RealAnime 5 - Feature Request and Development Thread

[Guest]

@Eretria-chan

Don't forget rule 4, both for profanity and insults. Thank you.

[Eretria-chan]

@Eretria-chan

Don't forget rule 4, both for profanity and insults. Thank you.
Please don't think of this as an insult. I was disappointed and gave my view of opinion.

@Lain:
From what I see, you are simply dissing RA. You include a lot of crap into the download package--something that Sirber wanted to avoid, which also was a reason why he removed some features. And now you drop matroska support. I'm just saying that if you continue to ignore everyone's requests, then no one will give a damn about the program. Even if it is an excellent tool. I've used it since 4.x and found it to be a terrific tool. But since you now are going the absolute different way, it's becoming more and more bloated.

Anyhow, I *would* contribute to the project in terms of programming in any way I could, IF the project wasn't in Delphi. I don't know Delphi. I don't want to learn Delphi. So I'm out of luck. :scared:

Doing a batch tool is easy, sure... but I don't know about profiles and other things - how to do the audio encoding, what options to you with the video encoding... how to merge it all. If I knew all that, then maybe, just maybe, I might have tried to do something on my own.

[Guest]

Please don't think of this as an insult. I was disappointed and gave my view of opinion. Do it without making scatological references. It's not necessary, does you no credit, and lowers the tenor of the forum. If you want to discuss this more, please use PM.

[LAIN]

@Lain:
From what I see, you are simply dissing RA. You include a lot of crap into the download package--something that Sirber wanted to avoid, which also was a reason why he removed some features. And now you drop matroska support. I'm just saying that if you continue to ignore everyone's requests, then no one will give a damn about the program. Even if it is an excellent tool. I've used it since 4.x and found it to be a terrific tool. But since you now are going the absolute different way, it's becoming more and more bloated.

Eretria-chan, i can't add any features / crap in the soft everything that is in it, need to be thare and i dont know anything about video encoding, i only do programming and help sirber do some clases / function. for the user request, we dont ignore them, it's just decision that we decided. If you can read on the forum, we have already included some features in filtering (Video and Audio) in the current developing stage of realanime but it is principaly concerning the mp4 container since mkv can be used in 4.x. we want to optimize every settings related to mp4 (for now) on this tool. If there is anything related to mp4 or any profiles for any devices that support mp4 we will probably enjoy to add it, but like i say, we concentrating out efforts on mp4 that's why mkv is put asside for some time.

Since MKV have been a good subjet of arguing, that might me a good point to add it to the project since there is more people talking about is removal than the chance to fully work with MP4. I was against removing this container for ra 5.x, but i'm not the project lead/main programmer and sirber is the guy how know more about video/audio encoding than me, i let him follow his idea and only support him. We have been talking about adding mkv when realanime mp4 function will work, but it is not for now. i just dont want you to think that we dont read request/bugs of users, we read every of them and talk about them regulary. We also talk about the way of implement it or a way to set up our structure the easyest/clearest way so that we can add new container/filter/codec.

[Edit]

btw, i'm not programmer, i'm a network administrator and i'v learned delphi only for realanime. I also dont want you to think bad thing about realanime. we seriously take users comments and think about it, it is with all your help that we are able to make a good program that work nicely

[Edit2]

If you want to continu this conversation, just PM, i'll answer all your question.

[Eretria-chan]

Then I will add:
Very well. I shall wait and see how this develops. In the mean time, I will use another software.
Still disappointed with this decision, though. Most members on Doom9 prefers mkv over other containers.

[Kayser]

I like mkv as well, but support Lain's and Sirber's desition all the way. If they want to make it mp4 only, then be it... If I want to remux the files into matroska I can...
@Sirber and Lain: Maybe this hassle would be avoided adding a checkbox that omits the muxing into a container process... I mean, leave the audio and video separately, and then the user could choose their container if they didn't want mp4... Just a suggestion though

[LAIN]

@Sirber and Lain: Maybe this hassle would be avoided adding a checkbox that omits the muxing into a container process... I mean, leave the audio and video separately, and then the user could choose their container if they didn't want mp4... Just a suggestion though


Thankx for the suggestion, i'll take a look for it. It might not be hard to do! :D

[Sirber]

I'v talked with Sirber concerning the MKV output. We agree to only have MP4 output. The main reason that we decided to remove it it that we need a version of realanime more simple that support principally ipod output. another reason that mp4 is a "standard" output that can be played on almost every os.iPod is not default output... I chose MP4 coz it's the standard way to store AVC and AAC.

[Eretria-chan]

The installer is way too big. Thou shalt not have my support in that.:devil:
Not that it matters, I guess...
Anyhow, don't fail us with your plans! We shall look forward to a 1337 version of RA this time!

[LAIN]

Hi,

there was a modification on our distribution server, i hope that it will answer faster to download request. there might be some old link that dont work on www.detritus.qc.ca and for now the changes cannot be made (i'm not the web-admin of this page). here is a link that will allow you to download the files.

http://detritus.sobanet.com/files [Europe]

[Edit]

new mirror :
http://mirror2.sobanet.com/files [USA]

[killerhex]

can you make this version better at encoding x264[avc]>xvid or >rmvb i get flipped picture everytime i tried encoding to rmvb or xvid with RA4

[Eretria-chan]

Does that mean encoding TO XviD? If so, then you had better read the thread more carefully...

[killerhex]

yea i read again saw th xvid wasnt included in the program sry

[LAIN]

Great news for MKV user,

Sirber finally agree to add the mkv option in realanime5.

[edtee]

Great news for MKV user,
Sirber finally agree to add the mkv option in realanime5.
:thanks:

As a recently new user/convert of RA this is great news. :) I appreciate your continued work on this usefull tool. I can understand your desire to perfect mp4 first, since it is your effort that makes RA possible. However I look forward to seeing MKV output show up in RA5, even if it takes a while.

[DeathTheSheep]

Nero encoder must be specifically instructed to encode with parametric stereo at 48kbit bitrate; otherwise it encodes with only SBR resulting in inferior quality. ... Nero@48kbit with default settings is really bad, I actually like 32kbit better than 48kbit.
Sorry to interrupt what appears to be a highly civilized discussion, but I'd just like to make a few remarks as to the validity of the above quotation.
It has been scientifically proven by means of widespread ABX audio testing that Nero's specific implementation of 48kbps HE-AAC is indeed superior to its implementation of 48kbps HE-AACv2. Questions of "what's best" are what Hydrogenaudio does best, and thus both from a personal and scientific perspective do I fully agree with their conclusions for the vast majority of audio sources.

Additionally, the delay with the latest Nero audio encoder is very small and nearly impossible to detect by the vast majority of users. Thus I recommend that RA5 refrain from the implementation of all features that will not produce a perceivable benefit to the vast majority of users.

This program is designed for the purposes of simplicity and usability, as well as high performance. The less it is shackled by outdated and inferior codecs, the better. I'm glad that the ultra-modern, widely used, powerful, and feature-filled Matroska has returned to RA5, for most users prefer this format over MP4 for one reason or another.

However, I share in part the same opinion as some of this board's members, chiefly that the user should have the ability to select which components to install via a simplified 512KB installation wizard. The selection of, for instance, 3 installation options--"Tremendous," "Bloated," and "Recommended"-- would allow the user the option to download and install which package best suits him/her. To cut down on installation size, the files are then downloaded from the detritus server from within the installation wizard itself. I believe this method, once implemented, would solve many problems which have so plagued and divided the RealAnime userbase since its conception.

My highest regards to Sirber, Lain, and all who contribute to the RA project,
DeathTheSheep

[Dark Eiri]

I think RealAnime5 should just have X264 with AAC and MP4 for container. Why? Well, for XviD encodes with MP3 audio, you can use MeGUI or something like that (even VirtualDub). And it is easy to remux MP4 to MKV, right? I think the package could be real light, without players and stuff. Just add a link to ffdshow and Haali Media Splitter to the website, and it's done!

[Eretria-chan]

Finally woke up from that horrible nightmare, have you? :D Finally matroska support!
I just have to agree with TheDeathSheep on the installation size... I wouldn't find it too hard to add little checks in the program that checks if the proper things are installed to use them. That way, we can use whatever way of encoding we want without "the bloat." If we want to use a feature, we simply install it. If not, then we skip it. No need to download huge amount just to use it then. That is my wish and my dream. And I hope as you decided to keep matroska that you shall also make this dream come true. This I dream... and shall continue dreaming...

I think RealAnime5 should just have X264 with AAC and MP4 for container. Why? Well, for XviD encodes with MP3 audio, you can use MeGUI or something like that (even VirtualDub). And it is easy to remux MP4 to MKV, right? I think the package could be real light, without players and stuff. Just add a link to ffdshow and Haali Media Splitter to the website, and it's done!
The purpose of the application is batch encoding. I certainly don't want to remux every mp4 container to mkv (and lose a lot of time on that as well). All I would want, and all RA was made for I'm sure, is a one click batch encoding solution. Kind of. I think.

[clone83]

iPod is not default output... I chose MP4 coz it's the standard way to store AVC and AAC.

Ok that might be true but with mp4 you are not able to addformats such as ssa/ass (which i have been waiting for them to release it with it) and mkv does... And sirber as u can see mkv is used by more people then the mp4 community.

[Sirber]

Ok that might be true but with mp4 you are not able to addformats such as ssa/ass (which i have been waiting for them to release it with it) and mkv does... And sirber as u can see mkv is used by more people then the mp4 community.
That's why I wanted to hardsub ;)

So in output tab you will have "I prefer Matroska output" and "I prefer soft subtitles". But RealAnime reserve the right to hardsub and not use matroska if something bothers it.

The installer is way too big. Thou shalt not have my support in that.:devil:
Not that it matters, I guess...
Anyhow, don't fail us with your plans! We shall look forward to a 1337 version of RA this time!
I will have the big installer and a small installer (base) with package you can add (matroska, realvideo + theora, etc). So evberyone will be happy. everyone :devil: ;)

[Sirber]

RealAnime 500 setup (18 MB):
* RealAnime 5
* Matroska support
* RealVideo support
* Theora / Vorbis support
* AVISynth
* FFDShow
* Matroska splitter
* Helix YUV codecs (needed for AVS parsing)

RealAnime 500 light setup (5MB):
* RealAnime 5
* Helix YUV codecs (needed for AVS parsing)

RealAnime 500 light external package:
* Matroska package (2MB)
* Extra codecs package (4MB)

[killerhex]

so whens the release

[Eretria-chan]

When you reach 1000 posts. And when it's ready.

[Sirber]

I was about to say when my wall of empty sake bottle would be complete, but I guess your answer is better ;). I just slept more than 12h, coming back from Australia is hard.

Yesterday I played with the installers and they are near complete, today I might play with the input manager to add MP4 support and MKV/OGM support.

I had an idea yesterday too, what if I add .torrent support? RA5 would download it (them if many files), then encode the file(s) while seeding the torrent, then when it's over, the seeding stop and RA goes to the next file in queue, .avi or .torrent or anything. I'm still looking for a software in commandline for that so it's just an experimental idea. What do you think?

[Eretria-chan]

So you don't forget, Sirber...

[18:00:26] Sirber: gm
[18:00:33] Sirber:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=842739#post842739
[18:00:40] (li) Atarash: Another idea seemed to have hit me...
Is it possible to make RA intelligent enough to start the
second pass of x264 if you abort encoding at the second
pass? It would make re-encoding faster when restarting the
computer.
[18:01:23] Sirber: problem is old first pass file goes anywhere on the
hdd, and is kept when the encoding is complete
[18:01:32] Sirber: so I might hit a wrong first pass file
[18:01:37] Sirber: and screw the encoding
[18:01:47] (li) Atarash: Can you not tell x264 where to place it?
[18:02:12] Sirber: it put it on the output folder I think
[18:02:39] Sirber: I could delete it after an encoding
[18:02:52] Sirber: but I cannot know if the file is omplete
[18:03:17] (li) Atarash: Aye, so it does put it in the output folder,
but is there any way to tell x264 where to place it?
[18:03:28] (li) Atarash: The program could remember what pass it was
on when it was aborted.
[18:03:28] Sirber: but I can add something in RA5 so it reember if 1st
pass was done
[18:03:39] (li) Atarash: It would save some time :)
[18:04:17] Sirber: well, post this log on doom9 so I remember it :P

The whole torrent idea is neat, but there may be some problems to tackle. Contained within RA, I don't think the user would have that much control over the torrents like many other programs does. What would be cool though, would be to download them in order (episode 1 first, then episode 2, etc), possible linear (from start to end, not random chunks; kinda like http). Also it could show progress how much has been downloaded. That would be cool. But remember that you really should continue seeding until the ratio is at least 1.0 or greater! Otherwise you're ripping off other members of the community, basically, and RA may be banned from trackers.

[Sirber]

What's left to do for first public release:

Input: AVS, MP4, MKV, OGM
Hard track on input (audio dub, external subtitle)
Filtering
Subs (hard and soft)
Output: MKV
Codec: RV10, Theora
Engine: reuse first pass stats if complete
Audio: automatic delay fix

[Sirber]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2f/AAC_low-delay.png

Can someone confirm the delay for AAC (LC, HE, HE+PS) ?

[Sharktooth]

Never experienced any delay here.

[daverc]

I don't know if you still use avs2wav.exe, but it was responsible for delay with mp3vbr input. I don't know if this graph is really related to audio video synchro in MP4 / MKV.

[Sirber]

I'm using avs2wav for RA5, RA4 and bellow was using BeSweet and we had a delay.

[Eretria-chan]

Sirber, do you think a derainbow filter is possible? There are some clips that has this problem.
For that matter, I found something...
I agree with you, merange 8 not disturb quality, and very little decrase PSNR and SSIM, but spedup is huge!
Maybe you should check it out!
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=110636

[Sirber]

hum... interresting. Do you recomment it for "Normal" quality?

Normal: 8
Better: 12
High: 16

?

[Eretria-chan]

I'd rather have it as low as possible if it has such impact of speed while little impact on quality.

[Sirber]

so 8 for all modes?

Also can you point me on a page with DeRainbow filter and doc?

[Sirber]

did not find any speed boost with merange=8.

Never experienced any delay here.
Maybe you just can't notice a 200ms delay... ;)

[Sirber]

Here's a test for 3 bframes versus 16 bframes. If 16 bframes is good on anime, it might get set as new default or as an advanced option. Please watch both clip and post comments!

Download (http://www.detritus.qc.ca/files/3bf_vs_16bf.torrent)

Note: the torrent is trackerless, so you need a DHT-compatible torrent client like uTorrent.

[edit]

there are 3 files:
412: Medium quality
413 + 3bf: High quality + 3 bframes
413 + 16bf: High quality + 16 bframes

[Sirber]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2f/AAC_low-delay.png
Code is done:
// *** Audio Delay ***
iDelay := 0;
// Add user delay
if (oSetting.bFDelay = true) then
iDelay := iDelay + StrToInt(oSetting.sFDelay);
// Add delay for HE-AAC PS
if ((oSetting.iVCodec = 0) and (oSetting.iProfile = 0)) then
begin
case oSetting.iAQuality of
0: iDelay := iDelay - 0.350; // 24kbps
1: iDelay := iDelay - 0.250; // 32kbps
2: iDelay := iDelay - 0.175; // 48kbps
end;
end;
avs.Add('DelayAudio(' + FloatToStr(iDelay) + ')');
I hope this problem will be fix once and for all :devil:

[Sirber]

Here's the AVS made with RA5 at default:

# RealAnime 5
DirectShowSource("E:\Anime\Tests\E003.avi")
EnsureVBRMP3Sync()
DelayAudio(-0.25)
Normalize()
ConvertToYV12()

[Sirber]

Source: Naruto intro (1m 39s), sadly in low Q
Output: RA5 default settings with automatic audio delay enabled

Download (http://www.detritus.qc.ca/files/audio test.torrent)

Warning: video quality is bad. this test is to show audio delay correction code above.

[daverc]

Here's the AVS made with RA5 at default:

# RealAnime 5
DirectShowSource("E:\Anime\Tests\E003.avi")
EnsureVBRMP3Sync()
DelayAudio(-0.25)
Normalize()
ConvertToYV12()

The EnsureVBRMP3Sync() will be usefull for audio sync if you do some Trim() in the avs. I'm not sure it has any effect if you process the whole stream. Keep it. Anyway if you have solved it : Good Job. If not try bepipe, as it provides progress report and maybe better sync. Problem is you won't be able to do 2 pass encoding.

[Eretria-chan]

I've news regarding derainbowing...
The DeRainbow script for AviSynth seems to work pretty well, now that I've finally gotten it to work. The downside? It doesn't remove ALL rainbows. And it has variables strength, of course. At the maximum strength, I found it to be quite memory consuming and playing back the file resulted in about 30% CPU utilization. That is, a noticeable speed drop if doing encoding.

I was wondering, though... given enough space was available, would it be possible for RA to use a lossless encoding with the avisynth script to remove rainbows and/or other things with filters and then encode it? This would save time I'm sure, at the cost of disk space. Perhaps something to look into.

[Sirber]

The EnsureVBRMP3Sync() will be usefull for audio sync if you do some Trim() in the avs. I'm not sure it has any effect if you process the whole stream. Keep it. Anyway if you have solved it : Good Job. If not try bepipe, as it provides progress report and maybe better sync. Problem is you won't be able to do 2 pass encoding.TDosCommand (delphi) doesn't like piping, so BePipe doesn't work.
I've news regarding derainbowing...
The DeRainbow script for AviSynth seems to work pretty well, now that I've finally gotten it to work. The downside? It doesn't remove ALL rainbows. And it has variables strength, of course. At the maximum strength, I found it to be quite memory consuming and playing back the file resulted in about 30% CPU utilization. That is, a noticeable speed drop if doing encoding.

I was wondering, though... given enough space was available, would it be possible for RA to use a lossless encoding with the avisynth script to remove rainbows and/or other things with filters and then encode it? This would save time I'm sure, at the cost of disk space. Perhaps something to look into.
Can you give me a link on for the filter, and settings? About lossless I could try but an anime in lossless sue 20-30GB space...

[Eretria-chan]

About lossless I could try but an anime in lossless sue 20-30GB space...
But if possible, it can save time =)
Let's wait a little for the filtering part, shall we? Still investigating.

[Sirber]

If I know which fitlers are slow, I can extract lossless only if slow fitlers are used. But... I'd need to add mencoder (8MB) to the package... :p

[Eretria-chan]

Hint: External package ;)
To my knowledge, good filters are slow. And any filter slows down as you know.
Have you evaluated the clips yet?

[Sirber]

not yet, been on big party all weekend.

I'm not sure if doing 3 pass (filtering + first + second) vs 2 pass (filtering + first, filtering + second) if we would see any difference in speed...

[Eretria-chan]

I don't know if lossless is fast or not, but doing 2 pass, we'd have to do filtering twice, yes? Plus using slow filters, that's two very slow passes, so I would get we WOULD get a speedup.

[daverc]

TDosCommand (delphi) doesn't like piping, so BePipe doesn't work.

Can you give me a link on for the filter, and settings? About lossless I could try but an anime in lossless sue 20-30GB space...

BePipe does not work with . Net either.
Easy workaround :
I put bepipe commandline in a temp batch file each time.
Then it works well.

I 'm also sceptical about adding a temp video file.
Lossless will need either a flv1 or huffyuv commandline encoder. Both are good but speed improvement over xvid or mpeg 2 decoding is not that huge. On the other hand it keeps file sizes reasonnables.

[Eretria-chan]

Well, quality encode with huffy gave about 160 fps. Now compare that to when encoding with XviD or x264.
I tested an avisynth script with SmoothUV + RemoveNoiseMC and the result was about 5 fps. Imagine how it would CRAWL when encoding with x264 like this.
Well, it was merely a suggestion, I don't know if it will work or not. I'm not an expert.

[Sirber]

Added FastEDIUpsizer and DeRainbow. still need the DLL and AVS for DeRainbow.

Stop and Error Management is done too. Gonna start RV10 tonight.