DVD-Audio ripper

[calinb]

Piracy is an issue, but what happens with ligitimate uses?

What happens when the industry rip off our right to make copies?

Rub
What happens to me is I stop buying!!! (I hope the pilgolopolists are monitoring this forum!) I bought a couple of DVD-As once, but stopped as soon as I realized the fomat was completely unfair. Ditto for iTunes! If the pigos won't play fair and if the pigos, with their big legal budgets, can shut down the 3rd party tools that enable fair options for the consumer, I won't open my wallet. (Thanks for hosting, however briefly, rjamorim! :thanks: )

Okay, I know a rant is getting a bit off thread, but this is the thread the pigos will be monitoring and they need to hear how they are killing a major consumer base. Face it, mp3 file sharers don't care about audio quality! Who is buying your DVD-As, you stupid pigos! (DVD-As are not exactly flying off the shelves!) It's not the mp3 file sharers. Get a clue!

[drmih]

I had a play with the tools and found them partially successful, but obviously in need of more development - maybe this will never happen.

Using dvdaripper you can create the file structure again on your HDD, and assuming that the AUDIO_TS and if you want it VIDEO_TS directories are under 4.38 Gb (I'm too mean to waste dual layers on this) you can burn a compliant disc using GEAR Pro Mastering. This disc will play fine on a pc, or if you mount the files as an iso image on your HDD, without burning the disc. However, when played in a standalone dvd-A player, because of the watermarks, all the functionality is there but when you play a track it either 'mutes' or stops as soon as a watermark is reached.

If you look at the programme dvdaexplorer, this looks at the structure of the disc and allows each mlp track to be seperated out - I'm assuming that the watermarks are still in place. There is an option to convert to a wav file, but this is always greyed out - perhaps a future enhancement. Technically there are programmes, such as Sonic DVD-Audio Creator, which will process mlp files. It has a function that takes each track and creates a RAW and xms? file for each mlp track, but I haven't got a clue how to use this and so have stopped there - I don't know if after this processing that the watermarks are cleaned out.

ppcmripper extracts wav files from the original dvd-audio disc. This seems to work okay but only extracts 2 channel wav files. The documentation says that if the disc is first ripped (I'm assuming using dvdaripper) that the multichannels can also be converted to wav. However, the programme does not have the option to select an input directory (it defaults to the disc drive), so you have to either convert the ripped files to an iso, or burn a disc. I tried this but even then the programme still only produced 2 channel waves.

I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has had a play.

[bern]

@calinb Yes me too. I stopped buying DVD's from these ripoff merchants a good while ago. I wait for them to come on Skytv, record them complete with AC3 surround and make my own dvd's. As For Audio theres nothing of interest for me on them. The only CD's I buy these days are direct from the Musician ( I am into Irish trad music and I know most of the musicians anyway being one myself). That way the Musician actually gets paid for his work.

[RevMarzikins]

If anyone had yet to download the tools before they and all traces of their info disappeared from Rarewares you can have a second chance at getting them here (http://rapidshare.de/files/2920487/DVDAudio-Tools.zip.html).

If however this is now illegal and not allowed on here then I do apologise.

[powderkegz]

Interesting development.

I've been doing this for a while though, a different way. Now please forgive the following ignorant question:

I work on a laptop with a Creative Audigy 2 PCMICA sound card - what's the difference between the results you get using this method and just recording "What U Hear" using the Audigy soundcard? Or perhaps a similar situation for someone not familiar with the card - using a digital output to a digital input on a separate computer and recording the result on that second computer?

Thanks,
powderkegz

[drmih]

I'm not sure about computer sound cards but as I understand it the only way to get multi-channel sound from a dvd-audio is via seperate connections for each channel - if you have a dvd-audio or sacd player, then you have to connect them to your amp using 5.1 cables - you can't just use optical or coaxial as they can't carry the channels - with dvd-video you output an encoded signal, such as DD or DTS to the amp via a coaxial and it does the decoding to multi channels - this isn't the case with dvd-audio - I think. Therefore, if you're using a pc, you'd have to be able to output and input 5.1 channels to capture the necessary wav files. With this method, as it's all done 'internally' on disc, this isn't a problem, although watermarking is.

[Morbo]

You can't...

First DVD-A software players KILL your digital out(they don;t work on standalones either).

Unless your uber rich and have access to a Denon Top of the line amp.....

And even then,the amp will only talk to Denon players for doing that purpose.

DVD-A is the most closed format EVER,bar none.

I do keyboards and sounds for bands,and I have access to ALOT of equipment.

And I can't make one either,....from scratch.

If your into the 6 channel format,go DTS or SACD........specifically DTS.

I love SACD(being a DSD fan).....it's closed too....but the stereo mix usually benefits from the remaster too.....

I gave up Hi FI for computers,and I still thank myself for never being interested in DVD-A or SACD really......and that's a shame,because I love audio gear.......and I have a really nice 5.1 system......but I only buy DTS discs.....because that's all I can play....and....It doesn;t use those analog cables....AT ALL.

Only my DIshTV is hooked up analog into my Onkyo.

Sorry for the rant......

BUt I feel even more sorry that DVD-a is staying shut....a waste really.

[drmih]

No quite impossible. The present rippers will give you the wav files but they still contain the watermark - okay on pcs but cause muting on standalones. It would then be necessary to remove the watermarks from each wave file. This has been done by several 'groups' as a test by identifying the differences between wav files with and without the watermark. I'm not sure if there is an automated programme for removing them but it is possible - read technical papers such as:

"An Attempt on hacking HackSDMI by SnakeByte [ SnakeByte_at_kryptocrew.de ] "

I'm only technically interested in this topic, rather than someone who wants, or owns loads of dvd-audio discs, so can't be bothered to edit the wavs myself or write a programme using the techniques mentioned in the above document.

[SeeMoreDigital]

So are we saying it's not possible just yet to convert a watermarked multi-channel DVD-A to a multi-channel lossless format... And then if we wanted, back to "un-watermarked" multi-channel DVD-A?


Cheers

[calinb]

<snip> However, when played in a standalone dvd-A player, because of the watermarks, all the functionality is there but when you play a track it either 'mutes' or stops as soon as a watermark is reached.
"Anti-piracy" measures and DRM is more about requiring consumers to buy the compatible hardware ($$$) than protecting copyrights! I won't buy a DVD-A player either!

@bern - agreed! what I will buy is music straight from the musician!

[rubycon]

As I said earlier:

High quality Stereo (24/96) can be put on a DVD even if watermarked, using DVD-VIDEO and using the PCM wave as sountrack on a blank movie ( to spend the minimum amount of space in the video part)

High quality surround using a watermarked surce is possible by converting the wave( 24/96) to 48K/24 and then to DTS. This soundtrack can be, then, used on a blank video. This is not a lossless solution but it is high quality anyway. IN some DVD audio there is a DTS track for DVD-V compatibility and that part is rippable with the actual means, so only the stereo part is needed.

All this takes time, and is more inconvenient than mere ripping but it is possible since DVD-V does not check watermarking if its sountrack.

One thing about analog connections. Of course a digital connection will give the optimum solution, but if this is not possible because the DVD-A dosn't allow it I don't see any problem with the use of analog.

I can record 6 channel analog ( 24/96) to my computer with a signal to noise ratio of 118 DB. Nobody on earth can hear down to 118 dB. In fact most of the recordings don't go that far and background nose is greather than 110dB.

I bet no one is able to tell by the sound which is the copy and which the original.


Rub

[drmih]

I'm new to all of this audio stuff and have only been looking at it for a day or so since the tools appeared. As I see it the Holy Grail would be lossless audio from the dvd-audio source. So far these tools can do this but because the watermark is in place they aren't compatible with standalone dvd-audio players - this doesn't seem to be a problem for pc solutions although it has been said on here that the dvd-audio players don't put out lossless multi-channel sound, even if you have a soundcard with 5.1 / 6.1 / 7.1 connections - is this true?

Therefore you can have track files, either mlp or wav which are lossless, can be used for reauthoring, but have watermarks. No doubt, if the watermarks could be removed it wouldn't take someone long to write a programme to 'clone' dvd-audio discs, although having a disc with basic re-authored lossless tracks would probably be fine for most people. I've had a read about the watermarks and I think the following are true, but expert advice would be good to have:

1) the watermark must be in the audio as they remain across different formats.
2) a wave file can withstand a certain amount of tinkering (normalising etc) without loosing the watermarks - however reversing the wav stops them having an effect - not much use for the audio, but the watermark must have a signature which is sequential.
3) when hackers were invited to break the system, one of the conditions was that the audio remained lossless - therefore it suggests that too much meddling with the sound wave will also make the watermark unrecognisable.
4) the watermark can't be too 'big', otherwise it could be heard, and it can't be too high or low pitch, otherwise it would be easy to filter out.
5) they seem to occur at 15 sec intervals.

Are there any clever bods out there who can add some clarification?

[Andrey]

1) the watermark must be in the audio as they remain across different formats.
Yes they are. On the early stage encoding such an mp3 could easily kill it, but nowdays it seems that watermakrs should survive it.
2) a wave file can withstand a certain amount of tinkering (normalising etc) without loosing the watermarks - however reversing the wav stops them having an effect - not much use for the audio, but the watermark must have a signature which is sequential.
As I understand a technology, whatermark is an special signal (defined in frequency) mixed with original wav.
3) when hackers were invited to break the system, one of the conditions was that the audio remained lossless - therefore it suggests that too much meddling with the sound wave will also make the watermark unrecognisable.
As I understand, it could not be restored w/o any erros in calculations.

Please correct me if I'm wrong...

[absinthe]

So like, what if it doesn't work? I've tried 2 different drives and am using WinDVD 7 on Queen's "Night at the Opera."

I get:

ERR: Cannot create file "H:\ATS_01_1.AOB"

And for the IFOs and BUPs I get:

INF: File is not AOB/VOB stream, just making a copy
ERR: Cannot copy file to "H:\ATS_01_1.IFO"

I'm using the syntax: dvdaripper "F:\AUDIO_TS\" "H:\DVD_AUDIO\"

Of course, I don't know what good this would all do me if I could since I don't have means to burn a copy and I own regular CDs of all my DVD-A's as well. But it sure is fun to play with ... :)

-abs

[drmih]

I haven't had any problems with any disc I've tried. I'm assuming that you've added the "s for clarity in your posting and didn't use them in the command line.

The only programme that I haven't got to work as it should is ppcmripper, which always creates 2 channel wav files regardless of whether I've used an original disc or an iso of a ripped disc. It's interesting that if you put on the -w (watermark detection) that it does show that they're there, but I'm not sure of the purpose of the flag as with or without it windvd v7 doesn't mute the wave files.

[absinthe]

OK, it works without the quotes. Cool, thanks.

But the PPCMRipper cli doesn't seem to make sense. I don't understand how it works as it doesn't seem to specify a source?? Can someone give an example of what they used?

-abs

[drmih]

For ppcmripper, use:

(not trying to rub salt into the wound, but ignore everything in the [] brackets, and for c:\temp, replace with any directory on your HDD)

ppcmripper 96000 [you need to check the frequency of the source but the ones I've done have all been 96000] c:\temp -w

Now, with ppcmripper, it automatically takes the dvd drive, or mounted image. If when it starts, windvd doesn't choose your dvd-audio disc, use the pull-down icon in the top left of the windvd playback window and select the drive you put the dvd-audio disc into. It should then go.

[absinthe]

Okay, it all works for me now. Musta been the quotes.

Thanks,

-abs

[insane822]

As I said earlier:
High quality Stereo (24/96) can be put on a DVD even if watermarked, using DVD-VIDEO and using the PCM wave as sountrack on a blank movie ( to spend the minimum amount of space in the video part)
Rub


What authoring programs support 24/96 PCM audio for DVD-VIDEO? I know that it's in the dvd-video spec. My Sony player supports 96kHz audio on dvd-video.

[mpucoder]

What authoring programs support 24/96 PCM audio for DVD-VIDEO? I know that it's in the dvd-video spec. My Sony player supports 96kHz audio on dvd-video.
Scenarist, DVDMaestro, and MuxMan to name a few.

[insane822]

Scenarist, DVDMaestro, and MuxMan to name a few.

This might be slightly off topic, but will a ripped 24/96 dvd-audio track not work?

Muxman gives me an error of "LPCM quantization not allowed".

bitrate = 4608
samplerate = 96000
channels = 2
codec = PCM
bitspersample = 24
24390640 samples @ 96000Hz
File size: 146 343 884 bytes

[mpucoder]

It should work. In order to determine why it was not acceptable I'll need to see the header (everything from 'RIFF' to 'data'). But let's continue this in the DVD authoring forum.

[drmih]

Just to answer my own questions:

To rip 6 channel sound you need to do the following:
1) In the Sound and Audio devices in the Windows control panel, change the speaker settings to 5.1 speakers.
2) Load up WinDVD and in the AudioCentre settings make sure that 24bit/96Hz Output is checked, and that the speakers are also set at 6 channel. Apply and exit.
3) Use dvdaripper to rip the AUDIO_TS directory to the HDD (and VIDEO_TS using dvddecrypter if you want it).
4) I used NERO to create an image of the structure on the HDD (if you want to make a watermarked version at this stage you can use Gear Pro to make a compliant disc [rather than Nero], but if you play it on a standalone it'll mute after 15 seconds).
5) Either mount the image using Daemon Tools, or use the ripped disc, and then use ppcmripper. You will now get either 2 or 6 channel wave files created on the HDD which can be remastered to say a DTS dvd-video disc, which is as near as damn it equal in quality to the dvd-audio.

[mpucoder]

Just want to add one thing - DVD-Video limits the total bitrate of audio to about 6Mbps, which means at 24/96 there can be no more than 2 channels. If you want 6 channels you have to drop all the way down to 20/48 (or encode to DTS).

[drmih]

How do you encode to DTS as I've tried using scenarist and it gives muxing errors straight away - I input a 6 channel wav file which it seems to accept okay and then used a bitmap as a slideshow stretched to fit the time. When I tried DVDMaestro with the same wav file is went off and created a PRA file which was approaching 10GB when I crashed it.

[Pitou]

I'm still looking for a good software to burn back the disk. I'm interested in Dual Layer as well.

Tried Gear, discjuggler, nero, Imgtool classic, but they're not 100%.

Any idea?

Thanks.

Pitou!

[drmih]

Gear Pro Master definately produces compliant discs. However, a pc seems to play a non compliant disc anyway - it's only my standalone dvd-audio player that objects. As the watermark security prevents the discs from playing properly anyway, it may be a pointless exercise.

[Pitou]

What should I hear or not hear if a watermark is present?

Or could you explain what is a watermark exactly, I mean technically, if possible :)

Thanks.

Pitou!

[Doom9]

What should I hear or not hear if a watermark is present?Nothing at all.. that's the whole point of a watermark: to add information to a media source that cannot be spotted, that survives re-encoding and that can be extracted again to find out the original source of a copy.

[drmih]

The typical watermarks on dvd-audios are spaced at 15 second intervals. Where ever you jump to in the track, as soon as you hit a multiple of 15 secs the player mutes and that's it.

[Pitou]

understand, thanks.

[ron spencer]

what is typically watermarked? Just the MLP? Or can 96/24 WAV files be too?

[drmih]

Any audio format, as it's hidden in the 'sound'. Sometimes if the sound is degraded enough the watermark is lost, but then what's the point.

[fisiko]

Just to answer my own questions:

To rip 6 channel sound you need to do the following:
1) In the Sound and Audio devices in the Windows control panel, change the speaker settings to 5.1 speakers.
2) Load up WinDVD and in the AudioCentre settings make sure that 24bit/96Hz Output is checked, and that the speakers are also set at 6 channel. Apply and exit.
(..)

I experienced the same problem => only 2 stereo channels instead of 5.1. I didn't test yet your method but i guess it should work. Thanks !!!!!! :)

[Pitou]

Hello everyone,

I've been playing with my DVD-Audio disks for a couple of weeks now and wanted to share my results, probably nothing new though.

I have 5 disks, I'll explain what I did for each of them.

1- Sheila Nicholls, Wake

Size: Total disk under 4.7 gigs
Encyption: None in AUDIO_TS and None in VIDEO_TS
Ripping: Disk to Disk copy using Nero
Authoring: None
Comments: Easy one!
Result: Exact copy successful!

2- Queen, The Game

Size: Total disk under 4.7 gigs
Encryption: CPPM in AUDIO_TS (No Watermark) and CSS in VIDEO_TS
Ripping: DVDARipper for AUDIO_TS and DVD Decrypter for VIDEO_TS
Authoring: Gear Pro
Comments: Used DVD-Audio template, imported AUDIO_TS, then dragged the VIDEO_TS after. (When it asks to import the VIDEO_TS part, just click No, drag it after. I don't know why, but it clears the AUDIO_TS folder if you click Yes and import the VIDEO_TS).
I also tried to author it with Discjuggler, but the links from the AUDIO_TS to the VIDEO_TS are broken. (When you choose a DTS track from the DVD-Audio for example, because it points to the VIDEO_TS folder). If you play it as a DVD-Audio choosing the High resolution tracks OR the DVD-Video part, there is no problem at all
Results: Exact copy successful!


3- Mike Oldfield, Tubular Bells

Size: AUDIO_TS under 4.7 gigs, total disk over 4.7 gigs
Encyption: CPPM in AUDIO_TS (No Watermark) and CSS in VIDEO_TS
Ripping: DVDARipper for AUDIO_TS and DVD Decrypter for VIDEO_TS
Authoring: Gear Pro and Nero
Comments:

- For AUDIO_TS: Used DVD-Audio template and imported the AUDIO_TS folder only. Works also with discjuggler, empty VIDEO_TS.
- For VIDEO_TS: Used Nero with the DVD-Video template. I burned 2 disks.

Result: DVD-Audio on 1 disk and DVD-Video on another disk.


4- Ultimate sound sampler, Chesky Lab.

I didn't have time to play with this one very much, I know it has CPPM (no watermark) and CSS.

5- REM, Best of

This is the one that gave me some headache.

Size: AUDIO_TS over 4.7 gigs, so overall total disk over 4.7 gigs
Encryption: CPPM in AUDIO_TS (*WITH* Watermark) and CSS in VIDEO_TS
Ripping: DVDARipper and DVDAExplorer for AUDIO_TS and DVD Decrypter for VIDEO_TS
Authoring: Discwelder Chrome
Comments:

- For AUDIO_TS: Used DVDARipper and for VIDEO_TS: Used DVD Decrypter.
- Then I used DVDAExplorer to extract all tracks from the 5.1 and Stereo track. I then had a lot of .mlp files.
- Used Discwelder to author the 5.1 track mlp files on 1 disk and the other set of mlp files on another disk.
- For VIDEO_TS: Used Nero with the DVD-Video template to author that part.

I also tried this:

- Make an ISO image using Nero with the UDF/ISO template and mounted it with Daemon tool.
- Used PPCMRipper -w to rip the Stereo track to 192khz/24bits wav files, thinking that those "W" meant that PPCMRipper was removing the watermark! (Dumb I am!), so the results are the same as using DVDAripper and just extracting and using the .mlp or lpcm original files. (Meaning that the watermark is still there)

Results: DVD-Video works well. Neither DVD-Audio 5.1 or Stereo works properly because of the Watermark. My Toshiba SD-4800 player stops every 15 seconds with scrolling "Copyright" on the display, but if I do FF for 1 sec, I can play the next 15 seconds. I can also skip songs.

On the other hand WinDVD plays all the disks without problem. So it bypasses or doesn't care about the watermark. I didn't try with PowerDVD 6, which plays DVD-Audio now as well.

For the moment I'm using my PC with the 6 analog outputs of my soundcard plugged to my receiver to play those watermark disks.

What I was thinking about, is having a modchip in my Toshiba that would ignore the watermark. Probably not a solution at the moment.

So that's it. Of course, please feel free to comment.

Thanks.

Pitou!

[Pitou]

I'm not sure if Tubular bells is watermarked.

When I burn all AOB files using Discjuggler, it works fine on my player.

I'll try to extract all mlp files first and author them with discwelder to see if it makes any difference.

Anyone knows if the watermark can be bypassed if burning the AOB files intact?

Thanks.

Pitou!

*Update*: ok, finally Tubular Bells is NOT watermarked

[Pitou]

quick update: The same disk of REM works in a Pioneer DV-578S!

So probably that it doesn't take care of the watermark.

I'm suspecting that there may be some other players that didn't implement the watermark detection, which in this case is a good thing.

Pitou!

[rasth]

Here are my tests so far:

Tommy / The Who: decrypted OK with dvdaripper 0.9c, ppcmripper 004 and WinDVD6. When I tried the newer versions with WinDVD6, I would get occasional crashes. No watermarking detected. I created wav files with ppcmripper.

Santana / Supernatural and Santana / Shaman: I was able to use dvdaexplorer to pull stereo mlp files directly off the disk without using dvdaripper, ppcmripper or WinDVD. No watermarking detected.

I didn't try extracting 5.1 tracks since I don't have a multichannel stereo. In fact, all I ever wanted from DVD-Audio was 24/96 stereo. I have an inexpensive Panasonic DVD-S97 player and an expensive stereo DAC, amplifier and speaker setup. I don't want to use the analog outs of the Panny because they are crappy in comparison to a good external DAC. Over the SPDIF the Panny down-rez everything on a DVD-A to 48KHz just like it calls for when you use dvdaexplorer to view the DRM properties of an MLP track.

I burned new compilation discs with discwelder and set the DRM to unlimited. Now I get 24/96 over SPDIF !!!

Isn't it ironic that I wouldn't buy many DVD-A titles when I was forced to listen to down-rez stereo, but now I may buy more since I can extract songs and listen to the full 24/96? Did the record company execs ever think that opressive DRM enforcment would cut their sales and profits? They should have. Those Hollywood lawyers didn't use their brains... they should spend more time thinking about giving consumers what they want and spend less time at the Neverland molesting little boys with Michael J.

I have the REM / In Time, I will try some experiments on it next.

[Pitou]

rasth, great!

I have the same REM disk, sorry for the misspelling the title name

I'm looking forward to see your results/observations on this one.

Pitou!

[rasth]

REM - In Time

First I tried to grab MLP files off the disc using DVDAExplorer_a7 without decrypting like I did with the Santana discs. DVDAExplorer gave me an error and said the stream was encrypted.

So I used PPCMRipper_004 and WinDVD6 to decrypt the disc. Then I was able to grab a stereo 24/196 MLP file out of the AOB on hard drive using DVDAExplorer_a7. I didn't mount the image.

I created a one track DVD-A in discwelder and burned it to DVD_RW. The Panasonic played it for about 30 seconds before displaying an error message and stopping. So it is watermarked and the Panny does check for watermarking.

It's a shame that they ruin good 192KHz data with watermarking bull$#!+

Also, DVDAExplorer_a7 would not let me check the "create wav" box... it was greyed out. That option was available with the Tommy and Santana discs. I don't know why.

Now I plan on using PPCMRipper to extract wav files, down-rez to 96000 and burn to a DVD-V. I do not have time to do that tonight, maybe Saturday.

bye

[rasth]

There is a sample rip for you all to analyze. It is posted on the usenet in:
alt binaries dvd music

[rasth]

REM - In Time

I extracted some 192KHz waves from "In Time"

They have brick wall filtered at 24K.

[Pitou]

great work rasth!

I think that we can't save to wav files in dvdaexplorer if it's a mlp file. It worked with pure lpcm files only, in my case.

I'll wait for your test of 96khz in DVD-V to see if it works well, or maybe I'll do the same this weekend as well.

Thanks for sharing.

Pitou

[rasth]

IT works. DVD_Video doesn't check for the watermarking.

I ripped all the "In Time" 192K stereo wav files and used Adobe Audition to downsample to 96K. I sure it didn't hurt the audio quality, since the waves were already brick-wall filtered at 24K and mangled with watermarks courtesy of the a$$#ole execs at Warner Bros.

Anyway, I loaded the 96K-24bit wave files into DVD-Lab Pro and created DVD-V audio only tracks and burned them onto a DVD_RW disc. The songs play on both DVD players I tried it on.

[Pitou]

Good work rasth,

One thing though, I think that the 96khz and the brick wall 24khz are not the same thing.

the 96khz is the sampling rate and the 24khz is the highest frequency that this wave file has. But, I can be wrong :)

I'll take a look at DVD Lab Pro.

Thanks.

Pitou!

[rubycon]

Good work rasth,

One thing though, I think that the 96khz and the brick wall 24khz are not the same thing.

the 96khz is the sampling rate and the 24khz is the highest frequency that this wave file has. But, I can be wrong :)

I'll take a look at DVD Lab Pro.

Thanks.
Pitou!

The spectrum of the REM file shown on this thread is the proof that the producers of this album has cheated those who bought the DVD audio thinking that they bought a higher resolution format ( higher than CD i mean), but instead they delivered them just the very same information, upsampled to 96k and 192k.

24 Khz is the highest frecuency because the dumb sound engineer put a brickwall filter on it to do the CD master, and then it burned the same wave to make the 96K and 192K waves, wich is stupid and, as I said, is cheating the public into believing that the 192K file has more resolution than the CD wave. I don't think even it has 24 bit resolution. Probably they up-converted it as well from 16 to 24 bits.

A pity. Stereophile denounced the same thing some months back, on a SACD by Norah Jones -Come Away with Me- that was mastered to SACD with the same 44/16 CD file instead of doing the DSD transfer with the original analog master tape. The studio( Blue Note) spent a lot of money to advertise about the goodness of the new SACD version, but didn't want to spend a bit of money doing a proper transfer.

Now, tell me, what is that?. The studios cheat its customers every time and try to get their money whith the minimum cost for themselves, but then they become irrational at normal behaviors such as music sharing, which is the way it worked in the past to attact new people into this hobby. At least it worked with me. When I was a student I rather had a penny to buy any LP; instead I borrowed them from friends, or we bought one LP to share between 3 friends, and copy it on tape. We were students and we didn't have too much money, you know, but at that time no one said this was illegal or that we were breaking the copyright law, it just was natural. Now I own about 700 legal CD's, about 150 legal LP's, some 80 legal DVD-AUDIO and 10 legal SACD. I have some tapes and CD-R too, but its a few conpared to the originals I own.

But, hey, cheating is OK as long as they save them a bit of money, and we have powerful lawyers who were paid with the money from our customers to sue them if they cross the line!

Rub

[Pitou]

again, I don't think that the 96khz is related with the 24khz.

The 96khz is the sampling rate. So, when they digitalize the analog sound they grab 96000 samples per second. The 24khz is the frequency of the sound, which in this case is very high and probably non perceptible by human hear. At least my ears cannot hear sounds above 22khz and the same apply with very low frequency like under 20hz, for example as I don't have any number on top of my head, in a subwoofer is very hard to hear/feel.

Can someone confirm or deny this?

Pitou!

[rubycon]

Pitou, believe me, a 24/96K file taken from an analog tape or digital master doesn't have a brickwall filter at 22Khz.
It's not important if the ear hears more than 20K or not, brickwalling at 22Khz introduces nonlinealities in phase that distort the signal well below 20Khz and is perceivable by a sensitive ear.
If you see a brickwall such as in the REM file above it's not a natural event. It has been put by the sound engineer to make a 44/16 master to be used in CD.

People like me who purchase DVD-Audio doesn't want that filter in the signal, and usually it's not there.

rub

[rasth]

The spectrum of the REM file shown on this thread is the proof that the producers of this album has cheated those who bought the DVD audio thinking that they bought a higher resolution format



I wonder why they bothered with the watermarking? Because they are idiots, I suppose.

[Pitou]

rubycon, I agree with you.

Pitou!