Media Player .NET (MPDN) - D3D HQ GPU Video Renderer [v2.49.0/v1.31.0 27 Dec 2018]

[ryrynz]

Sorted, cheers.

[Anima123]

Cannot configure scriptchain with the latest version. The Error message read as
InvalidArgument=Value of '1' is not valid for 'index'.
Parameter name: index

[Zachs]

Yeah I had the same issue.
Drag and drop works though. I've informed Shiandow about the problem.

[Anima123]

I think that the SuperRes with NNEDI3 a little bit 'strong' to me, not as natural as SuperRes + NEDI. Anyone else ever compared the visual quality of these algorithms that MPDN brought us?

[Shiandow]

I think that the SuperRes with NNEDI3 a little bit 'strong' to me, not as natural as SuperRes + NEDI. Anyone else ever compared the visual quality of these algorithms that MPDN brought us?

It might be a good idea to lower some of the values of SuperRes when used with NEDI / NNEDI3. Especially with NNEDI3 you probably don't need much sharpening / anti-aliasing.

[Belphemur]

Using Extensions of commit : bb8b03a3dd470ab64ff4f935022ba53e8af8f8dc (last one just merged 1h ago) I get this error.

I removed the configuration for render script in %localappdata%\MediaPlayerDotNet and still get the error.


TITLE: Error
------------------------------

An unexpected error 'Mpdn.CriticalException' has occurred.

------------------------------
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION:

One or more extensions failed to load

------------------------------

c:\Program Files\Media Player .NET\Extensions\RenderScripts\Mpdn.ScriptChain.cs(40,22): error CS0534: 'Mpdn.RenderScript.Mpdn.ScriptChain.ScriptChainScript' does not implement inherited abstract member 'Mpdn.RenderScript.RenderChainUi<Mpdn.RenderScript.Mpdn.ScriptChain.ScriptChain,Mpdn.RenderScript.Mpdn.ScriptChain.ScriptChainDialog>.Category.get'
(CSScriptLibrary)

------------------------------
BUTTONS:

&Abort
------------------------------


Corrected, if you're getting this error is because you still have some of the Old Extension along with the new one.
Remove the Extensions folder in MPDN and redownload the Extensions from Github.

[ryrynz]

I think that the SuperRes with NNEDI3 a little bit 'strong' to me, not as natural as SuperRes + NEDI.

You're not alone there. On first glance I thought the SuperRes defaults were too high and I dropped back to 1 pass and knocked the strength way down, looked a lot better to me.
I don't think the extra passes really helped much at all picture wise but I have yet to do a proper comparison to know for certain and how SuperRes + NNEDI3 stacks up to using say just NNEDI3 + a sharpen shader or Avisynth.

[Shiandow]

You're not alone there. On first glance I thought the SuperRes defaults were too high and I dropped back to 1 pass and knocked the strength way down, looked a lot better to me.
I don't think the extra passes really helped much at all picture wise but I have yet to do a proper comparison to know for certain and how SuperRes + NNEDI3 stacks up to using say just NNEDI3 + a sharpen shader or Avisynth.

I've not had much time to fine tune SuperRes + NNEDI3, but personally I use the following for SuperRes + NEDI:

Passes 2,
Strength: 0.5,
Sharpness: 0.35,
AntiAliasing: 0.25
AntiRinging: 0.5

For NNEDI3 you can probably lower the strength even more, or at the very least lower the sharpness. But maybe you only need 1 pass, it only needs to remove NNEDI3 artifacts and maybe increase the sharpness a bit.

Would it be better if I saved the values of passes, strength, etc. separately for each SuperRes variant?

[Shiandow]

Cannot configure scriptchain with the latest version. The Error message read as
InvalidArgument=Value of '1' is not valid for 'index'.
Parameter name: index

Should be fixed now.

[ryrynz]

Would it be better if I saved the values of passes, strength, etc. separately for each SuperRes variant?

Definitely. I do wonder though if NEDI is still a worthwhile option now that NNEDI3 has been included.
BTW what does SuperChromaRes use for upscaling? Thought about adding a NNEDI3 option there?

[Shiandow]

Definitely. I do wonder though if NEDI is still a worthwhile option now that NNEDI3 has been included.
BTW what does SuperChromaRes use for upscaling? Thought about adding a NNEDI3 option there?

Okay I'll see what I can do to save those options separately.

It's definitely still worthwhile to include NEDI if only because it is an order of magnitude faster than NNEDI3, and combines very well with SuperRes (with the right settings the result is almost indistinguishable from NNEDI3, despite being almost 2x as fast).

I hadn't really though about adding a NNEDI3 / NEDI option to SuperChromaRes. At the moment neither support chroma scaling, I will probably add that at some point, but I don't consider it too high a priority. FWIW you can combine SuperChromaRes with any other chromascaler by simply adding SuperChromaRes after it (unlike with SuperRes).

[Zachs]

Oh NEDI is still very important. I use it all the time on lower end systems. We are still a long way from a windows tablet being able to run it, let alone NNEDI3.

[ryrynz]

FWIW you can combine SuperChromaRes with any other chromascaler by simply adding SuperChromaRes after it (unlike with SuperRes).

SuperCromaRes stand alone resizes based on what algorithm exactly?

[Shiandow]

SuperCromaRes stand alone resizes based on what algorithm exactly?

Basically the same as SuperRes without NEDI or NNEDI3. It uses MPDN's settings for the initial chroma scaling.

[ryrynz]

Sweet. I mentioned this to you earlier but should the ChromaScaler's preset name be blank on a fresh install? You have 0.33/0.33 settings loaded which is mitchell netravali.

http://i.imgur.com/6i5kziK.png

[toniash]

Would it be possible to run SuperRes as a shader outside MPDN?
:confused:

[Shiandow]

Would it be possible to run SuperRes as a shader outside MPDN?
:confused:

Well it isn't exactly impossible, I just wouldn't recommend it.

[toniash]

Well it isn't exactly impossible, I just wouldn't recommend it.

May I ask you why?

[Shiandow]

May I ask you why?

Implementing SuperRes as a shader or even a sequence of shaders has the problem that it is almost impossible to save any information apart from the original image. You can work around this a bit by using the alpha channel, but not much. So instead of being able to calculate something and use that result in multiple places you will have to recalculate it every time, which makes the algorithm a lot harder to write and a lot slower.

[toniash]

Implementing SuperRes as a shader or even a sequence of shaders has the problem that it is almost impossible to save any information apart from the original image. You can work around this a bit by using the alpha channel, but not much. So instead of being able to calculate something and use that result in multiple places you will have to recalculate it every time, which makes the algorithm a lot harder to write and a lot slower.

Thanks for you answer!:thanks:

[Shiandow]

Sweet. I mentioned this to you earlier but should the ChromaScaler's preset name be blank on a fresh install? You have 0.33/0.33 settings loaded which is mitchell netravali.

Fixed. I've also made SuperRes save the values of Passes etc. separately for each different variant, and also added a way to assign a hotkey to switch between the different types.

Unfortunately some of the changes I had to make may not be compatible with the previous Script Chain / Script Group, so it might be necessary to delete Mpdn.ScriptChain.config and Mpdn.ScriptGroup.config. Though, with the changes I made it shouldn't be necessary to change those again for some time (I hope).

One of nicer consequences is that you can now access the config dialogs of scripts that are parts of another scripts, through the context menu. So if you open the Script Chain dialog and right click on a Script Group / Chain, or even SuperRes then you can edit the scripts that are used inside of that script. In the case of SuperRes this gives an easy way to access the NNEDI3 settings, and it makes it easier to manage nested Script Groups and Script Chains.

[ryrynz]

Awesome. Small cosmetic issue (IMO) adding a script chain with a longer name than the column width makes the column auto resize out (which is good) For example SuperChromaRes
has a long name and long description, clearing it causes it to resize back (which is fine) but perhaps you could just set the column width long enough to be able to handle all options so column resizing doesn't need to take place?

BTW I had to delete Shiandow.SuperRes.config to remove an error with the latest renderscript.

Any chance of getting the ability to change the SuperRes default prescaler name, maybe add more? (not sure how useful that would be in most situations) thoughts?

[BRM]

MPDN "crashes" after a while (after roughly 35~40 mins of continuous playback). Basically the image will freeze, but the audio track will keep playing. GUI is unresponsive, but hotkeys still work (space to pause, for instance).
Don't know if it only happens in full screen.

[Zachs]

Does it continue to work if you back out of full screen? And just to be sure, your GPU isn't overheating or anything?

[Shiandow]

Awesome. Small cosmetic issue (IMO) adding a script chain with a longer name than the column width makes the column auto resize out (which is good) For example SuperChromaRes
has a long name and long description, clearing it causes it to resize back (which is fine) but perhaps you could just set the column width long enough to be able to handle all options so column resizing doesn't need to take place?

Unfortunately there's really no way to know how large a name is going to be, you can change it to anything you want really. Descriptions can also have unlimited length. I suppose I could simply add a few spaces to the column header to avoid some of the unnecessary resizes. But it will still need to resize if you change the name to something like "Myawesomebutverylongnamedrenderscript".


Any chance of getting the ability to change the SuperRes default prescaler name, maybe add more? (not sure how useful that would be in most situations) thoughts?

I'm not too sure how useful it is to add more prescalers. FWIW at the moment you can change the name / add more prescalers by editting the config file, or by changing the settings of the "Default" prescaler. That one is actually a script chain so you can do anything with it. If, for example, you want to add an unlimited number of prescalers with custom names you can do that using a script group in the Default prescaler. Heck with a little extra code you could make it use a different setting depending on the day of the week, I'm not planning to add a scheduler any time soon though.

I could probably add a way to change the name though, that sounds at least somewhat useful.

[BRM]

Does it continue to work if you back out of full screen? And just to be sure, your GPU isn't overheating or anything?

It doesn't allow me to back out of full screen, in fact, I have to fire up the task manager and kill the process using keyboard only.
GPU stays under 70c, and is a gigabyte 280x rev3 using the 14.12 drivers. Clean installation of windows (reinstalled yesterday from scratch, though I had the exact same problems 3 days ago, using the latest beta drivers, on my old installation).

[Zachs]

Does it always happen or was it a one time thing?
I'll try to replicate it on my systems but would help if I know more details.

[BRM]

Does it always happen or was it a one time thing?
I'll try to replicate it on my systems but would help if I know more details.

It has happened 3 times so far, after roughly 40 minutes of continuous video playback (though it's worth noting I have only used this player to watch a long video 4 times). I wish I could give you more details, but I'm really at a loss for words. What would you like to know?

I update MPDN x64 whenever I can, last time it happened I was using v2.25.5, watching this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBy5kYoiPB0 (downloaded it first).

Script chain is: SuperChromaRes (6 passes) --> Deband --> SuperRes (NEDI, 6 passes) --> ImageProcessor; Max image quality is selected; D3D 11; 0 dropped frames. Defaults settings elsewhere.

[Zachs]

Well I fixed a couple of race conditions that were introduced in v2.25.5. Did it happen before v2.25.5?

[BRM]

Well I fixed a couple of race conditions that were introduced in v2.25.5. Did it happen before v2.25.5?

Yes, can't remember exactly which ones I was using before 2.25.5 (I think it was 2.21 -> 2.25.2 -> 2.25.5), but yes, it occurred before that.

[Zachs]

OK I'll try to replicate it on my systems. Do let me know if you still get this problem with the latest build.

[ryrynz]

Hey Zach when do UNORM intermediates get used exactly?

Any use cases you know of where it might be preferable to enable DWM V-sync handling?

[BRM]

OK I'll try to replicate it on my systems. Do let me know if you still get this problem with the latest build.

I will try to replicate it again using the same video as soon as I wake up.

[Zachs]

Hey Zach when do UNORM intermediates get used exactly?

Any use cases you know of where it might be preferable to enable DWM V-sync handling?

When you have your render quality set to "prefer image quality" and "prefer max performance".

Let DWM handle vsync option should be left disabled in all cases unless you get very high present times. Event then, you should first try to play around with the other settings (new path / old path, backbuffer count etc.) before you resort to enabling this option.

[ryrynz]

Thanks. Hey, any particular reason why 4 tap Jinc and 4 tap Lanczos are in the options? MadVR skipped it's 2 tap for those (probably for good reason because image quality is kinda poo with them)
Would you prefer they stay?

Also could you give MPDN the ability to remember the previous selected options after pressing okay? For example If I previously had 16 tap Lanzcos AR enabled then switched to 16 tap Jinc AR and pressed okay, went back
into the options and selected Lanzcos it would default back to 4 tap no AR. Cheers.

[Zachs]

Yes I prefer they stay.

Yeah, I'll see what I can do with getting it to remember the previous selected options.

[ryrynz]

I just checked out the usage and it's considerably easier on the GPU with 4 tap over 6 tap with Lanczos, so yeah.

Do you think now NNEDI3 / NEDI could be moved from the renderscript page to the upscalers page. Could have an area that says 'scaling performed by render script' keeping everything together.
SuperRes or even SuperChromaRes could be moved there as an option to tick, just a thought.

[Zachs]

I just checked out the usage and it's considerably easier on the GPU with 4 tap over 6 tap with Lanczos, so yeah.

Do you think now NNEDI3 / NEDI could be moved from the renderscript page to the upscalers page. Could have an area that says 'scaling performed by render script' keeping everything together.
SuperRes or even SuperChromaRes could be moved there as an option to tick, just a thought.

No. MPDN doesn't and shouldn't have any concept of an 'upscaling' render script. The render script screen could be improved further to group scripts into category like what Shiandow has done in the ScriptChain script, but that's as far as I would go. It would be very confusing when you need to chain NEDI / NNEDI3 with other scripts too.

[ryrynz]

No. MPDN doesn't and shouldn't have any concept of an 'upscaling' render script. The render script screen could be improved further to group scripts into category like what Shiandow has done in the ScriptChain script, but that's as far as I would go. It would be very confusing when you need to chain NEDI / NNEDI3 with other scripts too.

I meant keep the renderscripts stuff where it is, but allow for NEDI/NNEDI3 to be selected via the upscalers page.

[Zachs]

I meant keep the renderscripts stuff where it is, but allow for NEDI/NNEDI3 to be selected via the upscalers page.

Like I said, MPDN should be agnostic to the type of renderscripts. For example, ChromaScaler is an upscaler too - should we then put it under MPDN's chroma upscaler? NEDI/NNEDI3 are more image doublers than upscalers too. The latter can scale to any resolution but the former only doubles the image. This is one idea I am fully against from both a technical and usage point of view. Sorry.

[Zachs]

I will try to replicate it again using the same video as soon as I wake up.

I can't replicate this problem. I've just let it play for 1 1/2 hours without any problems on two separate and differently spec'ed machines.

[ryrynz]

Like I said, MPDN should be agnostic to the type of renderscripts.

Fair enough. Just figured it might make things a bit easier to find/select for some users. BTW, any plans to stick player controls (pause, play, stop) into FSE mode?

I can't replicate this problem. I've just let it play for 1 1/2 hours without any problems on two separate and differently spec'ed machines.

Did you use the same chain he was using?

Enabling Anti-ringing with SuperChromaRes seems to be shifting the chroma, I don't get the same shift enabling anti-ringing when SuperChromaRes isn't enabled.

[Belphemur]

For those using the OpenSubtitles Extension, I added the possibility to chose a preferred language in the Configuration Window.

The extension will automatically filter the available subtitle and show only the one in the preferred language. If there isn't any subtitle available in that language, it will show all the available subtitles.

[Shiandow]

Enabling Anti-ringing with SuperChromaRes seems to be shifting the chroma, I don't get the same shift enabling anti-ringing when SuperChromaRes isn't enabled.

Is that with the latest version? There was a bug which caused problems when shifting the image when anti-ringing was enabled, although I'm not sure how this would affect SuperChromaRes.

[ryrynz]

Is that with the latest version? There was a bug which caused problems when shifting the image when anti-ringing was enabled, although I'm not sure how this would affect SuperChromaRes.

Yup .11 with latest scripts.

[Zachs]

Just to clarify, when you said "enabling anti-ringing with SuperChromaRes", do you mean anti-ringing in SuperChromaRes or MPDN's Luma Upscaler anti-ringing?

[ryrynz]

The luma upscaler, SuperChromaRes has anti-ringing enabled by default. Wait on, it ain't doing it with Lanczos.. could just be Jinc. Actually can't duplicate it now.. weird.

Pretty sure I had superChromaRes disabled when I thought it was enabled when screening, hence the shift. Enabling SuperChromaRes does make a hell of a difference..

[Zachs]

BTW, any plans to stick player controls (pause, play, stop) into FSE mode?

Yes, but a very low priority one - takes a lot of time and effort for minor convenience.

[Shiandow]

The luma upscaler, SuperChromaRes has anti-ringing enabled by default. Wait on, it ain't doing it with Lanczos.. could just be Jinc. Actually can't duplicate it now.. weird.

Pretty sure I had superChromaRes disabled when I thought it was enabled when screening, hence the shift. Enabling SuperChromaRes does make a hell of a difference..

Oh well, SuperChromaRes and ChromaScaler now use the same chroma offset as MPDN's chroma scalers. So those kind of issues shouldn't happen again. If you do notice a shift in chroma again then something went wrong.

Edit: Also found some bugs, the SuperRes dialog wasn't displaying the hotkey and NNEDI3 shifted the chroma. Should be fixed soon.

[ryrynz]

Edit: Also found some bugs, the SuperRes dialog wasn't displaying the hotkey and NNEDI3 shifted the chroma. Should be fixed soon.

Cool. Are the defaults for SuperChromaRes what you would recommend for the most accurate chroma? Also do you have any test patterns at all?