madVR Options Explained

[Asmodian]

Hmm... I forgot about heat influencing performance. I am actually water cooled so the GPU never goes above ~35°C unless it is really hot inside. My stock settings were running 1860 MHz. Those rendering times look quite good but I still think you might be right on the edge of performance. :(

With madVR v0.92.14 I start seeing dropped frames with 60p content (16.67ms frames) with reported rendering times at or above ~11ms, so you do need a lot of headroom.

Dropping chroma upscaling to NGU medium, or even image upscaling to NGU high, is not a significant loss of quality. :)

[bluesam20]

Okay thanks again, I did play around with dropping the Chroma upscale to NGU AA (medium). It saved about the same amount of render time as Smooth Motion, about 3~4ms. Dropping the Luma doubling from NGU Sharp (very high) down to (high) nearly halved my render times, I think I went from around 20ms on a 1080p30 source down to 9~10ms. I was hoping maybe I missed something, but I'm glad I asked! Oh and thank you for sharing your settings file, amazing work!

[arcspin]

Hi,
I am trying to wrap my head around frame rates in hope of getting a perfect 23.976 frame rate with MadVR.
Right now I am at 23.97743Hz.
HD Fury Vertex says 23.975Hz
On the OSD (Ctrl+J) when I have both my primary PC screen on and my projector on there is information regarding "Composition rate" and that rate is at 23.979Hz.
The composition rate do not show when I turn off the primary PC screen and only use my projector.
There are a lot of different Hz showing on various OSD, is this unavoidable?
https://photos.app.goo.gl/aQwadiGSf69NkD5Z9

So my first question is what is composition rate and why is it at 23.979?


I also have, several times and almost gone mad, tried to optimize pixel clocks in the MadVR custom modes with no success, none (well I tried the first 7 optimized pixel clocks) of the pixel clocks did not take and I am back with the EDID/CTA setting.

Mind you, everything works fine with my setup and I have none or almost no frame drops or repeated frames. (I have MadVR set to PCM and not bitstreaming)
This is not my trying to solve a problem but more to understand how to improve with the help of MadVR.

My second question is if it is common to have to try several of the different optimized pixel clocks before there is a match?
https://photos.app.goo.gl/A4hKbNMccgk5EUGYA

This is my setup:
Hardware: Intel Core i5-8600K, ASUS GeForce GTX 1060 6GB DUAL (NVIDIA FW 385.28), Windows 10 Home 64-bit, version 1803
Software: JRiver 24, MadVr 0.92.14
Projector: JVC DLA-I X5500 (RS420, X570R)
Main PC Screen: AOC 4K

Scaler/Splitter: HD Fury Vertex
Top out -> Sony wireless headphones
Bot out -> JVC PJ

[Manni]

Hi,
I am trying to wrap my head around frame rates in hope of getting a perfect 23.976 frame rate with MadVR.
Right now I am at 23.97743Hz.
HD Fury Vertex says 23.975Hz
On the OSD (Ctrl+J) when I have both my primary PC screen on and my projector on there is information regarding "Composition rate" and that rate is at 23.979Hz.
The composition rate do not show when I turn off the primary PC screen and only use my projector.
There are a lot of different Hz showing on various OSD, is this unavoidable?
https://photos.app.goo.gl/aQwadiGSf69NkD5Z9

So my first question is what is composition rate and why is it at 23.979?


I also have, several times and almost gone mad, tried to optimize pixel clocks in the MadVR custom modes with no success, none (well I tried the first 7 optimized pixel clocks) of the pixel clocks did not take and I am back with the EDID/CTA setting.

Mind you, everything works fine with my setup and I have none or almost no frame drops or repeated frames. (I have MadVR set to PCM and not bitstreaming)
This is not my trying to solve a problem but more to understand how to improve with the help of MadVR.

My second question is if it is common to have to try several of the different optimized pixel clocks before there is a match?
https://photos.app.goo.gl/A4hKbNMccgk5EUGYA

This is my setup:
Hardware: Intel Core i5-8600K, ASUS GeForce GTX 1060 6GB DUAL (NVIDIA FW 382.28), Windows 10 Home 64-bit, version 1803
Software: JRiver 24, MadVr 0.92.14
Projector: JVC DLA-I X5500 (RS420, X570R)
Main PC Screen: AOC 4K

Scaler/Splitter: HD Fury Vertex
Top out -> Sony wireless headphones
Bot out -> JVC PJ

In my experience (see config in my sig below) EDID/CTA is the only option that works with the JVCs. It gives me a frame drop/repeat every hour or so in 4K23p RGB 12bits 4:4:4 which is fine. In 1080p, I have a frame drop every 3 or 4 hours.

I use 385.28 which is the last driver working with the JVCs. The more recent drivers introduce a variety of bugs, and only one improvement (for HTPC use): 3D (1080pFP) goes from one frame repeat every 3mn to one frame repeat every 13min.

[arcspin]

In my experience (see config in my sig below) EDID/CTA is the only option that works with the JVCs.

I use 385.28 which is the last driver working with the JVCs.

Great and thank you for a swift answer.
Now I know that I do not have to try more optimized settings and can settle with EDID/CTA, that is good news.



Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

[arcspin]

I use 385.28 which is the last driver working with the JVCs.

Yes, I made a typo in my original question and I too use 385.28. Many thanks to you for that.

When you deem any other FW suitable for JVC a will try a newer FW but not before you have tried and tested it to be ok.



Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

[arcspin]

It gives me a frame drop/repeat every hour or so in 4K23p RGB 12bits 4:4:4 which is fine. In 1080p, I have a frame drop every 3 or 4 hours.

Question, do you use PCM or Bitstream to your receive?

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

[Manni]

Question, do you use PCM or Bitstream to your receive?

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

Bitstream because I need Atmos, DTS:X and Auro 3D. If you don't use immersive sound, PCM is fine.

[jake9wi]

convert or process HDR content by using an external 3DLUT: Requires display calibration hardware and software to perform effectively. Possible with Argyllcms.



Would these be the same LUTs i create for color calibration??

[Asmodian]

No, these are special LUTs created for mapping HDR either to your display's HDR mode or SDR. The normal calibration LUTs are all SDR.

[Nastenka]

Hi Asmodian,

First off, thanks for your preset configs which have helped me tremendously in tweaking my settings.

I had a few more questions, though. I have a 1080 Ti as well, but my screen resolution is only 1440p. I've gone through with hardware calibration and all, therefore I am looking to tweak your settings a little more since with less upscaling to be done, shouldn't there be some more hidden potential? Since my sources are quite good, I already changed a couple upscaling NGU AAs to NGU Sharp.

Also, are your presets more of a general use case or specific, like for Anime and such?

I'd appreciate any help.

Thanks.

[Asmodian]

Watching 1080p at 1440p is actually harder than watching 1080p at 4K. For 4K you simply double it (with NGU) but with 1440p you have to downscale it afterwards. I do not think there is anything to improve for watching at 1440p.

My presets are intended to be general but I do want Anime to look good as part of that. I might chose different settings if I didn't need Anime to look good as well but it would not be very different (i.e. changing NGU AA to NGU Sharp). :)

[UMNiK]

Great guide, but I wonder if you could provide a simple table of viable settings for 720p\1080p content on a 1080p monitor, the most common scenario. It can be rather difficult to figure out which settings are completely superfluous in that case, and which algorithms aren't wasted. At the moment I'm just using all Lanczos 3 AR (LL, SL) with smooth motion if judder is detected and no extras. I assume any doubling/quadrupling is pointless, but are refinements/other algorithms? I appreciate that you have provided the settings.bin, but I'd much rather have a nice table to figure it out and have some choice myself.

[Olivier C.]

Hi,

this display is already calibrated: [BT.709, pure power curve, 2.20] This sets the current display characteristics. The gamut option affects the conversions used by madVR when playing video with different gamuts but the gamma options only have an effect when using the 'enable gamma processing' option in 'color & gamma'.

This is not totally true if HDR --> SDR conversion is used, at least with "tone map HDR using pixels shaders" option (I didn't tried other HDR options).

[huhn]

yes HDR-SDR it is inconsistent and you can get all kinds of gamma if it it used with gamma processing.

[Olivier C.]

I would to like to say that the gamma options have an effect even if the 'enable gamma processing' option in 'color & gamma' is not used at all, in case of HDR->SDR conversion

[huhn]

kind of but i still hope madshi makes it more transparent first.

[Olivier C.]

Thanks huhn

[Asmodian]

Finally updated for madVR v0.92.17.

This is not totally true if HDR --> SDR conversion is used, at least with "tone map HDR using pixels shaders" option (I didn't tried other HDR options).

Thanks! I updated that description to reflect this. :)

[Ava Pug]

Hi,

The link for Max Quality settings.bin doesn't work.

[K3ka]

Finally updated for madVR v0.92.17.



Thanks! I updated that description to reflect this. :)
Hello! Thank you for your guide.

Can you,please, reupload file with max quality settings?

[Asmodian]

Sorry, I am currently traveling and do not have access to the file where I am. :(

Edit: it looks like the link changed when I updated for 0.92.17, it doesn't usually do that. I have updated the link.

[Siso]

I just looked through your settings for max quality and low power, I'm wondering why do you use NGU anti-alias for image doubling, instead of NGU sharp?

[Asmodian]

I kept encountering content that looked weird with NGU sharp, AA seems the most universally good version of NGU.

It is especially true for lower budget anime. I am not sure what they do but it often has some damage that is not related to compression, odd aliasing on edges that NGU sharp preserves too well. I do change to NGU sharp with some content.

NGU sharp can also have a "plastic" look with some content, even live action, that doesn't happen with NGU AA.

I sit pretty close to my TV so that weird look from NGU sharp is too obvious, and NGU AA doesn't do it at all.

[70MM]

NGU sharp can also have a "plastic" look with some content, even live action, that doesn't happen with NGU AA.

I sit pretty close to my TV so that weird look from NGU sharp is too obvious, and NGU AA doesn't do it at all.

I think most people with projectors and large screens would use NGU sharp wouldnt they?

My scope screen is 145" wide, whenever I test 1080p material upscaled to 4K with madvr and displaying with my JVC NX9 I find NGU AA just too soft. Would this be a general concensus with others using 4K projectors?

[Asmodian]

It does depend on the display, please pick whatever looks best to you. My settings are simply what I think looks best, with any content, on my display under my viewing conditions. :)

I do like the extra sharpness from NGU sharp when it doesn't look weird. A lot of content looks really good with NGU sharp. I think a big part of why NGU sharp sometimes bothers me is that I am pretty close to the display, I can almost resolve pixels. If I move back several feet NGU sharp doesn't bother me nearly as often.

Also, a projector might soften the image a little, which could mitigate the aspect of NGU sharp that bothers me.

[maxkill]

It does depend on the display, please pick whatever looks best to you. My settings are simply what I think looks best, with any content, on my display under my viewing conditions. :)

I do like the extra sharpness from NGU sharp when it doesn't look weird. A lot of content looks really good with NGU sharp. I think a big part of why NGU sharp sometimes bothers me is that I am pretty close to the display, I can almost resolve pixels. If I move back several feet NGU sharp doesn't bother me nearly as often.

Also, a projector might soften the image a little, which could mitigate the aspect of NGU sharp that bothers me.
Or my guide :p

[Asmodian]

Your settings look very bad to me, to each their own I suppose. :p

My settings are intended as a place to start, with options that should look good whatever the content and that don't change the image. I have almost all processing off by default and turn it on for specific content if it needs it.

You want to smooth and sharpen the image a lot, it looks artificial to me but if you like it go for it. :)

[Siso]

I kept encountering content that looked weird with NGU sharp, AA seems the most universally good version of NGU.

It is especially true for lower budget anime. I am not sure what they do but it often has some damage that is not related to compression, odd aliasing on edges that NGU sharp preserves too well. I do change to NGU sharp with some content.

NGU sharp can also have a "plastic" look with some content, even live action, that doesn't happen with NGU AA.

I sit pretty close to my TV so that weird look from NGU sharp is too obvious, and NGU AA doesn't do it at all.

I understand, but what about NGU Standart as a medium ground between NGU AA and NGU Sharp? What do you think of it?

[giulianoprs]

I also use NGU sharp with my plasma tv and a modest AMD rx 560 (strictly 1080p file) and I must say that I am very well, thanks also to the guides present here in this forum.

[maxkill]

Your settings look very bad to me, to each their own I suppose. :p

My settings are intended as a place to start, with options that should look good whatever the content and that don't change the image. I have almost all processing off by default and turn it on for specific content if it needs it.

You want to smooth and sharpen the image a lot, it looks artificial to me but if you like it go for it. :)
Yeah I guess we all like different. People like you who like it to look as close to the source as possible even if that means a grainy image, and people like me who enjoy a smooth looking image while sacrificing a little sharpness. My guide achieves the latter beautifully imo.

[Klaus1189]

Maxkill, please don‘t idolize your settings so much. It‘s already hurting. I‘m sorry but the settings aren‘t as good as you think, so please don‘t tell us what we should do.

[Asmodian]

I understand, but what about NGU Standart as a medium ground between NGU AA and NGU Sharp? What do you think of it?

I find Standard very similar to Sharp, but not quite as sharp. ;)

Normally I use AA or Sharp. Maybe I should make a set of sharp settings files, if people are interested? I hope people modify my settings some, especially since Max Quality requires a 2080 Ti. :)

[maxkill]

Maxkill, please don‘t idolize your settings so much. It‘s already hurting. I‘m sorry but the settings aren‘t as good as you think, so please don‘t tell us what we should do.
You forgot so say: In your oppinion. Since I have tried both settings I know I prefer mine BIGTIME and I am correct that it creates a smoother image. If you like grainy image that's totally fine, I sure as hell don't. :cool:
I think people should have the option to use which ever settings they like, if you like grainy use this if you don't use mine, simple as that.
edit: Also I never told anyone what to do, I am all for free choice so stop the lying please that's low.

[Klaus1189]

I never told anyone what to do, I am all for free choice so stop the lying please that's low.

1. You told us by starting a thread with the title „Optimal 4k settings for smoother image MadVR, enjoy!!“ which suggests to use your holy settings.
2. I am not lying, just look at the reactions in your thread, so many guys who don‘t like it.
3. I did not say that your settings are not good, but I did say that the settings are not as good as you think these are, otherwise you would not always write, when one thinks other than you, you write BUT I DO LIKE IT.
4. Please read your posts and think about it, simply don‘t ideolize it anymore so much. I didn‘t wrote anything else.

That is just hurting so much to read. Please stop it. Thanks.

[huhn]

so when klaus states his opinion so he is a lying and if you do that you are just stating an opinion?

[maxkill]

1. You told us by starting a thread with the title „Optimal 4k settings for smoother image MadVR, enjoy!!“ which suggests to use your holy settings.
2. I am not lying, just look at the reactions in your thread, so many guys who don‘t like it.
3. I did not say that your settings are not good, but I did say that the settings are not as good as you think these are, otherwise you would not always write, when one thinks other than you, you write BUT I DO LIKE IT.
4. Please read your posts and think about it, simply don‘t ideolize it anymore so much. I didn‘t wrote anything else.

That is just hurting so much to read. Please stop it. Thanks.
For a smoother image I am stating it is best yes. And I have proof of that aswell.

You are claiming I try to tell people what they should like. This is a false statement and a lie. If people prefer a grainy image there is nothing wrong with that. I am merely trying to give people the option of a smoother image.
If people who love a grainy image attack me in the thread has little to do with the effectiveness of the setting.

[DMU]

Normally I use AA or Sharp.
Well, why NGU AA does not work in quadrupling (4x) mode like NGU Soft/Standard/Sharp for image upscaling?
Pic (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1QqNN_MxPeQ4RUJ-vDuMsvx5mkvRqvz9V)

[huhn]

it's just used 2 times which is fine too.

[Klaus1189]

You are claiming I try to tell people what they should like. This is a false statement and a lie.

I never claimed that, I never did a false statement and I never lied. Please read my post again. The proof is when you get my point. And this is exactly the point. You write so much and say nothing. And if somebody has another opinion you write he/she is a lyer. You really don‘t seem to don‘t get my point, silly me, at least I tried to get you to get down on earth „MrIknowitall“.

To summarize and repeat it, perhaps you get it sometimes when you realize that your holy settings aren‘t as good as you think.

You also have your ridiculous noob thread in your signature. Lol. This is a proove for your problem. The users don‘t need your noob settings and do yourself a favor and don‘t attack users this way.

Please read the reactions in your noob thread. The users don‘t like it.

I have my own settings, but I don‘t create a thread because I think these only define my personal taste and don‘t help anybody, stick with Asmodians settings and tune it if you want to your personal taste as I did.

But please stop acting this way. You don‘t help anybody with your hurtful way. You don‘t get what others write here and seem to need it to hurt these who have another opinion.

Please stop, simply stop. Enough said, but I am sure you will again write hurtful nonsense. If I would be a moderator, you would be blocked for a short period of time to post new stuff, perhaps this will help.

I apologize for this post but it seems you simply don‘t get it with other words.
Sorry ...

[maxkill]

I can not see any difference from enabling chrome upscaling to max and switching to cubic or dxva on option.

I hear you might need to set the LAV Video up, is this true, do you really need this to run MadVR? I was to check that it the LAV Video was in the D3D11 setting so I tried that but no effect after installing.

I also reinstalled MadVR just to check and tried two different players. I can not tell from on and off of highest settings of chrome on a UHD file.

Must be something wrong right? Interestingly I do get the extra computer load.
I'm thinking the difference between on highest setting and off should be quite big or..?
I'm currently because of this running with DVXA on still looks great, but would be nice to test the other settings if in fact they are not being shown in my setup after enabling them.

[Asmodian]

Well, why NGU AA does not work in quadrupling (4x) mode like NGU Soft/Standard/Sharp for image upscaling?

madshi never made a NGU AA to do quadrupling, as simple as that. :)

Edit: As huhn said, 2x twice is a good option. It is even slightly higher quality than direct 4x with the other NGUs, though it is also quite a bit slower. It is nice to use very high for the first 2x and high for the second.

[maxkill]

I never claimed that, I never did a false statement and I never lied. Please read my post again. The proof is when you get my point. And this is exactly the point. You write so much and say nothing. And if somebody has another opinion you write he/she is a lyer. You really don‘t seem to don‘t get my point, silly me, at least I tried to get you to get down on earth „MrIknowitall“.

To summarize and repeat it, perhaps you get it sometimes when you realize that your holy settings aren‘t as good as you think.

You also have your ridiculous noob thread in your signature. Lol. This is a proove for your problem. The users don‘t need your noob settings and do yourself a favor and don‘t attack users this way.

Please read the reactions in your noob thread. The users don‘t like it.

I have my own settings, but I don‘t create a thread because I think these only define my personal taste and don‘t help anybody, stick with Asmodians settings and tune it if you want to your personal taste as I did.

But please stop acting this way. You don‘t help anybody with your hurtful way. You don‘t get what others write here and seem to need it to hurt these who have another opinion.

Please stop, simply stop. Enough said, but I am sure you will again write hurtful nonsense. If I would be a moderator, you would be blocked for a short period of time to post new stuff, perhaps this will help.

I apologize for this post but it seems you simply don‘t get it with other words.
Sorry ...
1. I would suggest you improve your english, it is quite hard to understand what you are driving for here..
2. That's like, just your oppinion man.
3. Tell you what, take your head out of the sand and actually apply my bin file and choose a scene with some grain in it, take a picture of that scene with my settings, then set the player to default and take a picture, then go to my thread and post these there and tell me why I am mistaken and I'll listen to what ya have to say.

[Klaus1189]

I was already in the US for several weeks and the people understood me fine. I suggest to improove your english, perhaps you understand what I am writing about.

In my opinion it is enough, because the users saw your real face. I don‘t want to mess around with your settings anymore. Your behavior is ridiculous. Now forcing me to improve your settings, no thanks. If I am a lyer, why do you need my opinion. Lol.

Your behavior is ridiculous. Bye.

[maxkill]

I was already in the US for several weeks and the people understood me fine. I suggest to improove your english, perhaps you understand what I am writing about.

In my opinion it is enough, because the users saw your real face. I don‘t want to mess around with your settings anymore. Your behavior is ridiculous. Now forcing me to improve your settings, no thanks. If I am a lyer, why do you need my opinion. Lol.

Your behavior is ridiculous. Bye.
I respect you, alright. But you have 0 actual arguments, just predetermined thoughts and beliefs. If you wanna live your life that way that's fine my man. I think if you are going to accuse me of something you should be able to back that up is all.

[Klaus1189]

I have my own settings, but I don‘t create a thread because I think these only define my personal taste and don‘t help anybody, stick with Asmodians settings and tune it if you want to your personal taste as I did.

Already said: It is all personal taste, your thread doesn‘t help anybody, it wasn’t me who want to convince anybody with my settings, it is you.

Summary: Do the same, enjoy your personal settings, but don‘t praise your settings with the thread here which is also in your signature. I never said anything else, but please be more modest.

Bye, perhaps you know NOW what „bye“ means.

[maxkill]

Already said: It is all personal taste, your thread doesn‘t help anybody, it wasn’t me who want to convince anybody with my settings, it is you.

Summary: Do the same, enjoy your personal settings, but don‘t praise your settings with the thread here which is also in your signature. I never said anything else, but please be more modest.

Bye, perhaps you know NOW what „bye“ means.
Oh so it is personal taste now? Didn't sound like that just a moment ago, good!
It doesn't help anybody? Tell me how you came to this conclusion please, would be very interesting to know.

I will praise my settings if I want. I think they are great.
You should try not telling other people what to do and not do, people don't generally like that, just a tip. Practise accepting things as they are.

[Asmodian]

I also wish you would not promote your settings here, they are so much in the wrong direction from what I think is good practice they almost seem like a parody.

They also seem like settings made by someone very new to quality video on PC and madVR. I see these overprocessed videos a lot and find it depressing. :(

If you like it fine, you can use your settings, but expect pushback if you promote them. I am just expressing my opinion too. I don't want doom9 promoting bad newb madVR settings as great after all. :p

[maxkill]

I also wish you would not promote your settings here, they are so much in the wrong direction from what I think is good practice they almost seem like a parody.

They also seem like settings made by someone very new to quality video on PC and madVR. I see these overprocessed videos a lot and find it depressing. :(

If you like it fine, you can use your settings, but expect pushback if you promote them. I am just expressing my opinion too. I don't want doom9 promoting bad newb madVR settings as great after all. :p
Look, I appreciate your settings Asmodian. They are just not for me. I have explained the purpose of my settings many times now.
You liken my settings to a parody? There is a flip side to that coin. And that is that I can say the exact same thing about your settings.

Think about it like this. Do most people who play video games like a pixelated image or a smooth looking image?
This is the same thing if you think about it. I don't think most people would prefer a pixelated image.
The hardcore 'true content looking material lovers' that seem to overrepresent this section of this forum yes, but not most people I don't think so.
The other thing is, what you and some people say about the settings are nothing but loose statements such as 'well that doesn't look good' or 'no your settings are wrong'. No one ever provided a resonable explanation as to WHY smoothing of the picture must be so bad.
To me it's great because it removes the pixelated areas in the image creating a 'looking out window effect'. You can not achieve this with a pixelated image, you will see the pixels. Do you get this argument at all?

[huhn]

pixelated is an artifact that usualy come from sharpening, low resolution and not using an blurring effect like AA on games yes AA makes games less sharp which is working as intended "nothing" is sharper then aliasing.

and you want a reasonable explanation why your settings are "wrong". well that pretty simple and can be objectively proven.

a movie is created on an calibrated screen and so other user with an calibrated screen will get the same image from the mastering screen. this makes it objectively a correct image and settings that recreate this image are so objectively "correct".

your settings doesn't do that which makes them incorrect.