MeGUI - x264/XviD/lavc/Snow encoder with MP4/MKV/AVI output & audio

[Sharktooth]

I have a question. Why does updater save all files on C: instead of %TEMP% and then do not remove them after update procedure.
im not sure about this, but i clearly remember there were problems with the autoupdater on vista so berrinam (?) found that workaround.

[rebkell]

don't bother . pirks is no longer with us.

I hate to hear that, as a Vista user, I'm not overly concerned with the extra step to start to run the program as Admin, but I did understand and could understand some of pirks points. I really do like megui, but I do kind of get the impression, that the megui developers aren't concerned with Vista compatibility.

[Sharktooth]

... again... we're doing what we can to make it work on Vista.
it's not our fault if M$ in its stupidity made Vista ask for user confirmation for every single stupid thing (maybe with SP2 it will even ask if you're sure you want to turn the PC on!)
we cant fix it... we have very limited resources and we code in the free time. flood M$ with requests for an OS that acts as an OS instead of telling BS about megui devs...
also if you look at the changelog, you'll se the actual active coders are only 2 (kurtnoise and mutant_fruit), since i havent any free time, doom9 is "retired", berrinam is missing, spawn guy is busy, etc...
so, the actual status is: IT WORKS! just run it as admin... if you're concerned about clicking OK at the OS idiot popup, just disable the damn UAC!

[tomos]

UAC is a good idea in theory but a PITA in practice. That's why i have it disabled. It's Microsofts own fault for ignoring security for so long and then throwing in an unfriendly 'fix' for it. Of course this means that *so* much software written pretty much assumed you had admin rights on windows.

They should have done this in stages and left the full blown thing in windows 7. Esets security center does a better job of it IMO.

[~bT~]

Why not just ask users of MeGUI on Vista to turn the STUPID UAC off if they want to use it?

[Ryu77]

^ ~bT~, Sharktooth just did...

if you're concerned about clicking OK at the OS idiot popup, just disable the damn UAC!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just wanted to point out that I found the strangest bug. However, I think that it could exist in the Nero Digital AAC encoder rather than MeGUI itself but I couldn't think of anywhere more appropriate to post it. Although, it could be possible there is an error with the command line that MeGUI is feeding to the Nero encoder...

Anyway, what happens is when I attempt to encode an AAC audio file to AAC-LC using the Nero encoder in MeGUI, the encoder does its thing as normal. I multiplex the video file and audio file with YAMB (so I can use the ND Standard brand name metadata, just something I like to do so I can easily right click and get detailed media file information). Most media identification tools (Gspot, MediaInfoRaw) show the audio as AAC-LC but on the Nero Digital properties tab (Right Click/Properties/Nero Digital), it is shown as HE-AAC!

To confirm this problem, this file will not play on my iPod (iPod can only decode AAC Low Complexity). I then used a different AAC encoding program and created another AAC-LC stream and used the exact same process to multiplex. The file now plays on my iPod without a problem and the Nero Digital tab is now showing it as AAC-LC.

So in short... The Nero Digital AAC encoder via the MeGUI interface is creating an AAC stream with a LC "tag" but it is actually a HE stream.

Note: I am using the Nero Digital AAC Encoder v1.1.34.2.

[stax76]

does anybody know who is the AviSynth developer responsible for the installer, or who else could make a build. The reg key for the location of the plugins should be at HKEY_CURRENT_USER and the default location for the plugins should be in the local app data dir of the current user.

[arrirc]

Hello Sharktooth (and everyone else :) )

There is one observation I would like to share with you...not sure if its a bug though.

I have seen that if I put the PC on hibernation when the X264 encoding is in progress, after I awake it, the FPS drops drastically. Now after some time the FPS picks up but it never reaches to a value even near to the time when the work actually started, that is before hibernation.

For example, right now, one encoding is going on. When I started it, the FPS was about 18. Now as I restarted it from hibernation, it showed a FPS of 0.58, and now after running it for about 15 mins, the FPS 0.81. I have tested it on different sources, but same scenario is replayed every time. I know that this FPS will rise continually, and the ETA will be lowered, and the actual time taken for the job to finish will be little more, but the FPS will never attain the value even near to 18. The X264.exe is run under Normal Priority Mode and I am using Windows XP.

[rebkell]

... again... we're doing what we can to make it work on Vista.
it's not our fault if M$ in its stupidity made Vista ask for user confirmation for every single stupid thing (maybe with SP2 it will even ask if you're sure you want to turn the PC on!)
we cant fix it... we have very limited resources and we code in the free time. flood M$ with requests for an OS that acts as an OS instead of telling BS about megui devs...
also if you look at the changelog, you'll se the actual active coders are only 2 (kurtnoise and mutant_fruit), since i havent any free time, doom9 is "retired", berrinam is missing, spawn guy is busy, etc...
so, the actual status is: IT WORKS! just run it as admin... if you're concerned about clicking OK at the OS idiot popup, just disable the damn UAC!

You really need to back off the insults, the reason pirks is gone is because of your attitude and tone, you've taken offense to anything said in this thread concerning Vista and it not working correctly in Vista.

Hey, we all love megui and we want to use it, we're not here to bash it, we love it and want it to do all it's capable of, but currently it doesn't do all it's capable of in Vista. Vista is pretty good stuff for a Home Theater PC, right out of the box, I use it for recording all my shows, and then I use megui to encode them. I've never gotten any of the one step/click stuff to work, I just go through all the motions to get what I want, but it just doesn't work right for some reason. It may very well be a problem with avisynth, I'm not smart enough to understand all the inner workings of this stuff.

We're the users and we don't claim to know what is and isn't, but we do feel rather intimidated when we ask for help or try to understand what is wrong and we get told that we're using a stupid OS and we need to reinstall the whole thing from the ground floor and start over.

[Sharktooth]

@arric: that's due to the fact FPS is a calculation based on encoding time. The Hibernation time adds to the calculations.

@rebkell: i did not insult or bash anyone (except M$ which obviously deserves it). i just said it isnt possible to remove the admin rights requirement coz other softwares megui is based on REQUIRES it.
How many times i have to repeat myself?
pirks is gone coz he kept hitting the nail when there was nothing to hit. I didnt talk to any mods. pirks is gone by their initiative and that lets me think if you continue taking his same position you will end up the same way. This is not a warning, it's just my logical and personal conclusion.

[stax76]

@Sharktooth

what app needs admin rights for what reason? I know only the AviSynth plugin issue and that can be worked around.

[Doom9]

Taking a step back - I thought applications should be installed in c:\program files , and that's a path where restricted user accounts have no access to. Does Microsoft recommend to install applications under documents and settings now? Regardless of which directory you download your updates to, at some point you need to replace existing applications and unless they're in a directory where non admin users have access to, you cannot get around admin rights for the update procedure.

Likewise.. .NET's config files work if the config file has the same name (plus extension .config) and is in the application folder.. so unless the installation folder is a user folder and not a system folder, forget about editing the configuration.

I recently had to deploy a java app that uses rmi. As it is, the rmi server runs on the same machine as the rmi client, and yet unless you adjust your java security settings. I looked around a bit if there were ways to handle the issues programmatically seeing as the rmi client ends up running as a service anyway (needing network and db access amongst other things) - but there doesn't appear to be a convenient way - so in the end, you just end up bypassing security by turning off security altogether.

I often see the same thing with databases.. it's so darned annoying figuring out all the possible accessible objects and giving the proper access (especially when SPs and triggers come into play), and without a tool that allows you to track a user and then click a button like "give user access to all the objects accessed within the last half hour, and remove dbo", it's so much more convenient just handing out dbo rights.

Or take .NET remoting.. you can encrypt and authenticate traffic.. but you need certificates to do so. So you have to buy a certificate and deploy it - or you just forget about the added security.

Bruce Schneier has a good take (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heise.de%2Ftr%2FIm-wesentlichen-ist-das-ein-menschliches-Problem--%2Fartikel%2F105632&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8) on the whole security through technology angle. Bottom line: human beings always have and always will be the weakest link. And annoying people just makes them more susceptible to try something in revenge for being annoyed day in and out. If you look at the time spent waiting for security restrictions to be lifted so you can go to work.. it makes you cry.

And to get back to megui, there's a political component to it - volunteers work on it, and if they don't like an OS, they're not likely to bother much if the app doesn't work on the disliked OS. And the more you argue how those that prefer XP is better are wrong, the more annoyed those volunteers get and the less likely they are to bother at all. Vista is better is no argument for why somebody that dislikes Vista should spend a second on changing an application to make it work more smoothly with Vista.

[stax76]

Taking a step back - I thought applications should be installed in c:\program files


usually yes but our apps are a special and rare case.

and that's a path where restricted user accounts have no access to.

in Vista even with admin account apps run restricted, it's recommended to do admin task in another process that has a manifest telling Vista to run it as admin, installers have such a manifest, Vista shows then the prompt to run it elevated. Usually it's not necessary to do admin task for most applications, if you still need to it's quite possible without restarting as admin: you have to do a out of process COM server but with .NET and basic COM knowledge it shouldn't be hard to do.

Does Microsoft recommend to install applications under documents and settings now?

under special requirements, yes

here is a good article on the topic: http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/07/01/UAC/default.aspx

[rica]

Thanks Doom9 for opening this issue to discussion.
I've been trying to figure out this issue for couple of weeks.
I've never succeeded to update megui while it is installed under path C even as admin.
I made the registry tweaks so as to login as admin:
http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/9778/rica2di8.jpg

Here you will see i'm admin:
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/6493/rica1mk2.jpg

(For tweaking details, you may have a look at this:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11888596#post11888596 )

And finally, i installed megui under a folder (Megui) on desktop.

(BTW, i haven't installed Vista SP1 yet. Dunno it helps?)

[Kurtnoise]

I just wanted to point out that I found the strangest bug. However, I think that it could exist in the Nero Digital AAC encoder rather than MeGUI itself but I couldn't think of anywhere more appropriate to post it. Although, it could be possible there is an error with the command line that MeGUI is feeding to the Nero encoder...
why not posting your logfile ?

So in short... The Nero Digital AAC encoder via the MeGUI interface is creating an AAC stream with a LC "tag" but it is actually a HE stream.
not at all.


note for yourself: the iPod Shuffle 2nd generation has some troubles to decode the streams encoded by this compressor. This has not been fixed yet (not in the CLI)...

[Kurtnoise]

What I've started to do is asking the user to approach third party application developers with feature request, code looks as follows:


If files(0).ContainsUnicode Then
Msg.Show("Filenames with unicode characters are not supported by DGIndex." + CrLf2 + _
"StaxRip will now open a forum thread, please request unicode support there!", MsgIcon.Warning)

ProcessWrapper.StartFile("http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=87807")
Exit Sub
End If

For Each i In ",[]"
If files(0).Contains(i.ToString) Then
Msg.Show("Filenames with the character '" & i & "' are not supported by DGIndex." + CrLf2 + _
"StaxRip will now open a forum thread, please request support for the character there!", MsgIcon.Warning)

ProcessWrapper.StartFile("http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=87807")
Exit Sub
End If
Next


Are you sure about that ? Could you give me some examples for this please ?

2 short tests :
Log for job1 (idx, éçççà oè.VOB -> éçççà oè.d2v)
[28/03/2008 21:57:02] Started handling job
[28/03/2008 21:57:02] Preprocessing
Job commandline: "C:\tmp\megui_all\trunk\megui\bin\Release\tools\dgindex\DGIndex.exe" -SD=< -AIF=<D:\INLAND EMPIRE\VIDEO_TS\éçççà oè.VOB< -OF=<D:\INLAND EMPIRE\VIDEO_TS\éçççà oè< -exit -hide -OM=0
[28/03/2008 21:57:02] Encoding started
[28/03/2008 21:57:26] Running auto force film
[28/03/2008 21:57:26] Job completed
[28/03/2008 21:57:26] Postprocessing


Log for job1 (idx, éçççà oè.VOB -> éçççà oè.d2v)
[28/03/2008 22:00:28] Started handling job
[28/03/2008 22:00:31] Preprocessing
Job commandline: "C:\tmp\megui_all\trunk\megui\bin\Release\tools\dgindex\DGIndex.exe" -SD=< -AIF=<D:\c'est peut être ça\é à ù\éçççà oè.VOB< -OF=<D:\c'est peut être ça\é à ù\éçççà oè< -exit -hide -OM=0
[28/03/2008 22:00:31] Encoding started
[Information] [28/03/2008 22:02:58] Running auto force film
Film percentage: -1
[28/03/2008 22:02:58] Job completed

[Kurtnoise]

what app needs admin rights for what reason?
MP4Box associated with the tmp dir using/writing...

[stax76]

The string you've tried is covered by codepage Windows-1252 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows-1252). Try this: Česká

MP4Box associates with the tmp dir using/writing...

I'll try it.

[Ryu77]

why not posting your logfile ?

Ok, I would have done so but I deleted it out of habit. I will need to do another encode to get a log file. I'm happy to do that. I'll post it soon. :)


not at all.

What did you mean? Why does the Nero Digital properties tab display it as a High Efficiency AAC stream then?

note for yourself: the iPod Shuffle 2nd generation has some troubles to decode the streams encoded by this compressor. This is has not been fixed yet (not in the CLI)

My iPod is the 5th generation Classic (video).


If there indeed an issue with the Nero AAC encoder, what alternative is there? I looked at the other AAC encoders in MeGUI... FAAC doesn't give the option to choose HE or LC. Winamp AAC doesn't seem to offer "Stereo", unless "Joint", "Independent" or "Dual" is Winampese for "Stereo"... :confused:

EDIT: Here is the XML file for the settings I used...

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<TaggedJob xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema">
<EncodingSpeed />
<Job xsi:type="AudioJob">
<Input>D:\Audio.dts</Input>
<Output>D:\Audio.mp4</Output>
<FilesToDelete />
<CutFile />
<Settings xsi:type="NeroAACSettings">
<delay>0</delay>
<delayEnabled>false</delayEnabled>
<ImproveAccuracy>false</ImproveAccuracy>
<ForceDecodingViaDirectShow>false</ForceDecodingViaDirectShow>
<DownmixMode>DPLIIDownmix</DownmixMode>
<BitrateMode>CBR</BitrateMode>
<Bitrate>156</Bitrate>
<AutoGain>false</AutoGain>
<Profile>LC</Profile>
<Quality>0.5</Quality>
<CreateHintTrack>false</CreateHintTrack>
</Settings>
<Delay>0</Delay>
<SizeBytes>0</SizeBytes>
<BitrateMode>CBR</BitrateMode>
</Job>
<RequiredJobNames />
<EnabledJobNames />
<Name>job1</Name>
<Status>WAITING</Status>
<Start>0001-01-01T00:00:00</Start>
<End>0001-01-01T00:00:00</End>
</TaggedJob>

Does that help? I posted that because you asked for a log file but there is no error with the log file. As I said previously the encode is done as normal and you would expect everything to go ok. Until after I multiplex with the video and look at the Nero Digital properties tab and see HE AAC is displayed under audio type and as I said my iPod will not play this file.

Also, you might notice that I selected CBR 156Kbs. The reason I am doing this is because the final file is coming out at 160Kbs (the iPod specs recommends this as the limit. It's probably a little flexible but I would rather not take the chance). Back to the point, why is the encoder not respecting my bitrate choice to the exact number? If I choose 160Kbs, it ends up being 164Kbs.

Here is the final log file, if you need it...

Looking for job processor for job...

Processor found!



------------------------------------------------------


Starting job job1 at 11:52:41 AM

Starting preprocessing of job...

Preprocessing finished!

successfully started encoding

Processing ended at 12:14:09 PM

------------------------------------------------------

Log for job job1

Input: Channels=2, BitsPerSample=16, SampleRate=48000Hz
Command line used: D:\Multimedia applications\MeGUI\tools\Nero Digital AAC encoder\win32\neroAacEnc.exe -ignorelength -lc -cbr 156000 -if - -of "D:\Audio.mp4"*************************************************************
* *
* Nero Digital Audio Reference MPEG-4 & 3GPP Audio Encoder *
* Copyright 2007 Nero AG *
* All Rights Reserved Worldwide *
* *
* Package build date: Aug 6 2007 *
* Package version: 1.1.34.2 *
* *
* See -help for a complete list of available parameters. *
* *
*************************************************************




------------------------------------------------------

Starting postprocessing of job...

Job completed successfully and deletion of intermediate files is activated

Postprocessing finished!

End of log for job1

Thank you very much for your attention to this problem. :thanks:

[stax76]

MP4Box works with Vista UAC here.

[Kurtnoise]

The string you've tried is covered by codepage Windows-1252 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows-1252). Try this: Česká
ok...too bad.

[Kurtnoise]

What did you mean? Why does the Nero Digital properties tab display it as a High Efficiency AAC stream then?
I meant:
1) The Nero Digital AAC encoder is able to create AAC streams embedded in the MP4 container.
2) The Nero Digital AAC encoder through MeGUI works perfectly.
3) LC is not a tag but more datas bitstream.
4) HE is a technique to improve efficiency.
5) HE streams contain the same core as LC ones.



My iPod is the 5th generation Classic (video).


If there indeed an issue with the Nero AAC encoder, what alternative is there? I looked at the other AAC encoders in MeGUI... FAAC doesn't give the option to choose HE or LC. Winamp AAC doesn't seem to offer "Stereo", unless "Joint", "Independent" or "Dual" is Winampese for "Stereo"... :confused:

check out more carefully the several AAC presets supply by MeGUI...Using Joint-Stereo should be fine.

Does that help?
it shows that the command line is correct.


Back to the point, why is the encoder not respecting my bitrate choice to the exact number? If I choose 160Kbs, it ends up being 164Kbs.
1) depends how the bitrate has been found/calculated.
2) This is probably due to the bitrate reservoir.

[Ryu77]

I meant:
1) The Nero Digital AAC encoder is able to create AAC streams embedded in the MP4 container.
2) The Nero Digital AAC encoder through MeGUI works perfectly.
3) LC is not a tag but more datas bitstream.
4) HE is a technique to improve efficiency.
5) HE streams contain the same core as LC ones.

I understand all that but I don't think you are understanding what I am saying.

I set the Nero encoder to AAC-LC but after I multiplex the video and audio, the Nero Digital properties tab is identifying it as HE-AAC. The MeGUI + Nero AAC encoder combination is the only software that is causing this problem. Also, other media identifcation tools say it is AAC-LC. So the same media file is being displayed as having a HE-AAC stream in the Nero Digital properties tab, and shown by MediaInfoRaw as having a AAC-LC stream, why the discrepancy?

Whenever I create mp4 files (mpeg4 sp + AAC-LC) for my iPod with any software other than MeGUI, they always play fine and the Nero Digital properties tab displays AAC-LC. So with that being said, there obviously is something wrong with MeGUI or Nero's CLI AAC encoder.



Also, if point number 2 is correct, what did you mean here?...

note for yourself: the iPod Shuffle 2nd generation has some troubles to decode the streams encoded by this compressor. This has not been fixed yet (not in the CLI)...



In regards to alternatives to the ND AAC encoder...

check out more carefully the several AAC presets supply by MeGUI...Using Joint-Stereo should be fine.

I completely understand what joint stereo is but it still isn't stereo in it's true form. I guess I was just concerned what joint stereo might do to a Dolby Pro Logic II encode. This is why I wanted to use the ND AAC encoder instead of the Winamp encoding engine.

I truly appreciate your help but I don't want it to be pushed aside like I'm some nOOb with a problem that doesn't really exist. By saying "The Nero Digital AAC encoder through MeGUI works perfectly" as you did earlier gives me the feeling that you are under the impression that it's all perfect. If that's the case then I shouldn't have bothered posting this. I can assure you that I wouldn't have posted this without the right reasons for being concerned.

[Kurtnoise]

I set the Nero encoder to AAC-LC but after I multiplex the video and audio, the Nero Digital properties tab is identifying it as HE-AAC. The MeGUI + Nero AAC encoder combination is the only software that is causing this problem. Also, other media identifcation tools say it is AAC-LC. So the same media file is being displayed as having a HE-AAC stream in the Nero Digital properties tab, and shown by MediaInfoRaw as having a AAC-LC stream, why the discrepancy?
If you don't use the ND muxer, then don't trust the ND infos properties. That's quite simple. Believe me, all files encoded with this compressor are detected correctly with MediaInfo.

Whenever I create mp4 files (mpeg4 sp + AAC-LC) for my iPod with any software other than MeGUI, they always play fine and the Nero Digital properties tab displays AAC-LC. So with that being said, there obviously is something wrong with MeGUI or Nero's CLI AAC encoder.
Well...are you sure that all other softs use the same tools as MeGUI instead of running conclusion ?

And I told you already that there are problems with some iPods and that comes from the encoder not MeGUI. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I've made some tests with this compressor (different LC-AAC presets) for my iPod nano and all play fine.


In regards to alternatives to the ND AAC encoder...

I completely understand what joint stereo is but it still isn't stereo in it's true form. I guess I was just concerned what joint stereo might do to a Dolby Pro Logic II encode. This is why I wanted to use the ND AAC encoder instead of the Winamp encoding engine.
well...obviously no, you don't have understand what JS is.

[Ryu77]

^ Yes I do. Without going into all the technical dialect, which I am sure you know more than me about. I will just quote directly from Wikipedia as it says it better than I ever could...

The term joint stereo has become prominent as the Internet has allowed for the transfer of relatively low bit rate, acceptable-quality audio with modest Internet access speeds. Joint stereo refers to any number of encoding techniques used for this purpose. Two forms are described here, both of which are implemented in various ways with different codecs, such as MP3, AAC and Ogg Vorbis.

Intensity stereo coding

This form of joint stereo uses a technique known as joint frequency encoding, which functions on the principle of sound localization. Human hearing is predominantly less acute at perceiving the direction of certain audio frequencies. By exploiting this 'limitation', intensity stereo coding can reduce the data rate of an audio stream with little or no perceived change in apparent quality.

More specifically, the dominance of inter-aural time differences (ITD) for sound localization by humans is only given for lower frequencies. That leaves inter-aural amplitude differences (IAD) as the dominant location indicator for higher frequencies. The idea of intensity stereo coding is to merge the upper spectrum into just one channel (thus reducing overall differences between channels) and to transmit a little side information about how to pan certain frequency regions to recover the IAD cues.

This type of coding does not perfectly reconstruct the original audio because of the loss of information which results in the simplification of the stereo image. It can produce unwanted artifacts that affect this image to a perceivable extent. However, for very low bitrates this tool usually provides a gain of perceived quality.

It is supported by many audio compression formats (including MP3, AAC and Vorbis) but not always by every encoder.

My understanding of Dolby Pro Logic II is that it discretely alters the dynamics of the audio stream to allow the decoder to simulate a surround sound environment from a 2 channel source. Also as I am not using such a low bitrate, I really don't feel JS would be of any benefit. In regards to DPL/DPL II, once again I will quote from Wikipedia...

Dolby Pro Logic is a surround sound processing technology designed to decode soundtracks encoded with Dolby Surround. Dolby Surround Stereo was originally developed by Dolby Laboratories in 1976 for analog cinema sound systems. The format was adapted for home use in 1982 as Dolby Surround when HiFi capable consumer VCR's were earlier introduced and was then replaced by the newer and improved Pro Logic system in 1987. However, the term "Dolby Surround" is still used to describe the encoding technology or matrix-encoded soundtrack, whereas Pro Logic refers to the decoding technology/processor. It is the home theater version of the Dolby Stereo technology used in movie cinemas in the 1970s and '80s.

Dolby Surround/Pro Logic is based on basic matrix technology. When a Dolby Surround soundtrack is created, four channels of sound are matrix-encoded into an ordinary stereo (two channel) sound track by using phase shift techniques. A Pro Logic decoder/processor "unfolds" the sound into the original 4.0 surround—left and right, center, and a single limited frequency-range mono rear channel—while systems lacking the decoder play back the audio as standard Stereo.

Although Dolby Surround was introduced as an analog format, all Dolby Digital decoders incorporate a digitally implemented Dolby Surround Pro Logic decoder for digital stereo signals that carry matrix-encoded Dolby Surround.

Dolby Pro Logic II. In 2000, Dolby introduced Dolby Pro Logic II (DPL II), an improved implementation of Dolby Pro Logic. DPL II processes any high quality stereo signal source into "5.1"—five separate full frequency channels (left, center, right, left surround and right surround) plus one low-frequency-effects (deep bass) channel. Dolby Pro Logic II also decodes 5.1 channels from stereo signals encoded in traditional four-channel Dolby Surround. DPL II implements greatly enhanced steering compared to DPL, and as a result, offers an exceptionally stable sound field that simulates 5.1 channel surround sound to a much more accurate degree than the original Pro Logic.

Because of the limited nature of the original DPL, many consumer electronics manufactures introduced their own processing circuitry, such as the "Jazz", "Hall", and "Stadium" modes found on most common home audio receivers. DPL II forgoes this type of processing and replaces it with simple servo (negative feedback) circuits used to derive five channels. In addition to five full range playback channels, Pro Logic II introduced a Music mode which would not add any processing to the left and right channels, but will still extract a center channel and two surround channels, providing a net effect of a wider center channel.

The Pro Logic II system also features a mode designed specifically for video gaming, and it is frequently used in game titles for Sony's PlayStation 2, Nintendo's GameCube and Wii as an alternative to digital technologies like Dolby Digital, LPCM or DTS.

Please excuse me for quoting so much here but Wikipedia explains it much better than I could. If indeed the information in a 2 channel Dolby Pro Logic encode is so valuable, wouldn't it be a fair concern that joint stereo may lose some of this information? I do feel that my concern for using joint stereo with DPL II is valid. Would it be possible to explain to me how joint stereo retains all the information a DPL II encode does?

If you don't use the ND muxer, then don't trust the ND infos properties. That's quite simple. Believe me, all files encoded with this compressor are detected correctly with MediaInfo.

Does a ND muxer exist? Can you tell me where I can obtain such an application? The reason I didn't consider the muxing process being a concern is because as I mentioned before I encoded an AAC-LC stream with another application (TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress) and used the exact same muxing method (YAMB). This file had no problems at all.

[Kurtnoise]

My understanding of Dolby Pro Logic II is that it discretely alters the dynamics of the audio stream to allow the decoder to simulate a surround sound environment from a 2 channel source. Also as I am not using such a low bitrate, I really don't feel JS would be of any benefit. In regards to DPL/DPL II, once again I will quote from Wikipedia...
Instead of quoting and wasting your time, did you try what I said ?

Does a ND muxer exist? Can you tell me where I can obtain such an application?
Nero Recode...

[Ryu77]

Instead of quoting and wasting your time, did you try what I said ?

I posted that reference to point out why I do not want to use joint stereo in the Winamp AAC encoder. I think I am entitled to that opinion. At the end of the day, it is my opinion. Also, I quoted all that text from Wiki to save time, not waste it. It was much easier to cut and paste, than attempt to explain it in my own words. I only did so because you stated that I didn't know what joint stereo is. I wanted to point out that information is easily obtainable and that I've already dedicated the time to learn what it is.

Nero Recode...

Well, I have not seen access to a muxer in Nero Recode. Back to the point... I already pointed out that I have used the same muxing process with aac streams encoded with other applications. They play fine. Doesn't that rule out the muxing process?


You know what, thank you for your time but I can see that you are being quite arrogant about this whole thing. Ever since my first post you have defended the MeGUI + Nero AAC encoder like I was giving you a personal attack. I posted my findings as I thought you would appreciate the feedback to make the application better. There is something wrong with either MeGUI or Nero's CLI AAC encoder going on, as I have clearly pointed out a number of times in my posts. The whole time you have tried to say how perfect it is. Don't worry about it... I really couldn't be bothered with this anymore. I'll just use something else to encode AAC.

[~bT~]

^ when you find that something else, let me know :)

i also think something is not quite right with megui+ndaac.

[Atak_Snajpera]

"Independent" or "Dual" is Winampese for "Stereo"...

My common sense tells me that Stereo is hidden under "Independent" (Independent channels)

[Ryu77]

My common sense tells me that Stereo is hidden under "Independent" (Independent channels)

Yes, I thought so initially too but some research incorrectly indicated it wasn't.

I just did some more research and found out that it is indeed stereo. From what I found out, it is "simple stereo". I am not sure if there is any difference from that to normal stereo but from what is indicated, it is. :)

^ when you find that something else, let me know

i also think something is not quite right with megui+ndaac.

I used TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress (via AVIsynth) to complete the above successfully. You could also use Foobar. If I am re-encoding video and audio together for my iPod, I usually use Nero Recode. :)

Don't get me wrong. I think MeGUI is a fantastic application. I have recommeded it to others on countless occasions. I just wont be using it (with Nero's AAC encoder) for aac encoding.

[Kurtnoise]

I posted that reference to point out why I do not want to use joint stereo in the Winamp AAC encoder. I think I am entitled to that opinion. At the end of the day, it is my opinion. Also, I quoted all that text from Wiki to save time, not waste it. It was much easier to cut and paste, than attempt to explain it in my own words. I only did so because you stated that I didn't know what joint stereo is. I wanted to point out that information is easily obtainable and that I've already dedicated the time to learn what it is.
Ok...so, you trust an article *without* making some tests. You're free but don't count on me to help you now.



You know what, thank you for your time but I can see that you are being quite arrogant about this whole thing.
really ??? Since the beginning I told you what is the problem and you continue...So, thank you. That's give me a good point to stop the development coz I'm really tired by such people.

:stupid:

[Ryu77]

^ I think there is a BIG misunderstanding here. At no time did I say that the problem lies with MeGUI. I did say on a number of occasions say that it could indeed be the Nero AAC Encoder. I am still convinced that there is a problem because I have in fact done some cross referencing with different encoding applications as I mentioned many times.

If you saw it as an attack on MeGUI, I am truly sorry. I did also say that I feel that MeGUI is a fantastic applcation but I wont use it with Nero's AAC encoder because of the problem I have found.

There is no reason to lose motivation on this excellent application. I am still very, very thankful towards you and all the developers of MeGUI, if you are willing to receive my appreciation. I was just frustrated because I felt like you didn't want to listen to my problem. I back tracked along our conversation and now I can see that you thought I was saying MeGUI was to blame but in actuality I was very open to the fact that it could indeed be the Nero AAC encoder.

I would rate MeGUI as one of the best (freeware) encoding applcations that exist. I hope that helps lift your spirit. I never at any time meant any malice. Please continue with the good work. :)

[bond]

guys, please be nice to each other. Kurtnoise13 is a very respected member of this community and knows what he is talking about. ryu77, i really recommend you to try all the things he recommends. if you did and there still is a misunderstanding please try to solve it nicely

[Ryu77]

bond, you are 100% right. I can see Kurtnoise does indeed offer a lot to this community. This is why I posted my findings here in the first place.

Also, it is because of his reputation here that gave me the reason for wanting to back track along the conversation and see where it went wrong. I do hold respect for him and I wanted to know how the conversation went off track. I can see now that there was a misunderstanding and we were talking about different things. I hope this doesn't happen again as I would rather see everyone working together to achieve things that we are all so passionate about. This is what forums like Doom9 exist for. :)

[Sharktooth]

there's no misunderstanding. he offered you a solution and you refuse it coz you're trusting an old and generic article without even trying what he proposed.
this behaviour is an offense for the developers of any software coz positive criticism is ok, but you're basically saying you know more than them (us).
it's not the first time it happens and it really pisses me off. i wont tolerate that any longer coz that is the main reason i lost the fun and the interest in coding MeGUI a while ago...
MeGUI is free and it's developed in the free time, we dont do it for money, we dont do it for fame or glory. it's even opensource so if you find something you dont like you can code and change/correct it.
that said, draw your own conclusions coz what you see now on sourceforge could be the last version of MeGUI ever since if Kurtnoise leaves i will follow as well...

[saint-francis]

Oh shit! Guys please let's not be too hasty here. Let's not let one bad apple (or miscommunication as I hope it is) spoil it for the many many MeGUI users out there. MeGUI is, as far as I can see, the most sophisticated tool for general video encoding out there to date. I love it and use it regularly. If development ceased I would still love it, but I would also love to see even more development. As it is it works very well. We all know this (we do all of you in the peanut gallery!). Get a gmail account for MeGUI and accept paypal. Let that be known and you will receive donations. I for one will give to all of the dev's. I will do it privately if a public solution isn't desired. I'm sure others would too.
@ dev's. People who complain about MeGUI and don't offer help with issues they see or think they see are a waste of your time. Please don't think about what they say. Don't respond to them.

[Ryu77]

Excuse me Sharktooth but I think I have offered my fair share of an apology. I have said more than once how good MeGUI is. The last 2 posts I made showed that I wanted to reconcile and hopefully end any further discrepancies. Now you want to bring it up again! :( I just went back to my last two posts and highlighted the parts in blue where I felt I was offering my effort to make amends. I said it was a misunderstanding because it was...

This is why...

1) I showed proof that there is something wrong with the Nero AAC encoder used by MeGUI or the way the iPod reads it. Kurtnoise took it as if I was saying the problem lies with MeGUI. That indeed is a misunderstanding. He also stated that MeGUI and Nero AAC encoder work perfectly together. How could that be the case when I don't experience this problem with any other encoding application using the exact same muxing method (through YAMB)? What confuses me is that even Kurtnoise stated there was some problem experienced with the way an iPod reads files created with the Nero encoder, then afterwards he stated it all worked perfectly. I explained my cross referencing more than once. Would you like a sample file?

2) Kurtnoise suggested that I use Winamp's AAC encoder (based on my reference to this encoder in the first place). I then attempted to work out which one was stereo out of "Dual" or "Independant". I already decided that I didn't want to use joint stereo. He then said to me that I should use joint stereo. When I explained I didn't want to, he then said I did not know what joint stereo is! I posted a reference to Wiki to point out how easy it is to obtain information these days. Of course I have read more than that one single article. I didn't want to use joint stereo as I wanted no compromise at all in the DPL II downmix. Am I not entitled to that opinion?

3) There were a number of times that I asked Kurtnoise questions to clarify what he meant but he ignored them. :( I felt like he saw me as lower than him and that I should blindly follow his advice. I am sure that I am wrong on this but this is the way I felt.

I have also made it clear on a number of occasions that I do indeed see Kurtnoise as someone more knowledgeable than me but that doesn't take away my God given rights to my own preferences. I am deeply sorry if I have offended anyone. I would also like to offer a PayPal payment. I know for sure how much I value MeGUI and I would feel saddened if development stopped. I feel like I should have notified Nero of this problem but I am almost certain it would have fallen on deaf ears. What can I do to show you that I appreciate everything about MeGUI and the developers behind it?

[Taurus]

Come on, please stop this.
@Ryu77: I understand your arguments.
@Kurtnoise13: I understand your arguments too.
For the sake of MeGui: Let's calm down and have a more objective look at it.
Remember Gordianknot or AutoGk?
len0x and the other Devs went tired of being critized and overflooded by requests and false conclusions of users.
Don't let this happen to this wonderful new baby of this forum.
Ryu77's observations are a minor aspect of the whole.
Vista integration is another.
But to keep this conglomeration of tools working it needs a more distant point of view.
I've struggled along with GK and it became a wonderful child of his time.
Nowadays MeGui is his legitimate successor for the new age :).
So let your energy flow and don't become upset by words.
Look at what you created!
Sorry, for being a little of topic.
Let's go back to business, please :thanks:

[stax76]

Posting logs and sample output file on rapidshare would have been a better start :logfile:

[arrirc]

@arric: that's due to the fact FPS is a calculation based on encoding time. The Hibernation time adds to the calculations.

Thanks very much Sharktooth, so there is no real need to worry. Its gonna take the same time as shown at the beginning sans the hibernation time.

:thanks:

[shevegen]

Seems people here need to calm down ;)

[bob0r]

@Sharktooth.

You should not get offended by such people.
I think you have no idea how much HAPPY MEGUI users there are around the world. And i think the number is growing and growing as we speak. You all do great work on megui and i truely hope you guys will continue.

The world of x264 video encoding has just started, simply said: WE NEED YOU GUYS!

Keep your head up high, continue the good work, and sharktooth message me on irc, i got something to show you :cool:

[Sharktooth]

maybe you all should talk to kurtnoise... not to me...
as i said, if he leaves i leave too.

[bob0r]

Ok.....

Or as we say at Dance Radio FUCK IT ALL! (http://danceradio992.cz/fuck_it_all-lousy_shit.mp3)

If you like coding megui, continue, if you hate it, stop.

My personal motto: Don't look at what others do.

(And people wonder why Linux can't beat Windows, lawlifying)


/me irc only, later!

[Ryu77]

Kurtnoise and Sharktooth, can I just ask something... Are you guys looking for a Scapegoat? Are you looking for an excuse to stop working on MeGUI and just want to blame others?

Please hear me out...

I am not the type of person that starts or enjoys arguments. I am far more mature than that and I often make efforts to diffuse arguments.

At no point in my conversation did I attempt to offend or insult. It was only after I received a few belittleing comments that I decided to say something back.

I have seen more than once on this thread where someone has felt intimidated by responses from you guys. Now I am not at all saying that they are always right and you should just take everything thrown your way but there are some points to consider...

You are the face of MeGUI, so as such you represent that software. That is a leadership role where you should always have enough humility to respond in ways that never belittle others. Even if they do say things that are perceived as insults, you should be strong enough to take the high road. Everybody knows that you are what makes MeGUI what it is today. Where is your resilience?

Something so minor as something said on an internet forum would stop you developing MeGUI further?? Do you realise how crazy that sounds? If I listened to every insulting comment on the internet, I would be institutionalised by now! :confused:

I really hope you understand what I am saying here. Yes, it's true that you guys know everything about MeGUI. However, that doesn't mean that you know more than everybody else about other things. If people can not be humble enough to listen to what others have to say than I can assure you that no progress will ever be made. The greatest leaders in this World have one common trait, this is the ability to listen and learn from what others say and do, and then apply this information to make progress and innovation.

[bob0r]

I kinda agree with Ryu77 here.

Same when it comes to x264, all the dumb things i ask or say and dark and pengvado have to put up with me.
But i always get a professional response back.

What ever your choice may be i have to add this:

WHAT A GOD DAMN BAD TIMING NOW THAT x264 AQ is released! JUST FUCK IT ALL, GO OUT ON THE BEACH AND LISTEN TO SOME BOB MARLEY!!

@Sharktooth
PLEASE
update x264 808 modified .exe (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1120689#post1120689) and add the profile to megui update server!!
(Before you go to the beach)

[~bT~]

@ bob0r

as the devs are no longer willing to update megui, can we just replace the exe file for things to work?

[bob0r]

@ bob0r

as the devs are no longer willing to update megui, can we just replace the exe file for things to work?

Yes that will work, and i am sure they are willing, they just have to come on irc :)

[Sharktooth]

i dont like to repeat myself. im not the only megui developer AND if you watched the changelog it's about one year i just dont mess with MeGUI code. i just committed some simple patches here and there coz i already lost interest in megui in a similar episode of arrogance.
i decided a while ago to spend my time into more important things (real life issues) and code just when i find the "inspiration".
Kurtnoise kindly joined the megui devs coz there were too many bugs in megui. He did a great job and he doesnt deserve all this pressure. There is a bugtracker and a support forum on SourceForge. USE THEM! We asked to do that millions of times.
Also if you're going to post bugs do it the way it's meant to be done. Discussing stuff is the wrongest way to get things fixed. Only devs should do that... users should only report... unless they have a working fix (code)... then they may post it in the patches tracker.

[obieobieobie]

I've had a problem with the update_cache in megui for a while now, but I fixed it just now.

The problem was that each time megui updated, it would create a folder in the root of the partition megui is located.

I have megui in d:\misc\megui\ and it would create d:\update_cache\

I fixed this by deleting the preceding / in the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\MeGUI\update_cache entry in the registry. Now it works as intended, using the update_cache folder under the megui folder. Thus changing it from /update_cache/ to update_cache/

I am on WinXP SP2 with megui 0.3.0.0, .net 1, 2 and 3 with all the updates I could get from windows update.