Better than most of my Verbatim burns straight after burning. :)

Verbatims are showing a little higher rate of degradation, but still readable.

[abbadon]

I am about to buy something other than Verbatim for the first time in over 5 years: SmartBlu. I do not see the fabled 79 cent media, only 81. Not a big difference, but I'm wondering if I have the wrong link or something has changed in the media. Has anyone bought at the new price and can confirm they are the same? Again, I don't care about 2 cents, but I was going to order 200 to get the free shipping, and thats alot of coasters if I'm wrong.

[RobertM]

I am about to buy something other than Verbatim for the first time in over 5 years: SmartBlu. I do not see the fabled 79 cent media, only 81.

I would be tempted to try them too, except they are branded at that price; jumps to $1.50 or so for inkjet hub-printable.

[jdobbs]

I would be tempted to try them too, except they are branded at that price; jumps to $1.50 or so for inkjet hub-printable. Yeah, me too. I've heard nothing but good things about them, but I just don't think $1.50 is "inexpensive" for the inkjet printable when compared to other brands. Can it really cost 70 cents per disc to put an inkjet friendly coating on it?

[DVDean]

I am about to buy something other than Verbatim for the first time in over 5 years: SmartBlu. I do not see the fabled 79 cent media, only 81. Not a big difference, but I'm wondering if I have the wrong link or something has changed in the media. Has anyone bought at the new price and can confirm they are the same? Again, I don't care about 2 cents, but I was going to order 200 to get the free shipping, and thats alot of coasters if I'm wrong.

Yes. Smartblu 25GB 4x BD-R still = Falcon 25GB 4x BD-R. Perhaps inflation? Mediamegamall sells primarily to professional large quantity buyers, and their support has been equally professional in my experience. I once got the wrong media in my order(1 silver in an order for 4 IJP) from them, and they promptly shipped the correct item. NC. One of the better sellers I've dealt with.

@ RobertM and jdobbs: I know they don't fall into the "cheap" category. Unless you look at the prices of the other BD-R that score high in longevity testing results and are still manufactured with high-end Japanese materials and machinery. Panasonics really don't come cheap :). In my case, its a matter of confidence that I'm getting what I paid for that makes the cost bearable.

A fairly new arrival to the "inexpensive BD-R media" scene that continues to look really encouraging is Melody(INFOMER30) inkjet printable BD-R. Melody changed to these from CMCMAG BD-R about a year ago, looks to have been a wise move. Google or Amazon will get you to them. My own tests, and quite a lot of others I've seen put these as one of the cleanest burning BD-R currently. No accelerated aging longevity testing data available, unfortunately. My own oldest burns at 10 months show almost no degradation, look encouraging, but I'm not ready to commit burns to these that I want to see lasting at least 5-10 years. Best used with burners from the 10x generation and newer. Best burned at 4-6x. A few older 8x BD burners have updated firmware to include them, but you would want to check. The INFOMER30 BD-R's MID started making it's way into firmwares around the beginning of 2010.

[Video Dude]

I have noticed that Verbatim BD-R DL 50 GB Hub Printable discs have gotten cheaper and can be found for about $2.80 per disc.

Has anyone used these and can comment about reliability? Is there a layer break pause like there is with DVD+R DL?

[A.Fenderson]

I have noticed that Verbatim BD-R DL 50 GB Hub Printable discs have gotten cheaper and can be found for about $2.80 per disc.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and all that. ;-)
Could you please share where you're seeing this incredible deal?

[Video Dude]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and all that. ;-)
Could you please share where you're seeing this incredible deal?
http://www.amazon.com/Verbatim-Blu-ray-Disc-pcs-Spindle/dp/B0056DV0L4/


$140 / 50 = $2.80


Do you think it's worth it?

[A.Fenderson]

Well, it is worth it to me, so I just ordered a spindle. The reviews for that product were great, and I've always had good luck with Verbatim discs on my Pioneer BDR-205, so I don't anticipate any problems. I'll update once I've gotten them and tried a burn or two. Thanks for bringing this to my attention!

As for layer-break issues, I think that was done away with in the move from DVD to BD: I've never had a commercial Blu-ray disc pause during the layer transition on any Blu-ray player, so I don't imagine this would be any different for burned media; those DVD players that had this problem tended to do it on both factory-pressed and burned dual-layer discs. I believe the way BDs buffer from the disc prevents this from happening, but maybe someone else who is in a unique position to confirm or disconfirm that suspicion could comment.

[abbadon]

That a nice price, I only buy verbatim, and now will pick some DL. My understand is that while the layer break still exists as a technical matter, in actually usage it not an issue. I would love to know if this applied to triple and quad layer BD-XL . My biggest quandary is the quality of longevity issues of multi-layer recordable discs, as two-layer DVD recordable has issues compared to single, do/will current/future multilayer BD suffer or solve this issue?

[A.Fenderson]

Well, not exactly a scientific test, but I burned a full BD50 rip to one of the Verbatim BD50s mentioned above (http://www.amazon.com/Verbatim-Blu-ray-Disc-pcs-Spindle/dp/B0056DV0L4/). ImgBurn, using my Pioneer BDR-205, had burn strategies for, I believe, 2x, 4x, 6x, 8x, and 10x burning with these. I didn't want to push my luck too much on media rated for 4x by the manufacturer, so I chose 6x. It burned and verified with no issues, and played back just fine on my PS3 and my Panasonic DMP-BD45. I don't believe Opti Drive Control works with the Pioneer BDR-205 for whatever reason, but if anyone else can suggest any (free) methods of testing the quality of the burn, I'd be happy to try it and then post the results.

[CV91913]

Resurrecting an old thread to pass along something I have just discovered about reliability of Optical Quantum write once discs.

I have been watching some BDs I backed up a couple of years ago. They were backed up to 25gb OQ discs. They are basically disintegrating. The outer edge where there was no data has faded and has kind of a "orange peel" look. And, about an 1/8 of an inch of the darker recorded area starting at the hub has also faded to the point that discovery with Imgburn shows the disc is empty.

I had been using these discs for a while getting them from Meritline. I ran out of them and re ordered another cake box of the same item#. This time the discs were slightly different. Although Imgburn showed the same ID, the outer coating of the disc smudged and picked up finger prints which the previous batch did not. Also, the word "Value" was printed below the OQ logo. I stopped ordering these from Meritline and started getting them from Amazon and have not seen the "Value" logo since.

3 out of the 4 I have watched failed. Looks like I may have to dig out about 25 originals and back them up again. These backups are all stored at room temperature in individual cases.

[A.Fenderson]

@CV91913:
Thanks for the info. Sorry to hear about such massive disc failures you're experiencing.

[Ghitulescu]

Nevertheless I fail to see the reason why this thread is in "DVD Rebuilder" pool :) :) :)
The BDR only look similar to DVD (like the latter looks like a CDR), and the price of the media seems to be unaffected by the tools used to compress the video.

[Groucho2004]

The BDR only look similar to DVD (like the latter looks like a CDR), and the price of the media seems to be unaffected by the tools used to compress the video.
Whatever you're smoking, I want some.

[Ch3vr0n]

the only similarity they have is the disc shape lol. Thats about where it ends :p

[RobertM]

I have been watching some BDs I backed up a couple of years ago. They were backed up to 25gb OQ discs. They are basically disintegrating.

This prompted me to test the very first BD-R disc that I made; Star Trek 11, burnt on Apr 27, 2011. Just re-watched it tonight; flawless from start to end of credits (and what a great movie!). It was on a Verbatim BD-R disc.

[Ghitulescu]

This prompted me to test the very first BD-R disc that I made; Star Trek 11, burnt on Apr 27, 2011. Just re-watched it tonight; flawless from start to end of credits (and what a great movie!). It was on a Verbatim BD-R disc.

I would say this is not unexpected.
The built quality of the early media is exceptionally good - whether CDR, DVDR or BDR. I have CDRs for 20 years now, which are pristine. On the other hand, CDRs of recent batches I use only for car :)
I also have DVDRs that are 10 years old. Also very good, yet I am careful about the new batches, even if they are labelled Verbatim.

[jdobbs]

This prompted me to test the very first BD-R disc that I made; Star Trek 11, burnt on Apr 27, 2011. Just re-watched it tonight; flawless from start to end of credits (and what a great movie!). It was on a Verbatim BD-R disc.I've been using "discount" BD-R discs for years (like Ritek, Titan, and Optical Quantum). I've gone back to the first discs I did back in 2008 -- and haven't found any that have any issues. Of course I would always recommend high-end discs like Verbatim over the discount discs -- but when you're doing a lot of backups that can get pretty expensive over time. To me the secret to good backups is the "Verify" checkbox. If the disc verifies, it is rare that you will experience any future issues.

Sometimes it's not just a matter of what quality of disc you would like to use -- it's the quality you can afford to use.

[Ghitulescu]

To me the secret to good backups is the "Verify" checkbox. If the disc verifies, it is rare that you will experience any future issues.
That's a good check, yet it only says the burned disc is playable (if :) ) in the burner. Since it doesn't harm I always let the software do a VERIFY, and this for 20 years or so. To the people that say this is lost time, I can only say, since the reading time is shorter than the burning time, I actually save the difference, if the first burn is not successful :), but I also have the data on the HDD.

There are some dozens of errors that might occur during burning, and depending on the reader, these may or may not occur. Most of these errors appear as reading errors - and different readers are more tolerant with some errors (say asymmetry) and less tolerant with others (like jitter), or vice-versa.

Therefore, while WRITE+VERIFY is a good procedure, it is not sufficient. The real test would occur at playing time.

[CV91913]

To me the secret to good backups is the "Verify" checkbox. If the disc verifies, it is rare that you will experience any future issues.

I always "Verify" burns to -R. I don't bother with -RW. I also generally watch the disc after burning and have seen problems with content even though "Verify" was on but that, generally, turned out to be a problem with source or rip content. The issue I was reporting was a deterioration in the disc. I have now watched 12 of the backups to Optical Quantum "Value" discs. 7 of them were bad. I think I bought a 25 cake box of them in 2011 so I have looked at about half. I have done 100's of backups to Optical Quantum BD25 discs without the "Value" logo and have not seen the problem with any of those discs...yet.

[RobertM]

In my mind, the most telling point of your observations, CV, was that you could actually SEE - with your eyeballs - that something had changed on the disc surface. It's optical media, therefore visual, and our eyeballs would be hugely less sensitive than the lasers in our drives/players. I would bet than any disc where you can visually see a problem will be toast. The good news is that it sounds like only one spindle of yours was bad.

[CV91913]

In my mind, the most telling point of your observations, CV, was that you could actually SEE - with your eyeballs - that something had changed on the disc surface. It's optical media, therefore visual, and our eyeballs would be hugely less sensitive than the lasers in our drives/players. I would bet than any disc where you can visually see a problem will be toast. The good news is that it sounds like only one spindle of yours was bad.
This was an old discussion but I have an update. To avoid confusion, there was no visual signs of deterioration before the disc was burned, only after the passage of time. I finally reviewed my entire collection and found that I had 125 of the Optical Quantum "Value" discs. 18 of them were unwatchable. Could have been 1 25 pc cake box that was bad.

Here is a picture.

[jdobbs]

Wow... that looks terrible.

[Ch3vr0n]

holy crap. Looks like someone took an eraser marker and went to town on the disc looks like an mountain imo. Even my oldest discs don't look like that on the cheapest TDK media

[jdobbs]

It looks like something you might have left in the basement before it flooded.

[CV91913]

It looks like something you might have left in the basement before it flooded.
Yes, it's pretty wierd. These backups are stored at room temp in individual cases. Maybe should try flooded basement...wait...no basement. :)

[Ghitulescu]

Now you can better "value" the recordables :)
Hopefully it had no personal, unique and irreplaceable, memories.

[laserfan]

Now you can better "value" the recordables :)
Hopefully it had no personal, unique and irreplaceable, memories.
For those we use M-DISC with (I guess only) LG drives. Last 1000 years.

:)

[jdobbs]

LG drives... I've gone though 5 of them -- and never had one that lasted over a year. The only reason I kept buying them is because they were the only thing I could get at Best Buy. I switched to Pioneer, and ordered online.

Undoubtedly I do a lot more burns than most people -- but a year? LG for me, never again.

[gonca]

LG drives are okay for ripping, saves the wear and tear on my PIONEER which is used 99% of the time for burning only.

[Lowpro]

Your results may vary naturally, but I purchased a LG BE12LU38 (http://www.lg.com/us/data-storage/lg-BE12LU38) (...using eSATA connection) back in October 2012 and since that time have used the drive to rip and back up 810 out of the 1,053 discs in my Blu-ray collection. Once re-authoring (...never allow audio/video to be encoded, no exceptions) I'm burning to BD-25 or BD-50 for playback in my Sony Blu-ray changers, the original discs being stored in their respective packaging and serving as my backup copies. Considering the performance I've gotten I now coin my LG as the energizer bunny of Blu-ray drives which has no signs of letting up quietly purring like a kitten with every burn. In fact, it's performed so well I purchased a second one come the day this one ever gives out on me for whatever reason.

[jdobbs]

I hope it works for many years to come. But you're talking about one -- I'm talking about five, count 'em, five failed drives. The latest one was a WH14NS40, I can say so because the useless boat-anchor is still laying under my desk after I replaced it two weeks ago with the Pioneer. It was manufactured in October, 2013 according to the label.

I have a couple of others still in use -- they will read but won't burn without errors. That's the same problem I've had with all of them.

I have a Pioneer external BDXL drive that has worked for a long time now. That's why I decided on Pioneer for the internal replacement.

[Lowpro]

I hope it works for many years to come. But you're talking about one -- I'm talking about five, count 'em, five failed drives. The latest one was a WH14NS40, I can say so because the useless boat-anchor is still laying under my desk after I replaced it last week.

I have a couple of others still in use -- that can still read but won't burn.

That's why I opened my remarks with "your results may vary" and who knows, perhaps the particular model I purchased has a lower failure rate than other models. That being said, if I had your experience I'd switch brands too.

[jdobbs]

Ok, I vented on LG -- but we're off-topic so I guess we'd better get back on track.

[laserfan]

Nah, this is fun. I got a WH16NS40 this spring to burn M-DISCS and it's worked-out just as well as the other 4 or 5 LG drives I have here going back to 2007, most of which include HD-DVD capability though not BD-writeability of course until more recently. They've all been (and remain) perfect so I think you must either be really hard on them or otherwise have just had bad luck.

[CV91913]

Nah, this is fun. I got a WH16NS40 this spring to burn M-DISCS and it's worked-out just as well as the other 4 or 5 LG drives I have here going back to 2007, most of which include HD-DVD capability though not BD-writeability of course until more recently. They've all been (and remain) perfect so I think you must either be really hard on them or otherwise have just had bad luck.
I guess I must have bad luck with LG burners as well. Have burned 300-400 BDs in the last 3 years and am working on my 3rd burner.

[Kerry56]

I have an LG GGW-H20L that has never given any problems. Of course, it was an early model, and cost $200 when new. Using a Pioneer 207MBK most of the time now.

On the topic of poor media, all of my Ritek discs became unreadable after a few years. The Memorex Riteks lasted three years, and my only Ridata disc lasted four. All were stored in individual cases within a cabinet I built to hold media, so no direct sunlight or poor conditions of any kind.

None of my Verbatim or FTI/Falcon BD discs have deteriorated.

[jdobbs]

I've been using Ritek and Titan for about 6 years now. I have used Optical Quantum in the past, but it's been a while. I have yet to have a disc go bad. I've had a few that were bad out of the package, but that's a less than 1% (probably closer to .1%). I guess it could be just good luck... I generally buy them from Meritline -- not sure if that makes a difference.

[Ch3vr0n]

hard to believe u guys are so unlucky with LG drives. The ondest still working drive i have is BH08 and that one would still be in use if i hadn't swapped it out for BH16. LG's never let me down. Drives last for years and i burn hundreds of discs a year.

[jdobbs]

Hope you continue to have good luck with them. But I'll never buy another one.

[Asmodian]

I had that experience with Lite-On, every Lite-On drive I purchased died in a few years. They were cheap though! I too have switched to LG with much better results, no optical drives have died since, though I also use them significantly less now with the price of flash so low.

All burned DVDs or blurays will be unreadable in 10 years, even the expensive media (unless M-Disc, maybe). At least all my burned CDs and DVDs have gone bad, maybe it was those Lite-On drives that burned them? This is stored in folders in the dark, sunlight can kill a disc in a week. Some blurays are already going bad at only ~3 years old (these were Ritek media burned on LG drives, but it was good for those 3 years).

What is everyone doing with so many burned discs in this day and age? I hope not long term archiving?

[laserfan]

I bought M-Disc for long-term archiving of data onto its BD-25 disc, which is so far adequate to keep all family documents and photos on. We have just a handful of home movies I would like to save "forever" on M-Disc but haven't gotten around to that yet. I just bought a 15-pack (25GB 4x) and I think they list for $75 bucks so yes, at $5 a pop they aren't cheap.

But if I were a home videographer with priceless home movies I would not archive these in any other way.

As for "why so many discs" when I first got-into making DVDs I did so of everything including lots of TV that I will never watch again. Not a great expenditure of time I suppose but it's been fun and I've learned a lot.

[Emulgator]

After looking for less expensive alternatives to Verbatim,
Ritek BD-R 25GB seem to be quite safe on my side.
Not that many written, but not a single coaster.
Drives: Pioneer BDR208-EBK, Matsushita BD-MLT UJ-240AS

[laserfan]

After looking for less expensive alternatives to Verbatim,
Ritek BD-R 25GB seem to be quite safe on my side.
Not that many written, but not a single coaster.
Drives: Pioneer BDR208-EBK, Matsushita BD-MLT UJ-240AS

I agree. All my BD-Rs are Ritek, labeled Memorex from Imation Enterprises "Made in Taiwan" and they've been 100% reliable for me.

[Stereodude]

After looking for less expensive alternatives to Verbatim,
Ritek BD-R 25GB seem to be quite safe on my side.
Not that many written, but not a single coaster.
Drives: Pioneer BDR208-EBK, Matsushita BD-MLT UJ-240AS
How much are you paying for the Verbatim discs?

[worknstiff]

RE: How much are you paying for the Verbatim discs?

Amazon, 44.00 for 50. Free shipping. You can't beat 88c each for Verbatim quality.

[Sharc]

RE: How much are you paying for the Verbatim discs?

Amazon, 44.00 for 50. Free shipping. You can't beat 88c each for Verbatim quality.
Did you check the manufacturer of these "Verbatim Quality" discs? There seem to be various, not all with 1st class reputation, at least from the past DVD times ......

[worknstiff]

RE: Verbatim Quality 1st class reputation, at least from the past DVD times

Yes I know about the AZO dye and Made In India controversy, but the ones I receive from Amazon all have the MFG in Taiwan and have burned 100%. I was getting maybe 1 out of 10 bad with the Optical Quantum BD-R's and decided to go back to Verbatim only.

[jdobbs]

RE: How much are you paying for the Verbatim discs?

Amazon, 44.00 for 50. Free shipping. You can't beat 88c each for Verbatim quality.Really? Hmm... I need to check on that. I just paid $36 for 50 Riteks at Meritline recently. 16c a disc isn't a bad premium to pay for Verbatim quality.

I've been using Verbatim DL BDs for series backups (where I backup multiple BDs or DVDs onto a single disc) -- they're selling for about $119 for a box of 50 at Amazon. That's not bad either.

[worknstiff]

Yeah, I used to buy the 20 pack Verbatim BD-R DL for 50.00 with free shipping from Japan. The only thing I didn't like was that they had the white inkjet coating on top and it took 3 weeks to arrive, lol. I really love that BD Rebuilder does 3D now and I only use one of those precious 2.50 disks occasionally. Thanks again jdobbs for helping me with my expensive 3D addiction.

[Rich86]

I realize this is an ancient thread, but I figured I would post a recent experience anyway.
Every Optodisc (OTCBDR-001-000) I have ever burned has now gone totally bad. Thankfully it appears it was only a single cakebox of 25 media. These appear slightly blue on the data side and were burned during 2011 with a Lite-On burner. I expect this was probably the first batch of printable BDR media I ever bought and used. Every one of these was perfectly fine after I burned them and for quite a while afterwards. But the other day I pulled out one of them to view and when it refused to even be recognized by multiple blu-ray players and my tower computer, I decided to check them all . . 100% bad and trash. Just a heads up for folks who have used this brand media and have anything important stored on them . . .
I've been using Ritek printable BDR media for over 10 years with no issues, but who knows what is around the corner . .

[stonesfan129]

I always use the SmartBuy brand ones. I want to say these are made by Ritek. I write them at 2x on my Pioneer BD212V burner. I run one of those OWC Mercury external 3.0 USB enclosures with it. I've had very good success and these are much cheaper than the Verbatim media which is just rebranded CMC now, not the quality Mitsubishi stuff they used to make in Japan.

99% of all my stuff is stuff I've gotten through my library anyway so I can always check it out again at no extra cost if needed.

[stonesfan129]

I have had a few Verbatim BD25 go bad in the past. Not many, but a few. The SmartBuy ones I've burned within the past year or two have still been fine. All my other Verbatims have been fine.

[Lucius Snow]

Take the media code VERBATIMe for single layer and VERNATIMf for dual layer.

[StainlessS]

...
I run one of those OWC Mercury external 3.0 USB enclosures with it.
...

I got 2 of those, nice solid construction, very happy with them (except price a bit steep).

[stonesfan129]

I got 2 of those, nice solid construction, very happy with them (except price a bit steep).

I picked mine up a few years back when they were cheaper. It seems like ever since Pioneer got out of the game, the prices of all these BD-ROM drives and accessories has just skyrocketed. I thought LG was out now too? I remember when you could buy a new internal drive for ~$80 new. I thought I heard something about them being hoarded in Japan or China, not entirely sure.

HDD storage/home NAS is a no-go for me. I've never had one last more than a couple years unless it was just cold storage for music (still have a 750gb HGST out of a laptop from like 15 years ago that is still going strong).

I don't want to pay for a lot of new Blu-ray titles (especially when they want almost $50 for pre-orders) so keeping BD-Rs and writers around saves me tons of money. My Pioneer 212 did die over the summer, just doesn't power on at all. I'm not sure what's wrong with it, can't get replacements anymore. I still have a Pioneer XD07 USB and an LG internal (inside that OWC Mercury enclosure) that have been fine though.