MeGUI - x264/XviD/lavc/Snow encoder with MP4/MKV/AVI output & audio

[Zathor]

I am trying to set-up the latest MeGUI with x264...

I keep getting the error "--[Error] An error occurred: x264 [error]: invalid argument: b-pyramid = --direct" For some reason x264 is having trouble with the command to enable b-pyramid.

I have tried using a few different builds but I need to use Jeeb's patch as I need --nal-hrd for Blu-ray compliancy.

Is there any way I can overcome this error to enable b-pyramid?

Please switch to the development update server.
More information:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=151159

[Ryu77]

Please switch to the development update server.
More information:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=151159

Thank you...

It's all working perfectly now. :)

[THEAST]

Okay, now that MeGUI is up and running again, I thought I'd report two small bugs I have found, this is not the wrong place, is it?

1. In x264 encoding options>Analysis tab, the description for "No Mixed Reference Frames" actually refers to Mixed Reference Frames and even the default value is written as "Enabled" in there while the default value for "No Mixed Reference Frames" should be disabled, right? Well, I thought this might confuse some people or maybe it is right the way it is?:confused:

2. In AVS script creator>Filters tab, if "Source is anime" is checked before analyzing the source, "mode=1" is not added to the script even if analysis is done right afterwards and is only added if it's checked after analysis.

Again thanks to Zathor for reviving MeGUI and also Kurtnoise and Sharktooth who spent hours of their time on this project.

[Zathor]

1. In x264 encoding options>Analysis tab, the description for "No Mixed Reference Frames" actually refers to Mixed Reference Frames and even the default value is written as "Enabled" in there while the default value for "No Mixed Reference Frames" should be disabled, right? Well, I thought this might confuse some people or maybe it is right the way it is?:confused:

2. In AVS script creator>Filters tab, if "Source is anime" is checked before analyzing the source, "mode=1" is not added to the script even if analysis is done right afterwards and is only added if it's checked after analysis.

Thank you for your report. Both things have been fixed in my dev build.

[THEAST]

Great, thank you.:)

[Ryu77]

I have recently just started doing encodes with a newer x264 encoder. I hadn't previously upgraded in a while as I was unaware of the development server.

Anyway, I started using the new x264 with MeGUI and was excited about the results MB tree may bring... But I have some disappointment. The encodes seem broken on my LG BD370 Blu-ray player. There seems to be a break up of pixels present (large squares etc.) as if B-frames or something along those lines are not being decoded correctly. The odd thing is these play perfectly on my PS3. In the past I have never had an issue with encodes on the LG BD370.

Here is my command line...

program --profile high --preset fast --pass 2 --bitrate 1500 --stats "D:\Applications\MeGUI\x264 Log" --thread-input --keyint 25 --min-keyint 1 --b-adapt 2 --b-pyramid strict --ref 4 --qpmin 8 --vbv-bufsize 20000 --vbv-maxrate 24000 --rc-lookahead 24 --me umh --direct auto --subme 8 --partitions all --trellis 2 --no-dct-decimate --no-fast-pskip --aud --nal-hrd --mvrange 511 --sar 1:1 --output "output" "input"

And this is what Media Info shows...

cabac=1 / ref=4 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=umh / subme=8 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.0:0.0 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=0 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=6 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=0 / mbaff=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=1 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / wpredb=1 / wpredp=2 / keyint=24 / keyint_min=1 / scenecut=40 / rc_lookahead=24 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=8553 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=8 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / vbv_maxrate=24000 / vbv_bufsize=20000 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00

I am encoding for DVD media (AVCHD). Is there anything that looks wrong here?

I can post a clip if it would help.


Edit: I just noticed there was a version 2 of the x264 Jeeb's 1376 build. Would this be one of the bugs that are fixed?

[nurbs]

The problem isn't mb-tree, it's weighted p-prediction. The default mode, wpredp=2, does frame reordering which isn't supported by some players (http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/?p=212#more-212). A workaround is using --weightp 1. This isn't a bug in x264, but in the decoder hardware.
AFAIK there is nothing that stops you from using frame reordering in the blu-ray or avchd spec so you might actually run into store bought discs that won't work on your player, although there haven't been any reports on that yet.

[Ryu77]

The problem isn't mb-tree, it's weighted p-prediction. The default mode, wpredp=2, does frame reordering which isn't supported by some players (http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/?p=212#more-212). A workaround is using --weightp 1. This isn't a bug in x264, but in the decoder hardware.
AFAIK there is nothing that stops you from using frame reordering in the blu-ray or avchd spec so you might actually run into store bought discs that won't work on your player, although there haven't been any reports on that yet.

Ahhh... So it is. I can see now that is the only variable with the command line. Thank you! I didn't think it was MB tree though, I only mentioned that previously as that was the reason for my update. I prob should have noticed the difference in the command line myself. I had a feeling it was something to do with frame ordering/decoding but the fact that the PS3 played them fine threw me off a bit.

After reading Dark Shikari's diary, it makes more sense as I can see that it is a problem with a few decoders and that the encoder itself is not to blame.


EDIT: Ok, I just did a short encode with --weightp 1 and the problem is still there. Any other ideas what could be causing this?

I currently have my short test encode in a Matroska container (as the LG BD370 supports mkv), could this cause any problems?

I am about to try an encode with --weightp 0 (disabled) and will report back with the results.


EDIT # 2: Yep, did the trick! So for future reference pertaining to anyone with the LG BD370 and I would guess the BD390 (and quite possibly the other decoders mentioned in Dark Shikari's Diary), the command must be --weightp 0 (which disables weighted P-frame prediction).

[surma884]

Thank you for your report. Both things have been fixed in my dev build.

Is this a good place to suggest features? Currently the bitrate calculator doesn't list the other DVD sizes, such as the ones here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD

You will notice that there are DVD1, DVD2, DVD3, DVD4, DVD10, DVD14, etc. I need to create some DVD14s from a Bluray, but it is hard to determine the exact size. In the Bitrate Calculator for DVD9 it says 8152MB, but when I click Select Size it says 8.0GB. There's no way an mkv has 152MB of overhead. So why is it different? I can't seem to figure out the equation. The Wiki page says that DVD9 = 8.54GB. I know the file system has an over head, so the other value 7.95GiB seems correct as all my DVD9 mkvs are about ~7.94.

Can you add those DVD sizes to the calculator? Or if anyone knows, can they tell me how to calculate the value for Select Size, so the end result is 12.33GiB?

Thanks

[bnshrdr]

Keep in mind that to convert from GB to MB you take GB * 1024, as there are 1024 MB per GB.

[surma884]

Keep in mind that to convert from GB to MB you take GB * 1024, as there are 1024 MB per GB.

Aaaahhhh! That makes sense...thanks. I found this unit converter online that gave me the MiB for a DVD18, and when I put it in the calc, it came out to 15.90GB, which is correct. FYI, the size was 16281MiB to get 15.90GB.

Thanks again!

[quantum5uicid3]

those are just two sided dvds, so its gonna have to be two files anyway

[coolalibaba]

hi all,
Sorry I'm a newbie for video encoding. I have a video with mp42 encoding. When I try to enqueue the job I just get this error:
"Your AviSynth clip has the following problem:
Error in AviSynth script:
AVISource: couldn't locate a decompressor for fourcc MP42
(E:\Download\Video\yunshan02.avs, line 1)"

The avs file is very simple:

AVISource("E:\Download\Video\yunshan02.avi", audio=false)
#deinterlace
#crop
#resize
#denoise


What should I do? any suggestion will be appreciated.

[Guest]

AVISource("E:\Download\Video\yunshan02.avi", audio=false) You cannot discuss this here, per forum rule 6.

[salatoimikud]

i have question.

When i use Megui version 0.3.1.1056 then i have
x264 DXVA-SD-Insane profile 2 pass encoding FPS ~22

But when i use 0.3.3.0 then same profile 2 pass encoding FPS is only ~3.

What the hell? :devil:

:stupid:

[Zathor]

i have question.

When i use Megui version 0.3.1.1056 then i have
x264 DXVA-SD-Insane profile 2 pass encoding FPS ~22

But when i use 0.3.3.0 then same profile 2 pass encoding FPS is only ~3.

What the hell? :devil:

:stupid:
Please post the log file for both encodings. I assume you are using the same avs source?

[salatoimikud]

Please post the log file for both encodings. I assume you are using the same avs source?

Here is my logs.

[nurbs]

The encodes use different settings.
From .1056:
--preset fast--bitrate 1000
From the new one
--preset fast --bitrate 1000 --b-adapt 2 --ref 8 --merange 32 --me tesa --direct auto --subme 8 --trellis 2 --no-dct-decimate
I've removed command line parameters that don't influence speed. Especially the --me parameters kill speed for little quality gain.

[salatoimikud]

The encodes use different settings.
From .1056:

From the new one

I've removed command line parameters that don't influence speed. Especially the --me parameters kill speed for little quality gain.

And how i remove these?

[nurbs]

Select the profile, click "config", go to the "misc" tab, hit "default settings", drag the preset slider to fast (main tab), select level 3.1 in the dropdown menu, done.

If you need --aud for some reason and if MeGUI doesn't add it automatically for .264 output there is a checkbox for it in the analysis tab. If you don't know what --aud is you probably don't need it.

[Neillithan]

I haven't updated MeGUI for a while and I finally decided to get around to it.

I noticed there were new presets, some of which I dig, some of which I don't. I've noticed an immediate issue. Every single preset defaults to a constant quality unless it explicitly says "2 pass" in the preset name.

I REALLY hope this isn't on purpose, as it deters beginners from making a good variable bitrate video. Most of the time, beginners will simply choose the default settings and if constant quality is the default, guess what? Every single video they will make will be retardedly huge and won't look nearly as good as a good variable bitrate video. This is up to the creators of the preset to fix, not a beginner. This is an extremely bad thing that needs to be fixed RIGHT now.

Also, the DXVA presets have been renamed to "DXVA (Unrestricted)" and the unrestricted presets appear to have been removed. Beforehand, I could suggest to people that they should use the DXVA presets because they use restricted settings. Now, the DXVA presets are labeled as Unrestricted. Can you see where I'm going with this? Those very same people are going to come back to me with questions regarding what preset they should choose and I will have to listen to them say, "but you said never to use the unrestricted presets". I've had to modify my video tutorials to compensate for the preset name changes once already, now I'm going to just say screw it because it's likely I will need to do that every 6 months.

What is the point of continuously renaming the presets in an effort to become as accurate as possible if every 6 months they will just get renamed again for the same damn reason?

This is a real issue, not just a fantasy I've pulled out of my ass. You guys need to choose GOOD preset names that have consistency all across the board and are easily comprehensible by the average beginner. What you have "now" is absolutely not beginner friendly or easily comprehensible. See examples below.

I am a long time user and I refuse to choose a quality based on its name of "standard" or "extra". If I choose standard, it might choose some values that I deem too low. The word "standard" doesn't in any way reflect what I feel is "standard" when it comes to values. "I" will be the judge of what is standard based on my own opinion of what's "standard" or... "average".

I suggest picking a permanent name for the presets and instead of using the naming scheme "standard, high quality, insane quality", you settle on something much more human friendly to understand. Ex: Numbers. Quality 1 (Fast), Quality 2 (Normal), Quality 3 (Above Normal)... etc. This will solve 2 problems in 1. First, it will make the qualities appear in an natural sorting order of Fastest to Longest encoding time. Also, it will make choosing the right quality easy for beginners AND long time users.

I realize complaining about the preset names is a petty thing, but they aren't even included with program when you download it, they have to be downloaded via the internal program updater. I get beginners asking me how to use MeGUI and I ALWAYS start off with, "download the latest updates from the auto updater". I KNOW they didn't do that and it's imperative they do that in order to gain BASIC functionality of the program via presets. Until a decent list of appropriately named presets are included with MeGUI, I have EVERY right to consider this a high priority issue.

I absolutely despise turning people to an easier to use program for x264 encoding because most easy programs lack a lot of great functionality that can only be found in MeGUI. I might be doomed to that fate forever unless you guys figure out who your target audience is, rather "SHOULD be".

Thanks,
-Neil

[stax76]

@Neillithan

Seems you know little to nothing about x264, how would you complain about profile names, write video tutorials or even use a advanced application like MeGUI without little to no experience?

[Taurus]

@Neillithan

I haven't updated MeGUI for a while and I finally decided to get around to it.

So you dont know about all the hazzles with MeGui going on for the last months?
Thanks to Zathor there is light at the end of the tunnel. Please read more and stop complaining.

This is an extremely bad thing that needs to be fixed RIGHT now.....
You guys need to choose GOOD preset names that have consistency
all across the board and are easily comprehensible by the average beginner.

Dont shout. Read the forum rules.

You dont have to use MeGui if you're not satisfied with the everlasting and ongoing development in the gui and x264.
Why dont you write your own presets, test them with your friends, and share them with the community.
If you're in the know it should be fairly easy for you.

[Neillithan]

@Neillithan

I haven't updated MeGUI for a while and I finally decided to get around to it.

So you dont know about all the hazzles with MeGui going on for the last months?
Thanks to Zathor there is light at the end of the tunnel. Please read more and stop complaining.

This is an extremely bad thing that needs to be fixed RIGHT now.....
You guys need to choose GOOD preset names that have consistency
all across the board and are easily comprehensible by the average beginner.

Dont shout. Read the forum rules.

You dont have to use MeGui if you're not satisfied with the everlasting and ongoing development in the gui and x264.
Why dont you write your own presets, test them with your friends, and share them with the community.
If you're in the know it should be fairly easy for you.

Why don't you stop being an elitist prick and agree with some truth. The fact of the matter is, MeGUI is never in a perfect working state because the "ongoing development" prevents it from reaching that kind of status.

I'm tired of having MeGUI work and then suddenly I have to relearn it because the developers decided to change some settings. I do not stand alone with this either. Lots of people have expressed their discontent with the way MeGUI is developed. One minute, it's working, the next it's not due to an update. It's in this constant alpha state, it's never in a 100% totally usable state.

Also, I am not "new" to MeGUI, I have been using it for at least 2 years. I have a pretty good visual of how MeGUI has changed over these couple of years and I have seen it go from totally acceptable, working condition to barely functional and back again. It's a miracle when there isn't a problem with it. I have even gone as far to snapshot my MeGUI installation as a fallback in case the autoupdater decides to update some perfectly working files to some malfunctioning files.

Also, I gave up trying to alert the MeGUI devs that their x264 Lossless preset was broken, which I even explained how to fix... and months went by without a response or an update that fixes the preset. It's an easy fix, you just change one thing in the preset and blamo, it works... It's not hard. For that to be an ongoing issue for months is totally unacceptable.

The very non subtle point I'm making is, MeGUI is not in any condition to use on any kind of reliable basis due to the nature of its auto-updating constantly breaking things. I wish it would not do that, and I can express my feelings about the matter in good natured way or an irritated way... it makes no difference. MeGUI is always going to be this way.

So EXCUSE me if I'm right and you don't like it.

-Neil

[Atavarius]

Why don't you stop being an elitist prick and agree with some truth. The fact of the matter is, MeGUI is never in a perfect working state because the "ongoing development" prevents it from reaching that kind of status.

I'm tired of having MeGUI work and then suddenly I have to relearn it because the developers decided to change some settings. I do not stand alone with this either. Lots of people have expressed their discontent with the way MeGUI is developed. One minute, it's working, the next it's not due to an update. It's in this constant alpha state, it's never in a 100% totally usable state.

Also, I am not "new" to MeGUI, I have been using it for at least 2 years. I have a pretty good visual of how MeGUI has changed over these couple of years and I have seen it go from totally acceptable, working condition to barely functional and back again. It's a miracle when there isn't a problem with it. I have even gone as far to snapshot my MeGUI installation as a fallback in case the autoupdater decides to update some perfectly working files to some malfunctioning files.

Also, I gave up trying to alert the MeGUI devs that their x264 Lossless preset was broken, which I even explained how to fix... and months went by without a response or an update that fixes the preset. It's an easy fix, you just change one thing in the preset and blamo, it works... It's not hard. For that to be an ongoing issue for months is totally unacceptable.

The very non subtle point I'm making is, MeGUI is not in any condition to use on any kind of reliable basis due to the nature of its auto-updating constantly breaking things. I wish it would not do that, and I can express my feelings about the matter in good natured way or an irritated way... it makes no difference. MeGUI is always going to be this way.

So EXCUSE me if I'm right and you don't like it.

-Neil

So STFU and make and release a profile set?

[Inspector.Gadget]

Neillithan, grow up. Don't complain about how hard MeGUI is for beginners while touting your own purported insight and experience. I have Zathor's MeGUI build working perfectly here and have since moving to the constructd server.

I have EVERY right to consider this a high priority issue.

This is FOSS. You have the "right" to use something else or to fork a new project.

[Neillithan]

So STFU and make and release a profile set?

No. Does it bring you solace to know that you're an idiot?

[Neillithan]

Neillithan, grow up. Don't complain about how hard MeGUI is for beginners while touting your own purported insight and experience. I have Zathor's MeGUI build working perfectly here and have since moving to the constructd server.



This is FOSS. You have the "right" to use something else or to fork a new project.

I have the right to tell you you're also an idiot.

[Atavarius]

No. Does it bring you solace to know that you're an idiot?

You are complaining about something you can easily rectify yourself with minimal effort to a guy who was nice enough to release updates to a dead program. So ummm yeah about that idiot thing...

[Neillithan]

MeGUI is dead? Yeah.. about that first thing I said, I haven't updated the program in months, nor have I read anything online about it during that time period. HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO KNOW THIS.

Congratulations, you're now the third idiot in a row to say something COMPLETELY useless to me. Oh wait, you already did say something completely useless to me. Congratulations on furthering your idiocy.

[Inspector.Gadget]

Yeah.. about that first thing I said, I haven't updated the program in months, nor have I read anything online about it during that time period. HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO KNOW THIS.

We're working on typing out this telegram just as fast as we can, sport. In the meantime maybe you can get ahold of this newfangled "Google" thing the kids are all talking about.

Bottom line, MeGUI has a few bugs that Zathor and some other contributors are working diligently to fix. Any other problems are solely the responsibility of the end user not being diligent enough when researching and/or being ignorant of their DirectShow environment.

[Taurus]

MeGUI is dead? Yeah.. about that first thing I said, I haven't updated the program in months, nor have I read anything online about it during that time period. HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO KNOW THIS.

Congratulations, you're now the third idiot in a row to say something COMPLETELY useless to me. Oh wait, you already did say something completely useless to me. Congratulations on furthering your idiocy.
Constructive criticism or trolling?
You have to decide.

[Ryu77]

Neillithan, honestly mate you began this conversation with an (as you call it) elitist attitude.

You basically spoke like the developers have the responsibility to serve you. You mentioned that at one stage you told the developers how to fix something and they didn't. If you really have a grasp on MeGUI/x264, why didn't you fix it yourself? I mean, creating a preset is pretty basic stuff. You could easily just make your own as others have also suggested. I have actually done this to make life easier for those that have asked for my help.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/tt1mj4m21j4/Ryu77%20MeGUI%20x264%20profiles.zip

Could you link us to this guide you have created as I would be interested to see the level of information provided.

[blsbball]

Neillithan, honestly mate you began this conversation with an (as you call it) elitist attitude.

You basically spoke like the developers have the responsibility to serve you. You mentioned that at one stage you told the developers how to fix something and they didn't. If you really have a grasp on MeGUI/x264, why didn't you fix it yourself? I mean, creating a preset is pretty basic stuff. You could easily just make your own as others have also suggested. I have actually done this to make life easier for those that have asked for my help.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/tt1mj4m21j4/Ryu77%20MeGUI%20x264%20profiles.zip

Could you link us to this guide you have created as I would be interested to see the level of information provided.

Thanks for the presets. Unfortunately when I try to use them the encoding video window shows up but never actually begins encoding where as the default presets begin instantaneously. Any ideas? Thanks again

[Ryu77]

Thanks for the presets. Unfortunately when I try to use them the encoding video window shows up but never actually begins encoding where as the default presets begin instantaneously. Any ideas? Thanks again

You need to go into the x264 setup window and allocate a place for the log/stats file... Then all should be good.

Just to be clear, these presets are only for AVCHD & Blu-ray. Of course they can be used for regular encoding but AVCHD & Blu-ray is their intended use.

Also, the faster presets aren't all that fast. I know I could have made them faster, with lower quality settings but I value quality too much. Please feel free to change anything to your own preference.

[blsbball]

You need to go into the x264 setup window and allocate a place for the log/stats file... Then all should be good.

Just to be clear, these presets are only for AVCHD & Blu-ray. Of course they can be used for regular encoding but AVCHD & Blu-ray is their intended use.

Also, the faster presets aren't all that fast. I know I could have made them faster, with lower quality settings but I value quality too much. Please feel free to change anything to your own preference.

Thank you very much. Where exactly is the x264 setup window? And I intend on using your DVDrip preset. Im sure I will see good results.

[Ryu77]

Thank you very much. Where exactly is the x264 setup window? And I intend on using your DVDrip preset. Im sure I will see good results.

My DVDrip preset is something that I quickly made with minimal changes from the AVCHD preset. A couple things were altered to be more suitable for SD material. You may find a better (faster) DVD preset from the server. That being said, I know my preset will give great results due to x264 being such a great encoder but you may be able to get away with less optimal quality settings without any discernible difference.

In regards to the setup window...

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll301/Ryu77_photo/Help2.jpg

[magnatique]

I think I may have found a bug :

I just needed to dual boot my Core I7 with XP on my original Windows7 partition. I made it boot out on H:\, so whenever I am in the winxp environment programs install on H:\

MeGui Updater always tries to run the updates on the c:\program files\megui position, not the H:\

[andrew_seul]

I got the same problem like you and I fixed it by reinstalling MeGUI completely :)

[magnatique]

I got the same problem like you and I fixed it by reinstalling MeGUI completely :)

Yeah, I copied the folder over from my c:\ win7 to my XP :)



I do have another bug but investigating on my own... seems to be random, unsure if it is when I am connected remotely to my box, or just a new problem when using the new vfw4x264.exe to pipe, but I get some D3d error on line 216 or something

[HeadlessCow]

Try opening up the AutoUpdate.xml file in the megui directory and replacing all the references to your old location with your new location.

[Neillithan]

An excerpt from a conversation I had with a friend regarding MeGUI.

[18:11] Neil: go to Options > Update
[18:11] jomi294: im there
[18:11] jomi294: but i already updated everything
[18:12] jomi294: and imported everything
[18:12] jomi294: overwrote everything
[18:12] Neil: go to profile collections on the left
[18:12] jomi294: ok im there
[18:12] jomi294: i see 4 items
[18:12] Neil: check Tx264
[18:12] Neil: right click it > force reinstall
[18:12] jomi294: done
[18:12] Neil: try it
[18:13] jomi294: yeah
[18:13] jomi294: it gives me the preset importer
[18:13] jomi294: but it sthe same ones i already have
[18:13] jomi294: theres some missing
[18:13] Neil: right click check all?
[18:13] jomi294: i only see the DXVA note
[18:13] jomi294: for the unrestricted profile
[18:13] jomi294: i remember with my old install
[18:13] jomi294: there were some other presets that had that DXVA thing
[18:13] jomi294: i even think you were the one that told met o use that
[18:13] jomi294: Extra Quality
[18:13] jomi294: setting
[18:13] Neil: yes, what has happened is, some douchebag decided to redo all of the presets
[18:14] jomi294: :o
[18:14] Neil: i complained about it at the doom9 forum, and AS USUAL
[18:14] jomi294: oh gg
[18:14] Neil: i'm taken as a fool
[18:14] Neil: check this out
[18:14] jomi294: ok
[18:14] jomi294: which profile shoudl i choose then
[18:14] jomi294: you must remember the one i m talking about
[18:14] jomi294: it had some DXVA tag
[18:14] jomi294: but it wasn't unrestricted
[18:14] jomi294: and it was Extra Quality
[18:14] Neil: use one of the ps3 or the xbox 360 profiles
[18:15] jomi294: what about the 2 pass
[18:15] jomi294: is that worse or better
[18:15] Neil: 2 pass is ALWAYS better
[18:15] jomi294: lol
[18:15] jomi294: nevermind
[18:15] jomi294: that was xvid
[18:15] Neil: also, be careful
[18:15] Neil: megui has defaulted to a constant quality in its presets
[18:16] Neil: only the presets that explicitly say 2 pass are 2 pass
[18:16] jomi294: so i choose
[18:16] jomi294: x264: PS3 - 2-pass
[18:16] Neil: for god knows what reason, somebody decided it should work that way. i also complained about that, but i think we know how that went

And for anyone that is curious, I am FULLY aware you can change the quality to "2-pass" in any of the presets. The point is, the default is constant quality, and in my honest to god opinion, that is full of retards.

[Atavarius]

Ah the arrogant ponce is back.

[18:13] Neil: yes, what has happened is, some douchebag decided to redo all of the presets

No some very nice person decided to take a dead program and continue its development because it was a fairly widely used tool. Another very nice person decided to redo the profiles because the old ones were very much out of date and did not make full use of new and updated x264 features.

[18:14] Neil: i complained about it at the doom9 forum, and AS USUAL

No you demanded that people change all their work so it was easier for you. Newsflash chief, the people that make these tools usually do not make them for paid jobs. They do it in their spare time for the betterment of the community. They owe you NOTHING. If I were you I would be thanking Zathor and the profile makers for making MeGUI usable again. As you have been told before, making your own profiles is extremely easy. All the relevant information is out there and can be found in oh a 5 minute Google search and some reading. I am sorry if you lack the capability to do either of these.

[18:14] Neil: i'm taken as a fool

No you were taken exactly as you are. An arrogant fool who refuses to do anything for himself. If you had come on and simply said something like:

Hey guys, is there any chance of getting a profile with these features (insert whatever it is you wanted here).

Someone would either have made it for your or pointed you exactly where you need to go to do it yourself. However I myself am disinclined to help you in anyway do to your rudeness and arrogance.

[18:15] Neil: 2 pass is ALWAYS better

This right here tells me everything I need to know. You have no idea at all what you are talking about and I doubt you would listen is anyone explained it to you.

[18:16] Neil: for god knows what reason, somebody decided it should work that way. i also complained about that, but i think we know how that went

Yes someone did. Someone with the intelligence or internet savvy to understand the options and make their own profiles. And who was also kind enough to share them. Again, you should be thanking them for making your favorite tool relevant again.

[Inspector.Gadget]

The point is, the default is constant quality, and in my honest to god opinion, that is full of retards.

You don't know better than the x264 developers, who ALWAYS tell people to use CRF when they don't need a specific file size. Nobody cares what you think, so stop posting this nonsense blend of off-topic idiocy and erroneous statements. Go away.

[Neillithan]

Ah the arrogant ponce is back.



No some very nice person decided to take a dead program and continue its development because it was a fairly widely used tool. Another very nice person decided to redo the profiles because the old ones were very much out of date and did not make full use of new and updated x264 features.

Do you think they could have done this in a way that doesn't annoy 5000 people?



No you demanded that people change all their work so it was easier for you. Newsflash chief, the people that make these tools usually do not make them for paid jobs. They do it in their spare time for the betterment of the community. They owe you NOTHING. If I were you I would be thanking Zathor and the profile makers for making MeGUI usable again. As you have been told before, making your own profiles is extremely easy. All the relevant information is out there and can be found in oh a 5 minute Google search and some reading. I am sorry if you lack the capability to do either of these.

First of all, I didn't demand anything. I used phrases like, "you need to" or "I suggest". That in no way implies that I'm demanding anything. If I was demanding, I would use phrases such as, "I demand" or begin telling you guys what to do without any kind of introductory phrase.

Understandably, "You need to" can be so easily misconstrued with demanding, but that is just my way of saying, "Please" without the courtesy.

I then proceeded to list examples for possible preset names, but nobody seemed to notice that.

No you were taken exactly as you are. An arrogant fool who refuses to do anything for himself. If you had come on and simply said something like:

Hey guys, is there any chance of getting a profile with these features (insert whatever it is you wanted here).

Someone would either have made it for your or pointed you exactly where you need to go to do it yourself. However I myself am disinclined to help you in anyway do to your rudeness and arrogance.

I don't WANT your help. I don't want a user from this forum to come to my rescue and create presets that perfectly suit me. What I "suggested" is a means to create better "default" presets to be downloaded through the auto updater in MeGUI. But seeing as one would have to be somebody of high status and recognition, that would, otherwise, never happen.


This right here tells me everything I need to know. You have no idea at all what you are talking about and I doubt you would listen is anyone explained it to you.

Does it excite you to know that you can pick out the ones that don't know everything there is to know about video encoding? Why not try something more interesting. Try figuring out which ones don't care enough to know everything. Then I'll be impressed. Or maybe I won't... due to the not caring part... You can never tell!

You make no effort to cite examples of why you think I have no idea of what I'm talking about.

Atavarius: I will just say this guy doesn't know what he's talking about so that I can appear like I know what I'm talking about. Golden!

Yes someone did. Someone with the intelligence or internet savvy to understand the options and make their own profiles. And who was also kind enough to share them. Again, you should be thanking them for making your favorite tool relevant again.

Well, this so called person with "intelligence or internet savvy" (I love how you put that word "or" in there) fucked up. It took less than 2 weeks for someone to come to me with questions regarding the new presets, to which I had to tell him to use a different preset than which he was accustomed to. I foresaw the future and I will continue foreseeing it so long as this new person with "intelligence or internet savvy" continues working on MeGUI.

This person you speak of should fess up and fix the presets. Oh, but please don't misconstrue that with demanding.


You don't know better than the x264 developers, who ALWAYS tell people to use CRF when they don't need a specific file size. Nobody cares what you think, so stop posting this nonsense blend of off-topic idiocy and erroneous statements. Go away.

The developers ALWAYS tell people to use CRF because ... why? File size? So what you're suggesting is, CRF can create videos of unpredictable size due to it being... better? Not to put words in your mouth, but that does look like that's what you're implying.

Maybe the reason they suggest CRF is because 2 pass is loosely integrated, meaning it requires more work, which MeGUI seems to have simplified with it's "automated 2-pass" function. Please somebody! Give me the answer!

Straight from the MeWiki (http://mewiki.project357.com/wiki/X264_Settings#crf):
When comparing a CRF encode to a 2pass encode at the same bitrate, the CRF encode will be marginally lower quality. On the other hand, it will have taken significantly less time, because the 'first pass' from a 2pass encode was skipped. On the other other hand, it's impossible to predict the bitrate a CRF encode will come out to (without actually performing the encode or a portion of it). It's up to you to decide which rate-control mode is better for your circumstances.

Oh so this is about semantics? You don't like the way I used the word "always". Maybe I should have phrased it like this:

2-pass has better quality, which therefore makes it better from a "quality" standpoint, but unless you know what the f*ck you're doing, you're better off using CRF. Yes?

Okay then, with that logic, why in gods name is CRF the default mode if MeGUI has simplified the use of multiple passes, therefore making multiple passes accessible to people whom are inexperienced at video encoding and compression techniques?

The answer is simple. The x264 devs are philosophical bastards that try to influence the populous with their "ways".

Or perhaps it's only this new guy with "intelligence or internet savvy" that has brought this upon us? I'm finished trying to guess.

-Neil

[Dark Shikari]

2-pass has better quality, which therefore makes it better from a "quality" standpoint, but if you know what the f*ck you're doing, you're better off using CRF. Yes?The information is wrong. Given the same amount of encoding time, CRF is superior to 2-pass at the same bitrate. Given the same settings rather than the same time, they're effectively identical within margin of error. My recent tests show that CRF generally has a very slight edge, albeit the difference is so small that you'd have to have OCD to care.Okay then, with that logic, why in gods name is CRF the default mode if most people are inexperienced at video encoding and compression techniques?Because the most common questions by inexperienced users is "what bitrate should I use?". It is better to give users what they expect (a consistent quality) than leave them guessing what bitrate to use. This isn't unique to x264: many other open source encoders default to constant quality or constant quantizer mode: Theora, for example. Furthermore, the most popular x264 GUI, Handbrake, also defaults to constant quality mode and has done so for quite some time.

2-pass takes more time and requires the user to specify a bitrate. Anything that requires more input from the user obviously cannot be default, since the default should require minimum possible user input. If bitrate mode is default, it requires more user input, and thus requires users to know more about video compression in order to encode a video. This is bad, as x264 should be as accessible to casual users as possible.The answer is simple. The x264 devs are philosophical bastards that try to influence the populous with their "ways".Or you're just trolling.

[Atavarius]

Do you think they could have done this in a way that doesn't annoy 5000 people?

Really the only annoyed person I have seen is you.

I don't WANT your help. I don't want a user from this forum to come to my rescue and create presets that perfectly suit me. What I "suggested" is a means to create better "default" presets to be downloaded through the auto updater in MeGUI. But seeing as one would have to be somebody of high status and recognition, that would, otherwise, never happen.

This is exactly what you want. You want "better" presets. "Better" as defined by you. MAKE YOUR OWN.

You make no effort to cite examples of why you think I have no idea of what I'm talking about.

I don't need to cite anything, anyone who has read your posts quite clearly sees you make no effort to inform yourself or else by now you could have *GASP* made your own profiles.

Well, this so called person with "intelligence or internet savvy" (I love how you put that word "or" in there) fucked up. It took less than 2 weeks for someone to come to me with questions regarding the new presets, to which I had to tell him to use a different preset than which he was accustomed to. I foresaw the future and I will continue foreseeing it so long as this new person with "intelligence or internet savvy" continues working on MeGUI.

This person you speak of should fess up and fix the presets. Oh, but please don't misconstrue that with demanding.

You know your attitude make me understand why so many open source projects die.

Straight from the MeWiki:
Quote:
When comparing a CRF encode to a 2pass encode at the same bitrate, the CRF encode will be marginally lower quality. On the other hand, it will have taken significantly less time, because the 'first pass' from a 2pass encode was skipped. On the other other hand, it's impossible to predict the bitrate a CRF encode will come out to (without actually performing the encode or a portion of it). It's up to you to decide which rate-control mode is better for your circumstances.
Oh so this is about semantics? You don't like the way I used the word "always". Maybe I should have phrased it like this:

2-pass has better quality, which therefore makes it better from a "quality" standpoint, but unless you know what the f*ck you're doing, you're better off using CRF. Yes?

Okay then, with that logic, why in gods name is CRF the default mode if MeGUI has simplified the use of multiple passes, therefore making multiple passes accessible to people whom are inexperienced at video encoding and compression techniques?

The answer is simple. The x264 devs are philosophical bastards that try to influence the populous with their "ways".

Or perhaps it's only this new guy with "intelligence or internet savvy" that has brought this upon us? I'm finished trying to guess.

-Neil

So you CAN do research! I am shocked, shocked I tell you. Make your own profiles and post them if you think this imaginary issue is affecting so many users.

Now you've been told straight from the x264 development team. So maybe you can stop trolling and actually contribute something? Either way, I am through with you. You make no effort to contribute to this thread but complaining MeGUI development will continue and the only unsatisfied people will be you and your friend.

[Dark Shikari]

Now you've been told straight from the x264 development team. So maybe you can stop trolling and actually contribute something? Either way, I am through with you. You make no effort to contribute to this thread but complaining MeGUI development will continue and the only unsatisfied people will be you and your friend.To be honest, I don't think your attitude is helping the situation here either...

It is important that discussions about technical issues remain technical. If you start attacking each other (this goes for both of you), nothing will get done.

[Neillithan]

The information is wrong. Given the same amount of encoding time, CRF is superior to 2-pass at the same bitrate. Given the same settings rather than the same time, they're effectively identical within margin of error. My recent tests show that CRF generally has a very slight edge, albeit the difference is so small that you'd have to have OCD to care.Because the most common questions by inexperienced users is "what bitrate should I use?". It is better to give users what they expect (a consistent quality) than leave them guessing what bitrate to use. This isn't unique to x264: many other open source encoders default to constant quality or constant quantizer mode: Theora, for example. Furthermore, the most popular x264 GUI, Handbrake, also defaults to constant quality mode and has done so for quite some time.

2-pass takes more time and requires the user to specify a bitrate. Anything that requires more input from the user obviously cannot be default, since the default should require minimum possible user input. If bitrate mode is default, it requires more user input, and thus requires users to know more about video compression in order to encode a video. This is bad, as x264 should be as accessible to casual users as possible.Or you're just trolling.

More user input? A bitrate is already specified when you choose any of the multiple pass modes. You would be a fool to stick with the default bitrate, which (to my knowledge) is 1000. 1000 is far too low to make a decent encode, depending on the source, which lets be honest... more and more videos are in at least 720p res now.

Just because an acceptable quality is chosen for constant quality, doesn't mean it requires any less user input. I think in bitrates, not values between 1 and 64. What the heck is 21 out of 64? Is that like 32%? The average joe schmoe is not going to know what "21 constant quality" represents, nor will they know which number to use.

Your point is moot.

[Dark Shikari]

Just because an acceptable quality is chosen for constant quality, doesn't mean it requires any less user input. I think in bitrates, not values between 1 and 64. What the heck is 21 out of 64? Is that like 32%? The average joe schmoe is not going to know what "21 constant quality" represents, nor will they know which number to use.

Your point is moot.You seem to be implying that most users change the default quality setting. As in the case of Handbrake, the vast majority of users do not. They just want it to work.

You "think in bitrates", but you are not a normal, casual user. An average user does not know what a bitrate is. An average user wants the program to re-encode his file and give a good quality result. This means the program should, without any tweaking whatsoever, always generate a good quality result. For a GUI, this means the user should be able to click "ipod" and click "encode", and get a quality video for his iPod. For a CLI, this means that "x264 input -o output" should generate a good result. If the user has to click anyone else, the program has failed to serve its purpose.

Of course, it is not unreasonable to design a program for advanced users, but if your goal is to serve casual users (which your goal appears to be, by your statements), you should design the program accordingly.

I suggest you stop attacking everyone in this thread, as your attitude is not helping the situation or MeGUI as a project. Declaring everyone else to be wrong does not win you anything other than anger and annoyance: it doesn't make MeGUI better, nor does it convince anyone of your ideas. I have nothing against different opinions, and had you expressed them in a less vicious and obnoxious manner, perhaps I might have been more likely to agree with you.