madVR Options Explained

[dRumMzZ]

is about HDR.

this decoder is needed: https://abload.de/img/mvcdecodermdahd.png

Thank you, it's finally working!
I'll have to waiit till tomorow to test it on the Rift, but MPC is now showing top and bottom.
Once again, thank you dude! :D

[Asmodian]

Finally updated for madVR v0.92.9, new compression artifact removal and screenshot configuration options.

I also added some lower power level versions of my settings.bin file:
--Links out of date, please use the links in the third post--

Heater is the equivalent of my old settings but now I am using a slightly lower power version I called Max Quality here. Feedback would be greatly appreciated, especially for High and Low power. My GPU downclocks when below Max Quality so I doubt the profiles for different resolutions are all at similar power usage.

[Manni]

@Madshi

Is MadVR able to passthrough HLG? I'm implementing HLG support on the older JVCs at the moment (testing with my 2015 rs500) and when I try to play an HLG file I get the same magenta bug as when trying to play 4K60p HDR10 files (as you might remember, I found a workaround for that which is to play 4K60p files without HDR Metadata passthrough checked). That doesn't work with HLG files.

Also the file metadata is changed. For example, when I play this LG demo file: http://4kmedia.org/lg-cymatic-jazz-hdr-hlg-uhd-4k-demo/ from the UB900, the Vertex correctly reports:
HDR BT2020 HLG BT2100 (all metadata to zero) and if I apply an HLG calibration, the picture looks fine.

In case it help, here is the captured HDR metadata in that case: 87:01:1a:5b:03:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00

If I play the same file (or the webm version from youtube), the HTPC sends ST2084 instead of HLG and I get the magenta bug. I tried to disable HDR Metadata passthrough manually in MadVR, that doesn't change anything. Of course the metadata is wrong in both case (ST2084 reported).

Any thoughts? Let me know if you'd like any further info.

[nevcairiel]

HLG is not supported yet. madVR doesn't currently even know if a video is HLG. Also, you're in the wrong thread. :)

[Manni]

HLG is not supported yet. Also, you're in the wrong thread. :)

Thanks! wrong thread indeed. Does HLG support need to be added to LAV first? If yes let me know if you need any help with testing.

[nevcairiel]

Once madshi expresses interest on working on HLG, LAV will have to output the information that it is in fact HLG content (unfortunately the value Microsoft defined for that has already been used by madVR for ST2084, so its not as easy as just exporting it already). Fortunately HLG doesn't need any further metadata then that.

[Manni]

Once madshi expresses interest on working on HLG, LAV will have to output the information that it is in fact HLG content (unfortunately the value Microsoft defined for that has already been used by madVR for ST2084, so its not as easy as just exporting it already). Fortunately HLG doesn't need any further metadata then that.

Great, thanks, I posted a query in MadVR's thread pointing to this post.

[Asmodian]

Updated for madVR v0.92.10. Removed NNEDI3 and reduce compression artifacts can be run for free as part of NGU Sharp high (RCA at medium) or very high (RCA at high)!

[symus35]

Hello

what settings/ profile would you recommand for that :

W10 last update
Nvidia driver last update
gtx 1060 6Go
AMD FX8320
16 go RAM
Last madvr
EPson 1080p projector.

Sources : blu-ray only.

Thank you :)

[Asmodian]

My low power settings should be a good starting point for a 1060 6GB.

[symus35]

Thanks for the reply.
Will try it .

What uoscaling and doubling does it use? And refinements?

[Asmodian]

It uses NGU Sharp for image upscaling and NGU AA for chroma upscaling.

No refinements, I only use refinements for specific sources that need it. Some deblocking for SD profiles.

I just updated them for madVR v0.92.10 so get the new one(s) if you downloaded it a few minutes ago.

[symus35]

I ll try and let you know how much power it uses

[symus35]

Hi

just tested low power profile with a standard blu-ray.

GPU usage : 30%.

[Asmodian]

That seems good for a 1080p display, 1080p is much easier so you might be able to use Max Quality.

[symus35]

I tried these :

Chroma upscaling :

NGU Sharp High Quality

image downscaling :

SSIM 1D 100 ( scale un LL check AR filter : relaxed)

Image doubling :

NGU Sharp -> luma : high CHroma : high

Doubling : always , supersampling


And thats it ( 60% GPU) 1080p60

Are those correct?

I'm just discovering madvr in depth.i'm not familiar with it


PS : you guys dont use upscale refinements? why not? aren't those any good?

[Asmodian]

I wouldn't recommend super sampling for no reason. :p

Chroma Upscaling:
I use NGU AA high

Image Doubling:
I use 2x and 4x so it would only run for 540p and below on a 1080p screen. I can also see using down to 1.2x (let madVR decide) but super sampling is rarely useful and actually causes harm.

Upscaling Refinements:
Using super sampling to allow sharpening at higher resolutions before downscaling again is the one time I like super sampling. I only use these for specific sources. Some sources I don't use any, some I sharpen, and some I use soften edges. There are none I would use all the time. Feel free to set one if you like it but do not use too many at once and remember, often "less is more". An good alternative without super sampling is to use image enhancements instead, it offers the same shaders but run at native resolution for a stronger effect.

[symus35]

Thanks

i was under the impression that it was more efficient tu sharpen an image once upscaled before downscale. In the case of 1080p on a 1080p projector, it means doubling. or supersampling?

What is the difference anyway?

[Asmodian]

Super sampling (in madVR) simply means the output resolution is the same as the input resolution. Doubling is more general, anytime the resolution is doubled before down or upscaling to the output resolution.

[iSeries]

In the calibration tab it says one 3dlut to cover all gamuts is fine. I have a bt2020 3dlut so is it ok to use that for all? I notice reds look slightly darker with this vs a rec709 3dlut when playing bluray

[huhn]

if i'm not mistaken you always need a bt 709 3d lut but a lot has changed.

[Asmodian]

Yes it is fine but that doesn't mean it is optimal. This depends on how linear your display is within the gamut.

It sounds like your BT.2020 3DLUT has a bit more saturated red than your BT.709 one. Without measurements it is hard to know which one is more accurate but I suspect it is the BT.709 one.

When using a 3DLUT for another gamut madVR first uses pixel shader math to convert the source to the other gamut and then runs that through the 3DLUT.

[iSeries]

Thanks guys i've loaded 3dluts for all gamuts

[Smallville]

My low power settings should be a good starting point for a 1060 6GB.

HI, can you pls give-me an help how to setup my madVR v0.92.10 fresh install ? I dont have change anything only setup madVR on MPC-HC.

I have an Gtx 1050 TI 4GB OC gigabyte and connect to a 4k lg, only use to see 1080p and 720p sources.

Thx

[Asmodian]

My low power settings.bin would be a good place to start. It has profiles you do not need but you can simply ignore them.

[Smallville]

My low power settings.bin would be a good place to start. It has profiles you do not need but you can simply ignore them.

Thx, i have try your low power and i have an avergae 21ms rendering, so i try your max and reduce the image upscaling to high and chroma to high quality and have an average 32 ms, im using one 1080p file source full screen (tv show). is there anything i can do to improve or is the best my card gives ?

2 more questions pls ;)

1 - On your profiles you have the 3DLUT files setup how can i do this ? or what i setup here ?

2- on the tv side its better i select my hdmi port has pc source or leave on default ? If i choose the pc side i lost the hdr effect from tv, my tv is an LG 40UJ3634V

THx 4 all

[Asmodian]

Test with 720p content, it is more difficult on a 1080p TV.

1) This is a very large topic. Check out the display calibration thread (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1744236#post1744236). I really like Calman for calibration software but it is expensive and you need a meter. DisplayCal is a great free option but you still need a meter. The i1 Display Pro is a good cheap option, ideally combined with an i1 Pro 2.

2) I would use PC (to get 4:4:4 chroma) but I am not sure what you mean by "HDR effect". If it isn't only for HDR content then I would not want it anyway.

[White Eagle]

Hi.
how to create a 3DLut profile for madVR with sw CalMAN 5 for Business , Some guides, tutorials, to suggest for beginners on the subject ?

[Smallville]

Test with 720p content, it is more difficult on a 1080p TV.

1) This is a very large topic. Check out the display calibration thread (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1744236#post1744236). I really like Calman for calibration software but it is expensive and you need a meter. DisplayCal is a great free option but you still need a meter. The i1 Display Pro is a good cheap option, ideally combined with an i1 Pro 2.

2) I would use PC (to get 4:4:4 chroma) but I am not sure what you mean by "HDR effect". If it isn't only for HDR content then I would not want it anyway.

Thx for your explanation, im thinking in buy a meter for calibration my tv and monitors etc ... Is the spyder 5 good ? I only want good colors for cinema and play games on tv and monitor.... what you think about Spyder 5 meter ?

Thx

[mytbyte]

Thx for your explanation, im thinking in buy a meter for calibration my tv and monitors etc ... Is the spyder 5 good ? I only want good colors for cinema and play games on tv and monitor.... what you think about Spyder 5 meter ?

Thx

I'd get the XRite Colormunki Display, same HW as i1 Display Pro only slower (but not dead slow, actually it's pretty normal)...however, for your PC monitor, your games and apps need to support system color management or LUTs to take advantage of the meter but it's not ideal as you may get color banding if your monitor is very off standard...it's best to just calibrate any monitor controls there are to their best ability and leave it at that...

[Smallville]

I'd get the XRite Colormunki Display, same HW as i1 Display Pro only slower (but not dead slow, actually it's pretty normal)...however, for your PC monitor, your games and apps need to support system color management or LUTs to take advantage of the meter but it's not ideal as you may get color banding if your monitor is very off standard...it's best to just calibrate any monitor controls there are to their best ability and leave it at that...

Thx for your answer.

I try calibrate my monitor with controls they stay nice but.... if i can get better why not ? But i really want to calibrate my LG tv 4K to wacth movies from my pc connect do hdmi cable some time i dont have the best black color or the best ambient light ... not the best picture .... what i can use to cablibrate my TV ? The XRite Colormunki Display do the work on the tv ?


Thx

[huhn]

a meter is used to read the image and without knowable and proper Tv settings you will not get proper results.

[mytbyte]

Thx for your answer.

I try calibrate my monitor with controls they stay nice but.... if i can get better why not ? But i really want to calibrate my LG tv 4K to wacth movies from my pc connect do hdmi cable some time i dont have the best black color or the best ambient light ... not the best picture .... what i can use to cablibrate my TV ? The XRite Colormunki Display do the work on the tv ?


Thx

Since I forgot we are on a MadVR-related thread, yes, it is possible to use free DisplayCAL software to create a LUT to use with MadVR, the software will guide you to set basic white balance and brightness on the menus of the TV and, after many automatic measurement, it will produce a MadVR LUT...but even for that, some read of tutorials is required (there are some around)...sadly, you won't get good black from an LG unless it's an OLED, however you calibrate

[Audionut]

sadly, you won't get good black from an LG unless it's an OLED, however you calibrate

To nitpick, I like to watch things in a dark room at a 35 degree viewing angle. I don't like peak nit of 120 during these viewing periods as it's simply for to bright for my eyes. Movies aren't so bad I guess, but the TV is linked to a htpc.

I find 52 nits suitable. It's a slight reduction in contrast ratio but nets a black level of 0.045 cd/m2. This black level is probably just inside the 'good' region. I hate grey more then I despise the low peak nit.

[mytbyte]

@audionut: you aren't nitpicky enough, you should really drop it to 48 nits to match the cinema calibration standard...:D

[Isley]

@Asmodian

Thank for compiling all this useful info. I have a question about your settings.bin file : seems the SD content I have is mostly European PAL DVDs, are the auto-select rules going to work well since PAL and NTSC dvds don't have the same resolution and framerate ?

[Asmodian]

Yes, all my profiles use SD for anything equal to or below 1024x576 to account for widescreen PAL DVDs. :)

[Asmodian]

The XRite Colormunki Display do the work on the tv ?

Yes, these meters work as well for TVs as for monitors. I also recommend the colormunki over the spyder but the spyder 5 is acceptable. I think the i1d3 is worth it over the colormunki but go with XRite if you can.

I find 52 nits suitable. It's a slight reduction in contrast ratio but nets a black level of 0.045 cd/m2. This black level is probably just inside the 'good' region. I hate grey more then I despise the low peak nit.

I like 100 nits (103 nits at last calibration) for my dark room viewing, 120 is a too bright in a dark room but 80 or below is less vibrant. Of course, with OLED, I get 0.000 cd/m2 blacks. :D

[Audionut]

@audionut: you aren't nitpicky enough, you should really drop it to 48 nits to match the cinema calibration standard...:D

A recent new GPU resulted in the iDisplay3 being removed from storage, resulted in the partner rolling her eyes with an exasperated "omg this takes ages".

That standard is exactly what I targeted when I realized I needed something to help me with the facts of my shitty display. "It's a cinema display". :rolleyes:


I like 100 nits (103 nits at last calibration) for my dark room viewing, 120 is a too bright in a dark room but 80 or below is less vibrant. Of course, with OLED, I get 0.000 cd/m2 blacks. :D

OLED is the next upgrade. I'm wondering if I'll need sunglasses for the HDR aspect (700+ nits). :cool: I think I'll need a liaison officer first to help me run it past the minister of finance.

[Isley]

Yes, all my profiles use SD for anything equal to or below 1024x576 to account for widescreen PAL DVDs. :)
Good thinking :)

Another question : I noticed all your profiles had deinterlacing turned off. Does it mean you do the deinterlacing with the decoder? In my case it would be MPC's internal LAV filter.

[huhn]

keep deinterlancing on.
when lavfilter is deonterlancing madVR will disable it automaticly so you can force film mode in madVR with no harm so if the source is telecine you can disable deinterlancing in lavfilter and you are good to go.
DXVA deinterlancing is currently not that good so using softwere deinterlancing from lavfilter is currently not a bad idea.

[mytbyte]

OLED is the next upgrade. I'm wondering if I'll need sunglasses for the HDR aspect (700+ nits). :cool:

I doubt it, the devil is in the highlights, not the whole picture :D

[Asmodian]

Another question : I noticed all your profiles had deinterlacing turned off. Does it mean you do the deinterlacing with the decoder? In my case it would be MPC's internal LAV filter.

Ouch! Are they? I will need to fix that. I don't usually watch interlaced video and I recently had a source that was flagged as interlaced but wasn't so I turned it off for that. I must have forgotten to turn it back on before saving my new settings files. :o

Usually I do want deinterlacing set to the default settings.

[Asmodian]

I have updated the setting.bin files.

[xx2000xx]

I have updated the setting.bin files.

I just saw that and a few days ago I was going to blast you with a lot of questions due to the fact we have the same television that has a lot of quirks, hard as hell to calibrate (you took out the 3d/cms I see), and "PC" mode is a complete mess on many levels.

I'm going to find a slide first because I think you might be shocked on how 2.4/BT.1888 crushes blacks even with +1 brit and 20 point IRE 5 luminance set high also, although I'm sure you calibrated and mess with settings non-stop on madvr/mpc and I bet you're coming from a plasma too but OLED is another beast.

With changes the .bin quite a bit it raises questions on top of questions I have with the prior .bin along with OLED/Nvidia/MadVR that I'll think about asking the best ones as I consider you along with Warner306 top of the food chain when it comes to knowledge on setting up something very complex trying to perfect the best possible settings.

[Asmodian]

I am happy to answer OLED calibration settings here or even better the Calibration Thread (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=172783) in General.

I still use the 3DLUTs myself, I simply removed them from the settings.bin because users couldn't save their settings without deleting or changing the entry for my display due to missing my 3DLUTs. I have found that the newest Calman is much better at creating 3DLUTs for madVR, it is very good now without a lot of tweaking needed. Of course it is pretty expensive, but it has been a relief because I was never quite satisfied with the behavior near black when using ArgyllCMS, Argyll is very good otherwise but it takes a lot more experimentation. I did find a significant improvement near black after switching to a calibrated i1d3 instead of using my i1pro2 (obvious in retrospect), and a calibration is lot faster too.

For my calibration 17 is crushed into 16 but otherwise it is very good, I am quite happy with it.

The biggest requirement I discovered is you have to defeat the forced low power mode, if the brightness doesn't change enough for 60s (or similar) the TV lowers brightness which completely messes up a calibration. I play a video on repeat behind madTPG to keep the TV awake. I also use a smallish pattern and very low brightness (OLED on 18 for ~100 cd/m^2 at 100% white) which keeps the other power limiters from kicking in.

edit: calibrating this OLED has been much easier than plasma was. :p

[xx2000xx]

I am happy to answer OLED calibration settings here or even better the Calibration Thread (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=172783) in General.

I still use the 3DLUTs myself, I simply removed them from the settings.bin because users couldn't save their settings without deleting or changing the entry for my display due to missing my 3DLUTs. I have found that the newest Calman is much better at creating 3DLUTs for madVR, it is very good now without a lot of tweaking needed. Of course it is pretty expensive, but it has been a relief because I was never quite satisfied with the behavior near black when using ArgyllCMS, Argyll is very good otherwise but it takes a lot more experimentation. I did find a significant improvement near black after switching to a calibrated i1d3 instead of using my i1pro2 (obvious in retrospect), and a calibration is lot faster too.

For my calibration 17 is crushed into 16 but otherwise it is very good, I am quite happy with it.

The biggest requirement I discovered is you have to defeat the forced low power mode, if the brightness doesn't change enough for 60s (or similar) the TV lowers brightness which completely messes up a calibration. I play a video on repeat behind madTPG to keep the TV awake. I also use a smallish pattern and very low brightness (OLED on 18 for ~100 cd/m^2 at 100% white) which keeps the other power limiters from kicking in.

edit: calibrating this OLED has been much easier than plasma was. :p

I am happy to answer OLED calibration settings here or even better the Calibration Thread (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=172783) in General.

I still use the 3DLUTs myself, I simply removed them from the settings.bin because users couldn't save their settings without deleting or changing the entry for my display due to missing my 3DLUTs. I have found that the newest Calman is much better at creating 3DLUTs for madVR, it is very good now without a lot of tweaking needed. Of course it is pretty expensive, but it has been a relief because I was never quite satisfied with the behavior near black when using ArgyllCMS, Argyll is very good otherwise but it takes a lot more experimentation. I did find a significant improvement near black after switching to a calibrated i1d3 instead of using my i1pro2 (obvious in retrospect), and a calibration is lot faster too.

For my calibration 17 is crushed into 16 but otherwise it is very good, I am quite happy with it.

The biggest requirement I discovered is you have to defeat the forced low power mode, if the brightness doesn't change enough for 60s (or similar) the TV lowers brightness which completely messes up a calibration. I play a video on repeat behind madTPG to keep the TV awake. I also use a smallish pattern and very low brightness (OLED on 18 for ~100 cd/m^2 at 100% white) which keeps the other power limiters from kicking in.

edit: calibrating this OLED has been much easier than plasma was. :p

I don't have any experience with calibration and always tweaked D-nice's settings in the past with my Panny's as he might be one of the best calibrators in the world but nobody is leaking his OLED settings yet.

I was going to ask what you used but a few days ago I decided that because I'm inexperienced and using Ted's calibration he recommends X-Rite i1Display Pro or the latest Calman that I think can do DV too, but we are looking at $250+ when out of the box it's pretty damn great especially on warm 2 vs the plasmas which I know that is how it's intended but it was just too brown and the blues/whites bugged me to the point where I just settled on Warm 1.

However the OLED, even on 35 OLED light which is about the point where you don't get that ABL at all unless you have a static image for 1 minute and then it'll kick in. You can disable that too if you wish as there's a thread on AVS on how to do it.

I did the test pattern to hit 16 and then checked the boxes pattern but when somebody posted this: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/2579537-lg-oleds-how-enhance-near-black-detail-3.html#post46798617 - it changed a lot of people's opinions that now 2.2 was the way to go because even with their increased values in bt.1886 it still crushed it and it's a bitch to calibrate correctly on 2.4 with this set. The rtings.com guy whose calibration I didn't like cause it was too dark with settings that nobody uses like 95 contrast actually nailed it on my set.

I don't have any tools and there are only a few true things you can manually do while keeping settings pretty much standard I switched back to 2.2 which I hated before and thought skin color was better at 1886 but switched to 23 OLED, 50 bright, 85 contrast, and not adjusting the 5 point scale and now after a week I'm used to it and it's better for me to have a low OLED because I'm using this as a PC monitor 24/7.

I didn't mean to turn this into a calibration deal but after reading more the past hour I'm a bit lost on the famous TV/PC conversion that may think I was doing it wrong with reading people's comments in the calibration threads which is a lot more technical than your standard threads. Although while I've been typing this short story without asking basic questions on settings I'm now more interested in the calibration side of things and even if it's $250 it's worth it until about 8 months when my tabs from FireFox burn in :-) I keep on forgetting to turn on full screen and it seems you have to baby this more than even the plasmas so I'm using about 20 techniques I've picked up over the years trying to prevent it.

What would you recommend for me to get? Calman's software is confusing and which one to get but on top of that I think you need their $600 tool on top of the software which isn't going to happen. If Cal6 is the only one that supports DV and HLG I think and probably HDR10+ while others don't then forget about it because I'm content with SDR which will be my primary as I'm not that big into Movies unless there was black disc based media that's cheap for ripping 4k, although I should probably go through my 100 blu-ray rips that I have yet to watch which most are probably trash now due to disc rot thanks to companies putting out shitty discs and at the time nobody knew about it and they were well over a dollar back then too. It might not be worth it to get anything else really unless one of the open source people will support it but I really have to do some research after I'm content with this OLED. I'm also a 100% PC guy so recommendations from other people might not apply to me unlike your suggestions.

Only Skylake here but my 970 picks up a few though Amazon, Netflix won't, or I have to d/l some shit like edge or something and Win10 LTSB is bad enough and no linux support. Then with the war coming up they are dropping HDR to HDR10+ so LG won't be able to get it but figured the PC would pick up everything so I can use my 7.1 surround so I guess I'll have to IPT most of this stuff. Anandtech just did an article about what a mess HDR on the PC is: https://www.anandtech.com/show/12171/a-budget-home-theater-pc-setup-4k-hdr-uhd-bluray-and-more

It sucks that my plasma's PSU blew up because next year's LG OLEDS will be a lot easier to calibrate it seems: https://referencehometheater.com/2018/commentary/what-is-a-3d-lut/

Back to my point so I can wrap up this wall of text. This is the correct way right?

(madVR) PC levels (0-255) -> (GPU) Limited Range RGB (TV) Output as RGB 16-235

I use 4:4:4 chroma obviously but when switching to a video go to RGB Limited, make sure LG is set to low black, MadVR to default but also keep it 8 bit?

Rant over. I didn't even cover a lot of settings I'm curious about using the LG with Nvidia regarding settings on both using MadVR and your MadVR settings on top of those including some conflicting things you're using compared to th is guide: https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188

I'll get to them later but because my Panny blew suddenly I didn't have time to pour in the massive amount of hours of research and had to pull the trigger on BF and because my old Denon is 1080p I'm reading up on both now. Although HDMI to TV then another HDMI to the receiver works just fine and not being able to see the menu isn't a big deal because I know every single setting by heart now I've been in the market of upgrading anyways and it still seems like Denon's x3300w at minimum is the way to go. The 4000 line, even refurb from A4L is still too expensive but I need to figure out all the scaling stuff and if we're forced to use shitty smart apps then I'll have to get the new EARC to output more than DD+ instead of raw 7.1.

[cr0n=0sTT88]

Hi,

I have a projector JVC x500. This is a projector 4K with hdmi 1.4. Not compatible with HDR.
I have a graphic card Intel HD 4600 with hdmi 1.4. No compatible with HDR.
I use JRiver MC.

When I use the option of conversion HDR=>SDR i have a problem.

when I play a MKV 4K with Red October HQ my GPU is at 100% of load and the movie looks like a robot.
If I buy a new graphic card with more powerfull GPU is it possible solve this? GTX 1060 3GB is enough?
I have a CPU 4790K but my GPU is only a HD 4600.

thank you!!!

[jmonier]

Generally, 3gb is not enough for 4k.

[cr0n=0sTT88]

Generally, 3gb is not enough for 4k.

is better a GTX 1060 with 6GB to play the contents smoothly? :thanks: