madVR Options Explained

[vivan]

This is being discussed in the madVR thread but I thought it would be better to ask here: What exactly does overlay mode do?It utilizes hardware overlay, which is supposed to be the fastest way to draw anything. It also bypasses OS. You can read about it on wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_Window_Manager
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_overlay

[Akeno]

It utilizes hardware overlay, which is supposed to be the fastest way to draw anything. It also bypasses OS. You can read about it on wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_Window_Manager
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_overlay

Thanks. Other than enabling it in madVR, do I need to do anything else to utilize windowed overlay? Wikipedia and other users say that overlay mode prevents screenshots from capturing the video area but all of mine are working just fine.

[vivan]

I've just checked and overlay doesn't wotk in D3D11 mode, only in D3D9. I don't think any other settings could affect it (but I don't like this mode so I don't really know).
When enabled it should say "D3D9 overlay" in OSD (Ctrl+J).

Screenshots of the whole screen using PrtScr or build-in into media player (Alt+I in MPC-HC)?
In overlay mode PrtScr screenshots should be like this: http://i.imgur.com/29dK9q0.png

[Akeno]

I'm using D3D11 so that explains why the video still appears in screenshots. Are there any distinct advantages to overlay mode over D3D11? I got faster render times with the latter.

[aufkrawall]

Don't take render times too seriously.
Better try some processing that is almost or slightly too much for your GPU and check which render path gives no/fewest dropped frames/glitches.

[Asmodian]

I'm using D3D11 so that explains why the video still appears in screenshots. Are there any distinct advantages to overlay mode over D3D11? I got faster render times with the latter.

The advantages to overlay are what was already stated, they do not change when compared to DX11 or DX9 non-overlay modes. The biggest advantage for me is that it bypasses the calibration hardware in the video card; madVR loads the calibration from the video card, runs it at higher precision, and before dithering to 8-bit. It also doesn't need to switch into and out of FSE to provide its benefits, this mode switch is very fast now but still obvious.

Overlay is also very robust and tends to avoid V-sync issues, e.g. with multi-monitor setups in Windows 7.

Overlay does not support 10-bit. Overlay is also a bit less responsive when resizing the video player's window.

[David]

Question answered.

[Asmodian]

Finally an update for madVR v0.88.21

Does anyone have a good short description for Bilateral as is used in madVR for chroma upscaling? Thanks. :)

[huhn]

Bilateral is a chroma scaler that uses the luma channel as reference. this can be very good but it can fail too.

[Asmodian]

Bilateral is a chroma scaler that uses the luma channel as reference. this can be very good but it can fail too.

Excellent! Thanks. :)

[Dlget]

can anyone suggest setting for anime & normal video.
like that deinterlacing setting.-look pixel in frame center (good for broadcast,bad for anime)

[aufkrawall]

Main difference is that chroma scaling is much more important for colored cartoons than for any filmed content.
But luma still is very important, as it's for the contoures.
If you don't like high deband strength for filmed content, you may like it for cartoons, as it hardly kills details there.

Jinc AR for chroma is relatively soft, but this often doesn't become apparent. If you also watch bad sources which usually have lots of ringing in them, you may want to use NNEDI3 32 for chroma. But this is quite luxury, considering the high performance costs.

For luma, NNEDI3 is a no-brainer for cartoons, if you have enough performance and upscaling factor is 1.5x or higher.
64 neurons should be used, but also 32 are still better than super-xbr. super-xbr boosts ringing, makes lines fat and is also more aliased than NNEDI3.
However, you can use it for quadrupling after NNEDI3 if you lack performance for NNEDI3 quadrupling (but only important for very low-res content).

What's good for cartoons is mostly also good for filmed content.

[amayra]

how about new zoom settings ?

[Asmodian]

how about new zoom settings ?

I will add them soon. I am currently exactly at the character limit so it requires some refactoring, I will need to move advanced topics to another post and link to it. :(

[Sparktank]

I will add them soon. I am currently exactly at the character limit so it requires some refactoring, I will need to move advanced topics to another post and link to it. :(

Why not ask a mod to copy the first post a few times? They should be copied right after each other, in chronological order.

[vivan]

I don't think post "copying" is even possible (each post has an id and owner, they can't be changed).
Usually such problems are solved by deleting first few posts from other users or by moving other posts from the same user (if it's possible from chronological point of view).

[Asmodian]

Why not ask a mod to copy the first post a few times? They should be copied right after each other, in chronological order.

I am thinking I should probably make a new post, "Things to know about madVR" or similar, and link to that. It could grow quite large as well. I could also add known driver issues, tips and tricks, etc.

[huhn]

you should just ask an admin/mod to get the first couple of post and wait what they say.

the number of feature will grow too.

[Asmodian]

Admin was contacted and was very helpful. :)

Updated for madVR v0.89.5.

[Asmodian]

Updated for madVR v0.89.11

[Sparktank]

Oh, cool. Looks it all worked out nicely. :)

[markanini]

Are deint=Film and deint=IVTC file tags different from each other?

[Asmodian]

Are deint=Film and deint=IVTC file tags different from each other?

Good catch, no they are not.

edit: A lot of those tags are synonymous.

[Asmodian]

Updated for madVR v0.89.13.

Automatic, file container level, rotation support!

Other good things as well, like improved DXVA chroma quality on Intel (and maybe Nvidia), but automatic rotation stands out for me. :)

[magnusr]

Got a new upscaling problem with my new computer. Using mphc with madvr. New computer has windows 10 and latest mphc with madvr. Latest Intel graphics driver. Intel i7 6700 using builtin HD530 graphics outputs to LG oled tv who is set for hdmi high (0-255). My previous Windows 10 computer had an ATI card and didnt have this problem.

Intel graphics driver: RGB to 0-255 (quantization full range). Also had to set brightness in the driver itself to +8 to get it right. YCbCr deactivated, IT-content activated. Video color settings: Program Settings. And deactivated sking tone and contrast enhancment.
madvr is set to 0-255 8 bit for the display and in lav i have tried both untouched and 0-255.

Playing 1080p content everything is perfect, but the problem occurs when watching 720p content who gets upscaled to 1080p. Brightness increases a lot. Black is gray. If I set the tv to rgb limited it fixes it. Anyone got a clue? Why do I have to set the tv to rgb limited for upscaled movies but not 1080p movies?

[huhn]

what display mode do you use?

[magnusr]

1080p23, 1080p24, 1080p25, 1080p29, 1080p30, 1080p60

In this case 1080p23

[Asmodian]

That really does not make sense to me. There is no difference, to the Intel drivers, after madVR gets done with 720p or 1080p. madVR resizes to the output resolution and then hands it to the Intel drivers either way.

Are you using and DXVA or QS decoding features? I would test with them all disabled (software decoding in LAV and no DXVA resizing). Are you sure the test file is not the issue?

[magnusr]

Seems it might be 720p file I tested. Tested another movie and it seemed fine. Thanks

[Asmodian]

Finally updated for madVR v0.89.17. Suggestions for better descriptions for sharpen edges, thin edges, and enhance detail are welcome. :)

[Asmodian]

Updated for madVR v0.89.18

[Nullack]

Thanks for the guide Asmodian

Can I suggest adding that Nvidia 3D Stereoscopic vision isnt compatible with madVR. This isnt just packed frames like you mention. madVR needs 3D vision disabled in the nvidia control panel.

Perhaps also stating what are the default settings for them all. Like auto FSE is default.

Thanks

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

Thank you very much for the guide!

Are you o.k. with recommended options questions in this guide or should I go somewhere else?

[Asmodian]

I am happy to answer questions for recommended options but I cannot put them in the guide without a lot of discussion of specific hardware.

Anything that is definite I do try to add but that is only a few things like do not turn off dithering.

[Asmodian]

Thanks for the guide Asmodian

Can I suggest adding that Nvidia 3D Stereoscopic vision isnt compatible with madVR. This isnt just packed frames like you mention. madVR needs 3D vision disabled in the nvidia control panel.

Perhaps also stating what are the default settings for them all. Like auto FSE is default.

Thanks

This is a good idea, I will add both ideas when I get a chance. Thanks. :)

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

I am happy to answer questions for recommended options but I cannot put them in the guide without a lot of discussion of specific hardware.

Anything that is definite I do try to add but that is only a few things like do not turn off dithering.

Thank you!

I've read through a lot of pages on the main madvr thread but the thread is really a little too ridiculous to catch up :/

I got some questions regarding the upscaling algorithms and filters:
For Luma:
The way I read it, NNedi3 and Jinc are still the overall best quality filters.
SuperRes got me some additional non-destructive sharpness, especially with SD sources. Is there any harm in doing it 4 times (highest option)? What are the advantages/disadvantages in doing it in LL?

For Chroma:
I've read a lot of people using Jinc or even NNEDI3 for chroma. Are those people talking anime? Because as far as I know the artifact hiding properties of SoftCubic (I use 80 softness) is desirable for chroma, as too sharp chroma can look unnatural (especially for SD sources, doubling the chroma with NNEDI first looks better though). Is SuperRes for chroma desirable?
Afaik chroma for anime/cartoon is a different story and behaves more like Luma.

[Asmodian]

For Luma: you are right about Jinc and NNEDI3 in my opinion but comparing Jinc to super-xbr is hard. Important only if you don't have the performance for NNEDI3. Some do like xbr more than NEEDI3 though so best is hard to say for sure. Lanczos is sharper than Jinc too. :p

SuperRes has diminishing returns with more passes, less benefit for the extra performance hit. As I understand linear light for SuperRes emphasizes erorr in small light details while gamma light emphasizes small dark details. There difference is fairly subtle in my experience.

For Chroma: I agree, madshi added SoftCubic for chroma and it was the default at first. A very reasonable choice for filmed content. I also agree that anime is different and sharper chroma scaling is more beneficial. People do like sharp though. ;)

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

Thank you for your quick response!

SuperRes has diminishing returns with more passes, less benefit for the extra performance hit. As I understand linear light for SuperRes emphasizes erorr in small light details while gamma light emphasizes small dark details. There difference is fairly subtle in my experience.

Just to make sure I got you right: You are saying that LL on is better for darker scenes while LL off is better for brighter ones? Which one do you prefer?
An SuperRes is mostly a case of more helps more? SuperRes seems to hide some SVP artifacts btw. Especially the halos on panning camera movements and bright background seem less agressive with SuperRes.
In what cases is SuperRes harming the image? Are those cases negligible?

For Chroma: I agree, madshi added SoftCubic for chroma and it was the default at first. A very reasonable choice for filmed content. I also agree that anime is different and sharper chroma scaling is more beneficial. People do like sharp though. ;)

I do think that NNEDI64 chroma doubling helps image quality if you also do luma doubling. Before doing SoftCubic upscaling that is.

What do you think about SuperRes for chroma upscaling refinement (for film content)? Does it improve the picture without the overly sharp look of Jinc? Do you use it and if yes, what settings do you use?
I would bet it is desirable for anime.

[aufkrawall]

Gamma light SuperRes is more correct when the image has been downscaled before in gamma light. But as we usually can't know how the material we feed madVR with has been downscaled, this doesn't really matter.
So, in practice you can say: LL SR is darker, GL brighter. LL SR often makes dark lines fat, that's why GL probably can be considered as better or at least the better default setting.

[Asmodian]

Just to make sure I got you right: You are saying that LL on is better for darker scenes while LL off is better for brighter ones? Which one do you prefer?
An SuperRes is mostly a case of more helps more? SuperRes seems to hide some SVP artifacts btw. Especially the halos on panning camera movements and bright background seem less agressive with SuperRes.
In what cases is SuperRes harming the image? Are those cases negligible?

To be honest I do not use SuperRes or SVP (I cannot handle SVP's artifacts). I find SuperRes adds back minor aliasing which was present in the source and which NNEDI3 doubling removed.

I do think that NNEDI64 chroma doubling helps image quality if you also do luma doubling. Before doing SoftCubic upscaling that is.

What do you think about SuperRes for chroma upscaling refinement (for film content)? Does it improve the picture without the overly sharp look of Jinc? Do you use it and if yes, what settings do you use?
I would bet it is desirable for anime.

I agree that there is something nice about using NNEDI3 chroma doubling when using luma doubling but I generally do not like NNED3 chroma upscaling. I always use Jinc AR for image upscaling and I do not consider Jinc very sharp. :)

I normally use Jinc AR for chroma upscaling except for very low resolution sources when I sometimes use NNEDI3 64. I never use SuperRes for chroma. I also quite like Mitchell-Netravali without AR for chroma upscaling, when testing I tend to pick one or the other depending on the source (and mood? :p). SoftCubic is a bit too soft for me unless the source is very low quality.

I have never found universal settings for upscaling refinement, my optimal settings are entirely source dependent.

[ikarad]

Thanks for the guide Asmodian


Where is the guide? Is it the first page?

[Asmodian]

The first two posts. It is not really a guide, more of a reference to make it easier to pick your own settings.

MadVR does not lend itself to a complete guide in my opinion. To much is dependent on personal preference, the particular display, the computer's hardware, the content, etc.

[Anima123]

How can I use IVTC to decimate a video fps 59.940 to fps 24.970?

As I remembered, I've done it with success once.

[Asmodian]

All you should need is to enable IVTC.

[Anima123]

All you should need is to enable IVTC.

Well, problem is, I cannot find the shortcut to enable IVTC now.

Could someone confirm the ways of enable it has been changed for latest version of madVR?

[huhn]

control +shift + alternative +d = deinterlancing
than control +shift + alternative +t to switch to film mode.

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

I find SuperRes adds back minor aliasing which was present in the source and which NNEDI3 doubling removed.
Yes, I see that too. It is really very minor though and imho worth the overall improvements in image quality.

I do not like overly sharp chroma, even with HD content. SoftCubic 80 is the sweet spot for me personally. But scaling too much with just soft cubic makes the chroma too burred imho, so doing doubling first is nice.

Thanks a lot for the input!

[Nullack]

rendering

general settings:
enable windowed overlay (Windows 7 and newer): Only available on Nvidia and Intel GPUs. Uses a low level overlay method which bypasses the GPU LUT (monitor profile) so madVR emulates it when using this option, this is done in 16-bit so madVR can provide better quality than the GPU. Overlay also bypasses the OS to a large extent; screen-shots are not possible.
use Direct3D 11 for presentation (Windows 7 and newer): Use Direct3D 11 instead of D3D9. Requires a restart of madVR to take effect. Required for >8 bit output. Overrides windowed overlay.
present a frame for every VSync: when disabled madVR only presents new frames when needed, relying on D3D11 to repeat frames for each VSync. Disabled may improve performance but may also cause presentation glitches.


Hi

So even if I have enable window overlay set to on, if I have DX11 also set to on, the window overlay is disabled? The UI settings allow both to be on.

Since DX11 is required for >8bit output thats the option Im interested in. Is there any general commentary on the DX11 setting in practical use?

Testing on Win 10 x64 is showing many presentation glitches if the present frame for each Vysnc is not enabled. This is with my setup being Nvidia GTX 960, UHD 4K display through HDMI 60 FPS.

Thanks

[Nullack]

disable desktop composition (Vista and Windows 7): Disables Aero which has its own v-sync that can conflict with madVR’s.

Is this setting not applicable for Windows 10 installations?

[Asmodian]

Hi

So even if I have enable window overlay set to on, if I have DX11 also set to on, the window overlay is disabled? The UI settings allow both to be on.

Since DX11 is required for >8bit output thats the option Im interested in. Is there any general commentary on the DX11 setting in practical use?

Testing on Win 10 x64 is showing many presentation glitches if the present frame for each Vysnc is not enabled. This is with my setup being Nvidia GTX 960, UHD 4K display through HDMI 60 FPS.

Thanks

Yes, if you enable DX11 overlay is never used. You can verify this in the OSD.

DX11 works well on my system, slightly more responsive than DX9 or overlay with similar performance (I am also using Win10 x64 but with a Nvidia GTX 980 Ti). I also need present frame for each Vsync enabled. Both DX11 and full screen exclusive are required for 10 bit output. Don't forget to change the bit-depth in the display's properties as well.

Is this setting not applicable for Windows 10 installations?

Yes, it does not apply for Windows 8 or 10. Desktop composition cannot be disabled on Windows 8 or 10.