SubtitleCreator (alternative to srt2sup)

[AcidDeath]

hellow
i have some questions!

i normally make PAL dvd's from avi files
but what are the best vertical settings for a widesreen TV playing a PAL movie? what do you use, guys?

and what are the standard IFO coulors the program use?
for changing in IFOEdit, so:
coulor 0 = ?
coulor 1 = ?
coulor 3 = ?
coulor 4 = ?

and, i made a sup file in a movie, but, when playing it on TV, i sometimes can see the subtitle!
in the black box under the widescreen movie, i see a kind of white "shadow"
so i see that there have to be a subtitle, but i don't see him at all!

and my last problem: have can i save my settings or change the XML file? I can't do it, and it's very irritating changing it all the time!

thank you very much

PS: what about my english?
:D is it as bad as I think it is? Normally i speak dutch
on my exam English, i had 65% :cool:

[Paulcat]

Originally posted by CoNS
You'd need another tool for that, too, wouldn't you? To adjust the timecodes to match the different framerates of the two formats?

If I was some sort of ultra-videofreak I would slow the video back down to 23.976 fps and time-compress the audio 4%, convert the video to ntsc and rebuild the dvd...but I'm not. If the English can't tell the difference between 23.976 and 25 fps, who am I to argue. As long as the running time is unchanged, the subs and audio can be left alone...and I spend less time watching movies :-) !!!

[AcidDeath]

Originally posted by AcidDeath
hellow
i have some questions!

i normally make PAL dvd's from avi files
but what are the best vertical settings for a widesreen TV playing a PAL movie? what do you use, guys?

and what are the standard IFO coulors the program use?
for changing in IFOEdit, so:
coulor 0 = ?
coulor 1 = ?
coulor 3 = ?
coulor 4 = ?

and, i made a sup file in a movie, but, when playing it on TV, i sometimes can see the subtitle!
in the black box under the widescreen movie, i see a kind of white "shadow"
so i see that there have to be a subtitle, but i don't see him at all!

and my last problem: have can i save my settings or change the XML file? I can't do it, and it's very irritating changing it all the time!

thank you very much

PS: what about my english?
:D is it as bad as I think it is? Normally i speak dutch
on my exam English, i had 65% :cool:

anyone?? please

[hej456]

Hey Paddington, just wanted to know how long you were expecting it to take before a version which allows you to reposition the org. subs?

I am not impatient, just can't wait to test that feature... :)

Thanks for all your hard work on this fine program.

[Paddington]

Sorry to keep you waiting, but CoNS has done some beta testing for you all (THANKS AGAIN), and I didn't fix all the bugs he has found, but still wanted to give you the opportunity to test it as well. Go to here (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=120228&package_id=151984) and try the beta version if you dare.

New additions:

Added the SUP tools tab, which allows you to change an existing SUP plus preview
Change the vertical position of a subtitle in the SUP file (all subtitles or only the selected one)
Change the colors you wish to use (all or selected).
Saving of SUP to Bitmaps (bmp, png, jpg) using 4 bits per pixel
Reading SUP files for advanced synchronization now uses the new SUP reading routine, which is much faster
When no SUP is available, you can synchronize as well using the DVD preview option in the normal preview window
In the preview window, you can now search for a string (S) and repeat the search (A)
@mp3boy: I had a go at the problem you've experienced with Persian fonts. If you go to the (normal) preview window, right click on the background, and unselect 'Original rendering' (and set outline to 2), it will use a different approach to creating the outline and AA, hopefully without interrupting the ligatures between letters. Please give it a try and let me know if it works (it will look less nice at the moment, but at least I will know that I am working in the right direction)

[hej456]

Just did a little repositioning - you are my hero, nice prewiew window with great and simple features.

[hej456]

Done some testing, and once the respositioned sub turned out like this. I loaded the ifo and all. Placed the sub where I wanted it, and saved it. Then I loaded it back and got this result.
http://medlem.jubii.dk/yamada6700/screen.jpg

[hej456]

and this is from another movie also with the correct ifo loaded, the preview seems just perfect like this:

http://medlem.jubii.dk/yamada6700/screen3.jpg

but after I save, when I load the saved sup or put it on the dvd it looks wrong like this:

http://medlem.jubii.dk/yamada6700/screen2.jpg

hej456

[Paddington]

@hej456 Do you mind sending me the IFO and SUP by email (send me a private message, and I will send you my email address) so I can do some testing. Thanks!

[hej456]

PM send to Paddington, will send you the files when I get your mail.

[hej456]

Mail at your sourceforge mail.

[Paddington]

I've fixed the above bug: check out Sourceforge (http://sourceforge.net/projects/subtitlecreator/).

Fixed a bug for manipulating SUP files which use a non-zero background color index.
Added shortcuts in the normal preview window (CTRL-F for finding text, CTRL-B, I, U for Bold, Italics, Underline, and CTRL-L, R, E for left, right and center alignment).

[Paulcat]

I just had a look at the new build, pretty impressive, and the layout of the preview window is much cleaner. Well done. Now only if I had some subtitling to do...

Paul

Keep up the good work!

[sharkybacsi]

I've just started to use your app, great piece of program, much better, than srt2sup.

However, i discovered a bug I think.
I read only the last two pages of the thread, sorry if it was discussed before.

I live in an Eastern-European country, so my computer uses Eastern-European text coding by default. I tried to add an italian subtitle to a dvd, and it was coded according to the Western-European character table, so some of the characters looked ugly in the preview window, as well as in notepad for example. In srt2sup I could change the character-coding, and it showed the right characters. In subtitlecreator 1.6.1 I can change the coding in the font window, but it seems to me, the app doesn't realize it, the preview window doesn't change, and when I go back to the font window, it shows the default choice (Eastern-European) again. In 1.7b4, I can't even change it, because there it shows only the default choice.
So I had to change my computer's global settings to italian, reboot, and then I was able to use the Western-European characters.
Is there a way to change the coding in subtitlecreator, did I miss a setting?

Apart from it, it's a great app, works beautifully, and quickly.

Thanks.

ps.: sorry for the long post.

[Paddington]

Version 1.8 (http://sourceforge.net/projects/subtitlecreator/) has just been released! It includes a major change of the GUI (thanks to CoNS' input :D) and it integrates the new manipulation tools to change the colors and position of existing SUPs.
http://img269.echo.cx/img269/1679/previewwindow9bc.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

Additionally, I have updated my documentation, as well as the homepage (http://subtitlecreator.sourceforge.net/), so check it out please.

@sharkybacsi: Did you already try to change the Regional settings (in the Control Panel) of windows?

Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting (http://www.imageshack.us)

[CoNS]

Ay Caramba!! Everybody, try out this new version by Paddington, it rocks :)

Paddington has been very doubtful about whether he should implement the new GUI or keep the old one, so please state your oppinion in a post here... :)

[hej456]

As i stated before, I just love the new manipulate option, thanks for all your hard work Paddington.

[Paulcat]

Paddington: This new version blows away the previous ones, please stay with this new GUI.

A couple of things though...is there a way to get the window to open at 1,1? I.E. with the top left corner of your window in the top left corner of the screen? (somewhere in the INI file perhaps?)

Also, when loading a background image, you have the option to change the image to suit the aspect ratio of the video you are working with. Can you put this option under a command in the title bar as well, so that we can change it without re-loading the background image?

Apart from those middling things, everything else seems to work just fine!

Oh yeah, I did notice that with more than two lines of text selected for the subtitles, sometimes the auto-wrap would reduce the font size instead of expanding the text to fit three lines. I cannot recall if this has been mentioned and corrected or not. If it has, please ignore me!

[Paddington]

Version 1.8.3 (http://sourceforge.net/projects/subtitlecreator/) has just been released. Nothing major, and mainly fixes some GUI problems that CoNS mentioned.

I've also included a Windows installer [.msi] release, which unpacks everything and creates some menus and links (to documentation, website, etc.). As I don't mess with the registry, it should uninstall cleanly. Here is an overview of the new features:

Fixed some small GUI layout problems.
Made the Manipulate SUP dialog appear more like a dialog (removed the menu, added some buttons)
Added PAL/NTSC settings to this form (right click on background)
Added links to the documentation in the Help menu.
Changed some problems with small screens (<=1024x768: which will be centered now)
@Paulcat: added your request for a menu where you can change the background settings (last item in Settings menu).
Version 1.8.3 Added a context menu, so you can insert/delete/split subtitles
Include a check on loading that the subtitles don't overlap.
Improved the GUI when switching between PAL/NTSC

[Paulcat]

Paddington, thanks for the program, and for adding the background format change to the menu. I know I was just being lazy, but there are a lot of us around!

Excellant job by the way. I couldn't program to save my life, at least not without some refresher courses (6502 assembly language anyone?), It's nice to see this contribution, I've learned a ton about subtitling in the past few months..

Paul

[Paulcat]

I see you have 1.8.4 online already!

One thing I noticed, if the background setting is NTSC, and I change the background image from 1:1 to 4:3, the image gets larger whereas if I do the same thing in PAL, the image gets smaller. I'm assuming it's supposed to get smaller...

Also, I have many files that have an AR of 2.21:1, is there a chance you can add an option for a "custom" AR?

I like how you shift the lower items up when moving to NTSC, nice touch!

Paul

[ukendt]

Paddington, I've been testing last version and it appears every 6th og so sub
(lines) is shaky (only tested with NTSC).
Is this a prob and has anyone else having it?

[Paddington]

@ukendt: Haven't heard of this one before? Are you sure it isn't due to the authoring?

@Paulcat: Let me have a think of having the custom option - adding 2.21:1 is no problem, however.

[ukendt]

Muxman to remux video and only 1 audio and only one sub (custom), created
with ur tool. Dvd lab will create a problem free dvd but it takes more time.
I'll try some other prog tomorrow but if I make the sup file with Srt2sub
and remux with Muxman then there is not prob.
In other words the prob seems to be the sup created by ur proggy.

[CoNS]

@ukendt: Hmmm, kinda sounds similar to that old problem with shaking subs created in srt2sup...?! Only, I haven't seen this in SC before.

After creating the SUP file in SC, try to load the file in SC again (via the Manipulate SUP file tool, in the Tools menu) and see how they look...

Also, could you rar or zip both your .srt and .sup file and upload them somewhere, for Paddington to analyze/reproduce the problem? Which settings are you using in SC when creating them?

[ukendt]

http://www.cotse.net/users/ukendt/Paddington/

U'll find the 3 files:
1) orig srt
2) Srt2sup
3) SC

About SC: I use unicode and I place the subs near the buttom.
I can't reproduce the prob if I use manipulate. Prob exists only after I mux with Muxman and only with the SC created file. I'll make more tests tomorrow evening(short of time now) and I'll write about them

[CoNS]

I've had a look at the bitmap subs created with SC that you uploaded. As you say yourself, they all look fine when analyzed as a separate stream (SUP file).

I haven't had the time to mux them with a NTSC video stream to check, might do that later.

Anyway, for testing purposes, could you try and author/mux all your streams together using IfoEdit (latest version 0.971 which doesn't have NTSC authoring issues like the previous version) and also ReJig - instead of using MuxMan - just to see if the problem somehow is related to MuxMan and not SC... I suspect it's an authoring bug, even though the srt2sup subs don't cause problems for you, but let's see...

If it is an authoring issue, you should of course involve MPUcoder by posting in the MuxMan thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=93553).

EDIT: Just to make sure I understand you right: When you say that DVD lab "will create a problem free dvd", do you mean by using the specific SUP file created by SC (didn't know DVD lab could use SUP files?), or by using the text srt file to create its own bitmap subs?

[ukendt]

Cons...
U should know DVDLab use txt files only :D
and as I wrote I'll do some more testing tomorrow....all my family is here and I must attend to them otherwise they will say I'm a IT freak :rolleyes:

[Paddington]

@ukendt: Thanks for uploading the files - I've just downloaded them, and had a first look. As I think I've found a possible bug in SC, let me have a play first before you or anyone else looses anymore time. If you could just tell me which subtitles were shaking (just give me a couple in the beginning!). Thanks!

[ukendt]

Hi Paddington, the "Sc" subs were shaky but not all the time...maybe every 5th line (it makes me think the feature "sinchronize every 5th line" is to blame although I had no need of sinchronizing).
I muxed again using ifoedit and the results are the same but ! then I played with manipulating tools and changed random settings of sup file, remuxed again and the shaky lines disappeared.
I'll wait for the solution You are writin' about...and I'll test again, but for the moment if some1 has this prob I recommend manipulating the subs, changing settings random and going back to original, save the sup and remux.
And 1 other thing: subs from Srt2sup are fine if used alone (no matter which mux prog) but they appaear "weared" with buttom errors, if manipulated and mux together with the other 2 (1 being work of DvdLAb Pro)

[CoNS]

Hi Paddington, the "Sc" subs were shaky but not all the time...maybe every 5th line (it makes me think the feature "sinchronize every 5th line" is to blame although I had no need of sinchronizing).I've just tested some subs from SC v1.8.4 on a NTSC DVD and they looked fine. I created four different sub stream with SC (various font settings) and none of them were shaky in any way. I didn't manipulate them before muxing (with MuxMan)... I'll do a test later today with your subtitles for The Jacket and see if I can reproduce the problem on that one.

EDIT: Did you see the shakiness while playing the movie on both your PC and standalone, or just one of them?

I muxed again using ifoedit and the results are the same but ! then I played with manipulating tools and changed random settings of sup file, remuxed again and the shaky lines disappeared.Sounds weird!

And 1 other thing: subs from Srt2sup are fine if used alone (no matter which mux prog) but they appaear "weared" with buttom errors, if manipulated and mux together with the other 2 (1 being work of DvdLAb Pro)Hell, that's even more weird!! :p

[ukendt]

EDIT: Did you see the shakiness while playing the movie on both your PC and standalone, or just one of them?

On all of my TVs (21" mono-no name, 29" Stereo Panasonic, 30" Philips LCD).
Nothing wrong on PC . I even burned with 3 different kinds of media, same result( Datawrite gray, RitekG05, CMC MAG A01) and I have no probs with those media otherwise. I even switched stand alone on Panasonic TV using Euroline (2 different kinds), Philips (520) and Blutinum (Aldi).
All those things direct to some kind of error in SC.
Later on this evening I'll try another dvd (also NTSC) I did recieve yesterday by mail. I'll rip the english subs and convert them with SC and mux again, but this takes some time because I don't want to waste dvds and I'm using rewritable from now on.
And YES Paddington, I read what U wrote, nevertheless I feel like making more tests anyway as long as I use rewritable media

[mpucoder]

Are you possibly talking about the flicker caused by an odd number of high contrast lines? This is only seen on interlaced displays, like televisions.

[CoNS]

@mpucoder: Is that why the subs created with srt2sup are often flickering, too? I've had this problem many times with certain combinations of font faces and font sizes in srt2sup. It's been a while since I've used srt2sup, but as far as I remember I also flickered when viewing on PC...? So it's probably not the same bug?

@ukendt: Ok, that's why nothing was wrong when I tested a DVD on my PC with your subs on! I'll burn it to a DVDRW and test on my standalone Sony.

[ukendt]

Are you possibly talking about the flicker caused by an odd number of high contrast lines? This is only seen on interlaced displays, like televisions.

No. this is not the issue. Never had probs like this before, using SC for the first time(couldn't make earlier versions to work).
All other progs I use and used in the past (specially my favorite, Maestro) never showed this kind of behaviour on TV. And we are talking about "random" flickering, i.e. every 5 line ( I saw the old movie again)

[CoNS]

ukendt, I've now burned a DVD (NTSC) with your subtitles. I watched 10 minutes of the movie, and there're no shaking subtitles at all, when I play it...

I burned the movie only, i.e. muxed the video and audio stream together with the two SUP files you provided (using MuxMan v0.14f). In Muxman, I made sure that PS, LB and Wide were all selected for both subtitle streams. Other than that I didn't change anything. Before that, I had used PgcDemux latest version for demuxing the streams...

On my new DVD, the srt2sup SUP file was the first subtitle stream, and the SC SUP file was the second one... I didn't keep any of the original subtitles.

After muxing, I tested it in MPC, burned it to a DVDRW using Nero and tested in my standalone Sony DVD player and Sony 32" 16:9 TV. Both my TV and standalone players are PAL by default, but they can play/display NTSC material aswell.

Which subtitle lines exactly (numbers) are messed up in your copy?

[Paddington]

Hold your horses: I actually think it has to do with Ukendt's DVD player, rather than anything else. The DVD standard is not so 'standard', and there are different ways to do the same thing. In principle, it works as follows: the subtitles are stored as run-length encoded interleaved bitmaps. 00 (2 zero bytes) represents end of line, and indicates that the rest of the line should be filled with the color index 0. However, some DVD players (nor srt2sup, for that matter), don't seem to understand that, and expect you to write a whole line of data first. The shakiness might result from your DVD player sometimes misinterpreting an end of line sequence. As a result the interleaved bitmaps are swapped (e.g. 1,0,3,2,5,4...). I will do some final tests, and post the new release asap (fortunately, today is the Queen's birthday, so I have a day off to fix it.)

--- Update

I've just uploaded Version 1.8.5 (http://sourceforge.net/projects/subtitlecreator/), which hopefully solves Ukendt's problem, so hope you have time to try it. Now, when you load the sup in srt2sup, it should also display OK. I've just tried it on one of my DVD's, and it still displays fine (but then again, I didn't have any problems before).

This new release also contains some of CoNS, and some other forum users' requests.

New features:

Improved the 'too long subtitles' warning, those lines that are colored light blue (go to next using CTRL-N). Also, when you change the font, the warnings are automatically updated. You can unselect this feature in the Settings menu.
When loading a new subtitle file, I automatically cleanup the file (remove double spaces, add spaces after commas, unselect lines with @ or HTTP references, etc.) You can unselect this option in the Settings menu.
Added auto-adjust SUP position (automatically position the SUP in the currently selected subtitle text area) to the tools menu.
If you prefer to see the actual output, instead of a slightly slicker version, you can select the "Show actual output" mode in the Settings menu.
When you change the subtitle text, you immediately see the results on the screen.
Added (un-)select all subtitles to the listView's context menu.
Added remove line breaks to the listView's context menu.
Added a new (requested) aspect ratio of 2.21:1.
Added search function to the Manipulate SUP window.
Added tooltips to the Manipulate SUP window.

Bug fixes:

Shaky lines (see above) fixed, I hope
Fixed update of times in listview after shifting time or frame rate conversions
When using the "Save SUP as..." function in File menu, the file is now automatically written as well.
Fixed a bug when opening an NTSC movie, so it displays the correct background and repositions the GUI.
Fixed a bug when loading a background (4:3 in NTSC mode)
Renamed "Insert shortcut" to "Insert autotext", which allows you to easily insert Music or copyright symbols

[Paulcat]

Paddington: Thanks for the 2.21:1 AR, that will help me a lot. I have yet to see some of the other AR's that you allow for (although I have seen 2.5:1, which is useless since I have to crop it for TMPGEnc and I end up with 2.21:1 anyway)

Paulcat

p.s. I assume Australia is PAL as well as the UK?

[CoNS]

Yep, the aussies have PAL by default...

[Alex-2k1]

Vertical alignment don't work in 1.8.5 version? In 1.5.4 version work perfecly midle alignment.

[Paddington]

Vertical alignment don't work in 1.8.5 version? In 1.5.4 version work perfecly midle alignment.
You are right, so thanks for that - I've already fixed it and will upload version 1.8.6 this weekend.

[bloodem]

hello guys... i have a problem, i wonder if you can help me. I added a subtitle to a DVD but can`t load it. I mean, it doesn`t appear in the subtitle menu (in windvd, when i right click the image it should be a subtitle menu but that menu appears empty) What should I do ? I guess I must modify something in the VTS_01_0.IFO or something...
Thanks ;)

[ukendt]

We need a step by step in order to help, with progs versions and so on.
Please specify

[bloodem]

well, I bought the DVD (Star Wars Episode 4 remastered 2004) and of course wanted to add subtitles so I did what I always do. I used VobEdit v0.6 to demux the streams, then I used SubtitleCreator (which btw, is great! congrats!) to create the sup file and then Ifoedit0971 to reauthor the dvd, remuxing the streams. Then I took the original (well, "original" as in the original IFO files) and used them for the remuxed DVD. This is something I did hundreads of times before and it worked perfectly. Until today that is.... Like I said, when I right-click the image in WinDVD there is a Subtitle Menu. In this menu there should be two options: 1. Subtitle: None, 2. Subtitle: English, French, Spanish or whatever. Well, this menu is empty. There is no option. So what I did, was overwrite the VTS_01_0.IFO with one from another DVD (which has this menu) and it works, the subtitle menu appears corectly. The only thing is that the DVD's menu gets mixed up (because of different cell ids). So, what could I possibly do to correct this problem? I mean, have my original VTS_01_0 display the subtitle menu...

[CoNS]

I used VobEdit v0.6 to demux the streams, then I used SubtitleCreator (which btw, is great! congrats!) to create the sup file and then Ifoedit0971 to reauthor the dvd, remuxing the streams. Then I took the original (well, "original" as in the original IFO files) and used them for the remuxed DVD.Your problem is most likely not related to SubtitleCreator. My guess is that it's caused by that ugly hack you describe (copying the original ifo files over the new ones manually)...

Even though this method may had worked for you before, it's NOT the way to do it. The .ifo files contain precise information of the content of the corresponding .vob files, and this information is not identical when authoring a new DVD.

Please see this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=672301#post672301) on how to do it (step 5b) using VobBlanker. You can also do it correctly using IfoUpdate, see step 3 in this guide (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=83566).

Also, in general I recommend using PgcDemux for demuxing and MuxMan for muxing/authoring as VobEdit and IfoEdit are known to have certain issues in these processes.

[bloodem]

well, thanks a lot ;) Those links will help. Anyway, I actually realized what the problem was. The "Subtitle Stream Change" option was enabled in "Prohibited user operations" in the Ifo file. Anyway, another question... does anybody know how I might make a subtitle default so that when I open the movie it loads that precise subtitle automatically. (usually the default subtitle is None).

[CoNS]

Search and you shall find.... :)

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=95902

[bloodem]

thanks a lot! it worked perfectly :)

[Like the Cure]

Hi! I just wanted to say that I absolutely love SC, but I do have a small problem. I got the latest version from SourceForge, 1.8.5, and the subs it produced had that problem with small spots appearing below, apparently left over from a previous line of text. From what I gathered, this problem was already addressed and fixed, although I could be mistaken. Its not horribly bad, just a few stray pixels here and there (probably wont even show up on a television), but just because it doesnt bother me doesnt mean it doesnt bother anyone else.

[CoNS]

You're right, it has been a problem in some earlier versions, too, where it was later fixed by Paddington.

For sure, it's a severe bug if it's present again. However, I can't reproduce the problem with v1.8.5... Could you be a bit more specific about how you've created the subs? PAL or NTSC? Which font settings etc. did you use? Do you get the bug with every SUP you create? Could you upload an example .sup file with the bug present (in a .rar or .zip archive to save space)?