AVCHD / MPEG2 (SD_VIDEO) support in Panasonic SDHC BD players & Viera TV (multiAVCHD)

[deank]

in 0x43

4 means 1080i
3 means 25fps

First octet can be:

1 - 480i
3 - 480p
2 - 576i
7 - 576p
5 - 720p
4 - 1080i
6 - 1080p

so you combine FPS and resolution in one byte.

(and the next byte in the CPI file is $20 for 4:3 or $30 for 16:9).

[SeeMoreDigital]

0x43 means 25fps?Just to confirm....

My Panny TV can only play 25fps (PAL) sources. I've tried it with 23.976, 24, 29.970, 30, 59.94 and 60fps but they don't work :(

[deank]

As I said - don't expect BD functionality from an AVCHD player. I think what we've got is the maximum at the moment.

Another user reported that 1280x544 (25fps) plays fine with his Panasonic Viera TV but black bars fill the right and bottom part of the screen (to fill 1920/1080 missing pixels). TVs won't stretch not do anything about aspect ratio.

[espero]

As I said - don't expect BD functionality from an AVCHD player. I think what we've got is the maximum at the moment.

I understand, but I also know that this TV supports files from NTSC cameras so these fps should work...

But unfortunately this cheat doesnt work for fps :(

[SeeMoreDigital]

I doubt MPEG2 audio will work whatever tweaks you apply :)

Don't expect a TV set to has all the functionality of a Blu-ray player... It is just an AVCHD player - that's it. That's why Panasonic BD players play almost all SDHC content. It is not the same.I'm of the same opinion.... even though my TV's user manual mentions it: -

http://i42.tinypic.com/168xsv9.png


Cheers

[espero]

These three chapters sent by SMD works fine also on my TV... but they have oversaturated colors (in comparison with the movie seen on PC). Is there in cpi some option applied to colors or something like that?

I also find out that scene from my camera watched with original cpi, mpl is less saturated than this authored by multiAVCHD... strange...

[deank]

@SMD: Dropping MPEG-2 (PS) because it is not in AVCHD... And mpeg audio in AVCHD - may be with some early Panasonic camcoder models, but not now, really... If someone get's a sample - I'll take a look.

@espero: :) No, no such things there.

[deank]

A possible format for playing MPEG2 on your TVs (got it just now from Keysi_2):

...file structure for playing is different. It works with SD_VIDEO folder, PRG001 as a subfolder and MOV001.mod file plays on TV as mpeg2...

So I guess putting SD_VIDEO\PRG001\MOV001.MOD in your SD card will play it on your Panasonic TVs.

[espero]

A possible format for playing MPEG2 on your TVs (got it just now from Keysi_2):



So I guess putting SD_VIDEO\PRG001\MOV001.MOD in your SD card will play it on your Panasonic TVs.

It doesnt work :( I tried three files...

What kind of TV Keysi_2 has? please write something more about his tests...

[deank]

Yes... there are aux files needed - MOD file alone doesn't work...

Here is his complete sample. (http://rapidshare.com/files/227318381/SD_VIDEO.rar.html)

[espero]

Yes... there are aux files needed - MOD file alone doesn't work...

Here is his complete sample. (http://rapidshare.com/files/227318381/SD_VIDEO.rar.html)

yes, MOI, PRL and so on... :(

edit: the sample works!!! :)
edit2: i repaced mod file with some SD clip recorded from TV and it works :) I will test more...

[deank]

:) Good.

[espero]

OK it reads:

Video: MPEG2 Video 544x576 (4:3) 25.00fps 9000Kbps [Video]
Audio: MPEG Audio 48000Hz stereo 256Kbps [Audio]

audio - stops for a while and starts again
video - super


Video: MPEG2 Video 720x576 (4:3) 25.00fps 9382Kbps [Video]
Audio: Dolby AC3 48000Hz 6ch 448Kbps [Audio]
no audio - DD is not supported
video - super

Video: MPEG2 Video 720x576 (4:3) 25.00fps 8000Kbps [Video]
Audio: PCM 48000Hz stereo 1536Kbps [Audio]
no audio - PCM is not supported
video - super


Video: MPEG2 Video 720x576 (4:3) 25.00fps 9800Kbps [Video]
Audio: MPEG Audio 48000Hz stereo 224Kbps [Audio]
audio - super
video - super

I tried about 10 different files INCLUDING files with lower resolutions (SVCD) like 544x576 and it worked well.
MPEG1 - is not supported

End here goes the best part: NTSC clips are supported!

TV switches automatically to NTSC (when you enter NTSC clip screen goes black for one second and we are in NTSC). So it have to work also for AVCHD...

Video: MPEG2 Video 720x480 (4:3) 29.97fps 8210Kbps [Video]
Audio: MPEG Audio 48000Hz stereo 256Kbps [Audio]

Dean, is it possible to make such function in multiAVCHD to author many chapters in SD_VIDEO folder? menu is of course not important...

[deank]

Probably it will work in AVCHD if you can try with 1920x1080p @ 29.970 (not 23.976). There is a sample somewhere in the thread - Sample#8 (http://multiavchd.deanbg.com/SD_TEST8.exe).

Process the MTS file with multiAVCHD and Panasonic TV settings.

***

No, I have no idea about the structures and aux files of this SD_VIDEO format... And it is not AVCHD, what multiAVCHD is all about.

[espero]

Probably it will work in AVCHD if you can try with 1920x1080p @ 29.970 (not 23.976). There is a sample somewhere in the thread - Sample#8 (http://multiavchd.deanbg.com/SD_TEST8.exe).

Process the MTS file with multiAVCHD and Panasonic TV settings.

***

No, I have no idea about the structures and aux files of this SD_VIDEO format... And it is not AVCHD, what multiAVCHD is all about.

I understand but maybe you have such SD_VIDEO sample with more than one chapter?

I tried to author mts from SAMPLE#8 with settings on: "For Viera TV sets" and Force resolution "1080p" - it doesnt work :(
Maybe there is some switch inside mpl or cpi which have to be on?

[deank]

I understand but maybe you have such SD_VIDEO sample with more than one chapter?

No, I don't have, but KC_2 said he'll go for another round at camcoder shops and will record another sample :)

[davsim]

So Build 556:

* Panasonic BD players (using SDHC) should not get the 5-10 skip at playback start
I wanted to test this, so I tested the latest build 558 on my BD60 US v1.5 standard SD Card with some of my usual test clips.

Settings:
Panasonic SDHC output
Resolution Force Original (since I was using mixed res. sources)
Stricter AVCHD folder format checked
(Force 16:9 NOT checked)

compilation clips and results:

1. 1280x720P:
- problem with first second cut off seems to be fixed. the last builds I tested (552 and earlier) were missing 2 or 3 words of dialog. this one played from the start
- Proper aspect ratio displayed.

2. 720x480 29.97 16:9:
- first 9 seconds still do not play, playback starts from 10s after a delay
- aspect ratio incorrect (image stretched). This was working in the builds near 552-550.

3. 720x480 29.97 4:3:
- no playback delay, no cut off at start = good and working properly
- aspect ratio is correct

4. 720x480 29.97 16:9 (same results as clip #2):
- first 9 seconds still do not play
- aspect ratio incorrect (image stretched).


Did you remove the per title aspect ratio detection? Or does the "Resolution Force Original" setting change that? Is that setting only for Television SDHC playback?

What setting should I use to get the old build 552 functionality of proper 16:9 aspect ration detection and display in a compilation of mixed titles?


I looked at the output log to check the aspect ratio detection.

On clip #2 it showed:

Detected video: ID#1:V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC:853x480 29.970fps (AR:1.78)

That is not correct. AR 1.78 is correct, but the clip resolution is 720x480, confirmed by MediaInfo. However, this clip was re-encoded by MeGUI and the original clip was re-sized from 848x448.

On clip #4 it showed:

Detected video: ID#1:V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC:853x480 29.970fps (AR:1.78)

Again AR is correct, but resolution is incorrect. Actual resolution is 720x480 in MediaInfo. Original clip was re-encoded and re-sized from 480x480.

Clips #1 and #3 seem to have been detected accurately.

Again, both of the improperly detected clips #2 and #4 were detected correctly and displayed with a proper 16:9 aspect ratio in build 552-550.

[deank]

Resolution you see for these 720x clips is the "display" resolution, not the real one, which means that they are 4:3 but should be played as 16:9. (this is mkvinfo).

No I didn't remove anything.

For your compilations with BD player use "Original" in the drop-down list for forced resolutions.

***

Yes, for some reason something broke... I'll take a look now.

[deank]

Use multiUPDATE. It should be fixed now.

[espero]

No, I don't have, but KC_2 said he'll go for another round at camcoder shops and will record another sample :)

I made it! :) hex editor makes miracles :) now I can have over 40 mpeg2 on the card. As soon as I change two small things - I will upload this to rapidshare for all interested people...

dean: how do you think? are there any chances to make NTSC mkv's working on Panasonic TVs? as I told you before the sample didnt worked...

[Sanosuke]

@espero: I`d like to know which Panasonic TV you are using to make tests. For my side, nothing have worked at all. In BD, ok, but on the TV no. I followed your steps but nothing happens. I`ve already updated the version from MultiAVCHD, but I don`t know why is not working for me. Are you just using MultiAVCHD, don't you?

[deank]

You can post the changes for title count in the aux files for SD_VIDEO... I can create a small app just for TVs and mpeg2.

Don't know about NTSC.

[espero]

You can post the changes for title count in the aux files for SD_VIDEO... I can create a small app just for TVs and mpeg2.

Don't know about NTSC.

There is no such title count. I got a Prg001.pgi file with 83 (53hex) of chapters data. This file can be used for ANY mod's (movie files) the names must be:
Mov001.mod
Mov002.mod
...hex
Mov053.mod

Important are also moi files. These files contains specification of movie files like: date, hour, minute, second, duration, aspect ratio, length. Without changing these values everything works fine - but it looks ugly when we have several files - all with the same date, and all with the same duration (like 0:00:20). I will send you by email pdf with complete meaning of every byte in .moi files.
Unfortunately - there isnt such pdf for .pgi file but in your program you can use - always the same .pgi

Below is the file structure:

SD_VIDEO\
SD_VIDEO\MGR_INFO\

MGR_DATA
PRG_MGR

SD_VIDEO\PRG001\

MOV001.MOI
MOV001.MOD
PRG001.PGI


PRG001.PGI, MGR_DATA, PRG_MGR should be always the same (I will send you all of them)
MOV001.MOD - this is MPEG2 file, almost all works, audio should be in MPEG
MOV001.MOI - can be changed on every file - but this is not a must

[espero]

@espero: I`d like to know which Panasonic TV you are using to make tests. For my side, nothing have worked at all. In BD, ok, but on the TV no. I followed your steps but nothing happens. I`ve already updated the version from MultiAVCHD, but I don`t know why is not working for me. Are you just using MultiAVCHD, don't you?

As I remember you have Viera from the "8" serie with SDHC slot. I think all of them has the same SD module.

Download this file:
http://rapidshare.com/files/227625652/Sd_video.zip.html

1. unpack Sd_video (and all subfolders and files) to some folder on HDD
2. to the folder Prg001 copy any MPEG2 (SD!!!) (720x576 recommended) file with MPEG sound and rename it to Mov001.mod
3. copy Sd_video and all of its contents to the root folder of SDHC card

you are done - it have to work! if not, try with another MPEG2 file.

If you would like to have more files you should clone Mov001.moi in the same folder and rename it to Mov002.moi and then copy some other video and rename it to Mov002.mod

[Keysi_2]

I just test multiAVCHD with other frame rates than 25fps
file 1280x544p 25fps demuxing by tsMuxeR_1.9.9 to .264 & .aac file next create .mkv by mkvmerge GUI force to 25fps and Display width/height to 1280x 720 and finaly multiAVCHD and it play on TV in full screen size
the same with 1280x720p 23.97fps and it plays too
The only problem is synchro audio to video 4-6 sec delay

[espero]

I just test multiAVCHD with other frame rates than 25fps
file 1280x544p 25fps demuxing by tsMuxeR_1.9.9 to .264 & .aac file next create .mkv by mkvmerge GUI force to 25fps and Display width/height to 1280x 720 and finaly multiAVCHD and it play on TV in full screen size
the same with 1280x720p 23.97fps and it plays too
The only problem is synchro audio to video 4-6 sec delay

Yes it works also for me (I tried this method with my alaska.mkv movie). But this way we will never get synchronization between video and audio since the video is played by 25fps and audio is too short because is played 24fps. Therefore last 10 minutes of my mkv is without sound. We have to search for another solution... this TV has to read NTSC files...

[Sanosuke]

As I remember you have Viera from the "8" serie with SDHC slot. I think all of them has the same SD module.

Download this file:
http://rapidshare.com/files/227625652/Sd_video.zip.html

1. unpack Sd_video (and all subfolders and files) to some folder on HDD
2. to the folder Prg001 copy any MPEG2 (SD!!!) (720x576 recommended) file with MPEG sound and rename it to Mov001.mod
3. copy Sd_video and all of its contents to the root folder of SDHC card

you are done - it have to work! if not, try with another MPEG2 file.

If you would like to have more files you should clone Mov001.moi in the same folder and rename it to Mov002.moi and then copy some other video and rename it to Mov002.mod

Hi Espero

I`ve tried with your indications but, may the brazilian version of PZ80 series does not support MPEG2. Also, I`ve tried to play AVCHD files using multiAVCHD, but is not working also. Do you have an AVCHD camera? theoretically, by using the multiAVCHD, the file also plays in other device, like AVCHD cameras, correct?

tks for your help

[deank]

...this way we will never get synchronization between video and audio since the video is played by 25fps and audio is too short because is played 24fps.

I think you can use eac3to with some of these options to get what you need:

-slowdown convert 25.000 and 24.000 content to 23.976 fps
-speedup convert 23.976 and 24.000 content to 25.000 fps
-23.976/... define source fps to be "23.976", "24.000", "25.000", ..
-changeTo24.000 change source fps to "23.976", "24.000", "25.000", ...

[espero]

Hi Espero

I`ve tried with your indications but, may the brazilian version of PZ80 series does not support MPEG2. Also, I`ve tried to play AVCHD files using multiAVCHD, but is not working also. Do you have an AVCHD camera? theoretically, by using the multiAVCHD, the file also plays in other device, like AVCHD cameras, correct?

tks for your help

please look in the TV manual - mine looks the same as SeeMoreDigital paste here some posts earlier...

[espero]

I think you can use eac3to with some of these options to get what you need:

-slowdown convert 25.000 and 24.000 content to 23.976 fps
-speedup convert 23.976 and 24.000 content to 25.000 fps
-23.976/... define source fps to be "23.976", "24.000", "25.000", ..
-changeTo24.000 change source fps to "23.976", "24.000", "25.000", ...

My file (alaska.mkv) is:

Video: MPEG4 Video (H264) 1280x720 29.97fps [Video]
Audio: Dolby AC3 48000Hz stereo [Audio]

eac3to cannot change speed from 29.97 to 25. It says that there is not such option like: -29.97 (define source)

I return to the topic on NTSC videos on Panasonic TVs.
My friend told me that he watch movies from his NTSC Panasonic video camera on Viera TV. I think that there is a swich somwhere - in cpi, mpl or bdm to change mode to NTSC. Please take a look once again in documentation you have, maybe you will find something about this...
MultiAVCHD with some files warns that there are in NTSC and could not work on PS3 (or something like that). So is it possible to change the mode to NTSC?

[SeeMoreDigital]

I`ve tried with your indications but, may the brazilian version of PZ80 series does not support MPEG2. Also, I`ve tried to play AVCHD files using multiAVCHD, but is not working also.As far as I'm aware, the SD card slot on the PZ80 (world-wide) range of TV's only supports "photos"...

And for all those interested. Only the UK version of the PZ81 range of TV's is able to support MPEG-4 (and MPEG-2) playback via the SD card slot... This is because it has a built-in high-def compatible satellite decoder ;)

[espero]

As far as I'm aware, the SD card slot on the PZ80 (world-wide) range of TV's only supports "photos"...

And for all those interested. Only the UK version of the PZ81 range of TV's is able to support MPEG-4 (and MPEG-2) playback via the SD card slot... This is because it has a built-in high-def compatible satellite decoder ;)

My TV is 50PY800 - only with analogue tuner and it do supports MPEG2 and MPEG4 playback via SD card... but of course 800 series is little more advanced than 80.

[davsim]

My file (alaska.mkv) is:

Video: MPEG4 Video (H264) 1280x720 29.97fps [Video]
Audio: Dolby AC3 48000Hz stereo [Audio]

eac3to cannot change speed from 29.97 to 25. It says that there is not such option like: -29.97 (define source)
If you demuxed the audio, try -speedup (convert 23.976 to 25) and see if it syncs up. The audio duration should be the same whether 29.97 or 23.976.

[davsim]

Yes, for some reason something broke... I'll take a look now.

Use multiUPDATE. It should be fixed now.
Thanks. I tested the updated build 558 (v2) with the same 4 clips as before and the 720x480 both 16:9 and 4:3 aspect ratios are displayed correctly.

[espero]

If you demuxed the audio, try -speedup (convert 23.976 to 25) and see if it syncs up. The audio duration should be the same whether 29.97 or 23.976.

Thank you, I tried to speedup audio once again - no luck.

When I do not use any ac3 speedup sound ends 14 min before time.

When I used eac3to with option -speedup, sonund ends 12 min before time.

So I looks like sound should be speedup to 29.97 :( is it possible?

[davsim]

Thank you, I tried to speedup audio once again - no luck.
Sorry, I was thinking of film source with pulldown, but your 29.97 playback at 25fps isn't the same thing. There should be a way to do it, but I'm not sure what's the best tool for the job.

[deank]

Thanks. I tested the updated build 558 (v2) with the same 4 clips as before and the 720x480 both 16:9 and 4:3 aspect ratios are displayed correctly.

Do you still get this 9-10 seconds skip?

@espero: what about -changeTo25.000. Another option is to reencode the audio with mplayer/ffmpeg/avisynth. It will take just few minutes.

[deank]

So I looks like sound should be speedup to 29.97 :( is it possible?

I used this:

eac3to.exe 00000.MTS test.ac3 -changeTO25.000 -r8brain -384

and it converts it.. you can try with your source audio and see if it will be in sync.

the m2ts file I used is:

Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 3 frames
Duration : 43mn 16s
Bit rate : 3 313 Kbps
Nominal bit rate : 3 222 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16/9
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Resolution : 24 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Progressive

You can also take a look at this forum. (http://forum.videohelp.com/topic367485.html)

[Sanosuke]

As far as I'm aware, the SD card slot on the PZ80 (world-wide) range of TV's only supports "photos"...

And for all those interested. Only the UK version of the PZ81 range of TV's is able to support MPEG-4 (and MPEG-2) playback via the SD card slot... This is because it has a built-in high-def compatible satellite decoder ;)

Hi SMD

This TV in Brazil supports videos in AVCHD and SD Video. I´m thinking that my TV has some issue, because the user manual have the same information that have posted. So sad:(

[davsim]

Do you still get this 9-10 seconds skip?
Yes, only with 720x480 16:9 videos.

I do not see this problem with higher resolution (720P, 1080i, 1080P) nor with 720x480 4:3.

[deank]

Well, I guess we'll have to live with it :)

[espero]

I used this:

eac3to.exe 00000.MTS test.ac3 -changeTO25.000 -r8brain -384


Thank you, it worked but... the lector voice in movie is soooo looooow ;) Sorry for asking again, but maybe there is some switch inside bdm's to have NTSC material?

[deank]

:D May be you need to apply some pitch control and pitch it up ;)

No, there isn't such 'switch'. There are some samples around with 29.970 NTSC fps. Test them and if one works - send me a link so I can check. If your player plays the NTSC sample then it may very well be possible.

[davsim]

Well, I guess we'll have to live with it :)
Yes, it's easy to live with, since I know about the problem. Most of the time it will just be credits or logos. I can add a 9 or 10 second black video to the beginning, if I'm re-encoding.

I'm wondering if the delay is caused by a poorly executed function or an oversight in the Panasonic software. I was thinking the upconversion function might be choking on the 16:9 because maybe the Panasonic cameras don't record anything at that resolution/AR. Although HD video decoding would naturally be more processor intensive, it's already at the native display size and I expect Panasonic spent more time developing and testing HD playback.

Anyway, HD is working great and that's what really counts. 480i is just a bonus for the convenience of watching some standard def. videos on my player, since the Divx is disabled on the US BD60. I imagine Panasonic just flipped a bit in the firmware somewhere, in the hopes of selling more BD80 units.

[espero]

:D May be you need to apply some pitch control and pitch it up ;)

No, there isn't such 'switch'. There are some samples around with 29.970 NTSC fps. Test them and if one works - send me a link so I can check. If your player plays the NTSC sample then it may very well be possible.

I see. But you told me before that in cpi there is fps switch? When you author such movie, multiAVCHD sets this fps byte or not?
I tested all samples I found in this thread: sd_test_ds001 to sd_test_ds006. I authored every mts with option for Viera TV and force 1080i. Unfortunately all files doesnt work. I dont understand why SD files in NTSC works well without any problems, but AVCHD not...

Do you have maybe some sample from NTSC AVCHD video camera? maybe you found somwhere on the Internet? If we have such sample we could make a lot of tests... and then maybe we would understand why NTSC AVCHD files doesnt work...

About pitch control - do you know if eac3to has such option? or any other program?

[jason_peters010]

Deank,
Would you be able to help me with something that is puzzling me. 1 or 3 builds ago I successfully created an SDHC title that played fine on my DMP-BD35, HDC-SD1 Camcorder, and was recognized by Panasonic HD writer software. Now, with the current build, the output is only playable on my BD35. The SD1 say, "Cannot be used due to incompatible data" and HD Writer gives the message "The images my be damaged. Press 'refresh' button after inserting media on which images were properly recorded. Can anyone explain this to me? I'd like to play this on my camcorder and back it up using HD Writer. Would my log be helpful to you? Thanks!

[deank]

Update your multiAVCHD to 562 and try again.

There were some serious problems with playlists (if multiple scenes/mts files are present) but now it is all fixed.

I did a lot of tests (with 562) and even 720x480 (with forced 1080i) is recognized by and editable in HDwriter 2.5E:

http://multiavchd.deanbg.com/hdwriter25e.jpg

[jason_peters010]

Thanks, I'll try that!

[deank]

All changes for the last build are explained here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1280617#post1280617).

[espero]

dean:

I would to say that you are a great programmer, and thank you for all your work! :) BUT :) I would like to say that... one time you was wrong :)

After some experiments I find out that it is possible to play NTSC movies on Viera TV's WITHOUT any modification in video files :)

You said before that only in CPI there is some byte responsible for fps and you asked me to change this byte - there was no luck.
I found that also in mpl there is such byte:


In CPI in offset 0x0108 first part of byte is responsible for resolution and the second part of byte is responsible for fps.
The same is in mpl! at offset 0x82!

I changed this byte and... all of my NTSC movies worked! :)

So I have a big request to you to make in our Viera TV section of multiAVCHD new option "force FPS" :)