madVR Options Explained

[Asmodian]

In my experiance, and depending on the HDR master, I get more pleasing results using values not quite the same as my measured peak brightness. For HDR->HDR target peak nits should be set to the measured white level, HDR->SDR is less exact. Again, mastering has a huge effect as well, some of my HDR movies need very different target peak nits to look decent in SDR. :p

And 200 is about right for the brightness of a XB270HU. I have one myself and 160-220 nits is a good brightness setting for it, without a meter simply adjusting it and evaluating the result is all you can do.

[Audionut]

Without a meter, everything is guesswork.:D

As I get older I get less anal about these things, hence the good thing about a meter. Measure and forget. :cool:

If doing HDR -> SDR I would assume you would ideally want to be using the latest beta build. There's lots of options in there. Some of those would seem far more preferable then playing with target nits.

But I haven't played with any of them though. The defaults work fine for this old bastard. I'll shut the door on the way out. ;)

[takenori]

Hi, is htere any reason why the custom mode doesnt switch automatically anymore? is there any new tutorial inline with newer driver/updates of windows and gpu?
my pc used to switch automatically a few years back (2018 i think)
today, i tried the same tutorial and it wont switch automatically.

im on gsync compatible freesync hdr monitor (turned off via monitor OSD), windows 10 home, and nvidia gtx 10
all 3 is in the latest firmware, update, and driver.

thanks for the answers

[Asmodian]

Do you have G-sync disable in the drivers as well?

Sorry, I don't know of a guide but automatic switching works for me without doing anything special, I simply need to enable them in display modes.

Edit: Actually this works even with G-sync enabled in the drivers.. so my first question isn't relevant. :o

[takenori]

Do you have G-sync disable in the drivers as well?

Sorry, I don't know of a guide but automatic switching works for me without doing anything special, I simply need to enable them in display modes.

Edit: Actually this works even with G-sync enabled in the drivers.. so my first question isn't relevant. :o

glad that i can still use freesync on, swithing themregularly is a pain.

so after a few fiddling, the only time im able to auto switch is only from the available standard mode, the missing list is not switchable
also, its a 1440p monitor,
but on the list of mode madvr may switch to, it listed as invalid (1440p23, 1440p59, and so on)
1080p and 2160p listed as valid
so, if i play a 1080p59 video on my 1440p monitor, it would switch to 1080p59 instead of 1440p59
https://i.imgur.com/tg11GkC.jpg

edit: also, instead of apply button after each refresh rate, it shows test mode instead.

[Asmodian]

Sorry, that all seems to be an issue with that monitor. It seems to be missing several useful modes, I would expect 119 Hz on a high Hz display (useful for 23 and 59). You only need 100, 119 (119.88012), and 120 Hz, everything else fits nicely into just them so do not worry about 50 Hz missing. Maybe try CRU (https://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU) to add 119.88Hz?

Make sure to disable G-sync for your video player, madVR does not get along with G-sync because it relies on the display having a fixed refresh rate. Smooth motion goes really bad but the frame timing with G-sync enabled is not great even with smooth motion disabled.

Edit: A great option, and what I would do, is leave it on 2560x1440@144Hz all the time and use smooth motion. Smooth motion works really well at 144Hz.

[takenori]

managed to switch to my resolution,
apparently, i need to type the whole resoultion instead of 1440p.
but they result in a bad audio lag.
both with gsync compatible turned on and off, still audio lag.
and thanks for the suggestion, will try smooth motion because lots of my contents is 29 and 25 fps.
but do i need to use them for 23 materials? stat still reports 1 frame drop every 44seconds playing 23 on 144hz

[huhn]

if you drop a frame every 44 sec and you don't want that the answer is yes.

[takenori]

sorry, i mean frame repeat.

[Asmodian]

Smooth motion still offers an improvement for 23.976 fps @ 144 Hz, you will not get full frame drops or repeats without it but you do get judder. Without smooth motion most frames will be displayed for 6 refreshes but every 44 seconds a frame will be displayed for 7 refreshes instead. This is not too bad but with smooth motion you do not get any judder.

[pirlouy]

Bah, the repeated frame lasts 7 ms, hard to detect for a 24 fps video. Thanks high refresh rates.
But indeed, if you use madVR, Smooth Motion is not hard on CPU/GPU and does not add flickering in that case, so you can use it.

[huhn]

if you run a frame async every 44 sec ~7 ms correction is not going to fix ~42 ms of sync there are far more repeated frame and they should be to hard to notice.

[lazostat]

You make all the settings for better image quality. But happen when you duplicate screen and you play the video from pc to tv? Do i have all these image settings adjusted on my Tv also? If yes, don't they conflict with the settings i already have done on my TV in order to have better quality?

[Asmodian]

I am not sure what you mean by 'conflict'. I turn off all image enhancements on my TV (sharpening, denoising, frame interpolation, etc.), but I would without madVR as well.

Most of madVR's improvement is simply due to doing the required math with as high quality as possible, e.g. scaling, color space conversions, dithering, etc.

The only true conflict I can think of is smooth motion, which will interact badly with frame interpolation. You really do not want to use the TV's frame interpolation or those modes that try to pull 24 fps from the 60 Hz signal with smooth motion, it breaks those algorithms. Things like sharpening twice also looks bad but that is more due to over-sharpening. I am still not sure I would call that conflicting with each other but they can interact badly. I consider madVR's filters like sharpening, denoising, artifact removal, etc. as only useful for specific sources, not something to run all time.

[lazostat]

I am not sure what you mean by 'conflict'. I turn off all image enhancements on my TV (sharpening, denoising, frame interpolation, etc.), but I would without madVR as well.

Most of madVR's improvement is simply due to doing the required math with as high quality as possible, e.g. scaling, color space conversions, dithering, etc.

The only true conflict I can think of is smooth motion, which will interact badly with frame interpolation. You really do not want to use the TV's frame interpolation or those modes that try to pull 24 fps from the 60 Hz signal with smooth motion, it breaks those algorithms. Things like sharpening twice also looks bad but that is more due to over-sharpening. I am still not sure I would call that conflicting with each other but they can interact badly. I consider madVR's filters like sharpening, denoising, artifact removal, etc. as only useful for specific sources, not something to run all time.So what are the best options to use on Madvr if i see movies on my tv? The same settings will apply if i see movies on pc monitor?

Also what about rgb? I have an option on my samsung TV called HDMI black and two options, low and normal. I read that low is full RGB and i see better black levels.

Also, do i have to change some settings on nvidia control panel?

Also, my pc monitor has only 60Hz mode. So i have to enable smooth motion option on Madvr? And how can i understand if all working without problem? What is the ideal sec/min to have dropped/repeated frame? And what about rendering time and glitches?

[Klaus1189]

Also what about rgb? I have an option on my samsung TV called HDMI black and two options, low and normal. I read that low is full RGB and i see better black levels.
Not "better" blacks, the matching setting will be the right setting. It depends on the output of your GPU:

Limited 16 - 235 --> "normal"
Full 0 - 255 --> "low"

Keep in mind 99,9% of all videos are limited 16-235. There is just a conversion involved, perhaps more, but that doesn't matter now. We discussed it also here, but it all comes down to your display.
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1907286#post1907286 and the next posts

Also, my pc monitor has only 60Hz mode. So i have to enable smooth motion option on Madvr? And how can i understand if all working without problem?

Please download CRU, see the first post here for the download link:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=176013

Then you can add missing refresh rates, but you have to test it, if it works. There is no guarantee, it depends on the monitor / TV / projector, ...

What is the ideal sec/min to have dropped/repeated frame? And what about rendering time and glitches?

the best is no drops or repeats, but in my opinion longer than your longest movie is already enough. My RX 5700 XT does 11,8 hours out of the box, as did my RX480 8GB, thank god it is still here.

The rendering time must be blow the frametime.
23 Hz frametime is longer than 59 Hz frametime, so you can do more heavy upscaling on 23 Hz than on 59 Hz, because the GPU is too slow to deliver it fast enough.

[Klaus1189]

We can not view your "Capture.JPG", please use google drive or similar.

[lazostat]

Not "better" blacks, the matching setting will be the right setting. It depends on the output of your GPU:

Limited 16 - 235 --> "normal"
Full 0 - 255 --> "low"

Keep in mind 99,9% of all videos are limited 16-235. There is just a conversion involved, perhaps more, but that doesn't matter now. We discussed it also here, but it all comes down to your display.
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1907286#post1907286 and the next posts



Please download CRU, see the first post here for the download link:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=176013

Then you can add missing refresh rates, but you have to test it, if it works. There is no guarantee, it depends on the monitor / TV / projector, ...



the best is no drops or repeats, but in my opinion longer than your longest movie is already enough. My RX 5700 XT does 11,8 hours out of the box, as did my RX480 8GB, thank god it is still here.

The rendering time must be blow the frametime.
23 Hz frametime is longer than 59 Hz frametime, so you can do more heavy upscaling on 23 Hz than on 59 Hz, because the GPU is too slow to deliver it fast enough.I tried to add some missing Hz modes with MadVr, but then monitor turned off and says that this resolution is not supported. Does CRU work different? It there any change my monitor will get some kind of damage?

Is there some kind of test video, so i can see how 60Hz monitor affects the 23/24 Hz playback? Cause i see many movies and animes on my pc monitor and i don't see something strange..

Should i upload some madvr stats during playback of some movies to tell me where is the problem?

[Asmodian]

No, CRU will not help if your monitor responds that way. Theoretically there could be damage but it is very unlikely, it just turns off and displays that message.

With smooth motion enabled 24 fps on 60 Hz is great, without it watch medium fast panning scenes for jumpy motion or judder.

[lazostat]

No, CRU will not help if your monitor responds that way. Theoretically there could be damage but it is very unlikely, it just turns off and displays that message.

With smooth motion enabled 24 fps on 60 Hz is great, without it watch medium fast panning scenes for jumpy motion or judder.Are there videos with such scenes on youtube to test?

My pc monitor is Dell Ultrasharp 2312HM.

[MadKodi]

im trying to make a new profile.
on the scaling algorithms tab... the create new group is grey out. i can not click.
how do i make a new profile ?

[Asmodian]

You need to have some setting pages that are not already in a profile group.

[alisaeed]

how can I back up my settings before I use yours ,, in case I want to return to mine?

[Asmodian]

Simply keep a copy your current settings.bin file. If you do not have one you need madVR to be in a directory where it has write access, you can edit permissions or move it out of program files and run install.bat as administrator.

[senzaparole]

Hi Asmodian!
I have been using your madVR HIGH settings for months with great satisfaction.

Maybe I should create a new "Scaling" profile for 1280x720 50FPS videos because madVR considers them "1080p30" and that's not good: high GPU temperatures, 60ms rendering and lots of lost frames.
On the other hand, with real 1080p30 videos everything works correctly. So I think I should create another profile .. what do you say?

If I have to create another profile you would be kind enough to write me the rule to insert here:

If (filePath = "* youtube *") "Streaming"
ElseIf (deintFPS <31) AND (srcWidth <= 1024) AND (srcHeight <= 576) "SDp30"
ElseIf (deintFPS <61) AND (srcWidth <= 1024) AND (srcHeight <= 576) "SDp60"
ElseIf (deintFPS <31) AND (srcWidth <= 1280) AND (srcHeight <= 720) "720p30"
ElseIf ((deintFPS <61) AND (srcWidth <= 1280) AND (srcHeight <= 720)) OR ((deintFPS <31) AND (srcWidth <= 1920) AND (srcHeight <= 1088)) "1080p30"
ElseIf ((deintFPS <61) AND (srcWidth <= 1920) AND (srcHeight <= 1088)) OR ((deintFPS <31) AND (srcWidth <= 4096) AND (srcHeight <= 2160)) "2160p30"
ElseIf ((deintFPS <121) AND (srcWidth <= 1920) AND (srcHeight <= 1088)) OR ((deintFPS <61) AND (srcWidth <= 4096) AND (srcHeight <= 2160)) "2160p60"
Else "Fast"

[VBB]

Separate these two

ElseIf ((deintFPS <61) AND (srcWidth <= 1280) AND (srcHeight <= 720)) OR ((deintFPS <31) AND (srcWidth <= 1920) AND (srcHeight <= 1088)) "1080p30"

into

ElseIf ((deintFPS <61) AND (srcWidth <= 1280) AND (srcHeight <= 720)) "720p60"
ElseIf ((deintFPS <31) AND (srcWidth <= 1920) AND (srcHeight <= 1088)) "1080p30"

[senzaparole]

thanks VBB.

so, summarizing I create the "720p60" profile and set it up taking a cue from the "720p30" profile

Then I delete the rule: ElseIf ((deintFPS <61) AND (srcWidth <= 1280) AND (srcHeight <= 720)) OR ((deintFPS <31) AND (srcWidth <= 1920) AND (srcHeight <= 1088)) "1080p30"

and I insert these 2 rules:
ElseIf ((deintFPS <61) AND (srcWidth <= 1280) AND (srcHeight <= 720)) "720p60"
ElseIf ((deintFPS <31) AND (srcWidth <= 1920) AND (srcHeight <= 1088)) "1080p30"

and I live in peace :-)

[VBB]

That should do the trick. Report back if it doesn't :)

[senzaparole]

certainly. I'll give you feedback as soon as I try. :-)

Thank you very much

[senzaparole]

Hi VBB,

works all perfectly.
With the new rules now madVR classifies all the movies I have in the right profiles, including the new 720p60 profile.
Thanks for your help

[lello]

A very interesting feature for those who, like me, have a 21: 9 aspect ratio screen, is the automatic detection of black bars. Unfortunately the black bands are not detected when using DXVA2 or D3D11 native decoding.
But using DXVA2 for decoding (copy back), my RX580 can't cope with BD UHD 4k: is there a way to detect black bands even with native DXVA and D3D11 decoding?

[Manni]

is there a way to detect black bands even with native DXVA and D3D11 decoding?

Not yet. Also BD Menu in jRiver (if you use that) is only available with copyback, not with native.

[lello]

In fact, that's why I don't use menus. And is there any possibility of a solution soon?

[chros]

Probably not.

[Asmodian]

In fact, that's why I don't use menus. And is there any possibility of a solution soon?

The native solutions do not copy the decoded video data to CPU memory so the CPU cannot be used to detect and discard black bars.

I don't know the specific technical reasons but it is harder to do the black bar detection on the GPU, some algorithms only run on the CPU and black bar detection is one of them. I consider it very unlikely that madshi will create a black bar detect and discard that runs on the GPU anytime soon but I do remember long ago mentions of wanting to implement madVR fully on the GPU so it is not out of the question if it is technically feasible.

[angmav]

I have an unusual question to ask and sorry if this is being asked in the wrong section is it possible to change lav filter settings from copy back to native depending on the video playback in particular I was hoping to use copy back for 23hz playback and native playback for 60hz/50hz


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lello]

I wanted to try SmoothVideo Project to try to improve the smoothness of my projector with 4k movies (frame interpolation only works with HD video) and by pure chance I found that, using SVP, black band detection also works with D3D11 decoding .

I did the double check and disabling SVP the detection no longer occurred: what is it due to?

Too bad that with SVP + madvr I can't convert 4k videos from 24 to 60hz, otherwise I would have bought it.

[huhn]

SVP is not native so there is your answer it's d4d11 copyback and that can do cropping using blackbar detection.

[lello]

And is there a way to use SVP only for blackbar detection?

[huhn]

madVR can do it without SVP just use a copyback decoder.

[lello]

Yes, of course, but as I said above, with the copyback I have problems with BD UHD: they don't really work, everything crashes :(

[huhn]

then try DXVA2 copyback or at least post the crash report/OSD from madVR.

[Asmodian]

Did you need more information than this line?

"To use simply restore madVR to default settings and place the file in the madVR program directory. madVR will automatically create or update the file with new settings if it has write access to its directory (e.g. not in "program files"). madVR will still use the registry to store these settings, along with any changes, without write access."

That should be all you need to know to get the settings.bin working.

[lello]

then try DXVA2 copyback or at least post the crash report/OSD from madVR.
This is the OSD with 2k files
https://i.ibb.co/NZdvNs2/OSD-HD.png (https://ibb.co/NZdvNs2)
and this one with 4k files.
https://i.ibb.co/rcTtv1W/OSD-UHD.png (https://ibb.co/rcTtv1W)
As you can see with UHD movies the rendering is high by activating DXVA2 copy back so, in my opinion, I can solve the problem only by replacing my RX 580 with a more powerful GPU: could an RX 5700 XT be enough?

[huhn]

that should be a bug hte UHD file should be "easier".

add a folder named Showrendersteps in the madVR folder and have a look at the more detailed rendersteps.

[Asmodian]

As you can see with UHD movies the rendering is high by activating DXVA2 copy back so, in my opinion, I can solve the problem only by replacing my RX 580 with a more powerful GPU: could an RX 5700 XT be enough?

Do you have slow HDR processing enabled? DXVA2 copy back is probably allowing more advanced HDR processing which can easily be very slow on a RX 580.

I don't know what GPU you might need for the slower HDR processing. :o

[lello]

https://i.ibb.co/tpLvSM6/OSD-UHD-2.png (https://ibb.co/tpLvSM6)

I added the Showrendersteps folder and this is the result with D3D11 selecting the device and NOT native.
By slow HDR we mean D3D11 with device selection while advanced DXVA2 copy back?
I have the problem in both cases.

I thought I could solve with a more powerful GPU because by installing madvr 0.92.17 smooth, without making any settings, the detection of the black bands works

[huhn]

the screen seems to be from paused mode so not that useful.

this could be an issue with copyback check your PCI lanes.

[Asmodian]

By slow HDR we mean D3D11 with device selection while advanced DXVA2 copy back?

No, you have madVR's more advanced HDR processing enabled which can run very slowly depending on the options chosen. It has nothing to do with DXVA/D3D11 except that some of the HDR processing does not work when using native decoding.

I thought I could solve with a more powerful GPU because by installing madvr 0.92.17 smooth, without making any settings, the detection of the black bands works

Yes, you very likely could run it with a more powerful GPU, but I don't know the minimum GPU you would need.

We might get new HDR options at some point too, and they could be faster or slower, so GPU advice for madVR is somewhat tricky. Ideally get the fastest GPU you feel comfortable with and then tune your madVR settings for your GPU. That said, you should be able to get something running smoothly on your 580.

What are your HDR options now?

[lello]

this could be an issue with copyback check your PCI lanes.

I have absolutely no idea what it is :o:

These are the HDR settings:

https://i.ibb.co/mhHsNt4/HDR-settings.png (https://ibb.co/mhHsNt4)

https://i.ibb.co/chkZvB8/Trade-quality.png (https://ibb.co/chkZvB8)

If I select "compromise on hdr tone & gamut mapping accuracy", the rendering goes down and everything works, but I lose several things of the tone mapping