DVD-Audio ripper [Archive]

rjamorim

4th July 2005, 18:57

Greetings

I just uploaded to RareWares a tool that enables WinDVD owners to rip full quality DVD-Audio tracks encrypted with CPPM.

It does so by launching/patching WinDVD 5/6/7 and redirecting the stream to disk instead of the sound card after decryption.

Check it out: http://www.rarewares.org

Best regards;

Roberto.

PS: I didn't test it, as I don't have any DVD-Audio disk, so please don't flame me too hard if it turns out not to work :P

Wilbert

4th July 2005, 22:13

Thumbs up! I can't wait to try this out :)

rjamorim

4th July 2005, 22:40

i assume this means it outputs a decoded wav and not only does decrypting?

I honestly don't know. I don't have any DVD-A to test it here.

Also, the guy that pointed me to it mentioned there is a catch: WinDVD won't play unencrypted and watermarked DVD-As. The logic is this:

you can play encrypted with watermarking (original)
you can play encrypted without watermarking (original)
you can play unencrypted without watermarking (home)
you can't play unencrypted with watermarking (pirate)

Strangely enough, PowerDVD will play unencrypted and watermarked streams fine :B

SeeMoreDigital

4th July 2005, 23:04

Quite honestly if these apps (or similar apps) can't strip the encryption from an DVD-A stream without re-encoding it to say WAV, I can't see the point of them!

I have around 20No DVD-A disc's and all of them come with an unencrypted 6Ch AC3 element.

For all we know, the current 6Ch AC3 element sounds just as good as converting 6Ch DVD-A to 6Ch WAV :eek:

Cheers

Doom9

5th July 2005, 05:40

Quite honestly if these apps (or similar apps) can't strip the encryption from an DVD-A stream without re-encoding it to say WAV, I can't see the point of them!May I remind you that some 6 years ago DVD ripping meant framegrabbing and recording using an audio recorder software? It wasn't much but it was a start.

SeeMoreDigital

5th July 2005, 09:51

May I remind you that some 6 years ago DVD ripping meant framegrabbing and recording using an audio recorder software? It wasn't much but it was a start. Agreed, there's no denying any positive start in this field has got to be a welcome start.

However, the ultimate goal in backing up DVD-A disc must be generating a clean (non encrypted) DVD-A stream.

rjamorim, if you don't have any DVD-A disc's of your own to try, please PM me and I'll post you one of mine!

Cheers

rjamorim

5th July 2005, 10:36

Quite honestly if these apps (or similar apps) can't strip the encryption from an DVD-A stream without re-encoding it to say WAV, I can't see the point of them!

As you probably noticed, there are several "tools" for DVD-A ripping at RareWares. dvdaripper.exe just unencrypts the AOBs, so that you can later burn them to another DVD. And ppcmripper.exe can take these unencrypted AOBs and output high quality wavs out of them.

SeeMoreDigital

5th July 2005, 11:47

As you probably noticed, there are several "tools" for DVD-A ripping at RareWares. dvdaripper.exe just unencrypts the AOBs, so that you can later burn them to another DVD. Well that's the holy grail tool for us DVD-A fans!

And ppcmripper.exe can take these unencrypted AOBs and output high quality wavs out of them. Useful I guess, but the WAV files must be massive when compared to the AOB files.

Admittedly, the WAV's could be used as a source to re-encode to other formats... But like I hinted at earlier, this can be done anyway by using the AC3 stream. That said, the audio quality of an "AOB->WAV->other format" might be better than an "AC3->other format", but would it be worth the effort?

Cheers

Wilbert

5th July 2005, 13:17

@rjamorim,

So it's also possible to uncompress those MLP audio files (having WinDVD)?

edit: MLP = PPCM, sorry i forgot about that :)

edit2: usage: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=34368&st=25 (the first post of skamp and the one after that)

edit3:
As you probably noticed, there are several "tools" for DVD-A ripping at RareWares. dvdaripper.exe just unencrypts the AOBs, so that you can later burn them to another DVD. And ppcmripper.exe can take these unencrypted AOBs and output high quality wavs out of them.
If i understand it correctly, the decoding to wav doesn't hold for the MLP (aka PPCM) tracks because WinDVD can't play them :confused:

rjamorim

5th July 2005, 16:14

Useful I guess, but the WAV files must be massive when compared to the AOB files.

Yes, but you can also resample and dither during conversion from PPCM, according to reports from people that already tried the programs. WinDVD actually takes care of that.

I don't know if the superior (?) quality compared to AC3 makes it worth the effort, but at least now it can be done. :)

Now let's start the countdown until a RIAA registered letter arrives at my mailbox...

Stereodude

6th July 2005, 00:03

As you probably noticed, there are several "tools" for DVD-A ripping at RareWares. dvdaripper.exe just unencrypts the AOBs, so that you can later burn them to another DVD. And ppcmripper.exe can take these unencrypted AOBs and output high quality wavs out of them.
Unless I'm misreading the help files you don't have to use dvdaripper.exe first. It seems you can use ppcmripper.exe on a commercial disc.

"2. Load DVD-Audio disc (original or decrypted copy) into DVD drive."

Stereodude

6th July 2005, 00:51

Well, for what it's worth I can't get Gear Pro Mastering Edition to make a DVD-A on my PC. It reads the files and processes them, then prompts for video files, and after reading those the audio_ts files are gone.

ppcmripper.exe will decode 2 channels from the original DVD-A disc however.

darkedgex

6th July 2005, 01:11

That said, the audio quality of an "AOB->WAV->other format" might be better than an "AC3->other format", but would it be worth the effort?It would be higher quality. IIRC the frequency range for DVD-A (AOB) content can be much higher than that of AC3 encoded (VOB) content. Further, the AOB content is lossless (be it either PCM or MLP (Meridian Lossless Packing)), so as a high quality source the AOB makes more sense.

Basically, I think anyone who's interested in ripping DVD-A is likely doing so from the position of wanting to have the high quality content DVD-A offers. Otherwise they'd be ripping CD's instead. :P

plonk420

6th July 2005, 04:16

dang, i sold my Linkin Park Reanimated DVD, and there's only 1 DVD-A disc on Blockbuster Online. anyone have Netflix (and know if they have any?)

grug2k

6th July 2005, 05:55

Unless I'm misreading the help files you don't have to use dvdaripper.exe first. It seems you can use ppcmripper.exe on a commercial disc.

"2. Load DVD-Audio disc (original or decrypted copy) into DVD drive."You can do it without dvdaripper, but note:

"5. Only stereo (original or downmix) can be captured from CSS/CPPM-protected discs. That is the feature of WinDVD Player. For multichannel capture decrypt disc first. "

Revgen

6th July 2005, 05:56

Netflix only carries movies.

Nedfu

6th July 2005, 07:45

Testing this on my Michael Mcdonald - Motown DVD-A. The case says MLP so I ran ppcmripper. It's going now and making a wav file, should it be playing it and ripping in real-time like it is?

Edit- track 1 was only 42mb and no data from what I can tell. How can you tell if a disc is watermarked? It does have the DVDAUDIO.MKB file.

grug2k

6th July 2005, 08:08

If the disc is protected and you're attempting to decode a multichannel mix it won't work, you need to rip the whole thing with dvdaripper first.

DVD Decrypter+DVDARipper-> .ISO -> PPMRipper gave me a nice 5ch 24/96 WAV...One 4:45 track was almost 500MB in size. FLACced that was about 260MB.

Cyberace

6th July 2005, 08:11

I thought the Verance Watermark Secure Digital Music Initiative (SDMI) had already been been hacked (link) (http://cryptome.org/sdmi-attack.htm)?, Jon Lech Johansen (aka 'DVD-Jon', the guy who officialy cracked CSS) released a new SDMI crack (link) (http://www.nanocrew.net/software/SDMI/) recently but his link is now dead :( ...however (as always), google to the rescue => Jon+Lech+SDMI search (link) (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Jon+Lech+SDMI&meta=), and SDMI crack DVD-A search (link) (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=SDMI+crack+DVD-A) :)

Nedfu

6th July 2005, 15:10

I was able to rip the /audio_ts with dvdaripper, then I did the /video_ts with dvdecryptor. Then I created an iso of those 2 folders and mounted with alcohol. Windvd will play those and the information tab says it's downmixing the 24bit/44khz 6 channel packed PCM 6350kbit.

But then I burned the iso to a dvd+r and my pioneer dvd-a/sacd player chokes after telling it to play the 6 channel dvd-a track or 2 channel dvd-a track. Any ideas?

peteag

6th July 2005, 15:40

what????? i don't understand this procedure. i have an old dvd-audio which was included in my audigy2-package. i don't know if this is protected. when i input the commands into dvdaripper nothing happend. even when i hit the play button. windvd is very unfluid in playing back dvd-audios. nothing happend. can someone give me an exact list of doings?

Stereodude

6th July 2005, 16:11

I was able to rip the /audio_ts with dvdaripper, then I did the /video_ts with dvdecryptor. Then I created an iso of those 2 folders and mounted with alcohol. Windvd will play those and the information tab says it's downmixing the 24bit/44khz 6 channel packed PCM 6350kbit.
and
DVD Decrypter+DVDARipper-> .ISO -> PPMRipper gave me a nice 5ch 24/96 WAV...One 4:45 track was almost 500MB in size. FLACced that was about 260MB.
How did you two make the .ISO with the VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS folders? I can't seem to get anywhere with Gear Pro.

@grug2k: What did you mount the ISO with, or did you actually burn it?

grug2k

6th July 2005, 16:26

Stereodude

6th July 2005, 16:57

I made the ISO using Nero. I just made a DVD-Video compilation, dragged the DVD Decrypter output into VIDEO_TS, the dvdaripper output into AUDIO_TS, made an .iso using Nero's Image recorder, and mounted it using Alcohol 120%. (Although Daemon Tools or Nero Virtual Drive would work too).

Once its done, I just mount the image, load up WinDVD via ppcmripper and direct it to the virtual drive.
Ok, thanks. I'll have to try this when I get home. I have a few DVD-As, but they are dual layer. I only have a single layer burner, so it has limited my options. Being able to make an .ISO that works with WinDVD will be great.

Nedfu

6th July 2005, 17:01

I used Winiso to make the iso. How can you tell if a disk is watermarked?

Stereodude

6th July 2005, 19:13

I used Winiso to make the iso. How can you tell if a disk is watermarked?
I don't think it's as simple as just copying the DVD-A files to the disc to make a DVD-A. One of the help files made a specific point to use one of only three specific authoring apps (Gear Pro Mastering being the preferred one), and said to never try using Nero for burning a DVD-A.

So, that might be why your disc that is not working in your Pioneer stand alone unit.

rubycon

6th July 2005, 20:26

I did some ripping on my DVD's the hard way:

I plugged the analog out of my Marantz universal player to a high quality audio card ( EMU-1820M, that I use mostly to translate high quality vinyls to 192K DVD-AUDIO), just to see how it worked.

Since I was interested only in backing up high quality Stereo I did a 24/96 PCM copy of a DVD ( Buenavista Social Club, Ry Cooder, Compai Segundo). So using wavelab-5 I did a DVD-audio ISO file and burned a disc.

What happened: every track pleyed for about 30 seconds and then the DVD went to stop: This is watermarking in action.

So I did a blank movie and put the original 24 bit file, spliced in tracks as its soundtrack and burned it as DVD-VIDEO. I played it again and.... It worked!.... No watermark checking in DVD -VIDEO to the soundtrack wave.

What about multichanel?, well that can be solved also, without not too much loss, by using DTS. Again, use the DTS track as the soundtrack on a blank VIdeo, and you'll get the highest possible quality of a watermarked source.

As far as I know, there is no software available up to now to erase watermarking.

The really interesting about the ripper is that it will save you some time, because I may say that the 24/96 copy using the EMU 1820M card is the closest you can get to the original. I bet nobody would be able to hear any difference.

As for some people here wondering why taking so much trouble having an AC3 track I must say they should go to some high end shop and spend one or two hours listening to a DVD Audio on a high end setup, and then come here and give their opinion again.
(Take with you some of those for example, Buenavista social Club, Ray Brown's Soular Energy, Mana's Sueños Liquidos, Pat Metheny Imaginary Day, Eagle's Hotel California, ELP's Bran Salad Surgery...)

Mp3 and ac3 sucks in my opinion. The only lossless compressed scheme I like is DTS...so far, but nothing comes close to 24/96 and 24/192, only vinyl comes close, when mastered using 1/2 speed and pressed using 180 or 200 gram baffles; and then played on a high quality set-up ( excellent MC catridge, excellent phono preamp). Of course the rest shall be high quality too, because if not, why bother in the first place.

Francisco

Andrey

6th July 2005, 21:28

That said, the audio quality of an "AOB->WAV->other format" might be better than an "AC3->other format", but would it be worth the effort?
As I remeber correctly, ac3 codec is not situable for music at all, because it has dynamic compression especially developed for movies sound encoding.

SeeMoreDigital

6th July 2005, 21:53

As I remeber correctly, ac3 codec is not situable for music at all, because it has dynamic compression especially developed for movies sound encoding.To be honest I would not know about this, as I have not studied the intricacies of the DolbyDigital codec.

Okay, AC3 audio is not in the same league as the audio stream on an DTS CD or even an DTS DVD but as long as the frequency range is something like 20Hz to 18-20kHz and the dynamic range extends to a min of 90db, I reckon given the bitrate, AC3 should work perfectly well.

Can anybody else confirm though?

Cheers

Morbo

6th July 2005, 23:26

AC3 is like anything else....it's all about bitrate.

IMHO,a stereo 192k AC3 file sounds better than the same in mp3...

But,do the math.....448k/bits for 6 channels vs DTS @ Cd speed (lossless@ 1.4 megs).

No contest.

I'm glad with BRD and DVD-HD we get lossless formats.

Cheers!

thewonderer

7th July 2005, 02:09

I reckon that if the DVD audio is decoded into Wave files, re-enconded as a DTS Audio CD or even a DTS DVD with hi res (96khz) sampling at max datarate (about 1.3mbps) would blow away the any AC3 file...

I realise the quality isn't as good as DVD AUDIO, but it would be far better than Ac3 and easy to play on your home dvd player....

What do you guys think?

Stereodude

7th July 2005, 02:19

Nedfu

7th July 2005, 02:48

DTS-CD is not lossless and it's still a relatively pawltry 16bit 44.1khz.

Also, AC3 @448kbit has full extension to 20khz whereas DTS DVD @768kbit is only flat to ~16khz and then trails off. Neither is even vaguely comparable to the lossless 24bit DVD-A/SACD formats.

Regarding ripping to a 6 channel lossless 24bit wav, how would you play it later and output the 6 channels to a receiver?

calinb

7th July 2005, 02:57

One of the help files made a specific point to use one of only three specific authoring apps (Gear Pro Mastering being the preferred one), and said to never try using Nero for burning a DVD-A.Tracertek.com also has a DVD-A authoring proggy. Given that Gear Pro is the only program recommended in the readme file and given that Gear Pro costs much more than the Tracertek software, perhaps we should look for cheaper alternatives! Has anyone had success with any less expensive software?

Revgen

7th July 2005, 04:36

May I remind you that some 6 years ago DVD ripping meant framegrabbing and recording using an audio recorder software? It wasn't much but it was a start.

<OFFTOPIC>

That reminds me of a time when there was software that attempted to read DVD's using CD drives. I think it would attempt to read how the CD-ROM drive's laser would bounce off the DVD disc and try to interpret it into real data.

This was back in the day when DVD drives cost about 300-400 dollars.

Wow, I'm starting to feel old. :eek:

daphy

7th July 2005, 07:33

Tracertek.com also has a DVD-A authoring proggy. Given that Gear Pro is the only program recommended in the readme file and given that Gear Pro costs much more than the Tracertek software, perhaps we should look for cheaper alternatives! Has anyone had success with any less expensive software?

maybe this project (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=90955) will reach the wanted point :rolleyes:

Edit:
Changelog looks promising
[27 Mar 2005] Added FLAC support to dvda-author
[26 Mar 2005] Added support for up to 24-bit audio
[19 Mar 2005] Added support for up to 9 groups of tracks (available in latest alpha release)
[14 Mar 2005] First working version of dvda-author committed to CVS (16-bit Stereo, one group only)
[01 Mar 2005] Website launched
[21 Feb 2005] Project registered at Sourceforge

Versions
dvda-author-20050703.zip Bugfixes - correctly deal with the case of 9 groups, and ignore extra non-PCM RIFF chunks at the end of a WAV file (fixes some "clicks between tracks" problems)

dvda-author-20050402.zip Bugfixes - fixed bug with 24-bit Stereo files and also improved command-line parsing and error reporting.

dvda-author-20050328.zip Fixed support for 24-bit mono files.

dvda-author-20050327.zip Incorporated FLAC decoder to enable authoring directly from FLAC files

dvda-author-20050326.zip Support for 24-bit Stereo files (24-bit mono untested)

dvda-author-20050323c.zip Added support for mono files

dvda-author-20050323b.zip Bugfix - fixed bug that caused the ATSI to overflow when authoring a disc more than about 50-60 tracks in a single group. The ATSI is now either 2 or 3 sectors, depending on the number of tracks.

dvda-author-20050319.zip Add support for up to 9 groups of tracks. Added -pp option to correctly locate the AUDIO_PP.IFO file

dvda-author-20050315.zip Initial release - supports 16-bit Stereo audio at any DVD-Audio samplerate.

SeeMoreDigital

7th July 2005, 09:09

Regarding ripping to a 6 channel lossless 24bit wav, how would you play it later and output the 6 channels to a receiver?In much the same way most of us hook-up our DVD-A players to our surround-sound amps now.... via 6Ch analogue connection!

Cheers

Stereodude

7th July 2005, 12:10

Someone needs to write and firewire audio driver for the PC. That way the PC can output audio via "ilink" to compatible recievers.

ron spencer

7th July 2005, 16:01

the audio world is a-buzz!!!!

http://www.highfidelityreview.com/news/news.asp?newsnumber=14550899

rjamorim

7th July 2005, 17:44

...and it's gone :)

I got a phone call from a big local lawyer office (no fake, I checked the caller ID and the phone number really belongs to a lawyer office). They have been hired to make me stop distributing the DVD-A tools. It was a reasonably big talk, but I can summarize it with

They: we are giving you two choices, either you remove all references to those tools from your site now, or we'll have to take you to court.

Me: I'm already removing!

They: Thank-you for your cooperation.

Oh, well. It's been fun. I'm amazed at how well it spread in these two days (!), and I'm sure from now on you'll be able to find those tools in countless mirrors, p2p and the like.

Shine on!

R.

plonk420

7th July 2005, 17:46

To be honest I would not know about this, as I have not studied the intricacies of the DolbyDigital codec.

Okay, AC3 audio is not in the same league as the audio stream on an DTS CD or even an DTS DVD but as long as the frequency range is something like 20Hz to 18-20kHz and the dynamic range extends to a min of 90db, I reckon given the bitrate, AC3 should work perfectly well.

Can anybody else confirm though?

not entirely sure about the dynamic range, but the "stereo coupling" frequency varies by bitrate (Joint Stereo-like feature, i'm guessing?)

Andrey

7th July 2005, 18:45

not entirely sure about the dynamic range, but the "stereo coupling" frequency varies by bitrate (Joint Stereo-like feature, i'm guessing?)
Dolby is rather secretive on the ac3 specs. :(
Something with dynamic compression is used by encoder to make movie sound more "natural", something related to "holman expiriment", I think.
But this operation may be(?) optional...
Stereo couling, As far as I know, works different from joint stereo. While js uses only another representation of stereo signal (converting from L/R to M/S) stereo coupling means that above some frequensy (10Khz usually) only one channel (as sum) is encoded.

rubycon

7th July 2005, 19:35

"as High Fidelity Review does not condone the theft of intellectual property or music piracy, we will not be posting a link to the Rarewares download site at this time. Readers who are looking for further information are advised to check one of the popular search engines or a high-resolution discussion forum for applicable URLs."

Piracy is an issue, but what happens with ligitimate uses?

What happens when the industry rip off our right to make copies? What happens with our right to make a copy to a friend, including your girl-( or boy-) friend ?( maybe not in the US, but in some countries this is a legal use according to the local copyright law)

what will happen when the copyright time has ended ? will verance and other cppm measures stop acting? ( they, for sure, will try to get a forever copyright time, such as the 100 year that is currently lobbying to get legislated in Eurpe)

This world is too weighted toward the rights of content publishers and now this ideology is so deep inside people that everything that defends peoples rights is consider piracy tools. But wait!, we, at H.Fidelity, are not condining it!. Just look yourelf for "Rarewares" in your favourite seach engine!!!.

meanwhile I've moved back to the exciting rediscovery of vinyl. But that's another story.

Rub

mpucoder

7th July 2005, 19:48

Dolby is rather secretive on the ac3 specs. :(
Not at all, the specs have been available for a long time as part of the ATSC suite of specs. You can download it here (http://www.atsc.org/standards.html) Look for A/52A "Digital Audio Compression (AC-3) Standard, Rev. A"

SeeMoreDigital

7th July 2005, 20:12

...and it's gone :) And just when it was starting to get interesting :eek:

The idea of converting multi-channel DVD-A to a multi-channel lossless format, such as FLAC, was definitely flagging my attention!

Cheers

Andrey

7th July 2005, 20:40

mpucoder
Big thanks for the link !
Some times ago I searched for such a specs on dolby site and failed...

rubycon

7th July 2005, 21:13

http://www.wise-intern.org/journal02/maxvilimpoc.pdf

Rub

rubycon

7th July 2005, 21:56

http://serg.us/paper/dmca_thesis.htm

Interesting how the DMCA is intruding into free speech rights, and how it is actually used to cesor thought and stop free publishing in the internet.

Rub

PD: This thesis states that DMCA complies with US constitution, as oposed to the view of my previous post, that is the document in wich it's author states his doubts regarding its use against free speech and, also, in an international context.

Nedfu

8th July 2005, 03:11

I tried burning with Gear Pro but it still hangs when selecting the dvd-a 5.1 or 2 channel mixes. I have to press stop and then restart the disc to access the menu again. The only thing that works is the menu and the dolby digital/video rubbish on the disc.

rubycon

8th July 2005, 19:00

Although I'm happy about that FLAC initiative, I think DVD forum is weighted toward MLP lossless.

It would be fantastic to have some free tools to do MLP compliant wave files to be used in DVD-A, but I think MLP doesn't allow free tools. I don't know if the DMCA allows reverse engineering on MLP to allow program interoperability. At least in practice this is being heavyly prosecuted by the lawyers of the media companies, so that DMCA provision is practically useless.

It really socks that the DVD-A standard is not 100% open.

Rub