RB-Opt v0.23 BETA a tool to change titles bitrate, CCE parameters and AVS scripts.

[robot1]

1. Could you send me the rebuilder.ini and rebuilder.inf files?
I can't reproduce the crash. PM me for details.
2. Small VodID doesn't take much space, so I prefer leave them untouched, as DVD-RB decided. To change their bitrate, you have to uncheck "hide vod-id..." as you noticed
3. 100% doesn't means "no compression". You will do a CCE pass, using the same bitrate of the original cell. If you want the original cell, it's not simple! You have to demux the original .m2v stream from the VOB. RB-Keeper did this job, but I think it's not compatible with current DVD-RB.
4. Yes, duration is wrong. As I'm in PAL land, I've a question: is it always wrong? DVD-RB reports always a 23.976 framerate, so RB-Opt is wrong in calculation. Are DVD's *ALWAYS* at 29.97, so it's safe to use always a framerate of 29.97?
The same thing happens for the external player.
DVD-RB uses the right framerate in remuxing, so the output will be always fine.
5. Linking Vob-ID is useful (and "mandatory") if you tweak single cells, but it cause no harm. It can be used to group items, and doesn't mess navigation. It affects only the bitrate distribution.

[berndy2001]

Originally posted by robot1
3. 100% doesn't means "no compression". You will do a CCE pass, using the same bitrate of the original cell. If you want the original cell, it's not simple! You have to demux the original .m2v stream from the VOB. RB-Keeper did this job, but I think it's not compatible with current DVD-RB.


in the new RB 0.70, there is a mode called "No Compression". you can use it, to demux your dvd. just copy the m2v-files of your chice to another folder.
(if you are not a vip, use the ReJig-Mode.)

after encoding copy them back.
don't forget to set the related cells in rb-opt to 100%

[robot1]

Originally posted by berndy2001
in the new RB 0.70, there is a mode called "No Compression". you can use it, to demux your dvd. just copy the m2v-files of your chice to another folder.
(if you are not a vip, use the ReJig-Mode.)

after encoding copy them back.
don't forget to set the related cells in rb-opt to 100% :goodpost:

[govenar]

Originally posted by robot1
2. Small VodID doesn't take much space, so I prefer leave them untouched, as DVD-RB decided. To change their bitrate, you have to uncheck "hide vod-id..." as you noticed
The problem is that even after I uncheck "hide vob-ids...", it won't let me change the bitrate. Autosized is checked, and greyed out so that I can't uncheck it. (And OPV is selected. I tried checking "Enable OPV for small Vob-IDs" but that didn't help; the VBR/OPV options are greyed out so I can't change them.)
3. 100% doesn't means "no compression". You will do a CCE pass, using the same bitrate of the original cell. If you want the original cell, it's not simple! You have to demux the original .m2v stream from the VOB. RB-Keeper did this job, but I think it's not compatible with current DVD-RB.
Ok.. I guess in addition to swapping the .m2v files as berndy2001 suggested, I could also just edit the final dvd image later with a re-authoring program to replace the vobs (assuming that I can get around the above problem and set reduction to 100% so they'll be the same size).

With this new RB 0.70 "No Compression" mode, could RB-Opt apply that to only certain Vob-IDs while still compressing others?
4. Yes, duration is wrong. As I'm in PAL land, I've a question: is it always wrong? DVD-RB reports always a 23.976 framerate, so RB-Opt is wrong in calculation. Are DVD's *ALWAYS* at 29.97, so it's safe to use always a framerate of 29.97?
If you always use 29.97 then that will break PAL DVDs? You could add a button to RB-Opt to let the user choose between NTSC & PAL.
Or, could RB be modified to save the original frame rate somewhere like rebuilder.ini so that RB-Opt can read it?
5. Linking Vob-ID is useful (and "mandatory") if you tweak single cells, but it cause no harm. It can be used to group items, and doesn't mess navigation. It affects only the bitrate distribution.
If I don't tweak single cells though, then linking won't affect anything? So I shouldn't bother to link them unless I tweak a single cell?

[jdobbs]

4. The Duration shown by RB-Opt is 162 minutes, but the correct time is 129 minutes. I guess this is related to 23.976/29.97 fps. (Also when I view a Preview, it's played at the wrong speed, and the external player also shows the wrong 162 minute time.) The final DVD output is fine so it's not a huge deal, just annoying. All NTSC files are set to 23.976 when encoding -- this is purposeful and is part of the solution for properly encoding hybrid (23.876/29.97) sources. DVD-RB resets the output speeds back to those in the original source during "REBUILD". It's a lot less "annoying" than an incorrectly encoded movie.

[jdobbs]

4. Yes, duration is wrong. As I'm in PAL land, I've a question: is it always wrong? DVD-RB reports always a 23.976 framerate, so RB-Opt is wrong in calculation. Are DVD's *ALWAYS* at 29.97, so it's safe to use always a framerate of 29.97? No. Because sources that are telecined only have 23.976 frames physically present in the MPEG stream for each second -- even though the the playback may be at 29.97. The additional pseudo frames are generated from those existing and inserted only to meet the NTSC standard fps. When played back through a progressive player/monitor -- the playback is at 23.976, resulting in a superior picture that matches the original film source.

[robot1]

Originally posted by govenar
Ok.. I guess in addition to swapping the .m2v files as berndy2001 suggested, I could also just edit the final dvd image later with a re-authoring program to replace the vobs (assuming that I can get around the above problem and set reduction to 100% so they'll be the same size).
You can swap the .m2v files without harm. The settings are grayed out because for short segments DVD-RB uses CBR instead of VBR, so it's not modifiable.
Size is small and you'll have no problems.


With this new RB 0.70 "No Compression" mode, could RB-Opt apply that to only certain Vob-IDs while still compressing others?

It's not possible: The prepare phase is different when you use "No compression" from the normal one.


If I don't tweak single cells though, then linking won't affect anything? So I shouldn't bother to link them unless I tweak a single cell? If you don't tweak single cells, you don't need to link.

[MAPE]

My question refers that I did some encodes tweaking the end credits bitrate and after saving the changes in Rb-opt, I opened the .Ecl in notepad and noticed that the avg bitrate for this cell was not modified. I linked all Vts in rb-opt and decreased bitrate of the last cell to 1800 avg. and when checked in notepad still was over 2800. Other parameters like CCE's filters, quality precission, bias were correctly modified and saved except the one concerning bitrates.
Tks.

[robot1]

Originally posted by MAPE
My question refers that I did some encodes tweaking the end credits bitrate and after saving the changes in Rb-opt, I opened the .Ecl in notepad and noticed that the avg bitrate for this cell was not modified. I linked all Vts in rb-opt and decreased bitrate of the last cell to 1800 avg. and when checked in notepad still was over 2800. Other parameters like CCE's filters, quality precission, bias were correctly modified and saved except the one concerning bitrates.
Tks. What if you open the Rebuilder.inf you've saved in RB-Opt again?
Do you find the modified value (1800)?
It's the fastest way to check.
I haven't tested RB-Opt with the newer versions of CCE. Probably I'll post an updated version next week (now working to ECLPro...)

[robot1]

This is an intermediate version, just with a bugfix and initial
support for CCE 2.70 (OPV mode).
I hope for the weekend to have a full CCE 2.70 support.

CHANGES:
- Added compatibility to CCE 2.70 in OPV mode
- Fixed a bug in "Reset Bitrates" options
- Added QLB matrix (used in QuEnc by Nic and Dragongodz)


KNOWN ISSUES
- Filters don't work properly with CCE 2.70. Please, avoid filters usage with this CCE version.
- Quantizer Characteristics for CCE 2.70 limited to 64 (and not to 100).

RB-Opt v0.16 (http://dvd-rb.dvd2go.org/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=23) Mirror by DVDRebuilder.com

[archaeo]

...support for CCE 2.70 (OPV mode).

and it works very well in OPV! :D
a great tool.

As I mentioned in another thread, I noticed some undersizing issues at low Q-values using Rebuilder with CCE 2.70. Using RB-Opt, the same project came in perfectly at 4.32 Gb.

[TheSeeker]

Originally posted by archaeo
and it works very well in OPV! :D
a great tool.

As I mentioned in another thread, I noticed some undersizing issues at low Q-values using Rebuilder with CCE 2.70. Using RB-Opt, the same project came in perfectly at 4.32 Gb.

I had the exact same experience with 2.70. My dvd came in at 3.59 gb using dvd rb's prediction. With rb-opt using double pass prediction it came in at 4.33!! This tool just keeps getting better and better.

[robot1]

:)

[kheops]

hi all :)

i think i'll mainly use RB-Opt to use custom matrices (the one from the original dvd)
is there a program to extract this matrice from a vob file AND create a valid matrice file for RB-Opt ?

many thanks

[robot1]

I know of just one program to check matrices:
Restream (http://shh.sysh.de/restream.html)
Anyway it needs the .m2v or .mpv file, so you have to demux a VOB to check the matrices.

The format of the eclpro matrices is simple: it's plain text starting with a tab, and then a row of the matrix.
Example:

08 16 20 23 27 30 32 34
16 16 23 24 29 31 34 38
20 23 27 28 30 35 38 40
23 24 28 29 35 39 40 44
27 29 30 35 39 42 45 50
30 31 35 39 42 46 54 59
32 34 38 40 45 54 62 72
34 38 40 44 50 59 72 84
17 19 21 23 25 27 29 31
19 21 23 25 27 28 29 33
21 23 25 27 29 30 32 37
23 25 27 30 31 34 40 45
25 27 29 31 38 46 54 60
27 28 30 34 46 58 72 74
29 29 32 40 54 72 90 100
31 33 37 45 60 74 100 124

The first 8 lines are the one of the intra matrix.
The second 8 lines are the non intra matrix.

[kheops]

thanks robot1 for your answer :)

i might give you this link :

http://www.dvdcreation.net/download.php?id=4776

Matrix Extractor v1.10 is really great and allow extracting the matrices from a vob file and export them in the registry or in plain text

before encoding i've used this setting in my rebuilder.ecl file

qmat=
08 08 09 11 13 13 14 17
08 08 11 12 13 14 17 18
09 11 13 13 14 17 17 16
11 11 13 13 13 17 18 20
11 13 13 13 16 17 20 24
13 13 13 16 17 20 24 29
13 12 13 17 19 23 28 34
12 13 17 19 23 28 34 41
08 08 08 09 09 09 09 10
08 08 09 09 09 09 10 10
08 09 09 09 09 10 10 10
09 09 09 09 10 10 10 10
09 09 09 10 10 10 10 11
09 09 10 10 10 10 11 11
09 10 10 10 10 11 11 11
10 10 10 10 11 11 11 11

in the vob files created, the matrices are

8 8 8 8 8 8 8 9
8 8 8 8 8 8 9 9
8 8 8 8 8 9 9 8
8 8 8 8 8 9 9 10
8 8 8 8 8 9 10 12
8 8 8 8 9 10 12 15
8 8 8 9 10 12 14 17
8 8 9 10 12 14 17 21


8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8
8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8
8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8
8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8
8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8
8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8
8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8
8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8

i'll try to investigate, if you could give me a hint :)

edit : i've used cce to encode

[robot1]

CCE version used?
If you load the .ecl with CCE, can you check if the matrix is correct?
Can you try encoding with RB-Opt and selecting one of the enclosed matrices, if the result is correct?

[kheops]

cce is 2.70.01.05
the ecl loads fine in cce and the matrices setting is correct (the "preset" choice is empty)

i'm doing encoding right now, will give the results

[robot1]

CCE 2.70 has an "Adaptive Q Matrix switching".
I don't know if it can change the matrix automatically... anyway, I'll add an option to disable this behaviour.

[RitchieMad]

An EXCELLENT and friendly tool...
I couldn't get right output size on my In Extremo DVD, but once I used RB and set higher bitrate I hit 4.6Gb size. I was lucky, but that's also a proof this tool works!

[kheops]

2nd encoding, same result

each item in my ecl file IS correct, the matrix is the one i want to use
once created, each m2v file is NOT correct, i already gave my example above (afterwards the vob file has the same matrix but isn't a surprise)

your idea was right, i checked the "Disable adaptive Q-matrix switching" box just for one item and get a correct m2v file :)

in my ecl file, for this item, "q_scale_type=1" is replaced by "q_scale_type=0" so i think the solution isn't too hard to implement, one has just to decide if he want to use this feature or not

what the pdf says about this setting :

Disable adaptive Q-matrix switching

Cinema Craft Encoder SP (later than 2.67) adjusts quantization matrix
automatically to improve the quality of image when Multipass
VBR is selected. However, some DVD player does not support such
MPEG streams as encoded with adaptive quantization matrix, and
may cause the block noise when playback. When you encounter the
problem, you can avoid it with this option.

What is adaptive Q-matrix switching ?

There are some cases that Cinema Craft Encoder SP cannot keep
the minimum bitrate. It is considered to be caused by that the lowest
quantization scale cannot raise the bitrate under a single quantization
matrix. To solve the problem, Cinema Craft Encoder SP automatically
creates other matrices cutting the value of each element in the
matrices by half, quarter and so on, and applies another one to produce
a much lower distortion for much higher bitrate. This switching
of quantization matrix can occur at every GOP.
Thus, adaptive Q-matrix switching can improve the quality of image,
especially with lower bitrate sources or CG works or the edge of
fading out.

thanks for your support :)

[SlipGun]

I'd like to echo Xuvio's post from August 2004. RB-Opt would be perfect if it had the ability to modify bitrate by frames and not just cells. I would think the best way to do this would be to have an in-program player to preview a cell, much like in Vobblanker, where you can select start- and end-points.

I don't know how much effort this would require in the way of programming, but it would be a great option to have, whenever it may be possible - if it is at all.

[jptheripper]

wow frame by frame bitrate editing? i cant ever see doing that.

for me the one thing rb-opt needs is the ability to remove a vts for reencoding (ah lal the now defunct rb-keeper). That would be ideal

[jdobbs]

Remove a VTS for reencoding? Explain.

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by SlipGun
I'd like to echo Xuvio's post from August 2004. RB-Opt would be perfect if it had the ability to modify bitrate by frames and not just cells. I would think the best way to do this would be to have an in-program player to preview a cell, much like in Vobblanker, where you can select start- and end-points.

I don't know how much effort this would require in the way of programming, but it would be a great option to have, whenever it may be possible - if it is at all. Bitrate allocation by frame... that's what the encoder does during VBR -- you really don't want to mess with that...

[robot1]

Originally posted by SlipGun
I'd like to echo Xuvio's post from August 2004. RB-Opt would be perfect if it had the ability to modify bitrate by frames and not just cells. I would think the best way to do this would be to have an in-program player to preview a cell, much like in Vobblanker, where you can select start- and end-points.

I don't know how much effort this would require in the way of programming, but it would be a great option to have, whenever it may be possible - if it is at all. The smallest encoding unit in DVD-RB is the segment (usually a cell), so I can't change parameters for smaller units (the risk to screw things up is really high).
Anyawy, the bitrate gain would be relly negligible.

[robot1]

Originally posted by jptheripper
for me the one thing rb-opt needs is the ability to remove a vts for reencoding (ah lal the now defunct rb-keeper). That would be ideal I'd like to have an option "no compression" ... I hope in an interaction with pgcdemux, one day.

[archaeo]

robot1,
I usually do tweaks after the RB prepare phase using RBOpt, but hardly ever do any adjustment after the encoding phase. For long projects I run the encoding phase right before I go to bed and then click the Rebuild phase to complete the process before I go to work. I do not have much time to look at the final product until I get home from work. It would be great to have a 2 click option, Prepare + Encoding/Rebuild combined, with shutdown on completion. Can this be setup as a feature in RB-Opt?

[robot1]

Originally posted by archaeo
robot1,
It would be great to have a 2 click option, Prepare + Encoding/Rebuild combined, with shutdown on completion. Can this be setup as a feature in RB-Opt? I don't think of 2 click option as a feature of RB-Opt... I'd prefer as a feature in DVD-RB.
I think jdobbs will add it... in the meantime I could code a little app to automates the Encoding/Rebuild/(optional)Shutdown - but I'm working to release RB-Opt 0.17 with CCE 2.70 support.

[blueboyec]

archaeo,

Alot of people do it that way, me included. Many have asked that RB have this option but to no avail.:( It would be great if jobbs would gave RB this option! But if RB-Opt could do it that would be great too.

Blueboy

[jdobbs]

I hear you... I've just been concentrating on clearing up bugs and inconsistencies lately, so features have taken a back seat. I'm trying to get to v1.0 before the next turn of the century.

[jptheripper]

Originally posted by robot1
I'd like to have an option "no compression" ... I hope in an interaction with pgcdemux, one day.

yeah sorry for my incoherency. I would love to, say, be able to set a vts at 100% (original size) and have it completely not encoded.

This would be ideal for situations when renecoding xtras and removing languages (but leaving the main movie intact) is sufficient to get to dvd5 size.

[Whitespliff]

Originally posted by jptheripper
I would love to say, be able to set a vts at 100% (original size) and have it completely not encoded.Yeah, that would come in handy.

The 2 click feature would be great too :D

[robot1]

New version:
RB-Opt v0.17 (http://www.freewebs.com/robot1/RB-Optv0.17.zip) (right click -> save target as).
Later there will be other mirrors...

Changelog:
Full CCE 2.70 support:
- added switches: "Disable Adaptive Q matrix switching" and "Fades on a static scene"
- added support to CCE 2.70 filters.

ProCoder (EclPRO) is detected and only relevant options are showed.

Added "Block Scan Order" & "Progressive" options in CCE Options
NOTICE:
Don't change these setting unless you know what you are doing... else you will have a bad output.
These settings can be used for PAL films (progressive), encoded as interlaced - you can force DVD-RB to
encode them as progressive (likewise the "Disable interlaced" in the "AVS Options" in DVD-RB).
NTSC users should NEVER change the default values.

[berndy2001]

hello, im not able to download the file. i always get redirected back to the thread. (the browser download the html-code of the forum)

if you want, i can provide a mirror.

[pg55555]

berndy2001

Do not Left click on the link. RIGHT click and select "Save target as.." as indicated by Robot1

[berndy2001]

i did that, i get a file, which contains the html-code of this thread.
im using firefox.

robot1 will mail it to me.

[robot1]

Mirror
DVD-RB v0.17 (http://dvd-rb.sun.priv.at/RB-Optv0.17.zip)

This should work with every browser.
Thanks to berndy2001

[archaeo]

robot1,
I've been looking forward to this one! Thanks for all the hard work ;)

[Rockas]

@Robot1

When using a custom matrix (made for CCE) on RB-Opt it doesn't accept the first value if it is a "16", can you explain me why?

[robot1]

I think the first value should be 8 (Edit: for intra matrix)
Am I wrong?

[Rockas]

Well I don't know anything about that but I'm using a custom matrix from a Brazilian forum and the first value is a "16"... CCE accepts it RB-Opt doesn't.

[robot1]

I've checked.
From CCE SP 2.70 manual:
(1, 1) element in intra block must be 8 under MPEG standard.
I think the first element should be 8

[Rockas]

That's explains it... thanks

edit: what would be the problems if the value 16 is used?

[robot1]

If it's not in MPEG standard, I think some players could give problems.

[Rockas]

OK.. thanx I'll keep that in mind.

[archaeo]

robot1,
In v17, which command line enables 'fades on a static scene' in the ecl script? What should it read when I've enabled it?

thanks

[raddygast]

Ok, this could be a retarded question, but...

How do you install RB-Opt? Do I just make a directory for it? That would seem to be the case but there is a .zip within the archive called RB Opt Matrices or something. Do I have to extract that into the RB Opt directory too, or can RB-Opt somehow read the zip?

[TheSeeker]

Yea just make a directory for it and unzip the matrices directory inside that one. you dont NEED to do this for rb opt to work, but you must unzip them to be able to load those matrices into rb-opt and use them with CCE.

[robot1]

Originally posted by archaeo
robot1,
In v17, which command line enables 'fades on a static scene' in the ecl script? What should it read when I've enabled it?

thanks Sorry for the late reply... I didn't read before your post.
Anyway, you've found a bug: the setting simply isn't saved
:(
It will be fixed for next release.

You should find a line
no_move=
with 0 (default) or 1 (enables fades on a static scene)

I don't think is useful in RB-Opt (or in general with CCE) to enable it.
If you use CCE for a single encoding (not in DVD-RB) you should enable it just for the section where you can see the fades on the static scene.