RB-Opt v0.23 BETA a tool to change titles bitrate, CCE parameters and AVS scripts.

[tom942]

I'm waiting a credit card that I request for send money to jdobbs among other users of the forum :). It will be my first purchase through paypal :).

Meanwhile, I just asked if it could be possible to implement it in RB-OPT :).

Regards,

Tom

[jdobbs]

If people started adding Pro capabilities to the freeware version there wouldn't be a lot of incentive for me to keep developing DVD-RB, would there?

[tom942]

@jdobbs

Don´t get me wrong. I'm agree with you, but I thought it couldn´t interfere with Pro version in the same way that already there is an option for CCE settings, so why not other for HC.

Please, I didn´t wanted to bother you. Sorry :(

[robot1]

DVD-RB free version doesn't use the .ecl to pass parameters to HC. It's not possible to tweak HC settings with the free version.
I suggest you to upgrade to pro, it's a great step ahead.

[tom942]

Thanks for the clarification :)

[manolito]

AFAIK the free version 0.98.2 of DVD-RB supports HC with custom matrices quite nicely. You just have to specify the desired matrix in the HC.ini file. The line in HC.ini could look like this:
*MATRIX AVAMAT7

DVD-RB free does not try to manipulate the HC.ini at all because it thinks it is dealing with QuEnc.

Cheers
manolito

[tom942]

@Manolito

It is what I'm doing, but I just wanted to try the new method of Bitrate Distribution with RB-OPT.

But instead of using the matrix, the DC or the bias that I've got set under HC.ini (AVAMAT6) in DVD-RB, RB-OPT uses MPEG matrix and its own DC. I mean it overrides my HC.ini, and this was the thing I asking for, nothing else.

And like RB-OPT allow to modify all these things for CCE, I just asked for something similar for HC (like a menu). The only thing that I would like is can use the settings from my HC.ini in the prediction of RB-OPT. :)

PS: Excuse my english. It is not my mother tongue. I hope to express well.

[Sharc]

@robot1:
RB-Opt includes a very handy AVS editor. It is applicable on a per VOB-ID basis.
Would it be possible - in a future version - to allow the AVS editing on a per cell basis as well, for example in the "tweak cells" window? This would be very handy for filtering individual scenes differently or selectively.

[dirio49]

@robot1
Thanks for the new version.
One suggestion.
In the redistribution, it would be nice if we had a choice to exclude some cells for the redistribution.
Like credits, that i like to just kill. with the lowest bitrate .
thanks

[Sharc]

I had again a case:
After redistribution and pressing OK, the new cell bitrates were not transferred to the ecl.
Not sure however if I pressed the button sequence OK => EXIT, ie skipping Save Settings.
Should I - after redistribution - always press OK => Save Settings => (Settings Saved) OK => Exit?

[Boulder]

I always do the save settings part, it probably is needed to save the new bitrates.

[Sharc]

@robot1:
When I blank the first cell of a VOB-ID by means of the DVD RB editor, the subsequent Q estimation or OPV prediction of RB-Opt fails to deliver correct results.

Trying to run the AVS editor in RB-Opt delivers the (correct) error message of unequal lengths of the avs script files -- due to the previous blanking of cells with the DVD Rebuilder editor.

When I unblank the first cell everything works correctly.

[robot1]

@robot1:
RB-Opt includes a very handy AVS editor. It is applicable on a per VOB-ID basis.
Would it be possible - in a future version - to allow the AVS editing on a per cell basis as well, for example in the "tweak cells" window? This would be very handy for filtering individual scenes differently or selectively.
Sorry for the late reply, I was away.
Yes, it will be possible, and I will add this feature.

[robot1]

@robot1
Thanks for the new version.
One suggestion.
In the redistribution, it would be nice if we had a choice to exclude some cells for the redistribution.
Like credits, that i like to just kill. with the lowest bitrate .
thanks
You should have the redistribution step, than tweak the end credits cell to the lowest possible value. The saved bitrate will be given to the other cells.

[robot1]

Should I - after redistribution - always press OK => Save Settings => (Settings Saved) OK => Exit?
Yes, you have always to save the settings to make changes permanent.

[robot1]

@robot1:
When I blank the first cell of a VOB-ID by means of the DVD RB editor, the subsequent Q estimation or OPV prediction of RB-Opt fails to deliver correct results.

Trying to run the AVS editor in RB-Opt delivers the (correct) error message of unequal lengths of the avs script files -- due to the previous blanking of cells with the DVD Rebuilder editor.

When I unblank the first cell everything works correctly.
I have to fix this. It's easy if you blank the first or the last cell, and I think that next version will have this fix. It's more troublesome when you blank a cell in the middle (but it's a very rare case).

[Sharc]

:thanks: for considering my proposals in a future release.

[Sharc]

Yes, it will be possible, and I will add this feature.
Thanks for taking this into consideration.
I imagine that it may become difficult for the OPV prediction when individual cells have different filter scrips. I would assume however that only very few cells (1 or 2) in a VOB-ID will need an individual filter script, hence the OPV prediction reliability should not be unduly affected.

[~bT~]

Feature Request:

Option to select starting Q factor.

[Dashiell]

Hey guys,

This may be a dumb question, I'm not an RB noob but I am an RB-OPT noob.

I see that you can select the CCE filters and select the "Natural Filter" without a problem, but does it actually stick? I've heard tale that it cannot be activated/used with CCE Basic. I own Basic 2.70.1.15.

Thanks!

[Sharc]

@robot1:
When Rebuilder assigns different -- ie bitrate dependent -- matrices to the cells within a VOB-ID, RB-Opt will ask for a manual re-assignment of a specific matrix for redistribution. Means in the subsequent encode the bitrate dependent matrix selection will be lost.
Don't know if this could be fixed in a future release.

[robot1]

Hey guys,

This may be a dumb question, I'm not an RB noob but I am an RB-OPT noob.

I see that you can select the CCE filters and select the "Natural Filter" without a problem, but does it actually stick? I've heard tale that it cannot be activated/used with CCE Basic. I own Basic 2.70.1.15.

Thanks!
I think CCE basic hasn't filtering capability.

[robot1]

@robot1:
When Rebuilder assigns different -- ie bitrate dependent -- matrices to the cells within a VOB-ID, RB-Opt will ask for a manual re-assignment of a specific matrix for redistribution. Means in the subsequent encode the bitrate dependent matrix selection will be lost.
Don't know if this could be fixed in a future release.

OPV prediction couldn't be exact if there are different matrices in the segments.
Anyway, I could disable this check only if you calculate Q factor in the redistribution step, as optimal Q isn't fundamental.

[Sharc]

Yes, for OPV this is definitely a problem. and one should stick to one single matrix.
For redistribution, disabling this check would be useful because redistribution normally even increases the swing of the average bitrates, hence preserving (or even automaticallly re-assigning ?) the bitrate dependent matrix selection would be beneficial to the final result, IMHO.
Thank you for considering this possibility.

[Dashiell]

I think CCE basic hasn't filtering capability.

Yes, this is true.

I am told, however, that the four "basic" filters contained within CCE are present in every version.

Natural, Animation, etc, etc...

[Video Dude]

CCE Basic has 3 filter presets: Natural Picture, Computer Graphics, and Animation.

But you can't customize or tweak the filter options. You are limited to the 3 presets only.

[Snarko]

This bitrate redistribution and automatic Q finding stuff is great!

I'm using HCEnc 0.21, and generally not using the MPEG default matrix. Is there any way RB-Opt could use the matrices specified in DVD-RB Pro to calculate the Q and redistribution passes, instead of always using the MPEG matrix? Or is it about as close as matters already, even if a matrix like AVAMAT6 compresses more than the MPEG matrix? Thanks.

[gurkan]

CCE throws me a "OPV VBV ovf frame# 124812 (01:23:12:14) I 81616 max 81327,95 rel 288,05,1,00 qsv 4,90->5,41".
This happens in the opv prediction (sample 100%) before Bitrate Redistribution, during second pass when it tries to go for Q=1.
Max Bitrate in RB-Opt settings says 8014.
Any tips on how I can avoid this kind of error?

[Boulder]

Set the Q value manually to something higher than Q1.

[gurkan]

If it's setting the q-value of the redistribution to an arbitrary guess that you mean, than sure I could do that.
But I would've really liked RB-Opt to calculate the optimal Q for me instead since I don't really trust my guesses.
Sorry if I've misunderstood you.

[Boulder]

Well, I don't think it really is crucial to predict the Q value for redistribution. In fact, I never do that myself when I use HC. The ratio between different segments should remain pretty much the same, although that should be tested to be sure.

[Sharc]

I did various tests regarding the impact of the Q-factor on redistribution with CCE.
It appears that there exists an asymptotic behaviour:

a) For very low Q factors (Q=1,2,3) the redistribution follows more or less the standard multipass VBR distribution of DVDRB
b) With increasing Q facor the redistribution deviates more and more from the standard multipass VBR curve, generally increasing the swing
c) With further increasing Q, the redistribution converges to an asymptotic redistribution which does not change much when Q is further increased.

Q-factors that correspond to the DVD-5 target size are normally in the asymptotic range of c).

In the graph below, Q=18 would approximate the DVD-5 target size. There is little change when increasing Q to 64 for setting up the redistribution profile.

The tests I did apply to CCE.

[Sharc]

And here another example showing the influence of Q on the redistribution, for Q=1, 12, 64.
Q=12 applies for a DVD-5 target size and produces the same profile which one would get for standard OPV.

[Sharc]

The Q factor for a given target size depend heavily on the selected matrix -- for example Q=9 for Avamat6, Q=18 for CCE Default, Q=58 for FHE for the same title.

After having done more tests with the selection of Q for redistribution, my recommendation is to do the redistribution with a Q factor which approximates the target size for the selected matrix or to let RB-Opt do the choice -- a small sample size of 0.5% to 1% is sufficient. With a Q corresponding to the target size, the redistribution even becomes fairly independent of the selected matrix.
All my test are with CCE.

When a low Q is selected with a high bitrate matrix like FHE, I noticed that CCE may be aborted, skipping the rest of the cell -- possibly because the bitrate becomes excessive (?).

[Boulder]

I actually thought that the redistibution is always done using the MPEG standard matrix. That's what is used with HC at least, no matter what you have chosen to use in DVD-RB.

[Sharc]

You can select any matrix for redistribution with CCE and RB-Opt, using the "CCE settings" button in RB-Opt.

I have no experience with HC and OPV for redistribution though. Unfortunately, for some odd reason, I cannot run HC in OPV mode on my system. It does not produce an OPV test file.

[Sharc]

Here a plot for differnet matrices.

Q always corresponding to a DVD-5 target size for the given matrix. The redistribution then appears to be fairly independent of the matrix.

[Boulder]

Do you have XviD or DivX5 or higher installed? HC needs an YV12 decoder to work.

[Sharc]

Yes, I have DivX5 and ffdshow (XviD) installed.
HC runs perfectly in multipass mode, it only fails when I want to use it for OPV or redistribution when generating the testfile for Q estimation. Seems to be something wrong with the avisynth script. I double checked it, but I did not find anything unusual.

[Boulder]

Could you post the script that is used for the prediction and also the ini file? You should also be able to see an error message in the HC GUI window if there is something wrong.

[Sharc]

Thank you for your help.

In order not to deviate from the main subject of this thread I suggest to continue this discussion in my former thread:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=122803.

Thanks again.

[Insomniak4700]

ATM, the bitrate redistribution has to be run one VTS at a time... Would it be possible to have an option to run it on multiple VOB IDs at the same time? This could be usefull for episodic discs

[~bT~]

ATM, the bitrate redistribution has to be run one VTS at a time... Would it be possible to have an option to run it on multiple VOB IDs at the same time? This could be usefull for episodic discs
I was going to post this request too. Not only episodic DVD's but some movies have multiple VTS' too. :)

[Sharc]

@robot1:
Bitrate prediction for OPV and Redistribution:

Based on the % value for the sample size, the sample size may become too small for a reliable bitrate allocation for small cells.
I would therefore suggest to base the sample size on a function like:
SampleSize=Max(percentage;number of frames)

with
percentage = the percentage as selected in RB-Opt
number of frames=500.

Means at least 500 frames (or the entire cell if it should be smaller than 500 frames) will be included in the sample. This should be adequate for a reliable bitrate estimation.

This issue has been recently addressed by jdobbs:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1012292#post1012292

[robot1]

ATM, the bitrate redistribution has to be run one VTS at a time... Would it be possible to have an option to run it on multiple VOB IDs at the same time? This could be usefull for episodic discs
This is in my Todo-List.

[robot1]

@robot1:
Bitrate prediction for OPV and Redistribution:

Based on the % value for the sample size, the sample size may become too small for a reliable bitrate allocation for small cells.
I would therefore suggest to base the sample size on a function like:
SampleSize=Max(percentage;number of frames)

with
percentage = the percentage as selected in RB-Opt
number of frames=500.

Means at least 500 frames (or the entire cell if it should be smaller than 500 frames) will be included in the sample. This should be adequate for a reliable bitrate estimation.

This issue has been recently addressed by jdobbs:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1012292#post1012292
I have read the thread, and right now I was coding that.

[robot1]

Here is the new build:
RB-Opt v. 0.29 beta (http://www.savefile.com/files/801164)

Changelog:
Used dvd-rb defined matrices in Bitrate redistribution for HC and QuEnc.
Allowed different matrices and parameters in the segments to redistribuite.
Fixed a minimum sample length for cells to encode in bitrate redistribution (default 500, can be changed in the RB-Opt.ini)
Disabled Scene Change detection for HC encoder in bitrate redistribution, to have a better size estimate.
Handling of cells set to "no reencode", "blank" or "slideshow" in DVD-RB Segment Editor
In avs editing, if the script for the first cell or the last one is different, the different cell is ignored (example: only one cell interlaced - usually the last one). It's possible to edit the .avs for all the standard cells of the VobID


Next version will have redistribution among different VTS's

[~bT~]

Awesome job mate! Thanx a lot!

[Sharc]

Thanks! Useful improvements which I will definitely try out.

[archaeo]

Next version will have redistribution among different VTS's

Great :) I am very appreciative of the renewed energy that you have been applying toward RB-Opt development as of late - many thanks.