Guide to convert BD 3D to 3D Left+Right Stereoscopic and Anaglyph

[r0lZ]

Nice. Indeed, you're lucky. My Samsung TV refuses the full SBS, but can display full 3D @ 47.952 fps (from a BD player).

[Nico8583]

Do you run OpenElec on a PC x86 architecture or another system (Raspberry Pi, Android stick...) ?
I don't know about full SBS output, size file, quality, etc...

[b0mb]

Do you run OpenElec on a PC x86 architecture or another system (Raspberry Pi, Android stick...) ?
I don't know about full SBS output, size file, quality, etc...

i run openelec on a zotac zbox id18. this gr8 htpc did cost me 130,- € together with 2 gig ram (dual core celeron U and intel HD graphics). that´s unbeatable for that price compared to the mediaplayers on the market you can get.

i´m encoding the fullsbs movies with crf18. the mkvs have around 9 to 26 gigs belonging to the source material.

the difference in quality between original bluray mvc stream and fullsbs is subjectively none. where the half-sbs encode of avatar or life of pi for example are looking like a 2D movie compared to the fullsbs stream. ;)

[Nico8583]

Thanks for the info, very interesting ;)

What would you like to say with this : "where the half-sbs encode of avatar or life of pi for example are looking like a 2D movie compared to the fullsbs stream." ?

[r0lZ]

That's not credible. The resolution of the video is not at all related to the depth effect. I can admit that the video may be a bit less sharp (since its resolution is divided by 2), and perhaps that there is less "detail" in the depth, but certainly not that the depth is reduced.

There have been long discussions of a French forum on the supposed superiority of half-T&B over Half-SBS, because the parallax depends of the horizontal direction and therefore is more precise when the X resolution is not divided by 2. Theoretically, it's true. But the parallax plays only a small role in the perception of the relief. The brain is much more important. And the conclusion of the experts on the forum is that half-SBS gives excellent results, not less good than half-T&B (or full-SBS). Of course, if you really think that full-SBS is superior, you will perhaps see a difference. But it's pure religion. And anyway, if there is a small difference, it's in the precise position of the "planes", not at all in the global depth of the scene, simply because the parallax do not change when the resolution is reduced. It is only somewhat blurred, exactly like the precision of the pixels.

[pistacho]

It also depends on the type of TVs technology (active / passive).

In passive TVs TAB is better and there is a technical justification:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1648284#post1648284

[Nico8583]

Thanks for informations, I have already seen in the past TB/OU is better than SBS for passive TV but after several discussions, it seems that quality between SBS and TB on passive TV is equal. But I don't have a passive TV so I can't verify...

[b0mb]

maybe its just becaus of the lower resolution but in case of avatar you loose a lot of depth ;)

[Sharc]

@r0lz
This (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1661954&postcount=453) is certainly of interest for you as well:
SBS and OU with FRIMdecoder piping into x264.
Works perfectly!

[HWK]

@r0lz
This (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1661954&postcount=453) is certainly of interest for you as well:
SBS and OU with FRIMdecoder piping into x264.
Works perfectly!

Here is example of Half SBS

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1661996#post1661996

[r0lZ]

I agree that it's a good solution, but it doesn't work if you need to do something special, like hardcoding subtitles. I prefer to wait for the AVS plugin that Neuron2 is currently developing. Thanks anyway for the information.

[Nico8583]

I'm searching if it's possible to add informations to MKV (Director, Actors, Synopsis...). I've seend BD3D2MK3D permits it with XML file and tags.
But is it exist players who can read these informations ? Or what could I display later ?
Thanks !

[r0lZ]

There are two ways to add info: the "File/segment title" (in the Global tab of MkvMerge) and the XML tag file. Some players can read the segment title, but most players ignore the tag file. AFAIK, only The KMPlayer (http://www.kmpmedia.net/) can list (almost) all tags from that file. Unfortunately, it is becoming worse at each update.

[Nico8583]

Thanks :) have you already tried XBMC ?
And for file/segment title, what kind of infos could we add ? Only title or several informations ?

[r0lZ]

Yes, I've tried XBMC in the past, but that was before my interest for 3D and MKV. I don't know what info it can show.

The segment title, afaik, is the movie title. Some players show it instead of the file name when you play the file. IMO, it can contain the title alone, or the title, director and release date, or whatever you think is useful to uniquely identify the movie.

Note that in the MKV, the streams can also have a label, so you can also add a title for example to the video stream. Same thing for the chapters. But again, only some players show that information.

[Nico8583]

Thanks, I'll try XBMC and MKV with multi informations :)

[frencher]

hi!

one thing i need to explained...

when i encode to full sbs what eye do should come first

i´ve done 3 encodes now with left eye first and i think i had luck because its looking good.

can some1 plz explain to me!

thx in advance!

b0mb

It's possible with First view of SSIF.rar (http://ul.to/b3reswxz) a small program (drag and drop compatible) that I coded for here ;)

[HWK]

It's possible with First view of SSIF.rar (http://ul.to/b3reswxz) a small program (drag and drop compatible) that I coded for here ;)

Thank you for nifty tool.

[frencher]

@HWK

You are welcome ;)

[frencher]

In binary ;)
0100101001101111011110010110010101110101011110000010000001100001011011100110111001101001011101100110010101110010011100110110000101101001011100100110010100100000010100100110111101101100011000010110111001100100

[HWK]

In binary ;)
0100101001101111011110010110010101110101011110000010000001100001011011100110111001101001011101100110010101110010011100110110000101101001011100100110010100100000010100100110111101101100011000010110111001100100

That is even more useful :D

[frencher]

That is even more useful :D

Yes now ;)
Joyeux anniversaire Roland
Happy birthday Roland

[r0lZ]

Yes now ;)
Joyeux anniversaire Roland
Happy birthday Roland
Merci! :-)

[Cedvano]

Bon annif R0lZ !

[Nico8583]

Happy birthday :)

[HWK]

Roland, Happy Birthday

[r0lZ]

As you know probably if you have followed the saga of the development of a free MVC Source plugin for avisynth, there are now two excellent candidates. DGMVCSource (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=170107) (aka DGMVCDecode), developed by Neuron2, and FRIMSource (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1662898#post1662898), developed by videofan3d. Since I can't decide myself what plugin to use, I have decided to implement both, and the user can select his preferred MVC decoder with the Settings menu. Currently, FRIMSource is probably more stable, and it can already benefit of the hardware acceleration on machines with some Intel processors. In the other hand, DGMVCSource is still heavily developed, and may later become more powerful than FRIMDecode. In both cases, if you find a bug, try to process your BD with the other decoder, and report the bug, preferably in the author's thread, or here. Anyway, the good news is that we don't have to use the unstable decoders based on the CoreAVCDecoder, and that we are not forced to use an ad-supported decoder any more.

So, finally, here is v0.30 of BD3D2MK3D. There are many changes in this version. I have simplified a lot of things, and removed some features not really needed by most users, or difficult to implement with the new decoders. I may re-introduce some features if it appears that they are really missed by several users, such as the possibility to resize the output video to 720p.

IMO, this version is already stable, thanks to the help of several beta testers, but of course, I can't be sure. If you find a bug, please let me know.

I had also the intention to re-write completely the subtitle stuff, to implement real 3D subtitles, with the depth extracted from the MVC info, but since the development of tsMuxeR has temporarily stopped, the old method based on a constant, user selectable depth is still used. That will be the next major improvement. In the meantime, I have already introduced the possibility to convert the subtitle streams with BDSup2Sub.jar (the Java version) instead of BDSup2Sub++, because the latter has some important bugs and may crash when some streams are converted to 3D SUB/IDX. Currently, the program checks if Java is installed on your system, and if it's the case, you have the possibility to select the java or the ++ version from the Settings menu. Otherwise, the ++ version is used anyway.

There is no version history for this version, because there are too many changes to be summarized. Just note that the last version based on the CoreAVCDecoder is v0.23, and the first version based on the Intel decoder is v0.30. The gap is intentional, because I may still need to fix a bug from time to time in the old version, and I want to separate completely them. However, I do not recommend to use the old version any more.

Download the latest version, based on the Intel decoder, here: BD3D2MK3D.7z (http://download.videohelp.com/r0lZ/BD3D2AVS/BD3D2MK3D.7z)
You can still download the last version based on ssifSource and DirectShowMVCSource if you really wish: BD3D2MK3D_v0.23.7z (http://download.videohelp.com/r0lZ/BD3D2AVS/BD3D2MK3D_v0.23.7z)

[mini-moose]

Download the latest version, based on the Intel decoder, here: BD3D2MK3D.7z (http://download.videohelp.com/r0lZ/BD3D2AVS/BD3D2MK3D.7z)
You can still download the last version based on ssifSource and DirectShowMVCSource if you really wish: BD3D2MK3D_v0.23.7z (http://download.videohelp.com/r0lZ/BD3D2AVS/BD3D2MK3D_v0.23.7z)

Great, thanks r0lZ!

I've noticed the add black to start/end is now set to 0 by default. Is that not needed anymore?

[mini-moose]

Gave it a test run and there's some issues for me:

Generating the 3d project after demux didn't complere and I received the next error:

can't read "default_audiofile": no such variable
while executing
"if {$default_audiofile != "" && [file exists $default_audiofile]} {
incr allstreamsize [file size $default_audiofile]
}"
(procedure "GenerateAvs" line 666)
invoked from within
"GenerateAvs"
invoked from within
".nbf5.gf.gen invoke "
invoked from within
".nbf5.gf.gen instate {pressed !disabled} { .nbf5.gf.gen state !pressed; .nbf5.gf.gen invoke } "
(command bound to event)

Another thing is that bdsup2sub++ was used. I can't find the java version in the package and the "check java installation" says I don't have java installed properly even though I do have Java JRE installed and use bdsup2sub regularly.

[r0lZ]

Great, thanks r0lZ!

I've noticed the add black to start/end is now set to 0 by default. Is that not needed anymore?It has never really be needed, but the additional frames to the end were a good thing to be sure that the missing frames due to the decoder bug were replaced by valid frames. Now, the problem of the missing frames should not occur any more with the new decoders. However, note that DGMVCSource seems to have a bug currently discussed in its thread that makes the clip turn black near the end of the movie. FRIMSource should not have that problem.

In the previous versions, there was a tab to define an "intro clip", based on a still picture or simply a short black video. I have removed that tab, and replaced it with the option to add a few seconds of black at the beginning of the video. I finds that handy to have some time to configure the TV or turn the glasses on before the beginning of the movie, but again, it's not necessary.

I will now have a look at my code to try to understand why it crashed.
Did you select a subtitle stream, or just audio?

BDSup2Sub.jar is in the archive. I have just verified.

BD3D2MK3D tries to determine if you have Java installed by issuing this command:
java -version
And java should reply something like this:

java version "1.7.0_51"
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.7.0_51-b13)
Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 24.51-b03, mixed mode)

If the command fails, for example because java.exe is not found in the path, or the command above crashes or return an empty string, BD3D2MK3D assumes that Java is not properly installed. Maybe you have to install the 32-bit or the 64-bit version of Java?

Try to type the command above in a command prompt window and see how it works.
Also, please type this:

where java

and let me know what you see.

[r0lZ]

Just checked the error you got. It happens only in 2-pass mode. I have fixed it and I will release a beta soon, but I realize that I did no test in 2-pass mode, and I want to do one before releasing the new version. But I have another encoding currently running, so be patient...

[mini-moose]

It has never really be needednote that DGMVCSource seems to have a bug currently discussed in its thread that makes the clip turn black near the end of the movie. FRIMSource should not have that problem.
I see. DG is currently the default decoder. if it's still has issues it might be better to set FRIM as default?.
Did you select a subtitle stream, or just audio?
both

BDSup2Sub.jar is in the archive. I have just verified.

and I verified I'm blind :) It appears I was searching for it in 0.23, I launched both to compare the differences.
BD3D2MK3D tries to determine if you have Java installed
I did "java -version" on cmd on my own:
java version "1.7.0_51"
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.7.0_51-b13)
Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 24.51-b03, mixed mode)

where java:
C:\Windows\System32\java.exe

[mini-moose]

Just checked the error you got. It happens only in 2-pass mode. I have fixed it and I will release a beta soon

ok, thanks.

[r0lZ]

I did "java -version" on cmd on my own:
java version "1.7.0_51"
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.7.0_51-b13)
Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 24.51-b03, mixed mode)

where java:
C:\Windows\System32\java.exe
Hum, exactly like here. I'm puzzled.

Have you the 32-bit version installed too? java.exe (32-bit) should be in C:\Windows\SywWOW64, but the "were" command doesn't return it. Type this:
dir c:\Windows\SysWOW64\java*
and you should see 3 files.

[mini-moose]

Have you the 32-bit version installed too? java.exe (32-bit) should be in C:\Windows\SywWOW64, but the "were" command doesn't return it. Type this:
dir c:\Windows\SysWOW64\java*
and you should see 3 files.

I didn't install java 32b as far as I remember. I think the cause is that I've been using direct install files from oracle.com and not the download manager from java.com. That one has optional additional software install which I don't like, and also I rather choose which version to download.

Your command returns this:

11/15/2013 01:56 PM 34,816 JavaScriptCollectionAgent.dll
1 File(s) 34,816 bytes

and I installed it using the download manager from java.com on another pc, that results the what you were expecting to see:

Directory of c:\Windows\SysWOW64

25.01.2014 10:46 174*504 java.exe
25.01.2014 10:46 175*016 javaw.exe
25.01.2014 10:46 264*616 javaws.exe

It appears to me like it's installing 32-b or cross platform. looking at installed softwares I see on the one that used the download manager installer;
"Java 7 Update 51"

on the one I only used the 64-b installer it shows:

"Java 7 Update 51 (64-Bit)"

[r0lZ]

OK, that means, as I suspected, that the version called from BD3D2MK3D must be the 32-bit version. Pity.
I will see if I can do something to fix that problem, but I don't think so...

[mini-moose]

OK, that means, as I suspected, that the version called from BD3D2MK3D must be the 32-bit version.

Can't it just accept the java installation as valid if it's just 64-bit?
bdsup2sub runs fine on java 64-bit too.
I'm guessing it's more complex than that but I don't really know how it works.

[r0lZ]

The problem is that BD3D2MK3D is a 32-bit application, and as such, can only launch 32-bit apps. Or, at least, Windows hides all 64-bit apps, and my program can't find them.
Can you type two commands again, but this time in BD3D2MK3D's console? Open the console with File -> Show Console. Then type:exec -- where java
If the 32-bit version is installed, like in my system, it replies this:

C:\Windows\System32\java.exe
C:\Program files (x86)\Java\jre7\bin\java.exe


Type also:exec -- java -versionIt will probably error out on your system. On mine, it replies this:java version "1.7.0_51"
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.7.0_51-b13)
Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 24.51-b03, mixed mode, sharing)

And note the difference with the same command launched in a 64-bit command prompt:java version "1.7.0_51"
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.7.0_51-b13)
Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 24.51-b03, mixed mode)As you can see, the last line shows explicitly that the 64-bit version is used. But from my 32-bit program, I can only launch the x86 version, even if the full path to system32 is provided, because Windows redirects the call to SysWOW64 anyway.

Unfortunately, I can't find a practical solution for this problem. You have to install the 32-bit version of Java, or use BDSup2Sub++.

I will specify in the message of the dialog box about the java version that the 32-bit version is necessary. Unfortunately, I can't do more.

[r0lZ]

# v0.30 (January 21, 2013)
# - First version using DGMVCSource or FRIMSource instead of DirectShowMVCSource or ssifSource3.
# v0.31 (January 25, 2013)
# - Crash in 2-pass mode fixed.
# - "Check Java installation" now shows clearly that the 32-bit version of Java is needed.

It includes the latest beta version of DGMVCDecode.dll (beta 12), but I can't get it to work any more. I have also the same problem with the previous versions of the filter, so I don't know if they are caused by a recent change in the plugin, or in my system. I had to reboot to be able to use FRIMSource without problem.

Anyway, you can still use my program. You should use FRIMSource if you want something that works fine immediately, or, better, use DGMVCSource if you want to beta-test it.

FRIMSource is now (and at least for some time) the default in the Settings menu, but DGMVCSource will stay selected if you have previously saved the settings with DGMVCSource enabled.

Download: BD3D2MK3D.7z (http://download.videohelp.com/r0lZ/BD3D2AVS/BD3D2MK3D.7z)

[tfboy]

Hi r0lZ,
I really like your app to quickly recreate full video or the right eye.
I've just reinstalled my system so went to download your latest version. But the options are different, and it looks like the video options are no longer there: before you could chose decode left or right eye only.

Do you know which was the last version that supported this feature and if I could download it again?

Many thanks for your great tools :)

edit: it's OK, I found version 0.23 which has what I need :D

[mini-moose]

Download: BD3D2MK3D.7z (http://download.videohelp.com/r0lZ/BD3D2AVS/BD3D2MK3D.7z)

tested it now and it seems to be working well now. thanks!

I have a few questions:

1) The bitrate calculation seems a little bit off to me when I set it to fixed mkv size. For example: I used a popular size - 4480mb (DVD5). megui calculator gives me a 3941k and the tool calculates the bitrate to 3900. I specifically wanted to test it cause I noticed in the past using mkv size results in a smaller mkv than instructed.

2) What is the purpose of _MUX_2D.cmd ? that generates a standard 2D video even if the encode was SBS (or some other 3D variation) ?

3) What is the difference between "chapters_3D_delay.ogm" (for 2D mux) and "chapters_3D_delay.ogm" (for 3D mux) ?

4) Is it be possible to make tags.xml optional for the muxing stage?

[r0lZ]

@tfboy:
Take care. V0.23 is still based on CoreAVCDecoder, and that decoder has many bugs. Hence the new version. And yes, I have simplified the output formats, due to the way the new Source plugins work. Currently, you can only encode in half-SBS or half-T&B. I may re-introduce full-SBS, full-T&B, AVC-only and MVC-only, and perhaps Frame-interleaved later, but I prefer to concentrate my efforts on the most useful formats.

@mini-moose

1) I agree that it is a bit off, but it is not easy to determine an exact formula, as I have to take the muxing overhead into account, and afaik, there is no perfect formula to compute it. I prefer to be under than over the target size, for obvious reasons. Of course, if someone can help me to compute the overhead more precisely. I will be happy to modify my code.

2) _MUX_2D.cmd simply muxes the original AVC stream with the selected audio and subtitles. It's handy to quickly create a lossless 2D version of the movie, and that was really easy to do, so I did it. It is of course not mandatory to launch it! ;-)

3) chapters_2D_no_delay.ogm is the chapters file without any modification. It is used only with _MUX_2D.cmd, and it is also the basis to create chapters_3D_delay.ogm. The latter one has the same chapters, but with an (optional) additional offset corresponding to the number of seconds of black added at the beginning of the video. It's the chapter file that is used to mux the 3D version. Of course, if the number of seconds of black is 0, that file has exactly the same content than chapters_2D_no_delay.ogm.

4) tags.xml is not really muxed (because it's not a stream or an attachment). It is only used to pass to MkvMerge the names and values of the tags to create in the MKV file. Only the tags that have been filled in the GUI are created at mux time. So, if you don't need them, just leave them empty, and only the Title tag (mandatory) will be created. Do you have really a good reason to omit it? IMO, it doesn't hurt, and can be very useful to attach the real name of the movie, independently to the file name.

[mini-moose]

1) I agree that it is a bit off, but it is not easy to determine an exact formula.
Sadly not something I can help with :(

2) _MUX_2D.cmd simply muxes the original AVC stream with the selected audio and subtitles.
Ah ok. I wasn't sure what it's for. thanks.
3)The latter one has the same chapters, but with an (optional) additional offset corresponding to the number of seconds of black added at the beginning of the video.
thanks for explaining.
4) Do you have really a good reason to omit it?
There's no "good" reason other than I like to check the mkvs in mediainfo and they are crammed with tags. I agree some might be nice to have like the movie title. But encode settings (not the used cmd itself but all the various settings that were used) or x264 version details are somewhat pointless as they are added to the header by x264 anyway.
It's just an aesthetic thing. purely my own ocd if you may :)

[r0lZ]

Oh, I see. You don't like the ENCODER, ENCODER_SETTINGS, DATE_ENCODED and ORIGINAL_MEDIA_TYPE tags. I forgot that I added them. I can perhaps add a checkbox to add or omit the "technical tags". OK?
But I have to solve a big problem before. I can't use DGMVCSource any more on my system. I don't understand why, and I have to find a solution. So, if I forgot, please remind me...

[mini-moose]

Oh, I see. You don't like the ENCODER, ENCODER_SETTINGS, DATE_ENCODED and ORIGINAL_MEDIA_TYPE tags. I forgot that I added them. I can perhaps add a checkbox to add or omit the "technical tags". OK?

Sure thing, it's not all that important, just looks too cluttered for my taste :)

[sef]

Hi Everyone! May be useful to someone. Now MVCsource.dll (2.1.1) only works when BDtoAVCHD installed. Decided to fix it. Inside archive dll and script avs, for example.

MVCsource.dll (2.1.1) (http://rghost.ru/52477145)

[r0lZ]

Thanks, sef, and welcome to the Doom9 forum.

Your help is much appreciated, but we don't need MVCSource any more. There are two plugins freely available now, and at least, BD3D2MK3D use them. I don't need a third one. But your mod can perhaps be useful to some of us.

[pistacho]

Hi Everyone! May be useful to someone. Now MVCsource.dll (2.0.0) only works when BDtoAVCHD installed. Decided to fix it. Inside archive dll and script avs, for example.

Wow! Thanks for cracking it!

This shows that for some my plugin is still valuable. :D:D:D

Anyway I think I've solved a major problem (or excuses) why some people did not want to install my program:

Version 2.1.0 (01/24/2014)


New: Output mode 2D+3D .ISO (BD Remux) if input is a 3D Blu-Ray. Can also determine if there is enough space on a BD-25 without recompress the video.
New: 3D button on main window for selecting the 3D output mode for the current conversion (2D/SBS/TAB/2D+3D .ISO). Appears only if the input is a 3D Blu-Ray.
Improved: Scan Bitrates function scans .ssif files in 3D Blu-Ray.
Improved: MVC/AVC eye assignation (left-right) is shown also in source proprieties (main window).
Improved: removed Haali Matroska Muxer of the installation package as it is not needed anymore. In some conversions that required to create a temporary MKV, now an alternate/more direct method is used.
x264 updated to revision r2389.
Mkvmerge updated to version 6.7.0
Added tsMuxeR version 2.6.12



BDtoAVCHD installation no longer interferes with the installation of Haali Splitter :)

[Cedvano]

Hi Everyone! May be useful to someone. Now MVCsource.dll (2.0.0) only works when BDtoAVCHD installed. Decided to fix it. Inside archive dll and script avs, for example.

http://rghost.ru/51930112

Crack is not the soluce FRIMsource exist for that !

Keep MVCSource to pistacho.

[mini-moose]

BDtoAVCHD installation no longer interferes with the installation of Haali Splitter :)

thanks for plugging your adware here.