DVD-Audio ripper [Archive] - Page 6

frenchglen

20th April 2008, 16:32

If someone is interested this is very raw prototype of Winamp MLP/TrueHD decoder plugin: http://www.sendspace.com/file/f5jrux
Wonderful! Excellent.

I have tried many MLP tracks of almost every bitdepth, resolution and channel configuration, and they all work. Also tried very large MLP files (whole albums I joined up and long pink floyd tracks) and they are fine too, seeking is just as fast! + I really like the downmix info you've added in file info dialog! :)

And lastly, gapless playback - I tried out the beatles love album. There appears to be a little click in between the tracks (at the beginning of each track I think), track 3 into track 4 is a good example to try and hear it. I've tried flacs of the same tracks and joining the MLPs, which don't have the click.

dizziness

22nd April 2008, 21:14

Beta 1: http://www.sendspace.com/file/ezrzeo
Changes:
1. Stereo downmix extraction supported.
2. "Recover from stream errors" option added.
3. Threads syncronization bug fixed.

Great work! Finally I am ripping the 2-ch hi-res from my LOTR discs.

As far as multichannel, how about encoding with tsremuxer and a dummy video channel onto a mini BluRay disc (DVD-5)? I haven't given it a go as I'm ripping discs like mad here. This would appear the ideal way to back up our DVD-A to BD for posterity and multichannel playback without a HTPC.

Ideas?

mommyman

23rd April 2008, 07:47

This would appear the ideal way to back up our DVD-A to BD for posterity and multichannel playback without a HTPC.
At the first glimpse this looks like pretty smart ass idea of backing up watermarked content:) Untll BD players don't care about watermarking... But seems that the multichannel PCM is the only option for BD because TrueHD is not exactly the same as MLP and MLP to TrueHD conversion cannot be done by patching the stream.

dizziness

23rd April 2008, 21:54

Great work! Finally I am ripping the 2-ch hi-res from my LOTR discs.?

Has anyone had success ripping SideA from The Lord of the Rings Return of the King? I must have a bad piece of media (which is bad news as its OOP.) I scavenged the web with no luck to replace the media.

At first I thought it was DVDAExplorer but I can't even rip an image without errors. It has problems at the layer flip which is in the 2-ch group. Harumpf.

dizziness

23rd April 2008, 21:55

At the first glimpse this looks like pretty smart ass idea of backing up watermarked content:) Untll BD players don't care about watermarking... But seems that the multichannel PCM is the only option for BD because TrueHD is not exactly the same as MLP and MLP to TrueHD conversion cannot be done by patching the stream.

I used TSRemuxer 1.7 to make a BDMV folder for burning successfully with a 6-ch WAV ripped from LOTR:ROTK DVD-A, all burnt to a DVD-9.

Here we are, ripping DVD-A>BD losslessly! Now I just need a decent BD player with multichannel decoding to test the disc. My first choice was a PS3 40GB (for SACD playback) but I don't have a surround receiver with HDMI (for multichannel PCM.) Here's hoping that Oppo gets their universal BD/DVD player built ASAP.

I am concerned about channel mapping from WAV>BD but this can be fixed with eac3to if need be.

jolson

24th April 2008, 15:21

BTW, wasn't SACD playback removed from the 40GB version?

DragonQ

27th April 2008, 15:51

Hi all,

Firstly, great job on the beta! :) I do have a question though - why is it that when using the stereo downmix option the resulting file is so quiet? The loudest song on the album I am ripping barely hits -6db meaning there's wasted resolution there (and I have to turn my speakers up more than should be necessary).

I could do the downmix myself but it would take a long time using Adobe Audition or something. Is there a reason the downmix is so quiet or is it a mistake?

Hancoque

27th April 2008, 16:17

To avoid clipping you have to lower the amplitude of the resulting signal by how many input channels you mix into one output channel.

This is the normal 5.1 to stereo downmixing matrix:
|Lf|Rf|C |LFE|Ls |Rs
-+--+--+------+---+------+------
L|1 | |0.7071|0 |0.7071|0
R| |1 |0.7071|0 |0 |0.7071
Thus, the sum for each output channel is 2.4142 (1 + 0.7071 + 0.7071) or +7.655 dB. To compensate for this you have to divide the amplitude of the output channels by this sum. Then the highest possible amplitude would be 1 (0 dB). This is about making the process clipping-proof. But in reality 0 dB is rarely reached because to achieve that every input channel has to have an amplitude of 0 dB at the same sample location. Therefore it's absolutely normal to have peaks much below 0 dB.

I don't know how the program does the downmixing as I don't use it, but it would be ideal to do it in 32-bit floating point and also save the output in this format to avoid quantization errors. If this is not already the case, regard it as a feature suggestion.

By the way: I use foobar2000 with the Matrix Mixer DSP plugin to do the downmixing (in 32-bit floating point). Afterwards I normalize the material with a small command line tool, I wrote myself (also in 32-bit floating point). It is able to normalize multiple files while keeping their relative volume to each other (album normalization). Quality-wise there is no room for improvement. :)

bertox

28th April 2008, 01:19

mommyman:

Please upload both files to Mediafire or Rapidshare...

....SendSpace don't works!!!!! He allways ever says: 'Sorry, the free service is at full capacity.'

Please, thank you.

mommyman

28th April 2008, 07:50

:
....SendSpace don't works!!!!! He allways ever says: 'Sorry, the free service is at full capacity.'
SendSpace seems to be ok by now. Maybe, that was temporarily.
DragonQ
Downmixes are so silent because they were produced in that way. The default downmix Lf/Rf coefficients for SurCode MLP Encoder are -6dB. This is the point, probably...

bertox

29th April 2008, 04:32

SendSpace seems to be ok by now. Maybe, that was temporarily.

Days and days without work....this is not temporal...

Please...:confused:

mommyman

29th April 2008, 06:24

DVDAE: http://rapidshare.com/files/111192252/DVDAExplorer2008.04.16.zip.html
Winamp MLP/TrueHD Decoder: http://www.winamp.com/plugins/search/?q=TrueHD
Норе these sites will be ok...

bertox

29th April 2008, 09:51

Yeeeaaahhh!!!! ;)

Hancoque

1st May 2008, 18:33

@mommyman: I've studied the MLP documentation (http://ecmc.rochester.edu/ecmc/docs/mlp.pdf) a bit and now see that a 6 channel stream might also provide dedicated information for a stereo downmix. I wasn't aware of that before. Does DVD-Audio Explorer fully adhere to that specification? And would it be possible to show the downmix coefficients in the program or at least if default or custom settings have been used?

Edit: I just tested the downmix feature with the seven DVD-Audio discs I own. Only two of them featured a downmix substream and one of them had audible artefacts in the downmix (crackling noise).

DragonQ

2nd May 2008, 14:09

Crackling in the downmix is usually due to clipping. I also wonder if there's a way to see if there's an included downmix coefficient table on the disc, or even to customise the table manually within the table - that would be a great feature for Beta 2 (hint hint :P)!

The other problem with downmixes is some tracks might have out-of-phase elements (usually vocals) but there's nothing you can do about that. On the DVD-A I ripped there's about 3 of 26 tracks that feature a noticable out of phase vocal.

Hancoque

2nd May 2008, 14:33

It's not related to clipping as the highest peak of the affected tracks doesn't even reach 60%. The crackling noise only appears at the beginning and end of these tracks (3 out of 14). On one track it vanishes exactly when the drums start playing. Might it be that some channels start later than others and therefore have no information (random data) until a certain point in time?

DragonQ

2nd May 2008, 15:12

Unlikely...it might just be a bad rip. Have you tried ripping it to 5.1 and trying your own downmixes or just listening to each of the channels around the point where there is crackling to see if it exists on the main 5.1 mix?

Hancoque

2nd May 2008, 15:18

I have also done a full 5.1 rip. It doesn't show those problems. So, it's definitely related to the downmixing process of DVD-A Explorer.

DragonQ

2nd May 2008, 23:08

Can you open one of the the downmixed files in Adobe Audition or Audacity or something similar and post a screenshot?

Hancoque

3rd May 2008, 01:22

http://www.devir.de/temp/dvdae-downmix1.png

http://www.devir.de/temp/dvdae-downmix2.png

http://www.devir.de/temp/dvdae-downmix3.png

DragonQ

3rd May 2008, 01:41

Hmm. That is very strange, it must be a bug in the program's downmixing code. Hopefully the guy who wrote it will try to help you. :)

Wraul

3rd May 2008, 14:43

First I want to thank mommyman for the continued development of this wonderful application. The additions has made the process to rip my DVD-A discs so much more enjoyable.

I was also very happy to see that the source code was included.
This enabled me to compile a version for Mac OS X.

The Beta 1 binary can be found here (Mac OS X Universal) http://www.sendspace.com/file/r9520u

I never worked with Qt before and have very little experience with Mac development. Hopefully I've done everything correct. The files I've tested produced identical result as the windows version.

mommyman

4th May 2008, 10:23

I have also done a full 5.1 rip. It doesn't show those problems. So, it's definitely related to the downmixing process of DVD-A Explorer.

Amazingly, surcode encoder gives the same crackling sound in downmixed output:() Some of the tracks are a bit shorter when decoded by surcode, but don't differ (except length) from their DVDAE partners. Still haven't found an explatation of these facts. Seems that problem must be in mlp track itself...

frenchglen

4th May 2008, 14:32

DragonQ

4th May 2008, 16:35

I converted the stereo downmix to WMA Lossless for storage but I've kept the 5.1 mixes in WAV so I can make remixes from them :D.

mommyman

5th May 2008, 12:11

And would it be possible to show the downmix coefficients in the program or at least if default or custom settings have been used?
I've been playing a bit with matrixing stage of mlp decoder and can say that the answer is rather negative.

borndevil

5th May 2008, 23:24

Wraul

6th May 2008, 14:37

thank you, thank you, thank you!
it worked perfectly on leopard, and many many thanks to all those will contribute to this awesome project!
:thanks:

I know what a pain in the but it can be with these kind of specialist programs only being writen for windows. It is so boring to reboot into Windows every time you want to rip a DVD-A (Well ok it dosen't happen that often with the minimal number of DVD-A releases). Anyway when I saw that the source was released I thought I should make my part and make DVD-A one of the few exceptions.

I just wish I could run EAC in OS X and I no more reboots to Windows for me.

Glad someone more than me appreciate to run DVD-A native in OS X.

You should direct most of your thanks towards mommyman that made this possible by open the source and using qt when programing.

Ohrnator

15th May 2008, 19:40

Hey,

first of all thank you for this great program, simple and effective!:thanks:

So far I ripped several of my discs and it worked great, only Metallica's Black Album doesn't work. I just want the 2-channel tracks and the log says

[32] ### MLP Stream (channels: 2, sample_rate: 96000, bits_per_sample: 24) ###
[16] Substream 0 parity check failed
[16] Substream 0 checksum failed
[16] Substream 0 data indicated length goes off end of packet.
[16] IIR filter order 12 is greater than maximum 8

Is there a workaround for that or should I wait for a new version?

Thanks again

Ohrnator

15th May 2008, 21:47

Didn't do, created a wav file with only 8 kb. Now the log's very big and mostly with this info

[32] ### Looking for major sync (length: 2013) ###
[16] ### Recovering from stream error (bytes skipped: 22032) ###
[16] Major sync info header checksum error
[16] Major sync info header checksum error
[32] ### Looking for major sync (length: 3935) ###

It wrote to send a bug report to the ffmpeg site.

frenchglen

16th May 2008, 14:08

Hopefully this issue will be resolved sooner of later. One disc that I have, "American Beauty" by Grateful Dead, also has troubles with track 2 (I wonder if anyone else has this disc and has that problem).
An alternative for now would be to just extract the MLP without decoding, and play it in Winamp using mommyman's plugin (http://www.winamp.com/plugins/details/221516).

---------
Hey mommyman, because I'm not too savvy with the command-line switch syntax, what would you reccomend for someone who wanted to downconvert the tracks to WMA/MP3/AAC etc?
It might be good to write a list of recommended free encoders, and their respective command lines. Also can it be done with dBPoweramp?

mommyman

16th May 2008, 19:10

Hey mommyman, because I'm not too savvy with the command-line switch syntax, what would you reccomend for someone who wanted to downconvert the tracks to WMA/MP3/AAC etc?
It might be good to write a list of recommended free encoders, and their respective command lines. Also can it be done with dBPoweramp?
Frankly, I'm not very experienced with these encoders too. As I know dBPoweramp has command-line interface CoreConverter.exe which can be used with DVDAE.

jolson

20th May 2008, 11:17

Foobar2000 (with plugins) is good for converting between most formats, but I guess you would need to save as WAV/FLAC first. Are you thinking of downsampling multi-channel to stereo at the same time?

Ohrnator

21st May 2008, 18:56

Will there be a plugin to play mlp in foobar, too? Because I'm done with Winamp and don't want to install it again just to hear one of my discs.

Hancoque

21st May 2008, 19:23

Why don't you just convert the files to FLAC? You will even get smaller files.

Ohrnator

21st May 2008, 22:42

You should read my earlier posts: I can't convert the mlp to another format, at least not with the latest version and also not with discwelder chrome...

mommyman

5th June 2008, 09:20

Beta 2: http://www.sendspace.com/file/b0vv8b

Changes: Beta 1 => Beta 2:

1. Build with Qt v4.4 library.
2. "Select All" tracks option added.
3. Audio watermark detection utility added.

Fireye

11th June 2008, 02:04

Amazing job, I was hoping that DVD-A ripping would eventually be this easy!

rasth

21st June 2008, 23:38

Has anyone cracked a SACD yet?

xkodi

22nd June 2008, 00:04

Has anyone cracked a SACD yet?

from the wikipedia article about SACD:

https://www.dvdupgrades.ch/product/Modification/SPDIF/Output/Six_channel_S_P_DIF_output_board/24308.html

gfxnow

22nd June 2008, 05:45

I've heard sony was going to release vaio computers capable of decoding DSD and playing SACDs.
They have this software called Sony DSD Direct Player (scroll down a little):
http://vaio-online.sony.com/prod_info/vgn-fz15g/software.html
It also lets you burn DVDs to create "DSD discs" (basically SACD format on a dvd disc) which can be played on the Playstation 3 and possibly on some combo players.

mommyman

22nd June 2008, 15:52

frenchglen

23rd June 2008, 01:02

Then SONY should have developed some special DVD/SACD combo drive for this model. That would cost SONY a fortune... Now there is an affordable DVD player Pioneer DV-600AV which can output DSD through HDMI. In tandem with HDMI input capable audio card it probably could be used to capture DSD.
I guess they should have. They've just been so worried about piracy, but instead thy should be allowing their users to have a bit more usability with the format and play on PC. And enjoy DSD for what it is.

You have said that someone who has the time and motivation just needs to create a special "DSD" protocol stack on the iLink/firewire connection, and use a receiver's certificate from firmware to authenticate and allow the DSD stream. I'm not sure how this could work with HDMI, but I know the Asus HDAV1.3 coming out next month, has one HDMI input jack (although only officially meant for video signal input).
Does this help? I'm assuming one would need to create modded driver/firmware for the card, write some sort of DSD implementation (source filter?) so that you can allow input and playback back to the receiver over HDMI bitstream...because DSD is so rare in the PC market, they're not going to support it in official drivers yet, I can almost guarantee.

jolson

23rd June 2008, 10:14

Hehe. mommyman, shall I say what is actually possible on the horizon (but that someone needs to just do the work needed ;))?

To give a hint, rasth:
If someone manages to rip an "SACD image" from an SACD, you can't possibly burn it back to an "SACD DVD-R" - at least if you want it to play back on your SACD player (which is kinda the whole point).
Well, there are several different possible points... :)
My DVD-Audio player is so much better than my SACD-capable DVD player, that my SACD almost never get played. I would like my SACD's converted to either DVD-Audio discs, "mini-Blu-rays" (Blu-ray structured discs on DVD9's, readable on standalone Blu-ray players) or highres, multichannel FLAC.

The old Denon 2800 universal players were said to be easy to rebuild to get digital audio out, so some newer Pioneer players. But especially the Pioneer players are a bit too low quality...

jolson

23rd June 2008, 10:16

Then SONY should have developed some special DVD/SACD combo drive for this model. That would cost SONY a fortune...
Didn't the earlier PS3's have such a drive?

mommyman

23rd June 2008, 20:05

because DSD is so rare in the PC market, they're not going to support it in official drivers yet, I can almost guarantee.
Even worse. If they don't use DSD capable HDMI receiver chip then this game is over.

2 jolson
I don't know about PS3 drive. But what DVD drives SONY's DSD aware VAIOs use?

2 gfxnow
Didn't find any mention of SACD in VGN-FZ15G specs.

frenchglen

24th June 2008, 22:37

Even worse. If they don't use DSD capable HDMI receiver chip then this game is over.
I suppose so. The fact the the Auzentech prelude card supports stereo DSD may offer some hope. I wonder how or when we can find out what chips they use...

ron spencer

25th June 2008, 12:17

@frenchglen

thanks for the manuals!!!!

gfxnow

25th June 2008, 12:34

@mommyman
sorry my post was a bit confusing, i said i've heard sony is going to release a SACD capable VAIO computer.
The VGN-FZ15G link was only about the DSD direct player, which shows that there is software support for DSD on their laptops, so perhaps a model might come out with a DVD/SACD/etc combo drive (like the one in the earlier Playstation 3s).

On a side note i wonder if it is possible to hack/take-out the older SACD-supporting PS3 drive and get it to work with a PC, like what people did with the xbox hddvd drive.

Foul

27th June 2008, 08:22

Firstly Hi to everyone, long time lurker, short term member :)

Secondly @ Mommyman, fantastic job on DVDA explorer, since I moved to a HTPC I have had very limited success with getting various software players to play my DVDA's. I have now ripped all but two discs to WAV then to Flac high quality multi channel and am now enjoying them on a regular basis. I use Winamp in 24bit mode with my Auzentech Prelude in Audio (bitmatched 96khz) mode and the results are spectacular!

The two discs I haven't ripped seem to have two audio groups on the disc within each track and when I try to rip them I get the message 'encrypted stream'. The two discs are The blueman group - The complex and Foo Fighters - One by One. (before anyone asks, i do own these original disc's and simply want to back them up to format I can actually use)

I have tried ticking and unticking all options. If I ignore stream encryption I get files that around 105k in size, is there a fix or enhancement for this coming soon do you think? Has anyone else had success with discs like these please?

Cheers

Nick