madVR Options Explained

[takenori]

cheers for all the help :D mayble ill look for the cheapest one later.
does calibration needs to be done on a regular basis or its a one time thing only?


another thing, i had sets madvr dislay mode as 2560x1440p120, 2560x1440p100, 2560x1440p144,
but when playing 30 and 60fps video this what i get
https://i.imgur.com/oDBCpUK.jpg
madvr only change composition rate, display still at the native rr, and and to be sure, i run them with reclock and it reported that my display still not changed to 120hz.

[huhn]

windows 7?

[takenori]

its win10

[Asmodian]

does calibration needs to be done on a regular basis or its a one time thing only?

It is a one time thing, displays do change some over time so re-calibrating once a year or so is good, but compared to the un-calibrated state these are very minor changes.

madvr only change composition rate, display still at the native rr, and and to be sure, i run them with reclock and it reported that my display still not changed to 120hz.

Do you have G-sync enabled? G-sync and madVR do not interact well. It would do this if you had the "Preferred refresh rate ([Display Name])" set to "Highest available". Set it to "Application-controlled" if you want madVR to use a set refresh rate with G-sync enabled (but you don't want G-sync enabled...).

With G-sync enabled at all the refresh rate is a little soft and you cannot use custom timings, but you can create a setting for your player in "Program Settings" and set "Monitor Technology" to "Fixed Refresh". This helps a little but it isn't the same as disabling G-sync completely.

[huhn]

win 10 composition issues are related to the windows version amd GPU driver.

if you are not at the newest version give that version a try bit may not help.

if you are using 2 screen at the same time try it with one to see if that fix it.

windows 10 composition rate is not as broken as in windows 7 but it is still problematic.

[takenori]

im using nvidia and my monitor is a freesync 2. freesync set to off already

[cr0n=0sTT88]

When does the imageupscalling option work?
We assume that I play the movie in full screen.

If I have a movie of 600x400 and the screen resolution is fullhd, does imageupscalling work here?

If I have a fullhd movie and the screen resolution is also fullhd, does imageupscalling work here?

and the chromaupsamsung function? Does it work the same as imageupscalling?

NGU is always the best algorithm? for image/chroma upscalling I say.
I want to use MadVR with a projector and I need configure it.

My projector is JVC x500 and has the function of scaling the image input to 4K. I do not know if it is better to enter the signal to the projector in fullhd format or 4K format from windows. If I play a fullhd movie and it is upscaled to 4K via madVR, is it better for JVC? or is better play direct in FullHD from madVR and send the fullhd signal direct to JVC? JVC upscalling 4K or MadVR upscalling 4K? this is the question. What is better for the best image quality?

sorry for my poor english.

Thank you!

[Asmodian]

Image upscaling works when the image needs to be upscaled.

Yes, 600x400 to 1920x1080 requires upscaling.

No, 1920x1080 does not require upscaling. However, you can have madVR double the resolution and then downscale it again if you enable super-sampling with one of the doubling algorithms. I don't recommend this.

Chroma upscaling is a more complicated concept. Almost all consumer video has 4:2:0 chroma subsampling which means that FHD video has the luma at 1920x1080 but both chroma layers at 960x540. To convert to RGB the chroma and luma resolutions must match and chroma upscaling is what madVR uses to do it.

NGU is very good but best is not something we believe in here. ;)

I would use madVR to upscale to 4K, assuming your GPU is strong enough, madVR's upscaling is very high quality with a lot of options to adjust it to be ideal for your eyes, projector, and screen.

[cr0n=0sTT88]

Image upscaling works when the image needs to be upscaled.

Yes, 600x400 to 1920x1080 requires upscaling.

No, 1920x1080 does not require upscaling. However, you can have madVR double the resolution and then downscale it again if you enable super-sampling with one of the doubling algorithms. I don't recommend this.

Chroma upscaling is a more complicated concept. Almost all consumer video has 4:2:0 chroma subsampling which means that FHD video has the luma at 1920x1080 but both chroma layers at 960x540. To convert to RGB the chroma and luma resolutions must match and chroma upscaling is what madVR uses to do it.

NGU is very good but best is not something we believe in here. ;)

I would use madVR to upscale to 4K, assuming your GPU is strong enough, madVR's upscaling is very high quality with a lot of options to adjust it to be ideal for your eyes, projector, and screen.

Thank you very much for the information! I have a GTX 1060 card with 6GB of memory.

I currently use NGU standard with high quality for Image and chroma upscaling.

Apart from these 2 options, what other options can I use to improve the image quality as much as possible? Are these two options the most important in MadVR? Is it worth buying a more powerful graphic card to add more improvement options?

My projector has not HDR option and I use MadVR real-time conversion HDR to SDR option. I use this only in 4K videos. But the most of the videos that I see are fullhd and 4:2:0.

Thank you!



PS if I have a video with 4:4:4 subsampling, ¿chroma upscaling is it necessary too?
In the driver of nvidia I've selected RGB full range and 8 bits (for the projector JVC).

[huhn]

chroma is not scaled if it doesn't need scaling.

it doesn't matter what nvidia is sending your device madVR will always send RGB to the GPU driver.

[takenori]

So, about early next month i decided to get a calibration device for madvr, and right now im choosing either
X-Rite ColorMunki Display or X-Rite ColorMunki Smile.
so in terms of novice user, which should i get? im talking about know nothing, had to follow direction step by step novice. also another brands recommendation is welcome if theyre easier to use.

[e-t172]

I don't know about the ColorMunki Smile, but I can tell you the ColorMunki Display is an excellent sensor. It's the exact same hardware as the more expensive X-Rite i1 Display Pro and has the same accuracy (I have verified that by comparing measurements myself). The only difference between the ColorMunki Display and the i1 Display Pro is that the former is artificially slowed down for marketing reasons, so it takes more time to do the measurements.

[Asmodian]

Given that the Smile is marketed for "your monitor and iOS devices" I recommend against it but it is supported by DisplayCal (Argyllcms) and would probably offer decent results on a LCD with LED back-light. It does have fewer factory profiles, it only has options for LCD with CCFL back-light or LCD with LED back-light. Given that LCD with LED back-light is very common this may work fine for you but the ColorMunki comes with support for:
A refresh type display - The refresh period is measured, and the integration time adjusted appropriately. [CB2]
CRT (Hitachi CM2112MET, Diamond View 1772ie)
LCD CCFL IPS (CCFL AC EIZO HP with CORRECTION)
LCD CCFL Wide Gamut IPS (WG CCFL NEC241 271)
LCD RGB LED IPS (RGBLED HP SOYO)
LCD White LED IPS (WLED AC LG Samsung)
Projector (Marantz HP Panasonic Projectors Hybrid EDR)
OLED Family

If you need to save the money the Smile will work and probably give decent results but it isn't the most flexible option.

[huhn]

or you use the correction from the over devices.

[Klaus1189]

What are the differences of GPU flushed / not flushed, ...
I couldn't a find a explanation of that.

[Asmodian]

Not much, flushing takes time (not much) bit can help prevent problems is some situations.

[Klaus1189]

OK, thanks.

What is the difference between these flush types?
flush
flush and wait (sleep)
flush and wait (loop)

[Asmodian]

In my testing they are basically the same with the only significant difference being that without a "wait" step madVR cannot measure the rendering time.

Sleep v.s. loop seem about the same except sleep should use less power. Really I do not see any difference between them, I recommend you leave those options on default, I have not heard of changing them being helpful for at least several years. They are options to try to workaround troublesome low end hardware, if you do not have issues do not mess with them. :)

[leeperry]

Can we agree that low/low debanding is actually set-and-forget? Whenever I disable it PQ decreases but after more thorough testing(and better cables), I would say that deringer strength is too high and destroys details making it only useful on hopeless oversharpened SD content and apparently RCA@1 does wonders on anything not native resolution but I would have to run more tests. Long story short decent 720p30@1080p60 looks better with low/low debanding + RCA@1 but not deringer.

Shame I took deringer for granted for way too long but debanding is a strong asset for sure, unlike deposterizing filters in Avisynth that always did as much harm as good giving a clay look to human faces.....but then again it was all processed in 8bit duh ^^

[Asmodian]

I do agree with that, low/low has never harmed the image in anyway I could prove to myself. Also, sources with truly no banding are few and far between.

I still turn off debanding sometimes, with some UHD content. It is more that I do not see any banding and there is a small performance impact when running debanding on UHD, along with some "untouched" video placebo. :o

(untouched, except for YCbCr->RGB, NGU, 3DLUT, dithering, and whatever my TV does to it :rolleyes:).

[leeperry]

I really oughta stop taking RCA & Deringer for granted because even RCA@1 fails on grainy 720p@1080p, I guess grain means that I must A/B RCA beforehand.

I see that there are hotkeys for debander and deringer but not RCA apparently?

And still no hotkey to open the mVR config panel directly huh? Only option is to call madHcCtrl.exe editLocalSettingsDontWait then I guess?

[Warner306]

I really oughta stop taking RCA & Deringer for granted because even RCA@1 fails on grainy 720p@1080p, I guess grain means that I must A/B RCA beforehand.

I see that there are hotkeys for debander and deringer but not RCA apparently?

And still no hotkey to open the mVR config panel directly huh? Only option is to call madHcCtrl.exe editLocalSettingsDontWait then I guess?

Ctrl + S opens the control panel.

[Oguignant]

settings.bin
madVR's settings can be backed up or shared via a settings.bin file. My settings are optimized for the Nvidia 1080 Ti / Titan X (Pascal), Windows 10, and on my LG OLED55C7P 4K TV with profiles for SD, 720, 1080, UHD, and above. 3D is disabled. I use Max Quality but even the Heater settings.bin should never have dropped frames due to GPU performance if used with an overclocked 1080 Ti or better. Note that "low" still requires a decent GPU.

To use simply restore madVR to default settings and place the file in the madVR program directory. madVR will automatically create or update the file with new settings madVR if it has write access to its directory (e.g. not in "program files"). madVR will still use the registry to store these settings, along with any changes, without write access. :)

For madVR v0.92.10 or later:
Heater settings.bin (http://www.mediafire.com/file/6wpsd6w45tuotwu/madVR_HeaterSettings.zip)
Max Quality settings.bin (http://www.mediafire.com/file/aq8bevrirokiry2/madVR_MaxQuality.zip)
Low Power settings.bin (http://www.mediafire.com/file/8dhzbbpnkasij9p/madVR_LowPower.zip)

Feedback is appreciated, especially for the low power settings.

Hi, Thanks for sharing!!!

Luckily, I have the same hardware configuration: Nvidia Aorus 1080 Ti Xtreme, Windows 10, and LG OLED55C7P 4K TV. The difference is that I have an Alienware 17r4 i7-7820hk laptop with Graphics Amplifier. (Video Bus: PCIe v3.0 x16 (8.0 GT/s) @ x4 (8.0 GT/s) is my limitation)

I had already set my own settings, but the rules I apply are more complicated because I do it by directory in addition to resulocion and frames. It is more complex, but it works better for me in this way, because it allows me to have, let's say it this way: the three settings: Heater settings, Max Quality settings and Low Power settings in one configuration.


After testing the 3 options (heater, max q and low power) I got excellent performance, modify some things in my scaling settings (like 4k 30fps) based on the Heater settings. (I always use NGU sharp/very high for 4k upscaling but now i replace it with Jinc, as in your settings)

All other processing and rendering settings are the same as yours.

Thks!!!!

[Asmodian]

I am glad it was helpful. :)

Using folders to automatically set the profile is a good idea but my profiles were already complex, yours must be intense. ;)

[NoTechi]

Any hints to a madVR newb wich controls I should play with to improve HD sports. To be more precise I have a JVC7900 and watching soccer I found that on closeups everything is sharp and crisp but once the camera zooms out to show like half of the soccer field I have the impression the single players could be sharper. Could be the JVC pixel shift is just at the edge and it can't be improved but I would like to try :) If someone could share his settings he is using for HD sports would be even better :)


NoTechi


PS Soccer world cup is starting soon I need to be prepared ;)

[Manni]

Any hints to a madVR newb wich controls I should play with to improve HD sports. To be more precise I have a JVC7900 and watching soccer I found that on closeups everything is sharp and crisp but once the camera zooms out to show like half of the soccer field I have the impression the single players could be sharper. Could be the JVC pixel shift is just at the edge and it can't be improved but I would like to try :) If someone could share his settings he is using for HD sports would be even better :)


NoTechi


PS Soccer world cup is starting soon I need to be prepared ;)

You might want to try enabling the CMD (frame interpolation) in the JVC, set to low or high (it should be off by default). It doubles the vertical resolution, so it should help with live sports at 50/60p. I assume you're not watching recorded content, so MadVR not relevant. Don't use it with movies unless you like the SOE (soap opera effect).

If recorded (weird way to experience the World Cup!) then try the smooth picture feature in MadVR, but I never use it so I'll let Asmodian give advice.

[NoTechi]

Manni many thanks for your Feedback! No I don't like the SOE but you are right I never tried it on sports so far but will do.

I am just setting up madvr with live TV (DVBViewer with madvr getting streamed from a VU+ 4k). I will try smooth motion even though I am not sure if CMD combined with smooth motion is a good idea.

Both might improve the movement but I am more concerned to get the Players more sharp from a bigger distance. In other words even when they are not moving at all but the camera is zoomed out completly to show the field I would like to increase the sharpness of those "tiny players" :)

NoTechi

[Manni]

Manni many thanks for your Feedback! No I don't like the SOE but you are right I never tried it on sports so far but will do.

I am just setting up madvr with live TV (DVBViewer with madvr getting streamed from a VU+ 4k). I will try smooth motion even though I am not sure if CMD combined with smooth motion is a good idea.

Both might improve the movement but I am more concerned to get the Players more sharp from a bigger distance. In other words even when they are not moving at all but the camera is zoomed out completly to show the field I would like to increase the sharpness of those "tiny players" :)

NoTechi

Don't use both CMD and Smooth Motion, it's one or the other :)

If it's not when the players move, then you might want to use some sharpening, as CMD won't help that much on static shots. I'll let Asmodian advise.

Cool to know that MadVR can work with DVBViewer.

[Warner306]

Any hints to a madVR newb wich controls I should play with to improve HD sports. To be more precise I have a JVC7900 and watching soccer I found that on closeups everything is sharp and crisp but once the camera zooms out to show like half of the soccer field I have the impression the single players could be sharper. Could be the JVC pixel shift is just at the edge and it can't be improved but I would like to try :) If someone could share his settings he is using for HD sports would be even better :)


NoTechi


PS Soccer world cup is starting soon I need to be prepared ;)

Upscale with NGU Sharp and use upscaling refinement settings such as sharpen edges or crispen edges.

[Asmodian]

I agree with Manni and Warner306.

It is very important to not use smooth motion with any frame interpolation algorithm. Smooth motion generates blended frames when it needs to but these horribly confuse motion interpolation. Smooth motion also does soften the image some so it isn't going to help sharpness at all.

If you are already using NGU Sharp at as high a quality as you can, image enhancement is what you need. Play with one or two sharpeners, don't just click everything, more is not always better. I find good strenth values are usually between 0.5 and 1.5 but this is source and display dependent (I have no experience with projectors) so I wouldn't try to copy others' settings. Trust your eyes but also remember to keep a balance, very sharp might look good at first when studying too closely but look really bad when considering the image as a whole.

As a recommendation (take with some salt, see above):
Crispen Edges is a good option that tends to not make the image look too over sharpened and it can be combined with other sharpeners for good results at fairly low strengths.

[NoTechi]

Many thanks for all the hints to get me world cup ready! ;)

I am still struggling to get good results on scenes which are zoomed out. When they are not moving it's ok but when they do I get sort of "ghosting". So I might have to balance sharpness and "ghosting" free movements. Well I guess I just have to keep trying and to get a feeling for all the settings.


NoTechi

[Asmodian]

A sort of ghosting does not sound good!

Are you using smooth motion? Sharpening and ghosting shouldn't be related at all. :confused:

[huhn]

the cause of ghosting has a lot of reasons.
could be something simply as a PWM.

[NoTechi]

No smooth motion is off. I tried but it did not improve the "ghosting". Well "ghosting" might be the wrong term it's more like once the camera is zoomed out and the "tiny players" are moving they are not shown sharp anymore.

It might be also related to the refresh rate which I basically did not looked at yet. I get dropped and repeated frames with live tv where I don't get them with movies with same resolution so my guess is thats refresh rate related. I might need more profiles :)

It might be I am just asking too much from a 4k pixel shift projector and HD live TV but I am not done with tweaking the settings yet! Still some time to world cup ;)

NoTechi

[NoTechi]

the cause of ghosting has a lot of reasons.
could be something simply as a PWM.

I got a X-Rite i1Display Pro incoming next week to create a 3DLUT. Using a 3DLUT should also improve possible problems coming from PWM right?


NoTechi

[huhn]

no it will not change ghosting.

PWM is kind of an flicker the human eye doesn't see but which can create ghosting.

a screen with 60 hz a source and 60 hz BFI usual flickers but doesn't have ghosting problems while a 120 HZ BFI screen rarely flickers but has ghosting problem.

every type of brightness change on a static image can create this.

[QBhd]

I have watched these streams in the past. The problem being described is a result of the compression. There really is nothing that can be done. Think in terms of x264, the zoomed out angles of the match are just a huge monolithic green field with very small and fast moving players. No real time x264 settings are going to handle this very well. The players are encoded as blurry smudges, I don't think there is a way to make these blurry smudges any sharper.

QB

[NoTechi]

I made some close up pictures today from F1 once the camera was zoomed out which basically has the same effect as with soccer with small moving objects (not the best quality but you will get the point).
Link to sample pictures (https://1drv.ms/f/s!AlcgOAEVDZLkmsBoCDIOYI7-aUr7BQ)
I have to add it is not always that bad as in the pictures when zoomed out. It seems to be depending on how the small objects and the camera is moving.

In movies I never get something like this. Also live TV without small moving objects looks great.

@QB Yes the stream compression might explain it. I think it can be somewhat mitigated but it will never look really good.

NoTechi

[huhn]

this is bad deinterlancing or no deinterlancing.

[NoTechi]

I had the impression I was able to use higher settings in madvr with dxv11 instead of DXVA2 (copy-back) without dropped/repeated frames with the downside that deinterlacing is not possible in madvr. But if thats required and will improve live sports it would be ok.

Thanks Huhn will try :)

NoTechi

[NoTechi]

Ok with deinteralcing it is a difference as day and night! Feeling stupid that I did not saw the wood for the trees with all those possible settings. But guess thats part of the learning curve and I am more than thankfull that you all are taking the time to point a newb like me in the right direction!

I am world cup ready now :D

NoTechi

[huhn]

try yadif in lavfilter nvidia has some major problem with deinterlancing.

[nevcairiel]

NVIDIA HW deinterlacing is just fine.

[huhn]

did they fix they chroma issue?
edit: 388.71 still wrong aligned on my PC.

[huhn]

do you know if you can provide DXVA2 with the chroma sub sample position.

maybe it assumes mpeg1 without additional informations not mpeg2 sub sample position.

that would make the problem a part of EVR and madVR not nvidia even through that'S not a brilliant idea if that is the case.

[bluesam20]

What's good everyone,
I have been having problems with the OP's config lately. About a year ago I purchased my first 4k monitor, around that time I found this thread. I started to use the settings file posted here as a starting point and decided I really liked the results. I used it with no performance problems at all, fast forward to today and I reinstalled mpc-hc and madvr. Now I cannot play any files without major frame drops. Before I continue my specs:
Core I7 6830k @ 4Ghz
16GB ram @ 3000Mhz
GeForce GTX Titan X Pascal @ 1800Mhz~
120GB SSD for Win 10 64bit/MPC-HC and Madvr 32/64bit
I did find a couple of workarounds:
1. Simply enable FSE, I get zero frame drops except when the player switches to the mode.
2. Setup different display modes within Madvr (ex. 2160p29 etc.). This of course disables Smooth Motion, but the refresh rate now matches the video famerate so it's okay
3. My least favorite and last option if a must, reduce scaling settings.
So I'm hoping someone can give me some advice as to what might be causing the issue, I know it's probably going to be just to reduce the quality settings. However I think that's a little extreme considering it plays fine in full screen, under the same settings with FSE enabled. Thanks for any help or info.

[Asmodian]

It is interesting that FSE is fine.

Have you tried disabling D3D11 and using Windowed Overlay? How about not presenting a frame every vsync? Usually problems that are solved by FSE involve Windows' desktop composition in some way.

What are your average and max present and rendering times in the different modes? What happens if you disable smooth motion while still using 60 Hz (not recommended for watching, just as a test)?

Are you using my heater or max quality options?

[khanmein]

The FSE mode is not working again with 398.46.

[Asmodian]

Hopefully they fix it before the next "official" release, FSE works well in 398.36. :(


2. Setup different display modes within Madvr (ex. 2160p29 etc.). This of course disables Smooth Motion, but the refresh rate now matches the video famerate so it's okay
3. My least favorite and last option if a must, reduce scaling settings.

Thinking about this more, the fact that either no smooth motion OR FSE works you are probably right on the edge of the performance requirements. Do you have the power limit of your titan at 100%?

I think at 100% the power limit does trigger while watching some content at 4K with my "max quality" settings, even at default clocks. Not enough to drop frames when I was testing (I did test my settings with my Titan X (Pascal) at complete defaults) but it was close. I have to admit I always have mine at 120%, even if I am devolting/downclocking. If you are watching 30p especially. :o

[bluesam20]

Thanks for the fast response, and I'm sorry I left out some information. I use your Max Quality config, the Heater settings are a bit too much. I run with the power target at 120%, a 50Mhz offset on the core clock and a 300Mhz offset on the memory clock. I use the stock TitanX(Pascal) blower fan cooler, so things heat up quick and that 1800Mhz boost drops to around 1772Mhz.
I have tried some of the suggestions you made already, but I am testing them again right now. I disabled Smooth Motion and left the refresh at 60Hz, the results:
2160p - rendering stats
avg 5 ~ 8ms
max 8 ~ 13ms
1080p - avg 16 ~ 19ms
max 20 ~ 23ms
720p - avg 8 ~ 10ms
max 10 ~ 18ms
SD - avg 13 ~ 16ms
max 16 ~ 20ms
with Smooth Motion
2160p - avg 5 ~ 8ms
max 8 ~ 12ms
1080p - avg 18 ~ 22ms
max 20 ~ 28ms
720p - avg 8 ~12ms
max 10 ~ 23ms
SD - avg 14 ~ 17ms
max 17 ~ 22m

Disabling the DirectX 11 present a frame for every vsync, the render times are similar. Enabling it I get a single dropped frame occasionally, but It does not disturb playback.
And just for good measure I also switched to D3D9 windowed overlay mode but I got constant frame drops.

Thanks again for the help and suggestions.