Redfox (AnyDVD et all) appears to be gone

[Yarc]

A couple notes.

You can possibly save a step in your process and rip to decrypted folder with makemkv and open that with clonebd. Then you can use libredrive. This is course presumes the disc is supported in makemkv when you want to create your backup.

If DVDfab goes away, Xreveal will not be useful for future UHD. This is because it does not contain any keys at all. It's an implementation of the AACS libraries that allow decryption but you provide the keys by downloading the keydb file. So what does that have to do with DVDfab? Search this forum for findvuk to see the answer to that question. It would render anydvd just as useless for future UHD if the keydb is no longer updated, as well.

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Thanks for the tip, that will save some time I think.
Here's hoping DVDFab is able to stay in business even though the software is quite expensive.

[Treaties Of Warp]

So I take it a new UHD disc in Passkey sends data to DVDFab, they have a custom methodology to generate the decryption keys, and then they send it back to the user running Passkey. And apparently they are the only ones (at least the only ones selling commercial software) that know how to generate these decryption keys. Very interesting, to say the least.

[SamuriHL]

This is very interesting as I was not fully aware of this information concerning how the majority of keys were obtained by FindVUK. That does indeed put FabDVD in a good position although a prime target for certain organizations. I hope they survive for the legal right of making backups.

They are already targeted. I'm unsure of where that particular lawsuit is at right now but they've been in the middle of it for years.

Thanks for the tip, that will save some time I think.
Here's hoping DVDFab is able to stay in business even though the software is quite expensive.

They are most definitely useful.

So I take it a new UHD disc in Passkey sends data to DVDFab, they have a custom methodology to generate the decryption keys, and then they send it back to the user running Passkey. And apparently they are the only ones (at least the only ones selling commercial software) that know how to generate these decryption keys. Very interesting, to say the least.

This is not entirely correct. MakeMKV has their own decryption mechanism. But it's not going to help anyone but MakeMKV users because he encrypts the hashed keys that get downloaded when you run MakeMKV.

NOTE: I don't know about PassKey but presume it'd work how I'm about to describe for DVDFab itself:

DVDFab will download a module (it's configurable in the settings as to whether it does this or not) that basically grabs the VID and collects other data off the disc (AACS directory contents, probably the metadata xml, etc) and sends it to their server. In at about 50% of the cases when I've done this, it'll return the key right then from their server. The other half come back with a "we have the data, it'll be 1 to 2 days before the title is supported". I honestly have no idea how their back end process works and why it doesn't work 100% automagically.

One thing to note here, while DVDFab does work with ISOs, including protected ISOs, it can NOT fully process from an ISO alone. What do I mean? The ISO does not contain the VID and/or any other data retrieved in protected areas of the disc that are required to decrypt it. IOW, DVDFab MUST scan the actual disc at least once before the key can be made available so others that are using an ISO can decrypt it. This is important to understand and why it's highly recommended to have a drive/firmware combination that DVDFab actually supports. I use my BU40N on 1.00 for that.

[DrinkLyeAndDie]

They are already targeted. I'm unsure of where that particular lawsuit is at right now but they've been in the middle of it for years.

As of 2016 they were in violation of a shutdown order which has comically been ignored. Apparently the AACS LA was asking for $10,000 per day until they complied. No idea how that turned out but if approved that means there's like $27,000,000 in penalties piled up on top of anything else.

[SamuriHL]

As of 2016 they were in violation of a shutdown order which has comically been ignored. Apparently the AACS LA was asking for $10,000 per day until they complied. No idea how that turned out but if approved that means there's like $27,000,000 in penalties piled up on top of anything else.

There was more recent news on it than that. I'm not able to go find it right now.

[coopervid]

Will listed when I think it's as good as AnyDVD's.

It's hard to detect, for example, I don't know when it's raining, but the sunroof closes automatically when it rains. This automatic sunroof auto-close feature is already present in Xreveal. As for whether it is good enough to use, we need users to send more ziplog samples to train it.

I'm missing a message that XReveal is done. Right now it just closes and you must hope that it worked.

[kurkosdr]

As of 2016 they were in violation of a shutdown order which has comically been ignored.
Thing is, the shutdown order is from the US government, not the Chinese government, and DVDFab (Fengtao) doesn't have to care what the US government thinks because none of their business is located in the US anymore (they moved to a cn domain after the shutdown order), US laws don't magically apply to other countries.

[coopervid]

Thing is, the shutdown order is from the US government, not the Chinese government, and DVDFab (Fengtao) doesn't have to care what the US government thinks because none of their business is located in the US anymore (they moved to a cn domain after the shutdown order), US laws don't magically apply to other countries.

I already posted that in #85. Only RU and CN will survive.

[DrinkLyeAndDie]

I'm missing a message that XReveal is done. Right now it just closes and you must hope that it worked.

On all discs or just BD-J discs? I don't seem to be having an issue on any disc that I create a logfile for. I create a log and it tells me it's done with a pop-up like AnyDVD used to do. It also automatically opens the log file location in Windows Explorer.

[Yarc]

One thing to note here, while DVDFab does work with ISOs, including protected ISOs, it can NOT fully process from an ISO alone. What do I mean? The ISO does not contain the VID and/or any other data retrieved in protected areas of the disc that are required to decrypt it. IOW, DVDFab MUST scan the actual disc at least once before the key can be made available so others that are using an ISO can decrypt it. This is important to understand and why it's highly recommended to have a drive/firmware combination that DVDFab actually supports. I use my BU40N on 1.00 for that.

That makes sense, but would this only apply to new titles that have yet to have a key generated? If I have an older title such as The Martian 4K, would FabDVD identify this title and locate the possible keys and try each one until possibly finding one that works? I am unable to test this as DVDFab does not support my 4K drive. I am currently creating a protected ISO to test.

[SamuriHL]

That makes sense, but would this only apply to new titles that have yet to have a key generated? If I have an older title such as The Martian 4K, would FabDVD identify this title and locate the possible keys and try each one until possibly finding one that works? I am unable to test this as DVDFab does not support my 4K drive.It needs to scan each disc once. It does not matter how new or old it is. There are some variants that use the same unit keys. I don't know if DVDfab has logic to try them all or not. Anydvd did. But if they don't have the unit keys then the vid is necessary to calculate the vuk to decrypt the unit keys. That CANNOT be read from an ISO. So what happens in that case is you'll be forever getting a message that the disc will be supported in 1 to 2 days but the reality is until someone scans that variant with a supported drive, it will forever be in that state.

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[Yarc]

It needs to scan each disc once. It does not matter how new or old it is. There are some variants that use the same unit keys. I don't know if DVDfab has logic to try them all or not. Anydvd did. But if they don't have the unit keys then the vid is necessary to calculate the vuk to decrypt the unit keys. That CANNOT be read from an ISO. So what happens in that case is you'll be forever getting a message that the disc will be supported in 1 to 2 days but the reality is until someone scans that variant with a supported drive, it will forever be in that state.

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Thanks for all this info. As you can guess I'm not fully aware of all the processes behind the decryption of discs. In the past have been more of a user with Sly/Red Fox tools that just worked.

So if I understand correctly from what you have said is that if I am able to get Fab to decrypt a protected ISO that is because someone has already scanned the original disc and the required vid is already stored on DVDFabs servers? Until I get a supported drive I can never be the source of the required vid for DVDFab to use.

[SamuriHL]

That's right, yeah. AACS is somewhat complex in how it works. The gist of it is like this...

The contents of some parts of the disc are encrypted with AACS. To decrypt the contents you need the unit keys. On UHD there's usually just one but there can be multiple like on Blu-ray. The unit keys are themselves stored encrypted in the AACS directory on the disc. In order to decrypt the unit keys you need the volume unique key (vuk). The vuk is made from two pieces of data on the disc... The volume identifier (vid) and the media key (mk).

To read the vid usually you have to present a host certificate to the drive that allows you to read the protected area of the disc that contain two parts of the vid that are then stitched together. Libredrive bypasses that host certificate requirement and allows you to read the vid. DVDfab uses a different method to read the vid. On certain drives with specific firmware, they can send vendor commands to the drive to bypass the host certificate requirement to read the vid.

To get the mk you have to have a device key or a processing key. The dk/pk is used to decrypt the mk from the mkb (media key block) on the disc which is stored in another file in the AACS directory. The mkb also contains a list of invalidated dk/pk. Without getting too far into the weeds, it basically means those dk/pk are unable to decrypt the mk. Since it's super easy for them to revoke compromised dk/pk, this is why you don't see companies like makemkv or DVDfab releasing the ones they use. This is why you have to email dumps to makemkv and why data is uploaded to the DVDfab server rather than being processed locally. This is why there are no leaked AACS 2.x dk/pk. They are extremely difficult to acquire and if they get revoked no new titles can be decrypted.

Anyway, back to our decryption process. Now that the vid has been read and the mk retrieved, a one way aesg hash is used to combine them into the vuk. The vuk is game over... Once it's known the disc can always be decrypted. The same is technically true of the unit keys, as well but the vuk allows you to decrypt the unit keys.

Hopefully this explanation of AACS helps you understand why it's complicated and why the keydb is so useful. And also why using a protected ISO for a disc that hasn't been scanned at least once by someone will never work.

I also skipped bus encryption which is nasty in AACS 2.x. libredrive disables that for us making it a non issue. Otherwise technically you're supposed to authenticate with the drive to get the read data key (rdk) which is then used to decrypt data received from the drive.

Fun fun.

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[Treaties Of Warp]

Yes, I believe that for DVDFab/Passkey/MakeMKV/Xreveal, if the UHD title is known, then a protected ISO can be decrypted.

[Yarc]

Thank you for that detailed explanation! Yes it is complicated but I now have an understanding of the process. I guess popular UHD titles will likely already have been scanned by DVDFab users, and if not its possibly just a matter of time. Unless I get a UHD friendly drive then I will have to wait longer before I can backup my disc or maybe never. I tend to buy second hand 4K titles, so these are likely to be older titles with perhaps more chance of a vuk having been uploaded.

I have just decrypted my disc of TheMatian4K using the protected ISO approach and DVDFab, but this film was very popular and came out in 2015, so plenty of time.

Update:
I've decided to invest in a UHD-friendly drive just for good measure. My PC is of the small variety so have to use external USB drives and finding external UHD-friendly drives is not so easy so opted for an internal SATA (LG WH16NS40) and a USB 3 external enclosure (Vantec NexStar DX2). Hopefully this will work okay with DVD Fab (it is listed as a supported drive) and should keep me going for a while.

[SamuriHL]

Yes, I believe that for DVDFab/Passkey/MakeMKV/Xreveal, if the UHD title is known, then a protected ISO can be decrypted.Right but you need to define what you mean by "is known". If it has an exact match for the disc id, absolutely no problem decrypting the protected ISO. What's less clear to me is if it doesn't have an exact match for the disc id but that disc shares unit keys with another variant that is known whether it would still decrypt. Anydvd has options that would try all the unit keys in the keydb. It was slow the first time but then it cached that entry for the disc id in its OPD. Obviously with the OPD offline that no longer works but the option to try all unit keys in the keydb should still work for UHD for now. What I don't know is if DVDfab and/or makemkv have some similar functionality. Well makemkv only uses vuk so it's unlikely to do anything but a direct match. But maybe DVDfab products do I don't know.

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[coopervid]

Right but you need to define what you mean by "is known". If it has an exact match for the disc id, absolutely no problem decrypting the protected ISO. What's less clear to me is if it doesn't have an exact match for the disc id but that disc shares unit keys with another variant that is known whether it would still decrypt. Anydvd has options that would try all the unit keys in the keydb. It was slow the first time but then it cached that entry for the disc id in its OPD. Obviously with the OPD offline that no longer works but the option to try all unit keys in the keydb should still work for UHD for now. What I don't know is if DVDfab and/or makemkv have some similar functionality. Well makemkv only uses vuk so it's unlikely to do anything but a direct match. But maybe DVDfab products do I don't know.

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I think that would be a good suggestion to add to XReveal.

[coopervid]

@xreveal,

Please check and comment posts #156 and #166.

[SamuriHL]

I think that would be a good suggestion to add to XReveal.I already suggested it. It's just not added yet afaik.

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[kurkosdr]

I already posted that in #85. Only RU and CN will survive.
Suyu moved to Brazil to avoid the DMCA anti-circumvention notice that took down Yuzu, so that another potential safe country.

Generally, the laws around circumvention of DRM vary from country to country.

[coopervid]

Suyu moved to Brazil to avoid the DMCA anti-circumvention notice that took down Yuzu, so that another potential safe country.

Generally, the laws around circumvention of DRM vary from country to country.

Not really. Any country that can be pressed by the US will face economical penalties if they allow software that circumvents DRM.

[kurkosdr]

Not really. Any country that can be pressed by the US will face economical penalties if they allow software that circumvents DRM.
Fortunately, there are countries like China and Brazil that aren't pressed by the US.

[Yarc]

Fortunately, there are countries like China and Brazil that aren't pressed by the US.

At the moment at least. We must hope it stays that way.

[coopervid]

Fortunately, there are countries like China and Brazil that aren't pressed by the US.

You are wrong as much as Brazil is concerned. Brazil has trade agreements with the US. The case you mentioned is different. That software Suyu is now open source while Yuzu was commercial.

[infoxtreme]

Can someone explain this situation to me?

a brand new disc, dvdfab why does it show this error

https://i.imgur.com/8e0V4E2.png

I opened anydvd and managed to copy successfully without any reading errors

[George++]

Waiting 5 days to make a comment has rather blunted what I have to say, but what the hey.

Back in 2016 when SlySoft was deliberately destroyed by order of the US government the SS fora were still active, though not fully functional. That allowed us users to get info about what happened. And tell the devs we supported them.

That brought about the resurrection under the auspices of Red Fox - The Project after a delay. I remember RF was going to be immune from what happened to SS because there was no centralized point of contact with RF.

Well, the complete disappearance of the RF website and fora shows otherwise. Hopefully the deletion of the internet routing records also shows the user database went into oblivion as well. The "Power That Be" would dearly love to retrieve those records and prosecute any US member.

[MrPenguin]

Anydvd has options that would try all the unit keys in the keydb. It was slow the first time but then it cached that entry for the disc id in its OPD. Obviously with the OPD offline that no longer works but the option to try all unit keys in the keydb should still work for UHD for now.

If you do discover a disk that is missing from KEYDB but which shares Unit Keys with an existing entry, it might be more practical to create a new KEYDB entry by hand, and then upload it into the findvuk database via "findvuk validateDisc".

You wouldn't need to try every Unit Key in KEYDB either; just those disks with the same(-ish) title and MKB version as your own disk.

And why stop there? Disks that share Unit Keys are also likely to share Media Keys. (That's just a Fun Observation which is obviously outside the AACS spec.) And MakeMKV can tell you what the disk's VID is as well. We already know the algorithm to generate a VUK from Media Key and VID, and we can confirm our new VUK is correct by decrypting the Unit Keys inside Unit_Key_RO.inf to ensure that they're the ones we're expecting.

None of this needs a new option being added to Xreveal.

[SamuriHL]

If you do discover a disk that is missing from KEYDB but which shares Unit Keys with an existing entry, it might be more practical to create a new KEYDB entry by hand, and then upload it into the findvuk database via "findvuk validateDisc".


You misunderstand what we're talking about here. *WE* aren't doing anything. This is all done in the background by code in AnyDVD (and maybe Xreveal if that option is added). So "we're" not discovering anything. The program is.


You wouldn't need to try every Unit Key in KEYDB either; just those disks with the same(-ish) title and MKB version as your own disk.


When the option was designed for AnyDVD it was explained to me that it takes mere seconds to try ALL the unit keys. Besides, what most people fail to understand is that there have been several instances where blu-ray unit keys were shared with UHD's. ;) TRY THEM ALL.


And why stop there? Disks that share Unit Keys are also likely to share Media Keys. (That's just a Fun Observation which is obviously outside the AACS spec.) And MakeMKV can tell you what the disk's VID is as well. We already know the algorithm to generate a VUK from Media Key and VID, and we can confirm our new VUK is correct by decrypting the Unit Keys inside Unit_Key_RO.inf to ensure that they're the ones we're expecting.


Again, we're not talking about people manually doing all this work. Plus the MK has to be in the KeyDB for this to work, and while that's true of some titles, it's not true for all, even when the unit keys are shared.


None of this needs a new option being added to Xreveal.

It does if you're NOT doing this manually! And most users are not going to because they don't really know how.

[George++]

It does if you're NOT doing this manually! And most users are not going to because they don't really know how.

Even if someone knows how to do the work the process works better if done by software. Manual can lead to incorrect results being entered into the DB.

[coopervid]

You misunderstand what we're talking about here. *WE* aren't doing anything. This is all done in the background by code in AnyDVD (and maybe Xreveal if that option is added). So "we're" not discovering anything. The program is.



When the option was designed for AnyDVD it was explained to me that it takes mere seconds to try ALL the unit keys. Besides, what most people fail to understand is that there have been several instances where blu-ray unit keys were shared with UHD's. ;) TRY THEM ALL.



Again, we're not talking about people manually doing all this work. Plus the MK has to be in the KeyDB for this to work, and while that's true of some titles, it's not true for all, even when the unit keys are shared.



It does if you're NOT doing this manually! And most users are not going to because they don't really know how.
100% agree and you explained it much better that I would have could. I was just waiting and stayed mum. Thanks! :thanks:

[coopervid]

Waiting 5 days to make a comment has rather blunted what I have to say, but what the hey.

Back in 2016 when SlySoft was deliberately destroyed by order of the US government the SS fora were still active, though not fully functional. That allowed us users to get info about what happened. And tell the devs we supported them.

That brought about the resurrection under the auspices of Red Fox - The Project after a delay. I remember RF was going to be immune from what happened to SS because there was no centralized point of contact with RF.

Well, the complete disappearance of the RF website and fora shows otherwise. Hopefully the deletion of the internet routing records also shows the user database went into oblivion as well. The "Power That Be" would dearly love to retrieve those records and prosecute any US member.

Don't worry George. You were just a forum member and even I was kept from any insights. I just tried to help forum members but was never a member of the "inner circle".

[MrPenguin]

Even if someone knows how to do the work the process works better if done by software. Manual can lead to incorrect results being entered into the DB.

That is where "findvuk validateDisc" comes in handy: it compares the disk's KEYDB entry with the contents of the physical disk, and then uploads validated information.

[coopervid]

That is where "findvuk validateDisc" comes in handy: it compares the disk's KEYDB entry with the contents of the physical disk, and then uploads validated information.

This is no help for the general user who just wants to have his disc decrypted. Sam already answered accordingly.

[MrPenguin]

You misunderstand what we're talking about here. *WE* aren't doing anything. This is all done in the background by code in AnyDVD (and maybe Xreveal if that option is added).
But now AnyDVD is no more, and Xreveal doesn't have any equivalent functionality. So your only current options are:

Hope that Xreveal does what you ask at some unspecified future time, or
Do something similar yourselves along the lines I've described.

And Xreveal only runs on Windows anyway. As a Linux user, I therefore automatically discount it as any kind of solution. ("Hi!", Mac users... ;))

Also, by the sounds of it, AnyDVD used to upload its results into its own database rather than the KEYDB database. It would be a shame if all the information in that private database has now been lost, but can only hope that it was added to the KEYDB database as well.

When the option was designed for AnyDVD it was explained to me that it takes mere seconds to try ALL the unit keys. Besides, what most people fail to understand is that there have been several instances where blu-ray unit keys were shared with UHD's. ;) TRY THEM ALL.
Sure, for a programmatic solution. But I was describing something that anyone who is so inclined could reasonably do "by hand" - and do right now.

Again, we're not talking about people manually doing all this work.
But I'm sure at least some people would find it educational while they're waiting for a "deus ex machina" to arrive.

Plus the MK has to be in the KeyDB for this to work, and while that's true of some titles, it's not true for all, even when the unit keys are shared.

A manual KEYDB entry containing just DiscID, Title, Date, VID and Unit Key(s) would be perfectly fine. "findvuk validateDisc" would happily upload just that much. Adding a Media Key (if available) and VUK too would just be a "nice to have".

And most users are not going to because they don't really know how.
"Not knowing how" is something that can be fixed. The real barrier here is refusing to learn.

[SamuriHL]

Even if someone knows how to do the work the process works better if done by software. Manual can lead to incorrect results being entered into the DB.

As mentioned it can be validated but why the hell would a user want to go through all the trouble when software can just try all the unit keys and validate a portion of an m2ts and validate the decrypted hash is correct in the blink of an eye, right?

100% agree and you explained it much better that I would have could. I was just waiting and stayed mum. Thanks! :thanks:

We'll get there. :)

That is where "findvuk validateDisc" comes in handy: it compares the disk's KEYDB entry with the contents of the physical disk, and then uploads validated information.

Sure it can do that. But that still requires more knowledge than the user may possess. It's much easier if, e.g. Xreveal can just scan all the unit keys in the keydb, try them, and validate a partial m2ts on the fly.

This is no help for the general user who just wants to have his disc decrypted. Sam already answered accordingly.

Right...which is what most people are after. I am, however, sympathetic to the cause of maintaining the keydb, so MrPenguin's point is NOT lost on me at all. It's just that the majority of users have no knowledge or desire to go down this path.

But now AnyDVD is no more, and Xreveal doesn't have any equivalent functionality. So your only current options are:

Hope that Xreveal does what you ask at some unspecified future time, or
Do something similar yourselves along the lines I've described.

And Xreveal only runs on Windows anyway. As a Linux user, I therefore automatically discount it as any kind of solution. ("Hi!", Mac users... ;))


I did mention I asked for this feature for Xreveal. ;) I've already coded my own solution back when the AnyDVD Scanner was alive but it became unnecessary when AnyDVD implemented their own version of it. The scanner wasn't ever designed to handle protections. It was a tool to scan discs that were unsupported by AnyDVD so the Redfox people could try and add keys for it. And to allow other users with the same disc to know they were in the same boat.

As for the Windows thing, that must have meant you discounted AnyDVD, as well, so this entire discussion is already moot from that perspective. I sympathize but we're trying to replace AnyDVD functionality here.


Also, by the sounds of it, AnyDVD used to upload its results into its own database rather than the KEYDB database. It would be a shame if all the information in that private database has now been lost.


Not exactly. AnyDVD used the KeyDB for most of its UHD support. When it validated a unit key, it uploaded it to its OPD as a sort of caching mechanism for other AnyDVD users that didn't have the KeyDB installed/configured properly. But the data that was uploaded was from the KeyDB. So nothing's really lost from that perspective.


Sure, for a programmatic solution. But I was describing something that anyone who is so inclined could reasonably do "by hand" - and do right now.


Sure, and most of "anyone who is so inclined" with that desire and knowledge already do, right? :)


But I'm sure at least some people would find it educational while they're waiting for a "deus ex machina" to arrive.


No argument there. I'm all for teaching people. But you'd have to make the tutorial on how to do it fairly straightforward and easy to follow in order to get as many people as possible to follow it. This is why automation tends to be better.


A manual KEYDB entry containing just DiscID, Title, Date, VID and Unit Key(s) would be perfectly fine. "findvuk validateDisc" would happily upload just that much. Adding a Media Key (if available) and VUK too would just be a "nice to have".


I would argue that adding the metadata like creation date, title info from the metadata.xml, etc to make it as complete as possible should also be done. Nice to have? Yes, but, we're advocating for being good stewards of the keydb aren't we? VUK and MK are less likely by most end users but the other stuff could be done.


"Not knowing how" is something that can be fixed. The real barrier here is refusing to learn.

Again, don't disagree at all. I'm an advocate of people being able to backup their legally purchased media that costs 3 arms, an eye, and 5 legs these days. Stuff ain't getting any cheaper, and the quality of the discs (the physical quality I mean) has been steadily degrading over time.

[MrPenguin]

As for the Windows thing, that must have meant you discounted AnyDVD, as well, so this entire discussion is already moot from that perspective. I sympathize but we're trying to replace AnyDVD functionality here.
So you're saying your replacement must be Windows-specific, just because AnyDVD was also Windows-specific? That doesn't make any sense. Personally. I consider "Windows-specific" to be a bug rather than a feature.

But the data that was uploaded was from the KeyDB. So nothing's really lost from that perspective.
But was anything new ever uploaded to KEYDB? A disk which is missing from KEYDB but which is discovered to use the same Unit Keys as an existing KEYDB entry sounds like it deserves a new KEYDB entry of its own.

Sure, and most of "anyone who is so inclined" with that desire and knowledge already do, right? :)
No idea. But I'm fairly sure that some people are likely looking for new solutions right now.

I would argue that adding the metadata like creation date, title info from the metadata.xml, etc to make it as complete as possible should also be done. Nice to have? Yes, but, we're advocating for being good stewards of the keydb aren't we?
I recommend trying FindVUK's new "validateDisc" mode, as it creates and uploads a new XML meta-entry rather than a "legacy entry". And yes, this does include the information you describe.

[SamuriHL]

So you're saying your replacement must be Windows-specific, just because AnyDVD was also Windows-specific? That doesn't make any sense. Personally. I consider "Windows-specific" to be a bug rather than a feature.


Nowhere did I say that it MUST be windows only. What I did say is that because I already used AnyDVD, the replacement CAN be windows only in my case. Note the difference here.


But was anything new ever uploaded to KEYDB? A disk which is missing from KEYDB but which is discovered to use the same Unit Keys as an existing KEYDB entry sounds like it deserves a new KEYDB entry of its own.


Not by Redfox, no. They had a strict policy against doing so. I asked. Many times. They said no. Clearly I agree it should be.


No idea. But I'm fairly sure that some people are likely looking for new solutions right now.


Which is why I want to improve the products out there that can be if the author is open to it. That does not preclude other options from being created/documented. IOW, just because if Xreveal adds functionality to try all the unit keys in the keydb with a particular unsupported disc, it doesn't mean other solutions aren't ALSO welcome, especially if they are cross platform.


I recommend trying FindVUK's new "validateDisc" mode, as it creates and uploads a new XML meta-entry rather than a "legacy entry". And yes, this does include the information you describe.

I have used it. Several times now. It's very handy. It doesn't entirely fit my particular use case, unfortunately. It's, admittedly, a very specific use case.

[MrPenguin]

Nowhere did I say that it MUST be windows only. What I did say is that because I already used AnyDVD, the replacement CAN be windows only in my case. Note the difference here.

It's not a helpful difference for MacOS and Linux users. I was almost pulling my hair out in frustration trying to upload new entries into the KEYDB database, back when I started playing with BluRays. Fortunately, I have since discovered that FindVUK works in wineconsole.

Not by Redfox, no. They had a strict policy against doing so. I asked. Many times. They said no. Clearly I agree it should be.
Sounds like there might be a legal subtlety involved. Did you suggest they write a line describing the current disk in libaacs format to Standard Ouput, which the user would need to append to their KEYDB.cfg file themselves? And then execute "findvuk validateDisc" as a separate step?

My understanding of Xreveal is that it advertises itself as a pure implementation of AACS. I suspect they've decided only to read libaacs format and not to write it - for legal reasons. However, since Xreveal is Windows-only their decisions will not affect me either way.

[SamuriHL]

It's not a helpful difference for MacOS and Linux users. I was almost pulling my hair out in frustration trying to upload new entries into the KEYDB database, back when I started playing with BluRays. Fortunately, I have since discovered that FindVUK works in wineconsole.


Then you need to take that up with the respective tool authors. What do you think I'm going to be able to do about it as an end user just looking for a tool to replace AnyDVD??? DVDFab works perfectly fine on Mac. As does MakeMKV (and linux). But those won't help you with KEYDB functions. The only way to upload to the KEYDB is through FindVUK.


Sounds like there might be a legal subtlety involved. Did you suggest they write a line describing the current disk in libaacs format to Standard Ouput, which the user would need to append to their KEYDB.cfg file themselves? And then execute "findvuk validateDisc" as a separate step?


They didn't use libaacs for anything. So that wouldn't have been an option, either. They just didn't want to deal with pushing keys to the KEYDB. Not that it matters now....they're gone.


My understanding of Xreveal is that it advertises itself as a pure implementation of AACS. I suspect they've decided only to read libaacs format and not to write it - for legal reasons. However, since Xreveal is Windows-only their decisions will not affect me either way.

Writing to the KEYDB requires FindVUK. There's no other way to submit a key. So it's likely more than "legal reasons" but you'd have to ask the author.

[Kju]

P.S. A note about AnyDVD's (future) usefulness as a BD tool. I'm sure right now it'll decrypt everything you throw at it. But there's two problems, both related to whenever a new MKB comes out. Currently as of this writing, v81. It's highly probable the next MKB revokes the host cert that AnyDVD is using for BD's. There are ways around that problem, although AnyDVD changed internally their blu-ray support in recent versions which is a shame. Once they revoke the host cert that AnyDVD is using and your drive's MKB is updated, well....being able to decrypt everything suddenly becomes more of an issue unless you work around that problem. The second is the device/processing key AnyDVD is using is also likely to get revoked. That will prevent AnyDVD from decrypting any future titles even if you work around the host cert revocation problem. Basically, AnyDVD has a shelf life.

I already had my first undecryptable BD. It's the german release of Suzume and uses MKB v81. Decryption with Xreveal works just fine.

I'm missing a message that XReveal is done. Right now it just closes and you must hope that it worked.

There was no such a message on AnyDVD either (for removed BDj protections). But I agree, it would be useful to know, if there is any kind of BD-J protection and if it has been removed. Until a few days ago, I didn't even know BD-J protections exist, except for Screen Pass Playlist Obfuscation, which doesn't matter in case of iso backups. So BD-J protections must always be removed, even if I want to play iso backups in VLC or OPPO Blu-ray Player/Clones, right?

I have done some tests with Xreveal. I noticed that the decrypted m2ts files are different from those created by AnyDVD. But the Xreveal m2ts files are the same as those created by MakeMKV backups. So it seams AnyDVD changes some bits. Does anyone know why?

A big downside of Xreveal for me: It doesn't check the checksums when creating a decrypted iso. So you have to backup a protected iso, check the iso, mount the iso and create the decrypted iso. At least creating the decrypted iso is much faster than with AnyDVD thanks to hardware acceleration.

[walstib]

Not sure if it was mentioned in this thread (searched, did not find), but is DeUHD still around/functioning? IIRC, they were the first to enable UHD backups, before MakeMKV and others. The last major release had added support to work around AACS2.1 which few discs used... In any case if it is still functional, that's another backup option for UHD

[SamuriHL]

Last updates on their website are from 2020. I believe they licensed their technology to DVDFab. Whether it'll still work or not, I have no idea. I never used it.

[DrinkLyeAndDie]

Not sure if it was mentioned in this thread (searched, did not find), but is DeUHD still around/functioning? IIRC, they were the first to enable UHD backups, before MakeMKV and others. The last major release had added support to work around AACS2.1 which few discs used... In any case if it is still functional, that's another backup option for UHD

Last updates on their website are from 2020. I believe they licensed their technology to DVDFab. Whether it'll still work or not, I have no idea. I never used it.

AFAIK it still is fully functioning although I haven't tried any brand new releases with it. It's another program that is internet connected so I don't know if anything has changed enough for it to actually require an update to the installed software.

[Jamie]

Any chance xreveal will block cinavia in the future? I haven't seen cinavia on new discs in a while but I have a number of old discs that contain cinavia

[kurkosdr]

Any chance xreveal will block cinavia in the future? I haven't seen cinavia on new discs in a while but I have a number of old discs that contain cinavia
Cinavia can't be "blocked", it's a form of distortion (or more accurately, distortion carrying modulated data) that is added to the signal at the analog level. Read up on steganography for more details. Also, Cinavia relies on reverb distortion to encode its data, which is very hard to filter without thrashing the audio.

The only way to remove Cinavia cleanly is to replace the audio track with a clean version of the audio track acquired from somewhere else (DVD-Video, IPTV, broadcast TV) which is what DVDFab can do for some Blu-ray titles and some languages (audio tracks). AnyDVD HD also removes Cinavia, but it filters the original signal and hence trashes the audio (RedFox themselves admitted that music present in Cinavia-infested audio tracks would sound weird after performing Cinavia removal using their software). Of course, if you want to remove Cinavia from an Blu-ray-audio track combination not supported by DVDFab, AnyDVD HD is a solution even if it trashes the audio.

But to answer your question, no Xreveal doesn't do Cinavia removal in any way, and since you can't buy AnyDVD HD anymore, you are out of luck if the Blu-ray-audio track combo you want is unsupported by DVDFab, maybe people here know of other Cinavia removal tools. In the past I've heard of a tool called CinEx HD, but don't know if you can still buy a copy (and where from) and how well it works, other people here may know.

[SamuriHL]

Or, you know, they could be referring to the feature in AnyDVD that prevents PowerDVD from detecting Cinavia instead of removing Cinavia, which AnyDVD by itself doesn't do. That only works in combination with CloneBD. The PowerDVD "block" works by modifying the running PowerDVD process I believe. But it's unclear what they're asking for.

[datman]

Sorry about posting off topic. I just wanted to put a pin in it. I have found Xreveal to be the answer for my needs now that anydvd and redfox are gone.

Initially I didn't have Xreveal set up properly I neglected to import the keys afterward it works perfectly the few times I've used.

[Jamie]

Or, you know, they could be referring to the feature in AnyDVD that prevents PowerDVD from detecting Cinavia instead of removing Cinavia, which AnyDVD by itself doesn't do. That only works in combination with CloneBD. The PowerDVD "block" works by modifying the running PowerDVD process I believe. But it's unclear what they're asking for.

Anydvd could block the cinavia signal on the fly in powerdvd decrypted disc without using clonebd . no degradation of audio. i believe that vlc, jriver, ad mpc-be may be able to ignore cinavia so it may not be much of a loss in xreveal

[SamuriHL]

Anydvd could block the cinavia signal on the fly without using clonebd in powerdvd for a decrypted disc. no degradation of audio. i believe that vlc, jriver, ad mpc-be may be able to ignore cinavia so it may not be much of a loss in xreveal

All correct. The PowerDVD feature is what I was referring to. I believe it patched PowerDVD in memory when AnyDVD was running and that feature was enabled. Better to use a non-cinavia compliant player IMO. Then it just ignores it.

[kurkosdr]

Anydvd could block the cinavia signal on the fly in powerdvd decrypted disc without using clonebd . no degradation of audio. i believe that vlc, jriver, ad mpc-be may be able to ignore cinavia so it may not be much of a loss in xreveal
Yeah, I didn't even know that feature even existed because I never use PowerDVD to watch titles that are infected with Cinavia. For Cinavia-infected titles, I just use PowerDVD to look around the menus and the extras, and then the main movie can be watched on any player that can play M2TS and the relevant codecs.

Cinavia is an issue mainly on standalone players.